In relation to the Sonic Heroes section, one game that was a surprising hit when I visited a friend of mine this summer was Balan Wonderworld in co-op. Balan Wonderworld's co-op allows your two player characters to stick together by touching each other. When magnetised together both players are able to control your two characters as one unit, only breaking apart when both players move away from each other. But most importantly - by sticking to each other, your individual powerups can be used together. Suddenly, the game is no longer a one button game. Want a weapon and a jump ability at the same time? Together you can do that. Want the speed-up 50% of the time power-up 100% of the time? Time your activation with your partner and you're going fast forever. Want a speed-up and a glide at the same time? Sure, go wild! You can end up with some silly combos that can launch you across the levels and explore in ways the game was clearly never designed for - but it was compelling to experiment with mixing and matching the tools and seeing what we could come up with. When we looked up discussions of the game afterwards we were surprised to see just how little attention there was for this mode. I thought even despite the game's dire reputation that at least someone would have seen the potential in it like we did. Instead we've just been annoying all our other friends by becoming irritating evangelists for it ever since. And I guess that's now spread here too, so, uh, sorry about that. Don't get me wrong, it didn't save Balan or anything, it's still a very flawed game - but I think in the right hands this co-op style could be turned into something special - and seeing Heroes played with three people is only re-affirming that to me. Maybe one day...
@@asbyeternal291 I dont think thats a value of balan tho, i think its that everything is more fun with friends. I didnt enjoy my time with life is strange, but it sure was fun to torture my sister with it
@@goldengolem4670 thing is, this demonstrates that playing balan in co-op _directly improves the play experience._ it's something very distinct from horsing around with friends via the excuse of a crummy game or show or whatever, because in that the friction with the media is maintained because that's the _point,_ you're having a laugh as your friends and family suffer through this shared experience. but in this case, one of balan's major flaws is how the absurd degree of simplification just makes the game slow and limited at the best of times and tedious at its worst. by letting a second player effectively become a second button in a one-button game, you introduce an _absurd_ degree of depth and experimentation and general nonsense that was lost by shedding a player down to basic locomotion and a single verb, and the fact that it's done through a second player also adds all the elements of coordination, communication, and mischief that cooperative experiences are so good at manifesting it sounds more comparable to those games that are _designed_ to be multiplayer first and foremost, but let you play solo with ai teammates without actually letting you engage with the main co-op mechanics so you just end up with a drab, by-the-numbers experience with some npcs that sometimes do something useful. and it makes me wonder - are there two kids that are nominally both part of the story because, at some point in development, co-op was _supposed_ to be the primary mode? because not only does it apparently _vastly_ improve the gameplay, but also the idea of two friends pairing their hyperspecific talents to cover the other's weaknesses and conquer otherwise intimidating obstacles with ease is an absolutely _perfect_ fit for the type of story it is
@@goldengolem4670 It absolutely is a value of Balan. A simple exercise - what would be more fun, contriving ways to play the singleplayer mode of Balan Wonderland with your mate like sharing the controller, or playing the dedicated coop mode?
As someone who has seen others dismiss the idea that stories that play with ludicrous concepts can also tackle deeper themes or ideas… Thank you. It’s something that bothers me when people don’t try to engage a story on its terms because “Oh this boss attacks with bees” or the like. (A specific example I know. Yes the Game in question is Metal Gear Solid 3. No I do not think the person has good taste.) To see someone willingly to engage with earnest stories with earnestness… means a lot to me. Sonic holds a dear place in my childhood, even if I can’t claim to have played most of the Franchise. Or even be good at the ones I have played. But the character of free spirited blue speedster has kept me interested in this series despite it all.
A game i recently played Lies of P resulted in me feeling really disappointed at how public domain stuff has been handled as mainly jokes, while lies of p plays it genuine as a base for their setting.
That bit about being unable to find any evidence that people "turned" on SA2's story plays well with the theory I've had for ages now: the Sonic fanbase exists as an anti-echo chamber, where everyone is trapped in an endless cycle of gaslighting themselves that the latest hot take is actually popular concensus.
To be clear, I couldn't find no evidence. Just so little that it feels incredibly overblown when compared to the tidal wave it is made out as. You got a couple vids, scattered forum threads and articles, and most of the blowback even then is gameplay focused. Not saying it totally didn't happen. But people who like SA2 overplay it for a talking point
Good lord you're exactly right. I can't believe someone finally put it into words lol My hunch is the years of mockery have made the fanbase so hyper-sensitive to criticism that now the critics are actually over-represented in discourse by sheer word of mouth, if that makes sense.
@@QuintessentialWalrus Its a bit more split than that but you are correct. On the one hand you have the hyper defensive types and on the other side you have the ones who are trying SO hard to prove they aren't that they'll bat for really stupid takes like the ones that typically come from games journalists or AVGN clones. While Sonic fans are the only people who still get offended over Arin Hanson, Sonic fans are also the only ones who actually defend Arin Hanson.
Sonic is more hood than people give him credit for. You'd be surprised how many big rappers cite Sonic as their inspiration for getting into the genre.
For the longest time, Pokecapn's LP of '06 was an absolute favorite of mine. A real casual "we're just kinda wingin' it" vibe about it. In recent years, MattMcmuscles' LP ended up taking the top spot, and I feel it's almost entirely due to Liam being at the controls. Going in completely blind, he brought his usual can-do attitude and gave the game the fairest of chances, while still being critical when necessary (and the rare "okay, this ACTUALLY sucks" moments were worth it). Taking alternate routes in stages (usually to get the Silver Medals), doing side missions I didn't even know existed, feeling that sense of "what could have been" when the game didn't always stick its landings, and genuinely getting excited by parts of the game that were kinda hype, he approached the game in a way I hadn't seen others do and it was such a refreshing change of pace. It's a very fun playthrough for me to revisit.
I attribute a lot of the current success of sonic right now to one crucial thing: Fans of the series that got into the gaming industry - and then got into Sega. I always remember Aaron Webber, who spent years at Sega's social team, being one of the first "funny social media accounts" before the concept got infuriating. I remember the story of how Sonic Mania likely wouldn't have happened if not for his suggestion - and with it, Sega's renaissance might not have happened either. The late 2010s - 2017 in particular, were very formative years for Sega, I feel. Sonic was learning to take itself seriously again, and Yakuza finally got the recognition it always deserved. I can only imagine everyone at Sega feeling this vindication that all their efforts were finally paying off properly - and it likely only happened because a few dedicated folk decided to push towards it, because Sega themselves felt defeated. It took a fan effort to localize yakuza 5, which then made them localize yakuza 0, and it took one dedicated sonic fan to poke at the idea of getting fans to do ports of the classic sonic games, then mania. Knowing that Aaron Webber is now at Sega's planning team makes me confident that they're only improving from here - we've gone past downhill, now it's time for the dizzying heights.
There’s a bizarrely similar story to that with an indie game that recently came out called Arzette: Jewel of Faramore. It’s a giant send up of the CDI Zelda games, but rather than being a parody, it’s a love letter. It’s a genuinely well made game, and it feels like the creators took a look past all the YTPs (of which they made several) and at how the ideas in the games themselves could have worked.
@@nerdyvids1 Yeah that one's pretty cool. In a similar vein (I definitely remember Zelda 2 being the but of several internet diss sessions back in the day) I think the Zelda 2 Remastered guy put out an original IP based on the gameplay of it, but I can't remember what it was called.
Regarding ideas for the boost era, you could try doing it WITHOUT using the boost. Once you take out the defining characteristic of an era, what are you left with? Can a game survive or even thrive if you do without its main component? Can you use what’s left to replace that part? Plus, it’s a good segue into self imposed challenges, and new ways to replay games. Have you seen what people have done to Mario 64 to avoid pressing the A button? How Pokemon completely changes when a nuzlocke player needs to dive deep into Pokemon strategy?
dude i'm not even 10 minutes in and the way you put your love of SA1 into words makes me feel like ive just rediscovered why i love the game so much myself
This vid is a masterpiece, your scripting skills are actually nuts. You can tell this vid was crafted with a lot of love and effort. I too like exploring how people discuss media and culture so all the nitty gritty was right up my alley
The moment you asked for suggestions for the next video i already knew exactly what to suggest. Play through all of unleashed on a completed file so you can replay whatever level, and then play through all the day stages back to back, then all the night stages back to back. I will not say what i think you can gleam and subsequently discuss from this experience bc its funnier that way.
