Thank you for being my teachers and one of the collection of mentors that have sprung up in this incredible chapter of my life that are guiding me through a very transformative and many cases a very emotional journey. There have been many moments especially in my meditative sessions where I feel so connected to everything that my identity becomes reality itself, even the “non alive” elements like a chair or a book. I don’t know where this journey is taking me, places I don’t expect, sometimes with painful moments internally but also extraordinary moments like seeing in real time that my thoughts have many layers and I could see and even feel the different spectrums of meaning within them. I think there are an infinite modalities for learning, and we’ve been stuck on a narrow spectrum of doing it for so long that we forget to realize that there are so so many other ways to learn and evolve. But changing maps of reality, sudden or gradual is a painful process and we instinctively avoid pain even though it’s a powerful transformative experience after you embrace it, deeply feel and reflect on it and in the end just build much much stronger and robust maps to reality to navigate though it and with it.
Excellent summary. Laura truly excels at listening for understanding, reframing, and asking insightful technical questions. DSRP is indeed a fundamental skill for innovators. The most common mistake? Jumping prematurely from a problem to a solution-almost always leading to the wrong answer. Most people approach challenges with a problem-solving mindset, instead of focusing on identifying and addressing a critical unmet need of others. This requires understanding the entire ecosystem and empathizing with others with diverse perspectives. Ultimately, the metric of success is value created and delivered, though measuring this is subjective and challenging.
Hey Doctors Cabrera, I've been really enjoying the podcast! I was wondering if you could help me to clear up something I am having trouble understanding. I know that tone can be hard to convey on the internet, so, please don't view this comment as a snarky criticism, I'm really trying my best to understand! Lastly, I've long been interested in non-dualist philosophies, so I'm sure that will color my understanding (or misunderstanding, haha) of this subject. The idea that relationships, distinctions, systems and perspectives arise together intuitively resonates. To me, DSRP is a single thing, that basically delineates the "powers" of consciousness. So since DSRP arise together - why do we distinguish between them? Where I might be getting lost is - to me, falling in love with reality would be zooming out, beyond the confines of conceptual thought, distinctions, systems and perspectives. To me the clearest expression of being would be if we could inhabit a mind where pure consciousness, or being resided without the filter of our symbols/abstractions/commentary. Is one reason we experience ourselves as distinct entities, because our mind is so busy making distinctions? Sorry for the long comment - I guess the core of my question is - is DSRP a single thing? Full disclosure, I was not the best student so could just be a case of things going over my head (would not be the first time haha!). Apologies in advance to the Doctors Cabrera if this is silly question and/or completely misses the mark of everything you are explaining. Thanks so much for doing this and making it public it is helping me in my studies!
Thank you for your thoughtful question and for sharing your insights. It's wonderful to hear that you're engaging deeply with the concepts discussed in the podcast. You've touched on a profound aspect of cognition and perception. The idea that Distinctions, Systems, Relationships, and Perspectives (DSRP) arise together resonates with many philosophies, including non-dualism. While DSRP can be seen as interconnected aspects of a single cognitive process, distinguishing between them allows us to examine and understand how our minds construct reality. LEt me break down your post into a few of the questions: Why distinguish between DSRP Patterns (and elements)? Although DSRP Patterns (and elements) arise simultaneously, breaking them down helps us become aware of the mental structures we use to interpret the world. This awareness can lead to more intentional thinking and communication. By identifying distinctions, we recognize how we separate concepts; by examining systems, we see how parts form wholes; by exploring relationships, we understand connections; and by considering perspectives, we acknowledge different viewpoints. The idea is that by recognizing these DSRP structures we can compare and contrast them to the DSRP structures that we can derive evidence for and align better with reality. Experiencing reality beyond conceptual thought Your desire to "zoom out" beyond distinctions and perspectives aligns with the goal of experiencing reality in its purest form. Non-dualist philosophies often emphasize the importance of transcending mental constructs to connect with a more profound sense of being. In this