I’m sure this has been mentioned in the comments, but thought I’d note anyway. The ES 2 is mid-balanced, so when the bass and treble knobs are set to 50% you’re actually creating scooped eq where the lows and highs are made louder while the mid stays fixed. To start I test the eq from 0% (that’s a flat eq response) and EQ from there. There’s also a phase switch inside the guitar that might help with the woofing sound. You might also want to adjust the pressure of the piezo element at the bridge, tone down some of the highs loosening the element (turning left). The ES2 isn’t as good as a combined mic and magnet mic pickup for example, but it can sound pretty good. Just have to read the manual.
Your ES2 system can sound a lot better. I bought a Taylor 414 with the ES2 and it sounds fantastic, especially with an IR box. Set the ALL controls on the guitar in the middle. Do not max out the volume. Use a cable
Impulse Response can basically turn any piezo pick up to a more realistic and natural acoustic sound. There're many IR for different guitars available. I just honestly think that the high end price for Taylor should at least give a pick up that can plug and play without extra gears or too much tuning.
Agreed. I have a Taylor 616ce and had to slightly (1/8 turn at a time) adjust the 3 piezo tension screws while plugged into my acoustic amp, (with all three controls in the middle), until the tone was to my liking. Also recommend re-reading the Taylor instruction manual and using a luthier if uncomfortable with the adjustment.
And the little phase switch inside can really help with feedback as well. It’s no substitute of a good mic but I find rolling way off the bass and keeping treble flat worked great for fingerpicking.
The 3 controls in the middle was an ES1 thing. I’m a pro engineer and have spent more time mixing the ES2 than almost anyone. I always start with the volume all the way up
I bought a Taylor 812ce Sept 2021 and have this exact same experience. Acoustically it is gorgeous. But when I plug it in it has two problems. The output signal is very weak even at full volume. I have another guitar with K&K pure mini pickup (which is passive) and it has WAY more signal than the Taylor with the ES2. And the second problem is just as Leon described. It sounds very harsh.... I have adjusted the pickups per Taylor's instructions and it did not fix either problem. I can adjust the parametric EQ on our board and improve the sound, but it is still less than satisfactory. I called Taylor and they didn't seem to be interested in helping beyond telling me how to adjust the pickups.... very disappointing. Your review is spot on....
I sold my Taylor 710 because the ES2 sounded terrible. Loved the guitar hated the pickup. i even put in a pure mini to replace the ES2. It still sounded like crap plugged in no matter how I EQd it. I used the baggs venue di and still dissapointed. Finally sold it and bought a martin hd28 and put in a KnK trinity pro. Couldn’t be happier
Totally agree about the ES2 system. I bought a Taylor 714CE FLTD 2014 Sassafras. Beautiful guitar, looks and sound great until plugged in. I'd previously used Takamine 1980's EN10C, EN18C Stereo on stage, never a problem with sound on stage with the Palathetic pick ups, but the Taylor was too harsh, not nice at all. I lasted a couple of weeks until I had an LR Bags Anthem system added which is spot on when on stage. Taylor, during a set up a few years ago upgraded the ES2 to a newer version, which was less harsh, but I still just use the Anthem system..
I have a $3500 Rosewood Dreadnaught Taylor acoustic with the ES-1. The best results I’ve gotten is from setting the low and high knobs all the way to 0 and the gain all the way to 10. Then, dial it in with the mixer. I will say, it is great this way for finger-style acoustic because all the magnets pick up the tone of your hand. Your mixer has to has some pretty drastic Low Cut. Don’t be afraid to get away from the middle settings on the guitar and mixer… lastly, yeah it’s a pain in the ass. 😅
Your video is spot on. I’ve owned a Taylor 314 since 1999 with the old fishhman pick up system. The frets were wearing out so I decided to buy another Taylor last year. So I bought the Koa 224ce. At home in a low-volume area it sounds pretty good plugged in direct to a K10. The same as you, as soon as I have to turn it up low end feedback and really harsh mids. I get the best sound from it when I keep the volume halfway and I don’t run it through any pedals. I use the Fishman platinum pro as a preamp. I also find that when I use my Mackie mixer or my Allen and Heath mixer, it also sounds hash. It plays great and sounds great when it is not plugged in. So I ended up getting the frets replaced on my old 1999 314 CE. I went back to using that guitar live because it still sounds great with its Fishman pick up and plays amazing. I keep the Koa at home for unplugged playing. The only thing I can think of is the people designing this at Taylor are not gigging musicians. I might replace the ES2 with a Fishman pick up.
I am so glad I saw this video. I actually wrote to Taylor about it. I have my Taylor guitar over three years and paid €1750.00 for it. I cannot use it for a full live gig. It is a lovely guitar to play acoustic. I have tried it through various PA systems and pedals and it just so sharp, even playing with other band members I can't get it to sound right plugged in. I use it as a spare guitar on stage or to play some lead pieces if someone is singing a slow ballad. It feels like it is an electric guitar pickup in an acoustic guitar, with no body or quality to the sound. I am either going to sel it or replace the pickup.
A few days ago I got my first ever Taylor (it's s GS mini) and it took me many hours over the past days to adjust the ES2 properly. I also play lighter strings so I had to do quite the setup. But I absolutely love the sound coming out of my amp. It sounds so much more natural than my other guitars with standard under saddle piezo pickups. The pickup in your guitar isn't supposed to sound like that. It sounds like it's set up way too tight, so the piezo elements get compressed too much and the sound they produce is very aggressive and harsh and the signal they put out to the internal preamp is too hot and it can't handle it very well. First make sure all pots on the preamp are set in the middle (where you feel the slight detent) and that the EQ of your amp is set neutral. Then take a fitting allen wrench and loosen the adjustment screws until you barely hear a signal coming out of your amp. Then tighten them very slightly, one at a time until you get a decent sound and the strings are balanced to your liking. This process can take quite some time. You should invest that time, because you don't have to do this often. Maybe if you change string gauge, I don't know, maybe it can stay the way you set it up forever. After that you can adjust the EQ on the guitar and remember the setting (maybe use little pieces of tape to mark it, because there's no scale around the nobs). And then you can finally do the fine tuning on your amp and you have the best possible sounding ES2. The ES2 isn't perfect, but I never heard a pickup system that really reproduces the sound of the guitar perfectly. But it surely can sound so much better than what you demonstrated in this video.
I get the same sound if I turn the guitar volume all the way up, so I don't do that, actually turn it to less than half and it warms right up. It works as designed. You're treating it like a mic'ed acoustic, which is not at all what it is designed to be, if you wanted to mic it you can do that with a mic. It's called an expression system bc of the wide range of tones you can get out of it. Treat it more like an electric than a mic'ed acoustic. Running mine through a marshall tube and getting great warm sounds on clean channel adjusting gain and volume. I've got a deep switch on my amp and it really likes that, whereas electric sounds better without it. Also running it through a reverb box is great and cuts out some of the chimieness. There's a phase switch on the circuit board designed to deal with the feedback issue. And the pickup tubes are adjustable, yours might need loosened up a bit. It's really a very versatile system, just need to get used to it like an electric humbuckers vs single coils etc and find your personal repeatable sound settings or emulate other acoustic sounds with it.
I had several Taylor's now only have a 114 without electronics or a cutout. Went to Gibson and never regretted it. Just got my first Martin. The electronics was part of the reason for the switch
It could be a phase polarity issue, Have you tried using the phase inversion polarity button? It's located in the sound hole on the pickup electronics. System. Should be able to reach it with your hand through the sound hole.
I use to gig with Taylors. I have since switched to the Godin A6 which gives me the best of both worlds from acoustic to electric. My first Taylor had the ES1 in it and I actually liked it. The typical venues I play are small crowded bars with a lot of people, so the ambient noise levels are high with people talking and laughing. I decided to upgrade to the ES2 and I found I was never happy with the sound after that. Even after swapping out ES2 pre amps. I could always dial it in when the bar was quiet but once the room filled up It was too boomy or I had to cut the bass to have it cut through then I hated the tone. This is what prompted me to switch to a hybrid. I still have 2 Taylors in my collection, but they stay home. Just not a fan of the ES2. And yes I have tried all kinds of pedals and this was being plugged into a BOSE tower. I have an $800 Washburn that sounds better plugged in than my expensive Taylors. But I found my stage guitar, the Godin is great!
I purchased a used 324ce last month in mint condition from a guy in Maine for 1500!!! The ES2 was harsh, tinny, lifeless. I noticed the strings the previous guy had were lights. I bumped them up to mediums and had it properly set up. Instant tonal difference plugged in...and I found even better tones actually came from running it into a tc helicon play acoustic! Its not a hopeless system...you just have to tweak it a bit. I haven't touched the pickup sensors at all. They are still factory set.
That 'harsh' sound was driving me nuts on my factory set 324ce builders edition . . . until I adjusted the pickup using a .050 allen key as per factory recommendations. The ES2 system is quieter plugged in than other acoustic guitars that I have but the craftsmanship and playability makes it my go to for home.
I was having problems and took my 314ce back to shop. I tried several guitars of similar price and my taylor easily sounded the best with all the controls in the middle. I did however change from finger strumming to a pick which gives it a much better sound. I use it for gigging with these settings and sounds great. I turn the volume up slightly if I'm finger picking however I'm going to start increasing the volume via my pa instead.
I agree that the ES2 does need some work to get a good sound out of it. My 310ce was retro fitted with ES2 by Taylor in Holland, and when it came back it was hugely different to the old system. I worked with a sound engineer, and what we started with were the saddles themselves. We backed them right off so we had no sound at all, then adjusted them gradually until we got a balanced sound across the range. There was a trace of that D feedback, but we backed the middle saddle of a touch which got rid of it. I agree with others about running it flat out - I run the tones flat (bass down a bit maybe), and volume just over half. I use an AER amp flat on eq, but channel gain high till the peak light lights up, and master volume on about 2. I’ve never di’d it into a desk, so can’t comment on that……
Sounds like you are having to do a lot of work and spend even more on a tech and outboard gear to get it to sound ok. There are lots of significantly less expensive guitars that sound way better without any effort or extra gear. It's time Taylor upped their game on the electronics.
