I was thinking on buying a brand new Wrangler and I am glad I did thorough research on 3.6 L pentastar engines.Them Jeeps cost way too much to begin with to have such big issues, and I understand fan following, etc. but I ain't a masochist to enjoy the pain on a regular basis with engin issues.
I have the transversed type Engine in my Dodge Grand caravan 3.6 VVT and I have 94,850 miles on it and no ticking. After looking at this video, I decided to go start mine up and let it run for a while to see if there is a ticking, but nothing just smooth running. I change my Oil every 5,500 miles with fully synthetic Oil also change my Transmission fluid every 47,000 Miles. I guess I'm good to go. It's very cheap to put very good Oil in both you Engine and Transmission, then having to replace an Engine or Transmission.
The 4.0 wasn't perfect, and I'm not even sure superior applies. Great for the vehicles it was in, sure. Good torque at low RPM, sure. I'm also not sure you could get it to pass modern emissions standards, which is a reality-level problem for manufacturers.
Did the same job on our 2015 Jeep Wrangler with 75K a couple years ago. I didn't take the cams off as they weren't damaged, I simply loosened the journals and gently lifted the cam at the front of the head to get to those rocker followers. My advise to anyone who has to do this is to do both sides, replacing at least all of the rocker followers. Additionally if you're into the engine that far, take the lower intake plenum off and replace the crappy oil cooler with an all metal one such as the Dorman all aluminum oil cooler. These were three separate jobs that I had to do when I could have done it all at once. HIndsight... The engine now has 115K and runs great. Above all, change the oil regularly. I change ours in 5K increments and I use Penzoil Platinum high mileage.
I am at 135k and developed the tick about 3k ago. Looking to replace the rockers and hope it'll do. Misfire on 3 so hoping that's where it'll be to save lots of time. 21 ram 1500 3.6L
Mine only has 48k and needed newrockers , lifters and exost cam!!!! I drive alot of short trips , so alot of dry starts from the poor oil filter design
have a 14 TC started hearing ticking and took it right away. bad rocker. and for the guy that says change your oil, i have a 3rd party warranty on this van and they checked everything to not pay but i am very good on oil changes before needed and i had all of them done at dealership so there was no question on my part. they ended up doing it but not liking it! nice vid showing the problem. now if you could figure out my 4.3 ticking id be happy!
Very good explanation and video. I have a 2015 Journey that just rolled 100k KM. I bought it at 81k. I do my oil changes every 8000km on the dot. My oil filter housing isn’t even sweating either. I commute all highway miles with it, so it lives a pretty easy live cruising along at 2000rpm.
170K on my wife's Caravan and no rockers or oil filter housing yet. 10W-30 synthetic oil changes every 5K and the fact that she doesn't put it into the high RPM range helps I suppose. I've seen them go at 70Kish and some last to over 250K. I suppose if hers doesn't start the cold morning squeak before 200K, I'll probably yank the valve covers and intake and do the oil filter housing and a set of rockers then just as a preventative.
My 2012 wrangler was bought new and has 118,000 plus miles with numerous high RPM pulls with ZERO problems other than having the defective head replaced around the 24,000-mile mark. I've always ran a quality full synthetic brand oil with once a year oil changes providing, I didn't go over 10,000 miles. I do an oil filter change every 6 months and let it ride. I believe most problems are people not doing proper routine maintenance.
@@patricksquires77 I actually work a techline helping techs fix vehicles like these and I see them weekly fail at 70K and some fail at near or just over 200K. Never seen any last much over 200K though. Have seen the timing chains and the rest of the engine go over 300K. My opinion is they're good engines. Beats the problems some others have.
@2:50 why are these rockers failing ? poor heat treatment of roller bearings ? That same cam lobe, I would not worry about the damage on the edges of the lobe. That never rides the cam anyway . I just bought a 15 durango with 67,000 fingers crossed. I think a revised rocker was implemented in the 16 and newer.
my 2018 journey is aight at about 100k miles. i use synthetic with lucas oil synthetic safe oil additive. and i try not to let it idle long. when i have to idle it ill blip the gas every now and again to help oil get to all the components.
The Pentastar is a good engine, 5w20 Pennzoil or Valvoline Synthetic, keep the oil changed and watch out long periods of Idling same as the 5.7 Hemi dont go over 5000 miles on an oil change
I agree overall these are good engines. I have a good number of customers sporting this engine in different vehicles. Few things go wrong with them. The rocker arm issue almost seems random on who it will affect. This Jeep only had 75k on it and I know they changed their oil religiously. I did a Caravan recently and it had around 150k before failure. I don't think all these engines are guaranteed to fail but it's definitely something to be aware of.
@@ValleyMobileAutomotive could be a fluke or its possible the Jeep gets rev'd out twice as much as the mini van. Shorter oil change interval for the jeeper?
What’s strange is that this particular pentastar was well maintained judging from the absents of sludge. I thought this issue was totally resolved with the Gen 3 Pentastar from 2016 on.
Or that cylinder head has been off in the past and this is warranty work on a remanufactured head or engine. Might be a Jiffy Lube we forgot to put oil back in special. Nobody really knows the history behind any of these engines in these videos.
An unfortunate flaw, otherwise the engine is actually quite good despite some of it's other weaknesses (plastic fuel rail and plastic oil cooler to name a few.) I think the secret to this issue is to not cheap out on the oil. Go with a high end synthetic (these engines came out of the factory with a Penzoil blend) and a slightly heavier weight. This will reduce the amount of friction on the rockers and should extend the life of them. Also, if you notice the ticking, just spend the money to replace the rocker(s) if you actually plan on keeping the vehicle. It's not the hardest job in the world, unless you get really unlucky and it ends up being a rocker close to the timing chain which I think you would have to remove the main timing cover for access to the tensioner.
