To be highly skilled requires many hours of FOCUSED prayer, FOCUSED practice and INTENSE study - working a full time job, plus doing side gigs robs musicians of FOCUSED TIME that could otherwise be spent catering specially to the house of worship and serving in excellence. If your church will invite a guest speaker, singer etc and compensates them for their TIME and SERVICE, but never invest back into you and your skillset, they are out of order! Yes, serve God with your gifts, but understand that money allows you time away from hustling other side gigs to focus and "perfect" & properly cultivate your giftings, talents and worship unto God.
When my son was younger, he was commissioned to play for a church concert for $200. After spending hours learning 8 songs, 4 rehearsals and a 2 hour concert……they handed him a check for $75. We were told that the Pastor’s WIFE decided $200 was too much🙄. I was LIVID! Needless to say, Mama got involved and a few days later my son received the rest of his money. The next year, they asked him to play AGAIN……..his fee was MUCH higher and it was paid up front.
Dont call it SERVICE if you REQUIRE finances. Its good the church considers it, but whetever you do, do it unto the Lord. I serve God fulltime but dont get paid. I know what it means to spend your own money and time. I am a minister who is called to serve.
If you get your vision cleared from this world, you'll see all the work you do is for God and you can't care less about money. Seek Gods kingdom first! Everything else he will take care of. If you can't manage to pay the bills because you are spending so much time with practicing your music, maybe it isn't God's plan for you. What are the motives to play in Church? Really liking music? Honour of men? Not being able to say no when asked? Please let in everything to serve God be your motive! And the sentence: never invest back to you? Are you even listening to the gospel they are preaching? Isn't that investing back in to you? And if it feels like your church isn't investing in to you, what are you doing it for? Are you really seeking treasure's in heaven?
Except he said that ushers and the people counting the money out the back shouldn't be paid. It doesn't matter if they're skilled or unskilled, aren't they still workers?
You taking that out of context.....music isn't a requirement for church services.....nobody is supposed to profiting off God.....if you love God then you will gladly give that service to Him...
God bless you brother i appreciate you breaking it down and the last thing you said if they want to bless you with an offering that’s wonderful but what if it’s a church thats small and can’t pay you that money are you gonna deny them? May God reciever all the glory always❤❤❤
I just question how u gage what is worth paying I’m a drummer but I don’t consider my self good but I can keep a beat with any musician and play any song and type of song and I’m good at dynamic’s and feeling the way ppl go but I’ve had to reduce my time at the church from one rehearsal and 3 performances with atleast 6 songs per and 2 surprise songs per a week to just two shows no rehearsals a week cause I can’t afford gas I’ve had to buy stick thrones heads keys and other stuff for this church and also help run sound media and I also played the bass for them until the drummer left and I can read music as I played in high school marching band four instruments and sing with many years of experience am I good no but I think I’m worth something
At the very least, even for the worst musicians, the church should provide the necessary musical equipment... even if no salary is included, supplies are essential!
Uh oh you stirring the pot again and I love it! 1. If churches don't wanna pay, train up the youth in your church until they get good enough to demand market value for their gift. 2. Specialize people get paid, volunteers get appreciated. 3. Musicians, hear the maturity of KC when it comes to money. He started on a low end, then he got paid well, and now his quality of life allows him to just recerve 100% donation. Know your worth, but be caught chasing your assignment rather than the highest dollar. Your legacy & inheritance is there.
If you are going to train them you still need to pay if the play my son get on I pay him with my money you play you need to pay I adjust my pay according to the size of the church. I feel in all the time. Big church 200 small 100 to the low of 50.
Well, I've been playing for over 20years and I never ask for pay. I'm ok serving God with my talent BUT THAT IS MY CHOICE. GOD HAD A PROPER WELFARE PLAN FOR MUSICIANS AND THOSE WHO SERVED AT THE ALTAR. I think every church should have that plan for her musician . What I understand from this video is that you should create an environment to favour the spiritual focus of the musician. Over here in Nigeria, we always have a way to handle our matters😊
@@GaxtonOkobah What you doing is fine.....as long as you dont believe yourself above or better than those who demand pay...... as soon as you think this way....all blessings are lost...
I play drums for a medium sized church and have been blessed to simply serve. Never thought about any type of compensation. There was some benifits though like getting to know the church staff better, getting recognized in the congragation, thus making friendships a lot easier. What a blessing to serve on stage and experience the presence of God while worshipping.
Then there is the majority of us who work a full-time job while trying to be highly skilled, all while raising a family. I can confirm that it’s the most frustrating thing for someone who is a musician at heart!
That is why you pray and ask God to strengthen you. When you minister in your craft, all types of problems will come your way. Especially if God chose you for this ministry. The bible says the enemy will come to kill,steal, and destroy. But before you minister, I encourage you to pray and ask God to strengthen you so you can be faithful in your service. Its not by your own might or power but thru God who strengthens you.
@@HybridMusiciansThe text you are using is being used wrongfully. The text you are referring to is in James 2:14-26. It speaks of "Faith without works is dead." Is there a difference of Work and Works? Works is a demonstartion of your Faith. In other words, your action based on faith. Example: Abraham was ready and obedient to God to sacrifice his son and he was commended for that. In your case, it is the act of playing with the church. That is your spiritual act of worship. It maybe true you need to work at your craft and continue learning, but the act of playing for the Lord is your 'works'.
I was an unpaid mucian at church and it was extremely expensive for me to perfect my craft. So much that l had to persue another career. I agree with you 100%
The same to me , I work from Monday to Saturday and I find no time to do practice and eventually when you get to play, they want more from me as a drummer and it's embarrassing. this all comes to no facilitation
all musicians should be paid....not just the highly skilled.....Maybe paid less..... but still paid. LBJ makes the most money on his team.....but the guys at the end of the bench who never plays in a big game......put in some practice work.....and still get paid.....albeit much less than the highly skilled players.
I worked for a large church in the media and all the musicians that played services, special events, and such were paid. It's a matter of respect and the pay wasn't fantastic but good enough that they wanted the gigs. They were all working pro so it was some extra money for an easy gig. They all were also members of the church. We tried to make the gig as easy possible for them. In general no rehearsals except for big special events they all had great ears. The sound check before service was when most learned the tune for the guest artist at each service. If more time was needed they would all go to one of the utility rooms to go over the tune(s) before the praise part of service started. The music in the service was placed where so they didn't have to stay on the stage during main part of service. They played praise then not long after that the guest artist would do their first tune. After that the band box was set so they could slide out and go outside where we had coffee and snacks for people working the service. The music assistant would stay inside and when she notice the Rev was winding up she would go and tell the band time to come back in and slide into the band box. Band would play for the guest artist second tune, then play the offertory, and remain on stage till the end of service. The Rev's wife was the Choir Director and was a Jazz artist herself in past and that is why the musicians were treated respectfully. We had a list of musician that wanted to play and we rotated through them to get them all a chance to make some money and also keep from burning out if they played all three sunday services and Wednesday night service. So yes church musicians should be paid it is a job and it requires a certain level of proficiency that takes years to develop and need to be compensated for. Anyone who works for the church deserves to get paid. I started at the church as a volunteer being in service to the church. As time went on they saw I had skills they needed regularly and I was hired part-time. As things progress I became a full time media employee.
PERFORMING OR SERVING? When I play professionally (at a club or party) I get paid for performing but when I play for church I offer it up as a thanksgiving to my Lord for allowing me to be able to serve Him with the gifts He has given me. Maybe that’s the difference . Are we performing for our Lord Jesus Christ or are we serving Him?
I play for free at my church. The church shows it's appreciation though. Playing for free is what I wanted. I can focus on the music and bringing in the Spirit. I play guitar.
I'm a pastor and worship leader at our church, and ever since I was a teenager, I've never felt in my heart the desire to get paid for my ministry. I freely received it and freely give it back to our God. The same applies for music lessons. I personally don't feel right getting paid for my ministry as a pastor or musician. The way I see it is that if the local church wants to pay their ministers, they can. But because the church agrees that that is how they want to function. The Apostle Paul made a case for teaching the church to take care of its ministers, but he also preferred not to receive money for his ministry because he didn't want it to affect his testimony. So, although he could and had a right to, he chose not to for sake of the gospel. Money is a sensitive topic for many and a stumbling block for others whether they give or receive. As far as the levites are concerned, they actually had no other choice. God set them aside specifically to minister. The situation is different between us and them. Their "payments" were actually more of a sustenance. The nation of Israel was expected to provide for them via their offerings and tithes. We can have land inherentance for example, they couldn't. But like them, our best inherentance is God, not money or anything we can buy with money. He will provide for us. We should be happy with what we have and don't have. Give thanks to God in any and every situation we find ourselves in.
Respect Pastor. I agree with certain points you made. Where I disagree is that we are different that the Levites. As a gospel musician, I believe I’m required to return to God my gifts, and perfect my gifts. Similar to the 10, 5 and 1 talents. I feel as if your saying that I have the right to bury my talent and be named a wicked servant. Let me know if I’m wrong. Now, real talk - those same skilled players oftentimes end up playing in places other than church because they need to eat, keep a roof, maintain a vehicle, maintain their instruments, and the list goes on. What if the church were to complete for their services rather than them using their talent in the world. In a way, that church becomes a stumbling block if they are able to pay, but choose not to. To be completely transparent, I play for free at my church. But I’m a novice at my instrument. But I’ve been blessed to play with some great players who I learn from.
@lbranom3310 we were given our musical gifts so that we could exclusively worship God with them. I don't feel right playing music that is not worshipping God. Much less to make it my career. The way I see it is I can't serve two masters. Consider this, how would it look if the High Priest in the Tabernacle had a side job worshipping other gods to make ends meet? He would utterly profane the Tabernacle. Now, God deserves OUR best worship, and we should strive to perfect our skills. BUT God never demanded this from us. So saying that we should get paid because we spend time practicing and studying to be better musicians so that we could present a better performance has nothing to do what God ask from us as musicians or from the church. Worshipping in spirit and truth can actually be done without music to begin with. It's a privilege that we have to minister before God and to lead the worship, not a right. Now, the talent parable has nothing to do with gifts such as music. A "talent" was worth years of wages. Some estimate about 20 years' worth for each talent. That's why, towards the end, the master rebukes the servant for not putting the talent in the bank so that he could collect interest from the talent. The parable has more to do with multiplying what God has asked us to do. Spread the gospel, make more disciples. Multiply as believers and not hide the truth of the gospel. We, as believers, are like the levites when it comes to purpose only. To serve before God. Applying the payment aspect of it doesn't hold water because ALL believers are now priests before God in a sense. Does that mean that every believer should get paid? Or if you want to get paid like the levites, are you willing to get circumcised as well? Because they were required to do so. How about keeping the Sabbath? Yeah, it's like comparing apples to oranges. I'm not the best musician in the world, far from it. I'm not even the best I could be, but when I worship God, I try my best to do it with all my heart, and I think that is all God asks for. You can be the fanciest musician, with the greatest licks and arrangements, but if you do it to receive glory from others instead of God, then God isn't interested. As musicians, we are very susceptible to being conceited and self-centered. Vain. But if our heart is in the right place and for the right reasons, then the simplest arrangement will be like a pleasing aroma before God.
