I completely love the premise of these videos. Too often do people think 'I love x, i can't criticise it', but you seem to be of the mind that to truly love something, you must recognise it's flaws... And i love that.
I think what's unique about the Scythe Gaming Experience is a "Cold War" Feeling. Everyone builds their war machinery and you still have to look out for your ressources to not present opportunities to other players, but ultimately, the game ends when the first real combats start (to get those ease to obtain combat stars). Which is why I think I disagree that the endgame of spreading out and win combats is not thematic. The game just ends kinda dystopian with all players going to war in the end.
I think Scythe is a wonderful Gateway-Game. If you'r often playing with "non-players" or people that don't play boardgames most of the time, Scythe has this wonderful table presence you can catch those people with. The rules are not so hard to master and you can build up your engine in the first rounds very smoothly. You don't need to fight to win the game but still can be mean by stealing ressources from your opponent for example without taking him completely out of the game.
The art on the box before I bought it captures the looming threat of giant mechanical robots. But the focus was the farmers. So it didn't lie and the description didn't lie either. I thought it was pretty accurate.
Hey I remember when you did the first "Everything Scythe Video" one of the first videos of yours I saw! it inspired me to get everything scythe which, I very much enjoy!
I will say that bottom board asymmetry is one of the better points of the game. Since the main board isn't modular, modulating the reward system for a player's actions is a really brilliant way to go about challenging the players game to game. This is such a subtle design choice that I do need to commend Jamey for making. A modular board would have drastic early game effects... but by late game the effects would have been reduced to near zero. By using a modular player board, the game-to-game challenge presented to the players is consistent across the entire game. Though, I do now realize that this comment isn't in the spirit of the video, so I shall shut up.
Catan is what *I* want Catan to be. Scythe is what I want when I want a bloated, overproduced, overhyped engine building area control game with a wonky ending. And yes, sometimes I want that. But I do agree that whereas Catan is a ‘gateway game’, Scythe is the next level up in complexity. But I think both are good in their own right.
I know I’m not the first to say this. But as someone who discovered your channel about a year ago, I’ve been working my way to catching up and seeing Matt in this video made me so happy. He brings such a different dynamic than the others on the channel that I think always adds value to the views and opinions that are shared!
Ok I was interrupted but had to get back to this video because it has been on my mind since I started it earlier...so I finished it and loved the second half as much as the first. I love Scythe mostly because it was a game that I played when I first got back into the hobby in 2019 and realized games could be so much more. It has its flaws as many games do but there is something about it that is just beautiful in its mechanisms. It flows very well and because the turns don't take long it seems to keep people engaged longer. It also holds a special place in my heart because I played it with my son. It is also gorgeous to look at. Thanks Jesse for this video , its so easy these days with so many games to always focus on the new hotness but its nice to know that a game like Scythe, which I consider a modern classic, to get some love.
I got scythe for Christmas and only played it once solo. This game is a beast to teach and that's what's stopping me from playing again. I bought the app last week, I hope that helps with learning and teaching.
Playing solo is a pain for me. I prefer to play with 2 or 3 factions, all of them controlled by me. I don't have a favourite and always try to play the best move for each faction. It's quite fun to try to come up with a 4-turn strategy and pretend the other faction doesn't know about it!
Another reason not to play: in the "last" rounds the bottom actions that were so awesome to be able to do are many times completely useless. Even taking them just for the recruit benefit isn't worth it. So the engine-building side hits a stall and even retracts in a way. Btw, I love this game 😁
When your at that point of the game, the only thing you should think about is to get the last stars out and win the game really. So I dont see it as a problem, just another stage of the game.
@@mattfabian3796 That usually means that you'll be spending resources that worth more by themselves, depending on where you are in the popularity track. Most of the times, in my experience, it's not worth it.
I recommend playing the app to see if you like it. Then you will only be out 7$ instead of 80$. I've enjoyed the 50+ games I've played on the app. It's a good game, but it's just not for me and my group.
IMO, another potential reason you might not want to play: The asymmetric factions are not as balanced as you would hope. Although, this will only be apparent after multiple plays. The yellow (Crimea) and red (Rusviet) factions tend to have more favorable player mat combos than the other factions which allows for them to achieve victory points/conditions more efficiently. This offers them improved potential to quickly end games (sometimes in 13-15 rounds) before the other factions/players have a chance to achieve enough victory conditions/points to be competitive. There are definitely other factors that will dictate victory, but this can still be frustrating for other players when someone receives a stronger/more efficient starting faction & player mat combination. All that said, I still find the game to be incredibly fun. It has provided my gaming group hours of entertainment. Needless to say, the minor cons don’t outweigh the pros for me.
