After actually traveling to his coral castle, and reading his work , and his pamplets which also contain very interesting information, it will be discovered how great this man was! Awesome work as always lasersaber. Cheers.
Ed Leedskalnin explains that magnetic current is the composition of so called electric current, but there are 2 contra currents. The materials around which the current flows have different retentive properties, and different transmission line properties. Transformers and generators work by filling the cores with the magnetic current and then the core transmits the magnetic current to the copper wire where it dissipates into the atmosphere if no path is available. The principles are consistent .
Hi Lasersaber, puting the coil in the freezer would lower the resistance on the wires, making it draw more current when shorted, leaving a larger residual magnetism. I think that is the explanationfor that.
This principle is used in AC relay coils to keep the relay from buzzing at 60 hz. The second coil maintains the residual magnetic flux by capturing the collapsing magnetic field in a circulating current in the secondary coil. If you look at an AC relay you will see a ring of copper or shunt coil around or through the core. It is doing what you are demonstrating here to keep the armature from rattling between polarity shifts of the AC sine wave.
Does the ferrite "E" core you used have a center pole gap when mated? Many switching transformer cores like this do, to prevent saturation. It would easily act as an electro-magnet, but without an unbroken flux path, it can't maintain on its own.
Lasersaber - a good/simple extension to this experiment may be to connect your o-scope to the "primary" side, and watch for extended 'ringing' when you disconnect the battery. You may find that the "release" happens as the ringing decays to s specific level. That 30 gauge coil will also have a self-capacitance due to the wire-upon-wire windings, therefore will have a self-resonance frequency. Thanks for keeping us thinking!
Break the magnetic latching while you have an analog amp meter connected to the secondary. That will tell you about a lot. In the iron example with retentivity. The steel's magnetic domains retain some energy keeping the domains aligned in a loop. When you created an airgap, you increased the magnetic reluctance and the magnetic domains reorganized to shoter low reluctance magnetic circuits with adjacent domains.
is there a way of calculating the capacitance of your feed coil and working out the induced voltage of the second coil ? what is confusing me a little and it might not be relevant is that in the PMH your charging coil wire is smaller size to the PMH which the gauge of the steel (closed coil) is greater than the copper charge coil but in your excellent demonstration the secondary PMH colosed loop is smaller gauge than your charging coil
The reason why it works when you shot the coil with the red wire must be because the coil loop that you are closing keeps a current trapped, therefore that residual current in the coil generates a magnetic field that keeps the 2 pieces together, this current will be dissipated by the resistivity of the coil eventually. Also, if you reduce the temperature, this effect will last longer since you are reducing the resistivity of the coil that has the red wire to it therefore the current takes longer to die out. To test this try soldering a potentiometer to the red leads and see if there is a difference in how long this effect lasts at different resistances.
I believe you get a pulse of voltage when you pull them apart too! I wonder if there could be any cost savings made by using this principle for a latching relay (only needing one coil, instead of two)
I would think in the shorted secondary coil, would be a damped oscillation. Coils have implicit capacitance, so this is an LRC circuit really, with resistance in the wire, and capacitance between the windings. So it should ring, but dampen due to the losses. Hence, I would predict the magnetic effects would also be damped over time. Do they, or does it stay magnitized indefinitely like Leedskalnin's PMH?
I found the second part of this video with the shorted secondary coil to be most interesting. I have been wanting to do an experiment similar to this. Coils and capacitors are both energy storing devices. A capacitor is more easily understood. If you apply voltage to the capacitor leads for a moment and then remove it, you have just stored energy in the capacitor in the form of a dielectric field between the plates. If you then connect a load, like a light bulb, across the leads of the capacitor, the stored energy is released in the form of current to produce heat and light. In the case of a coil, when you apply an electric current to the leads of the coil, you are creating a magnetic field around the coil. If you suddenly remove the source of electric current, you will often see a spark just as the current is removed which is usually at a much higher voltage than the source. The reason for this spark is the magnetic field is suddenly no longer being maintained by the current going through the coil so it collapses at a velocity approaching that of light. Voltage is directly related to the velocity of the magnetic field so since the resistance is infinite, the field tries to maintain current flow by producing whatever voltage is required. eventually the voltage becomes high enough to jump the gap and make a spark. With the coils in the video, the primary produces the magnetic field and is disconnected. The magnetic field begins to collapse but then encounters the shorted secondary. Since that coil has a very small resistance, very little of the magnetic field is consumed to create enough voltage in the shorted coil to produce current flow. When current begins to flow in the secondary, it has the effect of pushing the magnetic field back out. Eventually the resistance of the wire in the secondary consumes the magnetic field and produces heat and the field disappears releasing the two halves of the core material. VERY COOL!!
Dear lasersaber, I am very glad you have decided to study the PMH principle. For me, it has been always a question of creating stationary wave(s) of current (so the permanent magnetic field), or back and forth waves, made possible thanks to the long enough length of the coil, regards to the wave length involved. Would be interesting to make some calculation about that. Remember that soft steel has already the known capability to keep magnetism easely, means the spins of electrons will stay organise easily for a while by remanence, which is not the case of the material of an hoven core in think. You may try with a piezo and si the difference in the strength of the holding and conclude about the effect of high voltage impulse ;) Regards.
I am not sure I got what direction you winded the external coil. Anyway, would it make sense to think that the external coil's field is "opposing" the internal coil's field so they create a resistance that makes the current go down slowly instead of dropping straight to zero?
I have been reading all the comments. Thanks for all the great input. I do think that the second effect is probably related to Daniel McFarland Cook device. I did come across what may be the earliest mention of the PMH effect in "Davis's manual of magnetism" 1842. See the page 75-78 on the "Magic Circle". Read what the end of paragraph 128 on page 76 says "If the flow of the current in the coil is stopped while the armatures are applied to each other as shown in figures 50 and 51 they will still continue firmly attached but if once separated will not adhere again." See link: books.google.com/books?id=XRRLAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA75#v=onepage&q&f=false
TheRealVerbz2 Goes back further than that, to Edward Leedskalnin .. www.leedskalnin.com/ There is also a PDF of a paper he wrote on magnetism that explains this, property, back in the '30's
Jason Pollastrini That's not accurate to compare Bearden's "Motionless Electromagnetic Generator" to Leedskalnin's rotating flywheel. (which uses stacked V magnets) I have all of Leedskalnin's writings. Got them from my friend Matt Emery who runs Leedskalnin.com Take note that the PDF of Magnetic Current with illustrations is Not Ed's original writing. There were no illustrations in his original. Matt Emery sent me the PHM U bar you see in his site. I did a couple videos with it. Here's part 1. ua-cam.com/video/UFcd_QCLK5w/v-deo.html Here's a recent video from a man who is proving Leeskalnin's work by himself: ua-cam.com/video/nOoCuDnmtyM/v-deo.html --Jason Verbelli Searl Magnetics, Inc.
lasersaber i am going to say the reasoning behind the residual magnetism is simple. When the coil is turned on, it temporarily aligns the polarity of the metal rod. as without it, the polarity of the rods molecules are not aligned north to south. Once the electromagnet is shorted, the electricity has nowhere to go, and so in turn it transfers to the metal rod, aligning its polarity. when the battery is removed, the rods polarity is kept aligned by the coils aligned polarity. once you separate it, there is nothing holding the polarity in place, and it falls back to being out of alignment. i.e. the coil and the rod keep each others polarity in alignment by the attraction of magnetism.
First, The effect of electron current in the primary coil causes the surrounding aether to linearize forming a magnetic field in the core. Then, when the battery is detached, because of this core's unique ability to instantly collapse its magnet field, an electron current is induced in the secondary coil. The timeing of this current is slightly delayed because of the secondary coils many turns of wire giving it capacitance value, storing the electrical charge for a tiny fraction of a nano-second before releasing it into another current running back through the same coil producing another instance of magnetism within the core. When the secondary's current stops, the core's magnetic field collapses and this ping-pong process repeats probably over a thousand times in the short time that it continues before the wire's braking resistance to electron flow causes it all to eventually come to a halt.
Try the Ed Leedskalnin approach. Connect the top coil wire to the bottom of the other and vice a versa. Charge the coils at each connection point and see if it holds then.
