Why does the church go about conversion, surreptitiously ?? Did Christ do anything thus ? Why deceive the masses ? How many in the church heirarchy are SELF-REALISED ? Does a SELF-REALISED christian still experience duality and discrimination ? On whose behalf is the church converting the world and what is the agenda ??
The teaching “Love thy enemy” to me, appears to be a condescension of sorts..Enemy is an inevitable consequence of a faith that divides people into “ Believers “ & “ Non Believers “ Congratulations Esther ji for another wonderful video. Thanks indeed.. 🙏
😂😂 that could be analyzed in another perspective to.. until you love him he is your enemy after you love him he is no more your enemy. I liked the way you wanted to reason your thought though...
@@thecommonman6513 How illogical to treat everyone who does not love you as an enemy.! A fundamental flaw of your faith if you are serious. Why should we not be wary of such people? Why should people accept such twisted minds, who gave you any birthright to be loved and the bounden duty upon all others to love you?
"The world is one family" is illogical except for spiritually elevated renunciates. But Love your Enemy, etc. is pure hypocrisy coming from a dogmatic, conquistadorial religious creed.
Christian baptism, "Accepting Christ as your savior" is a illusory religious experience, propagated by a false religion. It bestows a empty spiritual experience (Emotional) and It is ceremonial only, devoid of truth.
With the 'sinner's mind' the gentleman was seeking salvation! If only if he knew that he is divine in his core and that all he needs to do is to wipe the cobwebs of ego and desires off it to reveal itself to himself!
As the Jewish Rabbis point out, Jesus in his lifetime directed his disciples to "not go in the way of the gentiles" and to not enter any city of the Samaritans. They were to go only to the " lost sheep of the house of Israel". He saw himself as sent only to preach to such "lost sheep ... Israel". He told a Canaanite woman who asked for help that "It is not right to take the children's bread and throw it to the dogs". It was only after his death that his disciples began to reluctantly induct Non Jews. It was Paul, a later convert,who was the greatest champion of the conversion of "all nations". Thus an exclusive faith which set out to reform the Jews whilst upholding the old laws, became a fanatic saviour - centered (and later conquest motivated) faith.
What I don't understand is,they talk about being a good person,not to tell lies,not to steal etc .these are only basic steps to go further.the final goal is self-realization.the basic moral instructions are taught in many cultures .infact they are taught even to atheist s.
Facebook message? He couldn't talk to you. Because, he has no courage to talk to you, people who do mistakes fear, let him go away sir, you have realized. Thanks to Dharaj madam🙏
Wonder what would happen if Hindu's take a chapter from the Abrahamic Religions and decide to start Converting them, either convert or die since we want to save you, Lord Vishnu has to save you from your miserable life, what would these religions do?
@anish b Yes its time to give some of the same medicine back to these disgusting Abrahamic religions, Buddhists and Hindu's become victims to these filthy religions for conversion, time to give them a bit of their conversion menus back to them.
I feel both are deeply hurt by christianity. It sounds strange because being a hindu, the upbringing and the faith in the religion is not contrived. It is in the everyday culture and dealing. May be the persons discussing in the video struggled to learn their (ex) religion like indian students byheart the books to succeed in the exams for a good job. I mean it does not grow in the mind and mingle in the consciousness. If looked in this angle, bible is no more than a book to study for a good career. It does not help one to step into spiritual experiences.
