Great video and amazing channel! I'm doing a Daggerfall Unity playthrough with a Argonian Sorcerer (uffff! You die quick and often). I've been playing DF since about 96-97 when I got my hands on a scratched-up copy and spell mechanics have always been quirky(brokenish) at best to arcanely nonsensical(totally broken) at worst. (Vanilla Morrowind is not a whole lot better so this seems to be a Bethesda's way of doing things). Playing a Sorcerer, spell point pool is limited and management of said pool becomes extremely important, so this video rundown on spell quirkiness is super-duper-nice!
I recently found out that having a magical item with spell reflection can make the highest-tier monsters in the game much easier (since they often one-shot you before you can even approach them). If you manage to get access to an enchanter and have plenty of gold to craft new magical items, you can make your character nigh invulnerable (levitation and water walking + breathing help a lot as well). Finishing the main quest was a breeze... Just one more reminder that this game heavily favors spellcasters over mundane characters (magical items being the substitute for casting spells).
24:54 - If the target of soul trap can't be dropped below 1hp when no soul gem is available... does it mean you can make an invulnerability spell by casting it on yourself with long duration, and making sure you carry no soul gems?
So I tested this out for a moment and, much to my surprise, this is one aspect of the spell making mechanic which is actually done correctly and without a means to glitch it out: If you select a spell effect which can ONLY be cast on the caster or ONLY be cast on a target, ALL spell effects which are the opposite DISAPPEAR from the spell effect list! Since Soul Trap is a target-only effect it negates the setting to cast it on the caster and also causes caster-only effects like Create Item to disappear from the effect list! That said, if you were to hack Soul Trap into a caster-effect spell... I think the most likely result would be crashing the game. :P
@@Pixelmusement Oh damn, didn't expect a reply to a 3 years old video at all, let alone so soon :D Thank you! It's interesting to have some insight into how the game works and what kind of "cheat" preventions were considered, despite many other aspects of the game being wonky at best. Great video, by the way. Someone I know has linked it to me, and it was an instant sub, followed by binge watching about 10 of your other videos. Stellar work.
Now that Daggerfall Unity is a thing, I think there needs to be more content like this out there. Maybe i'll have to take up that task eventually, though with spell effects there can be a lot of flux, considering that it's still not "officially" fully feature complete.
In Daggerfall you lose reputation with guilds? Imagine you become the Archmage in Skyrim, and the you f off to some other adventure. A courier delivers a letter to you: "Dear Archmage, please come back to the college! There's a lot of paperwork for you to do! We'll find another Archmage if you keep shirking your duties."
+Maddin1313 Absolutely can happen in Daggerfall. If memory serves, the calculation is +5 rep per quest, 10 rep required per rank to attain, and -1 rep for every in-game month that passes. Suffice to say, when Morrowind axed procedural generation, this mechanic stopped making sense, thus why no later TES games have it. :P
Daggerfall is fascinating. Broken fundamentally (and even more so in its retail release), but fascinating nonetheless. I'm more of a fan of Ultima Underworld but I still have plenty of fun with Daggerfall for different reasons.
Slowfall and Flight... there's nostalgia there. Also actually I don't recall always seeing the candle in front of you with the light spell, I think that might depend on what you set it to (either caster or Area at Range). One oddity I recall.... if you're falling, but then you cast flight/levitation, you'll take damage as if you just hit the ground, so you have to be sure to slowfall before casting levitation.
+Jispy Moe Dantes If you set light as a non-caster spell you can cause the light effect to be applied to an enemy, however, this does absolutely nothing. And yes, I'm aware of the levitation oddity and I think that might've been intentional in order to give slowfall a purpose, otherwise yeah, you'd never need more than levitate. :P
I actually could think of a reason to want slowfall even if levitate didn't have that issue--in case you wanted to just stay even with the ground (so that, for example, you don't go void rangering unintentionally). But putting it that way makes me wonder if the *void* was intentional ;)
+Jispy Moe Dantes Reminder that you have no air control while Slowfall is in effect. If you walk off of a ledge you just go soaring with a slight downward trajectory and the rest of your momentum intact, as demonstrated when I walked off the roof, ended up surrounded by a 6-inch-high fence that was solid, and had to CLIMB OVER IT because jumping was still disabled. You're way more likely to void out because of Slowfall than Levitate. :P
Oh, right, I forgot about that. Altho once you're on the ground that wouldn't be a problem. I think I used to always just give slowfall the slowest duration. Then again as a kid I used to also always use editing software to make my character all-powerful. BTW did you ever read about that glitch, that for some reason affects only one town.... I forget how it works but its like if you go into an inn or something there and then save and reload, all the drawers and such will be filled with Daedric equipment.
