Thank you! I just wanted to help new readers with hwo to approach it, since it is so different than what one might expect going in. Thanks for your comment!
Arthurian mythos is definitely something an average person would think will be the most run-of-the-mill fantasy, with typical good guys and bad guys, chivalry, etc, but then it surprises you with how deep it can actually get. And you're absolutely right. Once you go deep, you practically become obsessed with it
Thank you so much for the comment! Yes, I think a lot of people feel that "King Arthur is played out," and I want to say , "You have NO IDEA what's in there!" But there is so much lame King Arthur stuff out there, I can see where the average person would dismiss it. I try to put a lot of the really weird stuff back in my books as I write them. Thanks for watching the video and for your comment.
Great and helpful advice, I’ve been working my way up to reading this book and think I’ll give it a try. Love the sound of your own adaptations of the legend too, will follow the project
Thanks! Yeah give Le Morte D'Arthur a go... you can read it in little bits, it kind of works that way. My adaptations are definitely easier to read and try to get you involved more, but it'll be at least 20 years before the series is finished!
Thank you for this video. Your comment on family relationships was a key point for me. I became obsessed with Malory taking an on-line text version and colour coding every single name in the text to its family allegiance. I came up with about 6 basic “septs/clans” with the Logris Realm as a 7th because I also stated to gamify the text to better understand the characters and created a Boardgame out of it, (so I probably biased it towards six-plus-one, but that is also Biblical). I am now reading through the pile of vulgate/post-vulgate texts that you held up at the beginning (so happy they are available in English now!). Having the full stories also adds to the appreciation of what Malory accomplished. I highly recommend Christina Hardyment’s “Malory: The Knight who became King Arthur’s Chronicler” for some context on the man himself.
Thanks for your reply! Glad you like the video and agree re: the family relationships... In my book series I make very clear that Margause is the daughter of Igraine and mother of Gawain, etc... it just makes it all much more interesting and you follow the psychological interplay. Glad you are liking the Vulgate/Post-Vulgate... when I started them is when my interest in it all exploded. It s very interesting to see how Malory re-arranged the stories or made them sequential rather than interlaced. You might be interested in my books because the project is to portray them as real people and explore what their psychology might be as they go through all this stuff and what they think and feel about it. Thanks for the recommendation of the Hardyment book, I'll check it out!
I always liked the inclusion of the Tristram story as it provides a nice point of comparison for Lancelot and his illicit love affair. Then you see the difference in characterization between Mark and Arthur too.
I'm sure it's wonderful and I will go back to it... Wagner can't be wrong! But the way Malory plunks it right there in the middle of the Arthur/Lancelot/Guinevere story made it frustrating for me, and I'm sure for many readers. Thanks for your comment!
This was fantastic! I’ve been reading the Arthurian legends for a while now and I’m in the middle of the Sangreal quest. I used to look up the words I didn’t understand, but then I stopped and just kept reading and I’ve gotten the hang of most of it. Thank you so much for this video! (I actually enjoyed much of Tristam’s story…but not all of it.😅)
Thanks so much! Are you reading Le Morte D'Arthur or another source? I'm realizing I need to go back and re-read the Tristram part while not in suspense to finish the Arthur/Guinevere/Lancelot storyline. Yes, best to just keep reading and worry about words, etc. later. Yay! Glad you enjoyed the video and thanks so much for your comment!
I have a beautiful copy of _Le Mort d'Arthur_ with woodcuts by Aubury Beardsley. I started reading it a about 2 years ago and slowly made my way to book 2, stopping after a few months. The spelling is updated, but I found the prose to be the hardest part. Things are described very dully. It almost reads like a summary of itself, which makes sense now that you've told me how condensed it is from the poems it's based on. It's not that I don't enjoy old romances; me and my dad have been reading _Orlando Furioso_ together, and that plodding, winding epic poem is fun (though obviously poetry and prose are very different). I'm hesitant to read any modern adaptations, because when _Ivanhoe_ made the Middle Ages popular again, Victorians heavily censored the stories to make them more inkeeping with the morals of the day (like how nowadays we'd tone down all the sexism). John Steinbeck, my dad's favorite author,'s last book is an unfinished rewrite of _Le Morte d'Arthur_, which was Steinbeck's all-time favorite book and the 1st one he ever read, called _The Acts of King Arthur and His Noble Knights_. I read the 1st bit of that book, to about the end of where I'd read in Malory's work. I should give _Camelot_'s soundtrack a listen, since I love musicals, but I don't know how closely it sticks to the mythos. Maybe I should take a look at the older poetic cycle _Le Mort d'Arthur_ is based on, but I'm not sure if I really want to read through 3000 pages of poetry by different people. I'll keep your tips in mind if or whenever I choose to try again.