Yes. That will just multiply criticism of both religions. Just as Esther does her criticism Christians too will work hard to do more counter attacks. 85 percent Hindus and less than 3 percent Christians in the country now. Who will gain and who will lose only time will tell🙂
Hi Tim, regarding your personal experience with the friend in California, who left a Facebook msg after calling you every Thanksgiving for 30 years, I would say, Not surprising at all. Let me give you my differing p.o.v.: In Christianity, as in Islam and in Judaism, God is on one side, and Creation on the other; there is the Material world around you, with all its creatures and Mankind, and God on the outside, and religion enjoins you to chose only one, and only God. Hence, it puts you on a crossroads, a dichotomy: either you are with God, or you are with your people (“with Evil”). That’s the extreme separation between God and His Creation. The only philosophy ever in the world that said something different, is Sanatana Dharma, mistakenly called Hinduism by the rest of the world. In SD, God (or whatever it is that created us), created the Universe and all its Principles from Himself. This means that it is God Himself who has become the World; not only that, God exists within us; there is Divinity within us. When you love someone, whether wife, child, parent, brother, friend, or a man or animal on the road - you must love God within them, and not the physical person or creature before you. Your relation is with that Divine Self, which is the same within you as the other person: there is no separation, in Reality. Only when you are aware, and live with this awareness, would you have behaved differently than how your friend did. He behaved the way he did because in his mind, you are separate from God, and he chooses God. When you see this perspective, you can only feel pity for him, not anger or hurt.
I’m shocked at the whole idea that non believers are sent to hell???! And these people actually Believe that !! God how I understand god of it were to exist is far more loving and accepting than that !! Wow the Bible is seriously a forceful unkind message
We don’t know the details as to why, Tim was told to go. Why he didn’t join other church for the pastoral work since for another 11 years he was in the faith. What were the reasons for his divorce. These may sound personal questions but are pertinent to know the reasons which led him to turn his back on the faith. It’s also important to know whether he had talk with other ministers on the issue. Paul tells of Demas , one of his companions in missionary travels, left him for the love of the world. We know Judas one of Jesus,s disciple betrayed Him for monetary gain. Without reasons nothing happens. If he has boldness to deny his faith then he should also have boldness to tell publicly the reasons why he was told to go. Leaders are supposed to be role models, what was the shortcoming which led to his dismissal. If one reads the scriptures we find that even Peter , one of the most senior and honoured disciple of Christ was publicly rebuked by Paul for not following the right attitude. That didn’t discourage Peter. It’s after those 11 years , Tim had questions, objections and unbelief , what if they were persisting before and affected his work without him being aware of. In life self orientation is important, King Saul in the beginning was a very humble person but as soon he became a king his attitude underwent change. This led him to error which cost his kingship. Tim must reflect deeply within himself and turn to God in whom there is always hope. I want to tell him that his Lord is seeking him and will not give up until he is safe home, because He is the good shepherd. The lady tried to extract maximum poison from him in her sole agenda to demonise Christ and Christian faith. Often I observed her asking suggesting questions,as if to put words in his mouth but he seemed quite mature to avoid them. I am also astounded by her derogatory remarks on Christ and Christianity and the responses of countless people in the comment section who are like sitting in a roman arena asking for more. What is it that bashing of Christianity satisfies them so much. What is it that makes them so glad and who themselves know nothing of the faith they follow. Is it not playing with their sentiments and creating divisions to serve some hidden agenda.
Since you are outraged by the people in the comment box not conforming to your expected degree of reverence, you should perhaps look into the mirror for an answer. Earlier, we used to marvel at such grand statements, as "Love your enemies" "Bless those who curse you" "Do good to those who hate you". Grand, Dharmic, nay, super dharmic pronouncements. But the experience was always that the Church and Christians were contemptuous of and hostile to us Pagans, who never cursed you or hated you in the first place. With a deeper search, some of us discovered that Jesus himself cursed and castigated those opposed to him, as snakes and "a generation of vipers" , who were destined for hellfire. He who does not abide in me is thrown out like a withered branch. Such withered branches are gathered and cast into the fire and burnt. Or words to that effect. Not very magnanimous to those who did not accept him. Horribly ominous, when the Church could later use such words for burning heretics and "witches" on stakes.
