As for the dodgy Ringfield, you could've sent it off to 00Bill to have a look. The amount of old models, including ones with Ringfield motors, he's brought back from the dead is a number unheard of. He's a wizard. I'd recommend you watch some of his servicing videos. They're fantastic to watch.
I used the spare pickups from original Hornby Class 58s (after replacing the motor bogies with the later type) to make extra pickups for the Lima Class 37 / 47 that only had pickup on one side of the trailing bogies.
Hi mate just bought four ! In all sorts of conditions, haven’t done trains for over 30 odd years haven’t looked at them yet inside and that has just clued me up big time before I start digging in mate 👍
Cool video. I'm going to try and convert mine to a centre drive motor powering both bogies. I've also got etched brass cooling fan covers and will try to put a headlight and marker lights at one end.
@@LittleWicketRailway Well, your video inspired me to get out the old bachmann class 37 with a running problem (ebay disaster from years ago) as I was (am) going to use it to donate its bogie towers to the cause. Offering the two bogies up to each other they look a fair match, the Cl58 wheels being just a little smaller than the 37's. Looking up www.clag.org.uk the wheels on the Class 58 are 1120mm (roughly 3'8") and the Cl37 are 3'7" (some sources have 3'9"). I think I'm going to need to get these measured and figure out what is correct. The bachmann motor is a little big though I have a few class 158 motors spare that are smaller. I'll just need to get a bit of steel to shape and run through the body for mounting everything. The other thing to note from clag.org.uk is that the Cl58 has uneven axle spacings on the real ones [edit] and this is replicated on the Hornby model. So the bachmann 37 bogie towers are not going line up with the Hornby bogie frames. I'm thinking the only way to do this will be two Hornby motor bogies and try to convert the motor into a driveshaft connection. But then at £158 for the EFE model, the alternative is very expensive.
Hi. At time 14.04 in the video you manage to get cab off in the speeded up sequence. I am struggling with this bit as want to fit lights in cab. Any ideas. Did you just push it hard?
The motor on mine is different. Mine is from 1987 midnight freight. She’s not a great runner and I’m watching to learn to rejuvenate her. Really enjoy your videos. New sub.
@@GDGRailway47712 Yes the 2nd type of motor bogie looks more reliable; you need to cut out the rib in the motor bogie area to fit the later bogies in the original Hornby 58.
One thing about British model OO diesels they use those little slot car motors. In America you NEVER see those in HO scale diesel engines (for those who don't know in the UK HO, or 1/87th scale, is the North American equivalent to European OO. It's a bit smaller than OO but they can still use each other's trackage). Not even in the smallest HO switcher/shunter locomotives use them. Those motors are only used in low cost N scale locomotives and HO slot cars because they are so weak and subject to burnout pushing a heavy OO lock. Isn't there a substitute that can be used. I would suggest trying to fix that body if only to practice fabricating your own pieces.
It's not a great motor, that's for sure. I watched a video from Sam's Trains the other day where he shows how easy it is for them to overheat and stop working.
I remember spotting 001 just after they had been released for revenue working, think I was on a train to Scotland and there she was with a rake of hoppers all gleamy and looking weird. I used to travel to Scotland on the WCML and come back to London via the ECML and was a spotter's dream journey.
Hi Rob, A very interesting video, and I share Arrow 1's comment that the motor is not suitable for an OO/HO locomotive, maybe a 1/64 slot car or Z scale locomotive. On Ebay you can find 10mm, 15mm and 18mm square profile four magnet motors made by Mineabea and Mabuchi for very reasonable prices. These are automotive grade motors. Very powerful, efficient and reliable. The Mabuchi SF-266-SA is the go to motor for HO scale steam locomotive repowering in the USA. It spins at 7200 rpm at 12V. It is a single shaft design. It works well in model locomotives in the 250g to 1kg range. The Mineabea four magnet motor model names start with SE followed by 10, 15, 18, 24 etc which represent the cross section square. For example a SE15 is 15mm square. Different versions of a SE15 maybe different lengths. These motors are very reasonably priced because they are over runs from production orders from automotive manufacturers. You can get an app for your phone to measure motor rpm. Keep up the great videos.