It's true Le Morte D'Arthur is sparse, which is why I recommend to slow down and use your imagination to think what the characters must be thinking and feeling and what it all means... that's the key, because there are only hints in the text. The Victorian need to "fix" the stories is in part why in my series I have to remain faithful to the legend, to get around the wish to bend it to modern sensibilities. So in my series the sexism is there, but the characters think and talk about it and react to it as a reality of their world. If you want to try again I would try chapter 2 of Le Morte d"Arthur (the one about Balin and Balan) because it tells a self-contained story that is very spooky and mysterious... good luck! Thanks for the comment.
Great video mate. I started with Bulfinch's mythology, which had an even more abridged version of the story. As far as id known La Morte D'Arthur was the 'main' version of the myths. A separate question, would you say each of these tales have a moral to them?
😲😲😲 What I have always found as an interesting intersection of historically significant but unrelated events is that LMDA was published in 1485. Add 7 years and its 1492. Spain is going forward to a New World voyage. England was looking back to The Arthur Legend and the Dark Ages. Probably just coincidental. But still sort of intriguing none the less ?? 🧐🧐🧐
That is totally fascinating. From what I understand, Le Morte d'Arthur was a bit of a resurgence of interest in the Arthurian legends, as about 250 years passed between when the majority of the Arthurian material was written (early 1200s) and Malory's reworking of it in 1485. I am weak on my actual history, focusing more on legends and literature, but rather than "looking back" we could see it as finding a national pride in these noble early origin stories? I also think the Arthurian legends are a form of moral instruction for readers (and illiterate listeners during its development). Regardless, very interesting way to look at it and I appreciate your comment.
@@theswithenbookseries Agree. And that would be consistent with the overwhelming interest by England for the "discovery" and the subsequent English voyages there soon after word got out of a "New World". 👍👍👍
I think it should be noticed that this is not a single book. It was intended to be like seven separated but interconnected novels. I'd wish the author's original vision is restored some day.
Wait wait wait wait wait wait. . . I thought King Arthur was supposed to be a great and benevolent ruler. . . And you're telling me he committed infanticide??? Holy fuck
You know it, bro... Most of us actually don't know what all is in the real Arthurian legend, we only know the good parts. We only hear about the valor and honor, but a lot of it is about the terrible mistakes King Arthur makes and how they come back to haunt him down the line. In my book series I tell a more complete picture with the dark and less noble parts included.
@@assass7012 Well, I agree you should! PS I'm only at Book 6 and it's going to be 25 before the whole story is done. I just finished Book 6 and that might be a good place to start... it has the infanticide and the incest (!) that caused it... and it's Arthur's first years of rule, lots of battles and Excalibur. It's only ebook now but paperback will come soon. Thanks for the comments! Book 6: shorturl.at/aSvbY
By the way, I always prefered the oldest versions than Malory. For example: the one and true winner of the Grail SHOULD BE Percival. Galahad is a profoundly stupid character and I hate him. Also, "Le Morte D'Arthur" ommits almost all of Sir Gawain awesome adventures.
Thanks for the kind note! As for the story, it's those frustrating turns that are really interesting (like Merlin's fate... WHY did he fall for it?). But yes, Galahad is an insufferable prig. Malory left out a LOT, some of which clarifies the entire story... I'm going to add most of it back in my book series.
The Vulgate and Post-Vulgate are easier to read and have much more connecting material to make sense of the story, but they're much longer and don't include everything covered in Le Morte D'Arthur... it's not an easy either/or... I would start with Le Morte D'Arthur and get the overall scope, then if you're still interested, dig into the Vulgate. For me, I thought I would lose interest when dipping into the Vulgate after LMD, but this is when I got EVEN MORE OBSESSED.
This is a very good intro. It is sooo important to set proper expectations before reading a book.
Thank you! I just wanted to help new readers with hwo to approach it, since it is so different than what one might expect going in. Thanks for your comment!
