Excellent discussion. I have been wrestling with my own thoughts about this game and you helped clarify some of my confusion about its themes. I particularly liked how you separated the discussion into game as poetry, love story and science fiction, whilst still weaving an overarching understanding of the game throughout these. I had a similar discussion with a friend of mine who loved the game purely as an experiential, emotional poem, whereas i am someone who wants to understand games more concretely. The divide between art and science implicit in the framing of the game extend to its interpretation as well apparently , which might be another untended meta theme. It encourages pluralism, denies a unified singular interpretation, but still has plenty of discrete elements that can be analyzed . Interestingly, , this friend of mine actually studies the intersection of poetry and game,, and introduced me to a book that tackles that subject called ""Dual Wield, the Interplay of Poetry and Video Games"" . Instead of trying to summarize it, ill just quote a part that captures some of what you were talking about in the video, at least to me. ""In the popular imagination, poetry and video games lie at opposite ends of a scale that runs from the aloof to the frivolous, from high art to low. Poetry is regard- ed as serious, cerebral, cryptic and hermitic, video games as flashy, trivial and senseless amusements. Poetry is technologically simple and semantically com- plex; video games are semantically simple and technologically complex. More- over, each is associated with a different palette of emotions: poetry with wistful- ness, melancholy, yearning, video games with agitation, excitement, impatience. One of the barriers to hybridity and interplay is the accompanying perception that any close relationship is detrimental in both directions: poetry being trivial- ised by association, video games made dour and ponderous"" Anyways, looking forward to your future videos!
Fantastic quote! It clears up my thinking on the matter and makes me jealous-jealous I hadn't written it myself, as all great writing does. I put the book on my Amazon wishlist as a future purchase. If your friend knows of any other great books analyzing the medium of games, feel free to recommend more. I'm an English teacher, and so my familiarity with literature is abundant, but I'd love to grow a greater understanding of the academic side of video game analysis-nothing is off limits! I'm pinning your comment. I consider it an excellent example of engaging critically with my videos, offering insights and/or avenues of research. Thank you so much for stopping by and leaving such a rich comment.
@@ToGamesItMayConcern No problem at all. Ill try to tell a few folks about your channel as well Given that you are an english teacher, (which is not surprising given the writing quality in your videos lol) here are a few books we have talked about living on the intersection of games and literature and narrative - Hamlet on the Holodeck , Janet Murray - Computers as theathre , brenda laurel - Literary gaming, astrid ensslin -Cybertext , Espen Arseth - Video Game Narrative and Criticism Playing the Story, Tamer Thabet -Performativity in Art, Literature, and Videogames by Darshana Jayemann Beyond listing an endless amount of books though, the podcast "game studies study buddies" is the best resource I have found when in comes to foundational books in the field. They have around 50 episodes, each dedicated to a book in game studies, and its hosted by two academics. Hope that helps!
Wow, this is great! Thank you for taking the time to recommend each of these, especially the podcast, as that should be a wealth of future material for me to peruse over time. You're a swell person. Both of your comments have really made my day, and I'm excited to dive deep into this stuff over the next year. My hope is it will refine my thinking for future videos. Thank you for all of this!
Thank you! There's a sequel coming out too. With the success of the first one I hope they're able to push themselves even further. The more experimental, poetic games like this the better.
Mind. Blown! First of all, kudos for even covering this game. So amazing, wow! But OMG the moment you said that he is seeing all time at once, immediately the piece of the game that was so confusing to me started to make sense. I hate that I had to skip your spoiler section, I haven't finished this game and now with that tidbit of information I need to go back and start from the beginning with that knowledge. But I'll be back to say more once I've finished and FINALLY understand this. It's weird how much I love games that I don't even understand. I need to start Kentucky Route Zero again...more confusingness that I can't get enough of!
Kentucky Route Zero!-that's a game we've yet to cover and yet we must! The best games for us are those that dwell in ambiguity, allowing not just free-interpretation but teasing out a problem so complex as to remain unresolved. Those are the problems worth facing in a narrative. I'm glad you watched this video. It happens to be among my favorites, though it didn't end up quite as popular as others.
@@ToGamesItMayConcern the best games are those that "dwell in ambiguity" ...how eloquently put. I love when games linger with you long after they are done as you turn it over and over in you mind...days, weeks or even years later. Some of my most favorite videos are those that were the least popular, so I understand exactly where you are coming from. I see a few more gems in your catalogue that I will be checking out really soon.
