What if Russia Joined NATO?
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- Опубліковано 22 бер 2022
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Hypotheticals are fun. Sometimes they're also bonkers. Imagine a world where Russia was accepted into NATO. What would it actually look like? Would we all have came together in peace? Well, things would have been a bit, zanier than you might expect.
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This is stupid. Enjoy
ok
Nothing is stupid, this alternative reality to the stupid reality we're living in.
Yes but what if Ohio joined the Confederate States
real life is not like Star trek
This is truly the best timeline
"What are they defending against?"
Isn't it OBVIOUS Cody?
Aliens, it's aliens.
Reagan and Gorbachev agreed to a mutual defense if Extraterrestrials ever invaded.
It is true?
I mean it doesn't seem unrealistic because i have heard that US army has plan in case of zombie outbreak.
@@desolatortrooper7196 The "Zombie Outbreak" Plan on most procedure listing is also one of those plans that are good for MOST break down of civil order situations.
No its against Kane and his Brotherhood of Nod for control of Tiberium
Which would make the Imperial Aquila very appropriate.
"Purge the Xenos!"
@@DetectiveLance make sens since anarchy will probably be a huge consequence of a zombie outbreak.
Maybe a higher threat than zombies themself.
Soviets: Can I join NATO?
NATO: Sure.
Soviets: *Wait, that actually worked?*
Yeah you just have to adopt certain military requirements, human rights and election standards... No wording saying Russia can't join too!
@@enubisgaming6829 I mean, Turkey is in NATO...
@@enubisgaming6829 human rights? Yeah right
@@enubisgaming6829 nato: you cannot kill your own civilians
russia: *SLAMS FIST ON DESK*
Sure that'd definitely be the case today... Since mostly modern Democrats have seized power everywhere today an are all 90 or more percent neo or outright Commies today anyways
NATO: We are NOT an anti-Russia pact
Russia: So may I join?
NATO: F*ck no!!!!
it's quite impressive he managed to put this together because asking "what if russia joined Nato" is sort of like asking "what if the British joined Napoleon"
The most amazing part of all of it is... they basically would have done the same thing Louis XVI did! In supporting a government which explicitly extended the franchise beyond property ownership, the UK would be fanning the flames that, in OTL, sputtered in 1848. If Napoleon's second reign goes unchallenged, (assuming he still invades Russia) then there's no reason to assume France doesn't attempt to restore its "sister republics." The Netherlands and Denmark must be fuming in all of this!
True
Or like "what if Robespierre joined the coalition"
@@alessandrosilvafilho8527 HAHAHAHA!
America and Russia “living together” in NATO would make a great sitcom plot
What gender should the characters be ? Or is it just axis powers Hetalia
@@darthjekyll3648 Not humans, but the animals of each nation, so the eagle would just steal the bear's honey or something.
@@thunderspark1536 That’s actually a really good addition.
I would watch it
@@thunderspark1536*Perfect*
USSR: "Hey fellas can I join?"
NATO: "No dictators."
USSR: "But you let Portugal join."
NATO: "I said no dictator(s), we're allowed to have 1."
Portugal: "Uh hyuk!"
*Turkey enters the chat*
Technically Spain was one too, and Greece during the Three Colonels
@@ArcturusOTE Small details, irrelevant.
Unironically, that's how politics work and lawyers get a paycheck
When Russia joins NATO and America gets kicked out:
“You can’t do this to me…
YOU KNOW HOW MUCH I SACRIFICED?!”
That would assume that Russia is not Russia. The wider point is with the USSR gone, why so many of it neighbors fear Russia? Why aren't Russia treated like the other break away republics and welcome into the European community? Historical and mass memories still play a very strong parts in geopolitical landscapes.
@@user-ts4yf3fe9u Yup
America, 5 years after getting kicked out of Soviet NATO:
"You know, I'm sort of a communist myself."
@@user-ts4yf3fe9u Ironically, it's not Russia but NATO that invades other countries and does regime changes. If NATO stayed out of Ukraine in 2014, we wouldn't have the war today.
"and don't just say China"
"ok, The people's republic of China"
I know it'd be immediately demonetised and the comments would descend into a complete hellscape but it'd be really cool to hear your take on what the world would look like now if Petoria had won the 2000 Rhode Island Conflict.
All heil Peter. May he grant us with an abundance of Pawtucket Patriot.
Hail Peter Griffin President of Greater Petertoria and soon perhaps all of New England. (Upstate NY)
Best. April Fool's Joke. Ever.
@@wotintarnation8388 Yes, or Cody should troll us and make one the day before or after.
I will pay money to have this.
This scenario is just turning off historical AI focuses in HOI4 but in/after the Cold War
Millennium Dawn mod ftw
Lmao
@@Chkprofilename STOP
also, finnaly it’s here
ua-cam.com/video/dQw4w9WgXcQ/v-deo.html
It's funny because it seems like usually in vanilla HOI4 Russia's worse nightmare happens with historical focuses turned off in that Nazi Germany goes democratic and basically everyone unites to fight Russia, including Russia itself
@@Chkprofilename Stop existing you bot
Another factor that kicked off the rivalry between the US and the USSR was that both sides irrationally feared each other, feared the other was out to get them (hindsight neither side was really looking for a fight and was willing to mutually cooperate if given the opportunity)
would be interesting to see what would have happened if relations hadn't collapsed after WWII
The only reason Russia and the West would get together is if there’s an extraterrestrial enemy so powerful that they have to put aside their differences
ALIENS
Then they stand no chance anyway
Nazi germany
OR hitler 2 rises to power is China and invades siberian russia
Transformers?