I have the first gen 2011 penastar in a VW Routan always used 10w30 since it was new And it still sounds like it's new the thinner oils were made for better gas mileage not engine protection my wife is hard on that van so i did what makes sense to me After 6 to 8 thousand miles the oil is still right where I filled it to
this is the exact same issue chyrsler had on the 5.7 hemi engine a few years ago. lots of camshafts ruined by roller bearings. that was a very expenisve repair once the roller bearing completely failed. why isnt this a recall ? why has chrysler once again produced a faulty engine ? the big 3 are a disaster. has the roller rocker been redesigned - if so what year vehicle got the improved design ?
Glad that in 2018 I bought a Ridgeline instead of the Durango I was considering. The Dodge salesman was a high pressure jerk and the Honda guy more laid back.
Unfortunately nothing can prevent this. The parts used during manufacturing cannot handle the load put on them and the needle bearings fail. While this is affecting a large number of vehicles there is still the majority not affected.
1% doesn’t seem like much if you don’t understand basic arithmetic. 1% of 1million engines? It’s far more than 1% hence the class action against Chrysler regarding the shite 3.6lt valve train issues. I have a JT and the Pentastar is a shite engine with a cheap valve train.
My 2014 T&C with 135,000 miles and regular maintenance at dealership had the Cylinder Head replaced last month. $3000+ repair. Surprise! Minivan is back in shop same problem. P0302 code. Another $3000+ fix. Only $10,000 in warranty work since new. First time code P0302. Second time P0306.
Very informative… Thanks, but I don’t think you talked about what causes this problem… Is it a design flaw? What can be done to prevent it from happening in the first place?
Currently at 41K on a 2020 JLU and all is running well. I see these videos ( this was an excellent video by the way .. best I have seen ) ... and I would like to know if there is something I can do now to bulletproof / prevent / get ahead of hitting this in the next 30K potentially ? Dorman has a few related products to replace the weaker composite parts. Are there any other products / procedures you would recommend ahead of the issues becoming noticeable or something failing?
Oil is never thinner than the largest number. 0w stands for winter not weight. 0w20 at operating temp is still 20 weight. Oils weight are designed to be 20weight At 212F. 0winter-20 just resists way over thickening at cold temps or room temp better than a 5winter-20 would.
What about a popping noise at idle, sounds more like a pop than a tick, comes from somewhere around the firewall area under the hood in the engine bay. Have you ever heard that , ours has this odd noise.
Believe it or not. Just had the cylinder head replaced for the THIRD time on my 2014 Town & Country with 154,000 miles!!! My understanding is the 2016 Pentastar was modified and doesn’t have the problem. Is it possible to install a 2016 engine in a 2014 minivan. My 2014 has the Mopar lifetime maximum warranty. ( no longer available)
Owned a 2015 dodge journey with the 3.6 penastar. 10W40 Castrol, is best to use with the engine. The lighter weight oil breaks down to quickly and causes lifter failure/rocker failure and timing chain stretch. 10W40 Castrol. is just right to keep the lobs from burning up and the chain from stretching. The vehicle I owned in question, made 171,877
@Travis Gill I agree, it's not much. Probably would have went farther if a wreck didn't total it lol. I'm content to trade to a new vehicle if I get 200K/more or five years.
@@blecgaming9069 trust me man no hating from me... I work on cars for a living and its sad to see so many terrible designs... I have the old 4.0 straight 6 in my Jeep..270,000 and its never been into for repairs...well yet lol
@Travis Gill I gotcha, I also have a older dodge with the 5.9 magnums V8. Super tough engine as it's 15K away from 300K , originally engine and transmission shockingly lol
I have watched a few of this videos but not many people talk about the Hydraulic Valve lifters being also a problem if they become soft it leaves the rocker to move around causing ticking also.
I have a 14 Grand Cherokee 3.6 with 165k on it and it runs like a top. Only issue I have ever had was the oil cooler. I run high mi full synthetic oil FROM WALMART every 5000 miles.
Seems like the oil cooler, rocker ticking both fail between 75k - 125k. I was interested in a Ram with this engine but i stopped looking at it.. im not dealing with this. Chrysler never changed.
2012 bought a new 200 with this engine. 11 years later put on only 58 thousand miles, and still looks new. Changed oil evet 3, to 5000 miles with synthetic oil.Engine check light came on and got misfire code. Took to dealership and told me I need to replacement left cylinder head. 4000$ repair. Did some research and found that this is another big problem with this engine. If right cylinder should go bad, I will call the junk yard to pick it up.
@@ValleyMobileAutomotive valve seats, chrysler put out a TSB on this problem. They extended warranty from date of purchase 10 years or 150 thousand miles. Have only 58 thousand miles but 10 year ran out 2022. I think chrysler should cover some of the cost even thow the warranty ran out.
It has been said that the metal used in jeeps doesn't have a good layer of hardness on the cams and other components.....I would avoid jeeps due to the aluminum wiring harnesses
I've got a 2015 2 dr wrangler. Spends more time parked inside than outside. Only has 12000 kms on it. (about 7300 miles) I've been changing the synthetic oil once a yr with sometimes less than a 1000 kms. It runs fine but the posts are freaking me out, like maybe I should sell it! My daily driver is a 99 astro in great condit. 137000 kms.
I had a 2012 Rubicon and sold it with 99500 miles. The thought of that type of repair convinced me to sell it. I don't think I will buy a jeep or a Chrysler product ever again.
for the rollers on the rocker assembly to be so loose that the rollers sink in past the frame the bearings have to just about be gone, therefor you must assume that all of the metal from those hardened roller bearings os currently migrating through your oil galleries and has no doubt been caught between other moving parts causing other damage and creating more metal etc, etc, this is just poor quality.
Had my 2018 Durango die at 131,000 miles. The dealer said the motor was toast and wanted $12,500+ for a new one installed. I bought a new 2021 3.6L crate motor from the dealer and had a friend install it, cost $8k+ to install it including the price of the motor. A new car should last longer than 130,000 miles! I have 350,000+ on my Coyote F150 and it still runs like the day I bought it new. This will be my LAST Dodge product.
