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Runtime Testing The Bosch CORE18V 4.0 Ah VS Fatpack 4.0 Ah VS CORE18V 6.3 Ah
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- Опубліковано 2 гру 2018
- We have often wondered if the new 1P Bosch Core18V 4.0 battery was going to have a similar runtime to the older Bosch 2P FatPack 4.0 Ah battery. Before we get into that, let's start with some explanation of what some of the terms we use. P stands Parallel and S stands for Series. In all of our 18-volt batteries, we have 5 cells wired in series. Basically Series means if you have a battery, then wire another one "in line" + to - chaining them up it will retain the same Ah, but add up the voltage from each cell (5 cells times 3.6 volts equals 18-volts. Parallel is still wiring together but instead of a chain, both the + and both the - leads are wired together and that will result in the same voltage, but increase the Ah.
To recap, the number before the S is the number of cells in series will tell you the voltage and the number before the P is the number of parallel batteries in your pack. We currently see 1P, 2P, and 3P in the tool world at this time.
The next topic is the cells used in our tool batteries. In the past, 18650 cells (18mm wide 65mm long and 0=round) were used as they were mass produced and cheap. Currently, tool manufacturers are starting to use 21700 batteries (20mm wide 70mm long and 0=round) as they are the new norm and provide a bit more watt-hours.
So in this video we are comparing the old 2P technology with a 4.0 Ah rating with 18650 cells to the new 1P 21700 batteries with a 4.0 Ah rating. Clear as mud? Maybe the video will help!
Good straight to the point review. I wish your channel much success!
I’ve been curious about the new Bosch batteries... Thanks for the test
I have 5 pieces of Bosch ProCORE18V 4.0 Ah, all the cells are correct, the machines work but they won't charge? The charger has been tested and works properly.
Thanks for the video I was looking for the comparison on the vacuum and battery ah differences.
I have Bosch (green) and Bosch professional (bleu) tools. They both an 18V battery. But an 18V battery of a Bosch is not interchangeable with those on a Bosch professional.
I did not know that when I bought them. This info is also not clearly mentioned anywhere.
This is what I find a huge problem with battery tools. If you have several brands and use different voltages you can end up with a lot of batteries and chargers and still not have enough spare batteries.
With that particular vacuum you have suction power differences when it comes to the batteries. The larger procore (2p) gives you much more suction power during the runtime than the 4 ah procore (1p).
I wonder why you do not mention that.
That's strange, because the cordless vacuum only uses in the range of +- 250 watts. That's far below the maximum power output of the 4Ah ProCore. It uses Samsung INR 21700-40T cells, which provide around 35 amps continuous and 45 amps temp limited. In a 5 cell battery, that equates to 630 watts continuous and 810 watts temp limited.
@@macvos
Well the practical use of it gives you the idea of it.
It just sucks less with the smaller batteri.
Most be that the bigger batteri can do more output bc of more cells... or that the machine is programmed to take less power from batteries with fewer cells.
@@benjaminjensen111 I believe you, but am very interesting in finding out where this difference comes from, because there is no technical necessity to do so.
Food for thought! Thanks for posting👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Can I use charger Al1860 to charge CORE18V 6.3 Ah Battery?
Wow battery technology has really improved in the past couple of years.
Imagine in another 10yrs. Great time to be in cordless tools
We cannot wait!
@@WorkshopAddict
In our lifetime I won't be surprised if there would be a mini cold fusion reactor built into the tool so she would run forever!!! Loll Iron man style
What about power ? If it comes to circular saw it makes a big difference. When I plug my 1.5 battery to my gks it just doesnt cut MDF ot plywood due to lack of power.
Expect 630 watts continuously for the 4Ah ProCore and 1260 for the 5,5Ah and 8Ah ones.
Temperature limited power is 810 watts and 1620 watts respectively. The 4Ah is easily strong enough to cut MDF or plywood, but the 5,5 Ah and bigger will do better with denser and thicker wood.
For reference: the old 1.5 Ah batteries are probably around 360 watts (using 20A 18650 cells). The newer 4Ah and 5Ah regular 18V batteries should provide around 800 watts continuous. Peak power between the 4Ah ProCore and 4 or 5 Ah regular are comparable.
