Stoicism vs. Buddhism | Robert Wright & Massimo Pigliucci [The Wright Show]
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- Опубліковано 22 чер 2017
- 00:33 Massimo’s new book, How to Be a Stoic, and Bob’s forthcoming book, Why Buddhism Is True
06:48 Similarities between Buddhism and Stoicism
15:12 The metaphysics of Stoicism
23:28 Is there a Stoic version of the Buddhist “not-self” doctrine?
31:09 Massimo’s Stoic advice column
47:58 Seneca’s tips for anger management
57:35 Achieving an objective awareness of your emotions
66:30 Using meditation to cope with feelings of failure
Robert Wright (Bloggingheads.tv, The Evolution of God, Nonzero) and Massimo Pigliucci (CUNY Graduate Center, Plato's Footnote, How To Be a Stoic)
Recorded on June 2, 2016
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An adult conversation on UA-cam...how refreshing.
This is my third time listening to this episode. A lot to decompress here. Very enjoyable.
Love the early Stoic ideal of having no need for temples. You are in the universe. That is already your “temple”.
The Temple and the Body
by Basavanna
The rich
will make temples for Siva.
What shall I,
a poor man,
do?
My legs are pillars,
the body the shrine,
the head a cupola
of gold.
Listen, O lord of the meeting rivers,
things standing shall fall,
but the moving ever shall stay.
try and check out
But its such a sacred nice place. Its free from impure thoughts, quiet and beautiful. Im a buddhist and i love going to the temple because the air feels so pure and quiet. Makes me feel so calm and mindful.
Buddha actuall taught that too
He call it the "Attachment" But people somehow still build it for him and monks
believing they will gain good karma
@@Shingojikung I suggest you a book named "The Shape of Ancient Thought" written by Thomas C McEvilley where he tries to answer how the similarity between eastern hindu buddhist and chinese philosophy and greek philosophy came to happen.
Very interesting point about the paradox of cognitive distancing. That had me pause to think for a bit. Great talk!
Great discussion, thanks for the upload.
Great discussion - hope you two get together on these subjects again
very helpful philosophies of life to practice peace and rational thinking to respond to reality
Two of my favorite authors on two of my favorite subjects! It can hardly ever get any better than this!
What a wonderful gift! My two worlds colliding. Thank you for this conversation.
@ The Inner Dolphin , Great name btw ( Dolphin is a favorite Prince track ) this was interesting I would like to hear Taoism and Hermeticism in this type of conversation . Cheers
Great interview
Very very interesting
Thank you.
Excellent conversation. Thanks for sharing.
A wonderful conversation.
Great talk, thank You so much.
Thanks for this conversation!!!
Great discussion -- Buddhism has a higher standard for morality than most religions. To live the ideals of Buddhism is difficult in modern society.
This is awesome thank you
As a buddhist this is what i want to see
A mature and logical conversation
great missionaries of light. spot on.
Nice conversation thank you
Hi Bob! A very good talk with Massimo! Thanks a lot! Have one problem by solving a problem like anger... by dimming down my own emotions, cause I think the other deserves my true expression to hisher behavior, not in a cruel but honest way. I think, i's kind of selfish, to let the other stay in the mist, when you could probably inspire them out to clearity, by speaking out in a moderate way, your thoughts about the theme. Everyone is unique and therefore resposibel for hisher uniqueness which should always come out in a loving but unfiltered manner. Lots of esotherics only found a way to flee responsability, by acting holy in an unholy way, by telling others, it's only maya... Dont mean you, cause think, you are confronting in a constructive way ; )
Goob job! :) Keep it up!
Great comparison and I do see a lot of similarities between Buddhism & Stoics. One of the big differences is Bodhicitta doing everything (8 fold path) from a view of emptiness/without judgement or even loving kindness. And stoics are more concerned with dealing with daily activities with integrity. Not that much different.
Bodhichitta is not from any view of emptiness. There is no 'view' of emptiness. That's kind of the point. Bodhichitta is the human urge to wake up and to do so for the sake of all beings and the world itself. This is not for a particular reason, it is entirely spontaneous and natural. True compassion is an acknowledgement of our connection with all things. It's also though, not being 'nice,' or kind as many think of it. Compassion is the activity of wisdom and so can be quite ruthless in some ways.
Are they really in competition; stoicism and Buddhism seem to go hand in hand?
So true
Bezos' Anti-Bullying Agency, there is no competition that I can see but there may be some possibly seeming contradictions which are worth considering.
" chop wood carry water" enjoyed your conversation. The basics of stoicism and Buddhism are very similar.