I like how most of the scenarios either remove a person from the timeline or change a small decision by a diplomat, sometimes turn the tide of a significant battle
This one is just
“Yuri the psychic used his powers to force the US and the Soviets to get along”
"The War is over! What I've come to realize is that the commies and us want the same thing...you know... female companionship...steak" - Mind-Controlled General Carville
Is that Yuri the psychic a Command & Conquer: Red Alert reference or just a coincidence?
@@Eleiber Hellyeah it is
Imagine Russia drunk on vodka and NATO clueless so they made the decision to join. Now we got a reason for this to work out.
@@RazorM97 the entire country overdid the booze
The funniest thing about the 1st scenario is that, despite all the chaos, the club wouldn't end since neither USA nor USSR would want to leave and allow the other to dominate it
I really think it would be a lot more plausible than Cody makes out the bear and the eagle decide that they can see stop fighting with each other they can eat all the fish
It'd be like two parents arguing over custody rights...
When something works because it shouldn’t lol
that’s extremely true, if the USSR did join nato both sides would very likely be forever bound in NATO because leaving would definitely not be a option for both sides lmao
And none of the smaller countries can leave because that would mean either of the NATO factions could steamroll them with impunity.
“No enemies would join a alliance together.” Here is a list of countries that joined a alliance despite being enemies
Greece and Turkey
UK and France
Austria-Hungary and Ottoman Empire
Greek states (pre-Roman) joining together every time a foreigner declares war on one
yeah 50 years after germany and france were at each others' throats murdering hundreds of thousands of each others' citizens, they became best of friends and created the EU
Notice how all of these are due to the pressures of a foreign threat. Similar to the unity of the American colonies due to the threat of a French invasion. The context of the quote is completely without foreign threat… there is literally no strategic reason for these two historical enemies to ally
Because they had common goals, the only commom goal of Russia/Soviet Union and the United States is being the most influential power in the world, and there can't be 2 number 1s
@@hugossg7908 Right on, it's simply a matter of conflicting and even contradicting priorities. That some tenuous neighbors, when enemies from outside threaten to subjugate them all, will band together _out of necessity,_ this is in no way to be treated equally with a situation where no such necessity exists.
Tom Clancy wrote a Jack Ryan novel where Russia joins NATO to defend against a Chinese invasion. It’s a good read, if a bit crazy how easy Clancy makes it.
As much as I dislike games with Tom Clancy's "signature", I have to admit that he was still Russophobic and anti-Soviet. Which, in general, is the norm for those who grew up and lived under this propaganda during the Cold War. The problem is that this case has gone to the second round.
@@TheAlien729 Anyone normal who enjoys having rights is anti-Soviet
@@JJAB91 you are literally a propaganda machine
@@bruh9659 Imagine stanning for a authoritarian shithole. The Soviets lost, cope.
The Bear and the Dragon, yes?
Tom Clancy actually covered this scenario in his book's timeline with 'The Bear and the Dragon'. It involved China, due to several factors, performing espionage and threatening to invade Russia. The US offers Russia's pro-western government emergency entry into NATO and they accept. It wasn't too realistic but it was an entertaining read nonetheless.
I’ve just bought the book on ebay, cheers mate!
The Bear and the Dragon is easily one of my favorite Clancy books, in part because the Russian characters I came to know and love in the previous books ended up being good guys
which is great.
Thick volume of a book. Owned it but never got around to reading it. Guess I’ll give it a ready
ua-cam.com/video/QH8Cqqxki5I/v-deo.html.
Glad someone mentioned it. I read that book in middle school and loved it. Again in college and loved it again. Not realistic... very optimistic 90s wishful thinking... but nice to imagine the dream of Abraham Lincoln and Alexander II coming true.
Zelensky: OK, you stop the war, we stop joining NATO.
Putin: OK, deal.
*the next day*
Putin: We're joining NATO
Zelensky: WTF?!
Lmao Reading that scenario literally made me laugh out loud
Lmao 😂😂😂
"if you can't beat them ,join them.
China: point nukes toward Russia and rebuild Great Wall for a combine Russian, Indian, European, Japanese and American & Australian invasion
@Seksbog34slqto not anymore
This really just becomes a “what if nato answered the Soviet’s text drunk with ‘yeah sure you can join’ and when they got sober they just didn’t back down from it” like it would have never happened because then it basically just self dissolves because the whole point for existence stopped
I love how after every video, I can say to myself, "Well, things could've been worse." Thanks for giving me a positive outlook in how our timeline is going.
I think a major issue with Russia trying to join NATO is that Russia would be required to completely replace all its old hardware to comply with NATO’s standardization agreements, and I’m not sure that they could even afford to do something like this at any point in their history after the end of WWII
Not necessarily, plenty of Eastern European nato members still have soviet equipment like MiGs for example
STANAG arsenal would already be a pretty effective deal breaker. Between equipment and structure, the Russia military would give up most of their distinguishing features.
They wouldn't have to because they can just have the US pay for it. Why contribute anything to an alliance when the US can write a blank check.
The major issue with Russia joining NATO is that NATO is literally the western "Anti Russia and China club".
NATO being an defensive alliance against russian expansionism is the whole entire fucking reason it exists. The whole premise of this video is beyond retarded.
@@BigKnecht I'm pretty sure cody himself made it clear there are many reasons why this is stupid and would simply not work and in order for this scenario to work you literally have to pretend whatever reason it is, it doesn't exist.