Now a week later, i've installed the MiSi Align XT on my guitar. And you know what?: I could not believe my ears when I herd it for the first time. I was flabbergasted. What a sound! All my problems solved by this L.R.Baggs undersaddle pickup! Thamks to the guys at Alphnaar Muziek at Haarlem, The Netherlands. Marcel did a great job!
Hi Toon Do they still build in the MISI Align XT in taylor guitars at Alphenaar? I'm from holland and have a great sounding (unplugged) Taylor 712CE but plugged in i don't like the sound. I have a Martin OMCPE4 and the sound plugged in is great....would love to hear that on my Taylor. On the webste from Alphenaar I can not find anything about the MSI Align XT. Can you maybe put a sound test here on youtube with the new system on your Taylor? Regards Ad
@@bluescape10 Hallo Ad,. De gitaartechnicus Marcel Husting maakte mij hier op attent. Ik kon ook geen geluidsvoorbeelden vinden hier op UA-cam maar ik vertrouw hem met gitaren. Het geluid is prachtig vergeleken met het geluid wat eerst versterkt uit mijn Taylorgitaar kwam. Je mag het wel een keer komen luisteren hoor bij mij thuis.
@@toonhollanders4156 Hoi Toon bedankt voor je snelle reactie. Ik woon zelf in Den Bosch. Kon op de site niks terug vinden maar ik begrijp dat ze het systeem wel inbouwen en bij jou recent gedaan. Wat zijn de kosten ongeveer als ik vragen mag.
@@bluescape10 Het systeem zelf kost €239,-- Ik was in totaal 360 kwijt. Ik woon in Bergen nh. Ik ben er van overtuigd dat er in de buurt van den Bosch ook prima gitaarwinkels zijn. Marcel Hustings onderhoud ook de gitaren van Harry Sacksioni dat zegt toch ook wel iets. Op internet is informatie iver het MiSi systeem van L.R.Baggs te vinden. Je hebt ook geen batterijen meer nodig. Je moet je gitaar 1 minuut opladen (oplader wordt bijgeleverd) en dan kun je 8 uur spelen.
The volume does not need to be full up at all and in fact it should be maybe centre to 3/4 up and use a preamp amd IR's afterwards with some reverb. I honestly think most people expect an acoustic plugged in to sound great and dialed in with nothing for gain or tone shaping. You can also adjust and balance the 3 pickup pieces with a small Allen key to balance the string output. If you think about this, an electric guitar needs the pickup heights adjusted, preamp gain setup and EQ shaped to get a decent basic tone and then add some light effects for ambience. If you follow the same kind of steps for your Taylor acoustic you will enjoy the sound much more. I absolutely love my 214ce plugged in because I did all of these things to achieve a great sound. It's like the difference between 1950's Chuck Berry and new Joe Satriani soundwise. Processing matters.
I have a 2011 3 series Grand Symph with the ES1, sounds incredible, especially now that there are some serious road miles on it. I have another 3 series, 2017 LTD that came with the ES2. I tried & tried to love this guitar & I did when it was unplugged. But plugged in it sounded like it was under water. It was just so bad. I couldn't even gig with it because of how shitty it sounded next to my other stage guitar. This past summer I finnaly got fed up with having this beautiful, expensive, honey sunburst LTD, gorgeous sounding guitar that I couldn't even take on a stage. This past summer I had it gutted, stripped the ES2 out & replaced it with the K&K Trinity (think LR Baggs Anthem multi source pickup but made by K&K) & it's like a brand new guitar. It's wild because when it had the ES2 in it I took that thing to every luthier in my city, had it set up & tweaked in every imaginable way, nothing made a true difference in the quacky, tinny, washy tone that was coming from the pickup system. Now I will say this, I have friends who have ES2's that don't sound anywhere close to as bad as mine sounded so maybe it could've been a lemon from the jump...or maybe that's just how individual & finicky solid wood guitars are with electronics.
My Taylor 814ce ES1 pickup new in 2006. Distorted sound early on so they replaced the system. Never happy with the metallic b string overpowering the tone. Fishman Aura Spectrum and Baggs Para DI couldn't fix it. I scrapped the ES1 and installed a JJB system, similar to K&K. Now I can play live and EQ properly. Best thing I have done to improve the Taylor. The Aura Spectrum and Baggs Para DI only sweetens the pot.
Yep, agree about the ES2 system and harsh is an excellent way to describe it. I must be honest, I only ever mic my guitars so haven't played in a live/gig environment using the onboard ES2 system. For reference it would be interesting to hear your views on other acoustic onboard pick-ups.
I had a Taylor 514ce with ES1 in it and sounded decent. I purchased a Taylor 814ce with the ES2 and it sounded horrible for so long.. I could not figure out why it sounded so bad no matter what I did to it. Acoustic sounded amazing but the ES2 is horrible. I ended up replacing it with a L.R. Baggs Anthem pickuo system and now it just sounds so amazing.
Thank you! This is what I'm researching for my 324ce. Can you tell me who installed it for you? I want someone experienced with installing in a Taylor with the ES system. Mie's an ES2.
@@WrshipGuitar The jack seems to be the issue as my ES2 has the jack and battery together in a unit. I've read comments suggesting a new hole needs to be drilled. Did you have to drill a new hole?
I returned a nearly $5000 Taylor I was really excited about 2 days ago. I watched a ton of videos and spent a ton of time trying to get it right, but 1 set in a bar was enough for me to never look back. Went home during 1st break to get my normal gigging acoustic. Really sad the ES system is like it is because these are beautiful guitars.
You are correct. I have No idea why Taylor is choosing to Die on this hill. They have fantastic guitars that have crappy pickups installed. This is a company that needs to swallow its pride and say "We are sorry folks. We thought we were on to something but it turns out we where just chasing our own tail. These are absolutely not good sounding pickups". LR baggs and Fishman have been doing it for many years and know what they are doing. It's insulting for Bob Taylor to come along and try to buy his way into a market that was hard earned by the for mentioned companies. And then, after huge amounts of negative feedback, look us in the eye and say that they are great pickups. The proof is when you stand in a crowed bar or night club and plug them in. They sound distant and completely cold and boxy with a brash high end and a dull low end. You can make them sound okay but it takes several steps/pedals to do it and nobody should have to work that hard to get up to "okay sounding". I'll never understand it.
Total agree. I play my Taylor 314 plugged in with inears, alot of work to dial in an ok sound. I recently started running to an amp in backroom and miced it with a Sure, sounds much better. All that said I've fallen for the sound of a Martin D12e plugged in, with its fishman pickup its lows and sparkly highs are amazing. My biggest complaint here on youtube, ever joe demos all these guitars with their $2000 mic, not letting anyone hear the guitars real sound for live performers. Thanks for the video!
My Taylor with the ES2 system far surpasses any under saddle system I have ever used. The only better sound is with a mic. You are playing out of Phase, there is a switch inside the guitar that can fix that. The Taylor has ACTIVE eq controls, once you fix the phase it is easy to dial in. Never max your volume on any acoustic setup. You will clip, causing further distortion. Also adjust elements behind the saddle. Once you get it dialed in, it is a great system.
This is exactly my experience (914ce 2022) I have set the sensitivity of the “Behind The Bridge” piezo PUs as follows: E+A string and B+E string to approx. MAX minus 180° counterclockwise rotation D+G string to MAX minus 240° counterclockwise rotation. Sensitivity of the PUs and volume at 100% is not advisable! I also installed a Fishman Rare Earth Blend in the Taylor for comparison: the ES2 wins by far!
Well, I would suggest “never” playing with your pre+amp in the guitar turned up all the way 😳 use the power of your amp or board and never turn the guitar preamp up more than half way. That’s the advice I had from a sound man…👍
I was wondering about this when he said he was running his preamp volume full up. If it’s like their ES1 system, there should be a center detent for optimal line level. Turning it past that all the way could possibly be overworking it, which is maybe why it sounds so compressed and lifeless here.
Man, your video is spot on! I chose a Taylor 314ce based on youtube videos BUT they were recorded via mics and not plugged... big mistake! The guitar is astonishing but I wanted to use it for small gigs with guitar and vocal... however every problem you've mentioned - I've experienced... and now I don't know what to do... I like the guitar, it sounds acoustically awesome, but just sucks for live gigs... Maybe I should try Martin or Gibson or if you know a good ES2 replacement?
Is it possible Taylor have improved the ES2 since? I have just had one installed on my Taylor (ungraded from the ES1) and it sounds great, very rich and warm, nothing like in this vid. I am playing it mostly through my aer amp.
Spot on Lee. I have EQ'd a few on open mic nights and the feedback was an issue as had to try and crank bottom end to get a full sound and as you say 'it just takes off'. Comparing to the Faith I have it was night and day difference !
Absolutely spot-on. I thought this was just a problem with MY guitar because it sounded fine for the first few months, and then it developed a booming low-end feedback that could not be EQ’d out. It was unusable at open mics. I thought maybe the precise fitment of the transducers inside the three holes in the bridge had somehow changed. Anyway, I like the guitar so I convinced Taylor to send me their cheaper EST system - it’s just a basic under saddle transducer that uses a preamp that’s similar to the ES2. Now it just sounds like any other guitar with a UST, which is okay but not great. Like another commenter here I bought a Godin A6 hybrid which is now my go-to guitar for playing out.
Thanks for this video - not just me that thinks this then! I do a lot of loud acoustic gigs with an acoustic rock covers band - I use a Bose S1 Pro as an amp with a di into the pa (if required). I actually have a 2003 Taylor 310 which has the pre expression Fishman system in it - and it sounds fantastic. Slightly piezo-y, but very dynamic and just the right sound and feel for what I do. However I also had a 414e and still have a GSe mini - and both sounded awful plugged in. The 414 was especially disappointing as it wasn’t exactly cheap - it had a very boxy mid range sound overall and needed a lot of eq from a very expensive preamp to make it sound halfway decent. i sold it eventually. I still have the gs mini but that has the same issue - very nasty mid range, boxy sound and tbh not fit for gigging. I’ve spoken to Taylor about this and they were decent enough to replace the preamp, but although it’s an improvement, it still doesn’t cut it live - therefore, my otherwise awesome Taylor mini really just sits in the house, whilst a cheap Yamaha goes out as a backup all the time. We can only hope they get their pickup act together soon.
