Why Cant Your Ski Boots?
Вставка
- Опубліковано 21 жов 2020
- If you've heard about ski boot canting but don't know what it's all about, this video is for you. If your skiing could use some help, this video is for you. If you turn better on one side, this video is for you. If you're a new ski shop employee and want the full story about why canting is a critical service that you need to be providing to your customers, this video is for you. If you're one of the few ski boot manufacturers left who have not redesigned your ski boots to support Cantology ski boot cants, this video is for you. ;-)
Enjoy!
The video is long. But in making the video, I would have liked to have emphasized the following points:
A) I make cants. So I tend to be a bit cant-centric. Although I mentioned it toward the end of the video, your boot fit, ESPECIALLY the cuff adjustment must be optimal before the need for cants is evaluated. (There are several videos on UA-cam that explain cuff adjustment.) Adding cants to your ski boots is the adjustment of last resort. It’s a perfectly valid and important thing to do IF ALL OTHER BOOT ADJUSTMENTS are optimal but don’t result in an optimal stance.
B) Ski shops and pro boot fitters use a variety of methods and tools to evaluate a skier’s stance. Some are more accurate than others, that is, they produce better results. IMO the best evaluation methods involve testing the skier’s balance with various cant angle candidates and an allowance for the fact that snow is a soft surface. In other words, the ski boot needs to be able to seek and achieve lateral angle equilibrium during stance evaluation. This can be achieved by testing cants on the snow, or by ‘floating’ the skier on a teeter-totter-like device. The latter is not as accurate as the former, but the former is more difficult to do in practice.
C) Flat is neutral and a good starting place for getting your stance dialed in. But flat may not be ideal for some skiers, who may benefit by, or prefer, being canted slightly inside, giving them more aggression on one or both inside edges. Others may be optimal when slightly outside. For example, if it requires 1 degree of cant on the left boot and 2 degrees on the right to be flat, that skier may actually prefer a slight inside stance for optimal performance on the right side. That can be achieved by adding one half degree. So the left would then be 1.0 and the right 2.5. Doing such fine-tuning is difficult without on-snow testing.
D) I didn’t talk at all about leg length differences (even though Cantology also makes leg length shims!) nor about skiers balance and the relationship between stance, cants, and balance. The video is plenty long and a good treatment of these topics goes beyond a “101” introduction.
As you read the comments below, you may get a sense that there is some inconsistency surrounding the topic of canting. Let there be no mistake: all sides agree that all skiers should have their stance evaluated. And adding cant wedges under the ski boots or under the bindings as a corrective measure helps many skiers ski better, often much, much better. The inconsistency involves the explanation of “why” cants work. And I may be contributing to the problem. And, if that be the case, I will correct my thinking and put out new videos to show the truth.
Stance evaluation and adjustments, including the use of cants have been around for more than 50 years. And in all that time, the skiing public's understanding that their stance may be contributing to their inability to ski as well as they would like has remained poor. Don’t get too sidetracked by these discussions. If you sense that your skiing is suffering from symptoms of stance-related problems, go see a reputable boot fitter. You’ll be glad you did.
This is excellent information for a ski instructor. Very thorough and well explained. Thank you.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Spot on ! Just had my Fischer ski boots -upgraded inserts, canted and molded to me. I've been skiing my whole life and have never felt such a world of difference! Thank you for your expertise!
Thanks for sharing!
Great video and it's so good to see there is help out there finally. Harb and Geoffda make good points (way above my head) and as I said to Art Rothafel below it's cuffed and canted boots before I go skiing again. I never thought about why my inside edges edged when just standing in the ski's. Videos like this will bring so much pleasure to recreational skiers who just need a bit of help with their yearly ski trip. THANKS!!!!
The problem with most ski instructors in the world is that they create teaching methods that Are over people's heads. How do you think they can sell so many books and cd's? You can't do it by keeping skiing Simple! "If you can't tell a 5 year old what you are doing, you don't know what you are doing." Robert Ballard.
Great job! well presented and explained.