Both help a person regulate their neurotransmitters especially dopamine.
Kind of a chicken and egg thing.
Ty
Buddhism is like physics.
Stoicism is like biology.
Ultimate reality vs Worldly reality
These wisdom schools are complimentary!!
Dharma is, to me, the recognition that the laws of the universe, its order, are physical, spiritual and moral, even social so in that sense intelligent in a way that even the gods and spirits were subject to. This seems to accord with the Logos, the pantheist immanence talked about here.
One problem with Buddhism, inherited from Hinduism, that Christianity shared until the reformation is that senses and everyday life are enemies of enlightenment, of being good, of the sacred and so they have monasteries, desert and forest retreats, celibacy etc. In Zen/Chan there are stories of people who receive enlightenment in and through daily life yet it is still considered the fast track to the insights at its core. This also sets up an economy of spiritual specialists supported by the local societies.
I Love Buddhist practice and have been at it for 50 years. But I am aware of its weaknesses, One of which is the way it is practised in the cultures of origin is that it supports very hierarchical political systems. That though the Buddha's teachings were very egalitarian, there is no sociopolitical system that starts from the assumption of equality and recognising this is not a true reality works towards correcting it, as best as it can. This has only happened in Eurocentric Christian inspired societies since the reformation.
It seems Stoicism, with its integration into daily life, is egalitarian though you do need the education to know what previous wise men might have said. Both seem present attitudes of mind that are natural and commonsense ways of coping with life the slings and arrows of suffering life.
Massimo love your book. Read it after being dissolutioned by Christian extremists.
Read the Dhammapada, it's the basic book of Buddha's word's on everyday situations for the layperson & monk. It's subjects like anger with his response in his words to his original students. Why dosent this man know of this common Buddhist book? It's carried like the Bible by Buddhist's in all sects all over the world. I get an impression the host is a knowledgeable person regarding Buddhism generally scolasticlly not from a life's practice. The guest is verry interesting & seems to already grasp simalarities between the two philosophy's.
what's in a name - I don't know the interviewer's practice, but Buddhism in North America came first from Japanese Zen teachers. This tradition does not emphasize the Dhammapada, or for that matter, any materials from the Pali canon. These days, many American Zen teachers are becoming more accepting or at least less negative in this respect. Likewise Buddhism is becoming more varied as immigrants and teachers from South Asia and Tibet/India are becoming more numerous.
Epictetus produced Marcus Aurelius through his teachings, many other people have been “produced” through teachings of these philosophers. Many people that have done great things. Like Nelson Mandela who read meditations by Marcus Aurelius
Because its more zen buddism(east asia based)
based in america. There are 4 branches.
Theravada buddism(south asia based)
is the purest form of buddism where the monks refused to change some of lord buddhas teachings.
The 4 branches are
Therawada
Mahayana
Vajrayana
Zen
Complete Reality Taoism has a view that there is the innate primal mind verses the temporal mind, and the practice is overcoming of conditioned mundanity by detachment and allow the awareness uninhibited by conditioning. There is a lot of subtle nuances involved in coming to know the psychological structure. The Christians may say we are born with original sin and need salvation from a messiah, but the philosophy in the Complete Reality school is more like we have an original goodness that is corrupted, and in a way, we have to unlearn the things that misguided us, that society or our own confusion may have conditioned us during our development. The concept in Hindu schools of Neti Neti, might be to learn what is actually not real...you can gain freedom by learning the BS that you thought was real isn't. By doing that you come to a greater clarity that then makes it easier to continue to see what needs to be purified within your psychology. Easier said than done, but the effort is worth it. Of course we never get rid of the temporal mind, but we just need to learn what is the master, and not mistake the slave as the master.
The serenity prayer was invented by Marcus Aurelius, not by christianism.
The serenity prayer was authored by theologian Reinhold Niebuhr.
christianity and the othe abrahamist copycat religions are ludicrous at best
Christianity is completely ludicrous? It only heavily influenced western music, art, education, architecture, politics, philosophy, language and so on. It is one thing to thoughtfully criticize and question certain aspects of Christianity, it is quite another to outright dismiss it completely.
I’d like to know what Stoics thought about an after life. I guess I going to have to read and listen to more about Stoicism.
it's practical philosophy about how to live a good life whether you believe in God or not
@Don Fox
In short, Stoics are generally unconcerned with the question of an afterlife. If there is one, then we will all find out eventually, if there isn't, then we needn't worry because that is just the way of nature: we come into to being, and go out of being, no point in complaining along the way.
