Do Screws Shear easier than Nails? Let's find out!
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- Опубліковано 9 лип 2024
- Shear strength of nails and screws is something to consider when selecting a fastener for a project. For building construction, building codes come into play and some screws, such as GRK (tested per viewer request), are building code approved for some applications. A total of seven different types of nails and screws are tested in 3 types of tests to determine shear strength of each type of nail or screws. Fasteners: GRK, deck screws, drywall screws, spiral shank, galvanized 16 penny, and 16D sinkers. I purchased all the products tested and am not sponsored by any company or brand.
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This video is only for entertainment purposes. If you rely on the information portrayed in this video, you assume the responsibility for the results. Project Farm LLC - Навчання та стиль
![Cabinetry Basics Part 2 - Screws or Nails? [video 436]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LPGH_BhIzZg/mqdefault.jpg)
![ОРБАН приехал к ПУТИНУ и "отчитался" о поездке в Киев 😁 [Пародия]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/_0ukDovOWq8/mqdefault.jpg)
Just thinking about the work put into this. Between buying the supplies, cutting all the wood, putting in all the nails and screws, testing each one, then going into editing the footage, voice over, and making the graphs. Great work. 😄
Thank you very much!!
My channel would blow up if I applied his effort for sure!
Thats why we or at least me contribute a bit to patreon so he can do these entertaining tests
His effort and thoroughness are unmatched on the internet when it comes to how simple and "low-budget" (he doesn't have a team of graphic designers or editors) his videos are.
I wish I had the resources to contribute to his Patreon, because I feel bad for not paying him for his knowledge. Lol
@@bigmac575 I agree. I've spent dozens of dollars on a UA-camr who enhanced my profession greatly. It was Google Opinion Rewards. That still hurt some as occasionally I've needed a professional Google Play App and I couldn't. In a way, those bits of suffering made me smile and honored a friend and mentor.
0:36 I like how you attach the puller by screws and not nails 😅
lol. None of them sheared. Thank you!
@ well, the puller doesn't really do any pressure on those screws anyway, since it grabs around the wood by itself.
@ mh you didn't watched the video?^^ all screws were pulled out of the wood
@@rayhai6781 I think hes talking about the screws that just keep the "T" board from slipping out of the C channel. 99% of the pulling force is transmitted to the T board through the C channel itself, not the screws holding the C channel to the T board.
+
I love it when he just goes “Very impressive!” Like it just sounds so genuine and happy even though he probably says it 30 times in a single video
Every time he says «very impressive», some exec at the company that made the «very impressive» product gets a hefty raise.
Thanks to editing magic they can all be an hour apart irl so they could be very genuine
That's another great T-shirt idea!
very high quality narration and content ... very impressive : P
@@joelterrishafer6713 available in his shop
I love how you take such a logical, repeatable scientific approach to your work. You have a concept, make appropriate jigs etc to test and then test. Science teachers in high schools should use your videos to show kids how to properly research a thing.
Thanks for the nice comment!
yes, to show them how to science. then we need someone to show everyone how the Socratic method works as well, then we might have a really great world.
You shearly weren't screwing around on these tests. You've really nailed it.
lol. Thanks
Oh that’s bad. Ha!!
Groan
Oh I see you got jokes
oooooo Herbie.. you saw it and called it!
Great test but a tad misleading. "Shear" testing should end in the fasteners breaking, not pulling out.
According to a construction text book I have stashed away somewhere, fasteners are 6 times stronger when driven into cross grain at a right angle or five times stronger when toe nailed than when driven into end grain. This is why end grain fastening is always avoided or reinforced in construction applications except where there are no shear forces involved. So repeating this test driving into cross grain should have found actual shear limits of many of the fasteners. And I would be curious to know how accurate my book is.
Keep up the great work. Thanks.
Your book is spot on. The methodology he used gave a comparison under equal conditions, but had he screwed into the side of the 4x instead of the endgrain, it would be interesting to see if the the added holding power gained would have caused the screw-heads to pop off vs. the nails. I wonder... He had to know that; I wonder if other than end-grain would have exceeded the limit of his scale?
Some of those screws did a lot more bending than I thought they would have, a simple claw on a hammer demonstrates the "sheer" difference pretty quickly when you're pulling them with a hammer, and it's not nearly this close! In fact, it's virtually impossible to pull a screw with the claw of a hammer without breaking off the screw with very, VERY little force applied.
You may have noticed the difference when he breaks the screws vs. the nails, the actual solid area is much smaller on the screw than the nail. It's also why we don't use nail-gun nails for door-jams, ETC; those nails (finish) have very little holding power and bend VERY easily compared to hand nails.
I'm seeing guys use 100% screws on subfloors now. It goes against everything I was taught, but for a subfloor I suppose it makes good sense. It will ALWAYS boil down to cost and time on the job site....
^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^
It's a good thing I looked through the comments, I was about to make the same point. With that said, since the tests are done all the same way, the comparisons probably still are fair.
@@nobodycares85 absolutely. As the results were repeatedly similar, this means the test was accurate to the conditions. Changing the test parameters for other results would certainly be interesting and of value as well.
Since wood can split sometimes when you go into the cross grain, I'm wondering of the results will be less repeatable or accurate. I'm thinking cross grain varies in pattern more. This may make testing show too great of a variation in results, but without the testing done this is just a hypothesis.
Thank you for the constructive feedback!
Wife: "hunny, would u like some coffee?"
Him : "sure, lets go to the store n buy 6 different brands, n test which 1 is best"
Just kidding, love your videos.
lol Thanks for watching.