This is where I think bribery and alliances come into play. Everyone is always scared of Rusviet but put them down once or twice collectively and they wimp out!
@@FranciscoRAmado Agreed. After more experience and familiarity with each faction’s strategic options, the gameplay becomes better balanced. When players don’t collectively align against the lead player, that can often hand over an easy victory to them. However, this probably can also be said for other asymmetric games. Again, I only see this being a potential issue with serious, competitive players and maybe less so with casual players.
For me, it would depend on the definition of ‘Epic’. If it’s this: “extending beyond the usual or ordinary especially in size or scope” or in relating to a hero undergoing adventures that are grand in nature or a period of time, usually under difficult circumstances. With those definitions, I don’t consider Scythe ‘Epic’. Even with my Hero token moving around the board to get “encounter tokens” do I feel it encroaches the same scale or sweeping nature as something like ‘War of the Ring, 2nd edition” and “Twilight Imperium IV”. I like the game, and certainly see why it has its fans. I find it above average, and at times fun, but far from a grand epic adventure I think it pretends to want to be.
Even though my online handle goes back to way before this game (2002), I do feel I need to get it. I enjoy most Stonemairer games, this is one of the top ranked games of all time, the game is gorgeous, and it's complete, no more content coming out for it. I just wish I could buy everything as a single package - big box, all content, all the addon bling.
I totally get your point, but what I don’t agree is about your argument of the game don’t present what it is. If you look at the cover of the game, you see workers in the fields and mechs in the background highlighting the dual nature of the game. Also the name Scythe implies an instrument used for agriculture but also as an instrument that can be used as a weapon. The game is hybrid at its core and in presentation. The problem is that people see what they want to see. For example mechs are so awesome that people totally overlook the workers in the field, or the meaning behind the title of the game. Also if you look at the work of the original artist, you will see that the game was designed to fit the theme, not the other way around. So the game never presented itself for what is not it. Having said that all your criticisms about gameplay are just true. The game is unique and definitely worth trying but not looking at it as a tactical war game. The game is much more than that. The “Don’t play” in the title of the video is a great eye catcher strategy ! 😆
Actually, I disagree with your disagreement. 😆 I think these two totally hit nail on the head for me regarding this game, in particular THAT point. It never feels as ‘epic’ as I thought it would, based on the art. And the encounter cards, while somewhat charming at first, lose their appeal over repeated gameplay. The fixed positions of the terrain and limited action selections, make the game feel scripted. That said, I do find the game fun, and will often be in the mood for it. I generally don’t turn down opportunities to play it. But it doesn’t scratch my Top-20.
I think Scythe is one of the best things happened to boardgaming in overall especially with Rise of Fenris expansion. Simply love that game, and heyyy I have also that lovely and expensive Legendary Box 😁. Ofc Scythe has own flaws but this game for me feels like advanced chess game with mechs, and resource/workers managment. Very strategic game and I can agree with that the best thing here is threat of conflict, so called cold war, high tension between players. Mechs are here mostly for scaring or warning others players but nothing can stop you from real war and many mech fights on map. It depends only from players.
I have only got to play this once, really enjoyed the game. Due to not having a play group and hearing iffy things about solo/2 player i have not got this in my collection.
This is my go-to game with my friends, absolutely love it. It definitely is better with 3 players at least, but I do still enjoy 2 player or solo play against the automa. Or add an automa into a multiplayer game! The automa definitely cheats and is quite a different experience than playing against a human. It sets a hard time limit on the game and forces you to really focus on maximizing efficiency. You are moreso battling a somewhat predictable system rather than engaging in psychological tug of war as with another person. I also find I have to play much more aggressively against the automa than I choose to with friends, which can be rewarding in its own way. Don't be afraid of solo play. The automa system is easy to learn and does not require complexity of thought to oversee. It can be played just as well by splitting the "automa deck" (which governs its actions) in half to create a second automa opponent. Additional decks are available to fully add more automa players.
Only reason I haven't played in awhile is the imbalance. When the Rusviet player can cover a 40 coin bid and win, that is too much. If you play base game only then it is better, but their are some really bad combos that cant win. The expansion factions need to be fixed, they are way underpowered.
