Okay, I was gonna defend your first line, but now that I'm halfway through the video, it seems like i'm gonna be defending the whole damn opening. Firstly, right, it's a first draft. Second, courageous as all get out to go back and reread an old first draft you're not thrilled with to us faceless millions. Serious guts to do that, fellow creator. Inspiring. Worth the price of admission. Third, most every criticism you have simply sounds like a good edit. I wasn't confused by your opening line. The second sentence seems to point to some kinda time travel, or severe mind manipulation and that seems like a good thing (and the mind manipulation is actually accurate), establishes genre and tone pretty effortlessly. I didn't find it confusing at all. Ambiguous, sure. But, clear enough to not put me remotely off. And I didn't have to reread it to understand, got it the moment you read it - which is, in my experience, pretty dang impressive for a sentence as ambigous as that. Second sentence reads stronger than the first, but, great for a first draft. I read "gargoyle" not as a ham-handed indication that "he's the villain," but as a self-image thing. He feels like a gargoyle. He feels dehumanized, made of stone, possibly old and crumbling, broody to the point of self-parody, or something like that. It's evocative. It sets a tone. He sounds like someone who might be a little hard on himself, which sounds pretty darn relatable. Calling the AI "House" didn't sound "holier than thou," just sounded like this guy is maybe a Taurus or something. Just no nonsense person, not a bad characeristic. Heroes do well to have strong opinions. I, as a reader, don't need to agree with every one of them - I shouldn't, really - it's just good to see a character that actually shows up. All your "infodumps" can be massaged and improved with a second draft. Dump the full name tag, etc. The core premise comes shining through and that gives your first draft a headstart over a lot of dreck I've read. And, yeah, that paragraph on the second page is the meat of what you have so far, so, yes, move it onto page one - again, this reads to me like a very workable first draft, not a lost cause by any means. Also, a lot of your criticisms of Jerry sound exactly like things he might think himself. As when he says, "Thanks" to a f-bleep-ing AI, he can castigate himself for behaving like an atomaton himself. Y'know? I also like stuff like Jerry waving his hand and House getting the message - it doesn't require more explanation if your reader is remotely familiar with the genre. You seem like a writer I'd like, who doesn't spoonfeed such things, but drops me in Jerry's world. Anyway. I'd give this story another look, for sure. Fun vid.
Well thank you so much for taking the time to write that up for me, I really appreciate it. It's both very easy and very hard to critical of your own work, and I suppose had this been another day/month, I might have felt differently about it. I think I'm quite biased against this particular project as the experience of writing it essentally put me off longer stuff for a good while. I agree most of is could be fixed with edits and your suggestions are spot on, I think I just didn't have the energy for it at that point. Thanks again, appreciate the feedback :)
The great thing about reading past work/first drafts is finding those moments you genuinely like about your own story. Or at least finding that some parts are actually interesting or funny like you'd intended. Good video man, first drafts are hard to share with people lol
Absolutely! There were a couple of things here and there I liked and overall it wasn't as bad as I was expecting. First drafts are definitely hard to share but we all have to go through them, I figure maybe it'll help someone feel better about theirs too! 😂
Very commendable honest self-reflection here. Love this type of video. I think credit where it's due -- Retrograde Radio is a genuinely great title. It has a beautiful ring, it's intriguing and evocative while being ambiguous enough to mean a lot of things. Hopefully you'll find a better work to go with it, would be a shame to waste!
Your old stuff reminds me of my school days writing a comic just to write a comic. But your old work gets my interest. Takes a humble boy to show rough work. Good content as usual.
I think writing just to write was exactly what I was doing with this, your spot on. Thanks very much, I don't mind showing rough work every now and then, we've all been there!
Awesome breakdown. This made me reassess my own writing, and I love the comments from your better self. I am at the edge of my seat, interested in where the story goes! More, please.
Thank you! I really enjoyed this video, in an odd sort of way 🙂 Initially I had intended to do a lot more of these, but I don't think a long term series of this was ultimately that popular of an idea (understandably) 😂 You never know though.
1. Yes. It is a comically bad first line, and it sets a comical tone for the book. Dirk Gently could have begun like that. 2. A cool logo is important. It sets the tone of the story and can inspire you to write better. I made the cover for a couple of my best books before I wrote them.