What? That's actually how I do it!
damn, id watch that.
tests for acidity and whether brewing them cold reduces that (is at least supposed to). with a few brands marketed as stomach friendly in the mix.
maybe check if boiling it in a kettle as opposed to a machine makes a difference.
along with the affects of milk and sugar.
leave a white cup filled with coffee for a month, see how much each brand stains the cup.
and ofc a chemical analysis of the caffeine content/cup.
Coffee: New bold flavor
Project Farm: we're going to test that
Coffee: oh crap
Can this coffee lubricate an engine? Let's find out.
My pap always said “why put a nail where you can put a screw” I’ve always lived by this statement. I guess the application should be considered before deciding on a fastener. Good work brother
Don’t forget (in the case of decks especially) seasonal and weather caused expansion and contraction of wood, nails allow for some of this movement, while screws do not. The wood is still going to move which means cracks, splits and the shear strength will come into play to some extent.
@@CrJoltFire Sounds about accurate. I had lived in a home with a big porch that was only a few years old, within about 2-3 years it started to crack in some places.
On some applications you use both plus glue. Such as subfloors and especially internal stairs covered in hardwood. Otherwise you get squeaky steps/floors.
THat is ONLY true if you are looking for holding strength. Sheer strength Is based on vertical pressure on a horizontal fastener. holding strength is like a vertical screw pointing up and then pulling down on it.
Haha I'd love to see a guy frame a while house with just screws 😂 imagine the time it would take! Plus then all your fastener joints would fail when the wood moves
ok , kids the channel is called project farm , & that is a lie , its a COVERT! science & engineering class ,,
Thank you very much!!
I’m wondering when he has any time to actually do any farming.
@@jbdragon3295 I kinda bet he's one of those guys that only needs 3 to 4 hours of sleep and he's just non stop all day.
It tricks you into watching by being incredibly entertaining and interesting!
@@jbdragon3295 he actually posts farming videos from time to time
I wish I was your neighbor.
I would love to be part of all these tests. I love this sort of stuff, building and testing things for real world scenarios.
You’re time and effort you put into these test is second to none.
Thank you sir.
Thank you!
The metal fatigue jig was an inspired idea; it shows that a person can perform his or her own tests, with repeatable results, on the fasteners they want to use, using easily available shop items, and a little ingenuity. Separating facts from hype can be problematic, but in construction, where safety is always an issue and tempting shortcuts abound, it's good to know you can test a fastener's shear strength, pull-out resistance, and proneness to metal fatigue in your own shop after watching this video and applying fairly simple testing principles. Thanks for another great test of the things we all use and rely on to be up to the requirements of the job.
You are welcome!
Those GRK construction screws work very well. I’m a General Contractor and we use them on builds all the time. As a matter of fact I also have a few small wooden cabinets on my garage which I framed & built with the GRKs. The shelving setup is simple 1 X placed horizontally on either side, and then the shelf just lays on top. This simple yet effective method using the GRKs is currently holding up a ton of weight with the various shelving used to hold everything from shelves with my huge collection of shop fluids/aerosols on them to cases of bottled water and Gatorade on others as well as canned goods/non perishable food storage and pet supplies. In short, They hold their weight.
The best testing I've seen to date. So much more real-life than hitting them with a hammer. Well done!
Thank you very much!
Hitting with a hammer is super misleading, because that tests shear brittleness from impact instead of shear force. Glad we have this video!
WE LOVE THIS GUY! DEFINITELY the best of the best at comparisons of what we use, absolute dedication!
The only Chanel I trust for good , entertaining and honest tests
Thank you!
Put faster into wood cross grain not with grain will result in screws breaking / shearing off before nails...
This channel has become one of my top 5 on UA-cam.
Thanks so much!
Mine to mr project
This is high quality work. I've seen academic papers with less experimental rigor.
Thanks so much!
Pity it's not actually testing shear strength.
@@Patrick-857 You're correct. However, it's measuring real world application. Far more important IMO.
Since you finished testing oils, could you test oil filters? Love your content
Great suggestion! Thank you
I agree with this request! There are many videos out there of people cutting filters open, but I really want to see the filters put through the Project Farm gauntlet.
Yeah pump some oils and crud through them!
Purolator PureONE oil filter!!! If it beats Amsoil filters I'll be shocked!!!
I'm a fan of the Fram Ultra filers.
This showed the pull-out strength of the fasterns in end grain more than the sheer strength of them. It ould have been better to fasten them into the side of the 4x4 rather than the end. I think you would have seen a lot more strength from the screws (and some of the nails) and hit the breaking point on more of the screws.
I don't know if it would be reasonable/fair/required to have something preventing the piece being pulledon fro moving away from the base piece (again to make sure the failure is sheer, not pullout)
Thanks for the constructive feedback. I've already built the required hardware (in my head) to achieve the objective you're described. I also need to use a much harder wood. The wood I used will come apart before most of the nails and screws shear
I don’t pull out
@@ProjectFarm I appreciate this softwood test since it's similar to framing methods.
Your videos are absolutely amazing. The sheer amount of time it takes to create these comparison tests for our viewing pleasure is very much appreciated. Thank you for all that you do.
Thank you very much!
Mind is blown that a seemingly flimsy drywall screw outperformed everything (including GRK's). Wouldn't have believed it, if not for your test. Thank you!
You are welcome!
Dude, I love your comparison testing. You've already helped me out on several purchases. Thanks a bunch!
Thank you!
