very interesting. I can see a case for seeking intense bodily pleasure through training at the gym ( with heavy metal acting as a drill sergeant) , and mental pleasures through learning the history of philosophy. But the point is apt, you can have either intensity, or duration, but not both. Agree with the claim that mental pains are much worse than physical pain as well. The life of the mind as a species of hedonism...Is this Goethe's Faust?
Related: m.medicalxpress.com/news/2015-06-happy-memories-suppress-depression-mice.html They find that the memory of a bodily pleasure is more effective at relieving symptoms of depression than experiencing the same pleasure. Maybe a point for Epicurus on the supremacy of mental pleasures even in the home court of physical pleasures.
Thoroughly enjoyed this one. Thanks. I like the mention of playing the same song over and over, because (for better or for worse) if I like a song, I tend *not* to get jaded to it, and I have the (AFAIK extremely rare) capacity to put a song on "repeat play" and listen to it 50+ times in repetition. And it doesn't even have to be "good" music. I suppose this is my equivalent of chanting the rosary or a mantra, as I generally don't "plateau" until around the the 5th or 6th repetition, then I get into the "zone" where the music sort of takes over. It becomes more than elevator music (certainly more pleasurable), but "less" than a symphony, which has a sequence and a teleology to it. But is this "music" as we understand it, or as Epicurus would conceptualize it? And it seems to be more than blotting out the outside world or his idea of "static pleasure" since in some sense, I am "interacting" with the external music. The closest I can come to describing it is that the "inner" is metaphorically dancing with the "outer". What Epicurus describes as static pleasure seems to me to correspond with 'dolce far niente' or the Arabic term "qayf": pleasantly vegging out or blissing out, whereas my musical practices seem more "active" and engaged than simply seeking a sort of absence. And what is jadedness per se? Maybe one has simply not yet discovered one's "true" pleasure? Clearly, I need to study this more ... :-)
+Anekantavad So, two very good questions -- that I need to think about more myself "But is this "music" as we understand it, or as Epicurus would conceptualize it?" "And what is jadedness per se?" These strike me as good fodder for reflection and eventual posting in my Heavy Metal Philosopher blog, which, unfortunately, I don't make enough time for at present. . .
I love your presentation, very clear and interesting topic. My only feedback is maybe used colors or a better blackboard. My eyes are not very strong and I cannot read a lot of what did you write. Thank you so much!
What about torture, domestic abuse, or being homeless and ill? There's no guarantee that these pains will stop. They also greatly affect the mind and its workings
My apologies, I am going to give an hypothetical situation as I lack the words to explain myself. An Epicurean is walking down a local street and is suddenly met with a strong emotion, could be anxiety, could be lust or any other strong emotion. The Epicurean is unsure of what is the stimuli which caused the emotion. How would an Epicurean "handle" or "deal" or "manage" the emotion? With Stoicism for example they would have it by asking "are you up to me or not" or "are you related to Virtue or not".
The Epicurean - much like the Stoic, Platonist, or Aristotelian - would likely look for what the roots of that particular emotion might be, which could stem from multiple sources - unexamined thought processes, habits, even things going haywire in the body. Of course, some emotions are the right response at the time - even for the Stoics. When it comes to anger, for example (which the Stoics think is always bad, the Epicureans took the position that some anger was natural, and some stemmed from empty opinion)
where body parts out having sex than have no sex and health problems .. ration everything or what they say moderation of everything. good memories bring happy thoughts and joy .. pleasure .. with out the work , a feeling . a good feel . forget the torture . haha.
Thank you for taking your time to spread this information in an understandable way. I thoroughly enjoy listening to your series.
Salena Bateman You're welcome!
Here's another of the Epicurus Core Concept videos -- this one focusing on a feature that set Epicurus' school apart from many other Hedonists
very interesting. I can see a case for seeking intense bodily pleasure through training at the gym ( with heavy metal acting as a drill sergeant) , and mental pleasures through learning the history of philosophy. But the point is apt, you can have either intensity, or duration, but not both. Agree with the claim that mental pains are much worse than physical pain as well. The life of the mind as a species of hedonism...Is this Goethe's Faust?