I have nothing to say about this but I always see these guys post first .
So at least I have that ....lol
LMAO. No comment on the video? :)
I bought a Bosch job site radio. Would one of these batteries only run the radio for ~ 15 minutes also with these core 4 amp 18 volt batteries?
15 minutes? More like 6-8 hours.
I typically get 3 (8 hour) days of runtime on my Bosch jobsite radio with the 4ah procore ... 15 minutes? 6-8 hours? What are y'all doing? 😂
Interesting..., Love the channel 👍
Nice test. Is the new pack really smaller? It looks like it is still wider and longer than the older P2 pack
It is a touch wider and a touch longer, but not as thick.
I think there is a key parameter missing here. You should do a water lift test to test the power of suction. I would put money on the 2p pack providing the vacuum more suction power. It has the capability to provide more amps theoretically if the cells are similar. Although new tech could allow more amps to come from the new cells. Run time is more relatable to amp hours, where as power and current draw is relatable to amps drawn or c rating... I would expect reputable manufacturers to be truthful on the amp hours so comparing two similar amp hours should return similar results.
The current CORE18V battery will allow for 1440 watt draw where the Bosch FatPack will allow for an 800 watt draw. So the CORE18V will do better on the water test you speak of. But my goal here was to see if a 1p battery will do as well as a 2p for runtime. New tech with half the cells kept up with old tech.
@@liammiller3688 Bosch uses the 45A temp limited rating (since most devices don't actually use full power continuously for long periods of time), resulting in the 18V*45A = 810 watts for the single row and 2*18V*45A = 1620 watts for the double row batteries. I agree that the 35A continuous rating is more honest, resulting in 630 watts for single row and 1260 for double row batteries. Metabo and the CAS alliance use the same cells and split the difference, using 40A for their power specs, resulting in the 1440 watts mentioned for their double row batteries. With something like a circular or chop saw drawing max power for maybe 30 seconds at a time, 1440 watts should be achievable if the outside temperature isn't extremely high.
Excellent video, thanks!
Thank you so much now if they could just do that with other battery companies take care
I like this test. Showing true performance of the batteries. Are there any weight difference between the new and "old" formfactor? Prob neglieble
Significant weight savings on the new 1P pack.
@@WorkshopAddict that's awesome, good job Bosch👍
Great test👍
Thanks Dan
@@WorkshopAddict the 4.0 CORE18V battery isn't available yet in Canada but I'm hoping to get my hands on one when they're out. I think you're right Brian about the 6.3 being a bit heavy in general for tools like drills and impacts. I use the 6.3 in the vac and flood light since the run time is so good. Could definitely see the new 4.0 working well in drills and impacts. Thanks again for sharing your test, that's exactly the kind of comparison I like seeing.
What about current draw? I think these new packs are using 21700 cells and the others are using 18650 . Will the 1 layer packs produce the same current or lower?
I cannot tell you that. That is computer chip controlled.
Per Bosch's website : All Bosch Core18V packs can now draw up to 1440 Watts as opposed to a maximum of 800 Watts from their current FatPacks packs
Lower.
The 4.0 slim pack is likely using the Samsung 40T 21700 cell. Which has a 30A max continuous discharge rating. (this is the same cell that's used in the 12 Ah Flexvolt & Milwaukee HO batteries, btw)
The standard 18650 4.0 pack is most likely using a 25A cell. But since it's in a 2P configuration you get ~50A max continuous discharge.
So the older style standard battery would perform better on reciprocating saws, circular saws & grinders when under full load. These sorts of tools can draw as much as ~40A continuous when pushed hard.
@@stupidwapdaggo Ok, well, we need a way to test this without many variables...... Ideas?
@@WorkshopAddict someone did suggest a water lift test. But I'm not sure if that's enough to saturate a 30A cell with a vacuum like that. I have a similar Ryobi vac that, IIRC, draws ~15A unloaded, which means it would last about ~15 minutes on a 4.0 battery the same as yours. But I don't think it went very far past ~25A when I blocked the intake with my hand. I'd have to test it again to be sure.
The slim pack should still see more voltage sagging though. So in theory, there should be some marked difference.