@@LittleWicketRailway I am not any good at copy&paste on my phone, so this had to wait. I get most of my motors from: www.ebay.com/usr/hello_alian He also stocks a variety of useful electronic items.
My dad replaced the motor in my Hornby Class 58s with the Anchorage DS10, a more or less straight swap with a bit of plastic card as a spacer. Much more powerful and better running / haulage!
Great video thanks! I also have a 35 year old rail freight 58 with a horizontal motor and all the gears and serviced it just last night. However the motor still is not 100% as the loco judders a little. I have a second 58 coal livery with the newer vertical motor which runs perfectly. Can I ask your advice? Do the motors sometimes just wear out and need replacing? If so, would you buy a new motor, or look for a newer vertical type bogie with motor (which appear to run better in any case). Thanks in advance for any advice :)
Hi Adrian, thanks for watching! I'll start by saying that I'm sure there are people with far more experience on the subject than me who may want to offer their advice, but motor performance can deteriorate with age or use and the Type 7 (no idea why it's called that) has a bad reputation, but I think that's maining for being a bit weak for the size of the loco. You can get complete failures like in the video (where the magic smoke escapes). I had a motor in a class 08 (same motor as in the class 58 I think) where just one of the thin wires around the windings had come unsoldered, that caused jumping because effectively the motor was only working with 2/3rds of it functioning and paused briefly each turn. In that case I was able to see where the wire had come away and resolder it. I've also heard that sometimes the magnets lose their magnetism which can cause issues, but I've not experienced that myself. Afraid I've no experience with the vertical motor. If you think it's the motor causing the issue then there's no reason you wouldn't be able to replace it like in the video and get smooth running back. They should last a good number of years especially because it sounds like you take good care of them. It's probably cheaper than getting an entire new bogie. Should just say thought that it's not always the motor that causes jumping. Could be anything from dirty wheeels, pickup alignment or worn/damaged gears (as you can see in the Princess Royal Class repair video ua-cam.com/video/ofX96A49YvQ/v-deo.html). On a related note I've heard that the modern Hornby motors are designed to be binned and replaced rather than repaired (may need to fact check this) and I've seen that some people are stocking up on replacement motors just in case they're hard to get hold of in the future.
@@LittleWicketRailway Thank you so much for that detailed reply! And that's cool about fixing the coil, I'll have a look at that as well. I have been searching for the motor but everywhere seems out of stock at the moment, so waiting for some to come in. I also realised I have an 08 that has a broken shell, so may try and repurpose that - as well as buy another 58 or 08 on ebay and take the motor from that :) I don't mind if Hornby make the new motors expendable as long as they keep them in stock! And how I wish they just used one standard type of motor... :)
@@adriancorcoran Cool, let me know how you get on. I bought this ebay.us/VN2RaG and took the motor out. The price seems to have gone up and you obviously don't need the frame and pick ups. So might not be ideal. I went for this because it was obviously designed for model railways so likely to be the right voltage and RPM. There are much cheaper versions out there that might be suitable, but I couldn't say for sure. Also, most have long delivery times from China. Try searching for "Mini 18mm Square Bare Motor DC 3V 4.5V 6V 9V 12V High Speed DIY RC Toy Slot Car". I think these would fit and if you can get a 12V version then it should be up to the job, might be worth a punt for just over £1. Be really interested to know if they work. Double check on the class 08 motor being the same, it was quite some time ago that I fixed it. I think they were similar, but can't be sure. Don't want you buying a class 08 and finding it's totally different. A mint condition Midnight Freight set, complete with buildings, went for £49 on Ebay earlier. I was very tempted to buy another one! Someone got a bargain!
Hi Martin, Try searching for this in ebay "NEW HORNBY 0-6-0 MOTOR X1846 & FRAME X1847 X3409 X8200 X1844 etc SPARES REPAIR" this is what I used. The price seems to have gone up and you obviously don't need the frame and pick ups. So might not be ideal. I went for this because it was obviously designed for model railways so likely to be the right voltage and RPM. There are much cheaper versions out there that might be suitable, but I couldn't say for sure. Also, most have long delivery times from China. Try searching for "Mini 18mm Square Bare Motor DC 3V 4.5V 6V 9V 12V High Speed DIY RC Toy Slot Car". I think these would fit and if you can get a 12V version then it should be up to the job, might be worth a punt for just over £1. Be really interested to know if they work.