Bonjour. Même problème sur ma Taylor 110e ! Je croyais que c'était uniquement à cause de ma guitare ou parce que j étais trop exigeant ! Merci de cet essai.
Thanks for that! I was looking here to find some explanation for the crap sound of a friend‘s Taylor 314ce when plugged. And you confirmed my concerns about the reason being… Honestly, shame on Taylor for that poor System.
Thank you so much for this honest opinion. Looking for a guitar for live performance with a church. That sound just wont do... Is there a brand that does better? Maybe Martin with Fishman MX-T or Gibson?
I now use a Faith and Crafter but run through an impulse response. Any bog standard under saddle Piezo sounds great doing this. Otherwise. The best sounding guitars I come across are the higher end Takaminies.
apparently that is by design. You can fine tune your pickups. There is a phase switch on the inside and pickup adjustments on the saddle - 3 of them. seems like a lot of work lol
I wanted to buy Taylor, but after all, I decided to buy Takamine (made in Japan) guitar. One of the reason was the pickup system. I also own Gibson with LR Baggs Anthem which is awesome! But Takamine palathetic pickup and preamp (Japanese models, not G-series made in China) are probably one of the best system for live performance. Just google how many people complaining about ES2 compare to Takamine electronics or LR Baggs Anthem. That is poor for Taylor because they produce really nice guitars.
Hey Leon! Thanks for the demo, I've been considering a 514ce to go along with my Maton SRS808 (which I love) but the pickup system does worry me. I like having some mic in my tone (solo fingerstyle) but a good pickup doesn't always require it. Question, aren't the piezo elements adjustable to fine tune the volume balance? Just curious if that would help resolve your DI tone, which I agree, is garbage. Thanks!
I gigged playing instrumental with a GC8 with a LR Baggs Anthem for a few years and it was pretty good direct and really good through an acoustic oriented pedal board with preamp. I then started using a 12fret cedar/mahogany with ES1.3. The ES 1.3 really needs a TRS cable to transformer intro instrument level for optimum signal and tone. It worked but like you said needed a good preamp. However, it very quickly developed a common ground noise that was very problematic. I love Taylor guitars acoustic tone and feel, but doubt I will ever buy another of their guitars with the propriety pickups.
Yes, from my experience from my recently purchased Taylor 612CE (a fantastic guitar acoustically) sounds really harsh through the ES2 pickup system. Its like there is a peaky frequency in the upper mids the make every finger-squeak sound horrendously loud. I have to turn the treble control all the way down just to get a usable sound. The odd thing is that my older Taylor (that uses the Fishman pickup system with under-saddle piezo and mic combination) sounds much more natural, and gives you more control over the EQ. So I feel like Taylor really missed the mark on their ES2 pickup system that should compliment the sound of the guitar. Instead, I'm left with an extremely harsh sounding instrument that does not represent what the guitar sounds like acoustically. I may be needing to look at replacing the pickup with a LR Baggs Anthem or something similar.
Wow, finally someone that has the finger-squeak issue! I thought it was just my ES2. It's super annoying, neverr had that happen on any other guitar. It's frustrating to have just spent $1600 on a new AD17e to have this be an issue. I spent all this money to never worry about the quality of the guitar, both sound and build. Guitar is fantastic unplugged, but I do weekend gigs in a duo and needed this to not be an issue. Did you find a solution?
I'm glad I found this video. I was (until viewing this vid) considering a used Taylor 312ce. A 12 fret guitar w/ ES2 for the purpose of playing gigs. I like the idea of a smaller 12 fret for gigging. If that's what it's going to sound like...NO THANKS. My current main gigger is a Larrivee OM with an Anthem. Best plugged in tone I've ever had. I don't know how much is the Larrivee and how much is the Anthem. Just toss a compressor pedal in front and I'm good to go. Looks like I dodged a bullet.
Same issue here, so my first Taylor was a 315ce, love it still have it still play it sounds great plugged in. Two years ago i bought the K24ce sounds amazing until you plug it in. So I sold it, got a 814ce v-class, arm-rest… sounds amazing until you plug it in, so I hot rid of that one too, and im still using my 2004 315cev
Late to the party but... (1) If you're pegging your volume from the guitar to full, this is one of your problems. Volume should be dialed in from the monitors then you can adjust your volume from the guitar's midpoint for a bit more or a bit less. Full on from the guitar is over saturation, it's acoustic with a box resonating string vibrations which is a mix of multiple frequencies bouncing round inside the acoustic. When volume is turned full on you're taking ll those resonances into feedback mode thus they cancel each other out & we then hear a cacophonous melange. It's not a Stratocaster & volume should not be turned to 11. (2) The detent @ mid range of Bass & Treble on the ES2 is where you'd begin to adjust but not before you adjust the EQ on the monitors.. The sound out of the stage monitors being wht the audience hers should be dialed in 1st than the musician adjusts their parameters.. If you're assessing your tonality output of these ES2 systems in the same manner as assessing the Stratocaster with the Pro Junior amp turn up to max. its never going to work / sound good. Piezo under the saddle in an acoustic chamber require a very different porch from the solid body guitar with vibrating strings disrupting the electro magnetic field of the pickup.. In much the same way my acoustic amps do not work with my Stratocasters or my Pro Junior amps dont work for my acoustics.. Experiment with the ES2 it does work very well... Its definitely not the Ovation plastic sound.
I have owned Taylor a 414CE and 814CE. Loved the acoustic sound but always hated the sound through the PA/Amp. Being stubborn i decided to trade up and bought a new $5,500 Taylor Builders Edition K14CE, hoping that a more expensive guitar would certainly sound better. Wrong. All of them had the ES2 and yes Leon. The sounds is horrible. I was complete shocked to hear you describe the D freq feedback. I truly thought there was just something wrong with my guitar. The question is.. do I replace the ES2 with an LR Baggs Anthem or HIFI and will this fix the sound problem? Or say goodbye to Taylor forever?
Honestly... Unless there is a mic involved the plugged in tone has very little to do with the price of the guitar. If you like Taylor then buy a less expensive one and upgrade the pickup. Or. What I have found works amazing. Is use a fairly basic fishman under saddle pickup and a multi FX with an impulse response. HX Stomp works great and still waaaaaaay under 5k with a decent guitar.
I have a Taylor 214CE DLX with the ES-2 system. I NEVER got a proper sound out of it when I run this guitar through a AER compact 60 amp. There is that sharp snappy sound when I play the D and de B string. Even on this video you can hear it. The must be more players who have to deal with this problem. The guitar itself is great but can't use it on stage.
Spot on video. It's beyond me why Taylor is stuck on using their ES2 systems when there are so many superior options. I keep expecting to learn that a Taylor executive lost a bet or a card game and part of the deal and that's why.
I’ve heard that same guitar sound fantastic through a similar single speaker live setup. So much so that I had to investigate what the player was using because it was so much better than my old Fishman Classic 4 under saddle piezo. But I’ve also heard a lot of horror stories so I don’t know what to think without playing one through my own rig. I recently solved a problem with my Fishman by switching to a lithium battery. I had been using a rechargeable battery and getting a similar splatty clipped sound like you’re getting. Turns out rechargeable batteries don’t put out a full 9 volts. So maybe your battery isn’t providing enough power?
I tried everything to get a good sound from the ES2 in my K14ce. 4-band-eq, compressor, nothing worked. Then I swapped to a MISI system. Probably not the most natural sounding system but it „cuts through“ when soloing.
My Expression 2 pickup system does not sound that way. Because it's a behind the saddle pickup (BEHIND not under saddle like a UST) you have to be really careful or you can damage it even when just doing a routine string change, there also seems to be a rather high defect rate on these... This is an unlisted video as the song is incomplete, but you can hear what mine sounds like. I have a condenser portable TASCAM recorder placed about 2 feet from the Fishman Loudbox Mini speaker recording this, so what you're hearing is coming out of the amp. It's an Expression 2 plugged direct into the Fishman Loudbox EQ on the amp is flat. Taylor model is a 217e ua-cam.com/video/fSW7aoznyvE/v-deo.html
Totally agree and it's ridiculous that you can't buy Talylor without this system, all the EQ in this world combined can't save the sound, believe me I've tried and it just sounds terrible - if you take a guitar with LR Baggs Anthem system then the angels starts sing again
I have a 324ce BE with the ES2. The high pitch is harsh when plugged in and has been driving me nuts! I bought a Boss EQ pedal that provides boost which helps the volume problem, but I have to step down on the treble with the EQ settings which just takes away from a clean sound! The biggest question I have is installing the jack. Since the ES2 has the battery and jack built together in a single unit, that unit apparently needs to either be rewired for the baggs or a new hole needs to be drilled. I have read many of the previous comments but there seems to be little discussion on the installation, especially with the jack replacement. What is the best way to install the jack with the ES2 system?
I have one of those in another guitar. It's passive so needs a preamp. Quite dynamic but a little crisp on the low end. Honestly. The best results I have ever got were from a basic fishman or shadow under saddle with a stock preamp but run through an impulse response loaded into a multi effects unit.
Purchased a 414ce a few months ago and have serious buyers remorse. Can not get a useable plugged in sound no matter how i eq it. Seriously thinking about dumping it and trying to recover most of my 2700 and pulling my Epiphone DRM500mce refitted with a K and K pure mini out of the closet which sounds 1000 time better with minimal eq. More expensive is not always better. Some brands have a Brand Name tax on them that far exceeds the actual value. Taylor is one of them. At the price, it should be a plug and play not requiring someone with a degree in sound engineering just to get a barely passible result.....