@@KierenWestwoodWriting this one was just so insightful for how you specifically write. It's nice to see a more personal lens on your own process as a creative
Hi! Sorry I’m late to be replying to this vid, but I would absolutely love to see more videos in this style - incredibly helpful. In my first big project, the chapters I spent the most time on are (ironically) the ones I’m least pleased with … but that’s actually encouraging, because it helps me realise that by the end of the book, I’d become smoother and more efficient at knowing what I wanted to write and getting it down quickly. You learn through it all! Thank you so much for sharing this video - and on a side note, I also really enjoyed the paragraph about AI names. You’re not alienating anyone, it’s stuff like this that makes memorable characters! :-)
Thanks so much! I enjoy looking back at old work, it does give a bit of perspective, especailly if I'm in a rut. Making videos like these also helps as i'm making it very clear my writing can be improved (to say the least) and that's always a good thing to show becasue it's the reality of writing 🙂
LET ME KNOW IF YOU WANT ME TO MAKE THIS A SERIES! MY FLASH FICTION COURSE: www.udemy.com/share/103LYUAEA... WE'D LOVE TO HAVE YOU IN OUR DISCORD COMMUNITY!: discord.gg/c6gZS2p
Thank you! I definitely learned I need to read old stuff more, though I'm very aware that this was the most polished chapter in the 'book' so the others may be...different 😬 I'm thinking about carrying on with this though, so people might see my real first draft shame soon 😂
Love this. Reading old work is always a good idea, as it not only shows you what areas you need/have improved in, but it motivates you when you - hopefully - see your growth. Also, a book in 3 months is impressive! I'm gradually picking up my speed (around 1.5 - 2.5k a day at the moment) and hope to be able to achieve this eventually haha.
Agreed, it does feel oddly motivational. It feels like turning back and realising you've walked further than you thought. Yeah, writing fast doesn't work for me at all, that was the big lesson this book really taught me, which is where it's been most valuable to me I think! All writers are different of course but I get lazy when I write fast unfortunately!
@@KierenWestwoodWriting 100% And yeah I definitely get that. I can't speed write, this also ends badly for me. But I'm teaching myself to write more efficiently and to spend larger chunks doing it to have a larger outcome. You're definitely right though - all writers are different, and different things work for us.
It's interesting to watch someone else putting themselves through this. It makes me feel as though maybe -- just maybe -- I need to give my own first-draft false starts a second look before I drag them out into the yard and set them on fire.
I'd say it's definitely worth having a look at them. Perspective can do funny things to a story! I'm still hoping there's a way I can resurrect this book, but I haven't had time to give it a shot yet!
I could use Optas to help me with 2020 memories lol Also to play devils advocate, the paper wrist band part, depends. We were supposed to have flying cars by now lol some societies take longer to catch up than others in some sectors lol I had a similar thought in something I was writing. #OkMillennial lol good stuff! I like your style!
You're right! What happened to those flying cars we were promised? Way behind schedule at this point. I take your point entirely and thank you for watching! ☺
Hey man, These videos where you look back and talk about stuff you've done are really helpful. Perhaps it's because that's where I am. I've got something, it's not very good, it's not quite what I intended it to be, what do I do with it now? I've written a (pretty crappy) first draft of two novels now. Had false starts on a bunch of others. Now I'm asking myself whether it's better for me to go back over them again, or to take what I've learned and move on. Anyway, that's where I am. I had been wondering whether you'd consider going back to older stuff. Not so much this story, which I didn't know about, but I wondered whether you'd consider going back and rewriting the crime one, so it's set in the US again. Great stuff.
Hey, how are you? I really needed this comment today! It came at exactly the right time. I've been toing and froing over whether to do more of this, but I wasn't sure if it actually had value to people or not. But if it's been useful I might just carry on with it. For the old crime novel, I might not go back and rewrite it in its current form because it's irreversibly changed now. I might try to completely write it again in future though, as I originally intended or I might do something like this with it instead, so that at least I can take something away from it. Like you, I've got another two novels drafts sitting around, so sooner or later I want to read them all and see how my approach has changed since I wrote them.
@@KierenWestwoodWriting Well, you're very welcome. I feel that there's a lot of information around helping people get through their first drafts, but less on how to approach the mess that you've gotten yourself into when the first draft is finished. That could be because it would depend so much on the individual situations. But just seeing someone go through their old work and diagnose the issues with it is really helpful and something that I haven't seen much of.