For boost ideas, you could try the Mario 64 mod for Generations. It could potentially open up some discussion of mod scenes in general, the unleashed project for Generations (which could link with a discussion of how a lot of people prefer to ignore that werehog stages exist), the mario 64 PC port and other reverse engineering projects, Sega's laissez faire approach to fangames and mods, or just talking about movement in platformers (Mario 64 is famously designed to "just be fun to move around" but place it in generations levels and you get tedium and jank). I don't really give much of a shit about sonic outside of 2 and generations though so I got no idea for the rest of the boost games. Maybe an F rank only speedrun or something? Could maybe prompt some discussion about scoring systems, like exploring how some shmups become completely different games when you get good at them and are going for high scores instead of just survival or how character action games often rely on you caring about your score/rank in order to get any sort of enjoyment out of them.
Really appreciate the dig at nitpicky youtubers who want to be smart so badly they become immune to subtext or nuance (or fun), especially appreciated coming from a guy who always seems to be having fun even when he's negative and doesn't take himself too seriously (shown- up by shonen, really?)
I remember this Generations mod I played that allowed you to play as Classic Sonic in Modern stages and vice versa, that I had fun with the novelty of it for a few hours. There might be something in there about how the same space can be recontextualized when you swap in a completely different character to move through it.
my suggestion, tho more accurate to say a half baked notion springboarding off rushed games: playing a game akin to someone in quality assurance. - Stopping to jot down notes, trying to make bugs repeatible, etc. Not even for the fallen of a tree low hanging fruit of known bugs, but just as an exercise in how much time ACTUALLY takes to do that kind of work. (reminds me a bit of speedrunners looking for timesaves too.) I feel its underappreciated but wholly nessicary for a game to function.
I always love when people realize that nitpicking a game is a sign that they like the series, IP or game itself. They care enough to notice these things. I love the look on peoples faces when I rip a game apart and then inform them that it was fun. They can't even fathom it. There seems to be this issue where people think that if you like something it's good. You can like bad things. For example crap is bad. It is literal waste and yet there are people that like crap. I'm being literal here but it makes the point well enough. Criticism needs to stop being seen as hate. Alpha Protocol played like absolute crap on console compared to PC but all that did was make me want to get the game on PC. On the flip side the only reason I remember Space Siege is because it's that one Sega game like Dungeon Siege and honestly I can't remember a whole lot from it because nothing stood out. It's hilarious to think back and say I have never recommended Space Siege but I have recommended Alpha Protocol despite Space Siege being a very tight and well put together experience that didn't have the glaring weak points Alpha Protocol has.
I feel like for Generations, playing it with the SM64 decomp Mario mod could be a good vehicle for discussing how we compare Sonic and his legacy to others. There's definitely some other additional layers that could be pulled away and analyzed with it but I can't be nearly as clever as you are with how you create parallels between weird gameplay methods and metacontextual discussion. Seriously, your videos are really good.
I was getting genuinely misty-eyed at the conclusion to The UA-camr Game section where you were talking about honest failures and how fandom opinion is largely a passing thing. I think this might be my favorite video of yours! Your script really captured the wide range of contextual factors that go into creating and releasing something. How people react to that is generally one of my favorite topics. Nice work!
"Condemned to Eternal Darkness that's all Too human to forget ever happened" Brilliant Line. Btw, I've been looking forward to this video for a while and it did not disappoint and I feel it's one of your best videos you've done. Your segments on Sonic Adventure 2 and even the third section of 06, I feel was by far the strongest section and personally was the one I think I identified most, regarding how people can view and critique and inherent positives and negatives. Made for a very strong discussing because Frankly while I'm not a huge fan of the game, I completely agree that SA2 is a good example of that sort of subject. Speaking from someone who is not a sonic but has probably similar passion and attachment for other series(Resident Evil would be mine), I'm kind of jealous how well you've written and articulated things on commenting on these subjects, God Speed Snake.
Definitely making a video about youtube and the internet zeitgeist with sonic b-roll truly achieves doing "talking about playing sonic the wrong way" in a wrong (but interesting) way.
I honestly didn't know what I was going to be getting out of this video when I clicked on it, but I really enjoyed it! I can't really put my thoughts together neatly but this is such an intriguing and lovely video. A lot of what it presented about the way we interact with games is going to be sticking with me for a while
Suggestions for the boost games, only play it on someone else's computer via parsec or steam remote play together. Covid really put into perspective just how much gaming changed in how it is experienced. Even splitscreen or couch co-op games are now available online and that's weird to me as someone who grew up on the n64 and gamecube. Also I think the lag would be terribly inconvenient and would make for at least a challenging experience.
Amazing video as always, props and cheers for making this one have so many topics in one, the way I binged it made it feel like all these parts stood well as their own. And as for suggestions, only things that comes to mind is what if you played a game as if it was trailer editing gig or really maybe broaden the scope and have to force yourself in shoes of community manager trying to pitch the game to wider audience. Would be interesting insight in way how we present games before release or way people may hook others into experiencing it. How we present information from someone who has some gain from it doing well. Although fair if it wouldn't be something you want to dwell into. Other suggestion, is the mention of achievement hunting made me think about these kind of folks who play the game with the guide always open, but in a way to purely do everything 100% in most optimal way, focusing more on the guides than the game they talk about. And I think that would be interesting talk how we format guides, walkthroughs and how people may approach them. How sometimes the guide makers put their flair of personality into writing paragraphs of what to do. From steam guides, to forum posts, to silent 100% completion long format videos.
Been a fan of your channel for a while and I never thought I'd see you make a video on Sonic of all franchises, but after sitting down and watching the whole thing, it was worth the wait and your critique of SA1 especially still resonates with me
I really like your opinion of game discussion as a race. When I think back on the type of content I watch on youtube now its not really reviews of modern releases, but videos talking about old or obscure games long after the fact. In that time, context has been built and made available (usually) and the pool of opinions has grown so diverse that its cozy to hear any take on a game. By the time games reach their sunset of relevance any bandwagoning has subsided and discussion feels much more rational and level-headed. In that way, it makes playing older titles even more engaging as I am able to not just enjoy the work but also enjoy the life that the work has had from its conception to its legacy
This might be pushing it a bit but... for colors or generations, play the DS versions instead. It's one of the like... last real relics of an era of games that had multiple versions for portable consoles, where the version was just a straight up completely different game. You don't really see that much these days. Mobile phone games are typically something completely different with mobile in mind, and the only real portable console is also a home console at the same time.
I didn't expect this video to be such a well-written and introspective writeup on not only the perception of Sonic, but games as a whole and how changing times leads to different opinions and perspectives end up changing depending on the circumstances of a certain era, but it was really fun to see it be presented with a ton of great examples alongside those topics. Plus. the analysis was as great as ever, especially regarding the more broader remarks about this industry and assumptions people can make. Regarding suggestions for the eventual next installment in this series, I guess I'll throw my hat into the ring by suggesting that instead of showcasing the "main" version of the Boost Games (Unleashed on PS3/Xbox, Colors on Wii, Generations on PS3/Xbox/PC, etc), maybe try out the versions of the games that may be considered lesser in the eyes of the general public, like the PS2/Wii version of Unleashed (or the version of the game for Java phones) or the 3DS version of Generations. And as for the topic of discussion that can be derived from those versions, maybe it could be about how back in the day, there was an incentive for companies to make multiple versions of a game (or release a separate version of that game with differing/completely different gameplay) on less powerful hardware. There could also be a focus on whether or not these versions of a specific game even have merit despite being inferior to the version people consider the "main" one, even as they fall into obscurity as the years go by, along with how you don't see many different versions of a game due to the tech basically having caught up/plateaued by our current year.
One thing that Sonic Heroes did, and that I truly miss from the other big 3D sonic games, is making a coherent art style that looks like it would not be out of place in the 2D counterparts, especially the OG games. SA1 and SA2 still had a lot of cartoony elements, but they were going for a more drab, realistic look.
This video actually cements you as my favorite youtuber, as someone whos watched your yakuza 5 video twice lmfao, you just do it in a way no one else does man!