Arthurian mythos is definitely something an average person would think will be the most run-of-the-mill fantasy, with typical good guys and bad guys, chivalry, etc, but then it surprises you with how deep it can actually get. And you're absolutely right. Once you go deep, you practically become obsessed with it
Thank you so much for the comment! Yes, I think a lot of people feel that "King Arthur is played out," and I want to say , "You have NO IDEA what's in there!" But there is so much lame King Arthur stuff out there, I can see where the average person would dismiss it. I try to put a lot of the really weird stuff back in my books as I write them. Thanks for watching the video and for your comment.
Thank you very much for this!
Great and helpful advice, I’ve been working my way up to reading this book and think I’ll give it a try. Love the sound of your own adaptations of the legend too, will follow the project
Thanks! Yeah give Le Morte D'Arthur a go... you can read it in little bits, it kind of works that way. My adaptations are definitely easier to read and try to get you involved more, but it'll be at least 20 years before the series is finished!
Thank you for this video. Your comment on family relationships was a key point for me. I became obsessed with Malory taking an on-line text version and colour coding every single name in the text to its family allegiance. I came up with about 6 basic “septs/clans” with the Logris Realm as a 7th because I also stated to gamify the text to better understand the characters and created a Boardgame out of it, (so I probably biased it towards six-plus-one, but that is also Biblical). I am now reading through the pile of vulgate/post-vulgate texts that you held up at the beginning (so happy they are available in English now!). Having the full stories also adds to the appreciation of what Malory accomplished. I highly recommend Christina Hardyment’s “Malory: The Knight who became King Arthur’s Chronicler” for some context on the man himself.
Thanks for your reply! Glad you like the video and agree re: the family relationships... In my book series I make very clear that Margause is the daughter of Igraine and mother of Gawain, etc... it just makes it all much more interesting and you follow the psychological interplay. Glad you are liking the Vulgate/Post-Vulgate... when I started them is when my interest in it all exploded. It s very interesting to see how Malory re-arranged the stories or made them sequential rather than interlaced. You might be interested in my books because the project is to portray them as real people and explore what their psychology might be as they go through all this stuff and what they think and feel about it. Thanks for the recommendation of the Hardyment book, I'll check it out!
I always liked the inclusion of the Tristram story as it provides a nice point of comparison for Lancelot and his illicit love affair. Then you see the difference in characterization between Mark and Arthur too.
I'm sure it's wonderful and I will go back to it... Wagner can't be wrong! But the way Malory plunks it right there in the middle of the Arthur/Lancelot/Guinevere story made it frustrating for me, and I'm sure for many readers. Thanks for your comment!
This was fantastic! I’ve been reading the Arthurian legends for a while now and I’m in the middle of the Sangreal quest. I used to look up the words I didn’t understand, but then I stopped and just kept reading and I’ve gotten the hang of most of it. Thank you so much for this video!
(I actually enjoyed much of Tristam’s story…but not all of it.😅)
Thanks so much! Are you reading Le Morte D'Arthur or another source? I'm realizing I need to go back and re-read the Tristram part while not in suspense to finish the Arthur/Guinevere/Lancelot storyline. Yes, best to just keep reading and worry about words, etc. later. Yay! Glad you enjoyed the video and thanks so much for your comment!
You’re welcome! I’m reading Le Morte D’Arthur, but it’s all in one (very) thick book. Not in separate books like you showed in the video.
I have a beautiful copy of _Le Mort d'Arthur_ with woodcuts by Aubury Beardsley. I started reading it a about 2 years ago and slowly made my way to book 2, stopping after a few months. The spelling is updated, but I found the prose to be the hardest part. Things are described very dully. It almost reads like a summary of itself, which makes sense now that you've told me how condensed it is from the poems it's based on. It's not that I don't enjoy old romances; me and my dad have been reading _Orlando Furioso_ together, and that plodding, winding epic poem is fun (though obviously poetry and prose are very different). I'm hesitant to read any modern adaptations, because when _Ivanhoe_ made the Middle Ages popular again, Victorians heavily censored the stories to make them more inkeeping with the morals of the day (like how nowadays we'd tone down all the sexism). John Steinbeck, my dad's favorite author,'s last book is an unfinished rewrite of _Le Morte d'Arthur_, which was Steinbeck's all-time favorite book and the 1st one he ever read, called _The Acts of King Arthur and His Noble Knights_. I read the 1st bit of that book, to about the end of where I'd read in Malory's work. I should give _Camelot_'s soundtrack a listen, since I love musicals, but I don't know how closely it sticks to the mythos. Maybe I should take a look at the older poetic cycle _Le Mort d'Arthur_ is based on, but I'm not sure if I really want to read through 3000 pages of poetry by different people. I'll keep your tips in mind if or whenever I choose to try again.
