FrogLube CLP (& Concerns)
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- Опубліковано 28 вер 2024
- This is a video that details FrogLube as well as shares some concerns that surfaced after I used it. FrogLube CLP is noted as a biodegradable, non-toxic, plant based, gun cleaning agent developed by a navy seal to replace petrol based cleaners as CLP and Hoppe's.
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Because Ballistol is such a safe agent (MSDS data) and Neo-Ballistol is medicinal in Europe, some have stated I was incorrect calling Ballistol a petrochemical. A petrochemical is any compound obtained from petroleum or natural gas and is called a petroleum distillate. Fractional distillation breaks petroleum into four constituent oil classes; 48-50% Napthenes, 30-31% Paraffins, 15% Aromatics and 5-6% Asphaltics. Ballistol is made up of mineral oil which is a paraffin (paraffinic oil) which is a petroleum distillate and thus, even though the paraffinic oil in Ballistol is a nontoxic medicinal grade mineral oil (MSDS data), it is most definitely a petrochemical.
The gun being sticky after a period of time is common with their "new and improved" Frog Lube. They changed the makeup of their product from its original makeup, due to issues that I can not say, but your issue with the gun being sticky is what I have heard more then once.
RPS Tactical Thanks for the added information. I heard the "new and improved" formula might not be PAO based like the original formula. This is hearsay as I do not have confirmation from the company; as they will not respond to my emails. They probably don't care what I think, but the stickiness (whether it is only a perceived problem or not) with their new formula is somewhat of an issue with me. And certainly if they have indeed gotten away from PAO in the new formula, then that might not be a positive either. Thanks again for your info.
I enjoyed watching your video, I like the way you presented the facts especially with the PAO part.
I have encountered the same sticky issue with Frog Lube. I slopped it the first time too. I tried using it sparingly and although it was not gumming up like when I slopped it, after storing it for a while the metal parts still felt a bit sticky. I have moved to something else now for my guns but I'm still using Frog Lube for my steel targets.
Thanks for the additional info.
Enjoyed the review. I use FL on my guns and have had good success. I also have a couple of guns in storage, which I check once a month, so far no issues. Although, I do avoid getting FL into the springs and other recessed areas, mainly on the slide and barrel.
My mistake was the slopping technique. Never done that ever with any cleaning solution and definitely should not this either. Thanks for the info.
as usual, awesome video. thank you!
i've been experimenting with froglube for some time now....while i like the product, i have noticed it can accumulate in certain areas of a firearm and cause issues with function. so no thanks. also in cold conditions it seems to get sticky and i've noticed it takes several rounds fired to become slick again.
in short, i'm going back to ballistol and slip 2000....they're far easier for me to use and i don't have to worry about either product gumming up a striker channel or extractor.
Squib308 Thanks very much for the info. Since making the video I have also noted similar problems even when using it sparingly. Cold especially seems to be a problem especially if it sits up in the cold. It seems a gun that is used often - as in the military - is less subject to problems as FrogLube seems to work best as the guns heats and the FL liquifies. Also, like you I can clean quickly and efficiently, even at my range after shooting with Ballistol or BF CLP, and I cannot do this with FL.
*****
wow I couldn't agree with you more. froglube is a neat product but I can't chance having my firearms get all gummed while in storage. unfortunately some people seem to have quite an emotional investment in froglube because I am shocked by how angry others get if froglube is criticized. I recently had a fellow tell me I was "unamerican" for criticizing a product invented by a Navy Seal.
You do a great job in the video of discussing froglube and your concerns...it's a fine line between being honest and generating unnecessary criticism from emotional fools, so I commend you!
Squib308 Appreciate the added info on your FL experience. Regardless of how it got invented - it is what it is.
As some of our southern cousins have been known to phrase it, I was just "fixin to" clean my guns w/ Frog Lube. And, I am, once again, very grateful for your excellent, thoughtful analysis, that might have saved me some blind wondering (/blundering?). My understanding from your guidance is, less is not more, but it's just right. I get that. I would have globbed it on. Now, I will apply it regularly (not all in one lump). I'll try to update you on my success. I'm very grateful for your continuing good work.
Bill, thanks for the comment. I have had no problems with FrogLube using it very sparingly like I use other cleaner/lubes. I would appreciate a follow up on your findings. I have found that as long as it is used sparingly cold does not seem to effect it, but I have found out that if you put more than a sparingly amout on it gets slightly "gummy" if the gun sits up it the cold, i.e. 30 deg or so. I know this is contrary to what some others have said about temperature effects, but I am just stating my observation.
I took my AR and a couple of my Sig pistols out of the safe for a trip to the range yesterday and all three guns were gummed up and sticky like I had lubed them with pancake syrup. Thanks to Froglube I never made it to the range, I spent the whole day soaking this crap out of my guns with solvent. Never again!
Rukus I really appreciate the info. Several commenters have felt I "slammed" FrogLube. I did not. I, like you, simply reported my findings. Even sparingly, I had similar problems with the gummy feeling. FrogLube must have changed their formula from the PAO based compound or have some other additives that cause the stickiness because other PAO based compounds as BreakFreee CLP do not do this. Another disappointment is that the company will not respond back.
Rukus Rukus, I will definitely address this issue with the FrogLube Company at the 2015 SHOT show in Vegas in 3 weeks. Thanks again for the input.
+Rukus LOL! Yes, I used to leave the excess FL on when I'm storing my guns for long periods but now that I have more confidence in it I blow off the excess after spring and fall FL applications while the guns are still hot. You don't need to leave it all gooey in order to lube. Works smooth as silk even when you don't see the stuff on there. My Sigs always loved FL.
Even when using FL sparingly I experienced the gumming effect after relatively short storage! Perhaps "sparingly" means something else to them...I don't know. But even just a small amount caused the gumming for me. I have used many types of cleaners, lubes, and NEVER experienced anything like this. I too really wanted to like and use this product. I have a family member who is desperately allergic and sensitive to strong chemical smells and such, so this seemed like a godsend. No such luck for me! I've moved on(or maybe I should say back) to M-Pro 7 and wish I had just stayed with it in the first place. For those having good luck with FL, great - but I would say folks need to know about this gumming issue before they plunk down the money...and before they end up with guns coated inside and out with molasses!
+Henry Richards Henry, I have it tried it several times as well with the same results - sticky feeling, and using small amounts. I am OK with my CLPs. Thanks for the comment.