I'm not gonna go too deep on this idea just in a comments section, but I legitimately think Shadow the Hedgehog should've been an immersive sim. Like genuinely think about that for a few minutes. What the game is trying to do as it is. Condense the stage count (there's already a few that are basically just slightly alternate versions of other stages) into a more linear path with occasional branches into two potential stages, and give you a few potential missions per stage and maybe let you do multiple even. Play off the dynamic between GUN, Eggman, Black Doom as different factions, with Shadow in the middle. Give shadow different weapons and abilities based on previous missions, and change up what future missions are available based on them too. Obviously this isn't just that simple, and this would be a whole new game entirely with a ton of additional work. But I think this would've been a great path for the game just looking at what the game was trying to do.
for sonic unleashed, I'd argue the best approach to playing it wrong is with the sonic generations mod that puts in the day and night stages from unleashed, where you play as day time sonic in the night time stages
Loved this one. Worth the wait 100%, I have never seen someone explain my thoughts on sa2 (it’s the coolest shit ever, literally unmatched, shadow is goated, I never, ever want to play it over sa1). Also top of my head, unleashed can’t be modded on a console, and doing the video on a pc port of the daytime segments would feel cheap, so I’d suggest to talk about the incredible boost gameplay for like 4 minutes and then have over an hour of analysis about the werehog gameplay as if it were part of one of your yakuza videos would be goated. The idea of you talking about how something like shield cancelling turned that half of the game into a blast for you is what I’m hoping to see, cause I do think it’s underrated when gone at as an actual game instead of as a chore. I think it could be used to talk about experimentation within a target audience’s range as a result. And if you don’t want to write another yakuza type video I totally get it, but keep in mind by the time you get to editing playing sonic wrong 3 you’ll probably be a while removed from your video about Yakuza 9: Return of Shimano
Your memories of SA2-bashing are so interesting to me. I'm an EXTREMELY fair-weather Sonic fan (the last game I played was Generations, I think?) but I was there for the Dreamcast and at least in my circle of friends, everyone LOVED SA2 and basically thought it was an antidote to what they perceived as the negatives of SA1 - I adored and adore SA1 and remember having to defend it to my friends plenty. Maybe I just missed all the early 2010s UA-camrs, but this video is literally the first time I had heard that SA2 was considered anything less than a triumph.
I wish the internet hadn't ruined Sonic Adventure for me. The fanbase has been so disgustingly elitist and toxic about it that my enjoyment has been destroyed. Sonic just kinda hurts now.
The Section on overly literal critique and people who are supposedly "objectively" analyzing a piece of media ironically understanding less of it than a more casual viewer very much resonated with me There's a certain podcast, which I will not name (because its fans are a bit... weird) that I stopped watching for this very reason. Even when it was PAINFULLY obvious that a point that had been made would be elaborated on, challenged or otherwise expanded upon just a minute later, they would still pause the video and discuss for minutes on end how it made "literally no sense"... only to then be disproven 30 seconds later by the very same video. And this would continue ad nauseum for potentially hours of a full podcast dragging on... and on... and on... and on... And its not like I'd seen these videos ahead of time or anything, it was my first time seeing them too, yet these people couldn't help themselves but take everything at 200% face value, to the point that they missed the bloody forest for the trees. Your comparison of people going through "stages" as they grow up and consume media I think is very succinct, because I believe a lot of people fail to realize that "rational" intelligence is not the only thing necessary to understand and challenge media. Emotional intelligence is of equal or perhaps greater value, but also requires that the person earnestly engage with the piece of media and try their best to be forthcoming and understanding, at least for a time. In other words, it takes maturity to see a story for its face value, its deeper value and the things hidden between the lines But hey, its much easier to just be snarky and impatient, then actually properly engage with something, right? Anyway, weird rant over, thank you Snake for making me think and putting into words what often miffs me with certain "critics" out there
I'm glad you set the stage for xenus discussion. Same for Die Hard Vendetta. Out of curiosity, you've mentioned Dead Rising 1 being one of your favorites a few times, though you've never gone for 100%. As someone who's just suffered through the 7 days in endless achievement, might be a great idea for a video.
Currently in Sonic Adventure chapter 2, you literally made the same points i made with my SADX video, about preservation of the original, how DX is the worst yet widely available version and how if MGS was replaced by the remake. Even after that, i'm still getting flack for my ad-libbed pet peeve about how DX shouldnt replace SA1 as the defacto version, especially in media regarding the Dreamcast and SA1's legacy. Edit: further along, have you been watching my Sonic Theories?
some ideas for boost game stipulations: - playing the unleashed day levels with the generations conversion mod. theres something there about looking at games in a holistic way, whether taking out the 'bad' parts and putting it on a newer engine is actually better. i know that personally id rather play the mod than the original, but i would never call it definitive or superior -not using the boost mechanic itself, wherever possible. this would be more an exercise in exploring mechanical and design differences in this era, rather than discussing something meta -playing through a game with the music muted. i think there could be something interesting there given how spectacle driven the boost stages are, and how much the music contributes to that. in a broader sense it could be a discussion about diegetic aspects of games, seeing the difference between the 'true' representation of the world with its natural ambience, and the pathos added by the meta element of the music. in a way, a score is like the authors hand showing, defining the atmosphere and emotions of a scene through means that don't exist within the fiction. (edit: didn't know you already did this for CD) -playing the 3ds version of generations. you touched on that era of vastly different versions of ports in this video; gens 3ds is one of the last ones i can think of and a perfect platform to discuss it in depth
Sonic Unleashed Around the World, each section of the game can only be played in the real-life region it takes place in (or is heavily inspired by) This is probably going to be awfully expensive, especially if the game requires you to backtrack (I don't know if it does) or a region is taking longer to beat than expected.
@@Tehsnakererthe other fella is Flawed Peacock, he made it not too far ago, I became a fan of his a bit before he dropped the Sonic video and a kick ass video too, currently watching the video rn and this another banger video keep it up !!!
Love adventure, sad that the used 2s engine to make heros… It blew my mind to realize they just increased caracter speed in a solid engine, which caused weird issues. It took some one elses review to put it on display, but you will notice aquardly the sonic adventure 2 safty feature come up in heros and shadow. Showing its SA2s engine, but instead of as intended stopping a slip up if your button timing was bad, saving you from going of the ledge, the speed up timing of everything simply makes it snag removing all momentum then dropping you off the edge.
For Sonic Unleashed (maybe Generations) and I'm not kidding when I say this- play the day time stages without boosting, genuinely an interesting way to play the game.
Really great video Snake! The SA1>SA2 opinion is one I share. The other year I decided to play SA1 and SA2 for the first time back to back, and SA1's unapologetic camp and janky-ness combined with very fun gameplay made it one of my favourites instantly. SA2.... aside from the speed stages, story and music it was absolutely dreadful to play through, and I don't think I want to touch it ever again. Unleashed is my favourite sonic game and so I have a suggestion... play the day stages WITHOUT boost. I don't think some stages are actually playable like that so I actually have a better suggestion- play the PS2 version. Perhaps also without boost but I think that's still not feasible lol. As for the night stages... dance pad.
Love the video, kept me hooked from start to finish and honestly may be the best video yet. Since you asked for suggestions at the end, Sonic Generations but you play the 3ds version with the 3d on, use it as an excuse to talk about the lost art of games that were demaked for other platforms, alternativley this can be done with sonic unleashed.
I distinctly remember pre-ordering Sonic Adventure DX and realizing that it wasn’t the same game that I played on the Dreamcast. Like, it was noticeably different. When I tried to explain to friends that it was different, none of them understood because none of them owned a Dreamcast. I’m pretty sure I was one of the only ones in my class, let alone my entire school, that owned a Dreamcast when it was contemporary.
Suggestion for one of the boost games (not sure which, but i suppose it depends on what you consider the boost games. Forces would be most appropriate probably.) try playing it with various rockband/guitar hero instruments as a band and use that as a jumping off point to talk about not just the sonic music but the place of vocal tracks in video games. Specifically someone on a sifferent instrument for different parts of the controls. IE having guitar be attacking/menu interaction, drums be directionals, and vocals being acceleration (if you can jury rig the directions to a joystick emulation and set the amounts of the tilt by the vocal intensity). It's a topic I can talk about for a while, but the use of lyrical songs in a game's score is fascinating to me. Except a couple specific anime it's rare for most non-musical media to include bespoke songs in a score. But on that same note, there's only 3 games I know of I could classify as actual musicals. What I consider to be video game musicals are fairly arbitrary, but I think they need to have more than 1 song that in some way moves the plot forward, narrates something, or is about how a character feels, and it must be sung by a character in the narrative- even a narrator or someone similar. The only three games I know of that meet the criteria are Warframe, Alan Wake 1, and Alan Wake 2. Even then AW1barely clears it with 2 songs that meet the criteria. It also helps that the songs are diagetic, although that's not a requirement in my eyes. Of course this is just what I consider musical games, which I don't believe any sonic game passes. But I think the discussion around lyrical music in games and its use is something you might be able to get a lot out of, especially because of the deep earnestness of force's songs.
Here is an idea: try playing one of the Sonic games in a different language, like spanish, german or french. It could maybe bring a topic about the nature of dubs. About how they started, how they are nowadays, why some people prefer foreign language dubs, more than the ones that they can understand. The idea came from when I replayed Yakuza and Judgment games in English and ended up really enjoying them. The interesting part is that I ended up being more attached to some of the characters more when I played it in Japanese (like Namba, Zhao, Yagami and Tomizawa). Though the legacy characters took more time to get used to Kiryu, Majima, Saejima and Daigo. I think it's interesting with how just changing the language felt like a completely new experience.