Related: m.medicalxpress.com/news/2015-06-happy-memories-suppress-depression-mice.html
They find that the memory of a bodily pleasure is more effective at relieving symptoms of depression than experiencing the same pleasure. Maybe a point for Epicurus on the supremacy of mental pleasures even in the home court of physical pleasures.
I love these ideas. It is fun to think about and also pretty inspiring.
Good
Thoroughly enjoyed this one. Thanks.
I like the mention of playing the same song over and over, because (for better or for worse) if I like a song, I tend *not* to get jaded to it, and I have the (AFAIK extremely rare) capacity to put a song on "repeat play" and listen to it 50+ times in repetition. And it doesn't even have to be "good" music. I suppose this is my equivalent of chanting the rosary or a mantra, as I generally don't "plateau" until around the the 5th or 6th repetition, then I get into the "zone" where the music sort of takes over. It becomes more than elevator music (certainly more pleasurable), but "less" than a symphony, which has a sequence and a teleology to it.
But is this "music" as we understand it, or as Epicurus would conceptualize it? And it seems to be more than blotting out the outside world or his idea of "static pleasure" since in some sense, I am "interacting" with the external music. The closest I can come to describing it is that the "inner" is metaphorically dancing with the "outer". What Epicurus describes as static pleasure seems to me to correspond with 'dolce far niente' or the Arabic term "qayf": pleasantly vegging out or blissing out, whereas my musical practices seem more "active" and engaged than simply seeking a sort of absence.
And what is jadedness per se? Maybe one has simply not yet discovered one's "true" pleasure?
Clearly, I need to study this more ...
:-)
+Anekantavad So, two very good questions -- that I need to think about more myself
"But is this "music" as we understand it, or as Epicurus would conceptualize it?"
"And what is jadedness per se?"
These strike me as good fodder for reflection and eventual posting in my Heavy Metal Philosopher blog, which, unfortunately, I don't make enough time for at present. . .
I would love a heavy metal philosopher blog!
So basically the hedonic treadmill is Epicurean argument originally.
Once more i really like the series
Thanks
+stefan klisarov I suppose it is. Haven't thought much about that
I love your presentation, very clear and interesting topic. My only feedback is maybe used colors or a better blackboard. My eyes are not very strong and I cannot read a lot of what did you write.
Thank you so much!
The blackboard is what it is
What about torture, domestic abuse, or being homeless and ill? There's no guarantee that these pains will stop. They also greatly affect the mind and its workings
Sure. Those involve mental pains.
Both have no guarantee of ending
lesjconj Yep. Epicurus thinks mental pains can go on a long time, indeed over a lifetime
Great video, how do "automatic thoughts and emotions" fit into the Canon of Truth?
It's unclear what you're asking here. Are you looking for the mechanism by which one might have emotions and thoughts arising?
My apologies, I am going to give an hypothetical situation as I lack the words to explain myself.
An Epicurean is walking down a local street and is suddenly met with a strong emotion, could be anxiety, could be lust or any other strong emotion. The Epicurean is unsure of what is the stimuli which caused the emotion. How would an Epicurean "handle" or "deal" or "manage" the emotion?
With Stoicism for example they would have it by asking "are you up to me or not" or "are you related to Virtue or not".
The Epicurean - much like the Stoic, Platonist, or Aristotelian - would likely look for what the roots of that particular emotion might be, which could stem from multiple sources - unexamined thought processes, habits, even things going haywire in the body.
Of course, some emotions are the right response at the time - even for the Stoics. When it comes to anger, for example (which the Stoics think is always bad, the Epicureans took the position that some anger was natural, and some stemmed from empty opinion)
where body parts out having sex than have no sex and health problems .. ration everything or what they say moderation of everything. good memories bring happy thoughts and joy .. pleasure .. with out the work , a feeling . a good feel . forget the torture . haha.