I would still love to see some destructive testing on Snap On, Husky, Harbor Freight, Gearwrench and Craftsman wrenches, sockets, and ratchets. See how much force various modes of failure require.
Thank you!
That would be really expensive, even by PF standards. Support Project Farm on patreon if you're not already!
Have you ever had a hand tool fail on you? I’ve never had a wrench fail on me. Maybe a generic socket wrench or two. I learned my lesson with the busted knuckles.
@@MoneyManHolmes I've had ratchets barf their guts out and sockets break plenty of times, that's not even that difficult if you can brace your body and aren't a scrawny lil feller. On the other hand, I've only broken the poorest of closed end wrenches and that was with a cheater bar.
You should check out a channel called Ave. He does alot of videos like that and he's funny as hell.
I never put much thought into nails or screws until opening my own business and coming across free Tools & containers of nails/ screws. I started putting them beside each other to see the difference and still not realizing how many different selections they've made for us. But I did realize with all these tools for me to sell/scrap/throw away/give away or keep them, there was only one choice here and that is obviously to keep them but not knowing how to use them. I've never been a handyman or never really need it tools besides maybe a hammer or screwdriver. So now I realize it's time for me to take up a new challenge.. man up and learn the trade like every man should know. There's no other option around it because if I'm not good this is the time to get good because this is not one of those ideas you have and toss it out the window if you don't like it. You're a man you supposed to be building things cuz one day there's going to be a little lady from your mom to your wife it's going to need your expertise thinking her man knows everything! So you better be a contractor or be a damn good actor😂 so right now I'm barely studying measurements I'm taking on projects to where I'm just learning do I use Nails screws when do I paint it and do I just throw on paint over anything I come by is there steps and I'm 43 years old....🤔I think. I'm a new subscriber and thank you for making this channel because I'm watching videos and making projects one by one as you make yours
Thanks for sharing! Thanks for watching and subscribing!
I'm here a year after you uploaded this because Hurricane Hanna blew out a 20' section of my 1 x 6 x 6 picket fence and a side gate. Super duper test. You made it easy to choose what to use this time. Found your channel during quarantine and it is the best of all.
Sorry to hear of the damage! Glad to know you can now watch. Glad I can help. Thanks so much!
Lag bolts!
you should do test to compare different windshield water repealant like, Rain-X, aquapel, car wax and other.
how efficient they are, how long they last with rain only, how long they last with wiper blade swiping.
Thank you for the video idea!
@@ProjectFarm Test wipers themselves while you are at it. Are you better off buying several sets of cheap wipers or buying one expensive set that last much longer.
Looks like the 2x4s failed, not the screws.
The test was really about the ability of the endgrain to hold nails/screws. The nails and screws themselves were not sheared, just pulled out. However, this is just semantics - at the end of the day you want to know how strong the overall joint is, not how exactly it fails.
@@kardRatzinger Exactly! Great video with a misleading title. Wish i could upvote this comment 1000 times.
@@onehotseat You might be right, I bet endgrain is even more inconsistent than straight grain in that regard, and the sample size was too small to account for that.
At least the experiment showed that screws generally hold better than nails.
Yes, but that's the point isn't it. If the fixing is stronger then the wood then there's no issue, is there? There are many construction uses where screwing or nailing into endgrain is used.
@@98dizzard the point of the test was to see if screws were more or less shear resistant than nails. Not a single nail or screw was actually sheared, so you can't make any conclusion at all about those two in comparison. You can suggest that pine wood is a terrible building material (in terms of shear strength), which it is.
I realize I’m a year late on this one but: Love all your testing. Your channel is my first go-to whenever I’m getting ready to buy something to see if there’s a comparison or testing video on it. As for these fasteners, I would be very interested to see how they performed when driven into the side of the grain vs the end grain. After years of building projects I’ve learned that it can be an “inferior” design to drive any fasteners into end grain vs using pocket hole or “toe nailing” to find a way to drive into side grain. It certainly appears in this video that the limiting factor was much more the holding power of the wood than the integrity of the fasteners themselves. Thanks for all the work you put into these videos. It would be awesome to see if you follow this idea. Even a testing of different ways to attach with pocket screws and how they hold up to different angles of forces.
Thanks for the follow-up suggestion.
this 100%. You could tell the wood was failing first. The nails were being pulled out, not sheared. However, it's still a useful test if you want to see how much shearing weight a nail can take before it starts being pulled out. But it's not a valid test for say, "will a BOLT or a NAIL shear first" (ala 'do the ridges make a bolt weaker' like common knowledge says). Still great video and lots of hard work.
As a carpenter I find this information extremely valuable. The shocker for me was that ring shank nails can’t tolerate that much movement. They are my go to fasteners in framing applications. But with this info I’ll be sure to avoid them on very old shifting homes which I work on often. Thanks for all the great content!
You are welcome.
Which one will you use instead?
@@Susan70003
Galvanized if any water or exposure to elements is involved, also with pressure treated. Green vinyl for general framing, ring shanks for particle board underlayment. Reference the building code for size and nailing pattern.
@@danwildhaber8178 Thank you.
How about testing car batteries? Cranking amperage hot and cold, advertised capacity etc.
I would be happy to help Project Farm with designing an electrical measuring solution that would work for pretty cheap, because I would be very interested in that test!
Thank you for the video idea!
Really impressed with all the home brew testing jigs you put together for this!
Thank you!!
Yes, my thought exactly. A lot of effort must go into making a 13 minute video.
man this has to be the most wholesome youtube channel. thank you for all your testing. i also really love all the lawnmower vids, like the piston/head testing. great stuff. its amazing you do all this just for public knowledge , no sponsorship. bravo sir
You are welcome!