Paid mods really aren't that bad, though it depends. Paradox Interactive notably licensed their game engine out to talented modders to allow them to fully realize their own vision without the constraints of regular modding, although they sadly gave up on it after both East vs West and Magna Mundi were shoddily put together. Also, registration for online play was already a thing in the 90s and (very) early 2000s on PC
I like the idea for at least one of the boost games to play the mobile version, preferably Unleashed. It could lead to an interesting discussion about how much value companies see in certain platforms, or lack thereof. Just the first thing that came to mind
This dinner is gonna taste extra delicious. Thanks for the upload Snakeman. Edit: Holy shit I did not expect Breen to appear in this video lol. God bless that man. Keep making movies Neil!
How to play Sonic Unleashed wrong feels like a relatively simple one, at least for Daytime. Don't boost. Does the game work without it's central gimmick or does it lean on it so much as a crutch, especially with the extremely difficult bonus and DLC levels which are built to not be played that way but demand you boost constantly to get an S-rank
You mentioned the frustration that comes from games that won't let you jump, restricting the feeling of freedom and unintentional level breaking. Which reminds me of a dev story I heard about the Blade II movie tie in game. (I heard this like over a decade ago and could just be an urban legend, but it's too hilarious and on brand for how chaotic game dev can be to not talk about.) In the final product, Blade can only jump as like a dodge move or in contextual situations. Supposedly during development, you could jump freely for platforming. BUT, for some reason letting Blade jump around completely caused problems with the rest of the code resulting in the game being super buggy. Everyone was tearing their hair out trying to figure out what the hell was going on before finally settling on cutting the ability to jump. They then did an evaluation how many sections had to be redone or cut to adjust for the jump removal, only to find... That there was only one section. Truly embodying the spirit of trying to iceskate uphill, it's something I think about whenever thinking about jumping in games. Also loving the video so far! I was also the right age for Sonic Adventure to the point where I felt not having a Dreamcast was one of the worst things ever and that I would never experience cool stuff like this and Soul Calibur. Hearing you explain the absolute shitshow that is the accessibility of playing the "best" version of SA hilariously makes me feel like child me was right all along.
For Sonic Unleashed: Play the fight-levels as fast as possible and try to kill all enemies in the speed-levels. I don't know how much intentional speedrunning is possible in the night-levels, but I think there are some very interesting things to say about enemies, their role (more obstacles than fights), and their placement in the day-levels.
2:01:59 "I do not know how far off the boost era video will be, but it will be someday" I can't be the only one who heard "it will be Sunday" like you're asking for help and revealing it's gonna be out in 2 days.
Sonic Adventure was my one and only sonic game, played it a lot on my Dreamcast growing up along with Rayman and Tomb Raider. None of the others I've tried really feel the same, and now I want to replay it!
play rush without boosting, and discuss how dimps has been secretly responsible for the direction the series has went and how innovation isnt always made in ways or by the people you expect IE rush inventing boost mechanics or that time they gave sonic a wind blade kick in lost world which would be adapted as one of sonics many moves in frontiers
This was fantastic, as always. Really enjoyed all the gimmicks here, and the freeform discussions! One of my favorite things about the Sonic community (frustrating as it often can be) is how, for as many consensus pitfalls as we often fall into, there's always people talking about things in a way that make me rethink my own perceptions on these games.
I enjoy (different from liking) Sonic Heroes, but every person who talks about it seems to say it’s bad or, paradoxically, overrated. But despite it, one thing never changes: I refuse to complete it. Needing to play through effectively the same stage 6 times but with wacky changes to gameplay that, besides the 2 times you play as the Chaotix I intentionally left out, are the same throughout the three other teams. So I have two suggestions. 1. Sonic Colors, but played until Super Sonic is unlocked. The lengths some people go to “complete” a game is often times ludicrous, and while Colors isn’t the worst to complete, it’s perhaps the most mundane and out-of-the-way. 2. On the topic of rankings, playing each stage in any game until you get the best ranking. Just a nice jumping point to possibly go further into a small part of these games since SA2. Legitimately enjoyed watching this video. Great work!
in 2003ish ive watched my older bro play the original on dreamcast and ive played it a bit myself, although i was scared of losing control of the quick characters and falling off a platform. in 2013ish ive replayed the dx version on steam. i could barely pin point whats different. from childhood i think i remember specifically us kids struggling and joking about the collision errors and the wonky camera. if anything, newer versions have improved collisions? idk
It's not the all encompassing thing, but in a lot of "games are dead" circles and vids they tend to just dismiss indies as games about queerness or depression. Whether it's genuine ignorance or they need to disregard them to hold onto their misery I don't know. I think when they're bashing AAA games they don't really want there to be an alternative cause they wanna complain. It's a stupid view that only a select group hold. Most people know indie is far more varied than that.
Well that was an interesting video. Gave me a lot to think about. Mostly about how I stumbled across the Sonic Wiki when I was 11 and that's how I learnt the dark secrets of Archie's Sonic comic.
Sonic unleashed was released across two console generations, Colours, Generations, and Lost World have handheld versions, so you'll some material to work with.
I played 06 as a kid and somehow beat it. It was an alright buggy game. Personally, I'm more interested in Project 06. That fan remake, while not jank, helps us see the game Sega wanted to make, but lacked tye time to.
Now this is in no way to discredit the section, and I do love the topic and discussion that came from the direction you chose, but I think it's very funny that your way to 'Play' Sonic the Hedgehog 2006 was to, as far as the video suggests, not play it at all. I can't help but pat you on the back for that, assuming it was intentional. Also I suppose for my own suggestion for a gimmick of play for the Sonic series (that sounds too natural nowadays, ugh) I'd suggest having one of the games (likely either Colors, Generations, or Lost World) be a coverage of their handheld versions released around the same time, as those games end up sparking a theme about how games, Sonic or otherwise, can turn the same ideas into diverting directions through multiple factors in their developments.
Oh hey I have an idea for a way to play one of the boost games actually. You could try playing one *without* boosting, and lead that into a discussion about attention spans or game length.
I rented Sonic 06 as an out of touch 16 year old and, as somebody who hadn't played a Sonic game since Sonic 3 and knuckles I just assumed I didn't get it. I played like maybe three or four levels and just put it down. Coming back after all of the discourse I realize I probably just didn't get it.
Snake is a speed type, Sweed is a flying type, UA-cam's hotcyder is a power type
Sonic Unleashed but you only play the day/night stages when it's day/night irl. It will really make you *feel* like Sonic.
Will it make him feel the exaggerated swagger of a blue hedgehog though?
But also when playing at night he needs to wear wrist-weights while his hands submerged in honey
Oh god, Eggmanland...
Eggmanland takes weeks
this is a good one
In relation to the Sonic Heroes section, one game that was a surprising hit when I visited a friend of mine this summer was Balan Wonderworld in co-op.
Balan Wonderworld's co-op allows your two player characters to stick together by touching each other. When magnetised together both players are able to control your two characters as one unit, only breaking apart when both players move away from each other.
But most importantly - by sticking to each other, your individual powerups can be used together.
Suddenly, the game is no longer a one button game.
Want a weapon and a jump ability at the same time?
Together you can do that.
Want the speed-up 50% of the time power-up 100% of the time?
Time your activation with your partner and you're going fast forever.
Want a speed-up and a glide at the same time?
Sure, go wild!
You can end up with some silly combos that can launch you across the levels and explore in ways the game was clearly never designed for - but it was compelling to experiment with mixing and matching the tools and seeing what we could come up with.
When we looked up discussions of the game afterwards we were surprised to see just how little attention there was for this mode. I thought even despite the game's dire reputation that at least someone would have seen the potential in it like we did.
Instead we've just been annoying all our other friends by becoming irritating evangelists for it ever since. And I guess that's now spread here too, so, uh, sorry about that.
Don't get me wrong, it didn't save Balan or anything, it's still a very flawed game - but I think in the right hands this co-op style could be turned into something special - and seeing Heroes played with three people is only re-affirming that to me.
Maybe one day...
@@asbyeternal291 I dont think thats a value of balan tho, i think its that everything is more fun with friends. I didnt enjoy my time with life is strange, but it sure was fun to torture my sister with it
that sounds fascinating. Shame it's something hidden behind something that evidently not a lot of people weer aware of.