@@ValleyMobileAutomotive The new 2021 Pentastar I installed runs way stronger than the original one that died but I have had several other problems with this vehicle as well, the UConnect dash control unit died at 55,000 miles and I have replaced 3 starter motors in 180,000 miles to the tune of $1,200 each to have the dealer install them, as a matter of fact it's parked on my driveway right now needing a new starter! I loathe the start stop system on this vehicle and there is no way to permanently turn it off without major hassle. Hell, they charged me almost $1,000 just to diagnose the motor being dead because they had to remove the intake manifold to check the compression! It sucks because I love every other aspect of the vehicle, especially the way it looks.
If the damage to the camshaft is confined to the area where the frame of the failed rocker arm made contact, and not to the area where the roller on the new rocker arm will make contact, would you still recommend replacing the camshaft?
I would recommend replacement. There is a reason the engineers left the cam lobes wider than the actual contact area. Also the roller stops rolling so the lobe will no longer have the correct shape. You may be able to keep it and have it run fine but for how long?
Yes. Yes it is. This has been a problem for years and never addressed by Chrysler/Daimler/Fiat/Stellantis or whomever owns them today. Same as GM's AFM. Tens of thousands of 5.3 engines died way too soon because it, and GM kept pooping them out and had no care in the world. All Chrysler has to do is put "that much" more effort into quality and they'd have a decent vehicle. But they never had, and never will. So, I only buy Toyota products now. The only time I see the mechanic is for oil changes, tires and brakes.
@@matt9c1 lol just pulling your leg. Toyota is undeniably one of those most reliable vehicle manufacturers. My dream car is a AE86 and I know I’ll get one someday cause they’ll still be on the road running ;) but the pentastar 3.6 are reasonably reliable compared to other v6s on the market.
Just had both sides done on my 2014 jeep GC with 90,000 miles on it. Total cost was $4900. all new cams rockers and lifters. This was a real bitter pill to swallow. Going with Toyota next car.
You can say what you want, I'm running not walking away from this Pentastar 3.6 garbage. My 99 Jeep cherokee with 4.0L 6 cyl has 341,000 miles and the engine has never been open up. My 2015 wrangler has 75k and its ticking and I baby all my vehicles.
I have not one, but two 3.6L Pentastars ... 2015 Jeep Wrangler JKU and 2015 Jeep Grand Cherokee WK2 ... the Wrangler has 110k miles, the Grand Cherokee has 85k miles ... both of them are in great shape. Why? Because if you do regular maintenance on them, change oil every 5k miles, etc... you won't run into these issues.
It's hard to tell what the cam looks like until you pull it apart but if it's ticking most likely there is substantial wear on the lobe already. I would be cautious about that price though. It seems too low. Labor alone is 5.5 hours. I would get a second quote from another shop and ask both shops what brand of parts they are using and what their shop's hourly rate is. I would recommend only using genuine Mopar or Melling parts 👍
Dealership said my head gasket had a micro leak into cylinder 3. They replaced the spark plug and the coil before doing the head gasket job had to film it to get Chrysler to warranty it. 2018 Pacifica.
It might misfire but it might not show any symptoms other than a tick. It has 2 intake and 2 exhaust valves per Cylinder. If one no longer opens properly it still has the other. The biggest risk I see is the potential for the rocker arm to kick out and or jam under the camshaft. Depending on how that happens it can crack the head or leave a valve open colliding with the piston head. Not to mention the metal debris it's creating 😕
This was incredibly informative. I just got told that my 2012 VW Routan has pretty much this same issue. It has 146k miles. Their recommendation was replacing valve lifters, timing chain, and catalytic converter totaling $11k. I’m at a loss. Obviously I’m not going to put that much into my van. Does this seem right?
I got a 2013 jeep wrangler with a 3.6 it now has 150,000 miles on it bought it brand new in 2013. It has ticked since the day I bought it. This is a solution in search of a problem.
Are there aftermarket rockers/lifters that you recommend? Are there upgraded/updated oem rockers/lifters? Where should I order from. Also, if replacing a camshaft, just go OEM?
The OEM rockers have been updated. If at all possible I would stick with OEM parts. Melling is also a good aftermarket brand if the OEM parts are out of stock.
I would think that a roller rocker with needle bearings would be able to survive on little or no oil unlike regular plain bearings that require constant oil and could be wiped out by dry starts. Seems like something else is in play here........
Took. My 3.6 Pacifica 2019 making ticking. They said they replaced four rockers arms and I got it back. It's still ticking. I took pictures before I took it in and did video. I get it back and they never took the valve covers off but they told me they replaced four rockers. I got the service manager and said how'd you do it without taking the valve covers off now? It's been in the shop for a week and they said they'll make it right. Waiting on parts for a week. Only 54k on my Pacifica they lied. They cheated the company. They cheated me now. I called her BS and relying on them to fix it and this is a dealer where I bought my van at brand new
It can be a manufacturing defect and a metallurgical failure because of it. If you're replacing it with another one that can fail because of a flaw you are simply going to have to keep doing it. Unfortunately you can't visually inspect the needle bearing in the rocker after manufacturing, you'd need to do it before and we're talking thousands of them.
I have the older chrysler 3.3L engine in an 09 caravan that is rusting....engine has 180,000 and burns about .75 quarts of oil every 5 miles......Never has a problem except I needed to change the instake gasket.....the thing is bullet proof. I need a new car and simply don't know what to get.....many large cars like SUVs are going to turbo......they run hot....many cars use plastic oil housings.....Kia/Hyundai 3.5/3.8L are know to have excessive oil burning and piston slap......I don't fit into the highlander....I dont want to spend $50K on a car now adays only to spend $5000 on engine work like this. When are these car makers going to get it right?
I am in the class car hobby. I have pulled apart many engines that have sat for years and they still had oil in and on the rockers, lifters, and journals. Dry start argument for the 3.6 Mopar is nonsense. No such thing in any car that sits overnight or while you're on vacation. What's the problem, then? Poor design and materials. The overhead cam(s) design goes back a long way with Fiat, Triumph, Jaguar, etc. This should not be a problem with modern engines. Again, poor design and materials!