You should compile all of your various tests in a book format to sell. I would buy that.
This
I'd pay for a book which had clear instructions as to make each testing rig.
But which publisher and which materials for the constructionr? Should it be hard or paper back? Should I use lenticular printing for the images?
@@markmcconnell8705 Which publisher is the best? We're gonna test that!
@@cefb8923 language is something flexible, its changeable, its sometimes how you like. and he and i like THAT. du klugscheißender vollpfosten
I just want you to have so many more subscribers, man. You really deserve it. That's a lot of hard work put into every video!
Thank you so much 😀
Lu plans to l
This guy is a genius, the test jigs he comes up with and builds are always innovative and ingenious. He always does his tests are always very scientific, and I love how he shows all his statistics he gathers from repeatable tests
Thanks for watching!
Loving your videos more and more. You set your tests up very diligently and provide information for the rest of us, saving us the effort. I consider your tests "proactive" and consumer reviews "reactive" and both augment each other. Anyone can do a consumer review, but what you do, I consider an exceptional service. Keep up the good work! 👌🍻
Thank you!
This channel is amazing. I am so thankful for your work. There is so much time spent in creating content on this channel, and I can't believe you do it all for free for us. THANK YOU.
You are welcome!
can you please do bolts and screws from concrete ? :D
Great test idea! I just did some additional welding on the test jig. I've tested it at 5,000 pounds and it should have plenty of strength!
@@ProjectFarm Please also include masonry and lead sleeve anchors in solid concrete! I anchored a toilet to basement concrete and I wonder how strong the anchor really is compared to the packaging claim.
Thanks for doing this shear test. It makes me feel OK about using some GRK's in a project where I couldn't hammer everywhere.
Tapcons and wedge anchors and Drive its would be an interesting test.
Epoxy set all thread is a common one i see in the welding industry
That's a great idea. I've always suspected those stupid lead wedge anchors were garbage, but who knows? Hilti and Tapcon and Red Head, Oh My!
I'm not an expert, so I'm only asking. Are those tests really testing shear strength?
I'm asking because you were pulling them out, and not actually breaking them.
No it wasn't. Shear strength would be holding it straight in 2 areas and measuring the force it takes to shear it in half.
@@DennisLewanowicz
That was my suspicion. Thanks.
Usually his tests are good, this one is either misleading or just plain garbage.
@@kingduckford I agree with the first part, typically his tests are spot on. This one however was just measuring pull out strength in a different direction.
@@kingduckford I wouldn't say it's garbage. It's still applying a lateral load to the fastener. Maybe like how hydraulic press does it. Steel jig, with a 1" hole in the middle, and use a press (if he has one) that can measure applied force, and press down through the 1" hole until the fastener shears. The screws and nails would need to be able to locked in some how, and it would be shearing it at 2 points. But then I am no expert on any of this. I still think the tests ran give a lot of useful info.
This is INCREDIBLE. Thank you so much for taking the time to come up with a test strategy like this that puts the fasteners on a level playing field! My wife and I installed our kitchen upper cabinets with 3" deckmate screws. I wasn't thinking about the shear strength design of the screws while we were installing things; I know from experience their holding power is incredible, but kitchen cabinets also put a lot of shear force on the screws too. I started thinking about it today and wondered if we should have used something else, like the GRK's. I'm glad to see how well the deckmate screws did, especially that none of them snapped in raw shear tests! We overbuilt and put screws in every 12", so based on these tests I think we're fine. :) Thank you!
Thanks and you are welcome!
Really enjoy watching your videos, I find them very interesting and informative. I try to use your test results to help me make decisions on what to buy where possible, I appreciate the time and effort that's put into these test.
Thank you very much!
I am a welder by trade, and I really like how you made all your own jigs and testing apparatuses. Very thought out and cool.
I see people saying the sheer test is wrong, but in my opinion, it's just a real world application. Yes, it's not textbook, but it tells you valuable information (not garbage like some comments state).
Amazing work!
Thank you very much! I thought about setting up the shear test differently but like you mentioned, it wouldn't provide real world application results.
yes, this is why the rated values are wrong... in an ideal scenario the screw should match the shear force stated on the packaging or website or whatever could be done with some hydraulic shears or something...
in reality the wood will always fail first.
@@ProjectFarm That is true. Wood-frame walls are usually built flat, with two sinkers through the top/bottom plates into the end of each vertical stud. That is a real-world test.
Yes and no, in some real world situations blocking would prevent the pieces of wood from separating. It’s very difficult to set up pure shear tests. Good work overall though and useful values for some minimum applied values as well as for comparative purposes.
Wow! The final test was seriously revealing, and also ingeniously designed! Love the use of hinges as pivoting arms. Great work!
Thank you!
Again, you do so much work to give us these videos, there is no way I could do these videos! I can see how much work you put in you're videos, for us!! I'm not the only one that can see this! I see all you're comments, we all love what you do for us, please keep doing what you do and we will all be here to watch!! Thank you again my friend!
Thanks so much!
I really like your videos. I always think about how much time you put into all the preparation, not to mention the design and set-up of the jigs. Superb!!
Thank you very much!
Look at the difference in damage between the nails and screws, screws definitely rip apart the wood on the way out. Great content. I appreciate all the hard work, effort and time you put into all of your content. #ProjectFarmTestedandapproved
Great point on the damage! Thanks for the positive feedback!
Very much agreed. Informative, real world products being tested for us, with no bias, and great thought/effort being applied. Appreciate this channel!