Awesome, in that case I'll probably roll this into a series. I figure I'll encounter different problems at different stages throughout the book, so hopefully there'll always be something useful there.
If you can't spend hours on a cool title page for your book, then what's the point, Kieren? Don't be too hard on yourself--first drafts are always the worst version of the story we're hoping to tell. Although sometimes you finish a draft and you just never want to look at it again...I have a couple of those sitting around. Would you consider revising this at some point or are you just not that interested in the story anymore? Maybe a portion of it or a concept could be used for a short story?
Well exactly! Logos are a magnificent procrastination task for me! I don't think I'd revise this because I feel like my heart wasn't in it and it's time has sort of come and gone. I originally wrote a short story with the same main character and tried to jump start this novel from it, so I kind of did it a bit backwards! 🙂
Thanks so much! I think I fell out of love with this one halfway through, maybe I can do a better job of using the idea somewhere. And he DEFINITELY should have shut that window 😂
I'd say write it as a short first, if it works, that's great, you've got a story. If it feels like it needs to be longer, then you've just gained more knowledge about your story and a little experience in writing it, which you can carry forward into the longer version. I'm a big advocate for writing short stuff, I think it has a lot of advantages.
It's not nearly as bad as he made it seem! He may be overly critical. On the bright side, if everyone were like this, we would have far less crappy indie books, which is a good thing!
Okay, I was gonna defend your first line, but now that I'm halfway through the video, it seems like i'm gonna be defending the whole damn opening. Firstly, right, it's a first draft. Second, courageous as all get out to go back and reread an old first draft you're not thrilled with to us faceless millions. Serious guts to do that, fellow creator. Inspiring. Worth the price of admission. Third, most every criticism you have simply sounds like a good edit. I wasn't confused by your opening line. The second sentence seems to point to some kinda time travel, or severe mind manipulation and that seems like a good thing (and the mind manipulation is actually accurate), establishes genre and tone pretty effortlessly. I didn't find it confusing at all. Ambiguous, sure. But, clear enough to not put me remotely off. And I didn't have to reread it to understand, got it the moment you read it - which is, in my experience, pretty dang impressive for a sentence as ambigous as that. Second sentence reads stronger than the first, but, great for a first draft.
I read "gargoyle" not as a ham-handed indication that "he's the villain," but as a self-image thing. He feels like a gargoyle. He feels dehumanized, made of stone, possibly old and crumbling, broody to the point of self-parody, or something like that. It's evocative. It sets a tone. He sounds like someone who might be a little hard on himself, which sounds pretty darn relatable.
Calling the AI "House" didn't sound "holier than thou," just sounded like this guy is maybe a Taurus or something. Just no nonsense person, not a bad characeristic. Heroes do well to have strong opinions. I, as a reader, don't need to agree with every one of them - I shouldn't, really - it's just good to see a character that actually shows up.
All your "infodumps" can be massaged and improved with a second draft. Dump the full name tag, etc. The core premise comes shining through and that gives your first draft a headstart over a lot of dreck I've read.
And, yeah, that paragraph on the second page is the meat of what you have so far, so, yes, move it onto page one - again, this reads to me like a very workable first draft, not a lost cause by any means.
Also, a lot of your criticisms of Jerry sound exactly like things he might think himself. As when he says, "Thanks" to a f-bleep-ing AI, he can castigate himself for behaving like an atomaton himself. Y'know?
I also like stuff like Jerry waving his hand and House getting the message - it doesn't require more explanation if your reader is remotely familiar with the genre. You seem like a writer I'd like, who doesn't spoonfeed such things, but drops me in Jerry's world.
Anyway. I'd give this story another look, for sure. Fun vid.
Well thank you so much for taking the time to write that up for me, I really appreciate it. It's both very easy and very hard to critical of your own work, and I suppose had this been another day/month, I might have felt differently about it.
I think I'm quite biased against this particular project as the experience of writing it essentally put me off longer stuff for a good while.
I agree most of is could be fixed with edits and your suggestions are spot on, I think I just didn't have the energy for it at that point.
Thanks again, appreciate the feedback :)
The great thing about reading past work/first drafts is finding those moments you genuinely like about your own story.
Or at least finding that some parts are actually interesting or funny like you'd intended.
