Most people think the physical copy (mushaf) is what is uncreated when we say the Quran is uncreated, even though that is not the point we are making, the words that are on it (NOT THE INK OR THE PHYSICAL TEXT) are eternal because those words come straight from an eternal being. That said, we do not mean that the Quran cannot be ripped to pieces or it is God on its own like the christians claim that the word of God is a person on its own with its own consciousness.
This is a matter which caused great fitnah during the time of Imam Ahmad رحمه الله and was introduced by the people of philosophy and intellect over text, and the current Ash'ariyyah have taken their position of bâtil cocnerning this. The people in this panel are Da'ees and are not qualified to answer this question, based on what they have said and their da'wah channel They should bring what the scholars have said concerning this. The Qur'ân, is the Speech of Allâh, uncreated, and revealed to Muhammad ﷺ as a reminder and guidance for all of humanity. It was then memorized and then written down and then collected into a single volume musHaf. The musHaf is the created thing. As it concerns tawheed, the Speech of Allâh is an Attribute of Allâh ﷻ and all Attributes of Allâh ﷻ are uncreated and are possessed by Allah, and are not separate from Him. For example, Allâhs sight and hearing are uncreated and are not separate from Him.
Quran as an attribute of Allah has always existed but God chose and willed to reveal it at a certain point in time..... Couldn't we say the same thing about every single created item because God has always had the knowledge of it،and there was no point in time that God did not know of the existence of that given item .so everything could be in a sense eternal and uncreated but manifested at certain point of time
The Qur'ân, that which was revealed to the prophet Muhammad ﷺ , is the Speech of Allâh and uncreated. He memorized it, and so did his companions رضي الله عنهم, then it was written down. That which was written down and collected into a single volume musHaf, and continues to be mass printed is created.
@@Ha-Elyon If you are looking to use the hadith narrated by Â'isha رضي الله عنها, then I must inform you that you are sadly mistaking or have been misled...the flaw in that argument is, a)you can't "forget" what you haven't "memorized", b) He did remember according to the hadith, c) he reviewed the entire Quran with Jibreel عليه السلام on a yearly basis and more frequently closer to his death d) the nature of the "forgetfulness" seeing as he was able to recognize what had been revealed. And the scholars have said the following with regard to the report narrated by al-Bukhaari (5038) and Muslim (788) from ‘Aa’ishah, who said: The Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) heard a man reciting at night and he said: “May Allah have mercy on him, for he has reminded me of such and such, a verse that I had been caused to forget in soorah such and such”, This refers to the normal, natural kind of forgetting with which Adam (peace be upon him) and his offspring were created. That happened to the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) sometimes, and it is not what is referred to in the verse (interpretation of the meaning): “We shall make you to recite (the Qur’an), so you (O Muhammad (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him)) shall not forget (it)” [al-A‘la 87:6]. An-Nawawi (may Allah have mercy on him) said: This indicates that it was possible for the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) to forget some of that which he had already conveyed to the ummah. End quote. Al-Haafiz Ibn Hajar (may Allah have mercy on him) said: Al-Ismaa‘eeli said: With regard to the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) forgetting some part of the Qur’an, that is of two types: The first is what he might forget and then quickly remember. This is part of human nature, and is referred to in the words of the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) in the hadith of Ibn Mas‘ood about forgetting: “I am only human like you; I forget as you forget.” The second type is when Allah removed from his heart that which He wanted to abrogate from the Qur’an. This is referred to as the exception in the verse in which Allah, may He be exalted, says (interpretation of the meaning): “We shall make you to recite (the Qur’an), so you (O Muhammad (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him)) shall not forget (it), Except what Allah may will” [al-A‘la 87:6-7].
Most people think the physical copy (mushaf) is what is uncreated when we say the Quran is uncreated, even though that is not the point we are making, the words that are on it (NOT THE INK OR THE PHYSICAL TEXT) are eternal because those words come straight from an eternal being. That said, we do not mean that the Quran cannot be ripped to pieces or it is God on its own like the christians claim that the word of God is a person on its own with its own consciousness.