We (Harb Ski Systems) support your company, but let's help everyone and each other, to make a positive difference.
Thanks, I'm working on it.
Great Video. This is exactly my problem. Having problem making GS turns due to my A-frame problem. Thank you very much.
Glad it helped
Great video. Appreciate the time taken to explain in such detail but very simply.
Hi Tom, Glad you enjoyed it! I've been planning to contact you about a new video series I'm putting together that goes to the next step on this topic. I'll get the first episode up so you can see what I'm doing and then I'll email you.
@@CantologyLLC sounds great. Please do
+1 for Harald Harb and Geoff's comments. I'm not a technical person which is the exact reason why most skiers should be fitted and aligned by a professional. As an end-user, what I can say is this: After years of sore knees and lower back spasms -- all that pain went away after being fitted and aligned by Harald and his team. And, because I attended a camp, they were able to actually see the "on snow" results of their work. I'm quite happy believing it's magic -- or perhaps voodoo! Either way, at age 66 am still able to ski aggressively and with confidence.
I'm very late 50's and have skied all Europe and Canada (I'm from the UK). I totally agree with you even though I'm no expert. If you looked at my shoes you would see they are evenly worn and only slightly to the outsides on the heels. When I stand in ski's both inside edges are already edging yet I don't look very knock kneed and neither do I walk knock kneed. Been a golfer for 43 years??. I find it very difficult to ski on motorway pistes where you just stand tall because either ski can grab on the inside edge and flip over the other one. As soon as I go faster and create turns it alleviates the problems. I think this explains why I find it easier to ski fast rather than slow. In fairness to Cantology though, spreading the word that there is help out there is an admirable thing and much appreciated. My next trip skiing will be with correctly canted and cuffed boots lol. Right where do I go in the UK to sort this Mmmmmm.
Thanks
I used to race 25 years ago and had a serious natural A frame when in the athletic position. Furthermore the plumb-line from my mid patella fell to the inside of my foot rather than between my first and second toes. That meant non-flat ski with the weight on the inside edges. I
had a good podiatrist make foot beds,then I went up to a company in Canada wherein they placed cants beneath my ski and the bindings.
Of the ski shops here in the States that I contacted none were willing to place wedges between the binding and ski due to liability. I improved my slalom and GS times significantly.
Glad you got sorted out
very nice detail. Thanks to my mom -- the orthopedic doc when young fixed many issues.
Glad it was helpful!
Thank you Will for the excellent and articulate video. I’ve been a skier for decades, and have adapted my “technique” to have fun and ski at a relatively high level. However, I know, and have known for years, that both my stance, and more so my Leg Length Discrepancy (LLD) (right leg, approximately 1-1.5cm shorter), are keeping me from achieving a higher level of control and performance (and greater fun!). In addition to canting, have you done any fitment adjustments greater than 5-10mm for LLD? (More than what can be adjusted for in inner boot custom sole beds, etc). If not, do you have any recommendations? Thank you for your thoughts.
I was so confused by the title, I was like… why can’t my ski boots what? 🤣
Don't be confused. It's OK
Thanks for posting a very well illustrated and explained video. I just want to comment though, that the wedge insertion (fat side towards the inside) example you showed filled in the space below the ski boot, makes the ski flat on the snow, but leaves the skier with their lower leg and knee alignment the same...bow legged on the right leg...with the center of their right knee to the othside of the boot toe centerline....I had this type of canting done for me and it did not work....I needed to have the wedge inserted fat side towards the outside which moved my knee inwards so that it lined up just to the inside of the boot toe centerline....this version of boot sole canting worked for me, whether using wedges or boot sole grinding.
Thanks Carl. I've seen what you are describing. The variability in human anatomy and the dynamics of skiing are each extremely complex topics on their own, and compounded when considered together. We sell cants to ski boot fitters and leave it to them to determine how best to apply them on a case by case basis. The video attempts to introduce the general public to the fact that there is such a thing as a stance problem and explains the topic in the simplest and most visual way we could think of. I agree that it just scratches the surface. I just hope that folks go see a pro boot fitter if they have the slightest suspicion that they have a stance problem.