I remember reading somewhere, I think in the NS Archives, that Gorbachev was under the impression that NATO would evolve into more than just a military alliance, but more into something similar to the EU with more integrated economies. Curious that if Russia had joined NATO after the fall of the Soviet Union, if they would have pushed for NATO to move towards something more like the EU.
I've seen it mentioned in a video talking about how far the EU could expand, that Russia is technically able to join, but that it's in neither Russia's nor the EUs interest to do so.
Maybe if the Soviet collapse had been even worse, rebuilding from the ground up in the EU could have been in Russia's interests. But that's not what happened. Or at least Russia wasn't going to admit how far they had fallen to themselves.
Russia did try to join NATO. They were laughed off. Russia can't fight NATO and they've always known that.
Why didn't they want Russia to join before it dissolved and weakened itself? Almost like they don't want strong allies, but weak colonies.
@@tritium1998 Because joining NATO is a process that takes like 7 years. The Soviet War industry would have to rebuilt from the ground up to produce NATO ammunition and weapons.
I think a more interesting hypothetical would be "What if Russia joined the EU?" He's basically talking about the same stuff. But NATO is a military alliance, while the EU is a political and financial one. I wonder if Cody would think about the differences between these 2 ideas.
Russia wouldn't cede sovereignty to Germany and France so it would be like Brexit the moment they demand reforms.
"Can we join NATO?"
"Sure thing friend!"
*A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one*
I am totally going to write a fantasy world where the main-conflict is driven by a mutual defense pact dominated by two opposing factions
Fantasy?
Finally it's here
ua-cam.com/video/0_S0TN5-15w/v-deo.html
Funnily enough before the end of the cold war, the idea of it just ending never really occurred to most speculative fiction writers. It's why the USSR exists in most golden age sci fi novels. The CoDominium world by Jerry Pournelle is perhaps most famous of the "the US and USSR do a power sharing agreement" worlds.
Greece-Turkey relationship in a nutshell:
Command and Conquer
GDI (Global Defense Initiative) = An Alliance between the West and Russia,
Nod = A religious Superpower that controls much of Asia, large parts of Latin America and the Near East, lead by their immortal leader Kane
Both sides want to control a resource and Terraforming agent called Tiberium
"And don't just say China."
I laughed way too hard at that!
China is like artificial intelligence, not gonna be that strong yet but could get stronger.
China's economy is gonna collapse in about 20 years due to it's unsustainable demographics so the West really has nothing to worry about long term
2042… Battlefield anyone? 20 years?
Удивительно. Что при Путине,Россия так же подавала заявку в НАТО. Типо:"Ладно,создадим однополярный,но спокойный мир". И нам всегда отказывали. И ладно,если альянс существовал во время холодной войны. Но после распада,после 2000,зачем он был нужен?
Потому что они хотят нас развалить и т.д.. Так как мы их главный после КНР соперник.
Можно предположить, что для «защиты» от Китая, но расширение на Прибалтику в 2004 году этому немного противоречит
Просто хотели полного развала страны
Потому что Россия и США по-прежнему оставались заклятыми врагами, несмотря на любую вежливую политическую чушь, которая могла сорваться с уст политиков.
Да, это так. Действительно, как же заебала США, Британия и Европа. Все беды от них. Видимо они не простили, что СССР активно помогал в деколонизации бедным странам, из которых сосали все что можно. После распада совка они радовались, что сверхдержаву смогли победить, что РФ теперь будет сырьевой колонией запада. Так оно и было до 2008 года, все началось с Мюнхенской речи Путина, когда прямо сказал что больше не хочет однополярного мира...
Witty and fun to watch episode.
It's been a long time since you put out regular content. Your the king of the cartoon memes thats for sure.
Hmm, mentioning the Turkish invasion of Cyprus does bring up an interesting what if scenario. In the real timeline Greece did fight a bit during the invasion with several Greek units stationed in the island. But not officially. So what if the Cyprus invasion escalated to a full blown Greko-Turkish war ?? The consequences could be extreme given the date and that both are Nato members.
Finally it's here
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Greece would lose or USA would force them to make peace.
@@whyops9862 most likely, however the two nations where more closely matched at that point than now, plus the overall geopolitics would drastically shift with US involvement. Potentially leading to Greece leaving NATO.
Turkey deserves to be kicked off the island, we should’ve intervened after the USSR fell
ua-cam.com/video/QH8Cqqxki5I/v-deo.html.
Enjoyed the video, that nord VPN deal was too sweet to pass up. Went and bought my plan, thankfully there were still a few hours left. Thanks Cody!
I can never get past how much Putin looks like my uncle.
Then you're lucky he did not hire him as his doppelganger
Putin IS your uncle
pov: next ww3 leader of russia
OUR UNCLE
Is your last name putin?
Russia: two-headed eagle
America: one-headed eagle
Russo-American Alliance: three-headed eagle
It's just math, guys.
My first thought is that it reminds me of cerberus; on a second thought that might actually be very accurate
So the Russo-American Alliance would be Ghidorah.
@@subduedreader5627 Ghidorah but Eagle
Russia: Let us join!
NATO: 99% chance we reject you
Russia: So you’re telling me there’s a chance!
Aka the Lloyd Christmas geopolitical strategy
russia rolls a 20!
@@SirDeadPuppy One more country decided to neither reject nor accept.
No.
Russia: Let us join!
NATO: Ok, enable just elections, stop your genocide, denounce your past genocides, reject your plans of conquering your neighbors, enable free speech and sure you are absolutely free to join us.
Russia: [a u t i s t i c screams] nAtO ith evil! Zey dan't lat us jain zem! Zey are bad! bad! bad! look zey dan't want to lat us join! Zey are afraid af us!