The doctrine of Christianity has been built on the edifice of “hatred for the non- believer” Corinthians 6:14 says “ Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers, for what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness or what fellowship has light with darkness “ Heathens, Infidels , Pagans ... a whole gamut of eloquent expressions were ascribed to the Non believers..St Augustine says..” That all superstition of Pagans and heathens should be annihilated is what God wants, God commands, God proclaims” The perception of derogatory references to one’s faith is indeed hurtful..” Do unto others what you would like others to do unto you” If you expect your faith to be respected, learn to respect the faith of others too..
@@thrinethran2885 I have read your responses and it gives me a satisfaction that they contain sound reasoning. But you it seems are not able to comprehend the context.Bless those who curse you ,do good to those who hate you. These are excellent moral/ethical teaching that the Lord gave. Did He stand by these standards in His real life. If you read in the gospels, the crucifixion narration, you find Him praying to His father of not laying the sins on them for it was the outcome of ignorance. He submitted to all the authorities be it the Jewish or the Romans silently. Even the Roman authority was perplexed by His silence which was quite unusual . They humiliated Him, stripped Him, spit upon Him and beat Him mercilessly but we do not find Him cursing or abusing them or even threatening them. So He practiced what He preached even to the point of His death. You said Jesus cursing some and calling them generation of vipers. You call them His opposers. Who were they against whom Jesus spoke such strong words. They were the religious heads of Jews. Please do research on Pharisees and Sadducee , they filled a lot of oral traditions in the law of Moses and made Judaism into a list of Do,s and don’ts thereby completely taking God out of their faith. For honour, riches and authority, they played with the oracles of God and subjugated commoners by harsh laws. Even in the chapter from which you have quoted, you will find details of errors they propagated in Jewish faith which hurt the true spirituality. Such kind need to be questioned publicly with strongest of words. Jesus had the guts to oppose error , against the most mighty and that too publicly. He knew where there error was leading them and the people who followed them. Jesus said, hate the sin but not the sinner. Standing against a tyranny is courage and not weakness. Jesus said to His disciples, mark disciples and not the general public. He says those who don’t abide in me ,wither. It means that to lead a godly life His disciple should completely rely on Jesus. The disciple cannot lead a victorious life without the help of Jesus just like a branch cannot survive on its own if it is disconnected from the tree. Its the tree which gives the branch nutrients and not the other way round. If the branch is disconnected from the tree it cannot bear fruit, its fate would be of fuel to fire. So in order to be fruitful in spiritual life a Christian must have God abiding in Him. God abides in a believer through His HolySpirit. The Holy Spirit empowers a Christian to live the life Jesus lived on this earth. The role model Jesus.
As Atheist you are trying to pinpoint the flaws behind the good messages. The way you discussing on love, faith, Humanity etc.. I just paused the video in the middle to comment.. 1. Tim as a preacher for thirty years you received the call for Thanksgiving, and you appreciate it. But when you left she just sent you a Facebook message to bid good bye... And Esther's Face lite up with that joy for that good bye... Just to show-- See how much the Christians love each other how compassionate they are.. Now I ask you TIM aren't you the person who preached them for the 30 years.. they heard you preach and they accepted your preaching and when they appreciated you... You were just so happy. And when you turned from the faith.. it's kinda mistreatment to you... (Though you said you didn't mind it) if you didn't mind it you should have not to mention the story here... And that Esther's Sarcastic "wow" clearly reveals what you guys are talking about. And HUMANITY... What is meant to be a human?
A friend who was especially helpful to you becomes persona non grata to you merely because he left the church he had served in? How ever did he become your enemy? How more bigoted can you be. Where goes Love your enemy and Bless those that curse you (not that he remotely did either)?
![Saying Goodbye to Jesus [Think Biblically Podcast]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/y5W6X3nYhjk/mqdefault.jpg)
I have immense respect for people who left faith and start questioning things. It takes very high intellectual integrity, to do so.
Why does the church go about conversion, surreptitiously ??
Did Christ do anything thus ?
Why deceive the masses ?
How many in the church heirarchy are SELF-REALISED ?
Does a SELF-REALISED christian still experience duality and discrimination ?
On whose behalf is the church converting the world and what is the agenda ??