@@LittleWicketRailway Thanks for your comprehensive answer; that's something to be getting on with. There don't appear to be many vids dealing with this particular incarnation of the 58, so finding your's is a major step forward for me.
@@LittleWicketRailway Hello just chiming in here with what might be useful info for others....I had a poorly running class 58 and searched for a cheap motor of that variety from China, ordering the 3-12V model from here: www.ebay.co.uk/itm/254685973015. It was about £1 plus £1 postage and came in about 10 days. It looked exactly the same size though slightly different design at the back end. When I tired to fit it, I found the front bearing outer was 5mm diameter vs 4.5mm for the original and it did not sit perfectly in the front holder(s). I was not keen to modify the loco (and being only a couple of quid) I chose to very carefully filed the outer of the new motor - down to about 4.5mm using needle files. I fitted the worm and everything and now have a good running class 58. So - thanks for your video. Must learn how to fit lights to the various locos I have ....
Instead of replacing the body, you could've simply filled in the gap with some putty-poo. :3 Although a respray would've probably been needed afterwards.
Great suggestion, it's ordered. I wanted to get some cheap foam cradling from a DIY store, the stuff used to protect the edges of wood, etc. but lockdown hasn't allowed. Under £7 for the official peco version isn't too bad though.
That would be the infamous cheap and nasty Hornby type7 motor. It's actually a cheap knock off of a Japanese Mabutchi SH-030SA-08240 motor and if you can get the real thing the your models will be all the better for it as it is much better quality.
@@LittleWicketRailway No not really it is just how Hornby describe it in their catalogues. Dapol apparently use the real motor in their class 14xx but Hornby changed it when they bought the tooling.
I've got a mabuchi one, can see it written on the plastic cap but it's not got the same connectors. Hard to describe but it just has a copper bar across the back that then contact with copper connectors from the spades. It looks identical in all but this. Model is 58007 r.250
@@LittleWicketRailway and i love that loco design has that very bashfully british look to it XD and to see it live again after such a calous act of vandalism done to it is beautiful
Hornby throw away motors great idea?? Everybody does it now! The Hornby 58 was a real game changing model way back it its day and probably more reliable than the real thing?
What a cheap set up .Looks like a slot car motor used way back in the US.Hope they improved on that .If not, whoever approved that for a model train motor drive should be punched in the nose!
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
As for the dodgy Ringfield, you could've sent it off to 00Bill to have a look. The amount of old models, including ones with Ringfield motors, he's brought back from the dead is a number unheard of. He's a wizard. I'd recommend you watch some of his servicing videos. They're fantastic to watch.
I used the spare pickups from original Hornby Class 58s (after replacing the motor bogies with the later type) to make extra pickups for the Lima Class 37 / 47 that only had pickup on one side of the trailing bogies.
Pleasant voice pattern. very detailed, appreciate the time taken on a super video
Thanks Robert 👍
Hi mate just bought four ! In all sorts of conditions, haven’t done trains for over 30 odd years haven’t looked at them yet inside and that has just clued me up big time before I start digging in mate 👍
Four! That's a lot of 58s! Welcome back to the hobby!
Excellent job, thanks for sharing.
Thanks Ron 👍
I’ve got about 5 of these from various 2nd hand shops and model shows don’t think one of em runs properly, but man I love em
Cool video. I'm going to try and convert mine to a centre drive motor powering both bogies. I've also got etched brass cooling fan covers and will try to put a headlight and marker lights at one end.
Wow, that's a massive upgrade. Let me know how you get on.
@@LittleWicketRailway Well, your video inspired me to get out the old bachmann class 37 with a running problem (ebay disaster from years ago) as I was (am) going to use it to donate its bogie towers to the cause. Offering the two bogies up to each other they look a fair match, the Cl58 wheels being just a little smaller than the 37's.