I just finished the game and as simple as it may sound, I just wanted to say thank you for your work. I'd love to say some things and ask some others but it's 4 am and I'm very tired. Just felt the need to say thank you.
Hey, I'm literally shutting down my PC to finally sleep, but thank you! I imagine kind comments like yours can feel as if they float in the internet ether as if small and lost, but such words are always, always meaningful. So much of this work-this creative reviewing of games-feels like mutterings set to drift for a long while; your words, even though few, are motivating. You may notice a break in video releases: we're just spending extra time on the next one. Should be out Friday. But, like I said, time for me to sleep, too, but, again, thank you!
Finally got around to this game and I'm so glad this review exists! 14:10 ngl I thought it was maybe more so a clever nod to the "watchmaker analogy/argument." Like that feels too perfect and fitting to me at least.
Oh, yeah, that game should be great. I'm looking forward to seeing how they expand the ideas they toyed with in this one. I hope the success of the first game grants them more freedom for the second.
@@ToGamesItMayConcern agreed! I need to go back through the first one after your insights in preparation for the new one. It seems to build upon the concept in some ways
This is a great analysis! I was processing all the stuff the game was giving me, and this definitely helped a lot. When you mentioned Miss Mass and who the affair is with, I remembered that the game showed wedding rings and one of them had Miss Mass and Golden Boy’s initials on it. Besides that, this was a fascinating discussion
Oh, yeah, I definitely recommend the game. It's hugely abstract and strange; play patiently and with an open mind and you'll get plenty out of it. There is some jankiness to the controls and bugginess in the presentation, but the ideas at the foundation are solid enough to hold the whole thing together. I just now posted a new review, by the way, for Neon White. It may be of interest for you, not for story reasons, but as a game that strictly nails its mechanics and the fun that follows.
Excellent discussion. I have been wrestling with my own thoughts about this game and you helped clarify some of my confusion about its themes. I particularly liked how you separated the discussion into game as poetry, love story and science fiction, whilst still weaving an overarching understanding of the game throughout these.
I had a similar discussion with a friend of mine who loved the game purely as an experiential, emotional poem, whereas i am someone who wants to understand games more concretely. The divide between art and science implicit in the framing of the game extend to its interpretation as well apparently , which might be another untended meta theme. It encourages pluralism, denies a unified singular interpretation, but still has plenty of discrete elements that can be analyzed .
Interestingly, , this friend of mine actually studies the intersection of poetry and game,, and introduced me to a book that tackles that subject called ""Dual Wield, the Interplay of Poetry and Video Games"" . Instead of trying to summarize it, ill just quote a part that captures some of what you were talking about in the video, at least to me.
""In
the popular imagination, poetry and video games lie at opposite ends of a scale
that runs from the aloof to the frivolous, from high art to low. Poetry is regard-
ed as serious, cerebral, cryptic and hermitic, video games as flashy, trivial and
senseless amusements. Poetry is technologically simple and semantically com-
plex; video games are semantically simple and technologically complex. More-
over, each is associated with a different palette of emotions: poetry with wistful-
ness, melancholy, yearning, video games with agitation, excitement, impatience.
One of the barriers to hybridity and interplay is the accompanying perception
that any close relationship is detrimental in both directions: poetry being trivial-
ised by association, video games made dour and ponderous""
Anyways, looking forward to your future videos!
Fantastic quote! It clears up my thinking on the matter and makes me jealous-jealous I hadn't written it myself, as all great writing does. I put the book on my Amazon wishlist as a future purchase.
If your friend knows of any other great books analyzing the medium of games, feel free to recommend more. I'm an English teacher, and so my familiarity with literature is abundant, but I'd love to grow a greater understanding of the academic side of video game analysis-nothing is off limits!
I'm pinning your comment. I consider it an excellent example of engaging critically with my videos, offering insights and/or avenues of research. Thank you so much for stopping by and leaving such a rich comment.