I've been using FrogLube for two years on all my firearms, semi-automatic pistols, revolvers, carbines, rifles including AR's, SCAR, and IWI Tavor and a range of Mil-Surp models. I live in Minnesota and shoot in temperatures all the way from single digits to 100 degrees. I also have firearms that I shoot regularly as well as a couple of "safe queens".
Properly applied, it works extremely well. I can't believe how many questions I get on my application video from people asking about using other lubes, weird application techniques, etc. Then they want to know why it doesn't seem to be "working right". I've even seen videos of people heating FrogLube in an ultrasonic cleaner and then running the parts through it.
Follow the treatment and application process per the instructions and it's a wonderful product. Nice vid!
I haven't personal used FL but my units armor told us the cav. unit he was in before tried using FL. Said it seamed to work great at first. After a couple months they started having tons of issues with their rifles. Just as a heads up. One thing that might help with the storage issue is to wipe everything down warm with a clean rag until it almost feels dry before storage (the protection layer is impregnated into the metal, not the surface oil aka dust collector layer) . Pull it out of the safe couple drops in the action good to go. That how I was taught to store rifles.
No doubt that is the best way to store and how I have always done it...Just did not follow thru correctly with the FrogLube so was my fault and probably not the FrogLube.
Excellent video! Thank you.
+DwightMS1 Thanks for viewing and commenting.
I would recommend that you try out Seal1 CLP. It is a bio-preferred product that you would think was the same, other then the color, but it is not. Seal1 will never get sticky and will stay on your gun in storage for ever just as you left it. Their website is Seal1.net
Thanks for the info.I will check it out.
Isn't Ballistol non-toxic? I thought it was. Not where I can read a can right now.
The MSDS info on Ballistol states it contains medicinal grade mineral oil, alkaline salts of oleic acid, several alcohols, benzyl acetate with the aerosol containing A-70 (butane and propane) as a propellant and 14% Isohexane as a thinner. States the amount of n-hexane in the Isohexane is only 3% and is not enough to classify it as toxic. It has virtually no skin absorption. However, on the Ballistol aerosol label it states: Danger: Extremely flammable; Harmful or Fatal if swallowed. This warning is probably overstated according to the MSDS but probably is noted for legal purposes because of the propellants in the aerosol can. All in all according to the MSDS data, it appears - to me at least - that it is pretty safe as far as gun cleaning agents go. Hope this helps. Thanks for viewing and commenting.
So what's your go to clp know? I started with ballistol and have tried just about every Johnny come lately non-toxic clp. Fireclean (vegetable oil), seal 1, rand clp and weapon shield. I like weapon shield a lot, I just wish I knew what's in it besides synthetic oil. Could be just rebranded Mobil 1 with a cinnamon sent added. Also I wish there was an aerosol version. I'm going back to ballistol, I know what's in it. I like that it has a aerosol version and wipes.
+Darren Smith My go to is Ballistol and Hoppe's in the barrel. Thanks for viewing and commenting.
Your welcome, thanks for the reply. Has anyone told you that you have a Morgan Freeman type voice. You could read a cameras instruction book and I'd be interested.
why would you have to heat up your gun to clean it?
Nick Q It is recommended to heat the gun prior to applying the FrogLube so it will "penetrate" into the metal grooves better. Not a necessity but is recommended. Makes it an ordeal to clean with it for sure.
So would you suggest the buy of ballistol? i've seen some videos of it not being protective from rust is it true?
I wanna use it as an all around spray like i do with wd 40
living in europe i got a super deal on 10 l of it,so before buying such a large amount i wanna know the truth
dimmacommunication All I can attest to is what I do and my results. My go to cleaner is Ballistol and I have had no problems at all with it. Thanks for the info and comment.
if it is so good why is not approved on USN submarines, I questioned FL, no factual reply. Just blocked.
I have never bought into the all in one miracle gun cleaners. Just give me Hoppe's #9 and Rem Oil.
stchman Good choices for sure. Thanks of the info.
Drugs are bad 'mmmmmmmmkayyy
NOTE in my follow up experience with FL after the video:
My continual experience with FrogLube is not as positive as many have noted. Even using it sparingly, I have noticed a "stickiness" especially after a gun sits up for a period of time. This however might be only my perceived problem, as when the gun heats up as it is shot, the FL appears to do its job by liquifying and releasing the hydrocarbons to be wiped off - but I simply do not like the feel of it before the gun is shot. So the FL is probably working as advertised and again many out there swear by it, and some in situations where the gun is used daily in their job in potential life threatening situations. I also admit I am very biased for Ballistol, BF CLP and Hoppe's (in the bore) as they have worked so great for me over the years and especially the way I use them. By the way I use them, I can clean a gun out at the range in 5 minutes with them and I cannot do this with FL; so I find myself not cleaning as often with the FL (and maybe you don't need to). That is not FL's fault, but just the way I like to do things. Also, I do not like to relegate a gun to be a FL gun - and it is recommended that after a gun is cleaned with FL, one should not use any other chemicals while the FL is the primary cleaning agent in the gun. FL being a completely "green" agent is a really good thing but Ballistol is also very safe being made of medicinal grade mineral oil. I shoot some lead, and many reloads so I am compulsive cleaning my guns - and thus utilize what I feel does the best FOR ME - BF CLP and Ballistol.
i agree, i do not like the gunk/stickiness of the FL after being in storage.
Thanks jon for the added info.
You stated in the video that you allowed only 5 minutes after application and then wiped it off. The manufacturer does recommend to allow the parts to cool back to room temperature.
Most of the problems with this product seem to coincide with not waiting to cool, over applying and long term storage following improper application.
It is difficult for us to use a product in a different way. Old habits die hard...
I will admit that the manufacturer did not clearly laynout instructions in the beginning and most had to learn from others mistakes. Including me. Thanks for the videos.
You deserve every positive comment you receive. The quality of your videos is top tier.
PlatypusTactics Thanks very much for that comment, I really appreciate it. I enjoy learning everything I can about my guns and the sport of shooting so thought I would share some of what I learn with others who might just enjoy it the way I do. As long as it's enjoyed, at least by some, I will keep doing it.
RGR UPDATE: I will address some of the issues that I as well as many of you commenting have had with the "stickiness" of FrogLube in 3 weeks at the 2015 SHOT show in Vegas and will post the company's response here on this video site from the convention. Thanks for your interest in our RGR educational videos.
Can't wait for the update video!