view, our habitual use of abstractions can create a barrier between us and direct experience. This is precisely why DSRP is so different from other conceptual theories-it starts with how nature (reality) organizes information. Are we distinct because we make Distinctions? Yes, in a way. The act of making distinctions is fundamental to how we define ourselves and the world around us. It's through this process that we create categories, identities, and meanings. However, it's also possible to become so engrossed in these mental constructs that we lose sight of the underlying unity of experience. The DSRP Patterns, and especially the 8 elements are more like dimensions of this unity, rather than distinctly different elements. For example, the unity that is YOU is simultaneously an identity, an other, a part, a whole, an action, a reaction, and a point and view! Director's Commentary Your analogy of thoughts being like a director's commentary is insightful. Just as commentary can enhance or detract from a movie, our constant stream of thoughts can either deepen our experience or pull us away from the present moment. Mindfulness practices often encourage observing thoughts without attachment, allowing us to experience life more fully without the overlay of continuous interpretation. If you permit me to extend the movie metaphor, imagine that your everyday experience is like watching a movie on fast forward-you don’t notice a lot of the nuance and detail. By practicing DSRP you realize that you're on fast forward and press PLAY. Then you can watch the movie at regular (slowed down) speed and see all of the characters and interactions, dialogue and events. You start to see the detail (even though life isn’t actually slowing down, you’re just speeding up your processing power and taking in more!). Your questions are far from silly-they delve into the essence of how we perceive and engage with reality. Many thanks!
@@DerekCabrera1 Thank you so much for taking the time to reply in a way I could understand. I hope your answer is helpful to others who have similar questions! From your answer, I can now see that breaking down DSRP is not at odds with non-dualism. Far from it! DSRP can act as a method to get clearer view of our shared reality. I don't want to take any more of your time - but last question as it relates to my future study... I just enrolled in an MsC program at the Open University called STiP (systems thinking in practice). While many of the ideas are interesting and congruent - some of the scholarly work referenced seems to be of an earlier way of Systems thinking? I don't mean to disparage the program by any means but much of the research is based on anecdotal applications or case studies, rather than refined, robust study of the applicability of the proposed frameworks. Is taking an MsC like this a fool's errand, or can I still apply DSRP in my dissertation/research so that I can ensure I am working towards understanding a school of thought that resonates with my goal of better understanding reality and Non-Dualism? Anyway thank you for the time you've given me and I understand if you cant get back to me! I can assure you I will re-read your previous answer a bunch of times. Thank you Dr Cabrera!
@@md9418 Great question, I can't speak for what OU will allow you to do but I do know that (1) they are committed to certain frameworks and (2) MOST (read almost all) of the frameworks of systems thinking have little to know empirical evidence behind them. It was one of my chief frustrations as a doctoral student and the reason why we have spent 30 years studying systems thinking from a theoretical and empirical perspective. Most of what is out there amounts to little more than the anecdotal opinions of "experts". Also the reason why all of our research papers are available for free online. I'm still waiting to see the research that supports the many frameworks that OU and other universities teach in ST... ;-)
@@DerekCabrera1 Dang! Hate to hear that but appreciate your honesty. It's definitely discouraging both as a student and someone interested in having a clearer view of reality. I'm sure I will get a ton out of it, but I hope I don't end up feeling like I'm taking astrology when I could be taking astronomy. I may be making an unfair, pre-judgement and OU may be open to the DSRP Framework. Fingers crossed! Hopefully, I can figure out a way to make the most of my study - perhaps in following the bibliography on Cabrera labs research and the free published papers. I also recently did the TQ test and signed up for Plectica to use in my studies. Thanks for the help and appreciate the candor!
Derek, you might be interested in psychologist "Tony Attwood on asperger syndrome, like Is Asperger's syndrome the next stage of human evolution?: Tony Attwood | Australian Story" ua-cam.com/video/vdQDvLXLqiM/v-deo.html . In one of his presentations he says: If you talk to an aspie about Thinking outside the box, the response you get is: "What box???" I absolutely love your discussions. Well done Laura for getting the info and insights all within view, or rather hearing!