Great video. Be sure and check your leg angle for both legs as they may be different. Mine are. A simple way is a string with a weight at the end attached to the middle of the knee. I find this spot by locating the large flat tendon right below the knee cap (about 3/4 to and 1 inch wide) and put a mark right in the middle. Attach the string at the mark with tape (or a strap if you have hairy legs). The string with the weight should dangle just above the ground or your foot. Lift the opposite leg and balance on the leg with the sting and note the position of the weight. I find it's easiest to balance by locking the knee or keeping the leg straight as possible. To avoid swaying and thus causing the weight to move around a lot, lightly touch the wall or chair, but do not support yourself. Do the same process with the other leg. I found my left leg angled outward significantly more than my right around 1.5 inches. Often skies shave a good side and bad side when making turns (as mentioned) My bad side has always been to the right. Different leg strength likely accounts for some of it, but no doubt difference leg angle does too. Canting strips are on order. Will report back with results.
Thanks for your comments. You should check out our Quest for Perfect Stance series of videos for more on alignment techniques by really good boot fitters.
@@CantologyLLC I found your video showing the plum bob technique after posting my comment. It is great! Wouldn't have posted what I did had I known such a technique was already a thing and your video was out there.
Explainion is excellent
This video is incredible.
I wish I would have watched this video before taking on Killington. I’ve always rented equipment because I might ski one week a year or maybe one week every three years. Didn’t make sense for me to buy my own equipment. Well I finally wished I had bought my own equipment and gotten my stance evaluated. I am slightly bowlegged and didn’t realize how much that was effecting my skiing. From the moment I got off the lift I felt something wasn’t right. My edges were digging too much on turns and my skis felt too long (only 165) and in my turns I couldn’t stop my skis from crossing without a lot of effort. I didn’t even get back down to base before I wiped out on a black slope nearly tore my right RC and slid 100yards. Wasted $97 on rentals, $115 on a one day lift ticket, and $600 for x rays. The guy fitting my boots said I needed to be tight in my boots and gave a pair I thought were too small. Previous day at Stratton I had looser fitting boots and had no problems aka no fall all day. I think the tight boots, my bow legs were a recipe for disaster. Thank you for this video!
You're welcome. Thanks for commenting
great video, thanks for sharing
Thanks for watching!
My simplest understanding of this is to give one the needed range of movements needed to ski. I can make my skis run flat BUT my knees are way inside of my boots. My knee either hits my inside leg or will go behind the inside leg in order to edge without cants.
Or you can ski with a wider stance, or narrower stance to compensate, depending on which way you're messed up. But fixing your problem by canting eliminates your handicap.
What are the ankle based lateral angle adjustments on some ski boots? My Scarpa Freedom's have this type of adjustment and I thought that was a type of canting adjustment.
The eccentric screw adjustments on the outside of the ski boot at the ankle allow the boot cuff to be adjusted to match the angle at which your leg joins your foot/ankle. In the past, a lot of boot manufacturers who offered this feature sold it as 'cant adjustment'. They have generally come around to calling it 'cuff adjustment', which is not the same as canting. It's definitely very important, and a great feature to have, and it needs to be set correctly BEFORE any actual canting (boot sole angle) adjustments are made between the boot sole and the top surface of the ski. Thanks for the question!
I can see how canting can help with natural stance variations. But what about someone like me who has limited dorsiflexion on my left ankle due to an injury and subsequent surgery. Along with difficulty leaning my left knee inward enough to get a good inside edge on my downhill ski on my left side. I am bowlegged. Can canting plus other boot fitting adjustments help that?
Check out the rest of the videos on our channel, especially my interviews with Jeff Ernst and Brent Amsbury in our 'Quest for Perfect Stance' series. That should help you understand much more about what good boot fitters can do to help you.