@@ToGamesItMayConcern No problem at all. Ill try to tell a few folks about your channel as well
Given that you are an english teacher, (which is not surprising given the writing quality in your videos lol) here are a few books we have talked about living on the intersection of games and literature and narrative
- Hamlet on the Holodeck , Janet Murray
- Computers as theathre , brenda laurel
- Literary gaming, astrid ensslin
-Cybertext , Espen Arseth
- Video Game Narrative and Criticism Playing the Story, Tamer Thabet
-Performativity in Art, Literature, and Videogames by Darshana Jayemann
Beyond listing an endless amount of books though, the podcast "game studies study buddies" is the best resource I have found when in comes to foundational books in the field. They have around 50 episodes, each dedicated to a book in game studies, and its hosted by two academics.
Hope that helps!
Wow, this is great! Thank you for taking the time to recommend each of these, especially the podcast, as that should be a wealth of future material for me to peruse over time.
You're a swell person. Both of your comments have really made my day, and I'm excited to dive deep into this stuff over the next year. My hope is it will refine my thinking for future videos. Thank you for all of this!
Wonderfully written video essay and made me appreciate the game even more after finishing it!
Thank you! There's a sequel coming out too. With the success of the first one I hope they're able to push themselves even further. The more experimental, poetic games like this the better.
Mind. Blown! First of all, kudos for even covering this game. So amazing, wow! But OMG the moment you said that he is seeing all time at once, immediately the piece of the game that was so confusing to me started to make sense. I hate that I had to skip your spoiler section, I haven't finished this game and now with that tidbit of information I need to go back and start from the beginning with that knowledge. But I'll be back to say more once I've finished and FINALLY understand this. It's weird how much I love games that I don't even understand. I need to start Kentucky Route Zero again...more confusingness that I can't get enough of!
Kentucky Route Zero!-that's a game we've yet to cover and yet we must!
The best games for us are those that dwell in ambiguity, allowing not just free-interpretation but teasing out a problem so complex as to remain unresolved. Those are the problems worth facing in a narrative.
I'm glad you watched this video. It happens to be among my favorites, though it didn't end up quite as popular as others.
@@ToGamesItMayConcern the best games are those that "dwell in ambiguity" ...how eloquently put. I love when games linger with you long after they are done as you turn it over and over in you mind...days, weeks or even years later.
Some of my most favorite videos are those that were the least popular, so I understand exactly where you are coming from. I see a few more gems in your catalogue that I will be checking out really soon.
I just finished the game and as simple as it may sound, I just wanted to say thank you for your work. I'd love to say some things and ask some others but it's 4 am and I'm very tired. Just felt the need to say thank you.
Hey, I'm literally shutting down my PC to finally sleep, but thank you!
I imagine kind comments like yours can feel as if they float in the internet ether as if small and lost, but such words are always, always meaningful. So much of this work-this creative reviewing of games-feels like mutterings set to drift for a long while; your words, even though few, are motivating.
You may notice a break in video releases: we're just spending extra time on the next one. Should be out Friday. But, like I said, time for me to sleep, too, but, again, thank you!
Finally got around to this game and I'm so glad this review exists!
14:10 ngl I thought it was maybe more so a clever nod to the "watchmaker analogy/argument." Like that feels too perfect and fitting to me at least.
Wish we had thought of that connection. Now that you say it, feels nicely apt. Good catch!
I recently saw that this game is getting a sequel! Nirvana Noir...and it looks intriguing
Oh, yeah, that game should be great. I'm looking forward to seeing how they expand the ideas they toyed with in this one. I hope the success of the first game grants them more freedom for the second.
@@ToGamesItMayConcern agreed! I need to go back through the first one after your insights in preparation for the new one. It seems to build upon the concept in some ways
This is a great analysis! I was processing all the stuff the game was giving me, and this definitely helped a lot. When you mentioned Miss Mass and who the affair is with, I remembered that the game showed wedding rings and one of them had Miss Mass and Golden Boy’s initials on it. Besides that, this was a fascinating discussion
I'm 100% gonna play this. It looks so interesting and Introspective.
Oh, yeah, I definitely recommend the game.
It's hugely abstract and strange; play patiently and with an open mind and you'll get plenty out of it. There is some jankiness to the controls and bugginess in the presentation, but the ideas at the foundation are solid enough to hold the whole thing together.
I just now posted a new review, by the way, for Neon White. It may be of interest for you, not for story reasons, but as a game that strictly nails its mechanics and the fun that follows.
@@ToGamesItMayConcern I'll check it out
Fantastic video! Love the editing and thorough look into the game.
Thanks!
We work hard on these videos, so every little bit of appreciation feels great. Thanks for taking the time to check us out!
What a good video