It's annoying that there's different settings to enable TC via HDMI vs SDI... same with the start/stop signal. But, it's truly disappointing that there's so few recording options... particularly a UHD 10-bit Long-GOP option.
Timecode over SDI is a part of the RP-188 standard. There's no reason to turn off timecode from SDI. Timecode over HDMI is not a part of the official standard and it's being carried over one of the audio channels. This is why there's an option to turn it on or off in case there's a device that would interpret the signal in the wrong way. So it doesn't matter if it's annoying, it's correct.
Hello, thank you for the great information. I would be grateful if you could explain how to use Tentacle Sync E for time code with a Sony FX6 when recording externally onto the Atomos Ninja V+ and using a MixPre 6 external audio recorder. I understand how to use the Tentacle with the FX6 while recording internally into the camera, but when recording externally to the Atomos it confuses me. Thanks for your time.
Basically, it doesn't matter which timecode device you use. Connect it to the FX6 and set HDMI TC Out to ON in the menu under TC/Media. This will pass the timecode over HDMI to the external recorder. Timecode is always passed over SDI, so you don't need to activate that separately. So you don't need to connect the Tentacle to the Atomos to record timecode. Did that answer your question, or is there something else i can help you with?
Thank you. That answered my question. I will connect the Tentacle Sync to the FX6 and jam timecode. The FX6 will feed timecode to the Ninja V+ via the SDI. I will connect a second Tentacle Sync to the MixPre 6ii and another to my second camera Sony A73. Timecode will be linked across devices, correct?
@@NewGoalsNewDreams The timecode signal should automatically be passed from the camera to the Atomos via SDI. If the timecode isn't showing up on the Atomos, you may need to configure the timecode settings in the Atomos. And yes, that's correct. As you described, you can later synchronize all the footage using the timecode.
Very informative and technical video, great job! On the FX6, is it possible to output video simultaneously via both the HDMI and the SDI outputs at the same time? I am filming a one man film and I already have a Small HD monitor mounted on my FX6 camera connected via HDMI but I want to also connect another monitor out of the SDI port at the same time so that as the actor I can see my lighting changes. Hope that makes sense. If that won't work, what's the cheapest way to achieve this?
It depends on your „Standard“ I would record XAVC-I in the camera plus RAW or ProRes in the Ninja. The camera internal recording is to be regarded as a back-up, as, for example, ugly edges can occur during a RAW recording in overexposed areas. When it comes to ProRes, the camera-internal recording would be available purely as an emergency backup. So far, I have always recorded RAW because of the better control over colors in post-production and resorted to the camera’s internal recording in a few places where there were problems. Take a test for yourself and your work flow to see what is best for your project.
Yesterday I did some extensive testing with my FX6 as well and my Ninja V, and I couldn't help but notice a slight blue-ish color shift when I recorded ALL-i internally, VS Ninja ProRes HQ Externally. Also lower contrast, and the image was slightly darker when compared to the Ninja V. Have you ever encountered these mixed results as well? I was just wondering. (Turned of internal Noise Reduction, didn't fix it) *Overall Ninja V looked slightly better, with less artifacts. Of which I was aware with the internal ALL-i, just wasn't aware about a potentiol colour shift.
What I've already noticed in this regard is that there's a difference based on whether you set the clip Attributs data level to automatic or full in Resolve. This significantly impacts the contrast. However, I haven't yet observed a perfect 100% match between the internal and external recordings. As for the Color shift, I haven't caught that aspect yet; I'll have to test it tomorrow. Does this occur in specific situations or settings? Edit: That could be interesting, I have only recorded external ProRes with the black magic recorder and with the Ninja RAW. Should the color shift only occur with the ninja… 🤔 We will see!
I conducted the following test in S-log3.cine: - Internal recording in All-i - External Ninja ProRes - External Ninja RAW - External BM All clips were opened in Resolve with Color Management. Initially, all ProRes clips had more contrast, but adjusting the Data Level to "Full" in the clip attributes made the contrast nearly identical to the camera's internal recording. I increased the exposure of the internal recording by 0.15 to match the brightness of all clips. I couldn't perceive any color shift with the naked eye. Although a slight difference is noticeable on the Vectorscope, Waveform and CIE Chromaticity between the Blackmagic VideoAssist and the Ninja, it's extremely minimal and, as I mentioned, not visible to the eye. RAW is different, mainly due to exposure differences, and even there, I can't see any significant color shift. Could it be that you conducted the test with an inconsistent light source like daylight? Otherwise, I can't explain the varying results you're experiencing. Can you share your testing setup and camera settings?