This demonstration assumes many inconsistencies and lacks proper and accurate structured protocols for optimal results. In its defense, it does demonstrate that most skiers are misaligned and not enjoying optimal skiing results. The measuring device used here or tipping device demonstrated for sole canting measurements rarely provides the adjustments that are efficient on snow. When a person is standing in boots with their body weight on the boot soles, with boots on the teeter-totter device you mostly achieve false readings. We call this the "fill in space" canting result. This only serves to make the canting issues worst. To properly create accuracy of alignment the cuffs should be adjusted first, with proper footbeds in boots. The cuff alignment is just as important or more so than under the boot canting. They work together. Without the cuffs aligned first, the under boot canting rarely end with good results. The under boot canting should be done on a flat hard surface with a natural stance and foot width. Boot fitting is not the same as boot setup, canting, or cuff alignment. These terms are important to understand and differentiated.
Thanks for your comments Harald. I'm glad you found some value in my effort to provide some simple introduction to the topic of canting. I totally agree on doing cuff adjustment before worrying about canting under the boot. I end the video stating my opinion that all boot-related issues including foot beds and cuffs should be taken care of before evaluating for boot cants. As for "fill the space", in my 50 years of passion for cants, I've learned that there are indeed two schools of thought: "fill the gap" and "move the knee". Unfortunately, these differences in opinion are more like religions. And, given the infinite variability in human anatomy, I'm gonna say that both approaches can yield results and happy skiers and leave it at that. I appreciate your business and the next time I'm down your way I'll stop in and maybe see if your evaluation of my setup might enlighten this old gap filler.
@@CantologyLLC Thank you for the response. In our research and ongoing development that has over 20,000 skiers in our records and are documented. You are welcome to observe the results. There is no other research facility that has taken on boot science as Harb Ski Systems. No University or ski facility, or ski company in the world has this kind of evidence with actual skiers on the snow. I can assure you there is no controversy. We have tested it with racers of world-class caliber in timed runs and also evaluating recreational skiers and making the proper changes for over 20 years with our clients. Only science and protocol can prove the methods that work every time. I have presented our research in abstracts to the International Body of Skiing; at the two "Congress of Skiing and Science" in Austria and in Aspen. Our methods and protocol are accepted without question, Our research, methods, and results have been peer researched and supported. I look forward to your visit and further discussion. We are a company that is designed to further the success of skiing and to help correct the misunderstandings of the past. Best wishes, Harald
@@skiwhh Harold Harb can take something as simple as skiing and turn it into rocket Science like no other human. I guess that's how you keep people feeling insecure and buying your books and videos.
But won't the cuff alignment change when cants are added?
@@donaldfiesta8666 The lower lateral shin alignment is crucial to making your skiing work well and easier. once the proper position of the cuff is set to the leg it doesn't change it's in the correct place for lateral leverage. Fine-tuning is then done under the boot. This methodology is based on thousands of evaluations and tests both indoors and on the snow with every level of skier from the world cup to the best demonstrators.
Ok but what to do for people who use ski touring boots with no possibility to cant soles, bindings, or cuffs? If I am very bow legged (always feel that it’s hard to get sufficient edge angle on downhill ski) can I adjust alignment in boot by adapting the liner or insoles?
The only real solution for touring equipment is to cant under the bindings.
Great explanation - I always wondered why I like skiing with my knees together and my boots rubbing together and now I know - how much does this cost and do uyou guys have aplace near Whistler - so I can get it all checked out next time I go. Regards John (London) ?
Hi John, I've just replied to Art Rothafel below. I absolutely love skiing and there's definitely something in this cuffing and canting. My daughter is a fantastic skier and she always looks like her skis are fixed to an invisible disc on the snow. Her ski's sit so flat that she can spin in circles . SO ANNOYING!!! LOL
John, next time you get to Whistler here's a list of shops to check out. They all install our cants: Fanatyk Co., Alpine Pro Ski and Boot Services, SureFoot, Ski Connexions/Barry Allison, and Control Room Bootfitting. Good luck and stay safe!
