Great video! I own both and honestly my voice sounds the best processed and unprocessed with the 103. Both are amazing but the 103 is the winner in my house. 🤘🏼
Biggest technical differences are: 1) double-diaphragm capsule with variable polar pattern cardio / eight / omni for the U87ai vs. single sided capsule at the TLM103, thus only cardio pattern. 2) single-FET discrete circuit with transformer inside the U87ai vs SMD transformerless circuit at the TLM ('TransformerLessMicrophone') -> preamp choice is more important with the U87ai, to further smoothen it's very fast transients, adding to it's total cost of onwnership. Thus my recommendation: If you are invested in nice preamps or plan to do so, go with the U87ai. If you're planning to use just your interface's built in pre, in most cases TLM103 should do. 3) U87ai has a limited max SPL of only 117dB vs 138dB for the TLM 103 - very loud sources can cause the U87ai to clip, while it's hard to clip a TLM103.
On the topic of flat vs presence boosted mics, one thing to keep in mind is that it’s easier to “tame” a pleasantly (not harshly) presence boosted mics, than to try to make a flat mic to stand out in post, especially if the talent/speaker has naturally flat/receding voice. That is, without bringing up the noise floor with EQ or overcompressing, I think. Cut before boost and so forth. That’s one reason the 103 is so popular in VO. It helps the voice cut through music bed etc. without sounding “too harsh” like Sennheiser MKH 416 might with some voices. Also fairly easy to tame with a simple shelf EQ. It’s a pretty great mic. And so is U87… and the Sennheiser MK4…
The TLM 103 is best, I think for voiceover, due to the boost on the bottom and the top. Great mic! I use it every day. I used to use the Sennhieser 416 but this mic has a better high end.
Would you consider demonstrating a high quality U87 clone? My thought is something like the United Studio Technologies UT Twin87. Might be good for us trying to get as close as possible on a budget.
@@HomeStudioPro I'd contact united anyway, they're a very small company, and you're a known media personality with your other work. Shoot the puck, maybe it goes in. No problem!
Self-noise is not a thing for dynamic mics. That's preamp noise when you have to turn up your preamp because the dynamic mic is less sensitive than most condenser mics. Self-noise is due to the electronics in condenser mics.
When I record vocals, my voice sounds very thin using TLM102, I use an ART tube preamp and Logic Pro for DAW When I sing live using Shure sm58 my voice sounds very thick I like that thickness in my voice Any tips would be greatly appreciated Thanks.
interesting. are you gain staging properly for both mics? phantom power for the 102 since it's a condenser? if it's a similar signal chain, i'm almost inclined to think there could be a defection to the 102. as a large diaphragm condenser it should always have a much thicker and cleaner sound
@@HomeStudioPro Thanks for the reply buddy yes, I am using phantom powers and before the ART preamp I used to have the DBX preamp 576 and it was such a great mic preamp I’m thinking of getting one of those again because I used to have that with no problem ,is it that I am very close to the mic sometime? It sounds a little bit saturated ,although I tried to take a distance from mic but he still doesn’t sound right.
Hey this is 7 mo later but, I found the same with dynamic mics. What is giving that is proximity effect and the foam over the capsule in the diaphragm mics. You can use a kaotica eyeball and get a similar effect. I sold my 103 for a L22 (sphere dlx)@@kishorilalkishoreda5719
If I understood correctly, the TLM 103 is basically a single diaphragm, transformerless version of U87, without the corrective EQ the U87 has built in. Without the corrective EQ, the highs would be more boosted on the U87, similar to 103. The transformer affects the lower frequencies, making it sound more “tight” and “controlled” (U87) vs “realistic” on 103. That’s the difference in technical level. Transformers are more expensive than transformerless designs, but also, transformerless mics are quieter (except the ones with really cheap components) and more “natural” sounding.
The inherently flat quality to the U87ai is probably what makes it such a timeless microphone, because in skilled hands that sound can be shaped to fit whatever the current, in-style sound is for professional productions. Back in the day, it was the more vintage sound with more low and midrange, while in modern times, it's a more bright and clear sound, and this mic can be mixed to fit either really well. Who knows? Maybe in the future, the sound profile will shift to something that's super dark and rich, and the U87ai can probably be tuned for that, too. By the way, didn't you have a shock mount for your 103? What happened to it? And speaking of shock mounts, it seems Neumann decided to bump up the price of the 103's shock mount more recently. I've been seeing that whole package going for almost $1500 these days LOL. As a fellow Rycote USM owner, they're the absolute best, and if I ever get either of these mics in the future, I'm just gonna buy the mic itself. EDIT: False alarm. It seems those $1500 listings include a massive Neumann-branded aluminum carrying case.