This is how it was.
@@asbest2092 turkey and portugal: hello uwu
I love how he manages to hand wave everything in this vid while just giving up on the Manifest Destiny episode.
USSR asking to join a military alliance against USSR is the pinnacle of trolling.
Like
- Yo, guys, watcha doin?
- Threatening you with nukes.
- Cool! Can I join?
Cody: A two headed eagle.
Me: Oh, like the Imperial Aquila from 40k?
Cody: *shows the Imperial Aquila from 40k*
Me: Oh no.
dd,dlslsoslsls is a good example of the time you go to the club
Oh yeahhhh..... bring on the battle sisters and gaurdsmen.
Can you imagine the enormous clusterfuck of having Russia's arsenal change to NATO standards?
If its the 90's timeline, im pretty sure the standards would go away.........not even the railroad tracks are the same. Something that is hurting Ukraine rn.
those standards would be nonexistant
OR NATO accomodating Russian standarts. Which would be worse.
Thank you very much, I couldn't sleep at night until I listened to this
"A house divided, where the family is constantly fighting and trying to upstage one another, many regretting why they ever moved in or where even born."
I feel personally attacked.
Is it worth considering that in the US-Russia team-up scenario that, given the greater hostility shown by china, there would be less economic dependence built up?
well i mean corporations moved to china for cheap labor rather then any necessity and with china being more aggressive and belligerent towards the west they would likely look elsewhere. You would probably see more investment in Vietnam Indonesia and India. so basically what's happening now but 25 years earlier which would make china far weaker.
So basically Command and Conquer but instead of Nod its China which is funnily enough part of Nod in the Lore.
Russia and eastern europe would have been a better place to offshore manufacturing than the PRoC if they joined NATO or an equivalent alliance. It would strengthen the relationship and smooth over most hard feelings from 'losing' the cold war. This leaves the CCP a paranoid wreck with a massive population, but they simply don't have the influence that Cody assumes they'd still gain somehow. The cost of manufacturing in 90's Russia and 00's PRoC were comparable and building a connection with a new major ally would have taken precedent over selling out to the only great power left that wants to destroy America.
Doubt it considering Soviet Russia is very is a big reason modern China exists
If Russia joined NATO in the 90s it would be before China controlled the world's production. As you said, with greater hostility shown by and towards China, there would be less willingness to invest. China wouldn't be anywhere near as dominant because of this.
It always makes my day when Cody uploads, I was having a bad one until now.
Same, I always look forward to his videos.
Finally it's here.
ua-cam.com/video/0_S0TN5-15w/v-deo.html
Dont build a parasocial relationship
ua-cam.com/video/QH8Cqqxki5I/v-deo.html.
Love these videos!
I love these videos! Here’s an idea for another: “What if Harold Godwinson defeated William the Conqueror in 1066?”.
"Russia is part of the European culture, and I cannot imagine my own country in isolation from Europe and what we often call the civilised world. So it's hard for me to visualise NATO as an enemy."
- Vladimir Putin, 2000
Russia is not civilized
@@pesticide1596 Oh no. You sure did destory him. I'm sure his feelings are very hurt right now. He's probably crying.
@@pesticide1596 Mad
@@pesticide1596 That's what the Founding Fathers themselves said, they didn't want a democracy.
@@pesticide1596 pathetic troll
"To Defeat the Enemy, Join the Enemy and because you're so incompetent they will Lose"
-Sun Tzu (Probably)
Plan failed successfully
"Agreed"
-Moon Tsu
The Italy tactic
@@deiansalazar140 Lol trueee
@@Karlach_ If you try to fail, and you succeed, which have you?
Video Idea: What if Napoleon wasn’t stopped at Waterloo? What if Napoleon won Waterloo? What would he have done when he won? Napoleon is my favorite historical character so I just really need to know. Thank you!
Maybe the early NATO-Russia alliance could’ve both worked together to get to space faster and farther. A “For all Mankind” kind of thing.
I think a more "realistic" alternative would be: "What if Russia joined the EU?"
But this would need Russia to be a democracy.
@@Simon_lauer aren't Spain a constitutional Monarchy ?
@@elyisusking3603 no
@@elyisusking3603 Its a Monarchy with a presidential system
@@elyisusking3603 in the sense that journalists and protesters can do their thing without disseapearing in jail and where the media can show things that compromise the government.
In the timeline where nato is taken over by the soviets, the franco-british would probably keep more of their imperial influence since the USA would be isolationist and the USSR wouldn't want to risk losing their 2 biggest allies
also, I imagine the whole world would be set back quite a lot, since with the US (the only major power during WW2 that was left unscathed) being isolationist, there would be no funding to rebuild Europe - or perhaps the US would become even more of a global power, since they wouldn't be spending funds on rebuilding everyone else
I can imagine the US becoming more Asia focused in the alternate timeline and rearm Japan and empower South Korea/support the nationalists in China.
ua-cam.com/video/QH8Cqqxki5I/v-deo.html.
There's an interesting alt history scenario currently WIP called "The Red Order", which is kinda about this: Britain and France don't join the US after WW2, and instead decide to hold on to their colonies. As a result, UN fails as a global organization, instead becoming a purely US-aligned block, while Britain and France form their own "Entente Commonwealth Organization" + there's the Soviet Weimar Pact. In other words, the Cold War is now 3-way.