Robert Wright speaking "I'm doing fine" at the beginning is funny, because his eyes and mouth expressions show some kind of bad mood all over his face. By the way... It was a very nice talk!!!!
someone once said that the Buddha would have had to speak 24/7 to say all of the things attributed to him.
That's because there's so many levels from the grose physical up & down or from a Bhuddist perspective from what you consider you as a starting point inward & outward.
Audio only may be a good idea.
Just don't look
Lmao
In early Buddhism, not really "equanimity" is the goal, also have Metta(loving kindness), Mudita, compassion, mindfulness, Samadhi, right view, etc
The real goal is to end the suffering . In early Buddhism, not only philosophy, also have the path to end the suffering, which is still practice by the forest monk nowadays. Example, Ajahn Chah and his disciple.
The mudita ubekkha is truely need in today's society
Stoicism 🧠 head > 🫀heart
Non-duality 🫀heart > 🧠head
Buddhism was huge and more ancient Has Influenced all corners of Asia. I’m pretty sure it got to the west and raise some eye brows for stoic to stem off
👍
Smile. Stoics smile more.
I think the Buddhist view of Logos would be "cause & effect" nothing is permanent. The universe was created by the big bang theory that was the effect of other causes and and the right conditions.
Interesting but not worth listening to due to excessive ads.
You can upload an adblocker free. I never have ads anymore.
Paralyzed with bodily pain permanently. How does that square with foot in the mud.
read steve hagen's book. this robert wright dude is smart, but doesn't have an ounce of poetry in him. nada.
That's the most spot-on description of ole Rob I've ever seen
Steve hagens books are great
He's empty of his self
I'd like more discussions about the Logos. It seems to me even the modern stoics have not updated their understanding. As things are based on logic, mathematics, physics
(you need mathematics to do physics) and ethics. Physics and our understanding has moved on. There's an important piece they haven't added or missed. I know! It' the reason why the good are rewarded and the bad suffer. Also why using violence is the dumbest thing to do. And don't forget the four prime concepts; Wisdom, Temperance, Justice and Courage.
This part of the stoic teaching that you as a foot have to step in a mud is obviously political statement. That is what some general would use to tell the solider.
Ha ha , I stepped on cow dung once , a big soft pile of it, my foot sank in. Lol, luckily, I had my shoe on.
Enlightenment and Nirvana /Buddhahood are not the same thing. The former can happen by accident while practicing 3rd dhyana. The latter has to be attained after much pravtice with 4th dyana while enlightened.
Why be a stoic or a buddhist, when you can be a Daniel Dennett?
+Luka O. Couldn't agree more.... Dan is one of my favorite thinkers of all time
a dentist?
Because Christmas only happens once a year
lol, a little humor mks the world a better place
Luka O., are you serious? I think the only way to be a Daniel Dennett is to actually be DD.
Your family members may very well be wiser than you are assuming them to be.
oh happy face etc did Buddhism achieve this
I have noticed a lot of similarities between Stoicism and Islam as well.
If it means including "UHHH & UMMM" I DONT WANT TO BE PART OF IT!!
The closeness of these people's faces is making me uncomfortable
Vs? 🤣🤣🤣🤣
The Buddhist four noble truths hurt my feelings and now I have lost everything.
..........
Aristotle produced Alexander the Great.
Seneca produced Nero....
Marcus Aurelius produced Commadus......
So.....yeah. Why did the Stoics have such a terrible track record for pupils?
Lacked a passion for virtue, methinks?)) as a parent I feel especially sorry for Marcus Aurelius)
The place you find yourself in when you write a book on Budhism, take the time to deride family members who voted for Trump, and then have the Dalai Lama come out and say that "Europe is for the Europeans!" Lol.
You could learn something from your siblings.
boo-dhism
there is no original sin. the original meaning of sin is: 'to miss the mark'
not to do wrong. this was another product of the egoistic originators of Xianity as Christianity was genocided by the prior named.
stoici thought may have roots in asis as the buddhist missionaries were found to have made it to greece and maybe even to ireland as evidenced by similar architecture there in that style. perhaps they were the original stoics in greece b.c.e. names are after all only labels.
the Xians did not invent monotheism. an egyptian document c. 2600 bc stated that they, the egyptians, recognized One God but did workship with the manifestations of that One. Ausar, as egyptians called the God/Love/Consciousness/One God manifests Itself as the many forms, energies, names in existance. buddhism calls this the void or the beyond.
The stoic guy's answers are too long winded. It made me think that he has some insecurity around the foundations his answers are built on.
They are describing buddhist religion, not realizing its utterly different to real buddhist philosophy, e.g. no gods in the philosophy.
Stoicism is dead
Buddhism is not