I read the description where you mentioned Edward Leedskalnin and was hoping you'd explain a little about how he tied into this. Anyway, interesting video and now I will start my google quest.
In your next video, can you tell us the results of the difference in temperatures, electrical resistance on the secondary coil, and initial voltages applied?
You’re closing the loop on the primary so it is simply acting like a switch. The permanent magnet effect is provided by oscillation between the primary and secondary. When closing the loop on the 30 gauge wire It allows the current to remain. You can also use it like a spark gap. connecting one end in series will change the circuit from non-inductive to inductive. Many different configurations can be used here. I think even a trip to wiki about bifilar coils and amplified transceivers aka Tesla coils and stators should help.
I've seen numerous videos about the PMH but don't remember anyone trying to explain it, just simply saying it's OU or something. Eddy currents in the soft iron causes the PMH to stay together without outside energy. We can tell it's eddies because the ferrite core, or normal laminated steel cores, don't produce the same effects as a solid bar of iron. The reason why the ferrite lasts longer with a shorted coil is due to the current flowing in the coil. It's not permanent because the shorted coil has resistance, causing energy to be wasted as heat until the magnetic field collapses. It would probably last longer, or maybe even permanently, if a large single loop of copper were wrapped around the core. I don't think it's related to Cook's battery because he states that using iron wire produces a better output than solid iron cores- this reduces eddies and remanence. Coincidentally, eddies do reduce CEMF which he states is necessary for his battery to operate. But instead of eddies he uses the inter-winding capacitance of a long, fine wire to reduce CEMF. Basically he made a transformer with a high inductance and distributed capacitance across the primary winding that negated CEMF.
My 2 cents: When shorting the second coil it stores a Back-current induced by magnetism from the primary. Since the second coil is shorted, the current just runs through the coil converting to heat. When cutting power to the primary coil, the stored back emc of the second coil instead flows back into magnetizing the core. Just as our nigerian friend stated, it serves as a capacitor.
This is my take on what you have going on there. Ferrite cores for transformers are designed to saturate and lose magnetic fields quickly. This helps with power transmission. It is referred to as a fast switching magnetic core. The mostly iron bolt and bar for your PMH saturates magnetically and then given the right circumstances will hold that charge for a very long time. Ferrite won't. The reason shorting the second coil makes the ferrite act as an electromagnet longer is because the coil holds some energy that induces magnetism in the ferrite. I doubt that it will make it act as a PMH though because the energy stored in the coil won't last long. The coil stores energy in a magnetic field induced in it by the primary.
perhaps adding an ammeter to the second winding would shed some light. I would assume it has something to do with the magnetic field slowly collapsing instead of quickly without the current path on the secondary. I'm not as knowledgeable on inductors as I wish I was, but my guess is there's a current on the secondary winding for a few moments after you remove the power source.
If you connect a multimeter to measure current in the secondary coil you will see that there is a current induced there as you apply the magnetic field with the primary coil. It will then decay "slowly" (based on the resistance of the wire and meter) and when dissapated the holding power will be gone. Since a static magnetic field does not create current in the coil it works the other way around; It's the decaying field keeping the curent flowing/decaying. In essence the extra energy to create a holding force is not in the ferrite, it is stored in the secondary coil. If the secondary coil had been a superconductor you can store a LOT of energy. Collapsing the field in your first half of the experiment would create a pulse of energy in the coil as well in case you were wondering, but there the magnetic field in the iron doesn't want to change after being aligned so it holds the field until you break the magnetic loop.
it keeps holding because the current is able to keep flowing for a few moments after removal, and like u said the red cables are the stronger side and black is weaker, dose it work with the black cables tide together ?
I dont really know a lot about this, but i have an idea with the secound experiment: When you connect the black wires to power, a magnetic field comes up generates voltage at the RED wires. WHEN THE RED WIRES ARE CONECTED, there is a high current flow in the "red" coil. This flow maintains the magnetic field when you disconnect the battery and pulls the two parts together. (Energy gets saved) After a while, the flow of electrons in the red coil decreases due to resistance of the coil, the magnetic field slowly disapears and (after a while) the 2 parts can not hold together. (after you put the coils in the freezer, it did hold longer -> less resitance, longer connection!) WHEN THE RED WIRES ARE NOT CONECTED, the magnetic field can not exist after you disconnect the battery because there is no place where high current can flow.(no current -> no magnetic field)
I Am zed from Nigeria, I experience ur procedure with addition of capacitor to both end of red wire winding and d magnetic residuals keep for long, den I conclude d system can recycle electrical energy for seconds or minute depend on capacitance of red wire winding in d system
Could it be an electrically enduced Casimir effect? It seems to prefer nice and flat matching surfaces, right? Interesting to me is that there seems to be an upper limit as to how strong the residual locking can get. No point in energizing the coil(s) longer or harder. So it's about the materials and likely surfaces more than about power and duration of the energizing. How do parts of various metals work, when dimensioned and surface treated identicually? Can we learn from those results?
reason i was looking at Ed's PMH's here is I was wondering if you can get a pole reading out of one of them.and does it act like a regular magnet or what? does it attract metal? magnets? great work man
My first guess would be that you are creating a form of capacitor with the 2 coils. Easy enough to test with a volt meter to see if there is residual voltage present after removing the battery. That residual voltage would be enough to maintain the electromagnet until it is used up. Just a thought...
This is an electric analog of the Bernoulli effect. The running electric charges create a low pressure or a relative vacuum in the ambient electromagnetic field of the materials causing their atoms to realign accordingly.
Is it possible this has to do with magnetic hysteresis? I know certain hard drives and other magnetic storage devices uses hysteresis to lock the magnetisation of the ferromagnetic materials, but I've never heard of it being used to lock fields as strong as those in this video.
it would seem that with the leads on the coil shorted the energy can not escape when battery is disconnected so the current that magnetizes the two pieces together can will hold until energy is used up
Ls, First, the ferrite core you use is built to perform at a certain frequency. Second, this delayed electromagnetic effect can give you time to close the primary. (wire where you put the current first). Eric
So the shorted coil is energized by induction from the DC applied to the other coil and short coil maintains the magnetic effect until it's field collapses?
I don't really know whats it called in English, roughly translated to "remaining magnetism". When you run electricity through the coil the atoms and newtons and whatever gets aligned, that is what creates the magnetic field. If you use enough power this edisons will stay align even after you stop inputing power. So you are still left with a bit of magnetism. Kinda like when you drive your car and turn it of in the middle of the road, the car is still doing what the cars doing. You need to make it do the opposite like breaking if you want the car stop caring. remanent magnetism might be the correct English term.
When you short the one coil, it becomes a closed loop/structure that gains energy via inductance from the primary energized coil, but quickly loses that energy once the primary coil is de-energized as a function of the charge in the secondary inducting back to the now open primary and escaping b/c the primary is open. I suspect that if you were to short the primary immediately after removing energy from it, with both coils now closed loops, it would hold magnetism for long than with one coil being open.
you don't need to keep the coil there, once its energized the metal stays together by itself, try with 6 nuts in a hexagon, run the wire through the middle, energize the wire + to - then remove it, the nuts will hold by themselves.
My thoughts (in Ed Speak) are the magnets are flowing around the core, then as all transformers do, are inducing into the fine wire - thereby bleeding off the magnets from within the core - until the two halves no longer have enough magnets flowing to hold itself together. There is nothing really special about the E-Core, as if you wound a single coil, it would act like the PMH with indefinite hold time until the halves are forcibly separated. I think a similar effect would be found if you took the standard U-shaped PMH, and put a second single wrapped coil on the "other" leg. Using the "charging" coil, you could lock the keeper in place with a quick charge, and if you shorted the "other" coil on the second leg, you would get the transformer action, and the individual magnets would bleed off - just as in the bifilar wound coil in your video. Worth a try to see if you get similar results.
One interesting thing I didn't see mentioned was that an electric field resists collapsing momentarily when a circuit is broken which you might understand better a bemf and is the cause of internal electromagnetic resistance in a motor. I would wager a guess as to say that the core is somehow holding that bemf as there is no external connection to a grounded circuit in which to bleed off the residual emf of the coil which would "unlock" the field.
