About the Type Weaknesses/Resistance for Pokemon Trainer in Brawl, not only it crippled Ivysaur a lot due to the abundance of Fire Moves, but in contrast to Charizard and Squirtle, outside of a Mirror match and Kirby copying moves, there are literally 0 Grass moves that could cripple Squirtle in the same way, There's only one Water move outside Squirtle.... and it doesn't even deal damage, so the same is true for Charizard, as well that makes Ivysaur's supposed resistance almost non-existent. So Type Weaknesses/Resistance literally fails to even work as an downside for Charizard and Squirtle and an Upside for Ivysaur due to Water and Grass moves being almost non-existent. Another thing is that Type Weaknesses/Resistance is only isolated to the Fire, Grass and Water triangle, none of the other Weaknesses/Resistance for each type are included (they don't even have resistance to their own type) For example, if all of the Weaknesses/Resistance were implemented, a match between the Pokemon Trainer and Pikachu, Ivysaur would resist all of Pikachu's electric moves while Charizard and Squirtle would be cripple by it since they're weak to them (Charizard has Flying as Second Type)
SO, I was a Trainer main in brawl. I spent over 3000 hours learning that character, and let me tell you. None of the flaws listed for Ivysaur was the real reason they were bad. Stamina sucked, but ivysaur could still slowly wrack up damage with safe tilts, and backair strings. And you could kill off of a good read. The fire weakness sucked, It made Ivy functionally lighter than he should have been, but landing a hit on him in the first place was a pain. Ivy's neutral game was very good actually. The problem was THAT RECOVERY. One mistake and you'd explode. Brawl has a LOVELY edgegrab mechanic where only one person could grab ledge at a time. If Ivysaur was off stage, and the opponent grabbed ledge. Ivy can't up B. He falls to his death. Falco grabbed you at 0%? Time to get chaingrabbed to the edge of the stage, dair'ed, and you're dead 100% of the time. ZSS landed one stun on you? Time to get comboed off stage and die. Metaknight landed a single hit on you? Time to get comboed offstage and die. (or you get perma juggled by upairs lul) Tried to edgeguard and missed? The enemy grabs ledge before you and you die. Ivysaur had the worst recovery in smash bros history. You had to play SO careful with him because any mistake could be death. Even at 0%. He makes little mac's recovery look good. Playing Brawl Ivysuar for so long makes Ultimate Ivysuar feel like a cheat code.
While I personally prefer ledge hogging to ultimates ledge trumping. It’s clear that ivysaur was not designed with the mechanic in mind for brawl. Even in melee the worst recovery’s at least give you a couple mixups or attempts to recover before you actually bite it. IMO I would have liked to see ivysaur’s up b retain Melees tether mechanic to allow you to tether to the stage, would have given ivysaur a chance off stage.
There were other characters in Brawl like this. But in the case of ZSS she had flip jump, and for Olimar that Alien had 6 pikmin back in the day and tripping exists, so you were not reaching it in practice and didn't need to risk anything. Ivysaur's zoning is alright but unimpressive, so those grabs to death are going to happen often.
Seeing Bowser in Smash 4 and Ultimate get the buffs MagnuM, CHAOTIC, and I were saying he needed back in '06 and '07 was unreal, and I would have absolutely loved it if he'd retained most of his moveset. Don't get me wrong; I love Smash 4 and Ultimate Bowser, but I wish he could have gotten the buffs he did without completely changing up his moveset, posture, and model size. I'd have even been happy if he peaked at Melee Ganondorf tier levels if it meant I could have Melee and Brawl Bowser but actually decent.
Absolutely not. Bowser looked like stupid monster before and his colors were off, now he looks like Bowser’s actual character with more menacing face and animations
I do think he comes across a bit too upright and "human" in Smash 4 and Ultimate, but I'm glad he also doesn't come across as a fumbling dumb kaiju kind of creature anymore. I think if his idle stance was somewhere between Melee/Brawl and 4/Ultimate, it'd be perfect. Also, while his "skating" dash in Melee and Brawl is amusing, I am glad he runs properly now. I do miss his old down smash though, even if it was effectively his up special animation, and I wish he used his claws more.
