I ran into Adrian at a Qdoba last weekend. He is such a nice person, very approachable and willing to answer my question. He may not remember me but I’m sure he remembers my hand. Nice to meet you sir. Keep up the great content.
I love how you use parts from a non-working item to fix another broken item. That's the second R of Reduce, Reuse, Recycle. LOVE IT. I do find it weird how the 0 in the Numpad is different than the 0 in the number row.
@@sanityormadness It's still consider reusing as it is being used as it was originally designed and intended and not being changed for another application. Recycling is breaking down something to be used as something different.
A few months ago I heard it rephrased as being FIVE Rs, including (iirc) Refuse (as in bring a cloth bag so that you can refuse a plastic bag) and Repair. This case is doing a Repair with Reused parts. Definitely Repair is as important as the three Rs that everyone knows.
@@8bitwiz_ excellent point! Kinda reminds me of how the "5 stages" of grief is now actually 8 (IIRC) stages, and the literature now discusses more about how people often feel more than one "stage" at once so it's not meant to imply some linear journey.
I did this last year with a TRS=80 Model 1 that had 4 dead keys. Was naysayed by the internets that the Alps were essentially unfixable, but I tried anyway by buying some a set of 5 Mac switches. After swapping out the stems (which were the same shape but different lengths than the mac). Finally after washing and 303ing all the keycaps, followed spraying QD electronic cleaner into the rest of the keys, everything works and looks great now :)
A pro tip for if you have a non working switch but everything looks ok: You can fix them with NO spare parts at all. Take the spring plate "fork" and bend it out toward the center "nub" until it's about in line with it. It will fix these switches 100% every time and is reliable. Did my Apple ][ + 4 years ago like this and all still work to this day. Obviously all Adrians switches were complete goners, but in case all your parts look good, this always works. If it doesnt, take it apart again and bend it a little more out. Of course it goes without saying clean the contacts while apart.
Thanks for all the great videos! Love both your channels! I like thin guitar picks for opening switches like that. You can get them in different thicknesses and they are good for prying things open when they are plastic and you want to make it less likely to break or scratch them. Like a spudger tool but you can get a whole bunch of guitar picks in many different stiffness so you have a variety for any situation.
Well that was educational! First off, seeing that the stems are different lengths, since the main problem I see with those keyboards is stems breaking off of keys in the corner, where they can get bumped more. But I will admit to having a moment of temptation after seeing the other set of PCB holes, that if they fit Cherry switches which fit the same key caps, of just replacing them all with modern switches. And instead of the x-acto blade, I'd try an iSesamo as a thin and strong but not razor-sharp piece of metal.
I wouldn't be surprised if other commenters have said this already, but it would be nice if there could be a 3D model made of these. They're pretty fine parts so you'd probably need a resin printer but, small resin printers are super cheap and these are pretty small parts. Then you could transplant a working click leaf into a new housing for times where the switch casing is damaged. Plus replace broken stems, or source stems of different lengths if you have no donor boards. I do love me an ALPS switch. I lowkey wish they'd won the defacto-standardisation/supremacy war against Cherry. It's so interesting because they were basically the default switch provider for so many Asian boards, just as Cherry were for German/European boards. Then they just... faded away....
The non-broken lower bases with glued-in switches can be salvaged, with a bit more work, maybe not worth it. I've even saved ones with broken off pins (non-corroded) by soldering wires to the stubs, but that works best if used to build a scrappy keyboard, without a full PCB, like I did to replicate a Commodore-matrix style keyboard from junk parts.
To me, "Restoration" is bringing something back to working status, sure it could look like it was dragged off the Titanic, but if it worked perfectly fine, then that's what I want, function over form, it's ony after that I may clean things up and make them look nice again, but, I'm not that bothered about everything looking like factory-fresh when I actually want to use it and thus make it look used again... :)
I'm not sure it was a good idea to spread this Apple ][ clone series over two channels, but I'm even more critical of the way this video was basically taken out of the middle of episode 3. Not to have a go at you, but I just had to say that.
I wonder if you can 3d print new stems and the base case? Nice repair video! Was very glad to see you get rid of the Exacto knife for opening those switches... safety cringe from me.