@@goldengolem4670 thing is, this demonstrates that playing balan in co-op _directly improves the play experience._ it's something very distinct from horsing around with friends via the excuse of a crummy game or show or whatever, because in that the friction with the media is maintained because that's the _point,_ you're having a laugh as your friends and family suffer through this shared experience. but in this case, one of balan's major flaws is how the absurd degree of simplification just makes the game slow and limited at the best of times and tedious at its worst. by letting a second player effectively become a second button in a one-button game, you introduce an _absurd_ degree of depth and experimentation and general nonsense that was lost by shedding a player down to basic locomotion and a single verb, and the fact that it's done through a second player also adds all the elements of coordination, communication, and mischief that cooperative experiences are so good at manifesting
it sounds more comparable to those games that are _designed_ to be multiplayer first and foremost, but let you play solo with ai teammates without actually letting you engage with the main co-op mechanics so you just end up with a drab, by-the-numbers experience with some npcs that sometimes do something useful. and it makes me wonder - are there two kids that are nominally both part of the story because, at some point in development, co-op was _supposed_ to be the primary mode? because not only does it apparently _vastly_ improve the gameplay, but also the idea of two friends pairing their hyperspecific talents to cover the other's weaknesses and conquer otherwise intimidating obstacles with ease is an absolutely _perfect_ fit for the type of story it is
@@goldengolem4670 It absolutely is a value of Balan. A simple exercise - what would be more fun, contriving ways to play the singleplayer mode of Balan Wonderland with your mate like sharing the controller, or playing the dedicated coop mode?
As someone who has seen others dismiss the idea that stories that play with ludicrous concepts can also tackle deeper themes or ideas…
Thank you.
It’s something that bothers me when people don’t try to engage a story on its terms because “Oh this boss attacks with bees” or the like.
(A specific example I know. Yes the Game in question is Metal Gear Solid 3. No I do not think the person has good taste.)
To see someone willingly to engage with earnest stories with earnestness… means a lot to me.
Sonic holds a dear place in my childhood, even if I can’t claim to have played most of the Franchise.
Or even be good at the ones I have played.
But the character of free spirited blue speedster has kept me interested in this series despite it all.
Which is weird when you see people loving manga/anime who are full of that shit every day.
A game i recently played Lies of P resulted in me feeling really disappointed at how public domain stuff has been handled as mainly jokes, while lies of p plays it genuine as a base for their setting.
That bit about being unable to find any evidence that people "turned" on SA2's story plays well with the theory I've had for ages now: the Sonic fanbase exists as an anti-echo chamber, where everyone is trapped in an endless cycle of gaslighting themselves that the latest hot take is actually popular concensus.
To be clear, I couldn't find no evidence. Just so little that it feels incredibly overblown when compared to the tidal wave it is made out as. You got a couple vids, scattered forum threads and articles, and most of the blowback even then is gameplay focused. Not saying it totally didn't happen. But people who like SA2 overplay it for a talking point
Good lord you're exactly right. I can't believe someone finally put it into words lol
My hunch is the years of mockery have made the fanbase so hyper-sensitive to criticism that now the critics are actually over-represented in discourse by sheer word of mouth, if that makes sense.
@@QuintessentialWalrus Its a bit more split than that but you are correct. On the one hand you have the hyper defensive types and on the other side you have the ones who are trying SO hard to prove they aren't that they'll bat for really stupid takes like the ones that typically come from games journalists or AVGN clones. While Sonic fans are the only people who still get offended over Arin Hanson, Sonic fans are also the only ones who actually defend Arin Hanson.
"Gentrified Jank" What a horrible term. I am stealing that.
I know from the Yakuza videos that Tehsnakerer is the Champion of Gentrification
It's so good and so terrible I adore it
Sonic was never hood [BUZZER SOUND]
Sonic was never food [BUZZER SOUND]
Sonic was never wood [EXTREMELY LOUD BUZZER SOUND]
Sonic is more hood than people give him credit for. You'd be surprised how many big rappers cite Sonic as their inspiration for getting into the genre.
@@HOTD108_ yeah thats why the buzzer played?
Hmm, yes, sonic IS blood
@@manjackson2772well yeah, if he was crip then he probably wouldn’t run as fast
YO
For the longest time, Pokecapn's LP of '06 was an absolute favorite of mine. A real casual "we're just kinda wingin' it" vibe about it.
In recent years, MattMcmuscles' LP ended up taking the top spot, and I feel it's almost entirely due to Liam being at the controls. Going in completely blind, he brought his usual can-do attitude and gave the game the fairest of chances, while still being critical when necessary (and the rare "okay, this ACTUALLY sucks" moments were worth it). Taking alternate routes in stages (usually to get the Silver Medals), doing side missions I didn't even know existed, feeling that sense of "what could have been" when the game didn't always stick its landings, and genuinely getting excited by parts of the game that were kinda hype, he approached the game in a way I hadn't seen others do and it was such a refreshing change of pace. It's a very fun playthrough for me to revisit.
Pokecapn LP mention!! God that series made so many of my childhood evenings
"All we can ever really do is say what we feel right now" is such a powerful quote from a video about Sonic video games. Thank you for another banger.
I attribute a lot of the current success of sonic right now to one crucial thing: Fans of the series that got into the gaming industry - and then got into Sega. I always remember Aaron Webber, who spent years at Sega's social team, being one of the first "funny social media accounts" before the concept got infuriating. I remember the story of how Sonic Mania likely wouldn't have happened if not for his suggestion - and with it, Sega's renaissance might not have happened either.
The late 2010s - 2017 in particular, were very formative years for Sega, I feel. Sonic was learning to take itself seriously again, and Yakuza finally got the recognition it always deserved. I can only imagine everyone at Sega feeling this vindication that all their efforts were finally paying off properly - and it likely only happened because a few dedicated folk decided to push towards it, because Sega themselves felt defeated.
It took a fan effort to localize yakuza 5, which then made them localize yakuza 0, and it took one dedicated sonic fan to poke at the idea of getting fans to do ports of the classic sonic games, then mania. Knowing that Aaron Webber is now at Sega's planning team makes me confident that they're only improving from here - we've gone past downhill, now it's time for the dizzying heights.
Hell yeah, that's a great write up and I feel you're onto something
There’s a bizarrely similar story to that with an indie game that recently came out called Arzette: Jewel of Faramore. It’s a giant send up of the CDI Zelda games, but rather than being a parody, it’s a love letter. It’s a genuinely well made game, and it feels like the creators took a look past all the YTPs (of which they made several) and at how the ideas in the games themselves could have worked.
@@nerdyvids1 I love Arzette for signifying that we're at the point where funny things from ~20 years ago are looked upon with genuine fondness.
@@nerdyvids1 Yeah that one's pretty cool. In a similar vein (I definitely remember Zelda 2 being the but of several internet diss sessions back in the day) I think the Zelda 2 Remastered guy put out an original IP based on the gameplay of it, but I can't remember what it was called.
Yakuza 5 and 0 weren't localised by fans lmao, both got official localisations by the same teams that had localised the earlier titles as well.
honey not now, the pun man is playing sonic wrong again
Regarding ideas for the boost era, you could try doing it WITHOUT using the boost.
Once you take out the defining characteristic of an era, what are you left with? Can a game survive or even thrive if you do without its main component? Can you use what’s left to replace that part?
Plus, it’s a good segue into self imposed challenges, and new ways to replay games.
Have you seen what people have done to Mario 64 to avoid pressing the A button? How Pokemon completely changes when a nuzlocke player needs to dive deep into Pokemon strategy?
dude i'm not even 10 minutes in and the way you put your love of SA1 into words makes me feel like ive just rediscovered why i love the game so much myself
Sonic Boost Era, but you choose to walk
sonic leas... forget I even tried to talk.
This vid is a masterpiece, your scripting skills are actually nuts. You can tell this vid was crafted with a lot of love and effort. I too like exploring how people discuss media and culture so all the nitty gritty was right up my alley
The moment you asked for suggestions for the next video i already knew exactly what to suggest. Play through all of unleashed on a completed file so you can replay whatever level, and then play through all the day stages back to back, then all the night stages back to back.
I will not say what i think you can gleam and subsequently discuss from this experience bc its funnier that way.
Only now am I finding out there's a mod to fix SA2 PC's stick calibration issues. Thank fuck.
For boost ideas, you could try the Mario 64 mod for Generations. It could potentially open up some discussion of mod scenes in general, the unleashed project for Generations (which could link with a discussion of how a lot of people prefer to ignore that werehog stages exist), the mario 64 PC port and other reverse engineering projects, Sega's laissez faire approach to fangames and mods, or just talking about movement in platformers (Mario 64 is famously designed to "just be fun to move around" but place it in generations levels and you get tedium and jank).