If you look at Ed's magnetic flywheel and the coil windings around on glass bottles, he used the pmh as a magnetic capacitor in this circuit to power coral castle
residual magnetic field due to a capacitive coupling in the shorted secondary. OR a tank circuit ringing until it fades out hence it holding for a an instance. Add a 18v 2F cap and see how long it sings
i think its because of the self capacitance of the coil. and when u freese it resistance is lower so you safe more when it goes the second round and third and so on. since u gave it a oppertunity to flow till gone.
well it seems to make sense to me don't think it is strange. It seems to me that there is 2 magnetic fields working and one is holding the other to it. Have you tried quickly connecting the blue together once you take the ends off the battery? Maybe it will hold together if you do so.
your coil becomes a capacitor with a recycling effect the type of mettle used will improve or reduce the capacitance lengthening or shortening the time that it stays locked.
From what I understand, What I think you are observing with the soft iron is *magnetic hysteresis*, and that phenomena was used in early computers to store data. In the closed core, magnetism will either "flow" in one direction or the other, and that will lock the magnetic keeper to the horse-shoe iron. This magnetism cannot be fully removed, only reversed when another pulse of opposite polarity is applied, but in order flip the polarity of the magnetic "circuit" there has to be a moment when the transition passes through '0' magnetism, just like a car having to stop completely before going in reverse. That is why the keeper falls off then it can no longer sustain a strong magnetic field. The reason that magnetism in the soft iron persists is because it is conductive, while the ferrite core is not. This means eddy currents cannot form in the core. Imagine the soft iron core as not only a core, but also as a shorted secondary. Looking a a cross section of it, imagine many millions of loops, rings and coils that are all conductive! The ferrite core, on the other hand, It is specifically designed not to be conductive, and so these parasitic currents cannot form as easily. The reason this matters is because when making transformers, if the core is conductive, then what happens is that the alternating magnetic flux will induce current in the core and this robs power from the primary, and it is lost as heat (since iron has a little resistance and current+resistance = heat) To eliminate that, iron and other ferromagnetic materials is made into a powder and then the power is glued and molded together so the electrical resistance is really high while maintaining a reasonable level of permeability (magnetic conductivity). By eliminating electrical currents forming in the core, all the changing magnetic flux can induce current is secondary coils and thus the transformer will be more efficient. The reason having another coil shorted allows the magnetic hysteresis to reappear is because it simulates the cross-sectional area of the other soft iron core with infinite cross-sections being like shorted coils of wire. An electrical current is induced creating a semi-permanent magnetic field that will slowly die away as electrical resistance in the wire resists current. I bet you can stick an ammeter on that L2 coil and measure electrical current flowing for a few seconds until the effect dies away. The higher the resistance, the weaker the hysteresis and locking will be. This is just my current understanding, I really do not have any idea or understanding of the weird and wonderful world of electromagnetism, let alone any formal education in electronics.
Very excellent read there Power Max, Thank you for writing that. I want to say that I've been reading Eds book *Magnetic Current* to gain the insight what Ed thinks and he shows us from his book *that the coil is a magnet during the time currents are made.* From what I'm picking up on is that through Mutual induction the secondary coil becomes a electromagnet which holds the core together but due to the soft iron its not able hold the magnetic bond after the created electromagnet (like the PMH), the electromagnet eventually stops working on the secondary and the soft iron core no longer is able to hold it core section together. And believe it or not but Eds points all this out in his book in his own terms of course. Here is how here put he puts it in his book *"You know the soft iron does not hold magnets, but you already have one that holds it. It is the perpetual motion holder. It illustrates the principle how permanent magnets are made. All that has to be done is to start the magnets to run in on orbit, then they will never stop."*
Leviathan15s Nah, I don't have any real clue whatsoever, this is just some of my ideas and current understanding, the terminology is just wikipedia stuff I found a long time ago and I learned the history of magnetic storage at the EEVblog, but thanks!
Hello. I love electrical theory, studying it as a pastime interest stemmed from my education in the electrical field. I have a couple ideas about this fascinating subject. In regards to keeping the core magnetized longer I’d suspect the more mass on your coils would act a lot like the plates in a battery. The surface area of the plates (in this case the coil) is the what determines the amount of amps stored in the system. This is also what determines the capacitance of a capacitor. My second insight is the core. As I’m sure you already know the type of material is more important in regards to producing magnetism than the material of windings. This is why they use soft iron in the majority of conventional transformers. They use plates covered with a film of insulators. This is to control the flux of the core and keep any interference from it and they windings separate. The flux lines from the coil will attract to the core and will attempt to make the core the same charge which will kill the magnetism. I’d make a new coil with a coil with a single winding with more mass. The second thing I’d try and I’d bet my crappy Honda on would be insulating your core so there is no interaction between the two. Good luck
I deduce that shorting the other coil caused a magnetic oscillation back through this circuit which would explain why you have such a short time for residual magnetism
Hi I'm making a custom door lock- I got some electromagnets from McMaster Carr that seem to do the magnetic latching when power is removed. Is there a way to modify them so this does not occur; so they disengage immediately? Thanks!!
Aren't you creating a tank circuit by "shorting" (wrong word actually, as shorting would mean you short across the coils, not that you connect the ends together)? The coils have between them a capacitance and since they are inductors you are finding a resonance of sort, and the ring down keeps your system charged. Put a voltmeter on it.
when you short the coil, the electric current is residing through resistance. which then keeps the magnetism. when the coil is not shorted the poles are tightly magnetized throughout the horseshoe shape. once the bar is removed the residual magnetism is counter acted by the vibrations and the strong to weak magnetic field experienced by removing the bar from the horseshoe shaped magnet.
supposedly there is a residual type voltage flow just as the contact is made and cut... the needle is observed to move only just a few millimeters but it is bankable...
the inductive power transfer between the coils happens only during changes in voltage, in this case when connecting and unconnecting the battery. So when unconnecting, the shortened coil will cause a short pulse that happens while the primary coils field is collapsing. This pulses polarity is opposite to the one of the collapsing field, preventing the magnetic loop of the outer legs from flowing trough the middle leg. Or something ^^
this effect is because of induction of the secondary coil. it wants to resist the reduction in the magnetic field passing it thus it creates a current to keep that until it looses its power. so till this time the core would be magnetized and it would remain locked.
This is a well known effect in scrap yards. The lift magnets are even equipped with a "release" function where a timed reverse pulse releases the rest of the scrap metal. This is a hysteresis effect. where magnetic domains align . This is stronger in solid metal and requires energy to establish and energy is released on collapsing. As far as the coil maintaining the magnetic field, this is a maintained current in the second coil. This effect is how brush-less motors work.
I beleive the ushaped softiron latch is acting both as a one turn coil and a core and that is why ,like the dual coil , it will hold its magnetic feild. You should put two ushaped softiron cores inside one coil and see if they both hold the field for half as long. I beleive there mist be a cycle of one coil collapse refeeding the other coil with energy to recreate the magnetic field in the iron. It is very low loss. Perhaps like your graphite ringer circuit there is a resistive delaye to make it ring/cycle.
do you think that due to the alignment of each metal a softer ,like the u bolt test, would line up easier and the core test would need a time delay or slight residual effect to allow a better alignment to hold a harder metal in place. my thoughts are on a pulse test on a harder metal instead of a coil to hold it . if that make a difference?
It looks like you have built an electropermanent magnet. The solenoids that hold open firedoors in office highrise buildings use a similar principle. They use no static power. You only need to apply power to switch between holding and not-holding.
the movement of electrons within the coil it self does not stop when you remove the battery because it is still a complete circuit and thus will keep going until the resistance of the coil slows the electron to a stop.. kinda an upside down bike if you spin the tire it will keep going until outside forces stop it and the resistance of the wire would be like slightly pressing the brake of the tire.. the more resistance the more the coil will slow the electrons. but if you have a longer coil it will have to travel a long distance until it makes a complete circuit. the highest resistance in MOST circuits are the connectors. but in theory if you apply a shock to one coil with the other coil shorted it will hold the electromagnetism for a short while but if you shock one coil then short it out with the other coil in reverse you should be able to gain more magnetism time out of the same coils.. they say you can not create or destroy energy.. BUT they never said you cant just move the electrons within the wire. which the movement of electrons is what we call electricity.. this is why SOME of the "free" energy devices actually work. because they only apply magnetism (which is a form of energy it self) and copper (which carries electrons) and the electrons are either pushed or pulled thru the conductor.. and btw copper becomes a SUPER CONDUCTOR at extremely cold tempatures which means that at extremely low temps the copper has very low resistance. the colder it gets the lower the resistance. but just remember that each winding gives more and more magnetism out which will in turn cause electrons to move within the other coil which in turn will also create magnetism.. so the more coils you have on the secondary coil (one with power applied) the more magnetism you can push into the other coil. just my opinion tho
the same can be done with a large transformer as well the secondary coil can be shorted with a large current diode and a neon light several seconds after the coil has been energized the diode can be removed to flash the neon. you should look into quantum entanglement for the better understanding of what is going on . the resistance on the coil even several ohms will null out the effect.