@@lbranom3310 It's a personal choice to make. It's okay to step down from the worship team if you want to use your musical skills for events or gigs to support yourself financially. The only thing you might miss is not just your musical talent, but also the feeling of God's presence when you play. Some churches don't pay musicians because their finances depend on tithes and offerings. However, we can't force members to give, but we can teach them about the importance of tithes and offerings and let them decide whether or not to contribute. Lastly, if you have a true understanding of God's word and the importance of worshiping Him, then you should understand why churches may or may not pay their members for their service. However, if you don't understand or accept this concept, it comes down to your personal decision.
Amen. I play CCM so I do it for free and I'm also retired so I have an income. You're right Gospel is much harder than CCM but not unlearnable and not hard to learn either. I just don't like gospel music. Even CCM musicians should be paid, they still have to buy equipment, practice and be at rehearsals and service all Sunday too.
Church musicians should get paid or their service considered a part of their overall giving... as in a part of their tithe... I was in a situation where I was a volunteer church musician doing services WEEKLY without being paid and expected to give my tithe financially as well as was treated like they were doing me a favor by letting me on the worship team and not like I was doing them a favor by volunteering so much. I had to pay for my instruments. I had to prepare for service every week that I did not get paid for and this took time away from focusing on doing my music as a profession. Professionalism was expected. The pastor and his wife were NOT people that had our family’s back. We were struggling financially. The pastor’s wife went on a vacation out of the country while my family was struggling financially to replace our dishwasher. Yet I was advised that my giving was not to be considered in place of the tithe giving. We were short at the end of the year almost exactly what we tithed to the pastor and his wife so they could live their posh lifestyle. Ugh. I will never do this again. If I was considered a rank amature where they were doing me a favor by letting me on the worship team, why even put me on that team! God deserves the best! Yes... musicians should be paid. I realize not all churches can swing this but if they can they should.
I think if you playing at a church, they could at least cover servicing of instruments. Like drum skins and sticks or guitar strings and cables. More so for part-time musicians. Full-time musicians should probably get paid if the fund are there. Anyways, great video KC
Thanks KC. I've played all my life for free. But I've found it challenging sometimes. There was a church I played for in a village that didn't have a keyboard so I came with mine. I didn't have a car so I'd get a taxi. At the close of service, members would jump in their cars and drive off while I waited for my uber, standing at the gate with my keyboard...lol. I did get a ride once but no one ever talked about how I managed. And o...I was a student in a nearby city...just wanted to help out. But the least I expected was at least a ride back into town. I agree with you KC.
I should add I never complained. But I agree with KC. Not everyone will like to hear it but he's right. The purpose for it is what really matters....FOCUS!
KC, this video was absolutely wholesome. Thank you. You touched on the economics of the matter too. Few people in a church can play the piano well and play in every key without transposing. Fewer people can play the organ well and with their feet. If nothing else, this is a matter of basic economics. The DEMAND is HIGH for excellent musicians or even relatively decent musicians. But the SUPPLY to meet this demand is LOW. Not everyone can play and more importantly, not everyone loves Jesus Christ. When demand is high for something but the supply to meet that demand is low, the supplier (musician in this case) should not only be paid but be paid very well.
Kc please loud it ! Drummer are really going through a lot in churches, when their accessories got damaged, nobody cares, they want drummer to keep managing since the snare drum is still sounding even if the kick is no longer working.😀😀😀
My take is this: IF a church has the funds, they should pay the musicians. Churches shouldn’t be straining the members for funds for musicians. Receiving remuneration for our skills is ideal. Yet, when that can’t happen (e.g. small churches), we should be willing to serve the Lord with ALL our heart freely. We shouldn’t let the desire for money change our church attendance or worship: that is when it has become the LOVE of money. And that is evil. Btw KC, I see u preacher. 1. Do u believe that CCM musicians should be paid? 2. Can u do a video about how to get hired and keep a job? Can u also discuss what skill level we need to be at b4 we we can work full time on keys?
This. The amount of time spent on practising and preparing material for a service/mass is enormous. And the time off from work, or from other events is a sacrifice. In the end, little stayed.
As a church musician myself. I kinda disagree. I believe musicians should be payed as "church staff" and not to just rock up to a rehearsal and play songs on Sunday and preacher chords. The levites didn't prepare privately away from the temple. So the musician should, in my opinion basically have a "9-to-5" at the church they play at. Spending hours at the church preparing for the Sunday service, training up the volunteer musicians, improving the overall structure of worship at that church so that there are no distractions etc. You should be more than rocking up to play on Sunday and rehearsing on a Thursday night.
I've discovered I'm a much better organizer and have better time management at home. the commute to and from church + other social distractions is a low payout for my attention and level of FOCUS. Especially with Zoom and Planning Center - home is a perfect setup for me...
I couldn’t agree more. The Levites also prepped the sacrifices, cleaned the temple, meditated on the word, and further in service of the church. I’m a drummer and I worked 10yrs to get to the skill that I’m at, but I also keep my gear clean and I help clean the stage and when they need help in anything in the church I’m there! This video has a very clear worldly view. The entire time advocating for making this just a job. Being a worshipper is NOT a job. It’s a ministry. You wanna make money as a musician, go play a rock concert. I focus (without getting paid) because I love playing and I love my service to the Lord. This is terrible for the new people starting in worship because it’s shifting their focus to pay rather than ministry. Ministry does not equal business.
Ministry is a sacrifice, if it’s “comfortable” then you’re doing it right. God didn’t call you to a life of comfort. As a matter of fact, 11 of the 12 apostles died as martyrs. If you don’t want that then you gotta choose a different religion
@@matiasgastou I don't think you understand the points made in the video, else you won't make such statements. Because of your choice of words and tone, I can say your comment about the video is unfortunate. You can have a different view concerning the matter in question, but you cannot run down his views like that because he equally made a lot of sense, both from a spiritual point of view and a logical point of view. I suggest you watch the video again, this time, with an open mind, to be able to well understand the points made. Thank you.
As a professional musician, I have Been serving in church bands giving 100% week to week four years. I don’t just show up, I rehearse I go over everything making sure every single detail is excellent. It wore me out. Getting paid would make a massive difference
I was at a pastor's conference once and heard the speakers say the most awful thing, both huge mega churches had moved to non paid musicians, that's fine, it was the reason one of them gave that just took me out, I had to go talk to him afterward, he said, he looked up and saw the folks playing, and all the people that were around, and thought why are we paying them for this opportunity? This kind of exposure! - I'm like, does that logic work for you Pastor? Why is the church paying you to speak to so many people, you should be happy for the exposure! To date I haven't returned to that conference.
I have a different opinion to most of you. Can I ask you guys why you go to church? Is it to play instruments? What does church mean to you? I used to play bass at another church after my church and I would see how they would literally take the money from what we given that day. I told them don't pay me. It's an honour and privilege to serve with my gifts and all the good and effort I've put in is nothing compared to Christ's sacrifice. Guys I implore you. Don't do God's work grudgingly. Don't worry about what the guest speaker is getting. Stop seeking for appreciation from men. Seek the Kingdom, God will reward you. If you get paid cool, if you don't cool. Now I'm in a place where that money I would have got paid for in that other church is nothing to me. Find a church where you can develop your spirit man. Where you can grow. This is more important. Get other gigs in between if you want.
@@prettysimplemusic ok let's say you play for free but because you made this video it means you are also looking for payment, your playing is not from the heart
Simple truth, I always tell young musicians, become skillful at your craft so pastors have no choice but to pay you. Personally, I don’t take a salary anymore, I’ll do my best to be available for Gods service.
English: I understand your point perfectly, and in fact I agree that a FULL-time musician is paid for his service, as long as it is a great church, ALREADY ESTABLISHED, with a local, many faithful (enough to support the work ) and all that stuff. But I'm telling you, I'm from Colombia (I don't know if this happens in the United States). Here there are many churches that are just beginning, with fewer than 20 faithful (in the case of my pastors, the work is sustained, and I'm sure of that, mostly because of them), where there are hardly any musicians (in the church that I attend we are only 1 guitarist, me the pianist and a voice, and I and the guitarist sing too). My question is this... Are you sure my pastors could pay me even one Sunday service? Are we sure that the ministries that are just emerging even have the possibility of paying a musician? I assure you not... On the other hand, here there are many musicians who are paid and are not even full-time (many times they are not even Christians, although that depends on the pastors). Even if I had that possibility of getting paid even if I wasn't a full time musician, I would choose to do it for free... Only for God. Although obviously if they want me there all day I would demand payment. Español: Entiendo tu punto perfectamente, y de hecho estoy de acuerdo en que a un músico de tiempo COMPLETO se le pague por su servicio, siempre y cuando sea una gran iglesia, YA ESTABLECIDA, con un local, muchos fieles (los suficientes para sostener la obra) y todas esas cosas. Pero te lo digo yo, que soy de Colombia (no sé si esto pase en Estados Unidos). Acá hay muchas iglesias que apenas están comenzando, con menos de 20 fieles incluso (en el caso de mis pastores, la obra se sostiene, y estoy seguro de eso, más que todo por ellos), en las que apenas hay músicos (en la iglesia a la que asisto solo somos 1 guitarrista, yo el pianista y una voz, y yo y el guitarrista cantamos también). Mi pregunta es la siguiente... ¿Estás seguro de que mis pastores podrían pagarme tan siquiera un servicio dominical? ¿Estamos seguros de que los ministerios que apenas están surgiendo, tienen tan siquiera la posibilidad de pagarle a un músico? Yo te aseguro que no... Por otro lado, acá hay muchos músicos a los que se les paga y ni siquiera son de tiempo completo (muchas veces ni siquiera son cristianos, aunque eso ya depende de los pastores). Incluso si yo tuviera esa posibilidad de que me pagaran aunque no fuera un músico de tiempo completo, escogería hacerlo gratis... Sólo para Dios. Aunque obviamente si me quieren allí todo el día exigiría un pago.
Depends if you are really worshipping, or just a musician. God gave you a skill. Use it for worship and don’t expect payment. Sounds egotistical and selfish to me to take payment for worshipping God.
Your gifts and talents come from YAH! Humble yourself and no Elohim giveth and He taketh away. Lucifer was head of the choir in heaven, this is exactly where he is deceiving many members in church. Shalom
There was no levite musicians. It was a priestly position. Period. That doesn't mean they were "skilled" Musicians. However a man is worthy of his wages.
This was an awesome video with lots of great points. I have been struggling with this same thing as a church drummer. You opened up my eyes to a lot and backed it with scripture too.
It's a topic that needs to be addressed more. It's great people want to volunteer in the church. They should; however, it should not be expected to never pay for work in God's House! That's just unbiblical! A worker is worth his wages!
FYI most church musicians are not professional but did learn how to play in church and using the church instruments. Most churches are the size of store fronts or slightly larger and don't have the money to play.
Seriously? This is still questioned? At least make it challenging for a musician to remain in place. Something is better than nothing. Zero compensation is insulting.
PREACH BROTHER, PREACH‼️ Levites and Minstrels have to be taught the meaning of ministry but they should be paid. The Bible says a workman is worthy of its hire!
Levites are not the right group to compare in the OT if your going to compare to NT. The levites ministry is compleyed after what Christ accomplished and no longer needed for today. We need to be like David with a contrite heart. Thats why we worship the way we do. Our worship is out of our heart and not like the temple. If you want to copy that go to greek orthodox churches
Dont feel bad......If they started paying you...the control would only increase. "What...you came in with the wrong color tie today? Im docking your pay $50!" true story! But this is mainly for people who grew up in, or got their musical start in the church.