I don't really give much of a shit about sonic outside of 2 and generations though so I got no idea for the rest of the boost games. Maybe an F rank only speedrun or something? Could maybe prompt some discussion about scoring systems, like exploring how some shmups become completely different games when you get good at them and are going for high scores instead of just survival or how character action games often rely on you caring about your score/rank in order to get any sort of enjoyment out of them.
Really appreciate the dig at nitpicky youtubers who want to be smart so badly they become immune to subtext or nuance (or fun), especially appreciated coming from a guy who always seems to be having fun even when he's negative and doesn't take himself too seriously (shown- up by shonen, really?)
I remember this Generations mod I played that allowed you to play as Classic Sonic in Modern stages and vice versa, that I had fun with the novelty of it for a few hours. There might be something in there about how the same space can be recontextualized when you swap in a completely different character to move through it.
my suggestion, tho more accurate to say a half baked notion springboarding off rushed games: playing a game akin to someone in quality assurance.
-
Stopping to jot down notes, trying to make bugs repeatible, etc. Not even for the fallen of a tree low hanging fruit of known bugs, but just as an exercise in how much time ACTUALLY takes to do that kind of work. (reminds me a bit of speedrunners looking for timesaves too.)
I feel its underappreciated but wholly nessicary for a game to function.
I always love when people realize that nitpicking a game is a sign that they like the series, IP or game itself. They care enough to notice these things. I love the look on peoples faces when I rip a game apart and then inform them that it was fun. They can't even fathom it. There seems to be this issue where people think that if you like something it's good. You can like bad things. For example crap is bad. It is literal waste and yet there are people that like crap. I'm being literal here but it makes the point well enough.
Criticism needs to stop being seen as hate. Alpha Protocol played like absolute crap on console compared to PC but all that did was make me want to get the game on PC. On the flip side the only reason I remember Space Siege is because it's that one Sega game like Dungeon Siege and honestly I can't remember a whole lot from it because nothing stood out. It's hilarious to think back and say I have never recommended Space Siege but I have recommended Alpha Protocol despite Space Siege being a very tight and well put together experience that didn't have the glaring weak points Alpha Protocol has.
I feel like for Generations, playing it with the SM64 decomp Mario mod could be a good vehicle for discussing how we compare Sonic and his legacy to others. There's definitely some other additional layers that could be pulled away and analyzed with it but I can't be nearly as clever as you are with how you create parallels between weird gameplay methods and metacontextual discussion. Seriously, your videos are really good.
In the nicest way possible. you and Ross are like two sides of the fantastic content coin.
I was getting genuinely misty-eyed at the conclusion to The UA-camr Game section where you were talking about honest failures and how fandom opinion is largely a passing thing. I think this might be my favorite video of yours! Your script really captured the wide range of contextual factors that go into creating and releasing something. How people react to that is generally one of my favorite topics. Nice work!
"Condemned to Eternal Darkness that's all Too human to forget ever happened"
Brilliant Line.
Btw, I've been looking forward to this video for a while and it did not disappoint and I feel it's one of your best videos you've done. Your segments on Sonic Adventure 2 and even the third section of 06, I feel was by far the strongest section and personally was the one I think I identified most, regarding how people can view and critique and inherent positives and negatives. Made for a very strong discussing because Frankly while I'm not a huge fan of the game, I completely agree that SA2 is a good example of that sort of subject. Speaking from someone who is not a sonic but has probably similar passion and attachment for other series(Resident Evil would be mine), I'm kind of jealous how well you've written and articulated things on commenting on these subjects,
God Speed Snake.
Definitely making a video about youtube and the internet zeitgeist with sonic b-roll truly achieves doing "talking about playing sonic the wrong way" in a wrong (but interesting) way.
Snake continues to deliver pure quality. Thanks for the great video
I honestly didn't know what I was going to be getting out of this video when I clicked on it, but I really enjoyed it! I can't really put my thoughts together neatly but this is such an intriguing and lovely video. A lot of what it presented about the way we interact with games is going to be sticking with me for a while
This is easily my new favorite video of yours for the sheer amount of topics you're able to cover.
so many gags in this video are great but it also was a REALLY interesting look into alll sorts of discussions. i enjoyed this a lot
Suggestions for the boost games, only play it on someone else's computer via parsec or steam remote play together. Covid really put into perspective just how much gaming changed in how it is experienced. Even splitscreen or couch co-op games are now available online and that's weird to me as someone who grew up on the n64 and gamecube. Also I think the lag would be terribly inconvenient and would make for at least a challenging experience.
Amazing video as always, props and cheers for making this one have so many topics in one, the way I binged it made it feel like all these parts stood well as their own.
And as for suggestions, only things that comes to mind is what if you played a game as if it was trailer editing gig or really maybe broaden the scope and have to force yourself in shoes of community manager trying to pitch the game to wider audience. Would be interesting insight in way how we present games before release or way people may hook others into experiencing it. How we present information from someone who has some gain from it doing well. Although fair if it wouldn't be something you want to dwell into.
Other suggestion, is the mention of achievement hunting made me think about these kind of folks who play the game with the guide always open, but in a way to purely do everything 100% in most optimal way, focusing more on the guides than the game they talk about. And I think that would be interesting talk how we format guides, walkthroughs and how people may approach them. How sometimes the guide makers put their flair of personality into writing paragraphs of what to do. From steam guides, to forum posts, to silent 100% completion long format videos.
11 minutes in and there are already so many sly puns that i lost count of them, this is why you're my favorite reviewer Snakerer
Been a fan of your channel for a while and I never thought I'd see you make a video on Sonic of all franchises, but after sitting down and watching the whole thing, it was worth the wait and your critique of SA1 especially still resonates with me
I really like your opinion of game discussion as a race. When I think back on the type of content I watch on youtube now its not really reviews of modern releases, but videos talking about old or obscure games long after the fact. In that time, context has been built and made available (usually) and the pool of opinions has grown so diverse that its cozy to hear any take on a game. By the time games reach their sunset of relevance any bandwagoning has subsided and discussion feels much more rational and level-headed. In that way, it makes playing older titles even more engaging as I am able to not just enjoy the work but also enjoy the life that the work has had from its conception to its legacy
This might be pushing it a bit but... for colors or generations, play the DS versions instead. It's one of the like... last real relics of an era of games that had multiple versions for portable consoles, where the version was just a straight up completely different game. You don't really see that much these days. Mobile phone games are typically something completely different with mobile in mind, and the only real portable console is also a home console at the same time.
I didn't expect this video to be such a well-written and introspective writeup on not only the perception of Sonic, but games as a whole and how changing times leads to different opinions and perspectives end up changing depending on the circumstances of a certain era, but it was really fun to see it be presented with a ton of great examples alongside those topics. Plus. the analysis was as great as ever, especially regarding the more broader remarks about this industry and assumptions people can make.
Regarding suggestions for the eventual next installment in this series, I guess I'll throw my hat into the ring by suggesting that instead of showcasing the "main" version of the Boost Games (Unleashed on PS3/Xbox, Colors on Wii, Generations on PS3/Xbox/PC, etc), maybe try out the versions of the games that may be considered lesser in the eyes of the general public, like the PS2/Wii version of Unleashed (or the version of the game for Java phones) or the 3DS version of Generations. And as for the topic of discussion that can be derived from those versions, maybe it could be about how back in the day, there was an incentive for companies to make multiple versions of a game (or release a separate version of that game with differing/completely different gameplay) on less powerful hardware. There could also be a focus on whether or not these versions of a specific game even have merit despite being inferior to the version people consider the "main" one, even as they fall into obscurity as the years go by, along with how you don't see many different versions of a game due to the tech basically having caught up/plateaued by our current year.
oh my god the projared segment had me in stitches, you're such a GOAT snake
What a great video. Don't even care about sonic outside of the 2d platformers but this is intriguing
"These stages are playgrounds" ... "You really get to play on-and-off these grounds"
True artistry, you never fail to get a giggle out of me
What a perfect timing!
I was just in the middle of watching the older reviews.
One thing that Sonic Heroes did, and that I truly miss from the other big 3D sonic games, is making a coherent art style that looks like it would not be out of place in the 2D counterparts, especially the OG games. SA1 and SA2 still had a lot of cartoony elements, but they were going for a more drab, realistic look.
This video actually cements you as my favorite youtuber, as someone whos watched your yakuza 5 video twice lmfao, you just do it in a way no one else does man!