Seems like a nice guy. May Allah guide him.
This is a matter which caused great fitnah during the time of Imam Ahmad رحمه الله and was introduced by the people of philosophy and intellect over text, and the current Ash'ariyyah have taken their position of bâtil cocnerning this. The people in this panel are Da'ees and are not qualified to answer this question, based on what they have said and their da'wah channel They should bring what the scholars have said concerning this.
The Qur'ân, is the Speech of Allâh, uncreated, and revealed to Muhammad ﷺ as a reminder and guidance for all of humanity. It was then memorized and then written down and then collected into a single volume musHaf. The musHaf is the created thing.
As it concerns tawheed, the Speech of Allâh is an Attribute of Allâh ﷻ and all Attributes of Allâh ﷻ are uncreated and are possessed by Allah, and are not separate from Him. For example, Allâhs sight and hearing are uncreated and are not separate from Him.
The speech can continue live on seperate from the speaker if it recorded
Quran as an attribute of Allah has always existed but God chose and willed to reveal it at a certain point in time..... Couldn't we say the same thing about every single created item because God has always had the knowledge of it،and there was no point in time that God did not know of the existence of that given item .so everything could be in a sense eternal and uncreated but manifested at certain point of time
سبحان الله ❤️
Nice discussion
So he asked about the quran and they instantly turn the tables and press Josh on Torah
Joshs initial answer was thr quran is an attribute and the muhameden said its not
The Qur'ân, that which was revealed to the prophet Muhammad ﷺ , is the Speech of Allâh and uncreated. He memorized it, and so did his companions رضي الله عنهم, then it was written down. That which was written down and collected into a single volume musHaf, and continues to be mass printed is created.
@@mutaabi-as-salaf
Muhamed did not memorize the quran
@@Ha-Elyon If you are looking to use the hadith narrated by Â'isha رضي الله عنها, then I must inform you that you are sadly mistaking or have been misled...the flaw in that argument is, a)you can't "forget" what you haven't "memorized", b) He did remember according to the hadith, c) he reviewed the entire Quran with Jibreel عليه السلام on a yearly basis and more frequently closer to his death d) the nature of the "forgetfulness" seeing as he was able to recognize what had been revealed.
And the scholars have said the following with regard to the report narrated by al-Bukhaari (5038) and Muslim (788) from ‘Aa’ishah, who said: The Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) heard a man reciting at night and he said: “May Allah have mercy on him, for he has reminded me of such and such, a verse that I had been caused to forget in soorah such and such”,
This refers to the normal, natural kind of forgetting with which Adam (peace be upon him) and his offspring were created. That happened to the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) sometimes, and it is not what is referred to in the verse (interpretation of the meaning): “We shall make you to recite (the Qur’an), so you (O Muhammad (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him)) shall not forget (it)” [al-A‘la 87:6].
An-Nawawi (may Allah have mercy on him) said: This indicates that it was possible for the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) to forget some of that which he had already conveyed to the ummah. End quote.
Al-Haafiz Ibn Hajar (may Allah have mercy on him) said:
Al-Ismaa‘eeli said: With regard to the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) forgetting some part of the Qur’an, that is of two types:
The first is what he might forget and then quickly remember. This is part of human nature, and is referred to in the words of the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) in the hadith of Ibn Mas‘ood about forgetting: “I am only human like you; I forget as you forget.”
The second type is when Allah removed from his heart that which He wanted to abrogate from the Qur’an. This is referred to as the exception in the verse in which Allah, may He be exalted, says (interpretation of the meaning):
“We shall make you to recite (the Qur’an), so you (O Muhammad (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him)) shall not forget (it),
Except what Allah may will”
[al-A‘la 87:6-7].
@@Ha-Elyon yes he did