The last experiment with the coil and the transformer core is pretty simple to explane. When you energize the primary coil, and shorten the secondary coil, the secondary coil will need some time for the magnetic field in it to collapse when you remove the powersource. It is the sudden collapse of the primary coils magnetic field that induce a current in the secondary coil. It will take some time for this current to stop flowing, and therfor the two transformer cores will stick together untill the current flow has dropped sufficiently to finally release the two cores. You might experience that the cores will stick together longer if you shorten the secondary coil AFTER you supply power to the primary coil. If you do not short the secondary coil, but place the wires close to eachother, you will probably see a spark when you remove the powersource. This spark occurs because the primary magnetic field collapses so fast, it will incuce a high voltage in the secondary coil, but almost no current - except during the duration of the spark. Superconductive electromagnets, such as them used at CERN will maintain its magnetic field after the powersource has been removed. In that sense we can also say that normal permanent magnets are superconductive in its structure that keeps the electrons spinning in the same direction "forever".
I would think that after you put the electricity in it is re conducted by the coil to maintain the electromagnet, and with the transformer I guess it just releases the power faster because the function of a transformer is to change amounts of voltage and ampage, either way around for higher or lower and I think some is generally lost in that process when constant energy even so I think that is why.
Try tapping the secondary coil in the middle to measure the voltage going through it. It would be really interesting if it was oscillating in some way.
Robert Brockway The power flowed from the battery(current source) and when the secondary was shorted then an induced current is initiated into the iron. Yeah you think you know something. It is the moving current in a wire after all that creates a magnetic field around that wire, basic electronics 101. Next you'll be trying to tell me a permanent magnet is a static device?
Hi on the red wires make a figure 8 and in the cross over it may give out all voltage and loop back in joe booker explains in joe cell talks 5. Static then transformed by oscillation looping
If you rub a piece of iron across a magnet a few times it will become magnetized for a bit. What is the difference here? Isn't the coil just 'rubbing' the core a bit?
its because you have lots of copper wire coiled around something so when you connect the battery and take it of the current still flows in the copper wire so if you remove some it might not stay like that for a long time
To me the first experiment is the most interesting as it maintains the magnetic field. The second experiment, as someone noted below, it appears the coil acts like a capacitor. In the first experiment how long does the magnetic field last? It would be interesting the measure total electrical input from the battery in relation to the electro magnetic field over the holding period.
wonder what would happen if you could get soft iron shaped the same way for each apparatus you are testing - then you may find out geometry might be the issue here. perhaps instead of using the other half of that transformer core use a soft iron bar with the other transformer core. Just a suggestion... like Ed said, if the coil is closed circuit the energy will circulate forever, assuming there is no electrical leakage anywhere. open the circuit and she will loose her attraction - regardless it looks like your on to something cool
I thought that the electromagnetic field stored in the coil have a place in this process and when the stored voltage are used the magnetic core fills down.
The answer appears to be very simple , lts like locking the back door and you only load and unload from the front door. some metals store magnetism and some dont. you just basically answer your own question. you told us B comes after A , but your also asking us what number comes after 1. But nevertheless you showed us something great to learn from. its seems like it can work like a capacitor for delay oscillation without a transistor... the real trick here is how your able to demagnetize the metal. its stored induction in second coil therefore keeping the hold until reverse DC is applied that acts as AC to demagnetizes.
my advice, research more than one video... this stuff is tricky... you start to plan before you completely know everything... but everything has learning curve... be prepared to make mistakes and before you know it , you will know 7 ways to do something
Very very interesting. I would guess that there is some kind of induction current maintaining the field. It would make sense that the one with the second coil wouldn't last as long due to a high resistance (lower efficiency) vs the looping iron core of the single coil setup. There was a device developed during WWII called the Hans Coler Coil that may have exploited the same or similar phenomena. Researching it may provide some insight into the effect at hand. I will be looking into this and am very interested to hear an explanation!
Interesting, didnt know about that but makes sense I guess. In the second case it must be the induced current in the second coil that is holding the magnetic field. It last until the resistive losses in the coil consumes the energy. So, having more windings will give you a higher current but also a higher loss because of the increased resistance in a thinner wire. Fewer turns with a thicker wire goes in the other direction but I dont know which one is the "better". The iron bar is more interesting. Try striking it lightly, cooling it with cold spray, heating it, adding a second magnetic field, an electromagnetic field, electrostatic field etc. and see how it effects the aligned magnetic cells. You can read a little about Barkhausen noise regarding magnetic cells although that is concerned with magnetic changes. Really looking forward to what you can come up with there :)
TL;DR Ferrite has low hysteresis from the lower concentration of iron particles in ceramic (ferrite) and thus low residual magnetism. Yet with enough inductance the residual current is determined by Tau=L/R [Henry/Ohm] ratio in seconds defines how long the current stored in the loop will decay to 27% of the original value. That's why it doesn't last forever and typically only xx seconds. Whereas, Iron has up to 10x higher magnetic constant and stronger residual magnetism (hysteresis) until the magnetic loop of the nuts is open. Thick nuts work OK for DC but not AC due to losses.
I have a suggestion for you. Attach a second smaller coil to an oscilloscope and place it up next to the core when it is magnetically attracting itself then view the waveform and determine it's frequency. Please let me know what you discover! Thanks!!!!!
The shorted coil becomes another PMH. The magnets traveling through the core, activated by the initial charge, then activate the magnets in the shorted coil. Copper does not hold magnets like iron so it is very weak and breaks loose. If your secondary coil was made of Iron wire it would probably hold longer, maybe even....................................?
Coils do not behave like capacitors. They behave like inductors because that is what a coil is. When you remove the battery the coil tries to resist this and creates a strong negative charge at the positive terminal and a strong positive charge at the negative terminal. Ths is called the back emf. This emf will keep flowing until it eventually stops due to the losses through the wire. Therefore keepin the magnetism. The iron core helps to exaggerate this. In the second example, the two coils act as a transformer. coil 1 inducing a voltage into coil 2. Short coil 2 which has more turns and you get a bigger back emf effect.
After actually traveling to his coral castle, and reading his work , and his pamplets which also contain very interesting information, it will be discovered how great this man was! Awesome work as always lasersaber. Cheers.
Ed Leedskalnin explains that magnetic current is the composition of so called electric current, but there are 2 contra currents. The materials around which the current flows have different retentive properties, and different transmission line properties. Transformers and generators work by filling the cores with the magnetic current and then the core transmits the magnetic current to the copper wire where it dissipates into the atmosphere if no path is available. The principles are consistent .
Hi Lasersaber, puting the coil in the freezer would lower the resistance on the wires, making it draw more current when shorted, leaving a larger residual magnetism.
I think that is the explanationfor that.
This principle is used in AC relay coils to keep the relay from buzzing at 60 hz. The second coil maintains the residual magnetic flux by capturing the collapsing magnetic field in a circulating current in the secondary coil. If you look at an AC relay you will see a ring of copper or shunt coil around or through the core. It is doing what you are demonstrating here to keep the armature from rattling between polarity shifts of the AC sine wave.
That is a neat phenomenon. Good video. Well done.
Does the ferrite "E" core you used have a center pole gap when mated? Many switching transformer cores like this do, to prevent saturation. It would easily act as an electro-magnet, but without an unbroken flux path, it can't maintain on its own.