I'm not gonna go too deep on this idea just in a comments section, but I legitimately think Shadow the Hedgehog should've been an immersive sim. Like genuinely think about that for a few minutes. What the game is trying to do as it is. Condense the stage count (there's already a few that are basically just slightly alternate versions of other stages) into a more linear path with occasional branches into two potential stages, and give you a few potential missions per stage and maybe let you do multiple even. Play off the dynamic between GUN, Eggman, Black Doom as different factions, with Shadow in the middle. Give shadow different weapons and abilities based on previous missions, and change up what future missions are available based on them too.
Obviously this isn't just that simple, and this would be a whole new game entirely with a ton of additional work. But I think this would've been a great path for the game just looking at what the game was trying to do.
for sonic unleashed, I'd argue the best approach to playing it wrong is with the sonic generations mod that puts in the day and night stages from unleashed, where you play as day time sonic in the night time stages
Loved this one. Worth the wait 100%, I have never seen someone explain my thoughts on sa2 (it’s the coolest shit ever, literally unmatched, shadow is goated, I never, ever want to play it over sa1). Also top of my head, unleashed can’t be modded on a console, and doing the video on a pc port of the daytime segments would feel cheap, so I’d suggest to talk about the incredible boost gameplay for like 4 minutes and then have over an hour of analysis about the werehog gameplay as if it were part of one of your yakuza videos would be goated. The idea of you talking about how something like shield cancelling turned that half of the game into a blast for you is what I’m hoping to see, cause I do think it’s underrated when gone at as an actual game instead of as a chore. I think it could be used to talk about experimentation within a target audience’s range as a result. And if you don’t want to write another yakuza type video I totally get it, but keep in mind by the time you get to editing playing sonic wrong 3 you’ll probably be a while removed from your video about Yakuza 9: Return of Shimano
Damn, I felt that "it's been two years" at the start...well glad to see it back.
Unlike that time.
I missed you man. So happy you are still making art like this. Cant wait for the next vid
A great video as always snake,
Your subtle dry wordplay is always a joy
The worst part of this video is speaking through "live and learn" which is a fucking great song
Your memories of SA2-bashing are so interesting to me. I'm an EXTREMELY fair-weather Sonic fan (the last game I played was Generations, I think?) but I was there for the Dreamcast and at least in my circle of friends, everyone LOVED SA2 and basically thought it was an antidote to what they perceived as the negatives of SA1 - I adored and adore SA1 and remember having to defend it to my friends plenty. Maybe I just missed all the early 2010s UA-camrs, but this video is literally the first time I had heard that SA2 was considered anything less than a triumph.
I wish the internet hadn't ruined Sonic Adventure for me. The fanbase has been so disgustingly elitist and toxic about it that my enjoyment has been destroyed. Sonic just kinda hurts now.
The Section on overly literal critique and people who are supposedly "objectively" analyzing a piece of media ironically understanding less of it than a more casual viewer very much resonated with me
There's a certain podcast, which I will not name (because its fans are a bit... weird) that I stopped watching for this very reason. Even when it was PAINFULLY obvious that a point that had been made would be elaborated on, challenged or otherwise expanded upon just a minute later, they would still pause the video and discuss for minutes on end how it made "literally no sense"... only to then be disproven 30 seconds later by the very same video. And this would continue ad nauseum for potentially hours of a full podcast dragging on... and on... and on... and on...
And its not like I'd seen these videos ahead of time or anything, it was my first time seeing them too, yet these people couldn't help themselves but take everything at 200% face value, to the point that they missed the bloody forest for the trees.
Your comparison of people going through "stages" as they grow up and consume media I think is very succinct, because I believe a lot of people fail to realize that "rational" intelligence is not the only thing necessary to understand and challenge media. Emotional intelligence is of equal or perhaps greater value, but also requires that the person earnestly engage with the piece of media and try their best to be forthcoming and understanding, at least for a time. In other words, it takes maturity to see a story for its face value, its deeper value and the things hidden between the lines
But hey, its much easier to just be snarky and impatient, then actually properly engage with something, right?
Anyway, weird rant over, thank you Snake for making me think and putting into words what often miffs me with certain "critics" out there
a sequel to that video is a surprise to be sure, but a welcome one
I'm glad you set the stage for xenus discussion. Same for Die Hard Vendetta.
Out of curiosity, you've mentioned Dead Rising 1 being one of your favorites a few times, though you've never gone for 100%. As someone who's just suffered through the 7 days in endless achievement, might be a great idea for a video.
Currently in Sonic Adventure chapter 2, you literally made the same points i made with my SADX video, about preservation of the original, how DX is the worst yet widely available version and how if MGS was replaced by the remake.
Even after that, i'm still getting flack for my ad-libbed pet peeve about how DX shouldnt replace SA1 as the defacto version, especially in media regarding the Dreamcast and SA1's legacy.
Edit: further along, have you been watching my Sonic Theories?
some ideas for boost game stipulations:
- playing the unleashed day levels with the generations conversion mod. theres something there about looking at games in a holistic way, whether taking out the 'bad' parts and putting it on a newer engine is actually better. i know that personally id rather play the mod than the original, but i would never call it definitive or superior
-not using the boost mechanic itself, wherever possible. this would be more an exercise in exploring mechanical and design differences in this era, rather than discussing something meta
-playing through a game with the music muted. i think there could be something interesting there given how spectacle driven the boost stages are, and how much the music contributes to that. in a broader sense it could be a discussion about diegetic aspects of games, seeing the difference between the 'true' representation of the world with its natural ambience, and the pathos added by the meta element of the music. in a way, a score is like the authors hand showing, defining the atmosphere and emotions of a scene through means that don't exist within the fiction.
(edit: didn't know you already did this for CD)
-playing the 3ds version of generations. you touched on that era of vastly different versions of ports in this video; gens 3ds is one of the last ones i can think of and a perfect platform to discuss it in depth
Sonic Unleashed Around the World, each section of the game can only be played in the real-life region it takes place in (or is heavily inspired by)
This is probably going to be awfully expensive, especially if the game requires you to backtrack (I don't know if it does) or a region is taking longer to beat than expected.
It's been a while since I've watched you! Happy to see you're still going....fast.
BOTH OF MY LONG CONTENT CREATORS MAKING SONIC PEAK??? I’m in love dawg I love ya man best thing to see coming off of work
What's the other video? I'm curious.
@@Tehsnakererthe other fella is Flawed Peacock, he made it not too far ago, I became a fan of his a bit before he dropped the Sonic video and a kick ass video too, currently watching the video rn and this another banger video keep it up !!!
Love adventure, sad that the used 2s engine to make heros… It blew my mind to realize they just increased caracter speed in a solid engine, which caused weird issues.
It took some one elses review to put it on display, but you will notice aquardly the sonic adventure 2 safty feature come up in heros and shadow. Showing its SA2s engine, but instead of as intended stopping a slip up if your button timing was bad, saving you from going of the ledge, the speed up timing of everything simply makes it snag removing all momentum then dropping you off the edge.
For Sonic Unleashed (maybe Generations) and I'm not kidding when I say this- play the day time stages without boosting, genuinely an interesting way to play the game.
Really great video Snake! The SA1>SA2 opinion is one I share. The other year I decided to play SA1 and SA2 for the first time back to back, and SA1's unapologetic camp and janky-ness combined with very fun gameplay made it one of my favourites instantly. SA2.... aside from the speed stages, story and music it was absolutely dreadful to play through, and I don't think I want to touch it ever again.
Unleashed is my favourite sonic game and so I have a suggestion... play the day stages WITHOUT boost. I don't think some stages are actually playable like that so I actually have a better suggestion- play the PS2 version. Perhaps also without boost but I think that's still not feasible lol. As for the night stages... dance pad.
Love the video, kept me hooked from start to finish and honestly may be the best video yet.
Since you asked for suggestions at the end, Sonic Generations but you play the 3ds version with the 3d on, use it as an excuse to talk about the lost art of games that were demaked for other platforms, alternativley this can be done with sonic unleashed.
I distinctly remember pre-ordering Sonic Adventure DX and realizing that it wasn’t the same game that I played on the Dreamcast. Like, it was noticeably different. When I tried to explain to friends that it was different, none of them understood because none of them owned a Dreamcast. I’m pretty sure I was one of the only ones in my class, let alone my entire school, that owned a Dreamcast when it was contemporary.
I think trying to 100% (or at least complete) a game in one sitting could create some interesting discussion
Sonic Generations in stereoscopic 3D with 3D glasses and talk about the use of stereoscopic 3D in gaming
Suggestion for one of the boost games (not sure which, but i suppose it depends on what you consider the boost games. Forces would be most appropriate probably.) try playing it with various rockband/guitar hero instruments as a band and use that as a jumping off point to talk about not just the sonic music but the place of vocal tracks in video games. Specifically someone on a sifferent instrument for different parts of the controls. IE having guitar be attacking/menu interaction, drums be directionals, and vocals being acceleration (if you can jury rig the directions to a joystick emulation and set the amounts of the tilt by the vocal intensity).