It's true Le Morte D'Arthur is sparse, which is why I recommend to slow down and use your imagination to think what the characters must be thinking and feeling and what it all means... that's the key, because there are only hints in the text. The Victorian need to "fix" the stories is in part why in my series I have to remain faithful to the legend, to get around the wish to bend it to modern sensibilities. So in my series the sexism is there, but the characters think and talk about it and react to it as a reality of their world. If you want to try again I would try chapter 2 of Le Morte d"Arthur (the one about Balin and Balan) because it tells a self-contained story that is very spooky and mysterious... good luck! Thanks for the comment.
Great video mate. I started with Bulfinch's mythology, which had an even more abridged version of the story. As far as id known La Morte D'Arthur was the 'main' version of the myths.
A separate question, would you say each of these tales have a moral to them?
😲😲😲 What I have always found as an interesting intersection of historically significant but unrelated events is that LMDA was published in 1485. Add 7 years and its 1492. Spain is going forward to a New World voyage. England was looking back to The Arthur Legend and the Dark Ages. Probably just coincidental. But still sort of intriguing none the less ?? 🧐🧐🧐
That is totally fascinating. From what I understand, Le Morte d'Arthur was a bit of a resurgence of interest in the Arthurian legends, as about 250 years passed between when the majority of the Arthurian material was written (early 1200s) and Malory's reworking of it in 1485. I am weak on my actual history, focusing more on legends and literature, but rather than "looking back" we could see it as finding a national pride in these noble early origin stories? I also think the Arthurian legends are a form of moral instruction for readers (and illiterate listeners during its development). Regardless, very interesting way to look at it and I appreciate your comment.
@@theswithenbookseries Agree. And that would be consistent with the overwhelming interest by England for the "discovery" and the subsequent English voyages there soon after word got out of a "New World". 👍👍👍
I think it should be noticed that this is not a single book. It was intended to be like seven separated but interconnected novels. I'd wish the author's original vision is restored some day.
Wait wait wait wait wait wait. . . I thought King Arthur was supposed to be a great and benevolent ruler. . . And you're telling me he committed infanticide??? Holy fuck
You know it, bro... Most of us actually don't know what all is in the real Arthurian legend, we only know the good parts. We only hear about the valor and honor, but a lot of it is about the terrible mistakes King Arthur makes and how they come back to haunt him down the line. In my book series I tell a more complete picture with the dark and less noble parts included.
@@theswithenbookseries well now I'm gonna have to read your books!
@@assass7012 Well, I agree you should! PS I'm only at Book 6 and it's going to be 25 before the whole story is done. I just finished Book 6 and that might be a good place to start... it has the infanticide and the incest (!) that caused it... and it's Arthur's first years of rule, lots of battles and Excalibur. It's only ebook now but paperback will come soon. Thanks for the comments! Book 6: shorturl.at/aSvbY
By the way, I always prefered the oldest versions than Malory. For example: the one and true winner of the Grail SHOULD BE Percival. Galahad is a profoundly stupid character and I hate him. Also, "Le Morte D'Arthur" ommits almost all of Sir Gawain awesome adventures.
Thanks for the kind note! As for the story, it's those frustrating turns that are really interesting (like Merlin's fate... WHY did he fall for it?). But yes, Galahad is an insufferable prig. Malory left out a LOT, some of which clarifies the entire story... I'm going to add most of it back in my book series.
naw I'd rather read it with Tristam included.
would you say the vulgate and post vulgate cycles are better to read than Le Morte D'Arthur?
The Vulgate and Post-Vulgate are easier to read and have much more connecting material to make sense of the story, but they're much longer and don't include everything covered in Le Morte D'Arthur... it's not an easy either/or... I would start with Le Morte D'Arthur and get the overall scope, then if you're still interested, dig into the Vulgate. For me, I thought I would lose interest when dipping into the Vulgate after LMD, but this is when I got EVEN MORE OBSESSED.