-Will
Have you questioned your fundamental assumptions? First - why should a flat stance be desirable? In a carved two ski turn, the inside ski must trace a tighter arc on the snow. Therefore it must be at a higher edge angle than the outside ski. Second - why should a hip width stance be desirable? If we maintain feet separation at, say, one unit of width during turn transition (when the lower legs are perpendicular to the snow) basic geometry dictates that the stance must narrow as inclination increases - by the cosine of the inclination angle. At 45 degrees, stance must narrow to 0.7 and at 60 degrees to 0.5. Either that or the ski tracks must diverge. Hence the top of the turn must be entered 'toe in', ie in a wedge position, anticipating that the inside ski will be at a higher edge angle than the outside ski. The 'toe in' stance makes it much easier to 'get over the little toe edge' of the inside ski. Third, why assume that your concept of natural stance, and inside stance vs outside stance has any relevance to dynamic turns? We are constantly moving our feet and ankles to shift our balance point from edge to edge, in a manner described in the following Corso di Ski video (check out the many other videos, in the feet series but also covering every aspect of ski technique, imagination and intent). Perhaps a 'neutral stance', as you advocate, is a very good starting point, but I do not agree with your implied assumptions and logic based on these assumptions.
Watch "Corso di sci Check Point 07/2017 Sterzo e controsterzo" on UA-cam
ua-cam.com/video/xBNmxRKm8Xg/v-deo.html
We have clear in mind the idea to avoid that the tails slide away at the beginning of the turn. So the heels must have a predominant role while the foot leans. This movement leads to the foot to countersyeer against the turn. So, not a steering action of the two feet in the direction of the turn's exit, but an action willing to oppose to this excess of steering. We need to have clear in our mind that, if we want to carve, our skis will turn as a consequence of the inclination, of the strain and of the load. Our skis do not need the feet to swerve.
Feet countersteering in one direction and in the other direction. We can use a mat thousands of times in our home until we learn to have the best nimbleness, and to properly feel the switch between one countersteer and the following one, feeling that our feet change inclination and that our heels hold the tails within the turn, preventing any side slip. Every time I close the movement of a turn, I should pretend my heels and the tails pulling inside the next turn, while the foot leans.
Thanks for your comments. Do please note that this was an introductory '101' explanation of, what is, a fairly complex topic. I'm exploring the details in our Quest for Perfect Stance series.
I wouldn't say that there is controversy. That would imply that one could reasonably claim that different approaches to canting lead to the same or similar outcomes. Objectively, that can easily be proven false once there is agreement on what the desired outcome with respect to ski behavior should be. If the goal is to help a skier ride a flat ski or traverse all day, then your approach could be reasonable. However, if the goal is to help skiers provide the best possible inputs to make the skis turn, then your approach is provably sub-optimal. The idea of "filling in the space" was popularized by Warren Witherell, but unfortunately he had it backwards. There has been research in the area of alignment. Harald Harb and Diana Rogers at Harb Ski Systems have been at the forefront of it. Both of them have a graduate-level understanding of biomechanics and kinesiology and they were guided by Dr. Robert Hintermeister, PhD. a scientist who has published in the field of skiing science. Harald's work with respect to ski technique was presented at the International Congress on Science and Skiing. Harb Ski Systems has aligned tens of thousands of skiers most of whom they have skied with throughout the process and all of whom they have kept meticulous records on. If you think that your understanding is correct--and I would suggest that it is actually backwards--I would encourage you to perform a double blind study comparing your method to the approach of canting to enable neutral knee tracking. In setting up a such a study, it would be important to have an understanding of the other factors which affect alignment, such as tibial varum, tibial torsion, forefoot varus, etc. in order to control for those variables to ensure that you were getting an accurate comparison that isolated the effects of canting approaches. Meanwhile, I'd strongly encourage you to consider your basis for believing that your approach is correct. Confirmation bias is the enemy of all scientists. Like Richard Feynman used to say, (and I'm paraphrasing), "the first thing you need to do is not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool."
Thanks, I appreciate your comments. I've edited my 'controversy' comment and am actively educating myself. And I will work to put out video content that is consistent with the current state-of-the-art. Stay tuned.