Thank you for being my teachers and one of the collection of mentors that have sprung up in this incredible chapter of my life that are guiding me through a very transformative and many cases a very emotional journey. There have been many moments especially in my meditative sessions where I feel so connected to everything that my identity becomes reality itself, even the “non alive” elements like a chair or a book. I don’t know where this journey is taking me, places I don’t expect, sometimes with painful moments internally but also extraordinary moments like seeing in real time that my thoughts have many layers and I could see and even feel the different spectrums of meaning within them. I think there are an infinite modalities for learning, and we’ve been stuck on a narrow spectrum of doing it for so long that we forget to realize that there are so so many other ways to learn and evolve. But changing maps of reality, sudden or gradual is a painful process and we instinctively avoid pain even though it’s a powerful transformative experience after you embrace it, deeply feel and reflect on it and in the end just build much much stronger and robust maps to reality to navigate though it and with it.
The hard work pays off. Keep it up!
Excellent summary. Laura truly excels at listening for understanding, reframing, and asking insightful technical questions. DSRP is indeed a fundamental skill for innovators. The most common mistake? Jumping prematurely from a problem to a solution-almost always leading to the wrong answer. Most people approach challenges with a problem-solving mindset, instead of focusing on identifying and addressing a critical unmet need of others. This requires understanding the entire ecosystem and empathizing with others with diverse perspectives. Ultimately, the metric of success is value created and delivered, though measuring this is subjective and challenging.
Good point. We see this all the time with our grad students!
Thank you! We agree that Laura is amazing!
NOW THATS WHAT ONE CALL AWESOME . KICK THE MYTH THAT I WAS HAVING. THANKS A TON SIR AND MAAM AND WHOLE TEAM ESP ELENA. WAITING EAGERLY FOR NEXT ONE
Good to hear!
Hey Doctors Cabrera, I've been really enjoying the podcast! I was wondering if you could help me to clear up something I am having trouble understanding. I know that tone can be hard to convey on the internet, so, please don't view this comment as a snarky criticism, I'm really trying my best to understand! Lastly, I've long been interested in non-dualist philosophies, so I'm sure that will color my understanding (or misunderstanding, haha) of this subject.
The idea that relationships, distinctions, systems and perspectives arise together intuitively resonates. To me, DSRP is a single thing, that basically delineates the "powers" of consciousness. So since DSRP arise together - why do we distinguish between them? Where I might be getting lost is - to me, falling in love with reality would be zooming out, beyond the confines of conceptual thought, distinctions, systems and perspectives.
To me the clearest expression of being would be if we could inhabit a mind where pure consciousness, or being resided without the filter of our symbols/abstractions/commentary. Is one reason we experience ourselves as distinct entities, because our mind is so busy making distinctions? Sorry for the long comment - I guess the core of my question is - is DSRP a single thing?
Full disclosure, I was not the best student so could just be a case of things going over my head (would not be the first time haha!). Apologies in advance to the Doctors Cabrera if this is silly question and/or completely misses the mark of everything you are explaining. Thanks so much for doing this and making it public it is helping me in my studies!
Thank you for your thoughtful question and for sharing your insights. It's wonderful to hear that you're engaging deeply with the concepts discussed in the podcast.
You've touched on a profound aspect of cognition and perception. The idea that Distinctions, Systems, Relationships, and Perspectives (DSRP) arise together resonates with many philosophies, including non-dualism. While DSRP can be seen as interconnected aspects of a single cognitive process, distinguishing between them allows us to examine and understand how our minds construct reality. LEt me break down your post into a few of the questions:
Why distinguish between DSRP Patterns (and elements)?
Although DSRP Patterns (and elements) arise simultaneously, breaking them down helps us become aware of the mental structures we use to interpret the world. This awareness can lead to more intentional thinking and communication. By identifying distinctions, we recognize how we separate concepts; by examining systems, we see how parts form wholes; by exploring relationships, we understand connections; and by considering perspectives, we acknowledge different viewpoints. The idea is that by recognizing these DSRP structures we can compare and contrast them to the DSRP structures that we can derive evidence for and align better with reality.
Experiencing reality beyond conceptual thought
Your desire to "zoom out" beyond distinctions and perspectives aligns with the goal of experiencing reality in its purest form. Non-dualist philosophies often emphasize the importance of transcending mental constructs to connect with a more profound sense of being. In this view, our habitual use of abstractions can create a barrier between us and direct experience. This is precisely why DSRP is so different from other conceptual theories-it starts with how nature (reality) organizes information.