@TheCheesePlease- What are you talking about? I just made a comment about the difference in damage on the Wood. I'm not sure what got you so worked up. Not really sure I care to know.
Well duh! Nails are smooth screws are screwed. That was pretty obvious before the video was even created.
Given that screws basically can dig into the surrounding area of the hole made. The teeth of the screws help prevent pull-outs occurring. Basically what is happening when a screw isn't taken out properly, is that you're actually reaching a limit to how much force the wood will bear before it breaks and let's go thanks to the cellulose fibers that are held with lignin binder. The stronger that bond the more force needed to break the bond that the fibers and binder have created.
Keep in mind that he also tested them with the screws going with the grain which makes it even stronger bond to break meaning more force needed which we know by the 3rd law of gravity for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction and you don't fuck with physics.
Thanks for another great video Todd! Your testing videos are the best on UA-cam. :-)
Thanks for the positive comment and thank you for your terrific videos that you create! I look forward to them every week and recommend them to everyone.
You and “Engineering Explained” are my go to channels. You both put so much into your presentations. Thank you!
You are welcome!
Awesome! Just the information I was looking for. I've watched and appreciated many of your videos over the years. Just joined your membership on UA-cam. Keep up the good work.
Thank you for supporting the channel through memberships!!
I think you should test to drive the screws and nails cross grain in both boards to get the maximum holding power. When they are going in to the end grain the wood shears so it will slip out of the wood before shearing. Keep up the fantastic testings.
Great point. Thank you!
I really enjoyed the test with nails and screws, I was surprised with the results, I thought the screws would shear before the nails. Thanks again.
Thank you!
It takes a true engineer just to think of the ideology that goes behind these types of test. Demonstrating the practicality in setting up these test is on another level. U do a great job in doing what u do. Cheers!!
I watch a ton of your videos and I love them all. Thank you for the fantastic content :)
You are welcome!
After watching the previous video, and now this one, I have a whole new respect for drywall screws. Loving this channel btw.......
Thank you
First one here Supporting Project Farms! Keep up the good work!
Thank you very much!!!
This was a very well-designed and useful test. You are a genius at devising practical tests on things that people actually use and need to know about. I have one comment on the shear strength test with the fastener being inserted into the center of the 4x4 - as I watched this great test, I noticed that the shackle that held the 4x4 in place was not tightened down after each new piece of 4x4 was inserted for the next test, nor was a wedge used to keep it from moving. This allowed a small amount of motion to occur so that when the device pulled upwards on the fastener, it also pulled the end of the 4x4 up, and the effective pulling angle went from 90 degrees to approximately 85 degrees or less. This converted the test from a true shear strength test to a modified test where the strength being measured was the amount of pull required to remove or break the fastener when being pulled on at an acute angle, but at less than a right angle. Because the pulling force tends to pull the fastener up through the wood fibers until it comes out, thus continually changing the pulling angle, the small movement of the 4x4 inside the loose shackle may make no practical difference, and may more accurately reflect real world shearing conditions, but you are a detail-oriented person who pays attention to such things, and if you have the time, you might want to review the videos and repeat one or two of the shear tests off-camera to determine if the loose shackle affected the results of the test in any way.
A test idea for you, if you haven't already done it, would be to devise a test of the effects of the chemicals used in treating wood on the types of fasteners you tested here. Using bright nails or untreated fasteners in treated wood is a recipe for disaster, and on home construction can result in a house being condemned as unsound and unsafe in only a year or two. The question is how long do these fasteners last without rusting out or losing strength, when used on treated wood.
Thanks again for this video and for all the videos you do. You help more people than you know with the results of your testing.
Ive seen a lot of your videos, I really like how you always come up with good methods to compare different things in a way that is easy to decide and see the potential value of each item. Thanks you for your videos.
You are welcome!
Hey!
I'm a huge fan of the GRK RRS 5/16" x 8" lag screw alternative and I'd love to see a lag bolt vs. lag screw alternative comparison. Thank you for your great videos.
yes please
Thank you!
I was expecting to see what force it took to shear them, but in the end it just resulted in them being pulled out. Gotta admit. I didn't expect these results. And I also gotta say man you come up with some really impressive means of testing obscure things with precision. That bend test rig is pretty awesome.
Thank you!
Thanks so much for making these videos, you answer all the questions I never knew I had. Keep up the good work.
Thanks, will do!
Man, I get amazed on every single video. As said by the others, the effort, scientific approach and final polished video that you bring really make you the best on UA-cam. I don’t buy a screw without checking if you have a video about it first.
Thanks a lot for all the knowledge you provide us.
Thanks and you are welcome!
I think you should also consider testing shear using an "instantaneous" force. Such as would be experienced if something would fall on the fastened joint. You may find this is where some nails do much better that the screws.
Love your videos. Keed up the good work.
Great suggestion! Thank you
You mean an ultimate strength instead of yield test. He'd have to have the ability to increase force more quickly. I don't know if his equipment can do it, but I was thinking the same using Physics terms.
If you spend too much time in the yield, or bending zone, the ultimate or snapping force can be unrealistic.
I was thinking the same thing. A simple pipe with a weight could be the test jig. Drop said weight in pipe at specified height with wood pieces fastened together underneath.
With all the Kyle monster memes bouncing around, I'd love to see you test and confirm which drywall and or sheetrock is the most punch resistant.
lazerlake ugl vs national gysiom
@Nick Lenius lol! Not many are punching them. How about a practical test?