Pickup system is to tight happens when you change the strings and don't adjust the system correct ? if you haven't much experience at that system.you over tighten the discs the need to be much looser. I can hear the quack from the peiso pickup it like you have the strings over the top of the Mike call Taylor if they have some instructions on line this system is so powerfull it easy to go over board I have over 50 years experience and it through me a curve first string change good luck
Taylor sucks , my Yamaha FSX 720 SC has a preamp ,3 band graphic EQ , master volume ,adjustable mid freq. band and a built in chromatic tuner w/ auto shut off , all this for 450 dollars . The guitar kicks ass !
According to me ES2 pick-up system is best. Because it cuts through the mix in a whole band environment. Other pick-up systems gets drowned and don't get feedback. The reason why you feel harsh is that you didn't set up the EQ properly. If EQ is set properly, then taylor is best
Maybe Taylor's R&D department should recommend the type or brand of acoustic amp to use, better yet, they must create their own acoustic amps tailored to their guitars to correct the issues of microphoning, equalizing and amplifying problems...
I had for a couple of day a Baby Taylor BT-2e, with a complete new sound system. That sounded great compared to the ES-2 system. The shop where Iv had it from called it a Taylor piezo system. But in the description in the Taylor website they mention only the ES-2 system while it is a complete different sysem the use on the Baby Taylor BT-2e.
I concur. Spot on. I ditched the expression 2 quickly and installed a Baggs Anthem that I took off my former gigging guitar and have been using the Taylor 814ce live since 2018. Recently I have been contemplating returning to the ES2 because I currently do not have the use of the volume and tone knobs but you talked me to my senses.
i bought the taylor 324ce builders edition for £3500. without doubt the most gorgeous looking semi ive ever had the pleasure of playing. the build quality was incredible. i was so so happy. then....i plugged it in. the sound was the worst sound ive ever heard from any guitar. harsh, brittle and completely unplayable. i spent hours trying to dial in a decent eq on my desk and amp. in the end, i had to return it. why would taylor make such an incredible instrument,only for it to be unplayable when you plug it in?? someone in their design team needs fired. i got my money back and bought the new martin sc13e special. this guitar is the easiest playing and best sounding guitar around. if i had the cash, id buy another lol
Yep. The ES 2 sucks. I bought a 324ce Builders Edition. Love it unplugged. Totally sucked plugged in. It’s harsh and my j45 with a bags pickup blows it out of the water.
I cannot speak to the ES2 on how good it is, but I will tell you what I notice in my own research. Two points I'd make, which are fact and opinion; you would be hard pressed to find a Taylor that does not have some version of their own pickup systems anywhere online. I'm taking anywhere, new and used. This is crazy! They just pop them out from the factory ready to go, even in the 8-900 series! The dissatisfaction with this system online is kind of mind blowing, especially that Taylor seems to double down in defending it rather than listen to the customer complaints. I mean, I intentionally AVOIDED any Taylor with an ES anything. These systems just don't sound that great, and certainly not anything I'd want in in a $1K or higher guitar! Why not partner with Fishman, or LR Baggs? Again, it just kind of blows my mind. You would think Taylor would be listening In my opinion, they don't sound that great, and that is why I purchased my first Taylor without electronics (also saved me some cash). Even when people tweak the EQ, run them through IRs, fancy pedals....it doesn't matter, there is nothing that wows me about any piezo tone where sound in generated from compressing piezo elements (so my criticism isn't even directed only to Taylor). If one must go piezo, I recommend something that is not IN the bridge, and definitely not compressed directly under the saddle. Go for a sound board transducer like the K&K, JJB 330 Prestige, or LR Baggs HiFi. Otherwise, mic your guitar or use a sound hole magnetic pickup (although I've tried a few and don't like the tone of them at all personally). The best sounding pros are using a dual-source system anyway, so even they know that there are sever limitations to piezo pickups- just sayin'.
My 2011 210e is decent sounding for pub gigs with its ES pickup system. But by comparison, the 2018 BT2e and 2020 GS Mini-e - both with the ES-B system, an entirely different beast - sound absolutely horrendous. They just sound dull and honky next to the plugged in 210. I even installed a LR Baggs M1 passive pickup in my GS mini to see if I could polish a turd, so to speak. And it didn't really make much of a difference. So, I assume a large part of why the 210e sounds better it's because of the larger guitar body/sound chamber as opposed to the smaller GS Mini and travel sized BT
Something is wrong with that Pickup, i agree my lrbaggs anthem sl sounds amazing even in my cheap AMI but something is wrong with that expression system
It’s not just the ES2. I have an older Taylor with the ES1 system. It’s got an annoying, honky mid range thing that other plug-in acoustics don’t have.
I totally agree! With the Price of midgrade Taylor (I recently spent 2700 on a new Taylor 414CE from Sweetwater and I am incredibly disappointed with the sound of the ES2 system. For that that kind of money it should sound great without having to spend a bunch of time with plugins or units to make it sound presentable (much less great). I owned a '90s Taylor with a Fishman setup that sounded way better! Very disapointed!
Couldn’t disagree more. I have 310ce w an ES2 and it sounds incredible. Most natural sounding pickup I’ve heard. Also I have a line array PA and don’t have feedback problems
I just got mine and it plays and sounds amazing....but plugged in its terrible not as bad as yours. Mine is a different issue its very squeaky when picking, string noise. I think your ES2 is broke mine does not sound nearly as bad as yours.
Here's how to tame the ES system; tear it out. While I use Taylor 6/12 string guitars faithfully; no amount of 'selling' will convince me that the ES system is worthy of anything, except tearing out of the guitar-and putting in a Fishman Prefix or Blender. Oh, you get the 'quacking sound' with the cheap ES system on their 12 strings. Taylor pickups suck on their 12 strings. Drop a Fishman Prefix Pro or Blender into it. Taylor stopped selling their guitars with 'Fishman systems', to cut costs and sell more guitars. The six's are barely tolerable with their ES pickups-but their 12 strings sound like garbage. Don't let ANYONE, including Taylor tell you otherwise. Doubt me? Go find an early 2000's Taylor 12(And six,)-and plug it into a p.a. system. (Not a guitar amp.) My 2004 855 sounds amazing, so why have a cheap, 'it'll do' pickup in it...Taylor sold out with the public; by dumping the Fishman systems, and pushing these horrible-sounding ES toys.
I have to agree with you 100%. They are especially weak if you are trying to get an acoustic guitar solo to cut through the mix. I’ve tried just about everything and haven’t managed find any sweet spot for soloing. Can you say WIMPY?
Hi Leon. Thanks for this demo, but I've never heard such a crappy sound with an ES2 system! I have a Taylor 327e, and even though the ES2 is not as good as a good mic in front of the guitar (but is there such a thing??! 🙂 ), I think it is a very good plug'n'play system for live sessions. Perhaps not the best, but one of the best ! I can compare it with the LrBaggs Anthem (which is known as one of the best systems for acoustic guitar) which is mounted on my other acoustic guitar (A Norman), and I can say that the ES2 does the job as well as the LrBaggs. It's true that the output of the ES2 is lower than other systems, but it's not an issue, you just have to adjust P.A level. And if I compare with other systems with just a classic piezo, ES2 is much better to my ears... I gig with it for 4 month now, never had a problem with my sound and the sound engineer 🙂 Perhaps because the preamp Volume is turned all the way up ?
Sounds horribly thin when miced. Mic placement is poor. For the pickup it is not recommended to use the volume all the way up. Set it at mid and then EQ and shape and boost using whatever it it that you are plugging into.
I’m sure this has been mentioned in the comments, but thought I’d note anyway. The ES 2 is mid-balanced, so when the bass and treble knobs are set to 50% you’re actually creating scooped eq where the lows and highs are made louder while the mid stays fixed. To start I test the eq from 0% (that’s a flat eq response) and EQ from there.
There’s also a phase switch inside the guitar that might help with the woofing sound.
You might also want to adjust the pressure of the piezo element at the bridge, tone down some of the highs loosening the element (turning left).
The ES2 isn’t as good as a combined mic and magnet mic pickup for example, but it can sound pretty good. Just have to read the manual.
Thanks for your "How to setup Expression System 2 pickup" video on your channel 👍
Your ES2 system can sound a lot better. I bought a Taylor 414 with the ES2 and it sounds fantastic, especially with an IR box. Set the ALL controls on the guitar in the middle. Do not max out the volume. Use a cable
Good advice. I have read the same. Question: IR devices - I think there is a direct and indirect version or something similar?
Impulse Response can basically turn any piezo pick up to a more realistic and natural acoustic sound. There're many IR for different guitars available. I just honestly think that the high end price for Taylor should at least give a pick up that can plug and play without extra gears or too much tuning.
Agreed. I have a Taylor 616ce and had to slightly (1/8 turn at a time) adjust the 3 piezo tension screws while plugged into my acoustic amp, (with all three controls in the middle), until the tone was to my liking. Also recommend re-reading the Taylor instruction manual and using a luthier if uncomfortable with the adjustment.
No; it cannot sound any better. it's substandard and crappy sounding.
Never set the volume to max. Start out with all 3 controls in the middle then make small adjustments to hone the sound.
And the little phase switch inside can really help with feedback as well. It’s no substitute of a good mic but I find rolling way off the bass and keeping treble flat worked great for fingerpicking.
The 3 controls in the middle was an ES1 thing. I’m a pro engineer and have spent more time mixing the ES2 than almost anyone. I always start with the volume all the way up
Same problem here. Horrible! Taylor really needs to render this! Spend 2 grand on a guitar and is unplayable plugged in is just unacceptable!
I bought a Taylor 812ce Sept 2021 and have this exact same experience. Acoustically it is gorgeous. But when I
plug it in it has two problems. The output signal is very weak even at full volume. I have another guitar with K&K pure
mini pickup (which is passive) and it has WAY more signal than the Taylor with the ES2. And the second problem is
just as Leon described. It sounds very harsh.... I have adjusted the pickups per Taylor's instructions and it did not
fix either problem. I can adjust the parametric EQ on our board and improve the sound, but it is still less than satisfactory.