Good video man, first drafts are hard to share with people lol
Absolutely! There were a couple of things here and there I liked and overall it wasn't as bad as I was expecting. First drafts are definitely hard to share but we all have to go through them, I figure maybe it'll help someone feel better about theirs too! 😂
Very commendable honest self-reflection here. Love this type of video. I think credit where it's due -- Retrograde Radio is a genuinely great title. It has a beautiful ring, it's intriguing and evocative while being ambiguous enough to mean a lot of things. Hopefully you'll find a better work to go with it, would be a shame to waste!
It isn't a bad title, you're right! The alliteration probably helps. Thank you :)
Your old stuff reminds me of my school days writing a comic just to write a comic. But your old work gets my interest. Takes a humble boy to show rough work. Good content as usual.
I think writing just to write was exactly what I was doing with this, your spot on. Thanks very much, I don't mind showing rough work every now and then, we've all been there!
"close the window!" I don't know why I found that so funny but I did. Thanks for my lunchtime giggle 😂👍
It's what I was thinking! For goodness sake man, why was I so focussed on that moody open window 😂 I'm so glad I could give you a laugh 😄
Awesome breakdown. This made me reassess my own writing, and I love the comments from your better self. I am at the edge of my seat, interested in where the story goes! More, please.
Thank you! I really enjoyed this video, in an odd sort of way 🙂 Initially I had intended to do a lot more of these, but I don't think a long term series of this was ultimately that popular of an idea (understandably) 😂 You never know though.
1. Yes. It is a comically bad first line, and it sets a comical tone for the book. Dirk Gently could have begun like that. 2. A cool logo is important. It sets the tone of the story and can inspire you to write better. I made the cover for a couple of my best books before I wrote them.
your personality and flare for creating content is really flourishing here, loved this vid!
Thanks mate 🙂 I feel like I have no real consistency in the videos I'm making at the moment, but at least it stops it being boring I suppose!
@@KierenWestwoodWriting no, they're NEVER boring!!! Like, ever!!!
@@KierenWestwoodWriting this one was just so insightful for how you specifically write. It's nice to see a more personal lens on your own process as a creative
Awesome, I'll think about carrying on with this then, or else doing something similar 😊
Hi! Sorry I’m late to be replying to this vid, but I would absolutely love to see more videos in this style - incredibly helpful. In my first big project, the chapters I spent the most time on are (ironically) the ones I’m least pleased with … but that’s actually encouraging, because it helps me realise that by the end of the book, I’d become smoother and more efficient at knowing what I wanted to write and getting it down quickly. You learn through it all! Thank you so much for sharing this video - and on a side note, I also really enjoyed the paragraph about AI names. You’re not alienating anyone, it’s stuff like this that makes memorable characters! :-)
Thanks so much! I enjoy looking back at old work, it does give a bit of perspective, especailly if I'm in a rut. Making videos like these also helps as i'm making it very clear my writing can be improved (to say the least) and that's always a good thing to show becasue it's the reality of writing 🙂
LET ME KNOW IF YOU WANT ME TO MAKE THIS A SERIES!
MY FLASH FICTION COURSE:
www.udemy.com/share/103LYUAEA...
WE'D LOVE TO HAVE YOU IN OUR DISCORD COMMUNITY!:
discord.gg/c6gZS2p
Love this style of video! It’s really cool to hear you critique your own writing. I think a ton can be learned from going back and iterating!
Thank you! I definitely learned I need to read old stuff more, though I'm very aware that this was the most polished chapter in the 'book' so the others may be...different 😬
I'm thinking about carrying on with this though, so people might see my real first draft shame soon 😂
Love this. Reading old work is always a good idea, as it not only shows you what areas you need/have improved in, but it motivates you when you - hopefully - see your growth. Also, a book in 3 months is impressive! I'm gradually picking up my speed (around 1.5 - 2.5k a day at the moment) and hope to be able to achieve this eventually haha.
Agreed, it does feel oddly motivational. It feels like turning back and realising you've walked further than you thought.
Yeah, writing fast doesn't work for me at all, that was the big lesson this book really taught me, which is where it's been most valuable to me I think! All writers are different of course but I get lazy when I write fast unfortunately!