Honestly even with the Smash 4 rework, Bowser needs a near complete overhaul. He doesn't act anything like Bowser does in the games, uses the same edited Jaguar roars he's used for decades, and he has minimal references to his appearances in his series, aside from down-b, breathing fire, and a few frames of his jab animation. Even using his shell more started in Smash, I appreciate the changes but he needs a rework. The only thing I would keep is his general grappler playstyle. Because I want my favorite character to be my favorite fighting game archetype
to be fair, its not the most original style in the world, the green screen thing was started by nakey jakey im pretty sure and other people like internet pitstop did it too. but i kinda like the vibe it gives to this style of video because it gives it more personality but thats just me
I actually duel main melee Roy and Marth depending on match ups and im actually super fast with both of them. Sheik is my secondary (fire emblem and zelda were my childhood so these characters are really close to my heart)
If you're going to create a sequel for this video, you have to mention the regional differences in SSB64 and the buffs/nerfs they indirectly gave to certain fighters. NTSC-J Donkey Kong and PAL (Australia) Link are particularly egregious examples, with Donkey Kong at one point (this may still be in effect) having no winning matchups against the others.
Maybe it's subjective but I can't agree universal 3 frame jump squat was an outright good change in Ultimate (but Bowser's is definitely too long in Melee) (also understand it wasn't the focus point of the video)
Ganon being so fucking bad for 4 games in a row (Brawl-3DS-WiiU-Ultimate) is one of the reasons I stopped playing. I really want to play as him but the insane power creep, specially in Ultimate's FP2 just made me stop caring because I finally accepted he's bad on purpose. Other heavies got the fixes they needed, like you pointed out with Bowser, but Ganon keeps being dogwater on purpose. I've been playing Smash since 64, and competitive since the Melee days. Ultimate made it clear that I'm no longer part of the intended audience. I'm suppossed to be cheering for Sora or some other playstation rep, idk. But I just want Ganon to be good, man.
I like ur videos, the editing is clean and the presentation is nice. It reminds me of Asumsaus, but I figured you probably heard that many times. But it is the highest of compliments lol. Although, I feel like I don’t need to see you to get the message. It doesn’t add anything imo. Also blocks the screen from what I’m supposed to see.
Actually, Smash is kindaa unique in that its a lot more punishing on big bodies than traditional fighters. Let me explain. In traditional fighters, big body characters can often times come with super armor, big moves, big health, and are even harder to combo and juggle cuz they jit the ground faster. Unlike smash where the weight enables for chaingrabs, in traditional fighters it often combos need to be cut short cuz traditional fighters are more about wobbling opponents in the air. Think of trad fighters like they have multiple falcons and they all like floaty characters. There are many great big body characters in other fighters due to the reasons i stated above. Look at MVC2's Sentinel, SF4's Sagat & Zangief, Bloody Roar Extreme's Stun, there's a big list of good big body characters. Smash is just very different in that regard.
he did, but it doesn't have a "tipper hitbox" like Marth does. Its legit weaker than marths. His strongest part of the sword is still the hilt, its just not a Marth Tipper in strength which kinda sucks.
I played with him so aggressively I never noticed. I took losses in stride and had a lot of fun when I knocked people out. I also probably never fought anyone who understood how to utilize Falco, Fox, Marth, or Falcon properly and _nobody_ I knew could get anything done as Sheik. And I'd usually win, trucking along with an aggressive Roy while sometimes aggressively running into a waiting Warlock Fist.
@@UmbraStarWolf Sakurai wanted to use Marth since the beginning, Nintendo wanted to put in Roy to promote Binding Blade which wasn't even released yet. It shows!!!!!
Unrelated to the video, but an idea for future content I think would be great is redoing your “Meet the Smash Brother” series, as rollback will be coming out soon(ish) and many people are gonna look at the game for the first time. So it would get clicks and help ppl get into the game too This video was good too! Like the content still, just weird seeing you in the videos now (not bad or anything, just different is all if that makes sense)
Hey, dont get me wrong, i think youre doing great with your videos, but i think taking an approach like AsumSaus where its just you talking would be better. It feels like im watching a professors presentation
With all due respect, the green screen segments aren't doing it for me. I have a hard time focusing on your voice and what you're saying when all I see is you awkwardly repeating the same repetitive hand motions over and over. I think it may help for it not to be full body and for yourself to be intermittent as opposed to so oppressively present.