I called Taylor and they didn't seem to be interested in helping beyond telling me how to adjust the pickups.... very disappointing.
Your review is spot on....
Thank you for your comments. I don't understand why more you tubers don't discuss this.
I sold my Taylor 710 because the ES2 sounded terrible. Loved the guitar hated the pickup. i even put in a pure mini to replace the ES2. It still sounded like crap plugged in no matter how I EQd it. I used the baggs venue di and still dissapointed. Finally sold it and bought a martin hd28 and put in a KnK trinity pro. Couldn’t be happier
Totally agree about the ES2 system. I bought a Taylor 714CE FLTD 2014 Sassafras. Beautiful guitar, looks and sound great until plugged in. I'd previously used Takamine 1980's EN10C, EN18C Stereo on stage, never a problem with sound on stage with the Palathetic pick ups, but the Taylor was too harsh, not nice at all. I lasted a couple of weeks until I had an LR Bags Anthem system added which is spot on when on stage. Taylor, during a set up a few years ago upgraded the ES2 to a newer version, which was less harsh, but I still just use the Anthem system..
I have a $3500 Rosewood Dreadnaught Taylor acoustic with the ES-1. The best results I’ve gotten is from setting the low and high knobs all the way to 0 and the gain all the way to 10. Then, dial it in with the mixer. I will say, it is great this way for finger-style acoustic because all the magnets pick up the tone of your hand. Your mixer has to has some pretty drastic Low Cut. Don’t be afraid to get away from the middle settings on the guitar and mixer… lastly, yeah it’s a pain in the ass. 😅
Thank you Leon, you just confirm what i was feeling about Taylor pickup. I have both, Martin DCX1KE and a Taylor 214ce. Fishman pickup are ahead.
Your video is spot on. I’ve owned a Taylor 314 since 1999 with the old fishhman pick up system. The frets were wearing out so I decided to buy another Taylor last year. So I bought the Koa 224ce. At home in a low-volume area it sounds pretty good plugged in direct to a K10. The same as you, as soon as I have to turn it up low end feedback and really harsh mids. I get the best sound from it when I keep the volume halfway and I don’t run it through any pedals. I use the Fishman platinum pro as a preamp. I also find that when I use my Mackie mixer or my Allen and Heath mixer, it also sounds hash. It plays great and sounds great when it is not plugged in. So I ended up getting the frets replaced on my old 1999 314 CE. I went back to using that guitar live because it still sounds great with its Fishman pick up and plays amazing. I keep the Koa at home for unplugged playing. The only thing I can think of is the people designing this at Taylor are not gigging musicians. I might replace the ES2 with a Fishman pick up.
I am so glad I saw this video. I actually wrote to Taylor about it. I have my Taylor guitar over three years and paid €1750.00 for it. I cannot use it for a full live gig. It is a lovely guitar to play acoustic. I have tried it through various PA systems and pedals and it just so sharp, even playing with other band members I can't get it to sound right plugged in. I use it as a spare guitar on stage or to play some lead pieces if someone is singing a slow ballad. It feels like it is an electric guitar pickup in an acoustic guitar, with no body or quality to the sound. I am either going to sel it or replace the pickup.
I for one would be very interested in their response to your letter!
Strange, just this morning, in a shop, I plugged a 214, and it sounded far better than any other...
A few days ago I got my first ever Taylor (it's s GS mini) and it took me many hours over the past days to adjust the ES2 properly. I also play lighter strings so I had to do quite the setup. But I absolutely love the sound coming out of my amp. It sounds so much more natural than my other guitars with standard under saddle piezo pickups.
The pickup in your guitar isn't supposed to sound like that. It sounds like it's set up way too tight, so the piezo elements get compressed too much and the sound they produce is very aggressive and harsh and the signal they put out to the internal preamp is too hot and it can't handle it very well.
First make sure all pots on the preamp are set in the middle (where you feel the slight detent) and that the EQ of your amp is set neutral. Then take a fitting allen wrench and loosen the adjustment screws until you barely hear a signal coming out of your amp. Then tighten them very slightly, one at a time until you get a decent sound and the strings are balanced to your liking. This process can take quite some time. You should invest that time, because you don't have to do this often. Maybe if you change string gauge, I don't know, maybe it can stay the way you set it up forever. After that you can adjust the EQ on the guitar and remember the setting (maybe use little pieces of tape to mark it, because there's no scale around the nobs). And then you can finally do the fine tuning on your amp and you have the best possible sounding ES2.
The ES2 isn't perfect, but I never heard a pickup system that really reproduces the sound of the guitar perfectly. But it surely can sound so much better than what you demonstrated in this video.
That guitar needs a proper set up. Even unplugged is sounds terrible. Amplify that and you get these results.
What are you even thinking posting a demo of that guitar. Bring it to a Luthier. It needs a neck adjustment in the WORST way.
I get the same sound if I turn the guitar volume all the way up, so I don't do that, actually turn it to less than half and it warms right up. It works as designed. You're treating it like a mic'ed acoustic, which is not at all what it is designed to be, if you wanted to mic it you can do that with a mic. It's called an expression system bc of the wide range of tones you can get out of it. Treat it more like an electric than a mic'ed acoustic. Running mine through a marshall tube and getting great warm sounds on clean channel adjusting gain and volume. I've got a deep switch on my amp and it really likes that, whereas electric sounds better without it. Also running it through a reverb box is great and cuts out some of the chimieness. There's a phase switch on the circuit board designed to deal with the feedback issue. And the pickup tubes are adjustable, yours might need loosened up a bit. It's really a very versatile system, just need to get used to it like an electric humbuckers vs single coils etc and find your personal repeatable sound settings or emulate other acoustic sounds with it.
Flip the polarity switch on the inside, or the “phase” switch. That might get rid of that “mid-rangey “ sound
Ya this is the fix! I’ve been playing my 114ce live for years and it sounds ok.
I had several Taylor's now only have a 114 without electronics or a cutout. Went to Gibson and never regretted it. Just got my first Martin. The electronics was part of the reason for the switch
It could be a phase polarity issue, Have you tried using the phase inversion polarity button? It's located in the sound hole on the pickup electronics. System. Should be able to reach it with your hand through the sound hole.
I use to gig with Taylors. I have since switched to the Godin A6 which gives me the best of both worlds from acoustic to electric. My first Taylor had the ES1 in it and I actually liked it. The typical venues I play are small crowded bars with a lot of people, so the ambient noise levels are high with people talking and laughing. I decided to upgrade to the ES2 and I found I was never happy with the sound after that. Even after swapping out ES2 pre amps. I could always dial it in when the bar was quiet but once the room filled up It was too boomy or I had to cut the bass to have it cut through then I hated the tone. This is what prompted me to switch to a hybrid. I still have 2 Taylors in my collection, but they stay home. Just not a fan of the ES2. And yes I have tried all kinds of pedals and this was being plugged into a BOSE tower. I have an $800 Washburn that sounds better plugged in than my expensive Taylors. But I found my stage guitar, the Godin is great!
Yes I wasted so much money on the 824 Taylor and my Washburn festival series sounds way better
I purchased a used 324ce last month in mint condition from a guy in Maine for 1500!!! The ES2 was harsh, tinny, lifeless. I noticed the strings the previous guy had were lights. I bumped them up to mediums and had it properly set up. Instant tonal difference plugged in...and I found even better tones actually came from running it into a tc helicon play acoustic! Its not a hopeless system...you just have to tweak it a bit. I haven't touched the pickup sensors at all. They are still factory set.
That 'harsh' sound was driving me nuts on my factory set 324ce builders edition . . . until I adjusted the pickup using a .050 allen key as per factory recommendations.
The ES2 system is quieter plugged in than other acoustic guitars that I have but the craftsmanship and playability makes it my go to for home.
I was having problems and took my 314ce back to shop. I tried several guitars of similar price and my taylor easily sounded the best with all the controls in the middle. I did however change from finger strumming to a pick which gives it a much better sound. I use it for gigging with these settings and sounds great. I turn the volume up slightly if I'm finger picking however I'm going to start increasing the volume via my pa instead.
I agree that the ES2 does need some work to get a good sound out of it. My 310ce was retro fitted with ES2 by Taylor in Holland, and when it came back it was hugely different to the old system. I worked with a sound engineer, and what we started with were the saddles themselves. We backed them right off so we had no sound at all, then adjusted them gradually until we got a balanced sound across the range. There was a trace of that D feedback, but we backed the middle saddle of a touch which got rid of it. I agree with others about running it flat out - I run the tones flat (bass down a bit maybe), and volume just over half. I use an AER amp flat on eq, but channel gain high till the peak light lights up, and master volume on about 2. I’ve never di’d it into a desk, so can’t comment on that……
Sounds like you are having to do a lot of work and spend even more on a tech and outboard gear to get it to sound ok. There are lots of significantly less expensive guitars that sound way better without any effort or extra gear. It's time Taylor upped their game on the electronics.
Yes, I can’t disagree with you, it has taken time and effort and if I’d known then what I know now, I probably would’ve moved it on!
Now a week later, i've installed the MiSi Align XT on my guitar. And you know what?: I could not believe my ears when I herd it for the first time. I was flabbergasted. What a sound! All my problems solved by this L.R.Baggs undersaddle pickup! Thamks to the guys at Alphnaar Muziek at Haarlem, The Netherlands. Marcel did a great job!
Why Taylor can't do that in the first place just baffles me.
Hi Toon
Do they still build in the MISI Align XT in taylor guitars at Alphenaar? I'm from holland and have a great sounding (unplugged) Taylor 712CE but plugged in i don't like the sound. I have a Martin OMCPE4 and the sound plugged in is great....would love to hear that on my Taylor.
On the webste from Alphenaar I can not find anything about the MSI Align XT.
Can you maybe put a sound test here on youtube with the new system on your Taylor?