To me, that looks like an over reaction changing ALL the rockers and the cam, too. I'd closely inspect ALL the rockers and lifters. If they look/feel good, I'd reinstall them. The actual cam lobe surface where the new rocker roller will actually run on looked fine to me, so I would not have replaced the cam, BUT I would have DEFINITELY replaced the lifter acting on that failed rocker. If you're in a toot to spend some money, I WOULD replace the oil cooler, while it's all torn down to that point, because they are known to start leaking starting at around that mileage, and beside it might be contaminated with metal grinding dust from failed rocker.
I wouldn't want to do this job again if another rocker fails in the future. You can watch the whole repair video. It's a pain in the tootie! ua-cam.com/video/9qLPDv7kgvI/v-deo.html
"that looks like an over reaction changing ALL the rockers and the cam, too" I hope you don't work on cars for a living. You just rip people off by doing a job multiple times.
I can remember the hype years ago with the introduction of this Pentastar engine. It was amazing.... Really. As usual typical Chrysler junk. Just save all the hassle and get a Honda or Toyota !
What's interesting is I did this on a Grand Caravan with almost 200k before rocker failure. Not every vehicle will have this issue but enough of them are failing to make people aware. If your engine starts ticking get it looked at. It could be the difference between changing a rocker or changing the engine.
Yeah but 2012 wrangler 3.6 is junk and poor design CELs cheap oil cooler assembly dual stage oil pump. Even with all the maintenance. I regret buying a jeep
My 2020 3.6 with 21,000 miles. 3 oil changes using Mobile 1 full synthetic has this. It's a manufacturing issue. Hence why you don't find the same issues with a Toyota V6.
Well considering they literally made millions upon millions of these engines. Mine has 185K on it and still runs great. I get 33 mpg or better on a 4k lb car.
Problem is dry starts. Baxter makes an oil fill adapter with spin on filter that eliminates dry starts
I was thinking on buying a brand new Wrangler and I am glad I did thorough research on 3.6 L pentastar engines.Them Jeeps cost way too much to begin with to have such big issues, and I understand fan following, etc. but I ain't a masochist to enjoy the pain on a regular basis with engin issues.
I just replaced my rockers on engine with 120k. Only one. Bad rocker on each side, but i replace all. Nice not having to remove the cams.
I have the transversed type Engine in my Dodge Grand caravan 3.6 VVT and I have 94,850 miles on it and no ticking.
After looking at this video, I decided to go start mine up and let it run for a while to see if there is a ticking, but nothing just smooth running.
I change my Oil every 5,500 miles with fully synthetic Oil also change my Transmission fluid every 47,000 Miles.
I guess I'm good to go. It's very cheap to put very good Oil in both you Engine and Transmission, then having to replace an Engine or Transmission.
sell it. the transmissions are known for terrible transmission issues.
The 4.0L inline six was far superior. And a lot easier to work on if needed.
Absolutely the 4.0 jeep and 4.9 straight 6 by ford till years ago
The 4.0 wasn't perfect, and I'm not even sure superior applies. Great for the vehicles it was in, sure. Good torque at low RPM, sure.
I'm also not sure you could get it to pass modern emissions standards, which is a reality-level problem for manufacturers.
The 4.0 was simple but had a terrible design from the horse power perspective
Did the same job on our 2015 Jeep Wrangler with 75K a couple years ago. I didn't take the cams off as they weren't damaged, I simply loosened the journals and gently lifted the cam at the front of the head to get to those rocker followers. My advise to anyone who has to do this is to do both sides, replacing at least all of the rocker followers. Additionally if you're into the engine that far, take the lower intake plenum off and replace the crappy oil cooler with an all metal one such as the Dorman all aluminum oil cooler. These were three separate jobs that I had to do when I could have done it all at once. HIndsight... The engine now has 115K and runs great. Above all, change the oil regularly. I change ours in 5K increments and I use Penzoil Platinum high mileage.
Good advice! I agree 👍
@@ValleyMobileAutomotive 2023 any good??
I am at 135k and developed the tick about 3k ago. Looking to replace the rockers and hope it'll do. Misfire on 3 so hoping that's where it'll be to save lots of time. 21 ram 1500 3.6L
Flawed but I really like the Pentastar. Very powerful for what it is.
Use good oil, change every 5000mi.
Mine only has 48k and needed newrockers , lifters and exost cam!!!! I drive alot of short trips , so alot of dry starts from the poor oil filter design
have a 14 TC started hearing ticking and took it right away. bad rocker. and for the guy that says change your oil, i have a 3rd party warranty on this van and they checked everything to not pay but i am very good on oil changes before needed and i had all of them done at dealership so there was no question on my part. they ended up doing it but not liking it! nice vid showing the problem. now if you could figure out my 4.3 ticking id be happy!
Very good explanation and video. I have a 2015 Journey that just rolled 100k KM. I bought it at 81k. I do my oil changes every 8000km on the dot. My oil filter housing isn’t even sweating either. I commute all highway miles with it, so it lives a pretty easy live cruising along at 2000rpm.
Recommend you reduce it to 3-5k intervals
I have 75k miles, my dad had 200k on a jeep. I think it is just luck cus the rockers are made by melling, not chrysler
Very helpful! My 2019 Ram has 48,000. I'll keep an ear out for that later on.
170K on my wife's Caravan and no rockers or oil filter housing yet. 10W-30 synthetic oil changes every 5K and the fact that she doesn't put it into the high RPM range helps I suppose. I've seen them go at 70Kish and some last to over 250K. I suppose if hers doesn't start the cold morning squeak before 200K, I'll probably yank the valve covers and intake and do the oil filter housing and a set of rockers then just as a preventative.
My 2012 wrangler was bought new and has 118,000 plus miles with numerous high RPM pulls with ZERO problems other than having the defective head replaced around the 24,000-mile mark. I've always ran a quality full synthetic brand oil with once a year oil changes providing, I didn't go over 10,000 miles. I do an oil filter change every 6 months and let it ride. I believe most problems are people not doing proper routine maintenance.
130k 2012 T&C Full Mobil Synthetic every 3k and now have the tik and it was never run hard. 🤷♂️
@@patricksquires77 189K so far and no tick yet. Strange.