I’ve noticed that there’s a common misconception that if a character is bad, they must be flawed or been done dirty. A good example of this is melee Zelda. She was meant to be a strong character that you pull out after using sheik to rack up damage. That gimmick was flawed and Sheik did everything Zelda was meant to and more. Ultimate Little Mac is different. Yeah he’s bad, but he wasn’t built to be a good character, he has his gimmick of being really good on the ground and worthless in the air. That’s not poor game design, that’s how he was meant to be. He isn’t flawed, he’s just doing his own thing. I often hear people complain about characters like him and how they should be fixed and made better, but bad characters don’t need to be good. If it isn’t them, it’s a different character at the bottom.
Little Mac is conceptually an excellent, speedy boxer, an underdog (he's usually fighting literal giants who tower over him at easily twice his height), and a very _grounded_ person lacking in the explicit superpowers of other videogame protagonists. Smash did his concept perfectly, including not overcorrecting his lack of air game and range by making him _too_ good on the ground to the point he stops feeling like a fairly realistic punchy man. Little Mac does give me a fun idea to do some power scaling and figure out how Mike Tyson would work as a Smash character.
He is still wierd though, like even if that was the plan that's not even how punch out works so what gives? He should be based around finding openings and dodging when he currently just tanks things with armour and spams smash attacks, he CAN play more carefuly for sure, but he isnt really made with that in mind, especially with things like ko punch charging from getting hit a lot quicker for some reason
I really don't get your point. Why would you want to make a character bad? Like little mac is not a joke character like Pichu, and even then, they fixed him to make him good? Getting "done dirty" can mean a lot of things to a lot of character and a lot of low tiers in fighting games can be done dirty simply just because they didn't have the love, appreciation, or just time that other ones have. Little Mac doesn't have to be top tier or even broken, just not ass and misused they need to actually fix him and spend time to rework his tools. But it smash and they rarely do like that. He can still have his gimmick but it needs to fit the meta of the game.
its funny because giga bowser in melee has super armor, just to an absurd degree
About the Type Weaknesses/Resistance for Pokemon Trainer in Brawl, not only it crippled Ivysaur a lot due to the abundance of Fire Moves, but in contrast to Charizard and Squirtle, outside of a Mirror match and Kirby copying moves, there are literally 0 Grass moves that could cripple Squirtle in the same way, There's only one Water move outside Squirtle.... and it doesn't even deal damage, so the same is true for Charizard, as well that makes Ivysaur's supposed resistance almost non-existent.
So Type Weaknesses/Resistance literally fails to even work as an downside for Charizard and Squirtle and an Upside for Ivysaur due to Water and Grass moves being almost non-existent.
Another thing is that Type Weaknesses/Resistance is only isolated to the Fire, Grass and Water triangle, none of the other Weaknesses/Resistance for each type are included (they don't even have resistance to their own type)
For example, if all of the Weaknesses/Resistance were implemented, a match between the Pokemon Trainer and Pikachu, Ivysaur would resist all of Pikachu's electric moves while Charizard and Squirtle would be cripple by it since they're weak to them (Charizard has Flying as Second Type)
Mario also had Fludd ... which also deals zero damage, so still useless.
@@Appletank8
> There's only one Water move outside Squirtle.... and it doesn't even deal damage
You didn't read this part i think
@@MetalFreezer3000 Ah, I thought you meant Squirtle's water move doesn't do damage. I forgot about Waterfall.
SO, I was a Trainer main in brawl. I spent over 3000 hours learning that character, and let me tell you.
None of the flaws listed for Ivysaur was the real reason they were bad. Stamina sucked, but ivysaur could still slowly wrack up damage with safe tilts, and backair strings. And you could kill off of a good read. The fire weakness sucked, It made Ivy functionally lighter than he should have been, but landing a hit on him in the first place was a pain. Ivy's neutral game was very good actually.
The problem was THAT RECOVERY. One mistake and you'd explode.
Brawl has a LOVELY edgegrab mechanic where only one person could grab ledge at a time. If Ivysaur was off stage, and the opponent grabbed ledge. Ivy can't up B. He falls to his death.