Regards Ad
@@bluescape10 Hallo Ad,. De gitaartechnicus Marcel Husting maakte mij hier op attent. Ik kon ook geen geluidsvoorbeelden vinden hier op UA-cam maar ik vertrouw hem met gitaren. Het geluid is prachtig vergeleken met het geluid wat eerst versterkt uit mijn Taylorgitaar kwam. Je mag het wel een keer komen luisteren hoor bij mij thuis.
@@toonhollanders4156 Hoi Toon bedankt voor je snelle reactie.
Ik woon zelf in Den Bosch.
Kon op de site niks terug vinden maar ik begrijp dat ze het systeem wel inbouwen en bij jou recent gedaan.
Wat zijn de kosten ongeveer als ik vragen mag.
@@bluescape10 Het systeem zelf kost €239,-- Ik was in totaal 360 kwijt.
Ik woon in Bergen nh. Ik ben er van overtuigd dat er in de buurt van den Bosch ook prima gitaarwinkels zijn. Marcel Hustings onderhoud ook de gitaren van Harry Sacksioni dat zegt toch ook wel iets. Op internet is informatie iver het MiSi systeem van L.R.Baggs te vinden. Je hebt ook geen batterijen meer nodig. Je moet je gitaar 1 minuut opladen (oplader wordt bijgeleverd) en dan kun je 8 uur spelen.
The volume does not need to be full up at all and in fact it should be maybe centre to 3/4 up and use a preamp amd IR's afterwards with some reverb. I honestly think most people expect an acoustic plugged in to sound great and dialed in with nothing for gain or tone shaping. You can also adjust and balance the 3 pickup pieces with a small Allen key to balance the string output. If you think about this, an electric guitar needs the pickup heights adjusted, preamp gain setup and EQ shaped to get a decent basic tone and then add some light effects for ambience. If you follow the same kind of steps for your Taylor acoustic you will enjoy the sound much more. I absolutely love my 214ce plugged in because I did all of these things to achieve a great sound. It's like the difference between 1950's Chuck Berry and new Joe Satriani soundwise. Processing matters.
Come hai regolo i pick-up con la chiave .... Io ho lo stesso problema... Suono aspro e duro... Che non mi piace nella mia Taylor 114ce
I have a 2011 3 series Grand Symph with the ES1, sounds incredible, especially now that there are some serious road miles on it. I have another 3 series, 2017 LTD that came with the ES2. I tried & tried to love this guitar & I did when it was unplugged. But plugged in it sounded like it was under water. It was just so bad. I couldn't even gig with it because of how shitty it sounded next to my other stage guitar. This past summer I finnaly got fed up with having this beautiful, expensive, honey sunburst LTD, gorgeous sounding guitar that I couldn't even take on a stage. This past summer I had it gutted, stripped the ES2 out & replaced it with the K&K Trinity (think LR Baggs Anthem multi source pickup but made by K&K) & it's like a brand new guitar. It's wild because when it had the ES2 in it I took that thing to every luthier in my city, had it set up & tweaked in every imaginable way, nothing made a true difference in the quacky, tinny, washy tone that was coming from the pickup system. Now I will say this, I have friends who have ES2's that don't sound anywhere close to as bad as mine sounded so maybe it could've been a lemon from the jump...or maybe that's just how individual & finicky solid wood guitars are with electronics.
My Taylor 814ce ES1 pickup new in 2006. Distorted sound early on so they replaced the system. Never happy with the metallic b string overpowering the tone. Fishman Aura Spectrum and Baggs Para DI couldn't fix it. I scrapped the ES1 and installed a JJB system, similar to K&K. Now I can play live and EQ properly. Best thing I have done to improve the Taylor. The Aura Spectrum and Baggs Para DI only sweetens the pot.
Yep, agree about the ES2 system and harsh is an excellent way to describe it. I must be honest, I only ever mic my guitars so haven't played in a live/gig environment using the onboard ES2 system. For reference it would be interesting to hear your views on other acoustic onboard pick-ups.
Will see what I can do. 😉
I had a Taylor 514ce with ES1 in it and sounded decent. I purchased a Taylor 814ce with the ES2 and it sounded horrible for so long.. I could not figure out why it sounded so bad no matter what I did to it. Acoustic sounded amazing but the ES2 is horrible. I ended up replacing it with a L.R. Baggs Anthem pickuo system and now it just sounds so amazing.
Thank you! This is what I'm researching for my 324ce. Can you tell me who installed it for you? I want someone experienced with installing in a Taylor with the ES system. Mie's an ES2.
@@patmclemore1097 a local music shop but since then I installed three myself and it’s pretty easy
@@WrshipGuitar The jack seems to be the issue as my ES2 has the jack and battery together in a unit. I've read comments suggesting a new hole needs to be drilled. Did you have to drill a new hole?
I think a bigger problem than the ES2 system (which I find great IMO) is playing a guitar sadly out of tune to show it's sound.
I returned a nearly $5000 Taylor I was really excited about 2 days ago. I watched a ton of videos and spent a ton of time trying to get it right, but 1 set in a bar was enough for me to never look back. Went home during 1st break to get my normal gigging acoustic.
Really sad the ES system is like it is because these are beautiful guitars.
You are correct. I have No idea why Taylor is choosing to Die on this hill. They have fantastic guitars that have crappy pickups installed. This is a company that needs to swallow its pride and say "We are sorry folks. We thought we were on to something but it turns out we where just chasing our own tail. These are absolutely not good sounding pickups". LR baggs and Fishman have been doing it for many years and know what they are doing. It's insulting for Bob Taylor to come along and try to buy his way into a market that was hard earned by the for mentioned companies. And then, after huge amounts of negative feedback, look us in the eye and say that they are great pickups. The proof is when you stand in a crowed bar or night club and plug them in. They sound distant and completely cold and boxy with a brash high end and a dull low end. You can make them sound okay but it takes several steps/pedals to do it and nobody should have to work that hard to get up to "okay sounding". I'll never understand it.
finally i feel super relieved now that i know i am not the only one, i am going to buy a soundhole pickup for my taylor
Total agree. I play my Taylor 314 plugged in with inears, alot of work to dial in an ok sound. I recently started running to an amp in backroom and miced it with a Sure, sounds much better. All that said I've fallen for the sound of a Martin D12e plugged in, with its fishman pickup its lows and sparkly highs are amazing. My biggest complaint here on youtube, ever joe demos all these guitars with their $2000 mic, not letting anyone hear the guitars real sound for live performers. Thanks for the video!
Ps plug your guitar in turn volume up move your hand up down the strings if that's loud your system is way tight
My Taylor with the ES2 system far surpasses any under saddle system I have ever used. The only better sound is with a mic. You are playing out of Phase, there is a switch inside the guitar that can fix that. The Taylor has ACTIVE eq controls, once you fix the phase it is easy to dial in. Never max your volume on any acoustic setup. You will clip, causing further distortion. Also adjust elements behind the saddle. Once you get it dialed in, it is a great system.
This is exactly my experience (914ce 2022)
I have set the sensitivity of the “Behind The Bridge” piezo PUs as follows:
E+A string and B+E string to approx. MAX minus 180° counterclockwise rotation
D+G string to MAX minus 240° counterclockwise rotation.
Sensitivity of the PUs and volume at 100% is not advisable!
I also installed a Fishman Rare Earth Blend in the Taylor for comparison: the ES2 wins by far!
Well, I would suggest “never” playing with your pre+amp in the guitar turned up all the way 😳 use the power of your amp or board and never turn the guitar preamp up more than half way. That’s the advice I had from a sound man…👍
Your running too much gain its distorting try turning your volume down and adjusting the sensors
Thank you
I was wondering about this when he said he was running his preamp volume full up. If it’s like their ES1 system, there should be a center detent for optimal line level. Turning it past that all the way could possibly be overworking it, which is maybe why it sounds so compressed and lifeless here.
Man, your video is spot on! I chose a Taylor 314ce based on youtube videos BUT they were recorded via mics and not plugged... big mistake! The guitar is astonishing but I wanted to use it for small gigs with guitar and vocal... however every problem you've mentioned - I've experienced... and now I don't know what to do... I like the guitar, it sounds acoustically awesome, but just sucks for live gigs... Maybe I should try Martin or Gibson or if you know a good ES2 replacement?
My best results have been with the cheapest Fishman's, K&K or LR Bags under saddle and a good impulse response.
@@leonbrownmusic Wow, thank you very much for your quick response! I'm going to review those alternatives! Thank you very much!
Is it possible Taylor have improved the ES2 since? I have just had one installed on my Taylor (ungraded from the ES1) and it sounds great, very rich and warm, nothing like in this vid. I am playing it mostly through my aer amp.
exactly! Might trade my 314ce in for a Martin or Gibson eventually.
Spot on Lee. I have EQ'd a few on open mic nights and the feedback was an issue as had to try and crank bottom end to get a full sound and as you say 'it just takes off'.
Comparing to the Faith I have it was night and day difference !
Absolutely spot-on. I thought this was just a problem with MY guitar because it sounded fine for the first few months, and then it developed a booming low-end feedback that could not be EQ’d out. It was unusable at open mics. I thought maybe the precise fitment of the transducers inside the three holes in the bridge had somehow changed. Anyway, I like the guitar so I convinced Taylor to send me their cheaper EST system - it’s just a basic under saddle transducer that uses a preamp that’s similar to the ES2. Now it just sounds like any other guitar with a UST, which is okay but not great. Like another commenter here I bought a Godin A6 hybrid which is now my go-to guitar for playing out.
Thanks for this video - not just me that thinks this then! I do a lot of loud acoustic gigs with an acoustic rock covers band - I use a Bose S1 Pro as an amp with a di into the pa (if required). I actually have a 2003 Taylor 310 which has the pre expression Fishman system in it - and it sounds fantastic. Slightly piezo-y, but very dynamic and just the right sound and feel for what I do. However I also had a 414e and still have a GSe mini - and both sounded awful plugged in. The 414 was especially disappointing as it wasn’t exactly cheap - it had a very boxy mid range sound overall and needed a lot of eq from a very expensive preamp to make it sound halfway decent. i sold it eventually. I still have the gs mini but that has the same issue - very nasty mid range, boxy sound and tbh not fit for gigging. I’ve spoken to Taylor about this and they were decent enough to replace the preamp, but although it’s an improvement, it still doesn’t cut it live - therefore, my otherwise awesome Taylor mini really just sits in the house, whilst a cheap Yamaha goes out as a backup all the time. We can only hope they get their pickup act together soon.