Yeah, you can technically print the stems with an FDM printer, but unless your fdm printer can do really fine printing (or you sand down a bit), the keys are a bit rougher than the real stems and you can notice the difference when typing. I did it once a long time ago and wasn't happy with the result. That said, I have a better 3d FDM 3d printer now and printed a new stem for my trs-80 model 4 that broke so i'm going to give it a shot as well to see how it feels. I do have an SLA printer but, yeah, anyone who has a resin printer knows what a pain it is to clean up after so you kinda want to batch all your print jobs together so you can have more efficient cleaning time.. haha. But yeah, as @Mueller3D said, that would really be the way to go.
just bought an Apple ][+...my first retro computer....i totally blame Adrian....TOTALLY... now i have 25 hours of videos to rewatch before i try booting it
Hello! I'm repairing and old Apple IIe keyboard with long stem ALPS switches. Following your instructions I was able to repair and disassemble every switch with 100% success. I was pretty confident in the task until I met my match the Caps Lock Switch. One I opened it it was completely different and now... I can´t assemble it back on!! I've been trying different ways but there are some pieces (a little copper wire) that got me totally confused. Any idea of where can I find an image or video on how to assemble THAT specific key? Thanks a million in advance for your time and patience. Greetings, from Argentina!
Back in 80s I was given an Apple ][ system (computer, monitor, drives & printer) that had been stolen & dumped in a river for several weeks, it was full of tiny river snails I remember. I got everything working again but it was NEVER reliable, just had problem after problem with it …….
Tip. Low melt solder can make part removal much easier. Here's a good demonstration on an Atari 800XL ua-cam.com/video/A24YSrwpFvU/v-deo.html Go to 12:10 for the part I'm tallking about however the whole video is real interesting. This is NorthridgeFix channel. He's real good for teaching electronics repair.
Honestly, I would have desolderer everything, and properly treat the metal shield. And Rust is cancer, it will still continue even if its out of a damp environment you literally need to sand that to bare metal.... then use a rust inhibitor and repaint, just putting a rust inhibitor on existing rust is only a temporary solution.
@@adriansdigitalbasement2 Ahh. See, I hadn't watched the video quite yet, and you probably mentioned that in the vid. The age-old mistake of commenting too early. lol
Time constraint could never be a reason to do a proper restoration. Doing this fix could be resulting failures in the future. So better to it right and remove all keys repair the traces properly, repair the rust properly and rebuilt the keyboard again. That way you are sure it will last anothe generation
![Adrian's Digital Basement ][](http://yt3.ggpht.com/ytc/AIdro_k7CrQRe71qN6c0Ua7A1P_I8KkxjqLa70u0zYeCvdvnKw=s48-c-k-c0x00ffffff-no-rj)
I ran into Adrian at a Qdoba last weekend. He is such a nice person, very approachable and willing to answer my question. He may not remember me but I’m sure he remembers my hand. Nice to meet you sir. Keep up the great content.
Do we even want to know why he remembers your hand? 😄
@@nickwallette6201 burned it at work night before
I love how you use parts from a non-working item to fix another broken item. That's the second R of Reduce, Reuse, Recycle. LOVE IT.
I do find it weird how the 0 in the Numpad is different than the 0 in the number row.
Eh, I think it's more the third R. "Reuse" is more about reusing stuff wholesale. Parts salvaging is a form of recycling.
@@sanityormadness It's still consider reusing as it is being used as it was originally designed and intended and not being changed for another application. Recycling is breaking down something to be used as something different.
A few months ago I heard it rephrased as being FIVE Rs, including (iirc) Refuse (as in bring a cloth bag so that you can refuse a plastic bag) and Repair. This case is doing a Repair with Reused parts. Definitely Repair is as important as the three Rs that everyone knows.
@@8bitwiz_ excellent point! Kinda reminds me of how the "5 stages" of grief is now actually 8 (IIRC) stages, and the literature now discusses more about how people often feel more than one "stage" at once so it's not meant to imply some linear journey.
I cringed when you slipped with that X-Acto knife. Nice to see how these come apart - good info!
I had my other hand below the trajectory of the knife luckily -- was hard to tell in the video :-)
I did this last year with a TRS=80 Model 1 that had 4 dead keys. Was naysayed by the internets that the Alps were essentially unfixable, but I tried anyway by buying some a set of 5 Mac switches. After swapping out the stems (which were the same shape but different lengths than the mac). Finally after washing and 303ing all the keycaps, followed spraying QD electronic cleaner into the rest of the keys, everything works and looks great now :)
Definately not unfixable, and many times with no parts at all! See my comment above - take it apart and just bend the "fork" out on the switch plate.
"The keyboard experts". I feel called out
17:21 the "S" key cap is upside down.