Lmao I am a sub for thr bois as well and for pfi these channels r nite and day from each other but I think project Farm could build a mean Honda
If I had to guess I'd probably say the moisture resistant kind you put in bathrooms. That stuff is heavy/hard as hell.
@olds767 or core board it is about 1.25 thick it is for sound deadening in factory weighs about 140 lbs I did commercial metal stud framing and sheetrock for years core board is hard to cut and just hard to work with
This was awesome, amazed at the testing and the rigs you put together to do the tests.
Thank you!
Love the work this guys puts into his videos... he loves what he does and I love to watch
Thank you very much!
Once again another brilliant test. Very cleaver man indeed.
Tyrone Clarke
A cleaver man? That sounds scary. Do you mean clever?
I am wondering if the results would be different if the fasteners were put in across the grain of the wood, rather than in the end of the grain?
@Mr Brightside Wall studs are installed just that way, by nailing through the top or bottom plate and into the end grain of the stud.
@Mr Brightside Forgive me if English is not your first language, we may not be understanding words the same way. - In reality way, way, way, over 90% of all stud walls are joined by driving two nails through the side of a Plate and into the end grain of a Stud. And, when a wall assembly undergoes uplift or sideloading the joints will experience both tension and shear. So in the States, these wall assemblies and the joints that make them are actually required in the building code to withstand both forces.
Good testing methods. Great video. As a General Contractor here in Kalifornia where building standards are the most stringent, I can say that the most applicable and demonstrative test method as it would apply to earthquake concerns would be the last test. The destructive energy leading to failure is the back and forth movement from an earthquake. No city building department will approve of an all screw construction. One can use screws, as I do too, but they must be in addition to nails and cannot be substituted. One slight exception is the use of screws made by Simpson-Strong Tie but they must be spec'd in the blueprints when submitting plans.
Dearest Farm Boy, you are so clever! I love the shear strength / bend test device you created with door hinges and spike nail levers. AND you painted the whole rig black.You weren't screwin' around! Excellently creative and demonstrative! You nailed it : )
As an engineer who has done comparative and destructive testing, I am extremely impressed with what you did here. I wish I had your creativity and perspective when I was in that area of work. I love watching your videos and seeing which products do and do not llive up to the hype.
Thank you!
I'm curious, from an engineering point of view, do you see any potential issues with the experiment shown here?
I liked this video. Most wall framing will be fastened just like you tested cross grain fastened to end grain but most decking will be cross grain onto cross grain. I would guess that cross grain onto cross grain would put more stress on the nail or screw in a shear test. Put another way I think the wood would be stronger in a cross grain to cross grain situation.
Great point! Thank you
Great test, PF. I ran a handyman service for ten years and used screws exclusively for ramps, decks, porches, fences, and gates. Nary a problem. But when I hammered sinkers into DF tubafores for a work platform to reroof my pump house, it collapsed the third time I climbed it. I was standing there in the middle with a package of asphalt tabs when it started slowly bending over. I shifted the roofing onto the roof and rode it down, laughing all the way. Screws fixed it and the bag of sinkers is slowly rusting away with disuse. Deck screws are my go-to hardware fastener. When building fences, I showed the client a board fastened with a 1-5/8" pneumatic installed nail, a 2-1-2" galv nail, and a 1-5/8" deck screw. With one whack of my elbow, I could knock the nailer board off, loosen the nailed board, and not touch the screwed board. They all chose the screws and paid a little bit extra for the hardware costs and time. Screwed projects are also quick to repair. Shearing just isn't a factor in well built construction.
Thanks! Thanks for sharing.
Great job designing the 3 different tests! Love your vids.
Thank you!
Excellent video... Thanks!
I'm curious though about the Back & Forth test. It's a great comparison but in real life you would never see a fastener put in that situation, bend it 45° and expect it to hold. I wonder how many times you would have to move it back and forth by only a degree or two to get it to break.
The thing about nails is, don't they get a tighter fit the longer they're in? It displaces the wood when driven in and when let to rest over a few days the wood swells and presses against the nail? Or am I wrong?
...... screws do the same thing. And if wood is outside it absorbs moisture and expands which also helps hold.
Very nice video and testing. I am a retired aerospace R&D engineer, and we did very similar testing on composite and titanium joining processes, like fasteners, welding, and bonding, but with better test equipment, and for a lot more money.
One observation, someone might have already asked. You said that the screws were "brittle", but I doubt if the metal screws are made of would be called brittle. It must take a lot of ductility to form a screw shape.
I might suggest what you are calling "brittle" is really a stress concentration. Anytime a fastener, or any material carrying load, has a notch, a hole, or even a scratch, it's fatigue properties are degraded. Whenever there is a geometric disruption, the loads will get concentrated at that point. For instance, the general stress concentration of a hole in a metal sheet is 3.0, meaning the stress is multiplied by 3.
Thanks for the feedback.
I really appreciate this! I had watched an old video and compared to that, this is so much more methodical and well designed. Thank you and congrats on your great video.
Thank you!
You should test how much top end weight a 2x4, 2x6, 2x8, 2x10 can handle before breaking or flexing to a certain point
Thank you for the video idea!
I'm amazed the screws performed as well as they did (and even better)! I've always heard they'd shear like crazy... that's not the case. Good to know. (I guess it also depends on the quality of them)
Thank you! Great point on quality too. Really cheap screws will sometimes break during installation. Those can't be trusted
Enjoyed the test setup. Nice job stapling the fastener to the side of the board being tested so the test videos could be confirmed.