I recently subscribed because I like your scientific reviews and clean talk. I'm a Ballistol user but it's hard to get used to the smell. I tried Frog Lube and love the smell and it being non toxic. I use it sparingly now, but not until it gummed up on my firearms after about a few months of storage. Can you do a review on Lucas Extreme Gun oil and the Royal Purple Gun Oil? Thank you. Love your videos.
Froglube will freeze solid......left it in my car 1 time and it froze solid
Does not seem like a good thing for sure..
Frog Lube sounds like an ass whippin'. If your previous program has worked for decades, why switch? There doesn't seem to be much upside. If it ain't broke, quit trying to fix it. The winterizing comments from the Frog Lube prez didn't encourage me either.
TheGoatMumbler Appreciate your comments and viewings. I try all sorts of agents and methods to mess with my guns. If I stayed with only what worked, I never would have tried Ballistol. I am playing with ultrasonic cleaning now and like the results with it too. I'll always try new and different things in virtually all I do; keeps me learning and helps the boredom. Thanks again for your comments.
Well done, your video makes one do a little thinking. I haven't used Froglube yet, Ballistol is my go to cleaner, I think I'll wait a couple years on the Froglube, until all the reports are in on this one, but I'm sure its fine....but time will tell for sure. Thanks for the video my friend.
I appreciate the comment GunsHarleysUSA (neat name too.) I simply went nuts slopping it on - totally against all I've ever done for over 40 years. However, I agree, Ballistol is hard to beat.
i was just about to purchase frog lube. i heard lots of good things about it. then i started hearing about the sticky problems. everyone except you has claimed that they followed the directions exactly. i appreciate that you were honest in that you didn't apply it sparingly. See, based on my personal experience with things and reading reviews,.. the skeptic in me believes lots of bad reviews are actually based on user error not bad products. LIke you, i was hoping for this to be a good product. Most of my guns don't get used as often as i would like and would like for all of them to work on the first pull in a defense situation. Wondering if you have reapplied and if you have any updates. Thanks again.
Yes, I did reapply it to my SIG P229 and SP2022 - correctly - and they functioned just fine when I shot them. The gun I really had a problem with was my little pocket carry Kahr P380 and I am going to stay with Ballistol with it for now. Maybe later but not for now. Thanks for viewing and commenting.
I think I am going to stick to my trusty Ballistol.
Excellent review.
I agree. Ballistol has been a great CLP for me too. None better that I've used/ Thanks for viewing and commenting.
***** I've heard that it's nothing more than glorified mineral oil, a bit pricey, and smells. Prior to using the FL I've just used CRC QD electronic spray cleaner (in lieu of brake cleaner) to clean and degrease, and BreakFree CLP, and Tetra grease or other grease (for handgun rails). I solely used Rem Oil (four drops for lube) on my XD prior to switch to FL.
brentfoto
Ballistol is, in fact, one of the cheapest CLP on my side of the world. I've used it since I was a little kid. The smell is not so bad, and I've got used to.
i like and appreciate your sensibilities.
+Barry Newman Thanks Barry. Just an old Texas who enjoys sharing what little I have learned thru the years about this great sport. Thanks again for viewing and commenting.
Thanks for your video. I've been using frog lube in two of my guns and never had the problem you described. I only place it in the areas I normally would have placed oil. It works great for me and smells better.
Thanks for the info. I don't know what came over me - I went from literally no oil for years to like a maniac slopping the stuff on. I look forward to applying it the same way I have done my other CLP agents and seeing how the guns function. Thanks again.
Having to avoid petrol based sounds like real pain. I can't stand the idea of having to heat up the gun all over again if I have to use another product in a pinch. I use Pro Shot's Copper 4 solvent as an extra step on top of Ballistol. Butches Bore Shine is the only CLP I've found that works as well on copper; but smells like straight ammonia. I'm gonna see if I like Eezox more than Ballistol.
+John H Thanks for the comment. Let me know what you come up with.
This stuff gets way too sticky in a short amount of time. The drawbacks of the stuff (not compatible with other lubes, application process, gumming up, etc) far outweigh the benefits. I threw the bottle away, cleaned it out of my guns, and will never touch it again. Breakfree CLP, Hoppes 9, and synthetic automotive grease are the most commonly used products on my bench.
+BigBeansM3 I found out the same. I have tried it in every way out there with the same sticky results. I appreciate the comment and your viewing.
I have used it and had nothing but issues just not worth my time to many other good products to use
Same with me. I had to take all my guns and run them through the Sonic Cleaner to get the gummy areas completely out. Just did not work for me. Also, too long in cleaning as I prefer to do a quick clean at the range after shooting.
Thanks for viewing and commenting. I really appreciate it.
Great video I've just been using alcohol to clean and motor oil to lube for years.
Thanks for viewing and for the comment.
I just drain my oil bottles when I change oil and I get plenty of mobile-1, at no extra coast.
+MyRebel44 Mobile 1 certainly works. I have used it too. Thanks for viewing.
I've been wondering about this stuff. Good informative video!
Thanks for viewing and commenting.
Interesting, I had a product called "Slipstream". Very slippery at first, but then turned into a Brown "Plaque" like substance and gunked up a number of my guns. Man, I am sticking with Ballistol. Funny how I have tried every thing, but always come back to Ballistol. Thanks for posting.
I bought a bottle of Froglube after hearing all of the hype as usual. I followed the instructions and used it on my M-4 bolt carrier group. After I removed the rifle from the safe after weeks of storage what I found was a sticky mess of a bcg. I threw the Froglube away and will never go back.
lawdog89 I have tried it multiple times with the same results. Thanks for the comment.
+lawdog89 ditto, I bought a 1911,new, and ran nothing but FL in it for 2500 rounds. applied as instructed. my gun would freeze shut and the FL would not "seep" out of the metal. the gun would just run dry cause lots of malfunctions and made the slide operate hard. again, I tried this many times and even refereed to their videos.
Thanks for the comment and added info. LOt to be desired in the agent FL.
Thanks for the in depth review. I started using Ballistoil and it seems to work fine. Based on your experience, do you have any concerns using it, beside the fact petro based? Thanks.
I have absolutely no concerns with Ballistol. Also, Ballistol is actually used in wound care in some parts of Europe. I cleaned 4 guns with the FrogLube - with the sloppy technique I used - and have since "redone" all of the guns with Ballistol; so have TS and Bill of RGR. It will still be our go to cleaner as it has been for the last years. Thanks for viewing and commenting.
Aren't PAO's toxic though?