Falco grabbed you at 0%? Time to get chaingrabbed to the edge of the stage, dair'ed, and you're dead 100% of the time.
ZSS landed one stun on you? Time to get comboed off stage and die.
Metaknight landed a single hit on you? Time to get comboed offstage and die. (or you get perma juggled by upairs lul)
Tried to edgeguard and missed? The enemy grabs ledge before you and you die.
Ivysaur had the worst recovery in smash bros history. You had to play SO careful with him because any mistake could be death. Even at 0%. He makes little mac's recovery look good.
Playing Brawl Ivysuar for so long makes Ultimate Ivysuar feel like a cheat code.
While I personally prefer ledge hogging to ultimates ledge trumping. It’s clear that ivysaur was not designed with the mechanic in mind for brawl. Even in melee the worst recovery’s at least give you a couple mixups or attempts to recover before you actually bite it. IMO I would have liked to see ivysaur’s up b retain Melees tether mechanic to allow you to tether to the stage, would have given ivysaur a chance off stage.
I think Project M's wiped my memory, despite playing Brawl for years prior
I'm sorry you had to experience those win conditions😫
There were other characters in Brawl like this. But in the case of ZSS she had flip jump, and for Olimar that Alien had 6 pikmin back in the day and tripping exists, so you were not reaching it in practice and didn't need to risk anything. Ivysaur's zoning is alright but unimpressive, so those grabs to death are going to happen often.
Seeing Bowser in Smash 4 and Ultimate get the buffs MagnuM, CHAOTIC, and I were saying he needed back in '06 and '07 was unreal, and I would have absolutely loved it if he'd retained most of his moveset. Don't get me wrong; I love Smash 4 and Ultimate Bowser, but I wish he could have gotten the buffs he did without completely changing up his moveset, posture, and model size. I'd have even been happy if he peaked at Melee Ganondorf tier levels if it meant I could have Melee and Brawl Bowser but actually decent.
Absolutely not. Bowser looked like stupid monster before and his colors were off, now he looks like Bowser’s actual character with more menacing face and animations
I do think he comes across a bit too upright and "human" in Smash 4 and Ultimate, but I'm glad he also doesn't come across as a fumbling dumb kaiju kind of creature anymore. I think if his idle stance was somewhere between Melee/Brawl and 4/Ultimate, it'd be perfect. Also, while his "skating" dash in Melee and Brawl is amusing, I am glad he runs properly now. I do miss his old down smash though, even if it was effectively his up special animation, and I wish he used his claws more.
Honestly even with the Smash 4 rework, Bowser needs a near complete overhaul. He doesn't act anything like Bowser does in the games, uses the same edited Jaguar roars he's used for decades, and he has minimal references to his appearances in his series, aside from down-b, breathing fire, and a few frames of his jab animation. Even using his shell more started in Smash, I appreciate the changes but he needs a rework. The only thing I would keep is his general grappler playstyle. Because I want my favorite character to be my favorite fighting game archetype
Their flaws screams for fan made buffs.
From the "is this "" for you?" series you've really stepped up the editing and writing all around, hope you continue to pop off as a creator!
"any character can have flaws"
BMK laughs in the background
I wish you brought up Ultimate Dedede because I think he has so many fundamental issues.
Bro f anyone hating on you being your self, Honest. I like the new style a lot, keep doing you man. I know this stuff isn't eazy to make.
And Banjo is an example of how to take a wacky game and make a borring character out of it
Rip melee bowser
Long time fan here- I personally prefer your usual format over the Chaler-esque presentation; It suits your video content more.
to be fair, its not the most original style in the world, the green screen thing was started by nakey jakey im pretty sure and other people like internet pitstop did it too. but i kinda like the vibe it gives to this style of video because it gives it more personality but thats just me
Piranha Plant is literally my favorite character and I've never lost a match with him, love that strange guy
I hate piranha plant
Love your content! Thanks honest!
I actually duel main melee Roy and Marth depending on match ups and im actually super fast with both of them. Sheik is my secondary (fire emblem and zelda were my childhood so these characters are really close to my heart)
brp makes such high quality so so soo0o fast!! Please dont burn yourself out! You deserve a watermelon!!