Then you're probably not doing it for the Lord. i say "probably" because I don't know you personally. The 12 disciples left everything they had to follow Jesus. Did he pay them anything? He demanded a lot from them, but did they leave him because He was paying them nothing? Apostle Paul has a side job to sustain his needs, but he does not demand payment from his ministry either, which is more demanding than your ministry, btw. If the church pays you, be thankful. If they don't, then what? Is all that effort not worth it for serving the Lord? Did the disciples and early Christians demand payment for their persecution? Don't focus on material things. Focus on serving the Lord.
Great talking points, and I agree w/ your view on this! In fact, it’s a topic that has been on my mind ever since I first started playing in church about 25 years ago. And most churches do NOT pay, and it’s been a massive challenge for me to deal with, cope with and live with. I could go on, but will just say this video was very helpful and I think it also needed to be laid out clearly.. like you did. God bless, and peace✌️
So you should be paid according the time you spend to do something for your church? Nobody but you and your pastor put the stress on it, God just want humble and true heart worhship him, even with hands and lips only.
This issue isn’t musicians being paid, the issue is the LACK OF COMMITMENT, LACK OF THE SPIRIT you say they have. Many musicians don’t even wanna rehearse to prepare for the things you’re referring to so, its bigger than the money part. Levites weren’t just musicians, they were singers too! Blessings to you👍🏾👍🏾
If you don't pay the musician, it will be very difficult for them to commit and invest time and effort for the church's quality of music, what he is saying, if you want a high calibre musician, they were the paying type, I've experienced a lot that church musicians that are not professional lacks mastery of the art, because they have a job which prioritize more and music is just kind of their hobby. But if you pay a musician, he might exert some time and effort to master the craft, because it will become his profession. Remember, no hobbyist can do it better than the professionals. It's not about lack of commitment and lack of spirit, it's all about the Church's obligation towards his worker. As the saying goes,"Good music is expensive, and there are much cheaper, but it's not good enough."
First of all this video was very informative and I could relate because I am a psalmists, I have 5 albums and churches contact me to minister in their church events, so I was able to relate with this video, and I agree that the keyboardist is a vital part in a church service but so is the guitarist and all the other members, Michael Jordan can not win an NBA game without the help of his team, I agree the keyboardist should be payed but all the other musicians should also be compensated.
I have bought all of your content because as an older musician, it is great to have something so easy to follow. If I had your stuff early in my career I may have won all kinds of awards by now. This is a great video. I've been a working church musician since I was 12 years old and received $30 per month as a salary. I've played for churches that paid musicians and I have played for those that didn't. Over 40 years I've seen this debate go back and forth and I will say this - if the musician is a blessing to the church then the church should be a blessing to the musician. In college, I worked full-time as a TSA, 20 hours in the engineering lab, and played for 3 different churches in 3 different cities to get through college (I was an electrical engineering major with a whole load of classes simultaneously). I was so exhausted that I fell asleep in the middle of the day while driving and totaled my car. I'm blessed to be alive. A friend of mine that played for the college choir told me about a church that needed a musician. I reached out to them. I was interviewed and after the interview they hired me. That church paid me $200 a week to be the church musician and to work with 5 different choirs but that was enough money for me to get another car, get married to the love of my life, and graduate with my engineering degree. When the church as a whole starts to look at the roles they have that they can compensate I think they should. You don't know what that can do for a musician and his family. Biblically, I think in Number 18, it talks about how all the offerings were taken to take care of the temple. That included an offering for the Levites - the musicians. I could be wrong on that but I do believe it is right to take care of your musicians financially. Thanks for this video.
Mannn this is such an amazing testimony! To know that God provided a church home that also enabled you to succeed and thrive during your school days… Also a big BUG Thanks for the love and support of purchasing and supporting me through the years! Really REALLY means a lot! I don’t take it for granted! ☀️💚
Thank you so much KC . This video is so much a great deal of help. I thought the debate about musicians being paid is a topic of discuss in Africa only. Again, your thoughts are just same as mine. It's good professional musicians like you come out to clear the air for critics, especially non musicians.
Where was this video 2 months ago😅. I wondering about this topic, because I’m a traveling song leader. After reading the scripture and few UA-cam videos, I conclude that musicians should get paid; And yes, there are scriptures to back this up. Musicians/Song leaders are MINISTERS too, we relay the Word as well to the congregation, just like the Preacher. Thanks for this video
The problem with the church is that they demand Beyonce like musicianship for nothing. If you want to give mediocre pay, then stop demanding Beyonce level instrumentation
@@prettysimplemusic LOLGod bless yah Bro KC.. (Bro I literally have an entire spreadsheet for pricing commensurate with churches from small to Mega and Arenas) … you articulated your points perfectly, problem is most church folk are scared to say what you said because they don’t understand Gods Word and Balance as it relates to this topix. Also to many musicians are copy cats. There’s no individuality anymore. There should be something unique about YOU. When ever I tune to your channel however, you ain’t afraid to be different and that is fresh air. You don’t care what the latest keyboard is, you do you. I cant tell you how many church cats I see who have a nord just cuz somebody they saw has a nord or a motif, or something like mike bereal has from Roland, or keyscape just cuz someone else has. Bro and Sistah if you wanna have any of these, cool, but get your own sound. When prince was alive. Something he told musicians that thought they’d sound like him wit a purple guitar is, master “your” instrument. Enough of my rant I’m back lol. But check me out at (realbnice) on IG. I also own Listentoplay.com. I’m gonna start posting my music stuff soon bro, I have a keyboard no one has that I took a risk on and mastered, because I sought my own sound and dared to be different. I have studied apologetics since the age of 15 and was classical trained at age of 7. I’ve also Directed entire shows at places like Strathmore Music and Arts Center same stage Brian Mcknicght Performed on.
Totally do not agree! Electricians are not a part of the church they are building. Most Church musicians are a part of the church they are playing for. I am missing wanting to give something back to the church who gives you the gospel. In our church everyone comes to the meeting to give! No one just goes there to get something for themselves and then leave. People are along in prayer, testifying, music, setting up chairs etc. Also electricians, carpenters voluntarily help with fixing stuff in the church. Me as a musician am immensely grateful I can give something back of what I have been given by God And of course some of the tasks are a fulltime job, they should get paid like Paul got paid for traveling around
Thanks! Again, as stated this was intended for top high demand musicians, not volunteer level musicians (they should be free with maybe doughnuts and juice) - this is for those who are highly skilled and well trained like the Levites… Much love ☀️💚
@@prettysimplemusic thanks for the response! Are you talking about musician's traveling around from church to church? Or about musician's committed to one Church The Levites lived in the old covenant where they could only get earthly blessings We are in the new covenant and are aiming for blessings in eternity! Im from a church with over 500 members who all do their part. Got a few people who are professional musicians and are happy to do their part! We have a choir that practices ones a week and a band who also practices ones a week Everybody practices their pieces at home to perform at feast's and meetings. Highly skilled and trained musicians with Degrees. Some travel one hour to get to the meetings and Practices But they do it voluntarily and are happy to do it. God only wants gifts you can give with happiness
@@prettysimplemusic Yeah ain't no more 20 dollar barber's. A lot of times musicians undercut each other instead of looking at the bigger picture of fairness for all musicians. I think I could form a union in Chicago but I think a few pastor's, Bishop's and missionaries might put a curse on me....
I don't advocate doing this, but in some instances, this does need to happen, unfortunately. Some churches have the means to do better by their workers and just don't. In that case...a union would be a great thing!
@@GatorTex The biggest issue with starting a Union are the organist slash keyboard players most are not team players and perfectly happy being paid 200 to 1000k a week while the drummer gets 50 to 150 a week. Divide and conquer works. 70 percent of the time the drummers, bass guitar or lead guitar players are equal or better than the organists or keyboard players as musicians.
This is great info and well put across. I am currently having a struggle with church folks inviting me to play-Funerals, Memorials, Thanksgivings and not giving a cent even though one brother I recently played at, boasted about the amount of money he just made working overtime. I guess he did not realize he was working me overtime. So I am currently making a list of stingy brethren to avoid in future. 😀. Music ministry takes money and yes-focus, if the minister wants to perform at the highest possible level. Donations act as an encouragement to maintain that excellence.
This seems very strange. I've thought about it a lot, but.... God gave you salvation and eternal life for free, and now you're trying to bill him when your life and musical gifts are completely God-given - is that what it looks like? It looks like an attempt to sell to God what he gave you for free out of love. If he gave it all to you out of unconditional Love, why shouldn't the musicians praise and worship him in the same way, unconditionally? It looks similar to smth like a trading relationship between the Father and his children but not imitating God unconditional Love. And Matthew 6:24 and Mathew 6:33 are good in this context, I think.
@@prettysimplemusic That what Jesus said that this world owes smth to you? Or Bible says that? Ask yourself a question. Who promised to you all that you believe you will get from God...This world or Jesus? Didn't he say that in the world you will have tribulation? But nowhere in the Bible you will find information about trade relations between brothers and sisters in the faith, in Acts it is written that everything was in common in the church. I believe that the salary of a musician should not be discussed, it should be provided to him simply because he is part of a community in which in ancient times everything belonged to all members of the community, and was given to each according to his needs.
@@prettysimplemusic Just a logical question, KC: If you glorify and worship God and not the church, why should you be paid by the church leadership and not by God himself?
@@Dadee3 Example. If you worked in a factory, would you be paid by your co-workers, or by the head of the factory, whose tasks you would perform? I think that the monetary system in the church system can greatly damage the relationship between brothers and sisters, because their communication will not be based on the knowledge of Christ and his care through faith, but on the basis of who owes whom and how much for anything in church life. I think it would be superfluous to give an example of what love can be like, when that love begins to set conditions. I know people who really thinking about that type of questions: If you believe God for everything, why are you trying to get it from His people? It feels like KC wants to say that if the church doesn't pay him, he won't glorify God with music.
Facts! But with the right clappers and a good churchy drum loop… you can definitely make it through the service!!!! Drummers in the black church ARE ESSENTIAL!!!! 🔥🔥🔥
@@prettysimplemusic Them Clappers sound absolutely harsh sonically without a live drummer playing over them. I've never heard a drum loop involving a actual bass drum, snare, toms, cymbals playing a actual drum beat in place of a absent drummer in a big church service. It would be easier to just sing over a entire instrumental then to drive to sing over strictly drum loops with a band.
🤔Well...the bible said that the Levites belonged to the Lord; and when the tribe of Isreal were receiving inheritance the Levites were not allowed to take an inheritance bc the House of God was their inheritance they did not depart from the House of the Lord, so there needs were met through the house of the Lord. Now that means that the Levites were not playing gigs for r&b artist's, or at the club,😬 bc they were santified unto the Lord. Whelp; it is rare to find those kinds of musicians today😶
As a guitarist I have a $1,700 custom built guitar, a cheap amp costing around $400. About $2,000 worth of pedals on my pedalboard and years and years of practice and experience. ALLLLL that but the ONE thing I DON'T have is time to really fine tune my craft. I tell my former students all the time "music is a talent with an expiration date" if you don't use your gift every single day for hours each day. You WILL get sloppy and rusty. I think paying a musician only makes a better musician. To your first point. If we're focused on everything BUT perfecting our craft than we're loosing the game. It's hard to balance ministry, family, a career all while bettering your craft.
Great content. If the church sets expectations for the musician, he should be paid. If the musician and come and go with no expectations, it is up to the church if they want to pay. But they will never have a strong consistent music ministry. Some ministries do not care, so must have musicians.