Bonjour. Même problème sur ma Taylor 110e ! Je croyais que c'était uniquement à cause de ma guitare ou parce que j étais trop exigeant ! Merci de cet essai.
Thanks for that! I was looking here to find some explanation for the crap sound of a friend‘s Taylor 314ce when plugged. And you confirmed my concerns about the reason being…
Honestly, shame on Taylor for that poor System.
Thank you so much for this honest opinion. Looking for a guitar for live performance with a church. That sound just wont do... Is there a brand that does better? Maybe Martin with Fishman MX-T or Gibson?
I now use a Faith and Crafter but run through an impulse response. Any bog standard under saddle Piezo sounds great doing this. Otherwise. The best sounding guitars I come across are the higher end Takaminies.
apparently that is by design. You can fine tune your pickups. There is a phase switch on the inside and pickup adjustments on the saddle - 3 of them. seems like a lot of work lol
I wanted to buy Taylor, but after all, I decided to buy Takamine (made in Japan) guitar. One of the reason was the pickup system. I also own Gibson with LR Baggs Anthem which is awesome! But Takamine palathetic pickup and preamp (Japanese models, not G-series made in China) are probably one of the best system for live performance. Just google how many people complaining about ES2 compare to Takamine electronics or LR Baggs Anthem. That is poor for Taylor because they produce really nice guitars.
I agree. The Takamini, even the old stuff, is great.
Hey Leon! Thanks for the demo, I've been considering a 514ce to go along with my Maton SRS808 (which I love) but the pickup system does worry me. I like having some mic in my tone (solo fingerstyle) but a good pickup doesn't always require it. Question, aren't the piezo elements adjustable to fine tune the volume balance? Just curious if that would help resolve your DI tone, which I agree, is garbage. Thanks!
Tried all sorts with it and have come across dozens of them belonging to other people. All pretty much the same.
@@leonbrownmusic that’s disappointing. I wish it was easier to acquire Taylors without electronics.
@@erikjpearsonmusic There are other brands ;-)
@@leonbrownmusic for sure! Hence why I play a Maton 😂
I gigged playing instrumental with a GC8 with a LR Baggs Anthem for a few years and it was pretty good direct and really good through an acoustic oriented pedal board with preamp. I then started using a 12fret cedar/mahogany with ES1.3. The ES 1.3 really needs a TRS cable to transformer intro instrument level for optimum signal and tone. It worked but like you said needed a good preamp. However, it very quickly developed a common ground noise that was very problematic. I love Taylor guitars acoustic tone and feel, but doubt I will ever buy another of their guitars with the propriety pickups.
I realize this video was quite a while ago. But I just saw it today. Has anyone tried the phase switch inside?
I've been trying to figure out what that switch was and couldn't find any information about it. Where did you find that info?
Yes, from my experience from my recently purchased Taylor 612CE (a fantastic guitar acoustically) sounds really harsh through the ES2 pickup system. Its like there is a peaky frequency in the upper mids the make every finger-squeak sound horrendously loud. I have to turn the treble control all the way down just to get a usable sound. The odd thing is that my older Taylor (that uses the Fishman pickup system with under-saddle piezo and mic combination) sounds much more natural, and gives you more control over the EQ. So I feel like Taylor really missed the mark on their ES2 pickup system that should compliment the sound of the guitar. Instead, I'm left with an extremely harsh sounding instrument that does not represent what the guitar sounds like acoustically. I may be needing to look at replacing the pickup with a LR Baggs Anthem or something similar.
Wow, finally someone that has the finger-squeak issue! I thought it was just my ES2. It's super annoying, neverr had that happen on any other guitar. It's frustrating to have just spent $1600 on a new AD17e to have this be an issue. I spent all this money to never worry about the quality of the guitar, both sound and build. Guitar is fantastic unplugged, but I do weekend gigs in a duo and needed this to not be an issue. Did you find a solution?
I have grown to love Taylor guitars. I dont play live. For my ear the Academy 12 has a fantastic sound i prefer to this one. Good video👍🏻
Thank you.
I'm glad I found this video. I was (until viewing this vid) considering a used Taylor 312ce. A 12 fret guitar w/ ES2 for the purpose of playing gigs. I like the idea of a smaller 12 fret for gigging. If that's what it's going to sound like...NO THANKS. My current main gigger is a Larrivee OM with an Anthem. Best plugged in tone I've ever had. I don't know how much is the Larrivee and how much is the Anthem. Just toss a compressor pedal in front and I'm good to go. Looks like I dodged a bullet.
Same issue here, so my first Taylor was a 315ce, love it still have it still play it sounds great plugged in. Two years ago i bought the K24ce sounds amazing until you plug it in. So I sold it, got a 814ce v-class, arm-rest… sounds amazing until you plug it in, so I hot rid of that one too, and im still using my 2004 315cev
Late to the party but... (1) If you're pegging your volume from the guitar to full, this is one of your problems. Volume should be dialed in from the monitors then you can adjust your volume from the guitar's midpoint for a bit more or a bit less. Full on from the guitar is over saturation, it's acoustic with a box resonating string vibrations which is a mix of multiple frequencies bouncing round inside the acoustic. When volume is turned full on you're taking ll those resonances into feedback mode thus they cancel each other out & we then hear a cacophonous melange. It's not a Stratocaster & volume should not be turned to 11. (2) The detent @ mid range of Bass & Treble on the ES2 is where you'd begin to adjust but not before you adjust the EQ on the monitors.. The sound out of the stage monitors being wht the audience hers should be dialed in 1st than the musician adjusts their parameters.. If you're assessing your tonality output of these ES2 systems in the same manner as assessing the Stratocaster with the Pro Junior amp turn up to max. its never going to work / sound good. Piezo under the saddle in an acoustic chamber require a very different porch from the solid body guitar with vibrating strings disrupting the electro magnetic field of the pickup.. In much the same way my acoustic amps do not work with my Stratocasters or my Pro Junior amps dont work for my acoustics.. Experiment with the ES2 it does work very well... Its definitely not the Ovation plastic sound.
I have owned Taylor a 414CE and 814CE. Loved the acoustic sound but always hated the sound through the PA/Amp. Being stubborn i decided to trade up and bought a new $5,500 Taylor Builders Edition K14CE, hoping that a more expensive guitar would certainly sound better. Wrong. All of them had the ES2 and yes Leon. The sounds is horrible. I was complete shocked to hear you describe the D freq feedback. I truly thought there was just something wrong with my guitar.
The question is.. do I replace the ES2 with an LR Baggs Anthem or HIFI and will this fix the sound problem? Or say goodbye to Taylor forever?
Honestly... Unless there is a mic involved the plugged in tone has very little to do with the price of the guitar. If you like Taylor then buy a less expensive one and upgrade the pickup. Or. What I have found works amazing. Is use a fairly basic fishman under saddle pickup and a multi FX with an impulse response. HX Stomp works great and still waaaaaaay under 5k with a decent guitar.
I have a Taylor 214CE DLX with the ES-2 system. I NEVER got a proper sound out of it when I run this guitar through a AER compact 60 amp. There is that sharp snappy sound when I play the D and de B string. Even on this video you can hear it. The must be more players who have to deal with this problem. The guitar itself is great but can't use it on stage.
Spot on video. It's beyond me why Taylor is stuck on using their ES2 systems when there are so many superior options. I keep expecting to learn that a Taylor executive lost a bet or a card game and part of the deal and that's why.
I’ve heard that same guitar sound fantastic through a similar single speaker live setup. So much so that I had to investigate what the player was using because it was so much better than my old Fishman Classic 4 under saddle piezo. But I’ve also heard a lot of horror stories so I don’t know what to think without playing one through my own rig.
I recently solved a problem with my Fishman by switching to a lithium battery. I had been using a rechargeable battery and getting a similar splatty clipped sound like you’re getting. Turns out rechargeable batteries don’t put out a full 9 volts. So maybe your battery isn’t providing enough power?
Good thought but I always use the Duracell. A lot of people swap the electronics out for other brands. Seen quite a few with Bags and K nK in them.
I tried everything to get a good sound from the ES2 in my K14ce. 4-band-eq, compressor, nothing worked. Then I swapped to a MISI system. Probably not the most natural sounding system but it „cuts through“ when soloing.
My Expression 2 pickup system does not sound that way. Because it's a behind the saddle pickup (BEHIND not under saddle like a UST) you have to be really careful or you can damage it even when just doing a routine string change, there also seems to be a rather high defect rate on these... This is an unlisted video as the song is incomplete, but you can hear what mine sounds like. I have a condenser portable TASCAM recorder placed about 2 feet from the Fishman Loudbox Mini speaker recording this, so what you're hearing is coming out of the amp. It's an Expression 2 plugged direct into the Fishman Loudbox EQ on the amp is flat. Taylor model is a 217e ua-cam.com/video/fSW7aoznyvE/v-deo.html
Totally agree and it's ridiculous that you can't buy Talylor without this system, all the EQ in this world combined can't save the sound, believe me I've tried and it just sounds terrible - if you take a guitar with LR Baggs Anthem system then the angels starts sing again
I have a 324ce BE with the ES2. The high pitch is harsh when plugged in and has been driving me nuts! I bought a Boss EQ pedal that provides boost which helps the volume problem, but I have to step down on the treble with the EQ settings which just takes away from a clean sound! The biggest question I have is installing the jack. Since the ES2 has the battery and jack built together in a single unit, that unit apparently needs to either be rewired for the baggs or a new hole needs to be drilled. I have read many of the previous comments but there seems to be little discussion on the installation, especially with the jack replacement. What is the best way to install the jack with the ES2 system?