@@greggc8088 Not strange - Millions made - Small percentage fail. You are the majority.
@@patricksquires77 I actually work a techline helping techs fix vehicles like these and I see them weekly fail at 70K and some fail at near or just over 200K. Never seen any last much over 200K though. Have seen the timing chains and the rest of the engine go over 300K. My opinion is they're good engines. Beats the problems some others have.
@2:50 why are these rockers failing ? poor heat treatment of roller bearings ? That same cam lobe, I would not worry about the damage on the edges of the lobe. That never rides the cam anyway . I just bought a 15 durango with 67,000 fingers crossed. I think a revised rocker was implemented in the 16 and newer.
The issue was addressed in the second gen of the 3.6 that came out in 2016 for the 2017+ models...
How did they correct the defect?
@@whythatsfantastic4602 did you ever find the answer?
my 2018 journey is aight at about 100k miles. i use synthetic with lucas oil synthetic safe oil additive. and i try not to let it idle long. when i have to idle it ill blip the gas every now and again to help oil get to all the components.
The Pentastar is a good engine, 5w20 Pennzoil or Valvoline Synthetic, keep the oil changed and watch out long periods of Idling same as the 5.7 Hemi dont go over 5000 miles on an oil change
I agree overall these are good engines. I have a good number of customers sporting this engine in different vehicles. Few things go wrong with them. The rocker arm issue almost seems random on who it will affect. This Jeep only had 75k on it and I know they changed their oil religiously. I did a Caravan recently and it had around 150k before failure. I don't think all these engines are guaranteed to fail but it's definitely something to be aware of.
@@ValleyMobileAutomotive could be a fluke or its possible the Jeep gets rev'd out twice as much as the mini van. Shorter oil change interval for the jeeper?
Is this issue related on how they designed the oil system, where all the oil drains back down because the filter is on top of engine?
What’s strange is that this particular pentastar was well maintained judging from the absents of sludge. I thought this issue was totally resolved with the Gen 3 Pentastar from 2016 on.
I haven't seen a single Gen 3 Pentastar with the rocker failure issue.
Or that cylinder head has been off in the past and this is warranty work on a remanufactured head or engine. Might be a Jiffy Lube we forgot to put oil back in special. Nobody really knows the history behind any of these engines in these videos.
An unfortunate flaw, otherwise the engine is actually quite good despite some of it's other weaknesses (plastic fuel rail and plastic oil cooler to name a few.)
I think the secret to this issue is to not cheap out on the oil. Go with a high end synthetic (these engines came out of the factory with a Penzoil blend) and a slightly heavier weight. This will reduce the amount of friction on the rockers and should extend the life of them.
Also, if you notice the ticking, just spend the money to replace the rocker(s) if you actually plan on keeping the vehicle. It's not the hardest job in the world, unless you get really unlucky and it ends up being a rocker close to the timing chain which I think you would have to remove the main timing cover for access to the tensioner.
Hello, What kind of high-end synthetic oil do you recommend? My dealer used 5W20, is that good? Thank you.
I have the first gen 2011 penastar in a VW Routan always used 10w30 since it was new
And it still sounds like it's new the thinner oils were made for better gas mileage not engine protection my wife is hard on that van so i did what makes sense to me
After 6 to 8 thousand miles the oil is still right where I filled it to
my 2014 300 has 155k on it use full synth no issues
I've had 4 cars with that engine, and never had one problem with it.
u have been very lucky. and hope to god u don't have the trash 62TE transmission.
Good for you? Full Synthetic Mobil oil every 3k and never run hard and have the tik at 130k. 🤷♂️
this is the exact same issue chyrsler had on the 5.7 hemi engine a few years ago. lots of camshafts ruined by roller bearings. that was a very expenisve repair once the roller bearing completely failed. why isnt this a recall ? why has chrysler once again produced a faulty engine ? the big 3 are a disaster. has the roller rocker been redesigned - if so what year vehicle got the improved design ?
My wrangler makes the same rattle noise no codes, what could be the problem? We replaced the rocker arms and lifters (none were bad) what's next?
The new 3rd Gen Pentastar starting in '18 and in the new Pacificas wont have this issue its been resolved..
How?
@@whythatsfantastic4602 The top end valve train has been redesigned and a few bugs ironed out
Glad that in 2018 I bought a Ridgeline instead of the Durango I was considering. The Dodge salesman was a high pressure jerk and the Honda guy more laid back.
Why does the auto makers recommend 15k mile oil changes ? The oil has to be filthy by then ! Will 5k oil changes prevent this ?
15k oil changes is meant to create auto sales for dealership in 6 years from the time the new vehicle was bought
@@lrobie123Their only on hook for warrantay. Think like Eric Cartman.
I wish the Pentastar had aluminum valve covers vs the cheap plastic crap.
Would adding a little ZDDP to the oil...maybe just like 1 cup of diesel oil, prevent this? Would that little amount cause too much damage to the cats?
Unfortunately nothing can prevent this. The parts used during manufacturing cannot handle the load put on them and the needle bearings fail. While this is affecting a large number of vehicles there is still the majority not affected.
Not "common" affects less than 1% of 3.6 engines.
1% doesn’t seem like much if you don’t understand basic arithmetic. 1% of 1million engines? It’s far more than 1% hence the class action against Chrysler regarding the shite 3.6lt valve train issues. I have a JT and the Pentastar is a shite engine with a cheap valve train.
My 2014 T&C with 135,000 miles and regular maintenance at dealership had the Cylinder Head replaced last month. $3000+ repair.
Surprise! Minivan is back in shop same problem. P0302 code. Another $3000+ fix. Only $10,000 in warranty work since new.
First time code P0302. Second time P0306.
Do you think a thicker oil would help?
I've seen a few JL wranglers with over 100k and they don't seem to have this problem anymore.
Very informative… Thanks, but I don’t think you talked about what causes this problem… Is it a design flaw? What can be done to prevent it from happening in the first place?