PAO is not noted as toxic on the Data Sheets and it will biodegrade. Agents as Break Free CLP become toxic with the other agents in it. I am definitely not an expert in compound chemistry but just noting the information that is out there on the Data Sheets as to what is stated to be in these agents as well as what is stated by each company. Thanks for viewing
3 month sticky thing happened to me. It turns to sticky goop!
Thanks for the added info.
Have you done a follow-up with the Kahr and storage? Their directions actually call for a more generous coating for storage and harsh environments. I'm having trouble with my guns gumming up like yours and it doesn't take very long of storage to happen. I called froglube today and was told it's because the petrochemicals are interacting with the frog and that I need to buy and use their cleaner. I used Castrol Super Clean degreaser on many of them and he said it's likely the degreaser is the culprit. I cleaned most of the guns pretty thoroughly in an ultrasonic, hot water rinsed, compressed air dried, and oven baked at a very low setting to assure dryness and applied the frog while the parts were still hot. Nothing looked wet when I was done, just enough to not look dry. One or two of the guns was cleaned using brake parts cleaner. Every gun I've frogged has become gummy and slow relatively soon after application whether fired or not. Their website just says that using it in combination with petrochemicals will "negate the optimal effects of froglube", not that it'll make guns stop functioning. I like the smooth feel of froged guns so I'm going to give them more of my money in hopes that it actually works.
DonziGT230 I clean my Kahr what Ballistol now and have no problems with it. I actually shot it with several friends today as one was seeing if he wants to buy one for a pocket gun. It shot great - several hundred rounds and not one issue. Thanks for the comment.
With all do respect to FrogLube (FL), may I suggest you try SEAL1 CLP. It is very similar to FL, except, it will not "gum up" over time. Something I've seen occur in person. In fact, if my information is correct, one of the inventors of FL helped design SEAL1 CLP and has figured out the problem to prevent the gum up problem... For the record, I have no stake in SEAL1, other than I've spoken with the company, tried it, & determined it works. Just my 2 cents, as I'm no expert. Cheers!
Thanks for the great info. I have had several comments about Seal1 and they have all been positive. I will definitely try it. I have had comments from some who evidently praise FrogLube and think that I am bashing it. Not true - I have no dog in the fight except that I do not like my guns gummed up, and I simply reported my experiences with it.
Good review. I have not had a good experience with Frog Lube either. Slopping it all over was not a wise idea. Where it went, was in and around my firing pin and gunked it up. Second time at the range, my Glock had several misfires. The gunsmith at the range informed me about the firing pin problem. Pretty embarrassing. With the cost of Frog Lube I plan to use it up, staying away from the firing pin area. I am looking for a good alternative to replace Frog Lube. I recommend that Sootch stick with pouring water on Maxpedition gear.
I really messed up too and paid for it like you did. For me, its hard to beat Ballistol and CLP, but I must say I use them and gunoil very sparingly and absolutely went nuts with the FrogLube - completely out of character for what I have always known about gun cleaning.
Thank you for this video. I’ve been using FrogLube for about two months now and have some comments to add from my experience. I was very impressed with the Solvent. It cleaned my gun like never before. The CLP has worked mostly as advertised. After shooting 200 rounds or so, a simple wipe-down is all that is needed. One bore swab completely cleans the barrel when shooting copper plated bullets. It did not clean the bore as well when using moly coated bullets. I had to go back to Hoppe’s Lead & Copper cleaner to get the bore completely clean. I like the slight “Armor All” type coating it leaves on the surfaces. It makes my mags drop out easy and fast. My IDPA reloads are faster now. Before I used FrogLube I would have to grab my mag plates and pull them out. It could be my imagination but I’ve also noticed a slight improvement in my slide speed. It just seems to snap back faster. My double-taps feel faster but I haven’t timed them. I started using FrogLube on my knives as well. It doesn’t appear to work as well on tape residue but I did not go through the “heat up” process on my knives yet so time will be the true test. Finally, the lack of toxic smell is a huge plus. My wife would constantly be on my case that the Hoppe’s #9 was killing my brain cells and would give her a migraine if she got a whiff from the garage. It would also cause my hands to burn and break out in a rash under my wedding band so I’ve had to use rubber gloves. With FrogLube I’ve only had slight irritation on my hands, no vapor issues and most importantly, no complaints from my wife.
Great info. Thanks Tim. I was hoping the video would generate some comments like yours that are helpful for all of us. Severals questions if you don't mind: How sparingly do you apply it to your gun; with your experience,do you think the problem I had was applying too much; and have you noticed any problems with it in colder temperatures. Thanks again for the info.
***** Initially for the first two treatments I slopped it on heavily after heating and left for two hours before wiping down. After I shoot now I wipe my Glock down often without applying any additional FrogLube CLP. I learned the hard way that you can over-lube Glocks so I don't lubricate much. Every third time I shoot I'll put an additional small amount of the FL CLP on before wiping down. I don't think colder temps matter. The gun heats up regardless of air temperature. I enjoy your channel. Thank you for the great reviews. I especially like the Texas CHL videos.
I had a thought once after viewing one of your TX CHL videos. I thought it would be nice if you presented questions to us, paused, then revealed the answers. I would use this as a "refresher" every six months or so to test myself that I am keeping sharp on all the carry rules. For example (TX CHL carry), "Can you conceal carry your weapon into a bank?", or "you are pulled over by a police officer while you are driving and carrying. Is it your obligation to reveal to the officer that you are carrying?". Just a suggestion that would be helpful to me. Keep up the great work!
Thanks Tim for the great info. I have and still do use Hoppe's occasionally but without doubt it is full of toxic chemicals as noted by its MSDS sheet; most notably kerosene.
FROM THE 2015 SHOWShow: The explanation at the SHOT Show by the owner of FrogLube of the stickiness noted by some when using the product. To paraphrase, "When winterizing a gun with FrogLube, all excess FrogLube CLP must be removed, especially down in the intricate working areas of the gun. This is best done with a sonic cleaner. Then you are left with the CLP that has penetrated the metal and not actually on the metal." Thus, the gun appears dry, but in actually is protected by the agent being penetrated down in the microscopic pores of the metal.