2:43. Buddy. I agree with you 100% until you said CCM musicians aren’t skilled. All musicians are skilled all singers are skilled. All musicians in the church community should be paid. Maybe that musician who is playing CCM does so because they choose to, but are overly skilled for that genre. There is more to musicianship than what chords you play. Some of the greatest songs in history are three chords. The chords maybe easy but the feeling they produce is from skill. But on a positive note, thank you for speaking the truth regarding church musician pay.
Yessir. Thanks… But, in my defense, I never said CCM musicians weren’t skilled, Gospel musicians are just rare to find with the ability to play gospel chops in various flow & improv moments. Most CCM songs are pattern based not groove and vibe based, which is technically more difficult to learn than the typical pattern with a few nuances and effects here and there…. Definitely not a battle but just a placement of improvisation and impromptu flow and chops…
If you volunteer for a role, but it morphs into more than you thought it would require, or your life circumstances mean it’s requiring more from you than you deem appropriate then talk with whoever is in charge. It’s probably time for that role to become better defined. If it’s unpaid and there’s no contract then you are under no obligation to continue at all - even if you feel pressure, it’s not your job or your responsibility!! Imagine you turned up to a clothes shop and started folding clothes and putting them back on the hanger. Of course, the shopkeeper would appreciate that, they might even lay off a paid member of staff to make way for you! Eventually, you get sucked into doing it every day from 9 to 5. Everybody assumes that it’s your job - but it isn’t!
People’s time, money and effort are valuable. Unless they SPECIFICALLY state that they wish to donate them as part of their financial support of the church? They need to be paid…and it is exploiting them not to do it. The church shouldn’t expect services for free simply because it is a church.
CCM is very underestimated by gospel musicians. They think it's easy but a lot of what I've seen from gospel musicians trying to play CCM is just chopping over everything. CCM requires intentionality and practice. Much more discipline. Not saying this is the case 100% of the time but in many cases its true.
CCM requires discipline, humility, and spiritual maturity… Gospel requires sensitivity to a raw, unscripted flow with the ability to add spice and flare as needed… CCM can be learned much MUCH quicker and has repetitive monotony in chords and patterns… hence you’ll find more Gospel musicians that can shift into CCM than CCM musicians that can shift into a Gospel environment. I can appreciate and value both… but there’s a significant difference of skill and agility that requires to become a gospel musician.
Honestly, I used to think that we should all serve for God and God will provide. Basically, work for free and be grateful. As I grew and read the bible, this was not the case, as we have to value people time, skillset and ability and place value on this accordingly. The issue I have is what I call "Gospel Mercenaries". Great, top-level musicians and singers who go from church to church and only take their wages and build no connection with the church(es). It can get so bad that the church has to schedule an early worship service to accommodate the musicians and singers. I believe if the church wants to pay the musicians and singers, go for it. However, it is a ministry. You should see investments in the community, discipleship in building the next generation of musicians and singers, and growth in their mastery of flow of the service where you can see the holy spirit more so than the wow, he is a great musician or singer (WOW vs POWer section you mentioned). This should be the focus and if it takes a wage, so be it but it is really about your intention and heart. Is your prayer, practice and study all to make a wage or make a difference?
I hear people on here saying its wrong for musicians to get paid. If thats the case then why would you go buy a cd of john p kee or fred hammond or whoever. If you take that position then youre hypocritical if you buy any gospel cd, td jakes dvd, etc. Theres absolutely no difference
KC, God bless you for this video. I've been an advocate of this for years but some pastors are the problem cos they look down on our profession. Thank you bro
Great sir you just said everything I'm a student and a musician a keyboardist at my church but all these years being there i not being paid a dine as a form of appreciation,,,, i think I'm going to share this to my pastor and other fellow musicians out there suffering
very unwise.....Better to be paid by God than by Man....... you wouldnt know I believed this based on my other comments in this same thread.... But we must feed milk to those who require it....and meat for those who may have started getting their teeth.
KC, I think you need to re-think your definition of CCM. The kind of music that you say these so-called "CCM churches" are playing I would not consider to be CCM. I would just call it Prasie Music and leave it at that. My concept of CCM is how it was played and back in the 70s, 80s and early 90s. That is what I'd call Classic CCM.
Hi! I never referenced “Classic” CCM… I’m clearly referring CCM. Contemporary Christian Music… Google “CCM Songs for 2023” The churches that sing these songs are precisely who I’m referring to. Much love ☀️💚
Thank you for this video! I still work not fulltime but enough to be able to do a few extra things but glory to God that the ministry thinks it not robbery to invest in me. And it gives me time to rest-recoup-perform duties without worry. I wanna be like KC when i grow up but anyways. The bible say to be content with what you have. And because of me being able to focus. I was able to accept award this past weekend for songwriter and i didnt have to say oh i gotta go to work cant attend that appreciation moment. So im just grateful! To God be the Glory!
My dad had a very small and beginning church and I was holding down services with terrible drum skills, because thats all we had. If theres a will theres a way 😂
Man, This Is Vital Information and I am a drummer. I play both CCM and Gospel. I don’t know if you have a video discussing how Worship Leaders and MD’s need to get the music to the band in timely manner. I have a day job besides drums and I am Old School where I know listening to the Words of the song is important as learning the drum parts.
Really? I can’t believe I’m seeing this. There is nothing I can do to repay what God did for me, even if I were a professional musician, I wouldn't charge a single dollar, I couldn't
Its true Sir.... bcoz if im not payed ill wonder around...the reality is back home there a bills and mouths to feed...and i hv to be presentable as im in front as im ministering with you my Pastor...and my commitment can make the church stable...i think i add value to the kingdom of God...when the livites where not suported they left the temple...thats what is happening now.. most Pastors are working bcoz they get no real support ...even ushers and media team and worshippers if not working at the moment ...the congregants must take notice and help where they can...yes they are serving bt there are needs that abvious...myb you see that one is always wearing the same shoes or same jacket...that means there is a need there plz brederens try and help each other Amen...
Respect to the information shared. I disagree with one thing. A keyboard player can play without a drummer but it’s not effective. Yes you can use a track but eventually you’ll have to stop that track to change the tempo because the song has changed. That’s like having a body without a heartbeat
Actually you can run a service with just a drummer! I've been doing it for 15 years!!! LOL Just the Praise Team and Me! But in all seriousness, my Apostle takes great care of me. There is not one need that hasn't been met for me. But now I run the entire service myself musically using Prime. I still play the drums of course but I use Prime for music through the whole service. It's fun and I love what I do!!!
There are so many different ways to view this, and a lot of personal investment on multiple sides of the issue. So I struggle with just having one hard and fast rule for everyone. That said, I think the real question is: is our worship music important enough to hire professional-level players to do it? I have a real hard time with the folks who say our music doesn’t need to be good or well executed. We’re offering it to God, it should be as good as we can make it!
I think you hit on the real issue which gets to the root of the matter We can worship God just fine with one amateur playing the piano or the acoustic guitar when you really think about it
BIBLICAL COMPARRISION OF LEVITES You are comparing the wrong group of people if you wanted to use an Old Testament example. You should be using David and His worship unto the Lord...not the Levites. David worshiped God from his heart and danced and praised God without reservation. Levites were Gods vessels seperated for His purpose. When we worship, it is us giving glory from our heart to God. The levites were used for the service of the temple to make away for Israel to come into the precense of God The Father. That was done away with when Jesus came. It is thru Jesus, we today have access to the Father. He is the Great High Priest. We are to be like David with a pure and contrite heart. That is what God DESIRES! Check these verses. ISAIAH 57:15- God dwells among them! PSALMS 51:17- GOD WILL NOT DESPISE. If we require money for our services, we want to share in the glory given to God. The question we need to ourselves: WHERE DOES OUR WORSHIP STEM FROM? FROM A PLACE OF PRIDE OF MY SKILLS OR FROM A CONTRITE HEART.
kC, you are truly blessed! I played at a Church over 20 years. Their outings, rehearsals, funerals and Church Services were all inclusive within the pay. After being loyal and dedicated to this one church they take it upon themselves to move rehearsal days so it doesn't fit my schedule. The pay wasn't even $400/wk and they taxed what they gave me. So I came to the conclusion that this situation was not going to work for me and parted ways.
To be highly skilled requires many hours of FOCUSED prayer, FOCUSED practice and INTENSE study - working a full time job, plus doing side gigs robs musicians of FOCUSED TIME that could otherwise be spent catering specially to the house of worship and serving in excellence. If your church will invite a guest speaker, singer etc and compensates them for their TIME and SERVICE, but never invest back into you and your skillset, they are out of order!
Yes, serve God with your gifts, but understand that money allows you time away from hustling other side gigs to focus and "perfect" & properly cultivate your giftings, talents and worship unto God.
Word
This is very correct ☺️
When my son was younger, he was commissioned to play for a church concert for $200. After spending hours learning 8 songs, 4 rehearsals and a 2 hour concert……they handed him a check for $75. We were told that the Pastor’s WIFE decided $200 was too much🙄. I was LIVID! Needless to say, Mama got involved and a few days later my son received the rest of his money. The next year, they asked him to play AGAIN……..his fee was MUCH higher and it was paid up front.
Dont call it SERVICE if you REQUIRE finances. Its good the church considers it, but whetever you do, do it unto the Lord. I serve God fulltime but dont get paid. I know what it means to spend your own money and time. I am a minister who is called to serve.
If you get your vision cleared from this world, you'll see all the work you do is for God and you can't care less about money.
Seek Gods kingdom first!
Everything else he will take care of.
If you can't manage to pay the bills because you are spending so much time with practicing your music, maybe it isn't God's plan for you.
What are the motives to play in Church?
Really liking music?
Honour of men?
Not being able to say no when asked?
Please let in everything to serve God be your motive!
And the sentence: never invest back to you?
Are you even listening to the gospel they are preaching?
Isn't that investing back in to you?
And if it feels like your church isn't investing in to you, what are you doing it for? Are you really seeking treasure's in heaven?
Great video! And if you're paying for top-notch musicians, don't ruin the investment with unskilled (and often unpaid) mix engineers.
Oh yeah!
Big Facts 🎯🎯🎯🎯
Yeah... It can be annoying. That's why they've got to be following Churchfront for some solid tips and how-tos. 😅😅😅
Of course they should get paid!! The Bible says a worker is worthy of his wages.....
Yessir! Same for the construction workers, electricians and plumbers who BUILT the church… ☀️💚
Except he said that ushers and the people counting the money out the back shouldn't be paid. It doesn't matter if they're skilled or unskilled, aren't they still workers?
You taking that out of context.....music isn't a requirement for church services.....nobody is supposed to profiting off God.....if you love God then you will gladly give that service to Him...
@@bigbluetruck3464 exactly
@@bigbluetruck3464 not in this society. 🤣
This is 100% CORRECT!
God bless you brother i appreciate you breaking it down and the last thing you said if they want to bless you with an offering that’s wonderful but what if it’s a church thats small and can’t pay you that money are you gonna deny them? May God reciever all the glory always❤❤❤
Powerful.... Great wisdom i really enjoy listening to you.....