Thank you! I'm rebuilding several sets of 2x4 shelves that the previous builder assembled with deck screws. They used a ridiculous amount of screws in random patterns and angles that probably did more harm than good. I wanted to find the real-world shear expectations of these screws, but online searches were hit and miss - an engineering forum post where someone "did the math" claimed the screws will only hold 167lbs, while some spec sheets claim 1300+ pounds. Then I found this video! Excellent work! It's a great example of fastener performance "off paper" and outside a sterile laboratory environment.
You are welcome! Thanks for sharlng.
I’d love to see a test of various lag screw holding ability. I use them to hang shelves from my garage ceiling and am curious as to how much weight it takes them to pull out.
Awesome videos!
Thank you for the video idea!
How about testing construction adhesives like liquid nails vs it's competition ?
Thank you for the video idea!
I'm always impressed by how methodical your tests are
Thank you very much!
I know this is 4 years old but I had sort of a related experience using deck screws to hold up weight. I built 8 four tier free standing shelves using full sheets of 5/8" OSB and 2x4 lumber.
I built 4x8 frames of 2x4's sitting vertical, with a cross member every 2ft, sort of a ladder frame with OSB screwed to the top side with the same 3" deck screws that I used to assemble the frames.
Each of the four shelves were held up by 10 2x4's, two on each corner. and two in the middle. A 48" length of 2x3 was used to place each shelf and give it some added under support. Each shelf was held by 10 screws per corner and five each in the middle on each side. The bottom shelf was 1" off the concrete floor, the rest were spaced roughly the space of a 5 gallon bucket. They were used to store misc auto parts, all placed in buckets with the tops on them. Each shelf got roughly 800 lbs on it. One, which was against the wall, got loaded with cast iron cylinder heads, about 2,000 lbs per shelf, maybe more. On that shelf I added a few supports in the middle between the shelves in the middle to prevent the OSB from sagging between the 2x4's if it got really humid in there.
All was fine for about 8 months, then I walked in there one day and one shelf had collapsed all around, and all the 2x4's were completely detached, every last deck screw had sheared off, none pulled out, all were broke off clean and flush. The second shelf, had collapsed only on one end, and only three shelves on that end fell down onto the next. The other end was fine.
A third shelf was fine, as was the one holding the cylinder heads. I cleaned up the mess,
removed the screws, then put the shelf back up using both a few screws to hold it in place and then I used two 1/2" bolts in each connection.
They were fine for the next few years.
The shelf with all the cylinder heads on it is still standing, untouched and showing no signs of any fatigue. The other day, after finding a bag of bolts I had bought for the other shelves, I drilled and added one bolt to each corner in every shelf just in case.
What I did notice is that although they were all built at the same time, I ran out of screws half way through and went back to get another box. The first batch of screws were flat black, but also marked deck screws with the same skew number, the second batch, a 10lb bucket, of the same supposed type, were slightly shinier. They were coated and marked safe for PT wood, but this was framing lumber and indoors at that. None of the screws were corroded, they sheered off clean as if cut with a bolt cutter. There was no bending or tearing, just a clean break.
Fast forward a few years, I used some of those same screws to replace a piece of stockade fence in the back yard, (not PT, just plain fir), we had a 70 mph windstorm last month, and that panel, which was held on with 24 of those screws to three posts, blew down shearing every last screw. They were up there about a year. But again, they were not rusty, they just broke off.
I did my own test, using three 2x4's, all 10" long, screwed together in a three layer stack, with the middle sticking out 2" on one end. I stood that up in my 25 ton press, which has a pressure gauge on the ram. I did the same with some OLD 10p nails, and again with some 3" drywall screws. I also went back and bought a 1 lb box of the same#10 x 3" deck screws. Each stack had 10 screws or nails driven in from each side. 20 in all. I used a 1" plate on both sides so the end of the boards didn't split. I then built a box using two pieces of tubing to fit the 3 pack of 2x4's into with minimal side clearance to prevent any pull out.
The deck screws from the bucket, gave at 771 lbs of force
the deck screws from the box gave at 1,487 lbs of force
the drywall screws gave way at 1,101 lbs
the old 10 penny nails gave at 2,200 lbs, finally splitting the wood and traveling along the grain of the middle board.
Basically the wood gave way before the nails failed.
All the screws eventually sheered off flush.
None spread open as to have relied on the steel tube to prevent them from pulling apart.
None failed explosively, all sort of just gave and it was over.
There's definitely a difference in the screws in the different containers.
None have any PT rating but all are marked 'outdoor use'.
I did notice that there's an American flag on the small boxes but not on the bucket label.
The screws though look identical even under a magnifying lens.
What I don't get is why the heavier shelf, never gave way, its loaded five times heavier and it lasted for years like that. It is against a wall but not attached, and the wall is no more than a free standing dividing wall separating the shop from the storage area.
I had used screws in the beginning with the thinking that although they're not as strong, enough of them should handle what I needed them to handle and i needed the corners joints to stay firmly connected if the shelves sagged over time.
With the bolts, they're all still standing but the load has been slowly reduced over the years as they've been repurposed to hold lighter items.
Thanks for sharing.
Why did you test them in end grain? I think you'd be able to push the fasteners to further limits if you used the face instead.
Great video as always and something I've always wondered.
Thank you for the constructive feedback!
Very correct observation. Also - Fastening in end grain will highlight the structural variability of the different pieces of wood and the positioning of the fasteners. Did one fastener pass through one or more harder grain lines while another only passed through the soft wood in-between hard grain-lines. I think this pretty much invalidates the results. I think you need to do a "do-over" with face / face positioning. Also, it appeared that you used a single grade of lumber which is pretty consistent. but I think a better test would be plywood face to face. Thanks for the great videos.