Lasersaber - a good/simple extension to this experiment may be to connect your o-scope to the "primary" side, and watch for extended 'ringing' when you disconnect the battery. You may find that the "release" happens as the ringing decays to s specific level. That 30 gauge coil will also have a self-capacitance due to the wire-upon-wire windings, therefore will have a self-resonance frequency.
Thanks for keeping us thinking!
Break the magnetic latching while you have an analog amp meter connected to the secondary. That will tell you about a lot.
In the iron example with retentivity. The steel's magnetic domains retain some energy keeping the domains aligned in a loop. When you created an airgap, you increased the magnetic reluctance and the magnetic domains reorganized to shoter low reluctance magnetic circuits with adjacent domains.
is there a way of calculating the capacitance of your feed coil and working out the induced voltage of the second coil ? what is confusing me a little and it might not be relevant is that in the PMH your charging coil wire is smaller size to the PMH which the gauge of the steel (closed coil) is greater than the copper charge coil but in your excellent demonstration the secondary PMH colosed loop is smaller gauge than your charging coil
Some amateur scientist have made a PMH from a single piece of 12 awg wire and this phonomen can still be observed. .check out youtube...its there
The reason why it works when you shot the coil with the red wire must be because the coil loop that you are closing keeps a current trapped, therefore that residual current in the coil generates a magnetic field that keeps the 2 pieces together, this current will be dissipated by the resistivity of the coil eventually. Also, if you reduce the temperature, this effect will last longer since you are reducing the resistivity of the coil that has the red wire to it therefore the current takes longer to die out. To test this try soldering a potentiometer to the red leads and see if there is a difference in how long this effect lasts at different resistances.
I believe you get a pulse of voltage when you pull them apart too!
I wonder if there could be any cost savings made by using this principle for a latching relay (only needing one coil, instead of two)
I would think in the shorted secondary coil, would be a damped oscillation. Coils have implicit capacitance, so this is an LRC circuit really, with resistance in the wire, and capacitance between the windings. So it should ring, but dampen due to the losses. Hence, I would predict the magnetic effects would also be damped over time. Do they, or does it stay magnitized indefinitely like Leedskalnin's PMH?
I found the second part of this video with the shorted secondary coil to be most interesting. I have been wanting to do an experiment similar to this. Coils and capacitors are both energy storing devices. A capacitor is more easily understood. If you apply voltage to the capacitor leads for a moment and then remove it, you have just stored energy in the capacitor in the form of a dielectric field between the plates. If you then connect a load, like a light bulb, across the leads of the capacitor, the stored energy is released in the form of current to produce heat and light.
In the case of a coil, when you apply an electric current to the leads of the coil, you are creating a magnetic field around the coil. If you suddenly remove the source of electric current, you will often see a spark just as the current is removed which is usually at a much higher voltage than the source. The reason for this spark is the magnetic field is suddenly no longer being maintained by the current going through the coil so it collapses at a velocity approaching that of light. Voltage is directly related to the velocity of the magnetic field so since the resistance is infinite, the field tries to maintain current flow by producing whatever voltage is required. eventually the voltage becomes high enough to jump the gap and make a spark.
With the coils in the video, the primary produces the magnetic field and is disconnected. The magnetic field begins to collapse but then encounters the shorted secondary. Since that coil has a very small resistance, very little of the magnetic field is consumed to create enough voltage in the shorted coil to produce current flow. When current begins to flow in the secondary, it has the effect of pushing the magnetic field back out. Eventually the resistance of the wire in the secondary consumes the magnetic field and produces heat and the field disappears releasing the two halves of the core material. VERY COOL!!
Dear lasersaber, I am very glad you have decided to study the PMH principle.
For me, it has been always a question of creating stationary wave(s) of current (so the permanent magnetic field), or back and forth waves, made possible thanks to the long enough length of the coil, regards to the wave length involved.
Would be interesting to make some calculation about that.
Remember that soft steel has already the known capability to keep magnetism easely, means the spins of electrons will stay organise easily for a while by remanence, which is not the case of the material of an hoven core in think.
You may try with a piezo and si the difference in the strength of the holding and conclude about the effect of high voltage impulse ;)
Regards.
I am not sure I got what direction you winded the external coil. Anyway, would it make sense to think that the external coil's field is "opposing" the internal coil's field so they create a resistance that makes the current go down slowly instead of dropping straight to zero?
I have been reading all the comments. Thanks for all the great input. I do think that the second effect is probably related to Daniel McFarland Cook device. I did come across what may be the earliest mention of the PMH effect in "Davis's manual of magnetism" 1842. See the page 75-78 on the "Magic Circle". Read what the end of paragraph 128 on page 76 says "If the flow of the current in the coil is stopped while the armatures are applied to each other as shown in figures 50 and 51 they will still continue firmly attached but if once separated will not adhere again." See link:
books.google.com/books?id=XRRLAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA75#v=onepage&q&f=false
Brett Moore check out a motionless magnetic generator it uses somewhat of the same concept shifting magnetic flux
TheRealVerbz2
Goes back further than that, to Edward Leedskalnin .. www.leedskalnin.com/
There is also a PDF of a paper he wrote on magnetism that explains this, property, back in the '30's
Jason Pollastrini That's not accurate to compare Bearden's "Motionless Electromagnetic Generator" to Leedskalnin's rotating flywheel. (which uses stacked V magnets)
I have all of Leedskalnin's writings. Got them from my friend Matt Emery who runs Leedskalnin.com
Take note that the PDF of Magnetic Current with illustrations is Not Ed's original writing. There were no illustrations in his original.
Matt Emery sent me the PHM U bar you see in his site.
I did a couple videos with it.
Here's part 1.
ua-cam.com/video/UFcd_QCLK5w/v-deo.html
Here's a recent video from a man who is proving Leeskalnin's work by himself: ua-cam.com/video/nOoCuDnmtyM/v-deo.html
--Jason Verbelli
Searl Magnetics, Inc.
lasersaber i am going to say the reasoning behind the residual magnetism is simple. When the coil is turned on, it temporarily aligns the polarity of the metal rod. as without it, the polarity of the rods molecules are not aligned north to south. Once the electromagnet is shorted, the electricity has nowhere to go, and so in turn it transfers to the metal rod, aligning its polarity. when the battery is removed, the rods polarity is kept aligned by the coils aligned polarity. once you separate it, there is nothing holding the polarity in place, and it falls back to being out of alignment. i.e. the coil and the rod keep each others polarity in alignment by the attraction of magnetism.
First, The effect of electron current in the primary coil causes the surrounding aether to linearize forming a magnetic field in the core. Then, when the battery is detached, because of this core's unique ability to instantly collapse its magnet field, an electron current is induced in the secondary coil. The timeing of this current is slightly delayed because of the secondary coils many turns of wire giving it capacitance value, storing the electrical charge for a tiny fraction of a nano-second before releasing it into another current running back through the same coil producing another instance of magnetism within the core. When the secondary's current stops, the core's magnetic field collapses and this ping-pong process repeats probably over a thousand times in the short time that it continues before the wire's braking resistance to electron flow causes it all to eventually come to a halt.
Try the Ed Leedskalnin approach. Connect the top coil wire to the bottom of the other and vice a versa. Charge the coils at each connection point and see if it holds then.
I read the description where you mentioned Edward Leedskalnin and was hoping you'd explain a little about how he tied into this. Anyway, interesting video and now I will start my google quest.
My humble opinion is the second coil work as a kind of capacitor I guess.
Back to the future: "FLUX CAPACITOR"
In your next video, can you tell us the results of the difference in temperatures, electrical resistance on the secondary coil, and initial voltages applied?
Is it possible that the rounded corners allow for greater hold after the power release ? Apposed to the 90 degree corners ?
You’re closing the loop on the primary so it is simply acting like a switch. The permanent magnet effect is provided by oscillation between the primary and secondary. When closing the loop on the 30 gauge wire It allows the current to remain. You can also use it like a spark gap. connecting one end in series will change the circuit from non-inductive to inductive. Many different configurations can be used here. I think even a trip to wiki about bifilar coils and amplified transceivers aka Tesla coils and stators should help.
Hi! Nice Video :-) Can you tell me whats the magnetic orientation arround the core is? A Compass for tests should work.
Thanks :-)
I've seen numerous videos about the PMH but don't remember anyone trying to explain it, just simply saying it's OU or something.