Thanks so much for watching!! Much love ☀️💚
I just question how u gage what is worth paying I’m a drummer but I don’t consider my self good but I can keep a beat with any musician and play any song and type of song and I’m good at dynamic’s and feeling the way ppl go but I’ve had to reduce my time at the church from one rehearsal and 3 performances with atleast 6 songs per and 2 surprise songs per a week to just two shows no rehearsals a week cause I can’t afford gas I’ve had to buy stick thrones heads keys and other stuff for this church and also help run sound media and I also played the bass for them until the drummer left and I can read music as I played in high school marching band four instruments and sing with many years of experience am I good no but I think I’m worth something
At the very least, even for the worst musicians, the church should provide the necessary musical equipment... even if no salary is included, supplies are essential!
Thank you brother this is true
Thanks so much for watching brother! Much love ☀️💚
AMEN!!
I can't believe this is still a discussion!! I guess I shouldn't be surprised 🤷
This guy is preaching a message every church and church musician needs to hear
Yes!
This topic can no longer be ignored! I now know why I’ve been so frustrated, it doesn’t make sense on my end………..
I’ve been church musician all my life but because of financial problem I started playing with secular bands to earn a living.
Uh oh you stirring the pot again and I love it!
1. If churches don't wanna pay, train up the youth in your church until they get good enough to demand market value for their gift.
2. Specialize people get paid, volunteers get appreciated.
3. Musicians, hear the maturity of KC when it comes to money. He started on a low end, then he got paid well, and now his quality of life allows him to just recerve 100% donation. Know your worth, but be caught chasing your assignment rather than the highest dollar. Your legacy & inheritance is there.
If you are going to train them you still need to pay if the play my son get on I pay him with my money you play you need to pay I adjust my pay according to the size of the church. I feel in all the time. Big church 200 small 100 to the low of 50.
Well, I've been playing for over 20years and I never ask for pay. I'm ok serving God with my talent BUT THAT IS MY CHOICE. GOD HAD A PROPER WELFARE PLAN FOR MUSICIANS AND THOSE WHO SERVED AT THE ALTAR. I think every church should have that plan for her musician . What I understand from this video is that you should create an environment to favour the spiritual focus of the musician. Over here in Nigeria, we always have a way to handle our matters😊
@@GaxtonOkobah What you doing is fine.....as long as you dont believe yourself above or better than those who demand pay...... as soon as you think this way....all blessings are lost...
I play drums for a medium sized church and have been blessed to simply serve. Never thought about any type of compensation. There was some benifits though like getting to know the church staff better, getting recognized in the congragation, thus making friendships a lot easier. What a blessing to serve on stage and experience the presence of God while worshipping.
Then there is the majority of us who work a full-time job while trying to be highly skilled, all while raising a family. I can confirm that it’s the most frustrating thing for someone who is a musician at heart!
Broooooo!!!!! All facts! 🎯
Taaaalllk!!! 💯💯💯
That is why you pray and ask God to strengthen you. When you minister in your craft, all types of problems will come your way. Especially if God chose you for this ministry.
The bible says the enemy will come to kill,steal, and destroy. But before you minister, I encourage you to pray and ask God to strengthen you so you can be faithful in your service. Its not by your own might or power but thru God who strengthens you.
@@Motwn24 Faith without the 'work' of PRACTICING won't be fruitful. You need time to practice - study to show yourself approved.
@@HybridMusiciansThe text you are using is being used wrongfully. The text you are referring to is in James 2:14-26. It speaks of "Faith without works is dead." Is there a difference of Work and Works?
Works is a demonstartion of your Faith. In other words, your action based on faith. Example: Abraham was ready and obedient to God to sacrifice his son and he was commended for that. In your case, it is the act of playing with the church. That is your spiritual act of worship.
It maybe true you need to work at your craft and continue learning, but the act of playing for the Lord is your 'works'.
I was an unpaid mucian at church and it was extremely expensive for me to perfect my craft. So much that l had to persue another career. I agree with you 100%
The same to me , I work from Monday to Saturday and I find no time to do practice and eventually when you get to play, they want more from me as a drummer and it's embarrassing. this all comes to no facilitation
The Church provides a learning ground for the willing.
Totally agree KC
depending on what church though- some churches require immediate skill and that may not allow for a beginner to learn@@rooseveltkemp869
all musicians should be paid....not just the highly skilled.....Maybe paid less..... but still paid. LBJ makes the most money on his team.....but the guys at the end of the bench who never plays in a big game......put in some practice work.....and still get paid.....albeit much less than the highly skilled players.
I worked for a large church in the media and all the musicians that played services, special events, and such were paid. It's a matter of respect and the pay wasn't fantastic but good enough that they wanted the gigs. They were all working pro so it was some extra money for an easy gig. They all were also members of the church. We tried to make the gig as easy possible for them. In general no rehearsals except for big special events they all had great ears. The sound check before service was when most learned the tune for the guest artist at each service. If more time was needed they would all go to one of the utility rooms to go over the tune(s) before the praise part of service started. The music in the service was placed where so they didn't have to stay on the stage during main part of service. They played praise then not long after that the guest artist would do their first tune. After that the band box was set so they could slide out and go outside where we had coffee and snacks for people working the service. The music assistant would stay inside and when she notice the Rev was winding up she would go and tell the band time to come back in and slide into the band box. Band would play for the guest artist second tune, then play the offertory, and remain on stage till the end of service. The Rev's wife was the Choir Director and was a Jazz artist herself in past and that is why the musicians were treated respectfully. We had a list of musician that wanted to play and we rotated through them to get them all a chance to make some money and also keep from burning out if they played all three sunday services and Wednesday night service.
So yes church musicians should be paid it is a job and it requires a certain level of proficiency that takes years to develop and need to be compensated for. Anyone who works for the church deserves to get paid. I started at the church as a volunteer being in service to the church. As time went on they saw I had skills they needed regularly and I was hired part-time. As things progress I became a full time media employee.
amen bro, thats how it should be done
PERFORMING OR SERVING? When I play professionally (at a club or party) I get paid for performing but when I play for church I offer it up as a thanksgiving to my Lord for allowing me to be able to serve Him with the gifts He has given me. Maybe that’s the difference . Are we performing for our Lord Jesus Christ or are we serving Him?
I play for free at my church. The church shows it's appreciation though. Playing for free is what I wanted. I can focus on the music and bringing in the Spirit. I play guitar.
Thank you Amen
I'm a pastor and worship leader at our church, and ever since I was a teenager, I've never felt in my heart the desire to get paid for my ministry. I freely received it and freely give it back to our God. The same applies for music lessons. I personally don't feel right getting paid for my ministry as a pastor or musician.
The way I see it is that if the local church wants to pay their ministers, they can. But because the church agrees that that is how they want to function. The Apostle Paul made a case for teaching the church to take care of its ministers, but he also preferred not to receive money for his ministry because he didn't want it to affect his testimony. So, although he could and had a right to, he chose not to for sake of the gospel.
Money is a sensitive topic for many and a stumbling block for others whether they give or receive.
As far as the levites are concerned, they actually had no other choice. God set them aside specifically to minister. The situation is different between us and them. Their "payments" were actually more of a sustenance. The nation of Israel was expected to provide for them via their offerings and tithes. We can have land inherentance for example, they couldn't. But like them, our best inherentance is God, not money or anything we can buy with money. He will provide for us. We should be happy with what we have and don't have. Give thanks to God in any and every situation we find ourselves in.
Respect Pastor. I agree with certain points you made. Where I disagree is that we are different that the Levites. As a gospel musician, I believe I’m required to return to God my gifts, and perfect my gifts. Similar to the 10, 5 and 1 talents. I feel as if your saying that I have the right to bury my talent and be named a wicked servant. Let me know if I’m wrong. Now, real talk - those same skilled players oftentimes end up playing in places other than church because they need to eat, keep a roof, maintain a vehicle, maintain their instruments, and the list goes on. What if the church were to complete for their services rather than them using their talent in the world. In a way, that church becomes a stumbling block if they are able to pay, but choose not to. To be completely transparent, I play for free at my church. But I’m a novice at my instrument. But I’ve been blessed to play with some great players who I learn from.
@lbranom3310 we were given our musical gifts so that we could exclusively worship God with them. I don't feel right playing music that is not worshipping God. Much less to make it my career. The way I see it is I can't serve two masters.
Consider this, how would it look if the High Priest in the Tabernacle had a side job worshipping other gods to make ends meet? He would utterly profane the Tabernacle.
Now, God deserves OUR best worship, and we should strive to perfect our skills. BUT God never demanded this from us. So saying that we should get paid because we spend time practicing and studying to be better musicians so that we could present a better performance has nothing to do what God ask from us as musicians or from the church.
Worshipping in spirit and truth can actually be done without music to begin with. It's a privilege that we have to minister before God and to lead the worship, not a right.
Now, the talent parable has nothing to do with gifts such as music. A "talent" was worth years of wages. Some estimate about 20 years' worth for each talent. That's why, towards the end, the master rebukes the servant for not putting the talent in the bank so that he could collect interest from the talent. The parable has more to do with multiplying what God has asked us to do. Spread the gospel, make more disciples. Multiply as believers and not hide the truth of the gospel.
We, as believers, are like the levites when it comes to purpose only. To serve before God. Applying the payment aspect of it doesn't hold water because ALL believers are now priests before God in a sense. Does that mean that every believer should get paid? Or if you want to get paid like the levites, are you willing to get circumcised as well? Because they were required to do so. How about keeping the Sabbath? Yeah, it's like comparing apples to oranges.
I'm not the best musician in the world, far from it. I'm not even the best I could be, but when I worship God, I try my best to do it with all my heart, and I think that is all God asks for. You can be the fanciest musician, with the greatest licks and arrangements, but if you do it to receive glory from others instead of God, then God isn't interested. As musicians, we are very susceptible to being conceited and self-centered. Vain. But if our heart is in the right place and for the right reasons, then the simplest arrangement will be like a pleasing aroma before God.
@@lbranom3310 It's a personal choice to make. It's okay to step down from the worship team if you want to use your musical skills for events or gigs to support yourself financially. The only thing you might miss is not just your musical talent, but also the feeling of God's presence when you play.
Some churches don't pay musicians because their finances depend on tithes and offerings. However, we can't force members to give, but we can teach them about the importance of tithes and offerings and let them decide whether or not to contribute.
Lastly, if you have a true understanding of God's word and the importance of worshiping Him, then you should understand why churches may or may not pay their members for their service. However, if you don't understand or accept this concept, it comes down to your personal decision.
Do you collect tithings? Or take up offerings?
@@JaeWheeler In my church we take tithes and offerings.
PREACHHHHHHH!!!!! 🗣️ don’t believe the folks in the back can hear you 🔥🔥🔥👍🏽
Amen. I play CCM so I do it for free and I'm also retired so I have an income. You're right Gospel is much harder than CCM but not unlearnable and not hard to learn either. I just don't like gospel music. Even CCM musicians should be paid, they still have to buy equipment, practice and be at rehearsals and service all Sunday too.
100%
Church musicians should get paid or their service considered a part of their overall giving... as in a part of their tithe... I was in a situation where I was a volunteer church musician doing services WEEKLY without being paid and expected to give my tithe financially as well as was treated like they were doing me a favor by letting me on the worship team and not like I was doing them a favor by volunteering so much. I had to pay for my instruments. I had to prepare for service every week that I did not get paid for and this took time away from focusing on doing my music as a profession. Professionalism was expected. The pastor and his wife were NOT people that had our family’s back. We were struggling financially. The pastor’s wife went on a vacation out of the country while my family was struggling financially to replace our dishwasher. Yet I was advised that my giving was not to be considered in place of the tithe giving. We were short at the end of the year almost exactly what we tithed to the pastor and his wife so they could live their posh lifestyle. Ugh. I will never do this again. If I was considered a rank amature where they were doing me a favor by letting me on the worship team, why even put me on that team! God deserves the best! Yes... musicians should be paid. I realize not all churches can swing this but if they can they should.