Otherwise I'd just take a circular saw and push it hard through a 4x4 or something. Then put the footage side by side and get a good sound recording of the motor. A lot of voltage drop due to high current on the battery side will result in a sluggish sounding motor. A periodic temperature test of the two batteries after X # of cuts would be a good idea as well. The 30A pack will get hotter faster if you keep pushing it to its limit. And if you push it hard enough I bet you could make the slim pack go into a thermal timeout too.
Now that's not going to be a very consistent test ofc, but it should be pretty obvious that the regular 4.0 battery is just better equipped to run high drain tools.
Otherwise you could try a sawzall with 5, 10, 15 or 25+ lb weights.
No idea what Bosch tools you guys have ofc, so I'm just spitballing here.
Do they have the same peak current draw though
Obviously not, we were only testing runtime.
The Bosch 4ah fatpack uses 18650 cells 4ah Core uses 21700 cells and the discontinued 6.3ah uses 20700 cells
Either way, 4 Ah is 4 Ah.
Can you do a review on the Bosch 18v miter saw?
Will put that on our list
Great test but only 15 min run time is not worth it to me. Corded vacuum is still the way to go.
This test was about the battery, not the vac. But I understand your point.
@@WorkshopAddict I know it was about the batteries. I am just commenting on the whole cordless vac thing.
@@MarkK01 Gotcha 👍
15 min for the 4ah, that's why there is the 12 ah to give you 45 mins.
Resting and moving from one cleaning spot to another consumes 1 hr. By that time, your 2nd 12 ah battery is already charged and ready to do the job.
4 ah battery is for lightweight tools such as the Bosch screw driver.
amazing tks
I might be losing my mind but none of the 36 volt systems seem to have any power boost over 18’s
Metabo HPT 36 volt stuff will rock most 18 volt platforms
WorkshopAddict really? Milwaukee’s ? The numbers don’t show it on paper most of the time it seems.
@@Fee.1 yup, the impact driver, drill, miter saw... All kick Milwaukee s butt
WorkshopAddict realllllly I swore I looked at the impact specifically I thought even the rigid beat it fascinating. Maybe it was just makita’s numbers that were lower than expected
@@Fee.1 the Metabo HPT tripple hammer has been on the top of the pack for a long time in real world performance
Hey, can you test a procore 7.0ah on that vacuum and answer me back what runtime you got?
We do not have a 7.0 in the USA as far as I know. But it should be the same, about 4 minutes per Ah, so 28 minutes.
@@WorkshopAddict I was wondering if the 6.3 and the 7.0 are the same battery. Thanks for the answer
@@yooo711 I do not believe so.
The closest will be the 8ah. The 6,3 and 7ah was more of a teaser. The 6,3 was only advertised for a short time in Europe, before 7ah came a year ago. I don't think Bosch advertise 7ah anymore, and they are going quite cheap now. From what I heard the 6,3 and 7ah are identical but a chip. The weight and size is exactly the same.
Gracias 👍 buen análisis !
Pregunta: la batería tiene 4 terminales, los de los extremos corresponde a positivo y negativo...sabes que función cumple los otros dos del interior?
Ya encontré algo de información...en realidad son 5 terminales aunque no siempre se usan todos.
Positivo, Data1, Sensor Temperatura (NTC), Data2 y Negativo.
En definitiva permite la comunicación con el cargador o una herramienta específica por ejemplo la amoladora y sirve para proteger la batería 🤷
What about the battery temperature?
great Video Fast and RIGHT to the point, You didn't take 20min to make a 4:02 video
Any Metabo comming to your channel?
just got a Grinder and Impact Wrench today. We already did a recip saw.
WorkshopAddict i dont see the metabo recip saw video on you channel only the Metabo HPT not Metabo?
Sorry, thought you were talking the new Metabo HPT
WorkshopAddict i hate that Hitachi stole Metabos name. It confuses everyone!!!
@@jameslittle3505 Agree. I am unsure why Hitachi wants to drop the name they have and piggyback off another.
I love the vac... but if I run a 4ah core it will get the battery to 139f-147f ... and that's with the hatch open in a 72f environment and a clean new filter.
An 8ah core got up to 161f in the same test. They really should've designed a cooling system for battery compartment. At these Temps, the Batts won't hold up long.
More suction with more voltage
#WORKSHOPADDICT