The teaching “Love thy enemy” to me, appears to be a condescension of sorts..Enemy is an inevitable consequence of a faith that divides people into “ Believers “ & “ Non Believers “
Congratulations Esther ji for another wonderful video. Thanks indeed.. 🙏
😂😂 that could be analyzed in another perspective to.. until you love him he is your enemy after you love him he is no more your enemy.
I liked the way you wanted to reason your thought though...
@@thecommonman6513 How illogical to treat everyone who does not love you as an enemy.! A fundamental flaw of your faith if you are serious. Why should we not be wary of such people? Why should people accept such twisted minds, who gave you any birthright to be loved and the bounden duty upon all others to love you?
"The world is one family" is illogical except for spiritually elevated renunciates. But Love your Enemy, etc. is pure hypocrisy coming from a dogmatic, conquistadorial religious creed.
@@thrinethran2885 wow. Excellent statement.
@@thrinethran2885 The very idea of compulsory love is simply ridiculous.
Christian baptism, "Accepting Christ as your savior" is a illusory religious experience, propagated by a false religion.
It bestows a empty spiritual experience (Emotional) and
It is ceremonial only, devoid of truth.
With the 'sinner's mind' the gentleman was seeking salvation! If only if he knew that he is divine in his core and that all he needs to do is to wipe the cobwebs of ego and desires off it to reveal itself to himself!
As the Jewish Rabbis point out, Jesus in his lifetime directed his disciples to "not go in the way of the gentiles" and to not enter any city of the Samaritans. They were to go only to the " lost sheep of the house of Israel". He saw himself as sent only to preach to such "lost sheep ... Israel". He told a Canaanite woman who asked for help that "It is not right to take the children's bread and throw it to the dogs". It was only after his death that his disciples began to reluctantly induct Non Jews. It was Paul, a later convert,who was the greatest champion of the conversion of "all nations". Thus an exclusive faith which set out to reform the Jews whilst upholding the old laws, became a fanatic saviour - centered (and later conquest motivated) faith.
What I don't understand is,they talk about being a good person,not to tell lies,not to steal etc .these are only basic steps to go further.the final goal is self-realization.the basic moral instructions are taught in many cultures .infact they are taught even to atheist s.
Facebook message? He couldn't talk to you. Because, he has no courage to talk to you, people who do mistakes fear, let him go away sir, you have realized. Thanks to Dharaj madam🙏
Wonder what would happen if Hindu's take a chapter from the Abrahamic Religions and decide to start Converting them, either convert or die since we want to save you, Lord Vishnu has to save you from your miserable life, what would these religions do?
@anish b Yes its time to give some of the same medicine back to these disgusting Abrahamic religions, Buddhists and Hindu's become victims to these filthy religions for conversion, time to give them a bit of their conversion menus back to them.
Kerela has seen most conversions..
ex-communication is an established practice in christianity.
The blessed hypocrite lol
I love that
Love the channel
I feel both are deeply hurt by christianity. It sounds strange because being a hindu, the upbringing and the faith in the religion is not contrived. It is in the everyday culture and dealing. May be the persons discussing in the video struggled to learn their (ex) religion like indian students byheart the books to succeed in the exams for a good job. I mean it does not grow in the mind and mingle in the consciousness. If looked in this angle, bible is no more than a book to study for a good career. It does not help one to step into spiritual experiences.
Esther please upload daily basis and more and more videos
Yes. That will just multiply criticism of both religions. Just as Esther does her criticism Christians too will work hard to do more counter attacks.