There're also other differences, though: Stalin never comes to power, with Bukharin-lead Right Opposition winning the 1920s Soviet power struggle instead, resulting USSR and its puppets having a more market-style economy; Japan doesn't surrender in WW2, causing a full-scale US land invasion; Korea is a united neutral nation, while China is split into North and South (also, Mao dies early); Finland, Denmark, and Northern Norway are under the Soviet influence; Austria is split, with its western part annexed into West Germany; Greece and Iran are also split; and so on...
The Suez crisis would have gone differently if the US was more disconnected from the world. That's when it started being more clear that the US was going to insist on being the leading member of the western alliance, as opposed to being the muscle directed by the UK and France.
To my knowledge, Russia tried seriously joining NATO at least thrice. It's therefore nowhere near as crazy as it may sound.
First time in 1954, Khrushchev tabled an extremely serious offer to NATO: if the USSR joins, we can finally unite the entire northern hemisphere into one military hyperpower. This was rejected by the UK and US.
Second time in 1991, the newly arising Russian Federation once again tabled the idea of joining NATO. They were summarily told to take a walk.
**Throughout the Gorbachev and Yeltsin years, Russia made constant and consistent efforts to align with its Western counterparts. See NACC in 1991, PfP in 1994.
Third time in 2000, Vladimir Putin extended the question of a NATO invitation to the US and to Bruxelles HQ. Putin himself at the time said it was difficult for him to visualize NATO as a competing, possibly antagonistic military alliance in light of the progress made from 1991 until 2000. A deeper alliance was a primary pursuit for Russia. I don't remember the subsequent details, but the response was a cold shoulder.
NATO instead decided to focus on small, inconsequential Central and East European nations. Nations which are, even today after so much NATO effort, nowhere near capable of effectively defending their own borders.
NATO could have had supremacy over the western hemisphere. Instead, NATO chose to propagate cold war era McCarthyism and intentionally sideline one of its most strategic potential member states.
Today, as a result, we have politically engineered fratricide in Ukraine. We have an America who can't protect the world. We have a Russia who is done trying to play friends, a Germany who is militarizing too late, and an India who is no longer confident in the West. We see European states who are no longer uniformly confident in Western security guarantees. And we see the worst case scenario anticipated by NATO decades ago: an aspiring and motivated China entering in a closer alliance with an alienated and eastern-facing Russia to create NATO's biggest geopolitical dumpster fire
Either way, one hell of a good going we got going on right now.
We did have the Nato-Russia council that was made in May 2002 so each side could cooperate military wise. It was suspended though when crimea happen when Crimea was annexed. Though the Nato-Russia council is meeting again on Jan 12 in Brussels.
Dang, America getting kicked out of NATO is like an owner of a company getting voted out by his board of directors…
Like Steve Jobs
DO YOU KNOW HOW MUCH I SACRIFICED?
Owner can't get kicked out, CEO can.
I love how NATO looks so tired in the thumbnail. Also interesting idea.
Finally it's here.
ua-cam.com/video/0_S0TN5-15w/v-deo.html
I thing almost all the big enteres have does eyes, I remember the Roman empire also having tire eyes
@@trla6505 true
Russia joining NATO or any sort of collective security agreement with the west would require that they would have felt threatened by China...which is not a historical impossibility. After all, after the Sino-Soviet split, Soviet-Chinese relations soured considerably and Russia took a fair bit of land from China in the past. One can imagine China going down a different path post-Mao, becoming more dogmaticaly communist and belligerent. If the Soviets fell like they did in our timeline, Russia could have faced a very hostile, Juche North Korea-tier China in the East.
Since the Russians and the west (or rather americans via Taiwan and Japan) have now a common enemy, a security agreement could perhaps been worked out to free both sides resources to contain China. Europeans wouldn't have much stakes in Asia, but would probably welcome the idea of cold war divisions dissipating. In this timeline China doesn't become the "factory of the world", it becomes the mother of all rogue states, constantly using whatever means it has to undermine the new Eurasian-Atlantic alliance against them, thus perpetuating a cycle of unrest and proxy wars which continues to justify the existence of this new West-Russia alliance.
Sino Soviet split was nothing but a ruse and the Chinese benefited from it immensely. They've always been long term allies with the goal to expand their sphere of influence westward.
KGB defector Golitsyn explained it in much more detail in his book new Lies for Old.
Thus leading to the WORLD OF FALLOUT
It's coming. China smells blood in the water.
@Kiznuat This would be Best for MY COUNTRY INDIA
You had me dieing when the "and don't just say china" clip came on
"more like an iron patchwork"
YOU WHAT
Lmao this editing is spot on.
NATO: we are formed to fight Russia/the soviets
Ussr: can I joined?
NATO: what? NO!
Finally it's here
ua-cam.com/video/0_S0TN5-15w/v-deo.html
Thing is, NATO didn't officially state it was an anti-Soviet/anti-communist alliance. Since most of its members were liberal democracies, they couldn't openly say they existed to fight a popular ideology, whose parties regularly ran in elections (the Italian Communist Party was the main opposition party and second biggest party in the country, for example). CENTO and SEATO on the other hand, being made up mostly of dictatorships, didn't need to hide. The Soviet request to join NATO was a way to make it come out as openly anti-Soviet and have a pretext to form its own alliance.
7:53 I mean this did happen to some extent. The British and French were upset with US interference in their colonial and imperial affairs, ironically being unsupportive of their allies, and so sought to detach themselves from US foreign policy. I remember Enoch Powell being supportive of an alliance with the Soviet Union and implored Thatcher to do the same.
Ho boy, that'd be a bad idea.