I think if you playing at a church, they could at least cover servicing of instruments. Like drum skins and sticks or guitar strings and cables. More so for part-time musicians. Full-time musicians should probably get paid if the fund are there. Anyways, great video KC
Thanks KC. I've played all my life for free. But I've found it challenging sometimes. There was a church I played for in a village that didn't have a keyboard so I came with mine. I didn't have a car so I'd get a taxi. At the close of service, members would jump in their cars and drive off while I waited for my uber, standing at the gate with my keyboard...lol. I did get a ride once but no one ever talked about how I managed. And o...I was a student in a nearby city...just wanted to help out. But the least I expected was at least a ride back into town. I agree with you KC.
I should add I never complained. But I agree with KC. Not everyone will like to hear it but he's right. The purpose for it is what really matters....FOCUS!
Really, that cries unto the Eyes of God.
This happened me last week, I was involved into a car crash, honestly I don't have money and I was asking for rides but it was really hard to get one.
Wow! That's a shame. The Lord will provide in His Name.
I hear you. I'm sorry you were being taken advantage of. Not all churches are like that. I pray you find one that appreciates you financially!
KC, this video was absolutely wholesome. Thank you. You touched on the economics of the matter too. Few people in a church can play the piano well and play in every key without transposing. Fewer people can play the organ well and with their feet. If nothing else, this is a matter of basic economics. The DEMAND is HIGH for excellent musicians or even relatively decent musicians. But the SUPPLY to meet this demand is LOW. Not everyone can play and more importantly, not everyone loves Jesus Christ. When demand is high for something but the supply to meet that demand is low, the supplier (musician in this case) should not only be paid but be paid very well.
out of all of that, I never saw God in your comment.... where does God fit into paying a musician skilled or not?
@@ChristianRobinson
Exactly!!
KC laid out accurate scriptural backing in the video@@ChristianRobinson
Kc please loud it ! Drummer are really going through a lot in churches, when their accessories got damaged, nobody cares, they want drummer to keep managing since the snare drum is still sounding even if the kick is no longer working.😀😀😀
Your reward is in heaven bro. ❤❤❤
If the church is rich, church must pay musician...
My take is this: IF a church has the funds, they should pay the musicians. Churches shouldn’t be straining the members for funds for musicians. Receiving remuneration for our skills is ideal. Yet, when that can’t happen (e.g. small churches), we should be willing to serve the Lord with ALL our heart freely. We shouldn’t let the desire for money change our church attendance or worship: that is when it has become the LOVE of money. And that is evil. Btw KC, I see u preacher.
1. Do u believe that CCM musicians should be paid?
2. Can u do a video about how to get hired and keep a job? Can u also discuss what skill level we need to be at b4 we we can work full time on keys?
I totaly agree
This.
The amount of time spent on practising and preparing material for a service/mass is enormous. And the time off from work, or from other events is a sacrifice. In the end, little stayed.
As a church musician myself. I kinda disagree. I believe musicians should be payed as "church staff" and not to just rock up to a rehearsal and play songs on Sunday and preacher chords. The levites didn't prepare privately away from the temple. So the musician should, in my opinion basically have a "9-to-5" at the church they play at. Spending hours at the church preparing for the Sunday service, training up the volunteer musicians, improving the overall structure of worship at that church so that there are no distractions etc. You should be more than rocking up to play on Sunday and rehearsing on a Thursday night.
I've discovered I'm a much better organizer and have better time management at home. the commute to and from church + other social distractions is a low payout for my attention and level of FOCUS. Especially with Zoom and Planning Center - home is a perfect setup for me...
I couldn’t agree more. The Levites also prepped the sacrifices, cleaned the temple, meditated on the word, and further in service of the church. I’m a drummer and I worked 10yrs to get to the skill that I’m at, but I also keep my gear clean and I help clean the stage and when they need help in anything in the church I’m there! This video has a very clear worldly view. The entire time advocating for making this just a job. Being a worshipper is NOT a job. It’s a ministry. You wanna make money as a musician, go play a rock concert. I focus (without getting paid) because I love playing and I love my service to the Lord. This is terrible for the new people starting in worship because it’s shifting their focus to pay rather than ministry. Ministry does not equal business.
Ministry is a sacrifice, if it’s “comfortable” then you’re doing it right. God didn’t call you to a life of comfort. As a matter of fact, 11 of the 12 apostles died as martyrs. If you don’t want that then you gotta choose a different religion
@@matiasgastou I don't think you understand the points made in the video, else you won't make such statements. Because of your choice of words and tone, I can say your comment about the video is unfortunate. You can have a different view concerning the matter in question, but you cannot run down his views like that because he equally made a lot of sense, both from a spiritual point of view and a logical point of view. I suggest you watch the video again, this time, with an open mind, to be able to well understand the points made. Thank you.
@thabomahlagare9001 You also have a solid point there.
As a professional musician, I have Been serving in church bands giving 100% week to week four years. I don’t just show up, I rehearse I go over everything making sure every single detail is excellent. It wore me out. Getting paid would make a massive difference
I was at a pastor's conference once and heard the speakers say the most awful thing, both huge mega churches had moved to non paid musicians, that's fine, it was the reason one of them gave that just took me out, I had to go talk to him afterward, he said, he looked up and saw the folks playing, and all the people that were around, and thought why are we paying them for this opportunity? This kind of exposure! - I'm like, does that logic work for you Pastor? Why is the church paying you to speak to so many people, you should be happy for the exposure! To date I haven't returned to that conference.
Someone said that people die of exposure lol
I have a different opinion to most of you. Can I ask you guys why you go to church? Is it to play instruments? What does church mean to you? I used to play bass at another church after my church and I would see how they would literally take the money from what we given that day. I told them don't pay me. It's an honour and privilege to serve with my gifts and all the good and effort I've put in is nothing compared to Christ's sacrifice. Guys I implore you. Don't do God's work grudgingly. Don't worry about what the guest speaker is getting. Stop seeking for appreciation from men. Seek the Kingdom, God will reward you. If you get paid cool, if you don't cool. Now I'm in a place where that money I would have got paid for in that other church is nothing to me. Find a church where you can develop your spirit man. Where you can grow. This is more important. Get other gigs in between if you want.
So I’m guessing you skipped me saying that I play for free???
@@prettysimplemusic ok let's say you play for free but because you made this video it means you are also looking for payment, your playing is not from the heart
Simple truth, I always tell young musicians, become skillful at your craft so pastors have no choice but to pay you. Personally, I don’t take a salary anymore, I’ll do my best to be available for Gods service.
BS. Are the musicians saved? Are they members of that church? Do they go to other services like bible study and Sunday school?
English:
I understand your point perfectly, and in fact I agree that a FULL-time musician is paid for his service, as long as it is a great church, ALREADY ESTABLISHED, with a local, many faithful (enough to support the work ) and all that stuff. But I'm telling you, I'm from Colombia (I don't know if this happens in the United States). Here there are many churches that are just beginning, with fewer than 20 faithful (in the case of my pastors, the work is sustained, and I'm sure of that, mostly because of them), where there are hardly any musicians (in the church that I attend we are only 1 guitarist, me the pianist and a voice, and I and the guitarist sing too). My question is this... Are you sure my pastors could pay me even one Sunday service? Are we sure that the ministries that are just emerging even have the possibility of paying a musician? I assure you not...
On the other hand, here there are many musicians who are paid and are not even full-time (many times they are not even Christians, although that depends on the pastors). Even if I had that possibility of getting paid even if I wasn't a full time musician, I would choose to do it for free... Only for God. Although obviously if they want me there all day I would demand payment.
Español:
Entiendo tu punto perfectamente, y de hecho estoy de acuerdo en que a un músico de tiempo COMPLETO se le pague por su servicio, siempre y cuando sea una gran iglesia, YA ESTABLECIDA, con un local, muchos fieles (los suficientes para sostener la obra) y todas esas cosas. Pero te lo digo yo, que soy de Colombia (no sé si esto pase en Estados Unidos). Acá hay muchas iglesias que apenas están comenzando, con menos de 20 fieles incluso (en el caso de mis pastores, la obra se sostiene, y estoy seguro de eso, más que todo por ellos), en las que apenas hay músicos (en la iglesia a la que asisto solo somos 1 guitarrista, yo el pianista y una voz, y yo y el guitarrista cantamos también). Mi pregunta es la siguiente... ¿Estás seguro de que mis pastores podrían pagarme tan siquiera un servicio dominical? ¿Estamos seguros de que los ministerios que apenas están surgiendo, tienen tan siquiera la posibilidad de pagarle a un músico? Yo te aseguro que no...
Por otro lado, acá hay muchos músicos a los que se les paga y ni siquiera son de tiempo completo (muchas veces ni siquiera son cristianos, aunque eso ya depende de los pastores). Incluso si yo tuviera esa posibilidad de que me pagaran aunque no fuera un músico de tiempo completo, escogería hacerlo gratis... Sólo para Dios. Aunque obviamente si me quieren allí todo el día exigiría un pago.
Depends if you are really worshipping, or just a musician. God gave you a skill. Use it for worship and don’t expect payment. Sounds egotistical and selfish to me to take payment for worshipping God.
Your gifts and talents come from YAH!
Humble yourself and no Elohim giveth and He taketh away.
Lucifer was head of the choir in heaven, this is exactly where he is deceiving many members in church.
Shalom
And if you get payed at church it should be tax free be cause your working for God just like the pastors
There was no levite musicians. It was a priestly position. Period. That doesn't mean they were "skilled" Musicians. However a man is worthy of his wages.
This was an awesome video with lots of great points. I have been struggling with this same thing as a church drummer. You opened up my eyes to a lot and backed it with scripture too.
It's a topic that needs to be addressed more. It's great people want to volunteer in the church. They should; however, it should not be expected to never pay for work in God's House! That's just unbiblical! A worker is worth his wages!
FYI most church musicians are not professional but did learn how to play in church and using the church instruments. Most churches are the size of store fronts or slightly larger and don't have the money to play.
Seriously?
This is still questioned?
At least make it challenging for a musician to remain in place. Something is better than nothing. Zero compensation is insulting.
PREACH BROTHER, PREACH‼️ Levites and Minstrels have to be taught the meaning of ministry but they should be paid. The Bible says a workman is worthy of its hire!
Levites are not the right group to compare in the OT if your going to compare to NT. The levites ministry is compleyed after what Christ accomplished and no longer needed for today.
We need to be like David with a contrite heart. Thats why we worship the way we do. Our worship is out of our heart and not like the temple. If you want to copy that go to greek orthodox churches
Huh? The Levites are EXACTLY the right group because that's who the workers in the House of God are! lol!
This was one of the reasons I left my home church they were trying to be so demanding and controlling but wasn’t paying me nothing.
Dont feel bad......If they started paying you...the control would only increase. "What...you came in with the wrong color tie today? Im docking your pay $50!" true story! But this is mainly for people who grew up in, or got their musical start in the church.
Then you're probably not doing it for the Lord. i say "probably" because I don't know you personally.