I started using FrogLube over a year ago and went through the same application procedures you describe. On a cold January day my Sig P229 would not fire. Hammer dropped but no ignition or firing pin impact. Knowing how FrogLube gummed up when cold, I put the unloaded gun on my warm car engine for a few minutes and warmed it up. Then it shot fine! Had to totally dismantle the pistol and clean out all the FL. At the recommendation of a local gunsmith, switched over to Rand CLP. I shoot USPSA, IDPA and 3-Gun and have had no issues with Rand. A little goes a long way and all my firearms run smooth. The Rand never gets sticky and runs in all kinds of weather. I have 2 bottles of FL that will probably never get used. Thanks for the review!
Joe Cerzosie Thanks Joe for the added info.
Joe Cerzosie I agree with you, since I switch to frog lube, all my gun has been jamming. They are stored for only 1 to 2 months and then I take it to the range and they jam, my Springfield 45 acp, 1911 trp and my ps90 all was jamming, so I switch to clp and didn't have one single jam.
+RealGuysReviews Yup, I use a compressor to blow off the excess after I dip my gun parts in an old crock pot of FL. Unlike oil, it works fine even if you don't see the stuff on the gun. That's the mistake I made when I first started using FL, like Joe and itsmylegzz I didn't remove the excess. Once this error was corrected the stuff worked wonderfully. And it leaves the finish protected and looking absolutely beautiful.
+Jake Lonergan Thanks for the update and your info. I really appreciate it. FL owner stated pretty much the same at the Shot Show. It appears, it is hard for many of us to realize, especially me, that ever tho the gun appears dry, it is still protected.
Froglube is a indicator and not only is it best used sparingly but it will find and adhere to any petrol chemical product left on the firearm. If you understand the molecular structure of the product it is small and dense petrol or any distillate of petrol is a very large molecule and blocks the froglube from the pore of the metal creating a cluster of molecule traffic on the surface .... if you add carbon to this you get more collections of things on the surface. our complete system is the only system of its kind in the world and we are introducing a new super degreaser in production now.....
Thanks so much for the info on FrogLube. I have had absolutely no problem with it when using it correctly and sparingly. Again, I really appreciate your comment and I look forward trying the new degreaser when it comes out.
Several years ago I assembled an AR 15 from parts that I accumulated from a variety of different places over a period of time. Head space was on the tight side but would just lock on the go gauge. With some ammo it would lock but not fire. I had cleaned the bolt lugs and lug recesses well. On an empty chamber the bolt would not lock if closed slowly but would if slammed shut under spring tension. I completely disassembled the bolt and carrier group, heated the metal parts until too hot to touch, coated them with Frog Lube gel and let them cool. I wiped all traces of Frog Lube off with a dry cloth and reassembled the rifle. It was noticeably slicker and clicked shut when closed slowly. It no longer jammed. Frog lube has it's uses.
Thanks so much for your informative and honest review! Well Done!
ChuckHydro I appreciate the comment Chuck.
did the froglube work better when you started to use it sparingly? Did it still gunk up?
I have had no problems using it sparingly. However, I still use Ballistol / Hoppe's for most of my guns. I like to do a quick cleaning after shooting at the range and a quick cleaning is just not easy for me to do with the FrogLube.
I have no issues with good ole number 9
johnnieace45 Me neither. I almost always run it through my bores. Thanks for viewing and commenting.
This is why I like RGR everyone else is bowing to this product, but like you many of my fire arms are locked, loaded and stored in a safe some go months without use. I don't want this to happen to me. I was considering using it because I just cold blued several of my older guns and Hoppes #9 can be a little harsh on the finish. Hoppes has been my tried and true for 35 yrs and will continue to be. I'll just buy some extra Oxphoblue from Brownells Thanx again for the video
Leon S. Thanks Leon for the comment. Interesting agent and obviously works for a lot of shooters, but I am still quite biased for Ballistol, BF CLP, and Hoppe's.
Leon S. Leon my followup info on FL to another viewer who asked me for the info:
NOTE in my follow up experience with FL after the video:
My continual experience with FrogLube is not as positive as many have noted. Even using it sparingly, I have noticed a "stickiness" especially after a gun sits up for a period of time. This however might be only my perceived problem, as when the gun heats up as it is shot, the FL appears to do its job by liquifying and releasing the hydrocarbons to be wiped off - but I simply do not like the feel of it before the gun is shot. So the FL is probably working as advertised and again many out there swear by it, and some in situations where the gun is used daily in their job in potential life threatening situations. I also admit I am very biased for Ballistol, BF CLP and Hoppe's (in the bore) as they have worked so great for me over the years and especially the way I use them. By the way I use them, I can clean a gun out at the range in 5 minutes with them and I cannot do this with FL; so I find myself not cleaning as often with the FL (and maybe you don't need to). That is not FL's fault, but just the way I like to do things. Also, I do not like to relegate a gun to be a FL gun - and it is recommended that after a gun is cleaned with FL, one should not use any other chemicals while the FL is the primary cleaning agent in the gun. FL being a completely "green" agent is a really good thing but Ballistol is also very safe being made of medicinal grade mineral oil. I shoot some lead, and many reloads so I am compulsive cleaning my guns - and thus utilize what I feel does the best FOR ME - BF CLP and Ballistol.
I am new to the FL. Excellent, in-depth review! I was impressed by your research. Should note that you are not the first nor will you apparently be the last to report about storage problems, I've switched over to FL for guns that I shoot frequently, but would indeed hesitate or take some corrective action if storing for more than a couple or three months. Thanks!.
Thanks for the comment. I still use Ballistol on most of my guns as it is easier for me to clean at the range and I can still use other agents as Hoppes and CLP when I prefer. Until it is cleaned out of the gun, FL pretty much designates that gun as a FL gun and that makes it inconvenient for me with some of my frequently shot guns. The jury is still out for me with FL.
***** It was difficult for me to switch over to give FL a try, especially when conventional oils and solvents have worked so well for me in the past, but I must say, though I am not prepared to make a decision about using it exclusively, my guns clean easier and look cleaner than ever in using the product. The wintergreen smell is certainly not offensive to me, as others have been (just about everything else, especially brake cleaner, Hoppe's #9, etc,).
Great info and I appreciate your input about FL.
The stickiness is a concern. I have taken my stainless steel guns to be used with FL and my composite and one blue Python (my dark guns) to remain with older cleaners and oil. I have noticed the revolver 686+ doesn't spin the cylinder as freely and the Kimber slide is very slow. I will be taking them in this condition to the range. I have no doubt once some rounds are shot that the heat will loosen up everything but I, like others, need the first round to fire and I have not gained the confidence that this will happen. I keep my Px4 currently with the "old" system as my home defense. I like the concept of FL and yes I also want it to be successful since it is green and not toxic to the environment. Again for a weapon used for life or death needs to work. I am really interested to see if the 686 fires on the first shot. The hammer "seems" to be slower but maybe the strike pressure is the same. Lets see. I appreciate any comments of from the safe to the range experiences.