Looking up www.clag.org.uk the wheels on the Class 58 are 1120mm (roughly 3'8") and the Cl37 are 3'7" (some sources have 3'9"). I think I'm going to need to get these measured and figure out what is correct. The bachmann motor is a little big though I have a few class 158 motors spare that are smaller. I'll just need to get a bit of steel to shape and run through the body for mounting everything.
The other thing to note from clag.org.uk is that the Cl58 has uneven axle spacings on the real ones [edit] and this is replicated on the Hornby model. So the bachmann 37 bogie towers are not going line up with the Hornby bogie frames. I'm thinking the only way to do this will be two Hornby motor bogies and try to convert the motor into a driveshaft connection.
But then at £158 for the EFE model, the alternative is very expensive.
Hi. At time 14.04 in the video you manage to get cab off in the speeded up sequence. I am struggling with this bit as want to fit lights in cab. Any ideas. Did you just push it hard?
Very nice detail video ,keep up the great work ,lam thinking about buying me some Hornby Trains !?
Thanks Lorie. Do you have any models at the moment?
The motor on mine is different. Mine is from 1987 midnight freight. She’s not a great runner and I’m watching to learn to rejuvenate her. Really enjoy your videos. New sub.
Thanks Lee! Does your have the motor that goes straight up on the bogie?
Yep, they changed them later on for a new motor design. The gearing on the later ones was lower (slower) to improve haulage capacity.
@@GDGRailway47712 Yes the 2nd type of motor bogie looks more reliable; you need to cut out the rib in the motor bogie area to fit the later bogies in the original Hornby 58.
One thing about British model OO diesels they use those little slot car motors. In America you NEVER see those in HO scale diesel engines (for those who don't know in the UK HO, or 1/87th scale, is the North American equivalent to European OO. It's a bit smaller than OO but they can still use each other's trackage). Not even in the smallest HO switcher/shunter locomotives use them. Those motors are only used in low cost N scale locomotives and HO slot cars because they are so weak and subject to burnout pushing a heavy OO lock. Isn't there a substitute that can be used.
I would suggest trying to fix that body if only to practice fabricating your own pieces.
It's not a great motor, that's for sure. I watched a video from Sam's Trains the other day where he shows how easy it is for them to overheat and stop working.
great video, i am putting a better body on mine, now know how to do it!
The pick up bogie looks like it's the same as the power bogie. Could you put an additional motor in and have a dual motored loco for extra haulage?
I've not double checked, but I think you probably could do something like this 👍
@@LittleWicketRailway yup one of mine has 2 power bogies however it’s the worse runner out of the bunch
Great Video, looking forward to lots more
Awesome, thank you!
I had one of these!
I have one, and now I know what to do if it breaks down! Cheers!
Thanks. Hopefully yours will never need repairing, all those little plastic clips feel like they're going to snap at any moment.
I remember spotting 001 just after they had been released for revenue working, think I was on a train to Scotland and there she was with a rake of hoppers all gleamy and looking weird. I used to travel to Scotland on the WCML and come back to London via the ECML and was a spotter's dream journey.
Sounds like a lot of rail travel, good job you liked trains!
Very interesting Rob.
Just a thought. Wouldn't it have been easier to just fill in the missing "chunk" with a little Milliput?
Beyond my abilities I think. I might have a try on my cracked class 25. It's getting the paint to match that I'd worry about.
@@LittleWicketRailway you'd be well able for it, paint is easy enough to match
Hi Rob,
A very interesting video, and I share Arrow 1's comment that the motor is not suitable for an OO/HO locomotive, maybe a 1/64 slot car or Z scale locomotive.
On Ebay you can find 10mm, 15mm and 18mm square profile four magnet motors made by Mineabea and Mabuchi for very reasonable prices. These are automotive grade motors. Very powerful, efficient and reliable. The Mabuchi SF-266-SA is the go to motor for HO scale steam locomotive repowering in the USA. It spins at 7200 rpm at 12V. It is a single shaft design. It works well in model locomotives in the 250g to 1kg range. The Mineabea four magnet motor model names start with SE followed by 10, 15, 18, 24 etc which represent the cross section square. For example a SE15 is 15mm square. Different versions of a SE15 maybe different lengths. These motors are very reasonably priced because they are over runs from production orders from automotive manufacturers.