Hey, I ranted in the comments last time about your review of R6, but I subscribed anyway and your channel is cool. So, sorry about that but be careful when editors send you prototypes. It's difficult to think you are still honnest and not biaised in your judgement. Most particularly in case of kickstarters. With a top pledge at 300 doll. Also when they use your video in the KS page to promote the game.
This is one I absolutely agree with 100% I have played this game over a dozen times because one of the groups I play in loves it. It is like watching paint dry or grass grow, it is the most boring experience I have had with a game. I once won the game by trying my hardest to do everything I could to lose. That said, I was initially impressed with the mechanics. I thought the two board placement with the action selection mechanic was fairly unique and I liked it in theory. Unfortunately, it could not make up for absolutely terribly gameplay.
Sorry, but it's absolutely strange to watch this video because Matt seems to be forced to agree to your criticism points. You can see how unpleasant he feels every second of the video... By the way, I don't like Scythe because of the reasons you name...
I completely love the premise of these videos. Too often do people think 'I love x, i can't criticise it', but you seem to be of the mind that to truly love something, you must recognise it's flaws... And i love that.
Man, it’s been a while since Matt has been in a vid, and it’s good to see him back!
I think what's unique about the Scythe Gaming Experience is a "Cold War" Feeling. Everyone builds their war machinery and you still have to look out for your ressources to not present opportunities to other players, but ultimately, the game ends when the first real combats start (to get those ease to obtain combat stars). Which is why I think I disagree that the endgame of spreading out and win combats is not thematic. The game just ends kinda dystopian with all players going to war in the end.
Absolutely! That’s one of the best parts!
Maaaan, I really do missed Matt, glad to see him back! I ve enjoyed qquite a lot your previous Scythe videos
I think Scythe is a wonderful Gateway-Game. If you'r often playing with "non-players" or people that don't play boardgames most of the time, Scythe has this wonderful table presence you can catch those people with. The rules are not so hard to master and you can build up your engine in the first rounds very smoothly. You don't need to fight to win the game but still can be mean by stealing ressources from your opponent for example without taking him completely out of the game.
The art on the box before I bought it captures the looming threat of giant mechanical robots. But the focus was the farmers.
So it didn't lie and the description didn't lie either. I thought it was pretty accurate.
The impression it gives can be confusing :)
FYI Introduction has to be set to 00:00, otherwise there are no timestamps in the video timeline.
Hey I remember when you did the first "Everything Scythe Video" one of the first videos of yours I saw! it inspired me to get everything scythe which, I very much enjoy!
I will say that bottom board asymmetry is one of the better points of the game. Since the main board isn't modular, modulating the reward system for a player's actions is a really brilliant way to go about challenging the players game to game. This is such a subtle design choice that I do need to commend Jamey for making. A modular board would have drastic early game effects... but by late game the effects would have been reduced to near zero. By using a modular player board, the game-to-game challenge presented to the players is consistent across the entire game. Though, I do now realize that this comment isn't in the spirit of the video, so I shall shut up.
Great to see Matt back! Id love to see another random game of Scythe with more players, please!
One thing you missed is the balancing problem Scythe obviously has. There are some combinations which are hard to beat.
Scythe is the next game you go to, when you have played Catan one too many times.
Scythe is what your always WANTED Catan to be. 😏
XD this is accurate
Catan is what *I* want Catan to be.
Scythe is what I want when I want a bloated, overproduced, overhyped engine building area control game with a wonky ending. And yes, sometimes I want that.
But I do agree that whereas Catan is a ‘gateway game’, Scythe is the next level up in complexity. But I think both are good in their own right.
Good point, scythe really does feel like a suped up (and more interesting 😛) Catan
Scythe didnt appeal to me before neither does it after this vid even tho I understand it better. Thanks!
Can I get a link/reference to those game-breaking encounter cards? I'm extremely interested.
I know I’m not the first to say this. But as someone who discovered your channel about a year ago, I’ve been working my way to catching up and seeing Matt in this video made me so happy. He brings such a different dynamic than the others on the channel that I think always adds value to the views and opinions that are shared!
Love this video...I love Scythe and also nice to see ya'll get back together!!!
Ok I was interrupted but had to get back to this video because it has been on my mind since I started it earlier...so I finished it and loved the second half as much as the first. I love Scythe mostly because it was a game that I played when I first got back into the hobby in 2019 and realized games could be so much more. It has its flaws as many games do but there is something about it that is just beautiful in its mechanisms. It flows very well and because the turns don't take long it seems to keep people engaged longer. It also holds a special place in my heart because I played it with my son. It is also gorgeous to look at. Thanks Jesse for this video , its so easy these days with so many games to always focus on the new hotness but its nice to know that a game like Scythe, which I consider a modern classic, to get some love.