Robt C Thanks for the input. I really appreciate the added info.
Why are you lubing a revolver? Wipe down outside for storage yes, otherwise NO NO NO.
Great video. What about guns that are used primarily for home defense and will spend most of their time in a hand gun vault? Is there one better for guns that spend more time in storage than at a range? Thanks again
this was a really good review sir. good pace, its like we're talking about it over coffee or something. I'm planning to ditch my oldie gun oils and try this out on my competition gun. thanks and happy shooting!
tnh723 Thanks for the comment.I appreciate it. Let me know the results.
thank u that was a very good video lots of info
Jrad Librando I appreciate the comment.
Your concerns have been echoed many times over on gun forums. Gums up firing mechanisms etc. I, like many others, also believe that this product was not "developed" by this navy seal, but rather is a product similar to INOX mx3, with a bit of coloring and fragrance, then marked up in price several hundred percent.
I appreciate the info and your taking time to view the video.
I really like the non bias review, one of the best. Your so right about the concerns, my Glock got really sticky and I am doing a little research my self. I do know the original formula was PAO but Froglube states it removed the PAO in their new formula. I think the new additive is making it sticky because I have Old and New FL and the old stuff is far far better and is still being made by Seal1.net they invented the original FL. I wish they stayed with the original manufacturer, I wonder if you could try both bio lubes from both companies and let us know what Green product to stick with or not stick with so to speak haha.
Oh also the original FL never had any plant material in it, it basicaly is Tallow, like the old Wonderlube made by Oxyoke Originals back in the day. Apparently also a product made by the Seal1 guys. Maybe try all three bio lubes....
Great info guys. Thanks for commenting. That makes a lot of sense that new additives might have caused some of the sticky problems. PAO is a great product and has been used in CLP for years. Maybe FL should have stayed with it. I have redone several guns with FL using it sparingly and they seem to work well with it thus far.
Shoooterzombie has some incorrect information in his post .... but with how through ***** is i am sure you will find the correct info ....
Theyve evolved over the years. And have taken out some of the bad stuff, im guesing its the poly whatever you were talking about. Look on James Yeagers page, he has a video with the creator SEAL who makes it and he describes how they at that time were working on a new formula to take that out and make it even better. Among other things in the video. Good watch.
mmaviator22 Thanks for the comment, I appreciate it. Actually the polyalphaolephin is the compound in many CLP agents that is the active ingredient that makes them work, like in BreakFree CLP. It does not create any of the problems noted. If FrogLube took out polyalphapolephin then that is not a plus for me. When we talked to the FrogLube CEO at the 2015 SHOT Show he said they recommended putting the gun in an ultrasonic cleaner after you clean with FrogLube and that would stop any problems with stickiness but still leave the agent in the metal grooves to work. That makes little sense to me but that was their statement - not mine. If you have a chance check out my video discussing active ingredients in BreakFreeCLP, Ballistol and Hoppe's. I'm no expert, just stating what works for me and quoting what is out there in the literature about the agents. If I seemed to slam FrogLube that was not my intent - I used it wrong and that created my problem. Thanks again for commenting.
I understand, im just new to cleaning glocks and hand guns in general. I definitely know I dont want a buncha oil all over my gun. I was thinking about finding something to clean it and then maybe using some kind of grease or gun butter or something to just coat it easily and without the oil mess. Any recommendations? Thanks again. And yes good vids.
mmaviator22 I like to "handle" my guns so I enjoy the cleaning process. A lot of the times, I clean them at my range after I get through shooting and I can do this quickly and efficiently with Ballistol. Cleaning with FrogLube and SEAL1 is a little more time consuming - not much, but not as easy for me as at the range. I do not necessarily follow manufactures' recommendations; but here is my normal every day process: I use wipes or a toothbrush and clean the gun parts with Ballistol to get off as much carbon as I can. I then wipe down the excess lubricant. I clean my barrel bores usually with Hoppe's 9 and if I have shot a lot of reloads, clean the bore with a more aggressive agent to get out the lead and sometimes even soak the barrel in a 50:50 vinegar / water solution. I brush the barrel bore as well as run patches through it usually with Hoppes 9 and or Ballistol. I then always run a bore snake thru the barrel several times at the end of the cleaning process and then finish up with a patch of Ballistol thru the barrel. I rarely use gun oil, and let the Ballistol be my lube (or FrogLube, SEAL1, etc. if used). The cleaning agent in Ballistol is medicinal grade mineral oil so is non toxic and actually good for what ever it gets on. If I use SEAL1, I clean the gun first thru the ultrasonic cleaner and then very lightly lube the gun with SEAL1 after taking it out. I will not use the ultrasonic again unless the gun is really dirty. It is just fun to try out different methods. Keeps me young and eager...Thanks for your interest in the videos. I enjoy sharing what I can that might peak your interest in this great sport.
Seconds away from ordering Froglube then came across your video. Whew! That was close. Kahr 380 doesn't need any help to malfunction. Will never buy another Kahr. Just got Ruger LC9S stricker fired. No malfunctions. Guess which one I'm carrying.
Ed Zweiger Thanks for viewing and commenting.
With all due to respect to the reviewer you must consider based on his experience he may never agree that the product is working as designed even if it is. I say this because I have had bad experiences with products that others raved about. Doesn't mean I'm right doesn't mean I wrong, opinions vary. I would encourage you to look at other reviews that dispelled certain myths such as cold weather operation of the firearm etc. There are many reviews on this product and if the findings were heavily slanted against the product I would say stick with what your using. But I never have subscribed to " if it isn't broken don't fix it" on the contrary " If it isn't broken..break it!" It's the evolution in everything we own, vehicles, computers, phones, weapons and yes even cleaning supplies. While field reviews are important in helping us make decisions you may be avoiding what I believe to be a great product. I would encourage you to try it. If you don't like it you're out a few bucks. My guess is this wouldn't be the first mistake you or any of us have made. I don't just like it, I'm overly impressed. BTW, it's not in my nature to endorse products.