You can get an app for your phone to measure motor rpm.
Keep up the great videos.
Thanks Nigel. Very useful info 👍
@@LittleWicketRailway I am not any good at copy&paste on my phone, so this had to wait. I get most of my motors from: www.ebay.com/usr/hello_alian He also stocks a variety of useful electronic items.
My dad replaced the motor in my Hornby Class 58s with the Anchorage DS10, a more or less straight swap with a bit of plastic card as a spacer. Much more powerful and better running / haulage!
can you tell me the name and model no looked every where for one its for the 58001 many thanks John
This is Hornby R250. If you ever need details about a model then this site is really useful www.modelraildatabase.com/locomotives/
Great video thanks! I also have a 35 year old rail freight 58 with a horizontal motor and all the gears and serviced it just last night. However the motor still is not 100% as the loco judders a little. I have a second 58 coal livery with the newer vertical motor which runs perfectly.
Can I ask your advice? Do the motors sometimes just wear out and need replacing? If so, would you buy a new motor, or look for a newer vertical type bogie with motor (which appear to run better in any case). Thanks in advance for any advice :)
Hi Adrian, thanks for watching!
I'll start by saying that I'm sure there are people with far more experience on the subject than me who may want to offer their advice, but motor performance can deteriorate with age or use and the Type 7 (no idea why it's called that) has a bad reputation, but I think that's maining for being a bit weak for the size of the loco.
You can get complete failures like in the video (where the magic smoke escapes). I had a motor in a class 08 (same motor as in the class 58 I think) where just one of the thin wires around the windings had come unsoldered, that caused jumping because effectively the motor was only working with 2/3rds of it functioning and paused briefly each turn. In that case I was able to see where the wire had come away and resolder it. I've also heard that sometimes the magnets lose their magnetism which can cause issues, but I've not experienced that myself. Afraid I've no experience with the vertical motor.
If you think it's the motor causing the issue then there's no reason you wouldn't be able to replace it like in the video and get smooth running back. They should last a good number of years especially because it sounds like you take good care of them. It's probably cheaper than getting an entire new bogie.
Should just say thought that it's not always the motor that causes jumping. Could be anything from dirty wheeels, pickup alignment or worn/damaged gears (as you can see in the Princess Royal Class repair video ua-cam.com/video/ofX96A49YvQ/v-deo.html).
On a related note I've heard that the modern Hornby motors are designed to be binned and replaced rather than repaired (may need to fact check this) and I've seen that some people are stocking up on replacement motors just in case they're hard to get hold of in the future.
@@LittleWicketRailway Thank you so much for that detailed reply! And that's cool about fixing the coil, I'll have a look at that as well. I have been searching for the motor but everywhere seems out of stock at the moment, so waiting for some to come in. I also realised I have an 08 that has a broken shell, so may try and repurpose that - as well as buy another 58 or 08 on ebay and take the motor from that :)
I don't mind if Hornby make the new motors expendable as long as they keep them in stock! And how I wish they just used one standard type of motor... :)
@@adriancorcoran Cool, let me know how you get on. I bought this ebay.us/VN2RaG and took the motor out. The price seems to have gone up and you obviously don't need the frame and pick ups. So might not be ideal. I went for this because it was obviously designed for model railways so likely to be the right voltage and RPM.
There are much cheaper versions out there that might be suitable, but I couldn't say for sure. Also, most have long delivery times from China. Try searching for "Mini 18mm Square Bare Motor DC 3V 4.5V 6V 9V 12V High Speed DIY RC Toy Slot Car". I think these would fit and if you can get a 12V version then it should be up to the job, might be worth a punt for just over £1. Be really interested to know if they work.
Double check on the class 08 motor being the same, it was quite some time ago that I fixed it. I think they were similar, but can't be sure. Don't want you buying a class 08 and finding it's totally different.
A mint condition Midnight Freight set, complete with buildings, went for £49 on Ebay earlier. I was very tempted to buy another one! Someone got a bargain!