The U89 is flat, U87ai has a presence boost. Between these 2: circuit is the same and capsule differs. For those who cannot afford an U89 there is the tlm version of it, tlm193.
In My Very Humble Opinion I think that Neumann ruined the sound of the 87 by adding whatever electronics cause it to be "Ai". The old 87s sound much better to me. Even more so, the old Tube U-67s are fantastic. I don't care for the U-87 Ai. I LOVE my three TLM-103s. They are much warmer plus have the nice Neumann "Air" and can handle huge amounts of level without breaking up. I have recorded many Trumpet sessions with Trumpets less than a foot in front of 103s blasting away with no distortion.
U87 sounds boxy to me and way too mid heavy not really a fan, M49 , U67 and U47 Fet blows it out of the water. TLM 103 is also a lot better to me personally more pleasing
What do your EARS hear as the difference?
(Make sure to listen on headphones or studio monitors)
Great video thanks a lot! I already purchased the 103 and it's on its way. This video really gives me peace of mind that I made the right choice! 👍🏻
you probably already have it... and probably already love it. am i correct?
Thanks man, you just saved me big time from buying U87, am over the moon with my new TLM 103.
I have both but I will be honest I like my 103 better
The same for me.. The 103 is more Warm and Pure sounding.
Great video! I own both and honestly my voice sounds the best processed and unprocessed with the 103. Both are amazing but the 103 is the winner in my house. 🤘🏼
I like the body and the slighty tamer highs of the u87. it feels a bit relaxer on the ears to me. But yeah, you cant go wrong with both.
good point. thanks for being here on the channel!
I feel that old U 87 sounds more fuller and detailed.
Agree. Alsoo the TLM 103 is warmer and fuller to my Ear.
@@rafaelcarmany463 thats not what they said they said the u 87 ????
Excellent comparison. How about doing one more of these with the Electrovoice RE20 vs the RE320? (I own the last one)
Thank you! Hard problem though, I only have the re20 anymore… I had two 320s but sold them both to actually purchase the 20
Biggest technical differences are: 1) double-diaphragm capsule with variable polar pattern cardio / eight / omni for the U87ai vs. single sided capsule at the TLM103, thus only cardio pattern. 2) single-FET discrete circuit with transformer inside the U87ai vs SMD transformerless circuit at the TLM ('TransformerLessMicrophone') -> preamp choice is more important with the U87ai, to further smoothen it's very fast transients, adding to it's total cost of onwnership. Thus my recommendation: If you are invested in nice preamps or plan to do so, go with the U87ai. If you're planning to use just your interface's built in pre, in most cases TLM103 should do. 3) U87ai has a limited max SPL of only 117dB vs 138dB for the TLM 103 - very loud sources can cause the U87ai to clip, while it's hard to clip a TLM103.
Good details! And thanks for being here.
thank you so much
absolutely! thanks for being here on the channel
On the topic of flat vs presence boosted mics, one thing to keep in mind is that it’s easier to “tame” a pleasantly (not harshly) presence boosted mics, than to try to make a flat mic to stand out in post, especially if the talent/speaker has naturally flat/receding voice. That is, without bringing up the noise floor with EQ or overcompressing, I think. Cut before boost and so forth.
That’s one reason the 103 is so popular in VO. It helps the voice cut through music bed etc. without sounding “too harsh” like Sennheiser MKH 416 might with some voices. Also fairly easy to tame with a simple shelf EQ.
It’s a pretty great mic. And so is U87… and the Sennheiser MK4…
The TLM 103 is best, I think for voiceover, due to the boost on the bottom and the top. Great mic! I use it every day. I used to use the Sennhieser 416 but this mic has a better high end.
Would you consider demonstrating a high quality U87 clone? My thought is something like the United Studio Technologies UT Twin87. Might be good for us trying to get as close as possible on a budget.
Would love to. I just don’t have one handy. 😳 maybe if the channel gets big enough. Thanks for being here!
@@HomeStudioPro I'd contact united anyway, they're a very small company, and you're a known media personality with your other work. Shoot the puck, maybe it goes in. No problem!
1073 + 103 = ❤ (for me at least for vocals)
Self-noise is not a thing for dynamic mics. That's preamp noise when you have to turn up your preamp because the dynamic mic is less sensitive than most condenser mics. Self-noise is due to the electronics in condenser mics.