"the first thing you need to do is not fool yourself" Following what so called Professionals tell you will get you fooled every time because they usually are teaching you for Their benefit not yours. The longer it takes you to learn, the more money they make. That isn't their plan, they really don't know how to teach you so it just works out that way for them.
Skiing is easy and simple and nobody focusses on that. All it requires is practice balancing on one foot after the other, knowing how to stand and when and how to change your weight. The skis take it from there. The skis Know how to make turns, you just have to do your part.
Is driving a 4000Ib car difficult? The major difference is that you do that sitting down. Balancing is not required. You rotate the steering wheel, making minor adjustments as needed, give it a little gas or brake and the car does the rest.
The skis are your car and the tips and side cut are like the steering mechanism. The way you position your upper body while balancing on one ski after the other allows the skis to make turns. It IS that simple. K.I.S.S.
@@JB91710 Skiing should be "easy and simple," but not everyone (and I suspect very few) have the feet and natural alignment that will allow them to make the movements that would allow the skis to perform as designed. It sounds like you must be one of the lucky ones and/or you are athletic enough to overcome any (minor) alignment deficiencies, because if you weren't, you would either understand how important proper boot and foot bed setup is or you wouldn't be able to ski. As a quick example, a great many people cannot balance entirely on one ski and have it travel in a straight line (which it should). Unfortunately, very few professionals in the ski industry understand how to ski properly, the biomechanics that support such skiing, and how to translate that knowledge to correct the natural physical limitations that so many skiers have. As it stands, a great many skiers are forced to compensate for alignment deficiencies, and most of those skiers will never get to the level that they desire. They could get the absolute best instruction in the world and it wouldn't matter because they aren't physically capable (in their existing setup) of making the movements required for high level skiing. Skiing will never be easy or simple for those people unless they get their equipment setup properly.
@@geoffda "Unfortunately, very few professionals in the ski industry understand how to ski properly, the biomechanics that support such skiing, and how to translate that knowledge to correct the natural physical limitations that so many skiers have." You hit the nail right on the head. Most people watch skiers and then create teaching methods as Two Dimensional Reactors. They see feet turning so they say turn your feet. The see knees leaning sideways so they say "Tip" your knees. A Three Dimensional Thinker looks at skiing to find out what causes those things to look like that. One creates mimicking the other instills knowledge. Most instructors say, "You think about skiing from your feet up." That is 100% wrong. Not 99%, 100% wrong. The last thing you think about is what is going on in your boots. You only monitor that during the turn to see if you are on your arch or the flat on your foot. THAT, is where you make the fine adjustments in your knee position to get onto your inside edge.
@@geoffda "As it stands, a great many skiers are forced to compensate for alignment deficiencies" Compensating is exactly what skiing is all about. You have to make constant adjustments to your body position because your body is in a constant state of motion and the the snow surface is constantly changing. Once you are comfortable with balancing, you can make those adjustments.
"most of those skiers will never get to the level that they desire." Not if they have the right instructor. If they need more practice balancing, then the instructor has to focus on that. If the instructor can make them understand the adjustments that have to be made, they can compensate.
"They could get the absolute best instruction in the world and it wouldn't matter because they aren't physically capable (in their existing setup) of making the movements required for high level skiing." That depends on what you consider the best instruction to be. I have taught the most uncoordinated people how to ski. It took telling them the same thing in many different ways and using their strength to their advantage but I got them to turn and understand what they needed to do.
"Skiing will never be easy or simple for those people unless they get their equipment setup properly." Wrong! It's called adapting from your deficiencies. Are you sayin a one legged person can't ski? A blind person? I've taught them too. Do you know how? You have to think of yourself being blind and then give them what You would need. A little misalignment between your foot and lower leg is nothing. It is so minor a handicap that it shouldn't even be considered. If you are bow legged, what do you do to get on that inside edge? You'll need more hip movement and lateral knee adjustment, into the turns.
Really simple stuff.
Great video, where were you 25 years ago!? Thank you.
You're welcome!