Yes, unfortunately, end grain fastening, as was done here, is more a test of withdrawal resistance than shear. The reason for that is end-grain withdrawal failure happens well before fastener shear failure. Still useful info, but leaves the shear strength question unresolved.
I'll make the guess that the screws will shear before the nails, since some of the metal is lost in the milling of the screw threads.
In germany it's not even allowed to use this kind of joints in supporting structures on builds, because the nails or screws only have contact to a few wood fibers and if the wood splits just a bit due to drying, the whole joint may fail.
If using screws for wood construction use the green chromate finished construction screws. Hex head, 150 mm easily available and EXCELLENT holding power even in end grain! I swear by them and never been let down.
I'd like to see the same tests with the nails/screws in side grain rather than end grain. I've found that screws hold very well in side grain, but nails and screws don't hold as well in end grain.
Thank you!
Precisely, which is why when you have to fasten to end grain you drill at right angles to the grain and insert a dowel which takes the thread of the screw across the grain.
Knockdown furniture makers copy this with a metal dowel threaded for a set screw.
Great point and I would like to see this test using Aussie hardwood, I would suggest Grey Gum or Iron Bark.
Carpenter here. Yep. I had I stop watching. End grain has less than half the holding strength. There is a shear rating on nails and screws because they will actually shear when properly installed. These tests only showed how poor end grain is for fastening.
@@kristofferbeder it bothered you so much you had to stop watching because of the misinformation? I was thinking since every test was done from the end grain that the results were consistent. If you did watch until the final results, what do you think would be different?
Great job, having fun and getting informed at the same time, keep it up 👍
Thanks, will do!
The galvanized spiral shank are used along the Gulf of Mexico for stick construction, we put two nails in place of one wherever we could. Most walls are hurricane proof, roofs however are a different story. Interesting topic and test thank you..
You are welcome!
did anyone notice that most of the time is the wood failing and not the screws/nails ?
Wood vs metal.
Correction: Large wood with low concentration factor vs small metal with large concentration factor
Harder would would easily shear weak screws in this test, despite metal having a much higher tensile strength
Yes, exactly! I was going to ask if the wood could vary as well. Trees can be weaker or stronger depending on how much rain and sun are received.
The main problem here was him using the end grain of the wood. It is so much weaker.
Would be nice to see the actual shear strength of each of the nails and screws. Do you think you could redo these tests, but not rely on wood to immobilize? I stopped this vid after realizing I was seeing a test of the wood strength more that the nail/screw strength.
good tests and i loved the video but testing for sheer strength on screws is not tested cross grain to end grain because when you screw into the end grain (parallel with the grain of the wood) you have very little strength. I would actually love to see a test done with all cross grain fastenings.
I am a Shipwright (shipyard carpenter) and have been using the torx head coated #10s for years to build working platforms and blocking/bracing for heavy industrial applications, last year i went to a new shipyard where they used drywall screws for the same applications and watched platforms fail under shock loads over and over again until it became a safety issue and i suggested we switch fasteners which completely solved their issues.
Great video!
We bought a cool house but it was 30 years old and needed a lot of work. Everything was built with nails in the early eighties. We tore out the carpet before construction. As I walked through the house over the next few weeks, I could hear the terrible annoying squeaking of the floorboards. Before we put in new carpet, we put down about six hundred screws and pulled as many nails as we could find. The result was beautiful silence. We owned that house for seven years and never a squeak.
Thanks for sharing.
Watched the other video about 15 minutes ago... left a comment about wanting to see sheer strength... and here it is. You do the best testing.
Thanks so much!
Hey could you try spax screws I get them at home Depot and I love using them I use the 3 4 and 5 inch
Trey Elam I love my spaxes too
Spax are the best I have found. I drove some stainless steel spax screws into the maple legs of my workbench. I used pilot holes. Came up a few screws short, so went to a local screw supplier and got their stainless steel screws. Several broke, even with pilot holes. Been using Spax as much as possible ever since.
Agreed, cheap and seemingly awesome
Can you test if plus and premium gas really is better than regular.
Thank you for the video idea!
It isn't. It is a measure of ethanol mixed with the gasoline. Use whichever type is recommended in your owner's manual.
Informative and interesting as always... You have a way to show the extremes to which most everday used items in my world will withstand before failure.
Thank You for all the insightful wisdom to aid in making decisions when it come to repair materials.
P.S. please keep them comming
I absolutely love your content and thank you for all of your independent and very well thought out testing scenarios. Some of these fastener testing results were a bit surprising and for years I have been wanting to see a test like this. A bit surprising to see drywall screws doing so well in the pull out test without snapping. Thank you again!
Thanks and you are welcome!
When I see a video from Project Farm, I watch it.
When is camp Project Farm starting!?
Lol, Thank you!
I would like to see a comparison of using multiple wood screws vs using a single lag screw.
Great suggestion! Thank you
Do it!@@ProjectFarm
Good suggestion. Would like to see that as well.
Ohh yeah! You could toss in a carriage bolt too. I know it’s not always possible to have all three options in a given application, but still good to know what would be best.
The commitment this guy constantly shows is incredble. Not a single bad video, and not a shred of dishonesty involved. The biggest cred imaginable to the biggest MVP.
Thanks so much!
Wow, I'm a carpenter and now have to re-think my position on screws sheer strength, and I also think more municipalities need to do a review on sheer strength on GRK and deck screws for house framing! I've never been about the cheapest, but the strongest!
Thanks for sharing.