@@deadendboredom Wow amazing you tested so quickly. I wasn't aware of the contrast being resolve by setting the data levels to full. Did the same and that works like a charm. I tested inside, with a single light source, against a white wall and then me coming in to picture in a black shirt. The All-i Seemed blue-ish in the darker area's in my shirt. I'm currently out for holiday so I will re-do a test when I get back in late September.
@maicovimuto6341 I've just noticed that in your case, the light source probably doesn't make a difference since you're recording the clips simultaneously (in my test with multiple recording devices, I did it sequentially, and that's where it matters). If it's only the very dark areas that are affected, it might be due to compression. let me know when you're testing again; we can then delve into unraveling the mystery.
Thank you for the video! I've a question regarding the APSC crop mode. As far as I know, when you're in crop mode the camera can only record HD internal. Do you know if the camera also only output 1080p via SDI and HDMI in crop mode?
If you set the camera to S35 crop mode, only an output of 1080p is possible on all outputs. If you want to use a crop with higher resolution, I suggest that you use the Clear Image Zoom. You can still record in 4K and also output 4K via HDMI and SDI, but still get an APS-C crop. It sounds absurd because you only zoom digitally into a 4K sensor, but I have just tested it again explicitly and can confirm that clear image zoom x1.5 4K can record more details than S35 1080p crop.
Just got my Sony FX6, I'm trying to decide on external video recorder. I saw in your video Sony FX6 connected to a Blackmagic Video Assit. Does it record Prores RAW?
As a recorder for the FX6, the NinjaV is the better option, since the video assistant only supports BRAW, but the camera can only output ProResRaw (the ninja can record ProResRAW). I also own both recorders myself, but only use the ninja on the FX6. If a simple ProRes LT/422/HQ recording is enough for you, both recorders work perfectly.
Am I able to record 4k 120 ProRes (Non-Raw) with either the ninja v+ or the shogun connect? I've shot ProRes Raw a handful of times already, and it's not worth the extra hassle for my situation as I work in davinci. Just hoping that I can still shoot 120fps externally somehow without having to go to raw. Thank you!
It is possible. I also thought that you could only get the complete sensor in RAW, but I overlooked that the distortion compensation was still activated. Without distortion compensation, RAW with 4.2K and internal 3840x2160 have the identical image sections. Only 4096x2160 has a slightly narrower image section.
@@deadendboredom So it will scan tge whole area but scale it down to UHD and then stretch the pixel aspect ratio so you dont get a squeezed image? This could be very interesting for anamorphic lenses since there are some very affordabe 1.6x squeeze lenses which woukd then end up at pretty close to 2.4:1 cinema scope on a 3:2 sensor unsqueezed.
@@disco.jellyfish I am sorry for the misunderstanding, you won’t get the whole 3:2 sensor that you get in photo mode in any video mode. You only get a 1:1 read out of the 16:9 aspect ratio. Definitely a missed opportunity from Sony’s side when it comes to a cinema camera. So unfortunately not a good anamorphic mode! 4.2K RAW is 4264x2408
I haven’t regretted it yet. If you need a larger display anyway and sometimes want to record in better quality, then it’s worth it. Two things to think about: I have not yet found a really optimal way to attach the ninja to the camera. It’s always a little shaky, or unwieldy. And for customers for whom the quality doesn’t have to be maximum, I don’t use the device at all - so you have to honestly ask yourself whether the extra weight and bulk is worth the plus in quality, or whether your customers don’t care anyway.
Can do prores raw on fx6 up to 4k 60p max on Shogun 7 and cannot use the prores raw files in raw converter, they won't work. You are stuck with prores raw and will have to convert to 444 if you want to go into resolve.
Thank you for that Project/SDI/HDMI Rec Control Tip My Ninja V now records from the camera record control!!!! Subscribed!
very informative video, thank you very much
It's annoying that there's different settings to enable TC via HDMI vs SDI... same with the start/stop signal. But, it's truly disappointing that there's so few recording options... particularly a UHD 10-bit Long-GOP option.
Timecode over SDI is a part of the RP-188 standard. There's no reason to turn off timecode from SDI. Timecode over HDMI is not a part of the official standard and it's being carried over one of the audio channels. This is why there's an option to turn it on or off in case there's a device that would interpret the signal in the wrong way. So it doesn't matter if it's annoying, it's correct.
Hello, thank you for the great information. I would be grateful if you could explain how to use Tentacle Sync E for time code with a Sony FX6 when recording externally onto the Atomos Ninja V+ and using a MixPre 6 external audio recorder. I understand how to use the Tentacle with the FX6 while recording internally into the camera, but when recording externally to the Atomos it confuses me. Thanks for your time.