85 percent Hindus and less than 3 percent Christians in the country now. Who will gain and who will lose only time will tell🙂
@@sajucdaniel8872 there are more than 3 % Christians which you know pretty well ,your population is atleast 15 % of current India
Hi Tim, regarding your personal experience with the friend in California, who left a Facebook msg after calling you every Thanksgiving for 30 years, I would say, Not surprising at all. Let me give you my differing p.o.v.: In Christianity, as in Islam and in Judaism, God is on one side, and Creation on the other; there is the Material world around you, with all its creatures and Mankind, and God on the outside, and religion enjoins you to chose only one, and only God. Hence, it puts you on a crossroads, a dichotomy: either you are with God, or you are with your people (“with Evil”). That’s the extreme separation between God and His Creation. The only philosophy ever in the world that said something different, is Sanatana Dharma, mistakenly called Hinduism by the rest of the world. In SD, God (or whatever it is that created us), created the Universe and all its Principles from Himself. This means that it is God Himself who has become the World; not only that, God exists within us; there is Divinity within us. When you love someone, whether wife, child, parent, brother, friend, or a man or animal on the road - you must love God within them, and not the physical person or creature before you. Your relation is with that Divine Self, which is the same within you as the other person: there is no separation, in Reality. Only when you are aware, and live with this awareness, would you have behaved differently than how your friend did. He behaved the way he did because in his mind, you are separate from God, and he chooses God. When you see this perspective, you can only feel pity for him, not anger or hurt.
Thank You Sister
Esther cover Hypatia of Alexandria a scientist and pagan
Thanks madam for informing the frauds
Excellent talk by Tim! Great!
Sister Esther you have the potential to bring back the lost one to Santana Dharma.
I’m shocked at the whole idea that non believers are sent to hell???! And these people actually Believe that !! God how I understand god of it were to exist is far more loving and accepting than that !! Wow the Bible is seriously a forceful unkind message
Excellent video, thank you
👍👍👍👍👍
Proud of you
We don’t know the details as to why, Tim was told to go. Why he didn’t join other church for the pastoral work since for another 11 years he was in the faith. What were the reasons for his divorce.
These may sound personal questions but are pertinent to know the reasons which led him to turn his back on the faith. It’s also important to know whether he had talk with other ministers on the issue. Paul tells of Demas , one of his companions in missionary travels, left him for the love of the world. We know Judas one of Jesus,s disciple betrayed Him for monetary gain. Without reasons nothing happens. If he has boldness to deny his faith then he should also have boldness to tell publicly the reasons why he was told to go. Leaders are supposed to be role models, what was the shortcoming which led to his dismissal. If one reads the scriptures we find that even Peter , one of the most senior and honoured disciple of Christ was publicly rebuked by Paul for not following the right attitude. That didn’t discourage Peter. It’s after those 11 years , Tim had questions, objections and unbelief , what if they were persisting before and affected his work without him being aware of. In life self orientation is important, King Saul in the beginning was a very humble person but as soon he became a king his attitude underwent change. This led him to error which cost his kingship. Tim must reflect deeply within himself and turn to God in whom there is always hope. I want to tell him that his Lord is seeking him and will not give up until he is safe home, because He is the good shepherd.
The lady tried to extract maximum poison from him in her sole agenda to demonise Christ and Christian faith. Often I observed her asking suggesting questions,as if to put words in his mouth but he seemed quite mature to avoid them.
I am also astounded by her derogatory remarks on Christ and Christianity and the responses of countless people in the comment section who are like sitting in a roman arena asking for more. What is it that bashing of Christianity satisfies them so much. What is it that makes them so glad and who themselves know nothing of the faith they follow. Is it not playing with their sentiments and creating divisions to serve some hidden agenda.
Since you are outraged by the people in the comment box not conforming to your expected degree of reverence, you should perhaps look into the mirror for an answer.
Earlier, we used to marvel at such grand statements, as
"Love your enemies"
"Bless those who curse you"
"Do good to those who hate you". Grand, Dharmic, nay, super dharmic pronouncements.
But the experience was always that the Church and Christians were contemptuous of and hostile to us Pagans, who never cursed you or hated you in the first place.