Great comment Black Bullitt and I could not agree with you more. I appreciate your viewing and commenting. By the way after using FL in several guns, I already agree the product does work as designed. The following is an additional comment I added to the comment section of the video in follow up and as you state this is one man's observation and should be taken as such:
NOTE in my follow up experience with FL after the video:
My continual experience with FrogLube is not as positive as many have noted. Even using it sparingly, I have noticed a "stickiness" especially after a gun sits up for a period of time. This however might be only my perceived problem, as when the gun heats up as it is shot, the FL appears to do its job by liquifying and releasing the hydrocarbons to be wiped off - but I simply do not like the feel of it before the gun is shot. So the FL is probably working as advertised and again many out there swear by it, and some in situations where the gun is used daily in their job in potential life threatening situations. I also admit I am very biased for Ballistol, BF CLP and Hoppe's (in the bore) as they have worked so great for me over the years and especially the way I use them. By the way I use them, I can clean a gun out at the range in 5 minutes with them and I cannot do this with FL; so I find myself not cleaning as often with the FL (and maybe you don't need to). That is not FL's fault, but just the way I like to do things. Also, I do not like to relegate a gun to be a FL gun - and it is recommended that after a gun is cleaned with FL, one should not use any other chemicals while the FL is the primary cleaning agent in the gun. FL being a completely "green" agent is a really good thing but Ballistol is also very safe being made of medicinal grade mineral oil. I shoot some lead, and many reloads so I am compulsive cleaning my guns - and thus utilize what I feel does the best FOR ME - BF CLP and Ballistol. My opinin and observation - try it for youself and let us know your observation. Thanks
+Black Bullitt Terrific comment, BB! One fine point with FL might be to blow off the excess with a compressor. If you don't you will get some FL running down on you when you get the gun heated up at the range. Not really a big deal and no worse than having oil seeping out the rails. I have found FL to leave a nice sheen on my black pistols and AR's, just beautiful and great protection from rust.
Also, Ed might not know that his Kahr 380 is a great example of what you wrote. RGR loves the product and was an influence on my buying both a Kahr CW380 and CW9. Yes, the CW380 malfunctioned quite a bit for the first 100 rounds (the CW9 was fine after two magazines) but 100-300 of the break-in rounds have been perfect. As have the Hornady Critical Defense rounds I tested through them after the first 300. Giving up on something too soon has always been a problem of mine but I'm glad I didn't with FL and Kahr.
Wow! What an excellent, in depth review! Very nice job. After a brief infatuation with frog lube, I've decided to go (stay) with mil-comm. But after this review, I wouldn't ever be terribly surprised to learn that the fundamental chemistry of these things are similar (PAO-type agents). In this modern age, I don't think there are any "secrets formulas" left in chemistry--with enough money spent, anybody can completely reverse engineer most any chemical recipe. If a company REALLY has something new and wonderful they created in the organic chemistry lab, they will patent that new molecule and then it won't HAVE to be secret.
I think you are right on. Thanks for viewing and commenting.
Thank you for responding. And regarding cleaning, can I ask your opinion/what you did? I am getting the picture that I don't run a cleaner (Hoppes) or a wire brush down the barrel after shooting, ever again, that dry wiping and reapplying Frog Lube is enough. Do you think that is their intended message? Or would I scrub a gunky barrel as usual, then reapply? My experience with self cleaning bike chain lubes is you eventually have to clean the chain off eventually to reapply. What is your method for cleaning? Do you have a video on anything that basic. Thanks. Bill H.
Bill, FrogLube has not been a full transition for me. I have my cleaning supplies in an ammo box and usually take it to my range with me and unless pressed for time, clean my guns prior to packing up and heading home. I can do this in a matter of minutes with a combination of Hoppe's and Ballistol but cannot do this very easily with FrogLube. Throughout the years - for better of worse - I have used very little if any gun oil (just use the Ballistol to lube) because of the way oil tends to gum, especially in the finer parts of the gun. I am especially sparing with any agent around the firing pin. Less is definitely better than more in gun cleaning. That is my preference and although it is not necessarily a recommendation of gun manfacturers; it works for me. I still use Hoppes's and Ballistol mostly. What I do not like about FrogLube is that when you clean a gun of all the petrol agents to prepare to use FrogLube, you are not suppose to use them again after and while you use the FrogLube. You have basically designated that gun as a "FrogLube" gun - and actually they state that only FrogLube alone is needed to fully clean the gun at that point. I have a hard time fully believing that FrogLube can replace everything. Those are the details of it that I do not like. I have two videos just on gun cleaning. "Gun Cleaning: Glock, Charter Arms, Pitbull, Ruger, SR9c" and "Not Just Another: Gun Cleaning Video". These videos were early on in my videos so are poorly edited and not my favorite but will give you some idea of my technique. Also, early on, I showed cleaning with many of the field strip videos but I stoped that to shorten the videos. I clean guns the way it has worked for me for over 40 years now - and all I can say is that it has done ok by me. Old dogs - new tricks I guess. I really appreciate your interest in the videos. Learning from each other makes doing the channel every more fun. Sorry if I was too verbose in answering.
I once overlubed a FNX-45 Tactical with Froglube paste. It started weeping on the range so much my hand was wet. I was lucky to have brought along a micro-fiber towel so I could wipe it down. No malfunctions, but this was in the summer in TN so no worries about the cold.
Thanks for the info. I appreciate it.
Thanks for the detailed response (if they ever elected a "King of Verbosity," I fear I would beat you and everyone else out for the title...). To me, verbose means more words than necessary. You certainly don't do anything near that. You are extremely concise. This is a part of your gift. I am sorry to suggest that the payback for that gift is you will continue to question yourself and your performance. I understand this is a standard issue feature that goes with leadership. But don't think for a minute there is anything you say that is not of significant value to me. I am floundering and very grateful for your help. I, too, have a hard time believing I can let the old methods be replaced. I also am a type of leader, that is, I will try it, understanding the reserves I need to stop disaster (know where the brakes are, and apply in time, type of philosophy.) You have given me much instruction. Let me work a little and I'll let you know my on-going results. Thank you for helping me. Bill H.
Appreciate the info and I look forward hearing back from you on this and other videos.
I really enjoy your reviews. I'm a new gun owner and need all the help I can get. After many reviews of frog Lube I've decided to go with ballistol. I her a lot about the stickyness of frog lube and that concerns me. You stated you used Ballistol and so does Hickok45 and still does. I wouldn't want my gun jumming up when I needed it the most. I really enjoy your down home approach to the videos. I'm an ol country boy myself and a new gun owner. I have watched several videos on frog lube an most state that the gun gets sticky when not in use. Again thanks for your reviews.