Eddy currents in the soft iron causes the PMH to stay together without outside energy. We can tell it's eddies because the ferrite core, or normal laminated steel cores, don't produce the same effects as a solid bar of iron.
The reason why the ferrite lasts longer with a shorted coil is due to the current flowing in the coil. It's not permanent because the shorted coil has resistance, causing energy to be wasted as heat until the magnetic field collapses. It would probably last longer, or maybe even permanently, if a large single loop of copper were wrapped around the core.
I don't think it's related to Cook's battery because he states that using iron wire produces a better output than solid iron cores- this reduces eddies and remanence. Coincidentally, eddies do reduce CEMF which he states is necessary for his battery to operate. But instead of eddies he uses the inter-winding capacitance of a long, fine wire to reduce CEMF. Basically he made a transformer with a high inductance and distributed capacitance across the primary winding that negated CEMF.
My 2 cents:
When shorting the second coil it stores a Back-current induced by magnetism from the primary.
Since the second coil is shorted, the current just runs through the coil converting to heat.
When cutting power to the primary coil, the stored back emc of the second coil instead flows back into magnetizing the core.
Just as our nigerian friend stated, it serves as a capacitor.
This is my take on what you have going on there. Ferrite cores for transformers are designed to saturate and lose magnetic fields quickly. This helps with power transmission. It is referred to as a fast switching magnetic core. The mostly iron bolt and bar for your PMH saturates magnetically and then given the right circumstances will hold that charge for a very long time. Ferrite won't. The reason shorting the second coil makes the ferrite act as an electromagnet longer is because the coil holds some energy that induces magnetism in the ferrite. I doubt that it will make it act as a PMH though because the energy stored in the coil won't last long. The coil stores energy in a magnetic field induced in it by the primary.
perhaps adding an ammeter to the second winding would shed some light.
I would assume it has something to do with the magnetic field slowly collapsing instead of quickly without the current path on the secondary. I'm not as knowledgeable on inductors as I wish I was, but my guess is there's a current on the secondary winding for a few moments after you remove the power source.
If you connect a multimeter to measure current in the secondary coil you will see that there is a current induced there as you apply the magnetic field with the primary coil.
It will then decay "slowly" (based on the resistance of the wire and meter) and when dissapated the holding power will be gone.
Since a static magnetic field does not create current in the coil it works the other way around; It's the decaying field keeping the curent flowing/decaying.
In essence the extra energy to create a holding force is not in the ferrite, it is stored in the secondary coil.
If the secondary coil had been a superconductor you can store a LOT of energy.
Collapsing the field in your first half of the experiment would create a pulse of energy in the coil as well in case you were wondering, but there the magnetic field in the iron doesn't want to change after being aligned so it holds the field until you break the magnetic loop.
it keeps holding because the current is able to keep flowing for a few moments after removal, and like u said the red cables are the stronger side and black is weaker, dose it work with the black cables tide together ?
Is this a ferrite core? Been trying to get this effect and I can't get it to hold even though the secondary is shorted as shown.
I dont really know a lot about this, but i have an idea with the secound experiment:
When you connect the black wires to power, a magnetic field comes up generates voltage at the RED wires.
WHEN THE RED WIRES ARE CONECTED, there is a high current flow in the "red" coil. This flow maintains the magnetic field when you disconnect the battery and pulls the two parts together. (Energy gets saved)
After a while, the flow of electrons in the red coil decreases due to resistance of the coil, the magnetic field slowly disapears and (after a while) the 2 parts can not hold together.
(after you put the coils in the freezer, it did hold longer -> less resitance, longer connection!)
WHEN THE RED WIRES ARE NOT CONECTED, the magnetic field can not exist after you disconnect the battery because there is no place where high current can flow.(no current -> no magnetic field)
I Am zed from Nigeria, I experience ur procedure with addition of capacitor to both end of red wire winding and d magnetic residuals keep for long, den I conclude d system can recycle electrical energy for seconds or minute depend on capacitance of red wire winding in d system
Could it be an electrically enduced Casimir effect? It seems to prefer nice and flat matching surfaces, right?
Interesting to me is that there seems to be an upper limit as to how strong the residual locking can get. No point in energizing the coil(s) longer or harder. So it's about the materials and likely surfaces more than about power and duration of the energizing.
How do parts of various metals work, when dimensioned and surface treated identicually? Can we learn from those results?
reason i was looking at Ed's PMH's here is I was wondering if you can get a pole reading out of one of them.and does it act like a regular magnet or what? does it attract metal? magnets? great work man
My first guess would be that you are creating a form of capacitor with the 2 coils. Easy enough to test with a volt meter to see if there is residual voltage present after removing the battery. That residual voltage would be enough to maintain the electromagnet until it is used up. Just a thought...
This is an electric analog of the Bernoulli effect. The running electric charges create a low pressure or a relative vacuum in the ambient electromagnetic field of the materials causing their atoms to realign accordingly.
Is it possible this has to do with magnetic hysteresis? I know certain hard drives and other magnetic storage devices uses hysteresis to lock the magnetisation of the ferromagnetic materials, but I've never heard of it being used to lock fields as strong as those in this video.
👍🏻 Great..... sir can you share with us that how many turns did u used or what is the length of the wire
You created an LC oscillator circuit. The 2nd coil acts as a capacitor. The power flows back & forth.
the iron loop is your second closed coil :-)
it would seem that with the leads on the coil shorted the energy can not escape when battery is disconnected so the current that magnetizes the two pieces together can will hold until energy is used up
Ls,
First, the ferrite core you use is built to perform at a certain frequency.
Second, this delayed electromagnetic effect can give you time to close the primary. (wire where you put the current first).
Eric
So the shorted coil is energized by induction from the DC applied to the other coil and short coil maintains the magnetic effect until it's field collapses?
I don't really know whats it called in English, roughly translated to "remaining magnetism". When you run electricity through the coil the atoms and newtons and whatever gets aligned, that is what creates the magnetic field. If you use enough power this edisons will stay align even after you stop inputing power. So you are still left with a bit of magnetism. Kinda like when you drive your car and turn it of in the middle of the road, the car is still doing what the cars doing. You need to make it do the opposite like breaking if you want the car stop caring.
remanent magnetism might be the correct English term.
When you short the one coil, it becomes a closed loop/structure that gains energy via inductance from the primary energized coil, but quickly loses that energy once the primary coil is de-energized as a function of the charge in the secondary inducting back to the now open primary and escaping b/c the primary is open. I suspect that if you were to short the primary immediately after removing energy from it, with both coils now closed loops, it would hold magnetism for long than with one coil being open.
you don't need to keep the coil there, once its energized the metal stays together by itself, try with 6 nuts in a hexagon, run the wire through the middle, energize the wire + to - then remove it, the nuts will hold by themselves.
My thoughts (in Ed Speak) are the magnets are flowing around the core, then as all transformers do, are inducing into the fine wire - thereby bleeding off the magnets from within the core - until the two halves no longer have enough magnets flowing to hold itself together.
There is nothing really special about the E-Core, as if you wound a single coil, it would act like the PMH with indefinite hold time until the halves are forcibly separated.
I think a similar effect would be found if you took the standard U-shaped PMH, and put a second single wrapped coil on the "other" leg. Using the "charging" coil, you could lock the keeper in place with a quick charge, and if you shorted the "other" coil on the second leg, you would get the transformer action, and the individual magnets would bleed off - just as in the bifilar wound coil in your video.
Worth a try to see if you get similar results.
I think the dual could set up is acting as a cylendrical capacitor, therefore holding charge until it is completely discharged
One interesting thing I didn't see mentioned was that an electric field resists collapsing momentarily when a circuit is broken which you might understand better a bemf and is the cause of internal electromagnetic resistance in a motor. I would wager a guess as to say that the core is somehow holding that bemf as there is no external connection to a grounded circuit in which to bleed off the residual emf of the coil which would "unlock" the field.