For non-spellcasters, if possible, join the School of Julianos temple. The create magic item service is VERY useful and can turn even a weaker character into a dungeon exterminator (and also give you a fairly good chance to beat that pesky Main Quest).
This was a fun experiment! Makes me want to try this sort of investigative approach to some of my old favourites. And I know everyone seems to like Daggerfall more, but Arena is totally better. :D
+Ben Chandler It made sense to do it with Daggerfall given how poorly documented a lot of the spell effects were, and given how buggy the game is. It might not be as interesting a process with games where the spells are properly documented and tested, though might still be interesting if the effects of the spells in a game are known, but NOT the magnitudes of those effects! (Gotta get that DPS to MP ratio balanced!)
@@Pixelmusement I think in particular games it might be fun to showcase some of the weirder exploits/tricks that particular spells can have. I know there's some wacky ones in Baldur's Gate, or particular spells which are especially over/underpowered.
I'm assuming you have heard of the daggerfall restoration project Daggerfall Unity (www.dfworkshop.net/), where they fully recreated from scratch the effects system. You may expect most of the actual spell bugs described here fixed, though damage fatigure is as useless as always. Also, I am not sure about vanilla, but if you fortify your attribute past 100 it will still display 100 on the HUD, but actually raises the stat further when the stat is used for effects and such. This is best seen with fortify speed (which in this game also boosts attack speed, not only run/walk) spells, which allow you attack MUCH faster than at 100 speed.
+Sir Light Yup. Haven't really had the time to check it out though and probably won't without making it part of an ADG Mod video sometime next year or something. :P
@@Pixelmusement Yes, was just going to suggest making a mod video, as this one essentially erases all of the frustrations of daggerfall, while mostly retaining authentic experience. Glad to hear you are planning on making a review; hopefully the mod will be out of alpha by that time.
UA-cam's drunk again and failed to let me know this video happened. For shame. Daggerfall's awesome, and since Daggerfall Unity's vanilla complete now, there's not been a better time to talk about it.
That was an insightful video. Looks like you didn't find the Unofficial Elder Scrolls Pages. Google for "uesp Daggerfall:Magic and Spells" to get to it. They have info on all spell effects. There is also Jormungandr83's FAQ with the info. Regarding Jump: Jump at twice natural capacity[this spell is broken in v213 but is fixed by a third-party patch]
+Joe Cool I checked UESP. They have info on the SPELLS, not the individual effects. They list only the descriptive data for the effects instead of what they're actually doing. And yeah, that FAQ entry is wrong because I'm not running with third party patches. :|
Thanks for trying them all out. I never really used Jump because I didn't find it that useful. That's probably why it's wrong in the wiki: no one tried it since...
Heh, last time I played thisg ame, I leveled-up to max rank in 5 guilds. It's not as hard as people think it is. (Note: If I were a spellcaster, I might have even gone for 6 guilds, the sixth one being the Mages Guild :P )
I remember the bug where they only made the stat upgrade buttons invisible. So you could simply raise your stats to max by clicking on the invisible buttons. The game was incredibly bad. It was hyped to high heaven and the bugs were let slide. Took years to reevaluate the game as the crap it was. Which is a pity because the systems were great. I loved the spell maker.
As a recent subscriber, I’m really enjoying the style and subject of your videos. Thank you!
This is very useful information for anyone looking to play Daggerfall.
The lock spell shenanigans cracked me up. Classic Daggerfall.