Currently at 41K on a 2020 JLU and all is running well. I see these videos ( this was an excellent video by the way .. best I have seen ) ... and I would like to know if there is something I can do now to bulletproof / prevent / get ahead of hitting this in the next 30K potentially ? Dorman has a few related products to replace the weaker composite parts. Are there any other products / procedures you would recommend ahead of the issues becoming noticeable or something failing?
Lost my intake cams. Butnot till 140. I never used 0 weight oil always used 10 weight mobile 1.
Oil is never thinner than the largest number. 0w stands for winter not weight. 0w20 at operating temp is still 20 weight. Oils weight are designed to be 20weight At 212F. 0winter-20 just resists way over thickening at cold temps or room temp better than a 5winter-20 would.
What about a popping noise at idle, sounds more like a pop than a tick, comes from somewhere around the firewall area under the hood in the engine bay. Have you ever heard that , ours has this odd noise.
My mother in laws 2021 grand Cherokee L had cam/lifer failure at 12,000 miles.....
Believe it or not. Just had the cylinder head replaced for the THIRD time on my 2014 Town & Country with 154,000 miles!!! My understanding is the 2016 Pentastar was modified and doesn’t have the problem. Is it possible to install a 2016 engine in a 2014 minivan.
My 2014 has the Mopar lifetime maximum warranty. ( no longer available)
Hi. How much shop time would it take to remove and replace a bank of roller bearings? Thx
I heard this only on certain years of the 3.6
@Lauren Hariton This pretty much affects almost all Jeep Dodge in Chrysler's with the same 3.6
Owned a 2015 dodge journey with the 3.6 penastar.
10W40 Castrol, is best to use with the engine. The lighter weight oil breaks down to quickly and causes lifter failure/rocker failure and timing chain stretch.
10W40 Castrol. is just right to keep the lobs from burning up and the chain from stretching.
The vehicle I owned in question, made 171,877
I've got 167,000 on my '12 wrangler. So far so good
You're happy at 171,000..? my god man thats not much at all...
@Travis Gill I agree, it's not much. Probably would have went farther if a wreck didn't total it lol. I'm content to trade to a new vehicle if I get 200K/more or five years.
@@blecgaming9069 trust me man no hating from me... I work on cars for a living and its sad to see so many terrible designs... I have the old 4.0 straight 6 in my Jeep..270,000 and its never been into for repairs...well yet lol
@Travis Gill I gotcha, I also have a older dodge with the 5.9 magnums V8. Super tough engine as it's 15K away from 300K , originally engine and transmission shockingly lol
Great explanation and demonstration! Thanks!!
I have watched a few of this videos but not many people talk about the Hydraulic Valve lifters being also a problem if they become soft it leaves the rocker to move around causing ticking also.
I have a 14 Grand Cherokee 3.6 with 165k on it and it runs like a top. Only issue I have ever had was the oil cooler. I run high mi full synthetic oil FROM WALMART every 5000 miles.
Full Syn Mobil every 3k and never run hard. Have tik at 130k - Wheee
As far as anyone knows this is damage from a local Jiffy oil change service forgetting to put the oil back in.
Seems like the oil cooler, rocker ticking both fail between 75k - 125k. I was interested in a Ram with this engine but i stopped looking at it.. im not dealing with this. Chrysler never changed.
DAMB like my 4-cylinder Focus is reliable, 21.5 years/207k miles, NO issues.
I have 2 of the POS .How much should this repair cost ?
2012 bought a new 200 with this engine. 11 years later put on only 58 thousand miles, and still looks new. Changed oil evet 3, to 5000 miles with synthetic oil.Engine check light came on and got misfire code. Took to dealership and told me I need to replacement left cylinder head. 4000$ repair. Did some research and found that this is another big problem with this engine. If right cylinder should go bad, I will call the junk yard to pick it up.
Ah man that's a bummer! Did they give an explanation like a burnt valve?
@@ValleyMobileAutomotive valve seats, chrysler put out a TSB on this problem. They extended warranty from date of purchase 10 years or 150 thousand miles. Have only 58 thousand miles but 10 year ran out 2022. I think chrysler should cover some of the cost even thow the warranty ran out.
I never see anyone checking engine oil level- they add fuel and go.
You can't check the oil on them.
It has been said that the metal used in jeeps doesn't have a good layer of hardness on the cams and other components.....I would avoid jeeps due to the aluminum wiring harnesses
I'm currently looking at a '15 Ram with this engine. It is very quiet with 98k miles. Just how expensive of a repair is it ? (non Dealer)
Oil changes at 3-5000 mi with quality oil & filter cover a lot of sins
Full Syn Mobil every 3k and never run hard. Have tik at 130k - Wheee
I've got a 2015 2 dr wrangler. Spends more time parked inside than outside. Only has 12000 kms on it. (about 7300 miles) I've been changing the synthetic oil once a yr with sometimes less than a 1000 kms. It runs fine but the posts are freaking me out, like maybe I should sell it! My daily driver is a 99 astro in great condit. 137000 kms.
I had a 2012 Rubicon and sold it with 99500 miles. The thought of that type of repair convinced me to sell it. I don't think I will buy a jeep or a Chrysler product ever again.
for the rollers on the rocker assembly to be so loose that the rollers sink in past the frame the bearings have to just about be gone, therefor you must assume that all of the metal from those hardened roller bearings os currently migrating through your oil galleries and has no doubt been caught between other moving parts causing other damage and creating more metal etc, etc, this is just poor quality.
How much is the rocker arm?
Had my 2018 Durango die at 131,000 miles. The dealer said the motor was toast and wanted $12,500+ for a new one installed. I bought a new 2021 3.6L crate motor from the dealer and had a friend install it, cost $8k+ to install it including the price of the motor. A new car should last longer than 130,000 miles! I have 350,000+ on my Coyote F150 and it still runs like the day I bought it new. This will be my LAST Dodge product.
@@robertwright1084 It's a shame too because overall I like the 3.6 but you just don't know if you're getting a bad one.