The 12 disciples left everything they had to follow Jesus. Did he pay them anything? He demanded a lot from them, but did they leave him because He was paying them nothing? Apostle Paul has a side job to sustain his needs, but he does not demand payment from his ministry either, which is more demanding than your ministry, btw.
If the church pays you, be thankful. If they don't, then what? Is all that effort not worth it for serving the Lord? Did the disciples and early Christians demand payment for their persecution? Don't focus on material things. Focus on serving the Lord.
You always have the option of dropping out of the worship team too
😆Did he just liken us to toilets! I guess sometimes we are full of it💩
nah, but for real, thank you, this is great truth!
Great talking points, and I agree w/ your view on this! In fact, it’s a topic that has been on my mind ever since I first started playing in church about 25 years ago. And most churches do NOT pay, and it’s been a massive challenge for me to deal with, cope with and live with. I could go on, but will just say this video was very helpful and I think it also needed to be laid out clearly.. like you did. God bless, and peace✌️
Thank you for putting it out there. People have no idea what it takes to make the music department flow and flourish!!!! God bless you sir!!!!
So you should be paid according the time you spend to do something for your church? Nobody but you and your pastor put the stress on it, God just want humble and true heart worhship him, even with hands and lips only.
1 Timothy 5:18 says, "The worker is worthy of his wages.” Case closed.
This issue isn’t musicians being paid, the issue is the LACK OF COMMITMENT, LACK OF THE SPIRIT you say they have. Many musicians don’t even wanna rehearse to prepare for the things you’re referring to so, its bigger than the money part. Levites weren’t just musicians, they were singers too! Blessings to you👍🏾👍🏾
If you don't pay the musician, it will be very difficult for them to commit and invest time and effort for the church's quality of music, what he is saying, if you want a high calibre musician, they were the paying type, I've experienced a lot that church musicians that are not professional lacks mastery of the art, because they have a job which prioritize more and music is just kind of their hobby. But if you pay a musician, he might exert some time and effort to master the craft, because it will become his profession. Remember, no hobbyist can do it better than the professionals. It's not about lack of commitment and lack of spirit, it's all about the Church's obligation towards his worker. As the saying goes,"Good music is expensive, and there are much cheaper, but it's not good enough."
First of all this video was very informative and I could relate because I am a psalmists, I have 5 albums and churches contact me to minister in their church events, so I was able to relate with this video, and I agree that the keyboardist is a vital part in a church service but so is the guitarist and all the other members, Michael Jordan can not win an NBA game without the help of his team, I agree the keyboardist should be payed but all the other musicians should also be compensated.
I have bought all of your content because as an older musician, it is great to have something so easy to follow. If I had your stuff early in my career I may have won all kinds of awards by now.
This is a great video. I've been a working church musician since I was 12 years old and received $30 per month as a salary. I've played for churches that paid musicians and I have played for those that didn't. Over 40 years I've seen this debate go back and forth and I will say this - if the musician is a blessing to the church then the church should be a blessing to the musician.
In college, I worked full-time as a TSA, 20 hours in the engineering lab, and played for 3 different churches in 3 different cities to get through college (I was an electrical engineering major with a whole load of classes simultaneously). I was so exhausted that I fell asleep in the middle of the day while driving and totaled my car. I'm blessed to be alive.
A friend of mine that played for the college choir told me about a church that needed a musician. I reached out to them. I was interviewed and after the interview they hired me. That church paid me $200 a week to be the church musician and to work with 5 different choirs but that was enough money for me to get another car, get married to the love of my life, and graduate with my engineering degree.
When the church as a whole starts to look at the roles they have that they can compensate I think they should. You don't know what that can do for a musician and his family.
Biblically, I think in Number 18, it talks about how all the offerings were taken to take care of the temple. That included an offering for the Levites - the musicians. I could be wrong on that but I do believe it is right to take care of your musicians financially. Thanks for this video.
Mannn this is such an amazing testimony! To know that God provided a church home that also enabled you to succeed and thrive during your school days… Also a big BUG Thanks for the love and support of purchasing and supporting me through the years! Really REALLY means a lot! I don’t take it for granted! ☀️💚
Thank you so much KC . This video is so much a great deal of help. I thought the debate about musicians being paid is a topic of discuss in Africa only.
Again, your thoughts are just same as mine. It's good professional musicians like you come out to clear the air for critics, especially non musicians.
Nah asking money to serve yall “lord and saviour” is crazy 💀💀
Where was this video 2 months ago😅. I wondering about this topic, because I’m a traveling song leader. After reading the scripture and few UA-cam videos, I conclude that musicians should get paid; And yes, there are scriptures to back this up. Musicians/Song leaders are MINISTERS too, we relay the Word as well to the congregation, just like the Preacher. Thanks for this video
If this hurt anyone then its the truth cox truth always hurt.... I think pastors need to hear this cox God those not ordained a pastor to get paid...
The problem with the church is that they demand Beyonce like musicianship for nothing. If you want to give mediocre pay, then stop demanding Beyonce level instrumentation
This!!! 🎯🎯🎯🎯
@@prettysimplemusic
LOLGod bless yah Bro KC.. (Bro I literally have an entire spreadsheet for pricing commensurate with churches from small to Mega and Arenas) … you articulated your points perfectly, problem is most church folk are scared to say what you said because they don’t understand Gods Word and Balance as it relates to this topix. Also to many musicians are copy cats. There’s no individuality anymore. There should be something unique about YOU. When ever I tune to your channel however, you ain’t afraid to be different and that is fresh air. You don’t care what the latest keyboard is, you do you. I cant tell you how many church cats I see who have a nord just cuz somebody they saw has a nord or a motif, or something like mike bereal has from Roland, or keyscape just cuz someone else has. Bro and Sistah if you wanna have any of these, cool, but get your own sound. When prince was alive. Something he told musicians that thought they’d sound like him wit a purple guitar is, master “your” instrument. Enough of my rant I’m back lol. But check me out at (realbnice) on IG. I also own Listentoplay.com. I’m gonna start posting my music stuff soon bro, I have a keyboard no one has that I took a risk on and mastered, because I sought my own sound and dared to be different. I have studied apologetics since the age of 15 and was classical trained at age of 7. I’ve also Directed entire shows at places like Strathmore Music and Arts Center same stage Brian Mcknicght Performed on.
Totally do not agree!
Electricians are not a part of the church they are building.
Most Church musicians are a part of the church they are playing for.
I am missing wanting to give something back to the church who gives you the gospel.
In our church everyone comes to the meeting to give! No one just goes there to get something for themselves and then leave.
People are along in prayer, testifying, music, setting up chairs etc.
Also electricians, carpenters voluntarily help with fixing stuff in the church.
Me as a musician am immensely grateful I can give something back of what I have been given by God
And of course some of the tasks are a fulltime job, they should get paid like Paul got paid for traveling around
Thanks! Again, as stated this was intended for top high demand musicians, not volunteer level musicians (they should be free with maybe doughnuts and juice) - this is for those who are highly skilled and well trained like the Levites… Much love ☀️💚
@@prettysimplemusic thanks for the response!
Are you talking about musician's traveling around from church to church? Or about musician's committed to one Church
The Levites lived in the old covenant where they could only get earthly blessings
We are in the new covenant and are aiming for blessings in eternity!
Im from a church with over 500 members who all do their part.
Got a few people who are professional musicians and are happy to do their part!
We have a choir that practices ones a week and a band who also practices ones a week
Everybody practices their pieces at home to perform at feast's and meetings.
Highly skilled and trained musicians with Degrees.
Some travel one hour to get to the meetings and Practices
But they do it voluntarily and are happy to do it.
God only wants gifts you can give with happiness
Church musicians should of formed a Union just like The Sag Union for Writer's and actor's.
That would be dope!! Like barbers have set a new standard! Some even charge a $100 haircut! 😳😳😳
@@prettysimplemusic Yeah ain't no more 20 dollar barber's. A lot of times musicians undercut each other instead of looking at the bigger picture of fairness for all musicians. I think I could form a union in Chicago but I think a few pastor's, Bishop's and missionaries might put a curse on me....
I don't advocate doing this, but in some instances, this does need to happen, unfortunately. Some churches have the means to do better by their workers and just don't. In that case...a union would be a great thing!
@@GatorTex The biggest issue with starting a Union are the organist slash keyboard players most are not team players and perfectly happy being paid 200 to 1000k a week while the drummer gets 50 to 150 a week. Divide and conquer works. 70 percent of the time the drummers, bass guitar or lead guitar players are equal or better than the organists or keyboard players as musicians.
Music is a profession like any other. Pay them properly!
This is great info and well put across. I am currently having a struggle with church folks inviting me to play-Funerals, Memorials, Thanksgivings and not giving a cent even though one brother I recently played at, boasted about the amount of money he just made working overtime. I guess he did not realize he was working me overtime. So I am currently making a list of stingy brethren to avoid in future. 😀. Music ministry takes money and yes-focus, if the minister wants to perform at the highest possible level. Donations act as an encouragement to maintain that excellence.
Nah you can just refuse the invitations
Ask them how it will go without your input. How much they would then pay an outsider to step in. Then say take it or leave it
This seems very strange. I've thought about it a lot, but.... God gave you salvation and eternal life for free, and now you're trying to bill him when your life and musical gifts are completely God-given - is that what it looks like? It looks like an attempt to sell to God what he gave you for free out of love. If he gave it all to you out of unconditional Love, why shouldn't the musicians praise and worship him in the same way, unconditionally? It looks similar to smth like a trading relationship between the Father and his children but not imitating God unconditional Love. And Matthew 6:24 and Mathew 6:33 are good in this context, I think.
So the electric company and water company need to provide their services for FREE because Jesus died on the cross?!??!? 😂😂😂😂
@@prettysimplemusic That what Jesus said that this world owes smth to you? Or Bible says that? Ask yourself a question. Who promised to you all that you believe you will get from God...This world or Jesus? Didn't he say that in the world you will have tribulation? But nowhere in the Bible you will find information about trade relations between brothers and sisters in the faith, in Acts it is written that everything was in common in the church. I believe that the salary of a musician should not be discussed, it should be provided to him simply because he is part of a community in which in ancient times everything belonged to all members of the community, and was given to each according to his needs.
@@prettysimplemusic Just a logical question, KC: If you glorify and worship God and not the church, why should you be paid by the church leadership and not by God himself?
@@HarmoniqMusiq *God himself? Please tell me you didn't mean that literally 😂*
@@Dadee3 Example. If you worked in a factory, would you be paid by your co-workers, or by the head of the factory, whose tasks you would perform? I think that the monetary system in the church system can greatly damage the relationship between brothers and sisters, because their communication will not be based on the knowledge of Christ and his care through faith, but on the basis of who owes whom and how much for anything in church life. I think it would be superfluous to give an example of what love can be like, when that love begins to set conditions. I know people who really thinking about that type of questions: If you believe God for everything, why are you trying to get it from His people? It feels like KC wants to say that if the church doesn't pay him, he won't glorify God with music.
That is the best discourse I've heard on why musicians should be paid as well as taking care of pastors. Really well said! Love it
The fact this is still a conversation in 2023 is the craziest part
You can't have no black Cogic, Baptist church service without a drummer.