Like real awful
This basically did happen in Egypt during the Suez crisis. France and the UK were humiliated because they didn’t have the power anymore to act on their own
@@slovakiaballif24 Well, the American response to the Suez crisis was an attempt to prevent the Levant Arab countries from being driven into the arms of the Soviets by the British alliance with Israel.
It did not result in a British-Soviet alliance, and I don't think there was ever any serious possibility of that.
Whether for the reason Eisenhower predicted (reaction to the formation of a British-Israeli-American alliance) or not, most of the Arab republics became allies of the Soviets within the next few decades, with the British-American alliance only ruffled a bit but still intact.
2:36
“ 1953, Stalin is *DEAD* “
"Not a big souprice."
2:28 - BaZZed 😅😅
Although the west didn't actually care if the members of NATO were democratic or not. It only mattered that they were anticommunist. That's why countries like Greece under Papadopoulos was part of NATO.
2:36 “It’s 1953 and Stalin is dead.” The way he said that so casually just was unexpectedly funny for me.
@today was a good day Why do you keep spamming that?
@@BuxtonsWater Please go through comments and report him for spam, the more reports the quicker they get a deserved ban.
I'm at 6:30 and what your describing sounds curiously like the HRE
Russia: joins NATO
NATO: error 404
10:13 - I don't think Russia really opposed the US at the time that Putin requested to join (early 2000s). In fact, there was something to ally over, and that's over fighting terrorists in the Middle East. So I think it's possible, provided NATO as a whole is focused enough either on terrorists in the Middle East or on China to ignore Eastern Europe's animosity towards Russia.
The US wouldn't be kicked out of Europe, but Russia would insist of having military bases in Europe just like the US. Think them requesting access to the ports of Istanbul, and several others, including Crimea and perhaps Gibraltar and Crete, as well as land bases in places like Gaziantep.
Now, the crisis in Ukraine back in 2014, happened because up until then, Russia had been leasing the port facilities of Crimea from Ukraine, and was worried that the Ukraine might not renew the lease (due to expire in 2017 back then). This would have been a pretty big blow to Russia, as Crimea was the only viable base for the Russian Black Sea fleet.
So we can see Russia securing indefinite access rights to the Crimean port facilities in exchange for not invading, as well as similar arrangements in Turkey. Likely not as much in Eastern Europe (with the obvious exception of Crimea), due to the focus of geopolitics being on the Middle East and China rather than in Europe in this scenario. Georgia will likely still happen as in OTL, as Russia had recognized the Abkhazian and South Ossetian separatists back in the '90s, so if Georgia moves against these separatists, Russia will move against Georgia.
Generally in that scenario, NATO would become an anti-terrorist/anti-China alliance, focusing its energy outward and dealing with any Russian shenanigans the same way they dealt with Turkey's in Northern Cyprus.
Russia never requested to join NATO, fyi. He asked NATO representatives why they (as in NATO itself) never offered for Russia to join them; and he got a response essentially informing him that NATO didn't invite nations -nations applied for it. And Putin got huffy as he claimed that Russia would not stand in line with other "insignificant nations" (his words).
Also it would be a cold day in hell that Eastern Europeans, so close to the days when Russian troops occupied them, would allow such troops in their borders. The US didn't even have such a thing in the region until 2014.
@@stephenjenkins7971 do you believe what you just wrote in first paragraph? Or have sources to confirm what you just typed about "insignificant nations"?
@@kormannn1 Search for "Ex-Nato head says Putin wanted to join alliance early on in his rule"
Sorry, he said "Well, we’re not standing in line with a lot of countries that don’t matter"
Better?
Here's the thing with anyone joining NATO. Even with the US being the biggest piece of the alliance, it's not actually a clubhouse they have sole control over - all other existing members have to agree to the admittance of any prospective new ones. And as it happens Poland, the Czech Republic and Hungary already joined in 1999, so if Russia made a formal request to join (which it didn't) even in the literal year 2000 that would be met with a hard "NOPE" from at least the first two of them, especially if it meant Russian troops back on their soil so soon after they celebrated those same troops having left (as Soviet troops technically, but it's not much of a distinction over here). As they were already members you can't just have this "ignored", making the whole scenario entirely unrealistic.
Hey, someone gets it.
What if Russia joined the EU is a more interesting question. Russia joining an anti-Russia alliance makes absolutely no sense.
Russia never wanted to join, they just wanted to prove to the world that NATO isn't just defensive but anti-russia which is basically offensive
@@salahabdalla368 why would they want to join an alliance that is created to destroy them?
NATO only exists to keep the Americans in, Russians out and Germans down.
That has been the only purpose of nato.
@@semiramisubw4864 it wasn’t created to destroy them, but to defend against incase of an communist invasion. If Nato truly would want to destroy russia, the 90s would be the time as russia was in deep shit back then. And well now again.
The EU opposes literally everything the 'russian democracy' stands for. Canada or Turkey would have a higher chance at joining the EU before the russia.
Bro those sly small jokes and puns are the best.
0:57
holy *fuck* they're getting compressed into a singularity
*A NATO with Russia would be more scrambled than the Holy Roman Empire.*
I read that as “Holy Russian Empire” and nearly had a heart attack
@@doughboyproductions4391 The clock.... It's Ticking. The Regent has joined the OFN...
I would like a "What if the League of Three Emperors" (The pact between Imperial Germany, Imperial Russia, and Austria-Hungary to defend each other before WW1) "Stuck together"
you mean "what if the hungarian part of the Austria-Hungary parliament didn't stall for a month before agreeing to do something about their heir to the throne being assassinated"?