That power LED is a really good boy. A happy happy boy.
Yes very happy to be getting some attention finally!!
A pro tip for if you have a non working switch but everything looks ok: You can fix them with NO spare parts at all. Take the spring plate "fork" and bend it out toward the center "nub" until it's about in line with it. It will fix these switches 100% every time and is reliable. Did my Apple ][ + 4 years ago like this and all still work to this day.
Obviously all Adrians switches were complete goners, but in case all your parts look good, this always works. If it doesnt, take it apart again and bend it a little more out. Of course it goes without saying clean the contacts while apart.
UGH! The "S" key is upside down.
Haha
He should keep it like that 😂
@@volvo09No he shouldn't.
I'm like "people were all screaming at the computer 'the S is upside down!'"
Well I want him to put them All in upside down. For the heck of it.
🤣
Thanks for all the great videos! Love both your channels! I like thin guitar picks for opening switches like that. You can get them in different thicknesses and they are good for prying things open when they are plastic and you want to make it less likely to break or scratch them. Like a spudger tool but you can get a whole bunch of guitar picks in many different stiffness so you have a variety for any situation.
Well that was educational! First off, seeing that the stems are different lengths, since the main problem I see with those keyboards is stems breaking off of keys in the corner, where they can get bumped more. But I will admit to having a moment of temptation after seeing the other set of PCB holes, that if they fit Cherry switches which fit the same key caps, of just replacing them all with modern switches.
And instead of the x-acto blade, I'd try an iSesamo as a thin and strong but not razor-sharp piece of metal.
Spudgers are my go to tools for disassembling Alps switches
I wouldn't be surprised if other commenters have said this already, but it would be nice if there could be a 3D model made of these. They're pretty fine parts so you'd probably need a resin printer but, small resin printers are super cheap and these are pretty small parts.
Then you could transplant a working click leaf into a new housing for times where the switch casing is damaged. Plus replace broken stems, or source stems of different lengths if you have no donor boards.
I do love me an ALPS switch.
I lowkey wish they'd won the defacto-standardisation/supremacy war against Cherry. It's so interesting because they were basically the default switch provider for so many Asian boards, just as Cherry were for German/European boards. Then they just... faded away....
Such a tease not showing the testing of the keyboard at the end!!! LOL. Looking forward to you trying out a Coleco Adam keyboard some day!
keyboard person here, that looks like a happy board!
yup, my trs 80 model 3 and TI99/4a have the alps and my apple IIE enhanced has Mitsumi, they all feel nice.
Great content, thankx for sharing with us. Greetings from Steven from the Netherlands
Brilliant job, Adrian.
you have the S on upside down ,adrian,nice repair enjoyed the video
The non-broken lower bases with glued-in switches can be salvaged, with a bit more work, maybe not worth it.
I've even saved ones with broken off pins (non-corroded) by soldering wires to the stubs, but that works best if used to build a scrappy keyboard, without a full PCB, like I did to replicate a Commodore-matrix style keyboard from junk parts.
Actually the red material around the two pins of the switch body chips out easily and the switch plate pulls right out of the lower body.
To me, "Restoration" is bringing something back to working status, sure it could look like it was dragged off the Titanic, but if it worked perfectly fine, then that's what I want, function over form, it's ony after that I may clean things up and make them look nice again, but, I'm not that bothered about everything looking like factory-fresh when I actually want to use it and thus make it look used again... :)
I'm not sure it was a good idea to spread this Apple ][ clone series over two channels, but I'm even more critical of the way this video was basically taken out of the middle of episode 3. Not to have a go at you, but I just had to say that.
I wonder if you can 3d print new stems and the base case? Nice repair video! Was very glad to see you get rid of the Exacto knife for opening those switches... safety cringe from me.
Probably would work okay with a resin printer. A filament printer would likely require a fine nozzle and a lot of tuning and post-processing.
Yeah, you can technically print the stems with an FDM printer, but unless your fdm printer can do really fine printing (or you sand down a bit), the keys are a bit rougher than the real stems and you can notice the difference when typing. I did it once a long time ago and wasn't happy with the result. That said, I have a better 3d FDM 3d printer now and printed a new stem for my trs-80 model 4 that broke so i'm going to give it a shot as well to see how it feels. I do have an SLA printer but, yeah, anyone who has a resin printer knows what a pain it is to clean up after so you kinda want to batch all your print jobs together so you can have more efficient cleaning time.. haha. But yeah, as @Mueller3D said, that would really be the way to go.