Great video and amazing channel! I'm doing a Daggerfall Unity playthrough with a Argonian Sorcerer (uffff! You die quick and often). I've been playing DF since about 96-97 when I got my hands on a scratched-up copy and spell mechanics have always been quirky(brokenish) at best to arcanely nonsensical(totally broken) at worst. (Vanilla Morrowind is not a whole lot better so this seems to be a Bethesda's way of doing things). Playing a Sorcerer, spell point pool is limited and management of said pool becomes extremely important, so this video rundown on spell quirkiness is super-duper-nice!
I recently found out that having a magical item with spell reflection can make the highest-tier monsters in the game much easier (since they often one-shot you before you can even approach them). If you manage to get access to an enchanter and have plenty of gold to craft new magical items, you can make your character nigh invulnerable (levitation and water walking + breathing help a lot as well). Finishing the main quest was a breeze...
Just one more reminder that this game heavily favors spellcasters over mundane characters (magical items being the substitute for casting spells).
24:54 - If the target of soul trap can't be dropped below 1hp when no soul gem is available... does it mean you can make an invulnerability spell by casting it on yourself with long duration, and making sure you carry no soul gems?
So I tested this out for a moment and, much to my surprise, this is one aspect of the spell making mechanic which is actually done correctly and without a means to glitch it out: If you select a spell effect which can ONLY be cast on the caster or ONLY be cast on a target, ALL spell effects which are the opposite DISAPPEAR from the spell effect list! Since Soul Trap is a target-only effect it negates the setting to cast it on the caster and also causes caster-only effects like Create Item to disappear from the effect list! That said, if you were to hack Soul Trap into a caster-effect spell... I think the most likely result would be crashing the game. :P
@@Pixelmusement Oh damn, didn't expect a reply to a 3 years old video at all, let alone so soon :D Thank you!
It's interesting to have some insight into how the game works and what kind of "cheat" preventions were considered, despite many other aspects of the game being wonky at best.
Great video, by the way. Someone I know has linked it to me, and it was an instant sub, followed by binge watching about 10 of your other videos. Stellar work.
Now, test everything again... but in daggerfall unity
Now that Daggerfall Unity is a thing, I think there needs to be more content like this out there. Maybe i'll have to take up that task eventually, though with spell effects there can be a lot of flux, considering that it's still not "officially" fully feature complete.
VENGEANCE!
In Daggerfall you lose reputation with guilds?
Imagine you become the Archmage in Skyrim, and the you f off to some other adventure. A courier delivers a letter to you: "Dear Archmage, please come back to the college! There's a lot of paperwork for you to do! We'll find another Archmage if you keep shirking your duties."
+Maddin1313 Absolutely can happen in Daggerfall. If memory serves, the calculation is +5 rep per quest, 10 rep required per rank to attain, and -1 rep for every in-game month that passes. Suffice to say, when Morrowind axed procedural generation, this mechanic stopped making sense, thus why no later TES games have it. :P
Daggerfall is fascinating. Broken fundamentally (and even more so in its retail release), but fascinating nonetheless. I'm more of a fan of Ultima Underworld but I still have plenty of fun with Daggerfall for different reasons.
Yeah, Ultima Underworld is more like an actual game, Daggerfall is like a toy that vaguely has game-esque things in it.
God damn I love these videos.
Slowfall and Flight... there's nostalgia there. Also actually I don't recall always seeing the candle in front of you with the light spell, I think that might depend on what you set it to (either caster or Area at Range).
One oddity I recall.... if you're falling, but then you cast flight/levitation, you'll take damage as if you just hit the ground, so you have to be sure to slowfall before casting levitation.
+Jispy Moe Dantes If you set light as a non-caster spell you can cause the light effect to be applied to an enemy, however, this does absolutely nothing. And yes, I'm aware of the levitation oddity and I think that might've been intentional in order to give slowfall a purpose, otherwise yeah, you'd never need more than levitate. :P
I actually could think of a reason to want slowfall even if levitate didn't have that issue--in case you wanted to just stay even with the ground (so that, for example, you don't go void rangering unintentionally).
But putting it that way makes me wonder if the *void* was intentional ;)
+Jispy Moe Dantes Reminder that you have no air control while Slowfall is in effect. If you walk off of a ledge you just go soaring with a slight downward trajectory and the rest of your momentum intact, as demonstrated when I walked off the roof, ended up surrounded by a 6-inch-high fence that was solid, and had to CLIMB OVER IT because jumping was still disabled. You're way more likely to void out because of Slowfall than Levitate. :P
Oh, right, I forgot about that. Altho once you're on the ground that wouldn't be a problem. I think I used to always just give slowfall the slowest duration. Then again as a kid I used to also always use editing software to make my character all-powerful.