Basically, it doesn't matter which timecode device you use. Connect it to the FX6 and set HDMI TC Out to ON in the menu under TC/Media. This will pass the timecode over HDMI to the external recorder. Timecode is always passed over SDI, so you don't need to activate that separately.
So you don't need to connect the Tentacle to the Atomos to record timecode.
Did that answer your question, or is there something else i can help you with?
Thank you. That answered my question. I will connect the Tentacle Sync to the FX6 and jam timecode. The FX6 will feed timecode to the Ninja V+ via the SDI. I will connect a second Tentacle Sync to the MixPre 6ii and another to my second camera Sony A73. Timecode will be linked across devices, correct?
I just read your answer again. Do I need to use HDMI to the Atomos? I have the Ninja connected to my FX6 with SDI cable.
@@NewGoalsNewDreams The timecode signal should automatically be passed from the camera to the Atomos via SDI. If the timecode isn't showing up on the Atomos, you may need to configure the timecode settings in the Atomos.
And yes, that's correct. As you described, you can later synchronize all the footage using the timecode.
You are awesome, my friend. Thanks so much.
Very informative and technical video, great job! On the FX6, is it possible to output video simultaneously via both the HDMI and the SDI outputs at the same time? I am filming a one man film and I already have a Small HD monitor mounted on my FX6 camera connected via HDMI but I want to also connect another monitor out of the SDI port at the same time so that as the actor I can see my lighting changes. Hope that makes sense. If that won't work, what's the cheapest way to achieve this?
HDMI and SDI can output an image at the same time, but as described in the video, only 3 out of 4 combinations of resolutions are possible.
Does the Fx6 have a clean 4k hdmi out for live streaming.
@@BillAshtonNelo Yes, as you can see in the video, the overlays can be turned on and off. Without the overlay, you get a clean output.
For narrative filmmaking which Codec would you recommend shooting in when using the FX6 + Ninja V?
It depends on your „Standard“
I would record XAVC-I in the camera plus RAW or ProRes in the Ninja. The camera internal recording is to be regarded as a back-up, as, for example, ugly edges can occur during a RAW recording in overexposed areas. When it comes to ProRes, the camera-internal recording would be available purely as an emergency backup.
So far, I have always recorded RAW because of the better control over colors in post-production and resorted to the camera’s internal recording in a few places where there were problems.
Take a test for yourself and your work flow to see what is best for your project.
Yesterday I did some extensive testing with my FX6 as well and my Ninja V, and I couldn't help but notice a slight blue-ish color shift when I recorded ALL-i internally, VS Ninja ProRes HQ Externally. Also lower contrast, and the image was slightly darker when compared to the Ninja V. Have you ever encountered these mixed results as well? I was just wondering. (Turned of internal Noise Reduction, didn't fix it) *Overall Ninja V looked slightly better, with less artifacts. Of which I was aware with the internal ALL-i, just wasn't aware about a potentiol colour shift.
What I've already noticed in this regard is that there's a difference based on whether you set the clip Attributs data level to automatic or full in Resolve. This significantly impacts the contrast. However, I haven't yet observed a perfect 100% match between the internal and external recordings. As for the Color shift, I haven't caught that aspect yet; I'll have to test it tomorrow. Does this occur in specific situations or settings?
Edit: That could be interesting, I have only recorded external ProRes with the black magic recorder and with the Ninja RAW. Should the color shift only occur with the ninja… 🤔
We will see!
I conducted the following test in S-log3.cine:
- Internal recording in All-i
- External Ninja ProRes
- External Ninja RAW
- External BM
All clips were opened in Resolve with Color Management. Initially, all ProRes clips had more contrast, but adjusting the Data Level to "Full" in the clip attributes made the contrast nearly identical to the camera's internal recording.
I increased the exposure of the internal recording by 0.15 to match the brightness of all clips.
I couldn't perceive any color shift with the naked eye. Although a slight difference is noticeable on the Vectorscope, Waveform and CIE Chromaticity between the Blackmagic VideoAssist and the Ninja, it's extremely minimal and, as I mentioned, not visible to the eye.
RAW is different, mainly due to exposure differences, and even there, I can't see any significant color shift.
Could it be that you conducted the test with an inconsistent light source like daylight? Otherwise, I can't explain the varying results you're experiencing. Can you share your testing setup and camera settings?