Well stated!!
@HomeStudioPro Thanks; not my first rodeo. :)
The S and T letters sound harsher on the TLM 103 even from my phone
I think that the loss of extras like "Pad, Pattern Switch, Filter, etc." make the TLM 103 have a more Pure and Natural sound.
When I record vocals, my voice sounds very thin using TLM102, I use an ART tube preamp and Logic Pro for DAW
When I sing live using Shure sm58 my voice sounds very thick
I like that thickness in my voice
Any tips would be greatly appreciated
Thanks.
interesting. are you gain staging properly for both mics? phantom power for the 102 since it's a condenser? if it's a similar signal chain, i'm almost inclined to think there could be a defection to the 102. as a large diaphragm condenser it should always have a much thicker and cleaner sound
@@HomeStudioPro Thanks for the reply buddy yes, I am using phantom powers and before the ART preamp I used to have the DBX preamp 576 and it was such a great mic preamp I’m thinking of getting one of those again because I used to have that with no problem ,is it that I am very close to the mic sometime? It sounds a little bit saturated ,although I tried to take a distance from mic but he still doesn’t sound right.
Hey this is 7 mo later but, I found the same with dynamic mics. What is giving that is proximity effect and the foam over the capsule in the diaphragm mics. You can use a kaotica eyeball and get a similar effect. I sold my 103 for a L22 (sphere dlx)@@kishorilalkishoreda5719
If I understood correctly, the TLM 103 is basically a single diaphragm, transformerless version of U87, without the corrective EQ the U87 has built in.
Without the corrective EQ, the highs would be more boosted on the U87, similar to 103. The transformer affects the lower frequencies, making it sound more “tight” and “controlled” (U87) vs “realistic” on 103. That’s the difference in technical level.
Transformers are more expensive than transformerless designs, but also, transformerless mics are quieter (except the ones with really cheap components) and more “natural” sounding.
Can you grab a Lauten Atlantis, or Clarion? They give Neumann a really good fight.
I'd love to! IF only I knew where/how. Thanks for being here on the channel
Thanks ❤
🔥🔥🔥🔥
Thank you!!
The inherently flat quality to the U87ai is probably what makes it such a timeless microphone, because in skilled hands that sound can be shaped to fit whatever the current, in-style sound is for professional productions. Back in the day, it was the more vintage sound with more low and midrange, while in modern times, it's a more bright and clear sound, and this mic can be mixed to fit either really well. Who knows? Maybe in the future, the sound profile will shift to something that's super dark and rich, and the U87ai can probably be tuned for that, too.
By the way, didn't you have a shock mount for your 103? What happened to it?
And speaking of shock mounts, it seems Neumann decided to bump up the price of the 103's shock mount more recently. I've been seeing that whole package going for almost $1500 these days LOL. As a fellow Rycote USM owner, they're the absolute best, and if I ever get either of these mics in the future, I'm just gonna buy the mic itself.
EDIT: False alarm. It seems those $1500 listings include a massive Neumann-branded aluminum carrying case.
I do still have the 103 shock mount. Maybe just too lazy to use it on some videos. Thanks for being here!!
The U 87 i and U 87 ai are not flat. They have a marked presence peak. You want flat? Try the U 89 i.
Great Point that u Make is that those both do Not matter if the Acoustica is not trated 😢
After hearing the 87, the103 sounds so (too) bright.
alot of rappers use the tlm 103
The U89 is flat, U87ai has a presence boost. Between these 2: circuit is the same and capsule differs.
For those who cannot afford an U89 there is the tlm version of it, tlm193.
TLM 103 is very sensitive to sibilants.
In My Very Humble Opinion I think that Neumann ruined the sound of the 87 by adding whatever electronics cause it to be "Ai". The old 87s sound much better to me. Even more so, the old Tube U-67s are fantastic. I don't care for the U-87 Ai. I LOVE my three TLM-103s. They are much warmer plus have the nice Neumann "Air" and can handle huge amounts of level without breaking up. I have recorded many Trumpet sessions with Trumpets less than a foot in front of 103s blasting away with no distortion.
der Sound vom u87 kommt einem direkt vertraut vor!!!!
U87 sounds boxy to me and way too mid heavy not really a fan, M49 , U67 and U47 Fet blows it out of the water. TLM 103 is also a lot better to me personally more pleasing
Cursed with a deeper but sibilant voice 😭