I would leave the es2 where it is and just drill another hole for the bags jack.
Why do some people not cut their strings?
I watched. I now trust you. Thoughts on K&K Pure Mini?
I have one of those in another guitar. It's passive so needs a preamp. Quite dynamic but a little crisp on the low end. Honestly. The best results I have ever got were from a basic fishman or shadow under saddle with a stock preamp but run through an impulse response loaded into a multi effects unit.
Purchased a 414ce a few months ago and have serious buyers remorse. Can not get a useable plugged in sound no matter how i eq it. Seriously thinking about dumping it and trying to recover most of my 2700 and pulling my Epiphone DRM500mce refitted with a K and K pure mini out of the closet which sounds 1000 time better with minimal eq. More expensive is not always better. Some brands have a Brand Name tax on them that far exceeds the actual value. Taylor is one of them. At the price, it should be a plug and play not requiring someone with a degree in sound engineering just to get a barely passible result.....
Pickup system is to tight happens when you change the strings and don't adjust the system correct ? if you haven't much experience at that system.you over tighten the discs the need to be much looser. I can hear the quack from the peiso pickup it like you have the strings over the top of the Mike call Taylor if they have some instructions on line this system is so powerfull it easy to go over board I have over 50 years experience and it through me a curve first string change good luck
Some of us already have this guitar… would you bypass the under the bridge and go for a different type pickup?
Yep.
Taylor sucks , my Yamaha FSX 720 SC has a preamp ,3 band graphic EQ , master volume ,adjustable mid freq. band and a built in chromatic tuner w/ auto shut off , all this for 450 dollars . The guitar kicks ass !
According to me ES2 pick-up system is best. Because it cuts through the mix in a whole band environment. Other pick-up systems gets drowned and don't get feedback. The reason why you feel harsh is that you didn't set up the EQ properly. If EQ is set properly, then taylor is best
Maybe Taylor's R&D department should recommend the type or brand of acoustic amp to use, better yet, they must create their own acoustic amps tailored to their guitars to correct the issues of microphoning, equalizing and amplifying problems...
Or just sort their pickups out?😂🤣
I had for a couple of day a Baby Taylor BT-2e, with a complete new sound system. That sounded great compared to the ES-2 system. The shop where Iv had it from called it a Taylor piezo system. But in the description in the Taylor website they mention only the ES-2 system while it is a complete different sysem the use on the Baby Taylor BT-2e.
How to get the trouble done??
I concur. Spot on. I ditched the expression 2 quickly and installed a Baggs Anthem that I took off my former gigging guitar and have been using the Taylor 814ce live since 2018. Recently I have been contemplating returning to the ES2 because I currently do not have the use of the volume and tone knobs but you talked me to my senses.
Don't do it man! Stick to the baggs and eq from the desk.
So LR BAGGS doesn't have volume controls handy...I paid 3700 bucks for mine and a buddy thought it sounded fine....no sir not fine
i bought the taylor 324ce builders edition for £3500. without doubt the most gorgeous looking semi ive ever had the pleasure of playing. the build quality was incredible. i was so so happy. then....i plugged it in. the sound was the worst sound ive ever heard from any guitar. harsh, brittle and completely unplayable. i spent hours trying to dial in a decent eq on my desk and amp. in the end, i had to return it. why would taylor make such an incredible instrument,only for it to be unplayable when you plug it in?? someone in their design team needs fired. i got my money back and bought the new martin sc13e special. this guitar is the easiest playing and best sounding guitar around. if i had the cash, id buy another lol
I've seen your performance in Lost, you're an good actor.
Yep. The ES 2 sucks. I bought a 324ce Builders Edition. Love it unplugged. Totally sucked plugged in. It’s harsh and my j45 with a bags pickup blows it out of the water.
Taylor should just stick an under saddle piezo with an IR blend knob on the top
I cannot speak to the ES2 on how good it is, but I will tell you what I notice in my own research. Two points I'd make, which are fact and opinion; you would be hard pressed to find a Taylor that does not have some version of their own pickup systems anywhere online. I'm taking anywhere, new and used. This is crazy! They just pop them out from the factory ready to go, even in the 8-900 series! The dissatisfaction with this system online is kind of mind blowing, especially that Taylor seems to double down in defending it rather than listen to the customer complaints. I mean, I intentionally AVOIDED any Taylor with an ES anything. These systems just don't sound that great, and certainly not anything I'd want in in a $1K or higher guitar! Why not partner with Fishman, or LR Baggs? Again, it just kind of blows my mind. You would think Taylor would be listening
In my opinion, they don't sound that great, and that is why I purchased my first Taylor without electronics (also saved me some cash). Even when people tweak the EQ, run them through IRs, fancy pedals....it doesn't matter, there is nothing that wows me about any piezo tone where sound in generated from compressing piezo elements (so my criticism isn't even directed only to Taylor). If one must go piezo, I recommend something that is not IN the bridge, and definitely not compressed directly under the saddle. Go for a sound board transducer like the K&K, JJB 330 Prestige, or LR Baggs HiFi. Otherwise, mic your guitar or use a sound hole magnetic pickup (although I've tried a few and don't like the tone of them at all personally). The best sounding pros are using a dual-source system anyway, so even they know that there are sever limitations to piezo pickups- just sayin'.
Agreed...They're a night mare.
I will say if your battery dies a little bit it really screws it up too.
My 824 rosewood only sounds good when plugged into a Korg D 3200
You need to have bass treble and volume set at 12 o’clock
Sadly, I agree and I don’t understand why Taylor thinks this a wonderful system and sound. What guitar do you prefer for over the house system?
I use a faith or a crafter and an impulse response but high end Takaminis always sound good
Did Taylor Guitars send you this guitar for free just for demo video? I can understand that as you have a large channel and subscriber count.
My 2011 210e is decent sounding for pub gigs with its ES pickup system. But by comparison, the 2018 BT2e and 2020 GS Mini-e - both with the ES-B system, an entirely different beast - sound absolutely horrendous. They just sound dull and honky next to the plugged in 210. I even installed a LR Baggs M1 passive pickup in my GS mini to see if I could polish a turd, so to speak. And it didn't really make much of a difference. So, I assume a large part of why the 210e sounds better it's because of the larger guitar body/sound chamber as opposed to the smaller GS Mini and travel sized BT
Something is wrong with that Pickup, i agree my lrbaggs anthem sl sounds amazing even in my cheap AMI but something is wrong with that expression system
Nothing wrong with it. It's been checked by me and a pro tech and piezo elements set to spec.
Es 2 is the reason why I got rid of my gs mini.. very nice guitar when played acoustic, almost impossible to play when plugged
It’s not just the ES2. I have an older Taylor with the ES1 system. It’s got an annoying, honky mid range thing that other plug-in acoustics don’t have.
I totally agree! With the Price of midgrade Taylor (I recently spent 2700 on a new Taylor 414CE from Sweetwater and I am incredibly disappointed with the sound of the ES2 system. For that that kind of money it should sound great without having to spend a bunch of time with plugins or units to make it sound presentable (much less great). I owned a '90s Taylor with a Fishman setup that sounded way better! Very disapointed!
Couldn’t disagree more. I have 310ce w an ES2 and it sounds incredible. Most natural sounding pickup I’ve heard. Also I have a line array PA and don’t have feedback problems
Nasal is the best way to describe the Expression System,great guitars but switch the guts to a Fishman pickup,way better clarity and power
I just got mine and it plays and sounds amazing....but plugged in its terrible not as bad as yours. Mine is a different issue its very squeaky when picking, string noise. I think your ES2 is broke mine does not sound nearly as bad as yours.
Here's how to tame the ES system; tear it out. While I use Taylor 6/12 string guitars faithfully; no amount of 'selling' will convince me that the ES system is worthy of anything, except tearing out of the guitar-and putting in a Fishman Prefix or Blender. Oh, you get the 'quacking sound' with the cheap ES system on their 12 strings. Taylor pickups suck on their 12 strings. Drop a Fishman Prefix Pro or Blender into it. Taylor stopped selling their guitars with 'Fishman systems', to cut costs and sell more guitars. The six's are barely tolerable with their ES pickups-but their 12 strings sound like garbage. Don't let ANYONE, including Taylor tell you otherwise. Doubt me? Go find an early 2000's Taylor 12(And six,)-and plug it into a p.a. system. (Not a guitar amp.) My 2004 855 sounds amazing, so why have a cheap, 'it'll do' pickup in it...Taylor sold out with the public; by dumping the Fishman systems, and pushing these horrible-sounding ES toys.
By the way, what amp are you using?
None. It goes straight to front of house.
I have 4 Taylor’s. One of them is the same model as that. It is horrendous but mine sounds nothing like that. You need to take that to taylor…
I have to agree with you 100%. They are especially weak if you are trying to get an acoustic guitar solo to cut through the mix. I’ve tried just about everything and haven’t managed find any sweet spot for soloing. Can you say WIMPY?
Hi Leon. Thanks for this demo, but I've never heard such a crappy sound with an ES2 system! I have a Taylor 327e, and even though the ES2 is not as good as a good mic in front of the guitar (but is there such a thing??! 🙂 ), I think it is a very good plug'n'play system for live sessions. Perhaps not the best, but one of the best ! I can compare it with the LrBaggs Anthem (which is known as one of the best systems for acoustic guitar) which is mounted on my other acoustic guitar (A Norman), and I can say that the ES2 does the job as well as the LrBaggs. It's true that the output of the ES2 is lower than other systems, but it's not an issue, you just have to adjust P.A level. And if I compare with other systems with just a classic piezo, ES2 is much better to my ears... I gig with it for 4 month now, never had a problem with my sound and the sound engineer 🙂
Perhaps because the preamp Volume is turned all the way up ?
Sounds horribly thin when miced. Mic placement is poor. For the pickup it is not recommended to use the volume all the way up. Set it at mid and then EQ and shape and boost using whatever it it that you are plugging into.
Just traded the Taylor 811e GT for a Gibson southern jumbo because the es2 pickup is wack as f**k for a guitar in that price range