@@deadendboredom Wow amazing you tested so quickly. I wasn't aware of the contrast being resolve by setting the data levels to full. Did the same and that works like a charm. I tested inside, with a single light source, against a white wall and then me coming in to picture in a black shirt. The All-i Seemed blue-ish in the darker area's in my shirt. I'm currently out for holiday so I will re-do a test when I get back in late September.
@maicovimuto6341 I've just noticed that in your case, the light source probably doesn't make a difference since you're recording the clips simultaneously (in my test with multiple recording devices, I did it sequentially, and that's where it matters). If it's only the very dark areas that are affected, it might be due to compression. let me know when you're testing again; we can then delve into unraveling the mystery.
Thank you for the video! I've a question regarding the APSC crop mode. As far as I know, when you're in crop mode the camera can only record HD internal. Do you know if the camera also only output 1080p via SDI and HDMI in crop mode?
If you set the camera to S35 crop mode, only an output of 1080p is possible on all outputs.
If you want to use a crop with higher resolution, I suggest that you use the Clear Image Zoom. You can still record in 4K and also output 4K via HDMI and SDI, but still get an APS-C crop.
It sounds absurd because you only zoom digitally into a 4K sensor, but I have just tested it again explicitly and can confirm that clear image zoom x1.5 4K can record more details than S35 1080p crop.
@@deadendboredom Thanks, that helped me a lot :)
Just got my Sony FX6, I'm trying to decide on external video recorder. I saw in your video Sony FX6 connected to a Blackmagic Video Assit. Does it record Prores RAW?
As a recorder for the FX6, the NinjaV is the better option, since the video assistant only supports BRAW, but the camera can only output ProResRaw (the ninja can record ProResRAW).
I also own both recorders myself, but only use the ninja on the FX6.
If a simple ProRes LT/422/HQ recording is enough for you, both recorders work perfectly.
Am I able to record 4k 120 ProRes (Non-Raw) with either the ninja v+ or the shogun connect? I've shot ProRes Raw a handful of times already, and it's not worth the extra hassle for my situation as I work in davinci. Just hoping that I can still shoot 120fps externally somehow without having to go to raw. Thank you!
Unfortunately, I have bad news for you, in ProRes you can only record up to 60p, more than that is really only possible in RAW with the Ninja V+
@@deadendboredom Bummer! Thanks so much for the reply though haha. Just saved me from purchasing a shogun connect 😂
Seems like there is no way to make it scan the whole sensor when recording. (?)
It is possible. I also thought that you could only get the complete sensor in RAW, but I overlooked that the distortion compensation was still activated. Without distortion compensation, RAW with 4.2K and internal 3840x2160 have the identical image sections. Only 4096x2160 has a slightly narrower image section.
@@deadendboredom So it will scan tge whole area but scale it down to UHD and then stretch the pixel aspect ratio so you dont get a squeezed image? This could be very interesting for anamorphic lenses since there are some very affordabe 1.6x squeeze lenses which woukd then end up at pretty close to 2.4:1 cinema scope on a 3:2 sensor unsqueezed.
@@disco.jellyfish I am sorry for the misunderstanding, you won’t get the whole 3:2 sensor that you get in photo mode in any video mode. You only get a 1:1 read out of the 16:9 aspect ratio. Definitely a missed opportunity from Sony’s side when it comes to a cinema camera.
So unfortunately not a good anamorphic mode!
4.2K RAW is 4264x2408
@@deadendboredom Thats unfortunate, since its really not like anamorphic lenses are a super rare choice on a cinema camera.
Did you have the pre record on when you got the bug?
No, Picture Cache Rec was not activated. Even if I activate the function, the bug does not occur.
@@deadendboredom thanks. Do think the ninjav was worth it? I’m debating getting it
I haven’t regretted it yet.
If you need a larger display anyway and sometimes want to record in better quality, then it’s worth it.
Two things to think about: I have not yet found a really optimal way to attach the ninja to the camera. It’s always a little shaky, or unwieldy.
And for customers for whom the quality doesn’t have to be maximum, I don’t use the device at all - so you have to honestly ask yourself whether the extra weight and bulk is worth the plus in quality, or whether your customers don’t care anyway.
How about raw on shogun 7 will it work ?
Shogun 7 should work, but only via SDI, with a maximum resolution of DCI 4K and a maximum of 60fps
Shogun 7 isn't supported by raw converter.
Can do prores raw on fx6 up to 4k 60p max on Shogun 7 and cannot use the prores raw files in raw converter, they won't work. You are stuck with prores raw and will have to convert to 444 if you want to go into resolve.
Good to know, thanks for the important note!
@@deadendboredom apparently it's due to the atomos firmware on the Shogun 7. It should work on ninja I think. Anyone tested it?