17:08: The S key is upside down. Whoopsie.
just bought an Apple ][+...my first retro computer....i totally blame Adrian....TOTALLY...
now i have 25 hours of videos to rewatch before i try booting it
Genius as usual!
As you are working on an unique keyboard control logic. Please show us how it works. Thank you.
You Teaser! - LOL 😆 Looking forward towards the rusty keyboard working like new.
Man that wiggly LED was distracting.
Pretty sure ive seen kids wearing things like that at parties lol
Add to your miscellaneous tools
a metal thimble to avoid stabbing your fingertips while taking the switches apart works wonders on saving on bandaids
Like Dave Jones said: Good enough for Australia (US)! Really no point to do a full restore, takes much more time and effort.
Hello! I'm repairing and old Apple IIe keyboard with long stem ALPS switches. Following your instructions I was able to repair and disassemble every switch with 100% success. I was pretty confident in the task until I met my match the Caps Lock Switch. One I opened it it was completely different and now... I can´t assemble it back on!! I've been trying different ways but there are some pieces (a little copper wire) that got me totally confused. Any idea of where can I find an image or video on how to assemble THAT specific key? Thanks a million in advance for your time and patience. Greetings, from Argentina!
Those are the same key caps used in the NABU keyboard.
Notification Squad! :D
Black switchplates of Alps SKCC is same as long black/gray/white switchplates of first generation Alps SKCM/SKCL switches
Did you insulate those bodge wires (or are they enamel coated?) One or two were very close to contacting soldered parts.
Back in 80s I was given an Apple ][ system (computer, monitor, drives & printer) that had been stolen & dumped in a river for several weeks, it was full of tiny river snails I remember. I got everything working again but it was NEVER reliable, just had problem after problem with it …….
The key stems look like a perfect application for 3d printing….
What a downer that he didn't show if it worked or not. Like a movie with a bad ending.
It's called a "cliffhanger". Tune in Saturday for the thrilling conclusion!
do you soak that in deoxit or wd40? ohh nevermind, you just mentioned rust converter...
Tip. Low melt solder can make part removal much easier. Here's a good demonstration on an Atari 800XL ua-cam.com/video/A24YSrwpFvU/v-deo.html Go to 12:10 for the part I'm tallking about however the whole video is real interesting. This is NorthridgeFix channel. He's real good for teaching electronics repair.
Honestly, I would have desolderer everything, and properly treat the metal shield. And Rust is cancer, it will still continue even if its out of a damp environment you literally need to sand that to bare metal.... then use a rust inhibitor and repaint, just putting a rust inhibitor on existing rust is only a temporary solution.
Making a application specific blade is trivial, dull and blunt the edges with sand paper, concrete or even a bowling trophy.
Suspiciously specific…
The rust needs sanding, cleaning, prime, and paint.
what did adrian say when a component lost connection? that a lot oh-my.
Hi Adrian!
I will second that ... whooooooooooooah.
Rust never sleeps 😝
I think if I was you, I'd remove ALL the switches, then remove the plate, clean and repair, then reassemble.
Mmhmmm!!! :-)
I think you'd like to have the time to do that …
APL_L_E ][? What kind of newfangled computer is that? 🤭
Hahaha -- gotta avoid copyright! ;-)
You put the S in backwards !
Hi Adrian
Oh my god bro this is driving my ocd nuts.... ship the keyboard to me, i'll desolder all of the switches and remove the metal plate, lol
I can't be the only one noticing the upside down "S" key...
Wash your hands Adrian! :)
Not a huge deal, but your thumbnail says "APLLE".
Heh yeah I know, it was supposed to be a bit of a joke with the illegal nature of the clone :-)
@@adriansdigitalbasement2 Ahh.
See, I hadn't watched the video quite yet, and you probably mentioned that in the vid.
The age-old mistake of commenting too early. lol
APLLE 😋
Gotta avoid any copyright issues! LOL!!
Solder sucker go brrr...
Time constraint could never be a reason to do a proper restoration. Doing this fix could be resulting failures in the future. So better to it right and remove all keys repair the traces properly, repair the rust properly and rebuilt the keyboard again. That way you are sure it will last anothe generation
WHY! You already did the the work and removed a 4th of the switches. Just do the extra work and pull the whole frame and restore it.
Adrian I volunteer to intern for you and desolder those keys...o wait i live 1800 miles away😦 73
well.....there is United Parcel Smashers
🤪
This video is so frustrating to watch.