@@LittleWicketRailway Thanks for that link and lots more info dude! Will let you know how it goes :)
Be interested to know what your eBay search criteria was for the new motor, because I've looked high and low!
Hi Martin,
Try searching for this in ebay "NEW HORNBY 0-6-0 MOTOR X1846 & FRAME X1847 X3409 X8200 X1844 etc SPARES REPAIR" this is what I used. The price seems to have gone up and you obviously don't need the frame and pick ups. So might not be ideal. I went for this because it was obviously designed for model railways so likely to be the right voltage and RPM.
There are much cheaper versions out there that might be suitable, but I couldn't say for sure. Also, most have long delivery times from China. Try searching for "Mini 18mm Square Bare Motor DC 3V 4.5V 6V 9V 12V High Speed DIY RC Toy Slot Car". I think these would fit and if you can get a 12V version then it should be up to the job, might be worth a punt for just over £1. Be really interested to know if they work.
@@LittleWicketRailway Thanks for your comprehensive answer; that's something to be getting on with. There don't appear to be many vids dealing with this particular incarnation of the 58, so finding your's is a major step forward for me.
@@LittleWicketRailway Hello just chiming in here with what might be useful info for others....I had a poorly running class 58 and searched for a cheap motor of that variety from China, ordering the 3-12V model from here: www.ebay.co.uk/itm/254685973015. It was about £1 plus £1 postage and came in about 10 days. It looked exactly the same size though slightly different design at the back end. When I tired to fit it, I found the front bearing outer was 5mm diameter vs 4.5mm for the original and it did not sit perfectly in the front holder(s). I was not keen to modify the loco (and being only a couple of quid) I chose to very carefully filed the outer of the new motor - down to about 4.5mm using needle files. I fitted the worm and everything and now have a good running class 58.
So - thanks for your video. Must learn how to fit lights to the various locos I have ....
Instead of replacing the body, you could've simply filled in the gap with some putty-poo. :3 Although a respray would've probably been needed afterwards.
Your in England get a Peco foam cradle !
Great suggestion, it's ordered. I wanted to get some cheap foam cradling from a DIY store, the stuff used to protect the edges of wood, etc. but lockdown hasn't allowed. Under £7 for the official peco version isn't too bad though.
Make your own from a large sponge the type used to wash cars with just cut a channel in it
I have an older model to this and I'm stuck with it.... very confusing lol
Midnight Freight Diesel 58 is my favourite and it's the bestest train ever
That would be the infamous cheap and nasty Hornby type7 motor. It's actually a cheap knock off of a Japanese Mabutchi SH-030SA-08240 motor and if you can get the real thing the your models will be all the better for it as it is much better quality.
Didn't know that, good tip! Any idea why it was called "type 7"?
@@LittleWicketRailway No not really it is just how Hornby describe it in their catalogues. Dapol apparently use the real motor in their class 14xx but Hornby changed it when they bought the tooling.
I've got a mabuchi one, can see it written on the plastic cap but it's not got the same connectors. Hard to describe but it just has a copper bar across the back that then contact with copper connectors from the spades. It looks identical in all but this. Model is 58007 r.250
12:25 Class 58: I LIVE AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!
😀
@@LittleWicketRailway and i love that loco design has that very bashfully british look to it XD and to see it live again after such a calous act of vandalism done to it is beautiful
have lot of older ringfield type motors and they are far more reliable
I've heard lots of people moan about the little Type 7 motor. Totally agree that a good old ringfield is better 👍
Hornby throw away motors great idea?? Everybody does it now! The Hornby 58 was a real game changing model way back it its day and probably more reliable than the real thing?
Haha, you might be right!
Can you let us know the eBay seller? If they describe that as VGC I think we need to avoid that seller.
Generally you get what you pay for.. Pay abit extra and save all the cost of fixing junk
Ah, but it's fun to fix things 😁🛠️
What a cheap set up .Looks like a slot car motor used way back in the US.Hope they improved on that .If not, whoever approved that for a model train motor drive should be punched in the nose!
I think you're right, very similar to slot car motors. Motors are much better these days, way more powerful and usually with flywheels.