We took my daughter through a similar process. She ski races and has done so from a young age. She was having too much pressure on inside of foot so a cant was required to put the wedge on the outside of the foot. About 3 degrees. Whilst this gave her a flat base and an initial benefit could be seen, unfortunately this then caused her to start skiing in an A-frame position. Also it made it more difficult to roll her outside knee into a turn due to the cant. Due to these problems we had to abandon the cants as it was then holding her back. We were advised to look into ways to correct through specific exercises instead but it became difficult to find any specific information on this. Does anyone have any advice on this?
Sounds like the recommendation for 3 degree 'correction' was off the mark. Canting is "the adjustment of last resort", after all fit, foot bed, and cuff adjustments are optimal, including leg length correction. So I suggest you get opinions from more boot fitters. Great boot fitters can correct just about everything. We will be posting a series of interviews with top boot fitters and watching 'over the shoulder' as they work their magic later this winter.
Who do you think is best to go see close to New York City,thank you for your answer in advance
I can't recommend anyone in New York. Our website has a "dealer list" page that shows all the shops in the world that have bought products from us in the reasonable past, sorted by country and state. Take a look for ones nearest to you or your vacation plans.
Is there a way to compensate for cant issues on tech bindings?
Check out our video on canting with tech bindings. In short, you must place the cant under the binding
After having watched the video and read every comment and reply, I have learned a TON. Kudos to Cantology and Harb Ski Systems. When smart, analytical people attack a problem, good things happen. Can anyone provide information about boot fitting and canting for skate ski boots? In particular, a ski shop that can get it right? In my research, I see that for the 2008 season, Fischer made a serious attempt at putting canting capability directly into the boot, but it seems that they long ago abandoned the initiative.
Thanks for your comment Stephen. The key to the Cantology approach is that the cant wedge is sandwiched between the shell and the removable tread pad of the ski boot. Unless the skate boot has such treads, that way won't work. And, to keep them light, there is very little sole thickness to work with on skate boots, but I would think that planing (as is done for solid sole alpine boots) would be worth looking into. And, as with alpine boots, if you know you need significant cant, then buy boots that can be readily canted. Trying to make it work with a boot that is not conducive just wastes your time and money. You might want to talk to expert boot fitters in ski towns where both alpine and Nordic skiing take place. If they sense a canting service business that they're overlooking, they should be very interested in working with you.
But wouldn't skiing correct you stance since you have to get your feet into t he right position (even when it's with more effort)?
You can still ski, but probably never reach your potential. It's a handicap if you need cants but don't address the problem. It's certainly a situation where you can blame your equipment!
If I am flat footed, does that make me less likely to need canting?
No. Everyone should get your stance checked.
I don’t know, why cant they?
Great video. Although there’s one thing I don’t understand. Why are people with their weight on their outside of their feet more prone to A-frame? I do get that they have to compensate for their knee pointing outwards, e.g. when they want to engage the uphill edge of the downhill ski, but they should only have to compensate to the point that their knees are over their toes, because at that point they’re their flat and have the same angles as a flat person.
I do get that engaging the knee to get to that position can be a bad thing, but shouldn’t it be a good thing to get in to the knees over toes position when doing a turn, since that’s where you are the strongest? If you’re canted you can get away with having the knee slightly to the outside and still achieving the same edge angle, although in a weaker position.
Hope this doesn’t sound too critical, just curious and want to understand.
I ski with 2.5 and 3.0 degrees of cant, both sides are fat side in. So you're talking about my own personal condition. If un-canted, I put too much weight on my little toe edges. And, when skiing, I must move both knees inward to neutralize/flatten the skis. Then, I must bring my downhill/outside knee inward further still to apply the big toe edge. So I appear very "A frame" without cants. With my cants, my knees are apart. I don't understand your strength vs weakness judgement. My body is strongest and most able to deal with whatever the terrain throws at me when my joints are all in their own natural alignment. When I'm in my natural, neutral alignment, I want my skis to be flat. Without cants, they aren't.