Paul Spears Sometimes I am a creature of habit and it is hard for me to get away from what I am use to. However, technology is always changing and I do like to try different things. There are a lot of different agents out there and specifically great bore cleaners and protectors and I do like to try different ones occasionally. One thing I know tho about Ballistol or BreakFree CLP and then Hoppe's thru the Bore - is for me at least it works quite well and has for a long time AND if Hickok45 uses it, then pretty much enough said. Thanks Paul for taking the time to comment.
Will you be doing a follow up video to this one? I'd be interested in hearing about your more recent frog lube experience and/or if you've gone back to Ballistol or BF CLP.
dinonoce My continual experience with FrogLube is not as positive as many have noted. Even using it sparingly, I have noticed a "stickiness" especially after a gun sits up for a period of time. This however might be only my perceived problem, as when the gun heats up as it is shot, the FL appears to do its job by liquifying and releasing the hydrocarbons to be wiped off - but I simply do not like the feel of it before the gun is shot. So the FL is probably working as advertised and again many out there swear by it, and some in situations where the gun is used daily in their job in potential life threatening situations. I also admit I am very biased for Ballistol, BF CLP and Hoppe's (in the bore) as they have worked so great for me over the years and especially the way I use them. By the way I use them, I can clean a gun out at the range in 5 minutes with them and I cannot do this with FL; so I find myself not cleaning as often with the FL (and maybe you don't need to). That is not FL's fault, but just the way I like to do things. Also, I do not like to relegate a gun to be a FL gun - and it is recommended that after a gun is cleaned with FL, one should not use any other chemicals while the FL is the primary cleaning agent in the gun. FL being a completely "green" agent is a really good thing but Ballistol is also very safe being made of medicinal grade mineral oil. I shoot some lead, and many reloads so I am compulsive cleaning my guns - and thus utilize what I feel does the best FOR ME - BF CLP and Ballistol. Thanks for your interest in my videos and also I appreciate your bringing this specific question up for further discussion and follow up.
Gunzilla is also made from plants.
I have not heard of problems with it. Thanks for viewing and commenting.
Glad to watch a video that includes independent and relevant outside research. Thanks for this froglube review AND the follow up comments.
I appreciate the comment and I appreciate your viewing commenting on several other videos also. Comments make the channel more informative and fun.
I read that it was a modified rollercoaster track lube...look up tracklube+ it seems to be VERY similar.
Thanks for the info.
Seal1 is much better than FlogLube because it doesn't gum up and it protects it the same or even better.
JC OV Seal1 is probably the real deal in this category. Thanks for the comment.
JC OV The explanation at the SHOT Show by the owner of FrogLube of the stickiness noted by some when using the product. To paraphrase, "When winterizing a gun with FrogLube, all excess FrogLube CLP must be removed, especially down in the intricate working areas of the gun. This is best done with a sonic cleaner. Then you are left with the CLP that has penetrated the metal and not actually on the metal." Thus, the gun appears dry, but in actually is protected by the agent being penetrated down in the microscopic pores of the metal. Thanks for viewing JC OV.
+RealGuysReviews yeah, so that tells me I need to buy a sonic cleaner to winterize my gun? lol no way. if I have to buy equipment for my lube, im not buying that lube
I tried it sparingly and it still is "sticky". It makes no sense to me either to FrogLUbe your gun and then sonic clean it. Thanks for the comment.
I like the way you share the things you like about products and the things that are concerns, that may or may not be a real issue.
Thanks Vern for viewing and commenting. I do not feel I have the expertiese to do anything in the videos other than try to inform you and share the research that I come across. Then, hopefully, I give enough data to help you either make a decision in the matter or do further research as you see fit.
I appreciate your testing and opinion... very well done Sir. My opinion varies slightly. I live in south east Texas where it rarely gets really cold and FrogLube has performed exemplary. My Glocks and ARs feel as if they are running on ball bearings and I will continue its use as long as I live here in the south. Merry Christmas and may God bless.
Bill Hop Thanks very much for the added info, Bill. No doubt FrogLube works well for many. I must admit I am pretty prejudice for Ballistol and Break Free.
Back at you. I used Break Free for years with pleasing results. Never tried Ballistol. To me Frog Lube just gives a slicker feel to my weapons actions.
I use clp and mobile -1 ,and automatic transmission fluid.
+MyRebel44 Many good options for sure. Thanks for the info.
Isn't it nice to know that even after 5 1/2 years, your video is still relevant. Thanks for the info.
Appreciate the comment..Thanks for viewing and commenting. I really appreciate it.
I appreciate your viewing even after 5 years. I have had some issues that have kept me out of action for several years but am going strong now. thanks
so should you put it in the firing pin? or in various springs?
Jacob Bridges Jacob, I am cautious of any lub around the firing pin and am very sparing of anything in the intricate mechanisms of a pistol. For example, H&K does not recommend any of the "penetrate" lubes like FrogLube to be used with their guns; as they state (in the VP9 manual) they might create a primer malfunction. Very sparingly is the deal with any CLP product; one situation where less is definitely better. Thanks for viewing.
What song is in the opening, It sounds so familiar!
It is a free enterprise tune out of Garage Band called Acoustic Sunrise. We came across it several years ago when we started producing the videos and it just stuck kinda with us as "ours". Thanks for viewing.
Good info. Thanks for posting.
Appreciate your viewing and commenting.
How you liking it so far?
I like FrogLube just fine when after using it correctly. However, it does not fit me very well in my cleaning methods. I like to clean my guns as I get ready to leave my range and can do so very easily and quickly with Ballistol and Hoppe's. Also, I am not fond of the fact that when you clean a gun of all the petrol agents to prepare to use FrogLube, you are not suppose to use them again after and while you use the FrogLube. You have basically designated that gun as a "FrogLube" gun. The "hassle" is using it definitely limits my use of it. Thanks for asking and viewing.
Good review, thanks!
Dennis Adams Thanks for the comment.
It works for me and thanks for the video.
Thanks Ed. From the comments I received, I simply put too much on. The same results would have happened with the other cleaners. Thanks for the comment.
***** Then sootch's video should not be followed. And a lot of people seem to recommend it. I've done two liberal applications with heat and I'm just going to wipe the FL off after a range session or two without applying any more of it.
Thanks for your comment Ed. I appreciate it.
i like FL and have used it for 2 years.
+Barry Newman I appreciate the comment and your viewing.