@@ValleyMobileAutomotive The new 2021 Pentastar I installed runs way stronger than the original one that died but I have had several other problems with this vehicle as well, the UConnect dash control unit died at 55,000 miles and I have replaced 3 starter motors in 180,000 miles to the tune of $1,200 each to have the dealer install them, as a matter of fact it's parked on my driveway right now needing a new starter! I loathe the start stop system on this vehicle and there is no way to permanently turn it off without major hassle. Hell, they charged me almost $1,000 just to diagnose the motor being dead because they had to remove the intake manifold to check the compression! It sucks because I love every other aspect of the vehicle, especially the way it looks.
@@robertwright1084 Yeah the Durango looks pretty slick! I hope you have many good miles with your new engine 👍
These Motors are garbage. I've got an f150 with 270k, 3 toyota worth 300k, and two pentastar that are broken. One seized up without warning at 113k.
If the damage to the camshaft is confined to the area where the frame of the failed rocker arm made contact, and not to the area where the roller on the new rocker arm will make contact, would you still recommend replacing the camshaft?
I would recommend replacement. There is a reason the engineers left the cam lobes wider than the actual contact area. Also the roller stops rolling so the lobe will no longer have the correct shape. You may be able to keep it and have it run fine but for how long?
Thank you for your reply. That makes sense. And thanks for your videos in general. They are very helpful. @@ValleyMobileAutomotive
Not a major flaw. Takes 2 hours to change rockers, my first one failed at 150k
Yes. Yes it is.
This has been a problem for years and never addressed by Chrysler/Daimler/Fiat/Stellantis or whomever owns them today. Same as GM's AFM. Tens of thousands of 5.3 engines died way too soon because it, and GM kept pooping them out and had no care in the world.
All Chrysler has to do is put "that much" more effort into quality and they'd have a decent vehicle. But they never had, and never will.
So, I only buy Toyota products now. The only time I see the mechanic is for oil changes, tires and brakes.
@@matt9c1typical Toyota fan boy
@@shdw6662 Shame on me for being smart about my money eh ?
@@matt9c1 lol just pulling your leg. Toyota is undeniably one of those most reliable vehicle manufacturers. My dream car is a AE86 and I know I’ll get one someday cause they’ll still be on the road running ;) but the pentastar 3.6 are reasonably reliable compared to other v6s on the market.
Just had both sides done on my 2014 jeep GC with 90,000 miles on it. Total cost was $4900. all new cams rockers and lifters. This was a real bitter pill to swallow. Going with Toyota next car.
Crikey
Could the issue be coming from the the thin 0w20 oil being used?
And would it be ok to use a 5w30 instead of the 0w20?
I have 2017 dodge grand caravan and I am using 5W-30. I have no issues at all. I change oil every 5 - 6k miles
You can say what you want, I'm running not walking away from this Pentastar 3.6 garbage. My 99 Jeep cherokee with 4.0L 6 cyl has 341,000 miles and the engine has never been open up. My 2015 wrangler has 75k and its ticking and I baby all my vehicles.
I have not one, but two 3.6L Pentastars ... 2015 Jeep Wrangler JKU and 2015 Jeep Grand Cherokee WK2 ... the Wrangler has 110k miles, the Grand Cherokee has 85k miles ... both of them are in great shape. Why? Because if you do regular maintenance on them, change oil every 5k miles, etc... you won't run into these issues.
Design flaw that's it change oil every 2 weeks It won't help
@@robertvelten346 that's your opinion.
I change the cemmis at 40 k and the rocker arm add 50,000 MI and after that I changed the rock arm and the camms 3 more times
So how often does this need to be done? In another 75k miles?
Once it's done with quality parts you shouldn't need to do it again 👍
Just started on my 2016 300 with 107K. I was quoted $575 for parts and labor to replace arms. I am terribly worried about the shaft tho
It's hard to tell what the cam looks like until you pull it apart but if it's ticking most likely there is substantial wear on the lobe already. I would be cautious about that price though. It seems too low. Labor alone is 5.5 hours. I would get a second quote from another shop and ask both shops what brand of parts they are using and what their shop's hourly rate is. I would recommend only using genuine Mopar or Melling parts 👍
Are there any aftermarket solutions or do you have to put OEM parts back in and wait for them to fail again?
The new OEM parts are updated and more robust. If you decide to use aftermarket parts I would use a well known good quality brand.
Hey was there loss of power ?
My 3rd cylinder keeps misfiring any info will be appreciated
Dealership said my head gasket had a micro leak into cylinder 3. They replaced the spark plug and the coil before doing the head gasket job had to film it to get Chrysler to warranty it. 2018 Pacifica.
I had my eye on a super clean 2014 Caravan 136k and all maint records, But to take a chance on major engine worries..nope. pass it by.
Did you buy it?
@@mame-lomamee Nope, I was afraid.
If the ticking issue is not repaired, will the engine show first a misfire code and then ultimately, will it chuck a rod or piston thru the block?
It might misfire but it might not show any symptoms other than a tick. It has 2 intake and 2 exhaust valves per Cylinder. If one no longer opens properly it still has the other. The biggest risk I see is the potential for the rocker arm to kick out and or jam under the camshaft. Depending on how that happens it can crack the head or leave a valve open colliding with the piston head. Not to mention the metal debris it's creating 😕
@@ValleyMobileAutomotive 👍
Should have used ceramic bearings for that .
This was incredibly informative. I just got told that my 2012 VW Routan has pretty much this same issue. It has 146k miles. Their recommendation was replacing valve lifters, timing chain, and catalytic converter totaling $11k. I’m at a loss. Obviously I’m not going to put that much into my van. Does this seem right?
Yes that's very wrong, with 146000 miles just have a new engine put in it and would be less than what you were quoted
@@seatime674 A new engine was quoted at around $8k. Still to much to invest into an older van unfortunately.
Since car companies say ever 5k or more change your oil. Stick to grandpas days 3k
I have a 2015 journey. 145 k . No noise.
I got a 2013 jeep wrangler with a 3.6 it now has 150,000 miles on it bought it brand new in 2013. It has ticked since the day I bought it. This is a solution in search of a problem.