It's a topic I can talk about for a while, but the use of lyrical songs in a game's score is fascinating to me. Except a couple specific anime it's rare for most non-musical media to include bespoke songs in a score. But on that same note, there's only 3 games I know of I could classify as actual musicals. What I consider to be video game musicals are fairly arbitrary, but I think they need to have more than 1 song that in some way moves the plot forward, narrates something, or is about how a character feels, and it must be sung by a character in the narrative- even a narrator or someone similar.
The only three games I know of that meet the criteria are Warframe, Alan Wake 1, and Alan Wake 2. Even then AW1barely clears it with 2 songs that meet the criteria. It also helps that the songs are diagetic, although that's not a requirement in my eyes.
Of course this is just what I consider musical games, which I don't believe any sonic game passes. But I think the discussion around lyrical music in games and its use is something you might be able to get a lot out of, especially because of the deep earnestness of force's songs.
Here is an idea: try playing one of the Sonic games in a different language, like spanish, german or french. It could maybe bring a topic about the nature of dubs. About how they started, how they are nowadays, why some people prefer foreign language dubs, more than the ones that they can understand.
The idea came from when I replayed Yakuza and Judgment games in English and ended up really enjoying them. The interesting part is that I ended up being more attached to some of the characters more when I played it in Japanese (like Namba, Zhao, Yagami and Tomizawa). Though the legacy characters took more time to get used to Kiryu, Majima, Saejima and Daigo.
I think it's interesting with how just changing the language felt like a completely new experience.
I can always free up my timelost for your videos, Papa Tehsnakerer
Paid mods really aren't that bad, though it depends. Paradox Interactive notably licensed their game engine out to talented modders to allow them to fully realize their own vision without the constraints of regular modding, although they sadly gave up on it after both East vs West and Magna Mundi were shoddily put together.
Also, registration for online play was already a thing in the 90s and (very) early 2000s on PC
I like the idea for at least one of the boost games to play the mobile version, preferably Unleashed. It could lead to an interesting discussion about how much value companies see in certain platforms, or lack thereof. Just the first thing that came to mind
This dinner is gonna taste extra delicious. Thanks for the upload Snakeman.
Edit: Holy shit I did not expect Breen to appear in this video lol. God bless that man. Keep making movies Neil!
welcome back! loved your view on all this
Probably my favorite video i watched this year
How to play Sonic Unleashed wrong feels like a relatively simple one, at least for Daytime. Don't boost. Does the game work without it's central gimmick or does it lean on it so much as a crutch, especially with the extremely difficult bonus and DLC levels which are built to not be played that way but demand you boost constantly to get an S-rank
You mentioned the frustration that comes from games that won't let you jump, restricting the feeling of freedom and unintentional level breaking. Which reminds me of a dev story I heard about the Blade II movie tie in game. (I heard this like over a decade ago and could just be an urban legend, but it's too hilarious and on brand for how chaotic game dev can be to not talk about.)
In the final product, Blade can only jump as like a dodge move or in contextual situations. Supposedly during development, you could jump freely for platforming. BUT, for some reason letting Blade jump around completely caused problems with the rest of the code resulting in the game being super buggy. Everyone was tearing their hair out trying to figure out what the hell was going on before finally settling on cutting the ability to jump. They then did an evaluation how many sections had to be redone or cut to adjust for the jump removal, only to find...
That there was only one section.
Truly embodying the spirit of trying to iceskate uphill, it's something I think about whenever thinking about jumping in games.
Also loving the video so far! I was also the right age for Sonic Adventure to the point where I felt not having a Dreamcast was one of the worst things ever and that I would never experience cool stuff like this and Soul Calibur. Hearing you explain the absolute shitshow that is the accessibility of playing the "best" version of SA hilariously makes me feel like child me was right all along.
sonic colors but you play it with no color
Gotta give you huge credit for the Retsupurae reference.
2:00:45
small correction, the remake is being built on Godot, not Unity
Another 2 hour video of a game I've never played? Hell yeah
sonic generations but you start at the lowest possible graphics and up them any time you get to a new generation
Amazing video!! I missed the first part so i'll have to go watch that now :D
another great video from snakey talking about a topic i love
For Sonic Unleashed: Play the fight-levels as fast as possible and try to kill all enemies in the speed-levels.
I don't know how much intentional speedrunning is possible in the night-levels, but I think there are some very interesting things to say about enemies, their role (more obstacles than fights), and their placement in the day-levels.
2:01:59 "I do not know how far off the boost era video will be, but it will be someday" I can't be the only one who heard "it will be Sunday" like you're asking for help and revealing it's gonna be out in 2 days.
Sonic Adventure was my one and only sonic game, played it a lot on my Dreamcast growing up along with Rayman and Tomb Raider. None of the others I've tried really feel the same, and now I want to replay it!
play rush without boosting, and discuss how dimps has been secretly responsible for the direction the series has went and how innovation isnt always made in ways or by the people you expect IE rush inventing boost mechanics or that time they gave sonic a wind blade kick in lost world which would be adapted as one of sonics many moves in frontiers
This was fantastic, as always. Really enjoyed all the gimmicks here, and the freeform discussions! One of my favorite things about the Sonic community (frustrating as it often can be) is how, for as many consensus pitfalls as we often fall into, there's always people talking about things in a way that make me rethink my own perceptions on these games.
I enjoy (different from liking) Sonic Heroes, but every person who talks about it seems to say it’s bad or, paradoxically, overrated. But despite it, one thing never changes: I refuse to complete it. Needing to play through effectively the same stage 6 times but with wacky changes to gameplay that, besides the 2 times you play as the Chaotix I intentionally left out, are the same throughout the three other teams.
So I have two suggestions.
1. Sonic Colors, but played until Super Sonic is unlocked. The lengths some people go to “complete” a game is often times ludicrous, and while Colors isn’t the worst to complete, it’s perhaps the most mundane and out-of-the-way.
2. On the topic of rankings, playing each stage in any game until you get the best ranking. Just a nice jumping point to possibly go further into a small part of these games since SA2.
Legitimately enjoyed watching this video. Great work!
in 2003ish ive watched my older bro play the original on dreamcast and ive played it a bit myself, although i was scared of losing control of the quick characters and falling off a platform. in 2013ish ive replayed the dx version on steam. i could barely pin point whats different. from childhood i think i remember specifically us kids struggling and joking about the collision errors and the wonky camera. if anything, newer versions have improved collisions? idk
Who is dismissing indie games as "gay depression" I thought people liked indie games what’s the context?
It's not the all encompassing thing, but in a lot of "games are dead" circles and vids they tend to just dismiss indies as games about queerness or depression. Whether it's genuine ignorance or they need to disregard them to hold onto their misery I don't know. I think when they're bashing AAA games they don't really want there to be an alternative cause they wanna complain.
It's a stupid view that only a select group hold. Most people know indie is far more varied than that.
Can’t wait for your retrospective on Yakuza 7.
Well that was an interesting video. Gave me a lot to think about. Mostly about how I stumbled across the Sonic Wiki when I was 11 and that's how I learnt the dark secrets of Archie's Sonic comic.
Sonic unleashed was released across two console generations, Colours, Generations, and Lost World have handheld versions, so you'll some material to work with.
I played 06 as a kid and somehow beat it. It was an alright buggy game. Personally, I'm more interested in Project 06. That fan remake, while not jank, helps us see the game Sega wanted to make, but lacked tye time to.
Now this is in no way to discredit the section, and I do love the topic and discussion that came from the direction you chose, but I think it's very funny that your way to 'Play' Sonic the Hedgehog 2006 was to, as far as the video suggests, not play it at all. I can't help but pat you on the back for that, assuming it was intentional.
Also I suppose for my own suggestion for a gimmick of play for the Sonic series (that sounds too natural nowadays, ugh) I'd suggest having one of the games (likely either Colors, Generations, or Lost World) be a coverage of their handheld versions released around the same time, as those games end up sparking a theme about how games, Sonic or otherwise, can turn the same ideas into diverting directions through multiple factors in their developments.
Oh hey I have an idea for a way to play one of the boost games actually. You could try playing one *without* boosting, and lead that into a discussion about attention spans or game length.
I rented Sonic 06 as an out of touch 16 year old and, as somebody who hadn't played a Sonic game since Sonic 3 and knuckles I just assumed I didn't get it. I played like maybe three or four levels and just put it down. Coming back after all of the discourse I realize I probably just didn't get it.