@@KierenWestwoodWriting 100%
And yeah I definitely get that. I can't speed write, this also ends badly for me. But I'm teaching myself to write more efficiently and to spend larger chunks doing it to have a larger outcome.
You're definitely right though - all writers are different, and different things work for us.
It's interesting to watch someone else putting themselves through this. It makes me feel as though maybe -- just maybe -- I need to give my own first-draft false starts a second look before I drag them out into the yard and set them on fire.
I'd say it's definitely worth having a look at them. Perspective can do funny things to a story! I'm still hoping there's a way I can resurrect this book, but I haven't had time to give it a shot yet!
I could use Optas to help me with 2020 memories lol Also to play devils advocate, the paper wrist band part, depends. We were supposed to have flying cars by now lol some societies take longer to catch up than others in some sectors lol I had a similar thought in something I was writing. #OkMillennial lol good stuff! I like your style!
You're right! What happened to those flying cars we were promised? Way behind schedule at this point. I take your point entirely and thank you for watching! ☺
Hey man,
These videos where you look back and talk about stuff you've done are really helpful. Perhaps it's because that's where I am. I've got something, it's not very good, it's not quite what I intended it to be, what do I do with it now?
I've written a (pretty crappy) first draft of two novels now. Had false starts on a bunch of others. Now I'm asking myself whether it's better for me to go back over them again, or to take what I've learned and move on.
Anyway, that's where I am.
I had been wondering whether you'd consider going back to older stuff. Not so much this story, which I didn't know about, but I wondered whether you'd consider going back and rewriting the crime one, so it's set in the US again.
Great stuff.
Hey, how are you?
I really needed this comment today! It came at exactly the right time.
I've been toing and froing over whether to do more of this, but I wasn't sure if it actually had value to people or not. But if it's been useful I might just carry on with it.
For the old crime novel, I might not go back and rewrite it in its current form because it's irreversibly changed now. I might try to completely write it again in future though, as I originally intended or I might do something like this with it instead, so that at least I can take something away from it.
Like you, I've got another two novels drafts sitting around, so sooner or later I want to read them all and see how my approach has changed since I wrote them.
@@KierenWestwoodWriting Well, you're very welcome.
I feel that there's a lot of information around helping people get through their first drafts, but less on how to approach the mess that you've gotten yourself into when the first draft is finished. That could be because it would depend so much on the individual situations. But just seeing someone go through their old work and diagnose the issues with it is really helpful and something that I haven't seen much of.
Awesome, in that case I'll probably roll this into a series. I figure I'll encounter different problems at different stages throughout the book, so hopefully there'll always be something useful there.
If you can't spend hours on a cool title page for your book, then what's the point, Kieren?
Don't be too hard on yourself--first drafts are always the worst version of the story we're hoping to tell. Although sometimes you finish a draft and you just never want to look at it again...I have a couple of those sitting around.
Would you consider revising this at some point or are you just not that interested in the story anymore? Maybe a portion of it or a concept could be used for a short story?
Well exactly! Logos are a magnificent procrastination task for me!
I don't think I'd revise this because I feel like my heart wasn't in it and it's time has sort of come and gone. I originally wrote a short story with the same main character and tried to jump start this novel from it, so I kind of did it a bit backwards! 🙂
I liked it, tho with some rewriting it could really shine. The whole idea sounds intriguing. Tho he should've closed the window sooner 🤣🤣
Thanks so much! I think I fell out of love with this one halfway through, maybe I can do a better job of using the idea somewhere.
And he DEFINITELY should have shut that window 😂
I actually thought what you wrote was really interesting. It was good.
more vids like this, pls 👍
I'd happily make more if ppl want to see it. I have counted your vote, thank you 😀
How do you know if a story is going to be better as a short or if it could be fleshed out to long form?
I'd say write it as a short first, if it works, that's great, you've got a story. If it feels like it needs to be longer, then you've just gained more knowledge about your story and a little experience in writing it, which you can carry forward into the longer version.
I'm a big advocate for writing short stuff, I think it has a lot of advantages.
It's not nearly as bad as he made it seem! He may be overly critical. On the bright side, if everyone were like this, we would have far less crappy indie books, which is a good thing!
Either I’m first or second comment lol
You were the first real comment, beaten only by my pined comment which doesn't count! 😀
I'm not gonna lie dude I think you are way to harsh on your old self
You might be right there, thanks 😊