We want to try Scythe tomorrow.
Do it :)
One of my favorite games ever!!! Love the Fenris campaign and the spoilers that were revealed our first play through it.
I got scythe for Christmas and only played it once solo. This game is a beast to teach and that's what's stopping me from playing again. I bought the app last week, I hope that helps with learning and teaching.
Playing solo is a pain for me. I prefer to play with 2 or 3 factions, all of them controlled by me.
I don't have a favourite and always try to play the best move for each faction.
It's quite fun to try to come up with a 4-turn strategy and pretend the other faction doesn't know about it!
Another reason not to play: in the "last" rounds the bottom actions that were so awesome to be able to do are many times completely useless. Even taking them just for the recruit benefit isn't worth it. So the engine-building side hits a stall and even retracts in a way.
Btw, I love this game 😁
Not a bad argument!
When your at that point of the game, the only thing you should think about is to get the last stars out and win the game really. So I dont see it as a problem, just another stage of the game.
You can still take the bottom row action for the coin
@@mattfabian3796 That usually means that you'll be spending resources that worth more by themselves, depending on where you are in the popularity track. Most of the times, in my experience, it's not worth it.
Love scythe! And i am all ears))
Hope you enjoyed it!
One of my favorites. Lack of portability is a drawback. I have the Big Box and it’s like packing around a cinder block! Campaign was really fun.
I have it and it was my most "blinged" out game.
I recommend playing the app to see if you like it. Then you will only be out 7$ instead of 80$.
I've enjoyed the 50+ games I've played on the app. It's a good game, but it's just not for me and my group.
I believe I remember this guy... from a game of root on this channel, long ago..
IMO, another potential reason you might not want to play: The asymmetric factions are not as balanced as you would hope.
Although, this will only be apparent after multiple plays. The yellow (Crimea) and red (Rusviet) factions tend to have more favorable player mat combos than the other factions which allows for them to achieve victory points/conditions more efficiently. This offers them improved potential to quickly end games (sometimes in 13-15 rounds) before the other factions/players have a chance to achieve enough victory conditions/points to be competitive. There are definitely other factors that will dictate victory, but this can still be frustrating for other players when someone receives a stronger/more efficient starting faction & player mat combination.
All that said, I still find the game to be incredibly fun. It has provided my gaming group hours of entertainment. Needless to say, the minor cons don’t outweigh the pros for me.
This is where I think bribery and alliances come into play. Everyone is always scared of Rusviet but put them down once or twice collectively and they wimp out!
@@FranciscoRAmado Agreed. After more experience and familiarity with each faction’s strategic options, the gameplay becomes better balanced. When players don’t collectively align against the lead player, that can often hand over an easy victory to them. However, this probably can also be said for other asymmetric games.
Again, I only see this being a potential issue with serious, competitive players and maybe less so with casual players.
I'll be back after lunch to watch this. Because MATT!
(I already own and love Scythe, so the content itself doesn't really matter lol)
Hahah right!!
It’s really weird to see Oath while you are talking about Scythe with the box next to you 😵
Oath actually
@@kringfish4078 Right…still wierd
Sure - we hadn’t saved the Oath game yet and Matt had a hour drive home. I wanted to get him back on the channel :)
@@Quackalope 😵💫 😆
That box is legendary....also, the game is epic....what more needs to be said??
Fair enough!
For me, it would depend on the definition of ‘Epic’.
If it’s this: “extending beyond the usual or ordinary especially in size or scope” or in relating to a hero undergoing adventures that are grand in nature or a period of time, usually under difficult circumstances.
With those definitions, I don’t consider Scythe ‘Epic’. Even with my Hero token moving around the board to get “encounter tokens” do I feel it encroaches the same scale or sweeping nature as something like ‘War of the Ring, 2nd edition” and “Twilight Imperium IV”. I like the game, and certainly see why it has its fans. I find it above average, and at times fun, but far from a grand epic adventure I think it pretends to want to be.
Even though my online handle goes back to way before this game (2002), I do feel I need to get it. I enjoy most Stonemairer games, this is one of the top ranked games of all time, the game is gorgeous, and it's complete, no more content coming out for it.