If you look at Ed's magnetic flywheel and the coil windings around on glass bottles, he used the pmh as a magnetic capacitor in this circuit to power coral castle
residual magnetic field due to a capacitive coupling in the shorted secondary. OR a tank circuit ringing until it fades out hence it holding for a an instance. Add a 18v 2F cap and see how long it sings
How can this be applied to our existing motors, or do we need to invent a new motor that’ll work with the principles of this pmh?
i think its because of the self capacitance of the coil.
and when u freese it resistance is lower so you safe more when it goes the second round and third and so on.
since u gave it a oppertunity to flow till gone.
well it seems to make sense to me don't think it is strange. It seems to me that there is 2 magnetic fields working and one is holding the other to it. Have you tried quickly connecting the blue together once you take the ends off the battery? Maybe it will hold together if you do so.
your coil becomes a capacitor with a recycling effect the type of mettle used will improve or reduce the capacitance lengthening or shortening the time that it stays locked.
From what I understand, What I think you are observing with the soft iron is *magnetic hysteresis*, and that phenomena was used in early computers to store data. In the closed core, magnetism will either "flow" in one direction or the other, and that will lock the magnetic keeper to the horse-shoe iron. This magnetism cannot be fully removed, only reversed when another pulse of opposite polarity is applied, but in order flip the polarity of the magnetic "circuit" there has to be a moment when the transition passes through '0' magnetism, just like a car having to stop completely before going in reverse. That is why the keeper falls off then it can no longer sustain a strong magnetic field.
The reason that magnetism in the soft iron persists is because it is conductive, while the ferrite core is not. This means eddy currents cannot form in the core. Imagine the soft iron core as not only a core, but also as a shorted secondary. Looking a a cross section of it, imagine many millions of loops, rings and coils that are all conductive! The ferrite core, on the other hand, It is specifically designed not to be conductive, and so these parasitic currents cannot form as easily. The reason this matters is because when making transformers, if the core is conductive, then what happens is that the alternating magnetic flux will induce current in the core and this robs power from the primary, and it is lost as heat (since iron has a little resistance and current+resistance = heat) To eliminate that, iron and other ferromagnetic materials is made into a powder and then the power is glued and molded together so the electrical resistance is really high while maintaining a reasonable level of permeability (magnetic conductivity). By eliminating electrical currents forming in the core, all the changing magnetic flux can induce current is secondary coils and thus the transformer will be more efficient.
The reason having another coil shorted allows the magnetic hysteresis to reappear is because it simulates the cross-sectional area of the other soft iron core with infinite cross-sections being like shorted coils of wire. An electrical current is induced creating a semi-permanent magnetic field that will slowly die away as electrical resistance in the wire resists current. I bet you can stick an ammeter on that L2 coil and measure electrical current flowing for a few seconds until the effect dies away. The higher the resistance, the weaker the hysteresis and locking will be.
This is just my current understanding, I really do not have any idea or understanding of the weird and wonderful world of electromagnetism, let alone any formal education in electronics.
Very excellent read there Power Max, Thank you for writing that. I want to say that I've been reading Eds book *Magnetic Current* to gain the insight what Ed thinks and he shows us from his book *that the coil is a magnet during the time currents are made.* From what I'm picking up on is that through Mutual induction the secondary coil becomes a electromagnet which holds the core together but due to the soft iron its not able hold the magnetic bond after the created electromagnet (like the PMH), the electromagnet eventually stops working on the secondary and the soft iron core no longer is able to hold it core section together. And believe it or not but Eds points all this out in his book in his own terms of course. Here is how here put he puts it in his book *"You know the soft iron does not hold magnets, but you already have one that holds it. It is the perpetual motion holder. It illustrates the principle how permanent magnets are made. All that has to be done is to start the magnets to run in on orbit, then they will never stop."*
You have a good understanding of electromagnetism, was going to type something similar but you beat me to it. ;)
Leviathan15s Nah, I don't have any real clue whatsoever, this is just some of my ideas and current understanding, the terminology is just wikipedia stuff I found a long time ago and I learned the history of magnetic storage at the EEVblog, but thanks!
Hello. I love electrical theory, studying it as a pastime interest stemmed from my education in the electrical field. I have a couple ideas about this fascinating subject.
In regards to keeping the core magnetized longer I’d suspect the more mass on your coils would act a lot like the plates in a battery. The surface area of the plates (in this case the coil) is the what determines the amount of amps stored in the system. This is also what determines the capacitance of a capacitor.
My second insight is the core. As I’m sure you already know the type of material is more important in regards to producing magnetism than the material of windings. This is why they use soft iron in the majority of conventional transformers. They use plates covered with a film of insulators. This is to control the flux of the core and keep any interference from it and they windings separate. The flux lines from the coil will attract to the core and will attempt to make the core the same charge which will kill the magnetism.
I’d make a new coil with a coil with a single winding with more mass. The second thing I’d try and I’d bet my crappy Honda on would be insulating your core so there is no interaction between the two.
Good luck
I deduce that shorting the other coil caused a magnetic oscillation back through this circuit which would explain why you have such a short time for residual magnetism
Hi I'm making a custom door lock- I got some electromagnets from McMaster Carr that seem to do the magnetic latching when power is removed. Is there a way to modify them so this does not occur; so they disengage immediately? Thanks!!
I believe that what you're seeing with the wires connected is a transferred inductance, which doesn't occur with an open circuit
laser, are you sure you don't have ringing going on in that secondary winding?
Aren't you creating a tank circuit by "shorting" (wrong word actually, as shorting would mean you short across the coils, not that you connect the ends together)?
The coils have between them a capacitance and since they are inductors you are finding a resonance of sort, and the ring down keeps your system charged.
Put a voltmeter on it.
when you short the coil, the electric current is residing through resistance. which then keeps the magnetism. when the coil is not shorted the poles are tightly magnetized throughout the horseshoe shape. once the bar is removed the residual magnetism is counter acted by the vibrations and the strong to weak magnetic field experienced by removing the bar from the horseshoe shaped magnet.
supposedly there is a residual type voltage flow just as the contact is made and cut... the needle is observed to move only just a few millimeters but it is bankable...
the inductive power transfer between the coils happens only during changes in voltage, in this case when connecting and unconnecting the battery. So when unconnecting, the shortened coil will cause a short pulse that happens while the primary coils field is collapsing. This pulses polarity is opposite to the one of the collapsing field, preventing the magnetic loop of the outer legs from flowing trough the middle leg. Or something ^^
Have you tested to see if the stored magnet field collapses over time?
this effect is because of induction of the secondary coil. it wants to resist the reduction in the magnetic field passing it thus it creates a current to keep that until it looses its power. so till this time the core would be magnetized and it would remain locked.
you are becoming an electronics researcher/scientist. very cool, keep experimenting!
This is a well known effect in scrap yards. The lift magnets are even equipped with a "release" function where a timed reverse pulse releases the rest of the scrap metal. This is a hysteresis effect. where magnetic domains align . This is stronger in solid metal and requires energy to establish and energy is released on collapsing. As far as the coil maintaining the magnetic field, this is a maintained current in the second coil. This effect is how brush-less motors work.
Closed circuit to open circuit won't work as your video says to me,put a bulb or mm for volts and something to measure n/s maybe?
The copper coil is still retaining current, like a capacitor.?
I beleive the ushaped softiron latch is acting both as a one turn coil and a core and that is why ,like the dual coil , it will hold its magnetic feild. You should put two ushaped softiron cores inside one coil and see if they both hold the field for half as long. I beleive there mist be a cycle of one coil collapse refeeding the other coil with energy to recreate the magnetic field in the iron. It is very low loss. Perhaps like your graphite ringer circuit there is a resistive delaye to make it ring/cycle.
do you think that due to the alignment of each metal a softer ,like the u bolt test, would line up easier and the core test would need a time delay or slight residual effect to allow a better alignment to hold a harder metal in place. my thoughts are on a pulse test on a harder metal instead of a coil to hold it . if that make a difference?