Canting moves the knee, and moves the ski (meaning adjusts the sole angle). Because snow deforms under pressure, and there is essentially a fulcrum that runs down the center of the long axis of the ski, all the big knee movement you see in the ski shop when standing in canted boots on a hard surface does not occur on the hill. Because boot fitters use center of knee mass or center of patella tendon as a reference point when evaluating stance, there is a lot of focus on lateral knee position. But, up on the hill, it's a compromise. The center of knee is moved a bit and the sole angle of the boot/ski is changed a bit. And the later is the goal of all of this.
This was just a "101" or introductory video, and as such, I tried hard to simplify the topic. Correcting for all the different things that can be, say, less than optimal, in the human anatomy is a broad and complex topic. The goal of this channel is to explore this topic in ever-greater detail. So stay tuned. We have enough raw video "in the can" for another 10-12 videos. So stay tuned for more!
@@CantologyLLC interesting. Thank you for the answer. Look forward to more videos on the topic.
How does pronation play into this?
Depends on the context. If your foot is naturally pronated, your boot fit should accommodate this. Your pronation is just one more aspect of your physiology that, all together, contribute to how you stand. Deliberate pronation is recognized as a legitimate and desirable control motion to fine-tune your edge angles while skiing. Ernie speaks to this during my interview with him in Quest for Perfect Stance Episode 7.
@@CantologyLLC My foot pronates to the point that the medial malleolus is slightly touching the inside of the boot shell (boot liner out with foot bed under the foot).
Where are you based out of?
We are north of Seattle. But we're a virtual company; we don't really have a physical presence.
Where is your location?
Seattle area
100th comment
Why can't my ski boots what?
Adjusting the boot cuff angle etc. I believe is called “canting” confusing title..
@@brmakl1 yea ik I was just being annoying lol
Glad to see you entertain yourself
Obviously you are very knowledgeable about boots and canting. I would ask that you stop referring to the uphill and downhill skis and, instead refer to them as the inside and outside ski. Since this video is 3 years old you probably won't see this comment. And, yes, I am a ski instructor.
Don’t know where you instruct or learnt to ski but the only names for skis are:
“Berg” = upper ski
“Tal” = lower
your very foolish remark only cuts the cheese when turning, somethingYanks do not understand!
Sorry, but there is just too much negativity in this video. It's 16 minutes of "can't, can't, can't" - I don't need someone to tell me why my ski boots can't, because my boots *can* - they're awesome.
Everybody here is overthinking skiing like I haven't seen in the past 50 years. I am fully aware of the effects of bow leggedness or being knock kneed. I also know that you ski on one ski at a time, you don't put any controlling weight on the inside ski during a turn. I spent the past winter watching very foolish people over loading their inside ski so they look like racers and all they did was periodically hook that inside ski and stumble down the hill.
To get your boots flat when standing straight up, you make adjustments in the side cants on the boots or in extreme cases you install cants under your bindings. I had that done once 40 years ago before side cants where created. In the end, do you know how to compensate for misaligned legs, you lean your hip into the turn more or less to change the leg angle to the point the ski turns the way you want it. All conditions being the same, you may have to lean your hip or knee slightly more on one leg than the other to get the same results. Just like you would make small adjustments to the steering wheel and brake pedal while turning your car. K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple Stupid. That is unless you are in the book and CD business. Then you can really blow skiing out of proportion like Harold Harb or and especially the PSIA! "If you can't tell a 5 year old what you are doing, you don't know what you are doing." Robert Ballard.
Hmmmm. Gotta disagree Robert. a) Many/most of us don't ski on one foot at a time anymore. Sounds like your skiing stopped evolving a while back. b) 'side canting' isn't a thing. The side of your leg is not a weight-bearing surface. The cuff adjustment feature you are referring to is a 'fit' feature of modern boots, intended to properly fit the boot cuff angle to the angle at which your leg attaches to your ankle. It must be correctly adjusted, but, when correctly fit, it should not then be over-adjusted to attempt to change the boot sole angle (aka the cant angle).
...yeah, NO M8. -Some of your earlier comments, dead-on; but this last one (❌) you just blew up. Lol *KISS.
Why can't my ski boots what?
I think this joke is a little old
You'd be correct in thinking that lol