I just wish I could buy everything as a single package - big box, all content, all the addon bling.
I totally get your point, but what I don’t agree is about your argument of the game don’t present what it is. If you look at the cover of the game, you see workers in the fields and mechs in the background highlighting the dual nature of the game. Also the name Scythe implies an instrument used for agriculture but also as an instrument that can be used as a weapon. The game is hybrid at its core and in presentation. The problem is that people see what they want to see. For example mechs are so awesome that people totally overlook the workers in the field, or the meaning behind the title of the game. Also if you look at the work of the original artist, you will see that the game was designed to fit the theme, not the other way around. So the game never presented itself for what is not it. Having said that all your criticisms about gameplay are just true. The game is unique and definitely worth trying but not looking at it as a tactical war game. The game is much more than that. The “Don’t play” in the title of the video is a great eye catcher strategy ! 😆
I actually really agree with your points - besides and despite my own experience with the game.
Actually, I disagree with your disagreement. 😆
I think these two totally hit nail on the head for me regarding this game, in particular THAT point. It never feels as ‘epic’ as I thought it would, based on the art. And the encounter cards, while somewhat charming at first, lose their appeal over repeated gameplay. The fixed positions of the terrain and limited action selections, make the game feel scripted.
That said, I do find the game fun, and will often be in the mood for it. I generally don’t turn down opportunities to play it.
But it doesn’t scratch my Top-20.
@@mrp4242 have you play the game with the modular board?
@@Quackalope I just disagree with the game not presenting itself as it is, but I totally understand what you mean.
I think Scythe is one of the best things happened to boardgaming in overall especially with Rise of Fenris expansion.
Simply love that game, and heyyy I have also that lovely and expensive Legendary Box 😁.
Ofc Scythe has own flaws but this game for me feels like advanced chess game with mechs, and resource/workers managment.
Very strategic game and I can agree with that the best thing here is threat of conflict, so called cold war, high tension between players.
Mechs are here mostly for scaring or warning others players but nothing can stop you from real war and many mech fights on map. It depends only from players.
Great to see Matt back
I have only got to play this once, really enjoyed the game. Due to not having a play group and hearing iffy things about solo/2 player i have not got this in my collection.
This is my go-to game with my friends, absolutely love it. It definitely is better with 3 players at least, but I do still enjoy 2 player or solo play against the automa. Or add an automa into a multiplayer game!
The automa definitely cheats and is quite a different experience than playing against a human. It sets a hard time limit on the game and forces you to really focus on maximizing efficiency. You are moreso battling a somewhat predictable system rather than engaging in psychological tug of war as with another person. I also find I have to play much more aggressively against the automa than I choose to with friends, which can be rewarding in its own way.
Don't be afraid of solo play. The automa system is easy to learn and does not require complexity of thought to oversee. It can be played just as well by splitting the "automa deck" (which governs its actions) in half to create a second automa opponent. Additional decks are available to fully add more automa players.
Would really appreciate time stamps
Check the description - they are there
Only reason I haven't played in awhile is the imbalance. When the Rusviet player can cover a 40 coin bid and win, that is too much. If you play base game only then it is better, but their are some really bad combos that cant win.
The expansion factions need to be fixed, they are way underpowered.
Never been a huge fan of euros. I think the theming is really cool, but it seems a bit too heavy in a genre Im not inclined to try out any time soon.
It wasn’t as heavy as I wanted it to be, actually, for what it is.
Hey, I ranted in the comments last time about your review of R6, but I subscribed anyway and your channel is cool. So, sorry about that but be careful when editors send you prototypes. It's difficult to think you are still honnest and not biaised in your judgement. Most particularly in case of kickstarters. With a top pledge at 300 doll. Also when they use your video in the KS page to promote the game.
I hear your concern - hope you can enjoy the non KS content.
@@Quackalope ...
Hey MATT!
He visited!!
👋
This is one I absolutely agree with 100% I have played this game over a dozen times because one of the groups I play in loves it. It is like watching paint dry or grass grow, it is the most boring experience I have had with a game. I once won the game by trying my hardest to do everything I could to lose. That said, I was initially impressed with the mechanics. I thought the two board placement with the action selection mechanic was fairly unique and I liked it in theory. Unfortunately, it could not make up for absolutely terribly gameplay.
Sorry, but it's absolutely strange to watch this video because Matt seems to be forced to agree to your criticism points. You can see how unpleasant he feels every second of the video...
By the way, I don't like Scythe because of the reasons you name...