It looks like you have built an electropermanent magnet. The solenoids that hold open firedoors in office highrise buildings use a similar principle. They use no static power. You only need to apply power to switch between holding and not-holding.
the movement of electrons within the coil it self does not stop when you remove the battery because it is still a complete circuit and thus will keep going until the resistance of the coil slows the electron to a stop.. kinda an upside down bike if you spin the tire it will keep going until outside forces stop it and the resistance of the wire would be like slightly pressing the brake of the tire.. the more resistance the more the coil will slow the electrons. but if you have a longer coil it will have to travel a long distance until it makes a complete circuit. the highest resistance in MOST circuits are the connectors. but in theory if you apply a shock to one coil with the other coil shorted it will hold the electromagnetism for a short while but if you shock one coil then short it out with the other coil in reverse you should be able to gain more magnetism time out of the same coils.. they say you can not create or destroy energy.. BUT they never said you cant just move the electrons within the wire. which the movement of electrons is what we call electricity.. this is why SOME of the "free" energy devices actually work. because they only apply magnetism (which is a form of energy it self) and copper (which carries electrons) and the electrons are either pushed or pulled thru the conductor.. and btw copper becomes a SUPER CONDUCTOR at extremely cold tempatures which means that at extremely low temps the copper has very low resistance. the colder it gets the lower the resistance. but just remember that each winding gives more and more magnetism out which will in turn cause electrons to move within the other coil which in turn will also create magnetism.. so the more coils you have on the secondary coil (one with power applied) the more magnetism you can push into the other coil. just my opinion tho
the same can be done with a large transformer as well the secondary coil can be shorted with a large current diode and a neon light several seconds after the coil has been energized the diode can be removed to flash the neon. you should look into quantum entanglement for the better understanding of what is going on . the resistance on the coil even several ohms will null out the effect.
heating it will make the magnetism reduce, according to Curie's law.
Does the magnetize get stronger if you have a bigger coil?
The last experiment with the coil and the transformer core is pretty simple to explane. When you energize the primary coil, and shorten the secondary coil, the secondary coil will need some time for the magnetic field in it to collapse when you remove the powersource. It is the sudden collapse of the primary coils magnetic field that induce a current in the secondary coil. It will take some time for this current to stop flowing, and therfor the two transformer cores will stick together untill the current flow has dropped sufficiently to finally release the two cores. You might experience that the cores will stick together longer if you shorten the secondary coil AFTER you supply power to the primary coil.
If you do not short the secondary coil, but place the wires close to eachother, you will probably see a spark when you remove the powersource. This spark occurs because the primary magnetic field collapses so fast, it will incuce a high voltage in the secondary coil, but almost no current - except during the duration of the spark.
Superconductive electromagnets, such as them used at CERN will maintain its magnetic field after the powersource has been removed. In that sense we can also say that normal permanent magnets are superconductive in its structure that keeps the electrons spinning in the same direction "forever".
I would think that after you put the electricity in it is re conducted by the coil to maintain the electromagnet, and with the transformer I guess it just releases the power faster because the function of a transformer is to change amounts of voltage and ampage, either way around for higher or lower and I think some is generally lost in that process when constant energy even so I think that is why.
Try tapping the secondary coil in the middle to measure the voltage going through it.
It would be really interesting if it was oscillating in some way.
It is all static energy, there is no current flow.
+1
Robert Brockway In order for this to be static an insulator would be required.
HiFiman4u
Incorrect. Were do you people learn your science from?
Robert Brockway The power flowed from the battery(current source) and when the secondary was shorted then an induced current is initiated into the iron.
Yeah you think you know something. It is the moving current in a wire after all that creates a magnetic field around that wire, basic electronics 101.
Next you'll be trying to tell me a permanent magnet is a static device?
Hi on the red wires make a figure 8 and in the cross over it may give out all voltage and loop back in joe booker explains in joe cell talks 5. Static then transformed by oscillation looping
If you rub a piece of iron across a magnet a few times it will become magnetized for a bit. What is the difference here? Isn't the coil just 'rubbing' the core a bit?
One big difference between the cores is that the soft iron allows eddy currents.
Looks like a lenz effect slowing down the seperation. Different from your soft iron
its because you have lots of copper wire coiled around something so when you connect the battery and take it of the current still flows in the copper wire so if you remove some it might not stay like that for a long time
To me the first experiment is the most interesting as it maintains the magnetic field. The second experiment, as someone noted below, it appears the coil acts like a capacitor. In the first experiment how long does the magnetic field last? It would be interesting the measure total electrical input from the battery in relation to the electro magnetic field over the holding period.
And do shorted connections not generate heat which in turns removes the magnetic effect?
wonder what would happen if you could get soft iron shaped the same way for each apparatus you are testing - then you may find out geometry might be the issue here. perhaps instead of using the other half of that transformer core use a soft iron bar with the other transformer core. Just a suggestion... like Ed said, if the coil is closed circuit the energy will circulate forever, assuming there is no electrical leakage anywhere. open the circuit and she will loose her attraction - regardless it looks like your on to something cool
I thought that the electromagnetic field stored in the coil have a place in this process and when the stored voltage are used the magnetic core fills down.
The answer appears to be very simple , lts like locking the back door and you only load and unload from the front door. some metals store magnetism and some dont. you just basically answer your own question. you told us B comes after A , but your also asking us what number comes after 1. But nevertheless you showed us something great to learn from. its seems like it can work like a capacitor for delay oscillation without a transistor... the real trick here is how your able to demagnetize the metal. its stored induction in second coil therefore keeping the hold until reverse DC is applied that acts as AC to demagnetizes.
I'm coming here so I can read your comment later. It was very insightful
my advice, research more than one video... this stuff is tricky... you start to plan before you completely know everything... but everything has learning curve... be prepared to make mistakes and before you know it , you will know 7 ways to do something
I'm not so sure about it. Normally the permanent magnets don't demagnetize, if you encircle them with wire.
@@jonathanrice6338 this sight has some very insightful people good stuff
It is the core density and the orbits the magnetism has to flow. Drop a strong magnet down a copper pipe with close to the same sized diameter.
Very very interesting. I would guess that there is some kind of induction current maintaining the field. It would make sense that the one with the second coil wouldn't last as long due to a high resistance (lower efficiency) vs the looping iron core of the single coil setup. There was a device developed during WWII called the Hans Coler Coil that may have exploited the same or similar phenomena. Researching it may provide some insight into the effect at hand. I will be looking into this and am very interested to hear an explanation!
Interesting, didnt know about that but makes sense I guess. In the second case it must be the induced current in the second coil that is holding the magnetic field. It last until the resistive losses in the coil consumes the energy. So, having more windings will give you a higher current but also a higher loss because of the increased resistance in a thinner wire. Fewer turns with a thicker wire goes in the other direction but I dont know which one is the "better".
The iron bar is more interesting. Try striking it lightly, cooling it with cold spray, heating it, adding a second magnetic field, an electromagnetic field, electrostatic field etc. and see how it effects the aligned magnetic cells. You can read a little about Barkhausen noise regarding magnetic cells although that is concerned with magnetic changes.
Really looking forward to what you can come up with there :)
Magnetism as like electricity probably holds a charge, so shorted wire means charge takes longer to escape?
TL;DR Ferrite has low hysteresis from the lower concentration of iron particles in ceramic (ferrite) and thus low residual magnetism. Yet with enough inductance the residual current is determined by Tau=L/R [Henry/Ohm] ratio in seconds defines how long the current stored in the loop will decay to 27% of the original value. That's why it doesn't last forever and typically only xx seconds. Whereas, Iron has up to 10x higher magnetic constant and stronger residual magnetism (hysteresis) until the magnetic loop of the nuts is open. Thick nuts work OK for DC but not AC due to losses.
I have a suggestion for you. Attach a second smaller coil to an oscilloscope and place it up next to the core when it is magnetically attracting itself then view the waveform and determine it's frequency. Please let me know what you discover! Thanks!!!!!
The shorted coil becomes another PMH. The magnets traveling through the core, activated by the initial charge, then activate the magnets in the shorted coil. Copper does not hold magnets like iron so it is very weak and breaks loose. If your secondary coil was made of Iron wire it would probably hold longer, maybe even....................................?
Coils do not behave like capacitors. They behave like inductors because that is what a coil is. When you remove the battery the coil tries to resist this and creates a strong negative charge at the positive terminal and a strong positive charge at the negative terminal. Ths is called the back emf. This emf will keep flowing until it eventually stops due to the losses through the wire. Therefore keepin the magnetism. The iron core helps to exaggerate this.
In the second example, the two coils act as a transformer. coil 1 inducing a voltage into coil 2. Short coil 2 which has more turns and you get a bigger back emf effect.
i think you inducted a current into the secondary winding making it keep it together due to an electromagnetic pull