Piranha Plant became the new joke character for Ultimate with Pichu being immensely buffed
It might been a joke when he joined, but now everyone knows fighting hime is no joke
Pichu from what I recall hasn't been very good since early patches
Pichu's mechanic means no matter how much they buff him, he sucks.
@@g3nj1 he was genuinely balanced in vanilla Ultimate, until the Dev team overreacted to the early meta status quo
@g3nj1 Pichu was an insane character at Ultimate release, even after being significantly nerfed in 3.0.0, Pichu remains a high-tiered character
If you're going to create a sequel for this video, you have to mention the regional differences in SSB64 and the buffs/nerfs they indirectly gave to certain fighters. NTSC-J Donkey Kong and PAL (Australia) Link are particularly egregious examples, with Donkey Kong at one point (this may still be in effect) having no winning matchups against the others.
If Melee Roy had PM Roy's bair he'd be viable
Maybe it's subjective but I can't agree universal 3 frame jump squat was an outright good change in Ultimate
(but Bowser's is definitely too long in Melee)
(also understand it wasn't the focus point of the video)
This new approach is kinda cool, rly like this style cus it seems like im watching someones very dedicated presentation, very coooollll :D
Ganon being so fucking bad for 4 games in a row (Brawl-3DS-WiiU-Ultimate) is one of the reasons I stopped playing. I really want to play as him but the insane power creep, specially in Ultimate's FP2 just made me stop caring because I finally accepted he's bad on purpose. Other heavies got the fixes they needed, like you pointed out with Bowser, but Ganon keeps being dogwater on purpose. I've been playing Smash since 64, and competitive since the Melee days. Ultimate made it clear that I'm no longer part of the intended audience. I'm suppossed to be cheering for Sora or some other playstation rep, idk. But I just want Ganon to be good, man.
2 bad characters are plants and they have poison
It's because in the subspace emissary you only start with Squirtle and you have to get Charizard and ivysaur later😊
I like ur videos, the editing is clean and the presentation is nice. It reminds me of Asumsaus, but I figured you probably heard that many times. But it is the highest of compliments lol. Although, I feel like I don’t need to see you to get the message. It doesn’t add anything imo. Also blocks the screen from what I’m supposed to see.
3:00
"It literally makes you harder to approach"...
What?????????
Love this Honest, yes!
pm bowser goated set
edit: also as a melee gannon main nintendo is just protectin yall
Leave it to Honest Content to keep dropping great vids on my lunch break 🙌
Budget AsumSaus but in a good way
I love this new style lets go!
Melee Roy is my main. I find him supremely satisfying to play.
Who would be considered a good "Jack of all trades" in Smash Bros?
I’m surprised inkling isn’t here when her design is trash central.
Actually, Smash is kindaa unique in that its a lot more punishing on big bodies than traditional fighters. Let me explain.
In traditional fighters, big body characters can often times come with super armor, big moves, big health, and are even harder to combo and juggle cuz they jit the ground faster. Unlike smash where the weight enables for chaingrabs, in traditional fighters it often combos need to be cut short cuz traditional fighters are more about wobbling opponents in the air. Think of trad fighters like they have multiple falcons and they all like floaty characters. There are many great big body characters in other fighters due to the reasons i stated above. Look at MVC2's Sentinel, SF4's Sagat & Zangief, Bloody Roar Extreme's Stun, there's a big list of good big body characters. Smash is just very different in that regard.
Still, every character community tries to make the meta change...
no mention of SSBU Rosalina...smh
Rosa places extremely well in tournaments courtesy of Dabuz. Rosa’s flaws don’t hold her back to the degree of bad characters.
Roy doesn’t have the hilt mechanic in Melee?
he did, but it doesn't have a "tipper hitbox" like Marth does. Its legit weaker than marths. His strongest part of the sword is still the hilt, its just not a Marth Tipper in strength which kinda sucks.
@@hellosunshine2292 that sucks so much for Roy
I played with him so aggressively I never noticed. I took losses in stride and had a lot of fun when I knocked people out. I also probably never fought anyone who understood how to utilize Falco, Fox, Marth, or Falcon properly and _nobody_ I knew could get anything done as Sheik. And I'd usually win, trucking along with an aggressive Roy while sometimes aggressively running into a waiting Warlock Fist.