Facts! But with the right clappers and a good churchy drum loop… you can definitely make it through the service!!!! Drummers in the black church ARE ESSENTIAL!!!! 🔥🔥🔥
@@prettysimplemusic Them Clappers sound absolutely harsh sonically without a live drummer playing over them. I've never heard a drum loop involving a actual bass drum, snare, toms, cymbals playing a actual drum beat in place of a absent drummer in a big church service. It would be easier to just sing over a entire instrumental then to drive to sing over strictly drum loops with a band.
Great message. According to scripture.
Thanks my brother!! Much love ☀️💚
🤔Well...the bible said that the Levites belonged to the Lord; and when the tribe of Isreal were receiving inheritance the Levites were not allowed to take an inheritance bc the House of God was their inheritance they did not depart from the House of the Lord, so there needs were met through the house of the Lord. Now that means that the Levites were not playing gigs for r&b artist's, or at the club,😬 bc they were santified unto the Lord. Whelp; it is rare to find those kinds of musicians today😶
That's the exact point if you do pay them well, they need not play them rnb gigs. They got bills to pay
As a guitarist I have a $1,700 custom built guitar, a cheap amp costing around $400. About $2,000 worth of pedals on my pedalboard and years and years of practice and experience. ALLLLL that but the ONE thing I DON'T have is time to really fine tune my craft. I tell my former students all the time "music is a talent with an expiration date" if you don't use your gift every single day for hours each day. You WILL get sloppy and rusty. I think paying a musician only makes a better musician. To your first point. If we're focused on everything BUT perfecting our craft than we're loosing the game. It's hard to balance ministry, family, a career all while bettering your craft.
Exactly!
Great content. If the church sets expectations for the musician, he should be paid. If the musician and come and go with no expectations, it is up to the church if they want to pay. But they will never have a strong consistent music ministry. Some ministries do not care, so must have musicians.
2:43. Buddy. I agree with you 100% until you said CCM musicians aren’t skilled. All musicians are skilled all singers are skilled. All musicians in the church community should be paid. Maybe that musician who is playing CCM does so because they choose to, but are overly skilled for that genre. There is more to musicianship than what chords you play. Some of the greatest songs in history are three chords. The chords maybe easy but the feeling they produce is from skill. But on a positive note, thank you for speaking the truth regarding church musician pay.
Yessir. Thanks… But, in my defense, I never said CCM musicians weren’t skilled, Gospel musicians are just rare to find with the ability to play gospel chops in various flow & improv moments. Most CCM songs are pattern based not groove and vibe based, which is technically more difficult to learn than the typical pattern with a few nuances and effects here and there…. Definitely not a battle but just a placement of improvisation and impromptu flow and chops…
If you volunteer for a role, but it morphs into more than you thought it would require, or your life circumstances mean it’s requiring more from you than you deem appropriate then talk with whoever is in charge. It’s probably time for that role to become better defined. If it’s unpaid and there’s no contract then you are under no obligation to continue at all - even if you feel pressure, it’s not your job or your responsibility!! Imagine you turned up to a clothes shop and started folding clothes and putting them back on the hanger. Of course, the shopkeeper would appreciate that, they might even lay off a paid member of staff to make way for you! Eventually, you get sucked into doing it every day from 9 to 5. Everybody assumes that it’s your job - but it isn’t!
Well said!
People’s time, money and effort are valuable. Unless they SPECIFICALLY state that they wish to donate them as part of their financial support of the church?
They need to be paid…and it is exploiting them not to do it. The church shouldn’t expect services for free simply because it is a church.
facts
CCM is very underestimated by gospel musicians. They think it's easy but a lot of what I've seen from gospel musicians trying to play CCM is just chopping over everything. CCM requires intentionality and practice. Much more discipline. Not saying this is the case 100% of the time but in many cases its true.
CCM requires discipline, humility, and spiritual maturity… Gospel requires sensitivity to a raw, unscripted flow with the ability to add spice and flare as needed… CCM can be learned much MUCH quicker and has repetitive monotony in chords and patterns… hence you’ll find more Gospel musicians that can shift into CCM than CCM musicians that can shift into a Gospel environment. I can appreciate and value both… but there’s a significant difference of skill and agility that requires to become a gospel musician.
Honestly, I used to think that we should all serve for God and God will provide. Basically, work for free and be grateful. As I grew and read the bible, this was not the case, as we have to value people time, skillset and ability and place value on this accordingly.
The issue I have is what I call "Gospel Mercenaries". Great, top-level musicians and singers who go from church to church and only take their wages and build no connection with the church(es). It can get so bad that the church has to schedule an early worship service to accommodate the musicians and singers. I believe if the church wants to pay the musicians and singers, go for it. However, it is a ministry. You should see investments in the community, discipleship in building the next generation of musicians and singers, and growth in their mastery of flow of the service where you can see the holy spirit more so than the wow, he is a great musician or singer (WOW vs POWer section you mentioned). This should be the focus and if it takes a wage, so be it but it is really about your intention and heart. Is your prayer, practice and study all to make a wage or make a difference?
There's maturity in what you're saying. You grow as you read and understand the Word of God. Well said.
I hear people on here saying its wrong for musicians to get paid. If thats the case then why would you go buy a cd of john p kee or fred hammond or whoever. If you take that position then youre hypocritical if you buy any gospel cd, td jakes dvd, etc. Theres absolutely no difference
That's a great point... I never thought of that - gospel artists and album sales...
KC, God bless you for this video. I've been an advocate of this for years but some pastors are the problem cos they look down on our profession. Thank you bro
Thanks so much for watching my brother! Much love ☀️💚
Hey, KC. Can you please tell me what are good mics for churches?
Great sir you just said everything I'm a student and a musician a keyboardist at my church but all these years being there i not being paid a dine as a form of appreciation,,,, i think I'm going to share this to my pastor and other fellow musicians out there suffering
very unwise.....Better to be paid by God than by Man....... you wouldnt know I believed this based on my other comments in this same thread.... But we must feed milk to those who require it....and meat for those who may have started getting their teeth.
it is not unwise
Hey there I'm a Piano player and I am paid. being paid supports a musician in his/her life outside of church
Absolutely my friend!!!
KC, I think you need to re-think your definition of CCM. The kind of music that you say these so-called "CCM churches" are playing I would not consider to be CCM. I would just call it Prasie Music and leave it at that. My concept of CCM is how it was played and back in the 70s, 80s and early 90s. That is what I'd call Classic CCM.
Hi! I never referenced “Classic” CCM… I’m clearly referring CCM. Contemporary Christian Music… Google “CCM Songs for 2023” The churches that sing these songs are precisely who I’m referring to. Much love ☀️💚
@@prettysimplemusic FYI: Hillsong, Elevation and Bethel are not CCM.
Thank you for this video! I still work not fulltime but enough to be able to do a few extra things but glory to God that the ministry thinks it not robbery to invest in me. And it gives me time to rest-recoup-perform duties without worry. I wanna be like KC when i grow up but anyways. The bible say to be content with what you have. And because of me being able to focus. I was able to accept award this past weekend for songwriter and i didnt have to say oh i gotta go to work cant attend that appreciation moment. So im just grateful! To God be the Glory!
My dad had a very small and beginning church and I was holding down services with terrible drum skills, because thats all we had. If theres a will theres a way 😂
Man, This Is Vital Information and I am a drummer. I play both CCM and Gospel. I don’t know if you have a video discussing how Worship Leaders and MD’s need to get the music to the band in timely manner. I have a day job besides drums and I am Old School where I know listening to the Words of the song is important as learning the drum parts.
This man inspires me to keep practicing. Love your spirit bro!
*Totally agree. Work on your craft and most importantly be DEPENDABLE.*
That word right there: DEPENDABLE 🔥🔥🔥
Muy importante, aunque no entiendo perfectamente el inglés, pero he leído los comentarios traducidos en español.
May God continue to bless you. Great content and very good ideas!
Ah thanks so much!! Much love and many blessings to you! ☀️💚
Wooooow !!! Thank you for this video @KC
Absolutely!! Thanks so much for watching, much love! ☀️💚
A pat on the back doesn't buy gas
Really? I can’t believe I’m seeing this. There is nothing I can do to repay what God did for me, even if I were a professional musician, I wouldn't charge a single dollar, I couldn't
Its true Sir.... bcoz if im not payed ill wonder around...the reality is back home there a bills and mouths to feed...and i hv to be presentable as im in front as im ministering with you my Pastor...and my commitment can make the church stable...i think i add value to the kingdom of God...when the livites where not suported they left the temple...thats what is happening now.. most Pastors are working bcoz they get no real support ...even ushers and media team and worshippers if not working at the moment ...the congregants must take notice and help where they can...yes they are serving bt there are needs that abvious...myb you see that one is always wearing the same shoes or same jacket...that means there is a need there plz brederens try and help each other Amen...
Respect to the information shared. I disagree with one thing. A keyboard player can play without a drummer but it’s not effective. Yes you can use a track but eventually you’ll have to stop that track to change the tempo because the song has changed. That’s like having a body without a heartbeat
ALL FACTS!!!! I was just ranking off of most essential and necessary during each part of the service… like talk music and prayer music…
truth
Actually you can run a service with just a drummer! I've been doing it for 15 years!!! LOL Just the Praise Team and Me! But in all seriousness, my Apostle takes great care of me. There is not one need that hasn't been met for me. But now I run the entire service myself musically using Prime. I still play the drums of course but I use Prime for music through the whole service. It's fun and I love what I do!!!
Exactly my bro! There’s no worship flow with just drums! Gotta have keys (or stems in your case) as the foundation to have a flow
Music is a ministry and what we have today is entertainer's, performer's, artists, celebrities, talented
There are so many different ways to view this, and a lot of personal investment on multiple sides of the issue. So I struggle with just having one hard and fast rule for everyone.
That said, I think the real question is: is our worship music important enough to hire professional-level players to do it? I have a real hard time with the folks who say our music doesn’t need to be good or well executed. We’re offering it to God, it should be as good as we can make it!
I think you hit on the real issue which gets to the root of the matter
We can worship God just fine with one amateur playing the piano or the acoustic guitar when you really think about it
Exactly! Does God deserve the scraps or the best?
THANK YOU, for all of this and all that you are teaching. It's so nice to know that others see things, as I do.
Excellent break down brother thanks for sharing and as a fellow musician I'll like to add like anything you get what you pay for
BIBLICAL COMPARRISION OF LEVITES
You are comparing the wrong group of people if you wanted to use an Old Testament example. You should be using David and His worship unto the Lord...not the Levites. David worshiped God from his heart and danced and praised God without reservation. Levites were Gods vessels seperated for His purpose.
When we worship, it is us giving glory from our heart to God. The levites were used for the service of the temple to make away for Israel to come into the precense of God The Father. That was done away with when Jesus came. It is thru Jesus, we today have access to the Father. He is the Great High Priest. We are to be like David with a pure and contrite heart. That is what God DESIRES!
Check these verses.
ISAIAH 57:15- God dwells among them!
PSALMS 51:17- GOD WILL NOT DESPISE.
If we require money for our services, we want to share in the glory given to God. The question we need to ourselves: WHERE DOES OUR WORSHIP STEM FROM? FROM A PLACE OF PRIDE OF MY SKILLS OR FROM A CONTRITE HEART.
kC, you are truly blessed! I played at a Church over 20 years. Their outings, rehearsals, funerals and Church Services were all inclusive within the pay. After being loyal and dedicated to this one church they take it upon themselves to move rehearsal days so it doesn't fit my schedule. The pay wasn't even $400/wk and they taxed what they gave me. So I came to the conclusion that this situation was not going to work for me and parted ways.