BTW did you ever read about that glitch, that for some reason affects only one town.... I forget how it works but its like if you go into an inn or something there and then save and reload, all the drawers and such will be filled with Daedric equipment.
I wonder how these tests would work in Daggerfall Unity.
For non-spellcasters, if possible, join the School of Julianos temple. The create magic item service is VERY useful and can turn even a weaker character into a dungeon exterminator (and also give you a fairly good chance to beat that pesky Main Quest).
thanks for the video
This was a fun experiment! Makes me want to try this sort of investigative approach to some of my old favourites. And I know everyone seems to like Daggerfall more, but Arena is totally better. :D
+Ben Chandler It made sense to do it with Daggerfall given how poorly documented a lot of the spell effects were, and given how buggy the game is. It might not be as interesting a process with games where the spells are properly documented and tested, though might still be interesting if the effects of the spells in a game are known, but NOT the magnitudes of those effects! (Gotta get that DPS to MP ratio balanced!)
@@Pixelmusement I think in particular games it might be fun to showcase some of the weirder exploits/tricks that particular spells can have. I know there's some wacky ones in Baldur's Gate, or particular spells which are especially over/underpowered.
i thought chameleon was invisibility when not moving
I always beat down the imps at the start hand to hand. Its useful for a few other enemies, I beat a gargoyle hand to hand before
I'm assuming you have heard of the daggerfall restoration project Daggerfall Unity (www.dfworkshop.net/), where they fully recreated from scratch the effects system. You may expect most of the actual spell bugs described here fixed, though damage fatigure is as useless as always.
Also, I am not sure about vanilla, but if you fortify your attribute past 100 it will still display 100 on the HUD, but actually raises the stat further when the stat is used for effects and such. This is best seen with fortify speed (which in this game also boosts attack speed, not only run/walk) spells, which allow you attack MUCH faster than at 100 speed.
+Sir Light Yup. Haven't really had the time to check it out though and probably won't without making it part of an ADG Mod video sometime next year or something. :P
@@Pixelmusement Yes, was just going to suggest making a mod video, as this one essentially erases all of the frustrations of daggerfall, while mostly retaining authentic experience. Glad to hear you are planning on making a review; hopefully the mod will be out of alpha by that time.
UA-cam's drunk again and failed to let me know this video happened. For shame. Daggerfall's awesome, and since Daggerfall Unity's vanilla complete now, there's not been a better time to talk about it.
+Torcularis Yeah... the view count on this video is surprisingly low. Not sure what's going on... :(
That was an insightful video.
Looks like you didn't find the Unofficial Elder Scrolls Pages. Google for "uesp Daggerfall:Magic and Spells" to get to it. They have info on all spell effects. There is also Jormungandr83's FAQ with the info.
Regarding Jump: Jump at twice natural capacity[this spell is broken in v213 but is fixed by a third-party patch]
+Joe Cool I checked UESP. They have info on the SPELLS, not the individual effects. They list only the descriptive data for the effects instead of what they're actually doing. And yeah, that FAQ entry is wrong because I'm not running with third party patches. :|
Thanks for trying them all out. I never really used Jump because I didn't find it that useful. That's probably why it's wrong in the wiki: no one tried it since...
Heh, last time I played thisg ame, I leveled-up to max rank in 5 guilds. It's not as hard as people think it is.
(Note: If I were a spellcaster, I might have even gone for 6 guilds, the sixth one being the Mages Guild :P )
I remember the bug where they only made the stat upgrade buttons invisible. So you could simply raise your stats to max by clicking on the invisible buttons. The game was incredibly bad. It was hyped to high heaven and the bugs were let slide. Took years to reevaluate the game as the crap it was. Which is a pity because the systems were great. I loved the spell maker.
I'd make a joke about Todd Howard here but I'm pretty sure he wasn't a lead on Daggerfall...
scrubs never learn magic in dark souls, thanful for video.
Lock has a duration..