Then France would be fucked as both Russia and Germany both had about 12,000,000 troops that served in total and Austria was like 7,800,000
Probably be a lot like what if germany won ww1 mixed with a bit of what if Russia didn't fall to communism
@@ThanesTito The Hungarians can't help it, they're just slow
This went from 7 hours ago to, 1 year ago. Time goes to fast😔
I love this channel :P
I love how even in bizzare scenario like this Cody... Don't really focus only on alternate history, but uses the scenario to tell why we are where we are (in oue timeline)
The Soviet strategy of proposing that the U.S be relegated to a non voting position is actually pretty smart, at least in terms of propaganda. They basically showed that NATO was an offensive imperialist alliance where not all members were equal and was mostly meant to preserve American hegemony. Luckily, the Soviets firmly rejected the idea of forming their own offensive imperialist alliance where one country held the vast majority of the power and everyone lived happily ever after.
Yes, the Soviets would never stoop so lo- *Sees Warsaw Pact and the Sino-Soviet Alliance* What the fuck is that?!
Nice video
14:01 that's the biggest insult to Russia I've ever seen
Not a insult. Just the truth. Atleast North Korea is obvious that they’re bad. Russia acts their actions are justified even after killing millions of Ukrainians.
Please do a video on if the Sino-Soviet split never happened or was patched up in the 70s. It would be super cool.
Isn't that just soviets continuing with Stalinism or China softens and pro and cons that follow?
@@tuotuolu2805 probably the USSR reforming and opening considering what Kosygin had in mind. He was the inspiration for Xiaoping.
I think he already did
He did something with a sino topic in the past
@@sirjerearchive1342 That was what if the nationalists won the Sino Civil War, I don't think the Sino-Soviet Split has been covered as a full topic here
5:15 The "allied but with much animosity and undermining" scenario you're describing can be seen to an extent in real life with Saudi, Pakistani, Egyptian and Israeli relations with the U.S., so its not as totally impossible of a concept as it might seem.
#9:05
Europe Falls To Communism
I kinda wanna see a video about what this timeline would be like
Everyone dies in Hunger, Europe turns into North Korea. Simple.
Khrushchev: "You're going to talks about an defense-alliance with our ideological archenemy".
Molotov: "Again ?"
"If I turn an enemy into a friend, haven't I defeated the enemy?"
Abraham Lincoln.
Both sides win and both sides lose, if that is the case.
Problem with this is that to turn major enemies into friends, you often have to pay extreme price. Russia would be best friend of USA. They would love top support them economicaly and with military´. Only the price they would ask for that is for USA to turn into comunist country
Churchill actually wanted the USSR to join Nato. At that time British and French contributed most to the NATO Forces and the US was only a minor player because the Korean war had screwed up the American deployment plans for Europe.
Beria had already made overtures towards the West, and the proposal of the Soviets to join NATO would have been a great first step towards ending the Cold War and start an era of peaceful co-existence. This would have been beneficial for all parties involved and would have increased the standard of living for the British People (which was still pretty low less than a decade after the war had ended). So Churchill supported the move, maybe he could have been more persuasive in this alt history.
"churchill wanted the scoop to join nato" churchill meanwhile "the ussr it is the genocidal and unfair ultra poor country. It's literally hell"(and he was right) -_-
*Bro that music change accompanied with
*1953* Followed by the brief pause in music "Stalin is dead" and then the music resumes fucking just killed me lmao
4:18 Maybe it's just the movie clip you showed on your 1953 card, but I'm going to say that the common enemy that brings everyone together is an alien invasion from Planet X or something.
The Imperial Aquila genuinely killed me
The Emperor Protects
Ave Imperator!
How about doing "what if NATO invades Russia?". Because a LOT of people on twitter seem to think that's a great idea right now. Someone should point out why it's actually a *terrible* idea. Mostly this seems to be either based on a mistaken belief that NATO could prevent nuclear retaliation with a decapitating first strike. (they could decapitate sure but it still wouldn't prevent the nuclear retaliation) or that Russia "wouldn't dare" to escalate a conventional conflict into a nuclear one (they don't seem to know that small battlefield nukes make this sort of escalation a lot more likely than they realize)
Answer is: Red button and new Fallout 2022
Dead hand system can launch russian nukes without any human input .
But it was developed by the Soviets in 1983 so it's a bit old and considering how the Soviet and later the russian military haven't actually been receiving proper funding since 1988, I dont think dead hand and much of the equipment of the russian army have been well maintained. Soviet defense budget peaked at $ 344 billion in 1988 before plummeting to less than $ 20 billion under Yeltsin in 1999.
@@KillerofWestoids who knows. NATO still staying after union's collapse may have resulted in Russian paranoia, forcing them to develop nukes further
@@user-xe3ng6sj9o Russians were paranoid decades before NATO was even formed.
@@kavky /shrug
Really fun video. I like the way his mind works. But I disagree with all of it! Because it's easy to. He made it up! I thoroughly enjoyed it!
I must say I think this is one of the funniest videos you've ever made.
This is something I've been working on in my own head for a while but would love to see your take on:
What if the American Civil War spiraled into a global conflict?
that should be a good video for sure
also I made a video about it if you wanna see my opinion on what would happen
ua-cam.com/video/dQw4w9WgXcQ/v-deo.html
I don't think the major powers would have been able to this, not only where each country dealing with big internal problems, it wouldn't be financially viable.
It actually makes some sense, some European countries almost got involved to help the confederates due to a lack of cotton supplies but decided not to because they had already done away with slavery and fighting for it would give them a bad reputation.
@@bigchungusdriplord2301 HA! you can't fool me with that link! i've saw it atleast a 100 times!