Are we distinct because we make Distinctions?
Yes, in a way. The act of making distinctions is fundamental to how we define ourselves and the world around us. It's through this process that we create categories, identities, and meanings. However, it's also possible to become so engrossed in these mental constructs that we lose sight of the underlying unity of experience. The DSRP Patterns, and especially the 8 elements are more like dimensions of this unity, rather than distinctly different elements. For example, the unity that is YOU is simultaneously an identity, an other, a part, a whole, an action, a reaction, and a point and view!
Director's Commentary
Your analogy of thoughts being like a director's commentary is insightful. Just as commentary can enhance or detract from a movie, our constant stream of thoughts can either deepen our experience or pull us away from the present moment. Mindfulness practices often encourage observing thoughts without attachment, allowing us to experience life more fully without the overlay of continuous interpretation. If you permit me to extend the movie metaphor, imagine that your everyday experience is like watching a movie on fast forward-you don’t notice a lot of the nuance and detail. By practicing DSRP you realize that you're on fast forward and press PLAY. Then you can watch the movie at regular (slowed down) speed and see all of the characters and interactions, dialogue and events. You start to see the detail (even though life isn’t actually slowing down, you’re just speeding up your processing power and taking in more!).
Your questions are far from silly-they delve into the essence of how we perceive and engage with reality. Many thanks!
@@DerekCabrera1 Thank you so much for taking the time to reply in a way I could understand. I hope your answer is helpful to others who have similar questions! From your answer, I can now see that breaking down DSRP is not at odds with non-dualism. Far from it! DSRP can act as a method to get clearer view of our shared reality. I don't want to take any more of your time - but last question as it relates to my future study...
I just enrolled in an MsC program at the Open University called STiP (systems thinking in practice). While many of the ideas are interesting and congruent - some of the scholarly work referenced seems to be of an earlier way of Systems thinking?
I don't mean to disparage the program by any means but much of the research is based on anecdotal applications or case studies, rather than refined, robust study of the applicability of the proposed frameworks.
Is taking an MsC like this a fool's errand, or can I still apply DSRP in my dissertation/research so that I can ensure I am working towards understanding a school of thought that resonates with my goal of better understanding reality and Non-Dualism?
Anyway thank you for the time you've given me and I understand if you cant get back to me! I can assure you I will re-read your previous answer a bunch of times. Thank you Dr Cabrera!
@@md9418 Great question, I can't speak for what OU will allow you to do but I do know that (1) they are committed to certain frameworks and (2) MOST (read almost all) of the frameworks of systems thinking have little to know empirical evidence behind them. It was one of my chief frustrations as a doctoral student and the reason why we have spent 30 years studying systems thinking from a theoretical and empirical perspective. Most of what is out there amounts to little more than the anecdotal opinions of "experts". Also the reason why all of our research papers are available for free online. I'm still waiting to see the research that supports the many frameworks that OU and other universities teach in ST... ;-)
@@DerekCabrera1 Dang! Hate to hear that but appreciate your honesty. It's definitely discouraging both as a student and someone interested in having a clearer view of reality. I'm sure I will get a ton out of it, but I hope I don't end up feeling like I'm taking astrology when I could be taking astronomy.
I may be making an unfair, pre-judgement and OU may be open to the DSRP Framework. Fingers crossed! Hopefully, I can figure out a way to make the most of my study - perhaps in following the bibliography on Cabrera labs research and the free published papers. I also recently did the TQ test and signed up for Plectica to use in my studies. Thanks for the help and appreciate the candor!
Derek, you might be interested in psychologist "Tony Attwood on asperger syndrome, like Is Asperger's syndrome the next stage of human evolution?: Tony Attwood | Australian Story" ua-cam.com/video/vdQDvLXLqiM/v-deo.html . In one of his presentations he says: If you talk to an aspie about Thinking outside the box, the response you get is: "What box???"
I absolutely love your discussions. Well done Laura for getting the info and insights all within view, or rather hearing!
@@peterstrous2092 thanks. Will check him out.
Thanks! Will take a look.