Are there aftermarket rockers/lifters that you recommend? Are there upgraded/updated oem rockers/lifters? Where should I order from. Also, if replacing a camshaft, just go OEM?
The OEM rockers have been updated. If at all possible I would stick with OEM parts. Melling is also a good aftermarket brand if the OEM parts are out of stock.
@@ValleyMobileAutomotive ok great. Thanks for the quick reply!
Don't get a recommend from this promotor.
I would think that a roller rocker with needle bearings would be able to survive on little or no oil unlike regular plain bearings that require constant oil and could be wiped out by dry starts. Seems like something else is in play here........
What's the estimated labor charge on this repair?
I believe service manual says like 8hrs
Drove mine like this for over 2 years before I was able to fix it. Mileage may vary LOL
Took. My 3.6 Pacifica 2019 making ticking. They said they replaced four rockers arms and I got it back. It's still ticking. I took pictures before I took it in and did video. I get it back and they never took the valve covers off but they told me they replaced four rockers. I got the service manager and said how'd you do it without taking the valve covers off now? It's been in the shop for a week and they said they'll make it right. Waiting on parts for a week. Only 54k on my Pacifica they lied. They cheated the company. They cheated me now. I called her BS and relying on them to fix it and this is a dealer where I bought my van at brand new
Sorry to hear you're having trouble. It's good you have proof to help you out. Hopefully they make it right this time.
I change my oil every 4k snd no issues at 95k
What's the average cost to do a job like that ?
I’ve been seeing between $1200-$1400 for the most….(provided that there’s no damage to the cams)
With just keep oil change every 3k it won't tick use quality oil and fitler
Full Syn Mobil every 3k and never run hard. Have tik at 130k - Wheee
It can be a manufacturing defect and a metallurgical failure because of it. If you're replacing it with another one that can fail because of a flaw you are simply going to have to keep doing it. Unfortunately you can't visually inspect the needle bearing in the rocker after manufacturing, you'd need to do it before and we're talking thousands of them.
Fortunately the parts have been updated, so hopefully they fixed whatever was causing the failure.
Has this issue been resolved?
I believe so. Mopar has updated their rockers. So the new ones should be better.
I have the older chrysler 3.3L engine in an 09 caravan that is rusting....engine has 180,000 and burns about .75 quarts of oil every 5 miles......Never has a problem except I needed to change the instake gasket.....the thing is bullet proof. I need a new car and simply don't know what to get.....many large cars like SUVs are going to turbo......they run hot....many cars use plastic oil housings.....Kia/Hyundai 3.5/3.8L are know to have excessive oil burning and piston slap......I don't fit into the highlander....I dont want to spend $50K on a car now adays only to spend $5000 on engine work like this. When are these car makers going to get it right?
that's a lot of oil...
My gas engine sound like a Diesel engine. It sounds so cool.
I am in the class car hobby. I have pulled apart many engines that have sat for years and they still had oil in and on the rockers, lifters, and journals. Dry start argument for the 3.6 Mopar is nonsense. No such thing in any car that sits overnight or while you're on vacation. What's the problem, then? Poor design and materials. The overhead cam(s) design goes back a long way with Fiat, Triumph, Jaguar, etc. This should not be a problem with modern engines. Again, poor design and materials!
Well explained
To me, that looks like an over reaction changing ALL the rockers and the cam, too. I'd closely inspect ALL the rockers and lifters. If they look/feel good, I'd reinstall them. The actual cam lobe surface where the new rocker roller will actually run on looked fine to me, so I would not have replaced the cam, BUT I would have DEFINITELY replaced the lifter acting on that failed rocker.
If you're in a toot to spend some money, I WOULD replace the oil cooler, while it's all torn down to that point, because they are known to start leaking starting at around that mileage, and beside it might be contaminated with metal grinding dust from failed rocker.
I wouldn't want to do this job again if another rocker fails in the future. You can watch the whole repair video. It's a pain in the tootie!
ua-cam.com/video/9qLPDv7kgvI/v-deo.html
@@ValleyMobileAutomotive are there aftermarket rockers/lifters that you recommend?
@@LugoDH Recently did this job using Melling MR1332 rockers, so far so good. Can't speak for longevity as I've yet to put them through the paces.
"that looks like an over reaction changing ALL the rockers and the cam, too"
I hope you don't work on cars for a living. You just rip people off by doing a job multiple times.
I can remember the hype years ago with the introduction of this Pentastar engine. It was amazing.... Really. As usual typical Chrysler junk. Just save all the hassle and get a Honda or Toyota !
2014 wrangler 90 k and ticking . This shouldn’t happen until 150 thousand miles or more. Costly and upsetting.
Don't blame the design for poor maintenance. i have 3.6 Pentastar with 120,000 miles and no ticking. Change you fricking oil!
What's interesting is I did this on a Grand Caravan with almost 200k before rocker failure. Not every vehicle will have this issue but enough of them are failing to make people aware. If your engine starts ticking get it looked at. It could be the difference between changing a rocker or changing the engine.
What oil do you use?
What year? This issue only affects 2014-2020 pentastars. There’s actually an ongoing class action lawsuit about this. Google it man
Yeah but 2012 wrangler 3.6 is junk and poor design CELs cheap oil cooler assembly dual stage oil pump. Even with all the maintenance. I regret buying a jeep
My 2020 3.6 with 21,000 miles. 3 oil changes using Mobile 1 full synthetic has this. It's a manufacturing issue. Hence why you don't find the same issues with a Toyota V6.
Well considering they literally made millions upon millions of these engines. Mine has 185K on it and still runs great. I get 33 mpg or better on a 4k lb car.
What car?? I got a jk and I'm not getting that lol
@@danielq.4371 Chrysler 300.
Good video!
Oh yes it’s ticking like a drummer
No ticks until 200k, then it came fast and the oil cooler failure
Not a flaw poor maintenance. I use 5w-30 summer and 5w-40 in winter
why a heavier oil in winter???
lives on the other side of earth, Hotter over there in the winter?@@BlueMagicx
They’re both still 5w cold. Where most of the wear is coming from so that really makes no difference.