@@UmbraStarWolf Sakurai wanted to use Marth since the beginning, Nintendo wanted to put in Roy to promote Binding Blade which wasn't even released yet. It shows!!!!!
@@orangeslash1667No Sakurai wanted Marth and another lord. He originally considered Leif, but ultimately added Roy in order to promote the new game
This is the worst Plant take of all time, what the hell are you waffling on about?
Unrelated to the video, but an idea for future content I think would be great is redoing your “Meet the Smash Brother” series, as rollback will be coming out soon(ish) and many people are gonna look at the game for the first time. So it would get clicks and help ppl get into the game too
This video was good too! Like the content still, just weird seeing you in the videos now (not bad or anything, just different is all if that makes sense)
People think Piranha is low tier? He’s literally top 6 idk what people are talking about 😂
The green screen effect was pretty annoying.
Thank god Mac is bad
why do i always end up picking these characters?
Piranha Palnt is that bad he is my main and he is op
I know nobody cares but there's an editing error at 6:40 lol
YOU AHOULD TALKA BOUT SOME PM STUFF!!!
Hey, dont get me wrong, i think youre doing great with your videos, but i think taking an approach like AsumSaus where its just you talking would be better. It feels like im watching a professors presentation
Naw he's video is good how it is. I like the new approach with him in the videos
His approach his fine.
It only adds to the video.
Me personally I like Honest's way of doing things, each creator has their own way, imma still watch it regardless
Delusional take
You're essentially just saying that you cant focus on a video, which is a little sad tbh
There’s no real terrible character in ultimate. The only one that’s super bad imo is isabel since her grab will never work on anyone who is good
Wait im unaware of this, whats wrong with her grab? Is it just the fact its a laggy tether grab?
Ganondorf is terrible in Ultimate. Not nearly to the same degree as in let's say Brawl, but he likely loses to the entire roster
Melee Roy is not my boy
With all due respect, the green screen segments aren't doing it for me. I have a hard time focusing on your voice and what you're saying when all I see is you awkwardly repeating the same repetitive hand motions over and over. I think it may help for it not to be full body and for yourself to be intermittent as opposed to so oppressively present.
I’ve noticed that there’s a common misconception that if a character is bad, they must be flawed or been done dirty. A good example of this is melee Zelda. She was meant to be a strong character that you pull out after using sheik to rack up damage. That gimmick was flawed and Sheik did everything Zelda was meant to and more. Ultimate Little Mac is different. Yeah he’s bad, but he wasn’t built to be a good character, he has his gimmick of being really good on the ground and worthless in the air. That’s not poor game design, that’s how he was meant to be. He isn’t flawed, he’s just doing his own thing. I often hear people complain about characters like him and how they should be fixed and made better, but bad characters don’t need to be good. If it isn’t them, it’s a different character at the bottom.
Little Mac is conceptually an excellent, speedy boxer, an underdog (he's usually fighting literal giants who tower over him at easily twice his height), and a very _grounded_ person lacking in the explicit superpowers of other videogame protagonists. Smash did his concept perfectly, including not overcorrecting his lack of air game and range by making him _too_ good on the ground to the point he stops feeling like a fairly realistic punchy man.
Little Mac does give me a fun idea to do some power scaling and figure out how Mike Tyson would work as a Smash character.
He is still wierd though, like even if that was the plan that's not even how punch out works so what gives? He should be based around finding openings and dodging when he currently just tanks things with armour and spams smash attacks, he CAN play more carefuly for sure, but he isnt really made with that in mind, especially with things like ko punch charging from getting hit a lot quicker for some reason
I really don't get your point. Why would you want to make a character bad? Like little mac is not a joke character like Pichu, and even then, they fixed him to make him good? Getting "done dirty" can mean a lot of things to a lot of character and a lot of low tiers in fighting games can be done dirty simply just because they didn't have the love, appreciation, or just time that other ones have. Little Mac doesn't have to be top tier or even broken, just not ass and misused they need to actually fix him and spend time to rework his tools. But it smash and they rarely do like that. He can still have his gimmick but it needs to fit the meta of the game.
Please stop overlaying yourself on the video and moving all around while flailing your arms, it distracts from what the video is actually about