With a deeper search, some of us discovered that Jesus himself cursed and castigated those opposed to him, as snakes and "a generation of vipers" , who were destined for hellfire. He who does not abide in me is thrown out like a withered branch. Such withered branches are gathered and cast into the fire and burnt. Or words to that effect. Not very magnanimous to those who did not accept him. Horribly ominous, when the Church could later use such words for burning heretics and "witches" on stakes.
The doctrine of Christianity has been built on the edifice of “hatred for the non- believer”
Corinthians 6:14 says “ Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers, for what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness or what fellowship has light with darkness “
Heathens, Infidels , Pagans ... a whole gamut of eloquent expressions were ascribed to the Non believers..St Augustine says..” That all superstition of Pagans and heathens should be annihilated is what God wants, God commands, God proclaims”
The perception of derogatory references to one’s faith is indeed hurtful..” Do unto others what you would like others to do unto you” If you expect your faith to be respected, learn to respect the faith of others too..
@@thrinethran2885 I have read your responses and it gives me a satisfaction that they contain sound reasoning. But you it seems are not able to comprehend the context.Bless those who curse you ,do good to those who hate you. These are excellent moral/ethical teaching that the Lord gave. Did He stand by these standards in His real life. If you read in the gospels, the crucifixion narration, you find Him praying to His father of not laying the sins on them for it was the outcome of ignorance. He submitted to all the authorities be it the Jewish or the Romans silently. Even the Roman authority was perplexed by His silence which was quite unusual . They humiliated Him, stripped Him, spit upon Him and beat Him mercilessly but we do not find Him cursing or abusing them or even threatening them. So He practiced what He preached even to the point of His death.
You said Jesus cursing some and calling them generation of vipers. You call them His opposers. Who were they against whom Jesus spoke such strong words. They were the religious heads of Jews. Please do research on Pharisees and Sadducee , they filled a lot of oral traditions in the law of Moses and made Judaism into a list of Do,s and don’ts thereby completely taking God out of their faith. For honour, riches and authority, they played with the oracles of God and subjugated commoners by harsh laws. Even in the chapter from which you have quoted, you will find details of errors they propagated in Jewish faith which hurt the true spirituality. Such kind need to be questioned publicly with strongest of words. Jesus had the guts to oppose error , against the most mighty and that too publicly. He knew where there error was leading them and the people who followed them. Jesus said, hate the sin but not the sinner. Standing against a tyranny is courage and not weakness.
Jesus said to His disciples, mark disciples and not the general public. He says those who don’t abide in me ,wither. It means that to lead a godly life His disciple should completely rely on Jesus. The disciple cannot lead a victorious life without the help of Jesus just like a branch cannot survive on its own if it is disconnected from the tree. Its the tree which gives the branch nutrients and not the other way round. If the branch is disconnected from the tree it cannot bear fruit, its fate would be of fuel to fire. So in order to be fruitful in spiritual life a Christian must have God abiding in Him. God abides in a believer through His HolySpirit. The Holy Spirit empowers a Christian to live the life Jesus lived on this earth. The role model Jesus.
As Atheist you are trying to pinpoint the flaws behind the good messages. The way you discussing on love, faith, Humanity etc..
I just paused the video in the middle to comment..
1. Tim as a preacher for thirty years you received the call for Thanksgiving, and you appreciate it. But when you left she just sent you a Facebook message to bid good bye... And Esther's Face lite up with that joy for that good bye... Just to show-- See how much the Christians love each other how compassionate they are..
Now I ask you TIM aren't you the person who preached them for the 30 years.. they heard you preach and they accepted your preaching and when they appreciated you... You were just so happy. And when you turned from the faith.. it's kinda mistreatment to you... (Though you said you didn't mind it) if you didn't mind it you should have not to mention the story here... And that Esther's Sarcastic "wow" clearly reveals what you guys are talking about.
And HUMANITY... What is meant to be a human?
A friend who was especially helpful to you becomes persona non grata to you merely because he left the church he had served in? How ever did he become your enemy? How more bigoted can you be. Where goes Love your enemy and Bless those that curse you (not that he remotely did either)?