@@Ronald98 well what about this link
ua-cam.com/video/GPLS9HCH6m0/v-deo.html
"1984" probably spells out a fairly realistic way all of the world governments could/would come together. And the ways that would effect the people.
Pretty much the opposite of optimistic.
i swear, that setting feels more and more inevitable as media narrows down the discussion of international relations to the US, China, and Russia.
It's only not optimistic if you're not one of the Inner Party.
1984's vision of world unity was utterly stupid. Fighting an endless war is unsustainable economically and agreeing to fight a war between Allies to maintain power would require some braindead leadership on all sides. And the idea that the "Proles" would be unregulated by INCSOC and they wouldn't care about their miserable conditions due to the war economy was even dumber.
@@Edax_Royeaux Wasn't it stated that the Thought Police do kill off smarter Proles and troublemakers among them, though? So they aren't unregulated.
@@Edax_Royeaux Brave New World was better by far.
That first timeline would make a fun board or ttrpg game. All spies and sabotage that everyone's aware of but no one acknowledges.
Is no one gonna talk about how nato was made to deal with russia
I mean, we do have a NATO without the US. That's basically the EU (less militaristic but basically just replaces myilitary power with economic power). Which Russia also hates because it considers joining the EU more or less a prelude to joining NATO and the EU is clearly capitalist.
True but like Nato the EU is ran by a bunch of egotistic morons who don't want to do anything besides consolidate power and line their pockets.
Russia today is capitalist. If we're talking Russia and not soviet union, what would bother Putin's Russia the most in the EU is the whole human rights, liberal democracy and economical regulation bits i'd think.
@@thundercheckov9782 yeah, thought the same. Capitalism isn't the issue, human rights, liberal democracy, environmental protection demands and the need to submit to decisions made by the EC would probably be too much. Russia considers itself too big and powerful to be 'just' a member.
The EU is not a military alliance. Sweden and Finland are both EU members and consider themselves non alligned, they aren't NATO allies. The EU is more or less a common economic market, and it isn't even that "common" since Schengen and Eurozone don't include the same states, as it stands there is no formal agreement between member states to protect eachother. There were however talks of a common EU army; not sure if it was to be another layer above state side armies or to conglomerate all the armed forces into a single entity.
@@andreibaciu7518 there is the EUBG. They're only batallion-sized. It operates under the EU.
I love that you, unlike other alt-hist channels, admit how stupid and unlikely some of your scenarios are. This is amazing.
They're defending eachother, mutually, against the greatest threat to Humanity.. Emus! And their Cassowary Overlords! Also "Aliens... Man..."
It's not if Russia would join it's if usa would let Russia join NATO
Think that answer is already answered simply
The only way I could see Russia joining NATO and things go swimmingly is if the Republic of Novgorod defeated the Grand Duchy of Muscovy at the Battle of Shelon River during the 1470's and unified the Russian state under their own system of governance being a quasi-parliamentary republic instead of an absolutist monarchy. Then again, the history of the European continent would be dramatically different, maybe Communism might be laughed off as some concept that some old bearded guy in Germany wrote in a rambly book, maybe NATO wouldn't exist at all... might be a good episode of alternate history, Cody.
Finally it's here
ua-cam.com/video/0_S0TN5-15w/v-deo.html
And then Novgorod Russia falls apart due nobles infighting as did the Kievan Rus, Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth and the Holly Roman Empire. Only to have its remnants swallowed up by the Ottomans, Austrians and Swedes. P.S. You'd have to somehow alter history and remove the age of absolutism for a large European republic to exist during this timeframe.
or.. russian revolution doesn't happen, russia was considered a part of the west until that
If we assume for a moment that the general ideological and technological process of Europe and America continue as in our timeline, we would still see the rise of socialist and communist thought, and the influence of Marxism on the far left. But, after Lenin's successful revolution, Leninist doctrines were able to monopolize a lot of this sphere of leftism. Let's assume the fall of Moscovy means the fall of this doctrine, and we have no USSR-equivalent.
What we would see in these spaces is other factions of the left maintain their power within Europe and America. In Europe, that would be those like social democrats, libertarian socialists, anarchists, and those like Luxembourgists who were more sympathetic to Marx's later works on radical democracy as an alternative to DotP. (Luxembourg was very critical of Lenin's vanguard) And in America, with a lack of the first Red Scare, this may see a much more powerful libertarian socialists and syndicalist block, which could have had unknown effects during the Great Depression.
So, generally, a far less toxic global left more sympathetic to republican values if Leninism doesn't win out. No way of knowing how that would manifest beyond this though.
Novgorod was a fucking oligarchical state, and an elective monarchy. This killed it. Muscovy was strong enough to survive, and it did
I wrote a research paper about US foreign policy for a composition class last semester. My scenario for Russia joining NATO: the US never invades Iraq. It was the Iraq war that made Putin begin to view the West, specifically the US, as “imperialists”. I believe that if Iraq was not invaded in 2003, Russia and the US could have put aside their differences.
Russia has viewed the us as imperialistic sense the start if the cold war
It seems that everyone forgot about the bombing and destruction of Yugoslavia in 1999. THIS is what showed Russia the danger of NATO, and Iraq only reinforced it. And then there was Libya. All this showed Russia that NATO is an aggressor, and that something needs to be done about it until NATO came to Russia.
putin began to view nato in a negative light once they broke the promise to not expand east into former warsaw pact members
@@hhhhhh-vi6sq No no
You wrote that shit and are still allowed on your campus?
If you can’t beat ’em
Join ‘em.
good video