@@dominiquedistefanothe aforementioned two, won LeMans the same number of times. But really who cares, the F1 has a BMW luxo-barge V12 and is a tad overrated imho
@@sub7up. It's not that simple lol. I'm pretty sure for the independent 2017 ACR attempt they had to crowd fund $200k for only three days of closed track time, and two of the days landed on bad weather.
I'm just so amazed they did this. Zero gain for the stockholders. Actually a bit of negative PR, when the 2003 car with just (not even ultra grippy) new tires comes dangerously close to the latest and greatest Porsche has to offer. Anyway, props, because that was really amazing to see!
Add.: because you were talking about improvements Misha, imagine this car just with modern brakes.. modern state of the art pads, modern ABS, modern stability control to keep the car planted under all braking scenarios.. that alone will yet again shave off many seconds off the time.
And another addendum: Marc Basseng did the 7:28. And btw. he also complained about the soft damping even back then :P -> ua-cam.com/video/Dzai7PgLinQ/v-deo.html
This seems related to a recent recall from Porsche. New suspension components and Porsche offers new tires. Maybe to also clean the bad reputation Carrera GT has from the past. The stock tires weren't that good in 2003. When Paul Walker died the car had 8 year old tires. And they were speeding... Doug DeMuro has talked about it several times. ua-cam.com/video/MeOdbkGM6kU/v-deo.html
The way i see it is that porsche is trying to prevent lawsuit by CGT owners by saying "bruh didnt you see the CGT is actually driveable and keep up with modern track-specialized cars? Its just you with your skill issue if you crash"
Shut up dude! The track isn't wider at all "at some sections". These are just parts of the track, where more safety was much needed. These minimal "changes" did NOTHING to the lap times! Smart a...es like you are annoying dude!
Walter Rohrl did 7:32 on the OEM Michelin Pilot Sport tires and with just a true swap to racing slicks (Cup 2R), they shaved off 20 seconds. Just goes to show how huge the difference tires make
9:15 Jörg also said on his instagram account, that he was not pushing 100% because he had to give the car back without any damage. he said atleast 1 to 2 seconds were left in the tank after the lap.. so a 7:10 and with upgraded suspension a sub 7 could defenitely be possible just shows why we all love the old supercars and hypercars so much. often a free reving N/A engine with lots of power and super light body, often under 1300kg. Des Bedarfs also shows how much the old cars could threaten the new cars despite having the huge disadvantage of age.
@@maximborodyuk3773 many cars are under 1300kg. Mclaren F1, Zonda and Huayra, F40, F50, Murray T.50 and T.33, McLaren 765LT, Radical SR8, Gumpert Apollo, multiple Donkervoorts, KTM X-BOW, Lotus Exige's and probabaly many more. .. Carrera GT, M3 CSL, Koenigsegg Jesko and One, Cayman GT4, 488 Pista, Huracán STO, Gallardo Superleggera are 1300kg or slightly more, but its defenitely close and often depends if the cars are weighted dry and which trim they have. And there are probably more which i didnt list here.
@@max.racing first three are incredibly limited (as a Gumber,GMA cars, one of which is not even for sale yet), you could go down to one-offs even more; obviuosly I was talking about more regular cars. F40 some versions were repored below, some - above. F50 is well above 1300. 765LT is above 1300 as well. Radical is a racing car, not a supercar, same with KTM. Carrera GT, M3 CSL, Cayman GT4, 488 Pista , Huracan STO can only dream of being sub 1300 kg. Some of them are quarter ton heavier than number you're referring to. You didn't name a single more or less mass produced supercar with sub 1300 kg weight.
When it comes to 20 years old cars, they should give the MC12 a chance. It is literally a street legal race car. Probably the quickest hypercar of its generation. Probably too rare to risk a timed lap on the Nordschleife.
The MC12 got the same Engine as the Ferrari Enzo. But the MC12 had way better Aerodynamic and Ferrari wanted them to detune the Engine. Otherwise the Car would be faster as the Enzo 😂. I never liked the Enzo. Such an ugly Car
Dream on, dude! Nobody would "donate" his car to such a "lap time experiment". It's an Italian car after all, and therefore it wouldn't work anyways... 🤦♂🤦♂🤣🤣 Smart a....es like you are really funny. What do you expect from 20 year old Italian divas??? This is ridiculous! Beside that: No other carmaker can do these things Porsche is doing with even 20 year old Porsches. PORSCHE stands above all "sports carmakers".
this car has the advantage of the weight of the era. power to weight is crazy good. new cars lack that. maybe not in acceleration numbers but you also have to turn the weight and brake it too.
@@HUMC5 Yeah yeah.... blah blah blah... "Doug deMuro blah blah blah". Listen dude: Doug deMuro is an absolute NOBODY for Porsche, when it comes to listen to Porsche owners, who are experiencing Porsche driving dynamics of such fantastically capable old supercars like the Carrera GT. Doug deMuro is just a very annoying and clueless social media clowns for i..iots. A guy who's just owning a Carrera GT accidentally, without knowing at all what this legendary car is really capable. Doug deMuro is an annoying trashtalking mo...on! He's just "dummfrech", like we say in Germany. Which means, he's just dumb and and a cocky boring guy, who really thinks he has something to tell about such legendary cars like the Carrera GT, just because he's owning one of them accidentally. Just listen to Porsche engineers who developed this car, who really know the whole story about this car. And not just to wannabees about "it killed Paul Walker".... Blah blah blah blah... 🤦♂🤦♂ Americans are way too dumb, dude! The USA are a huge shame for civilisation!
Nah they have gotten faster alright, just look at the 911 times compared to the 911 of the same generation as this. But tires and to some degree track changes are big factors indeed.
@@GoldenCroc But those old 911 times would also be set on old tyre technology. Not saying they haven't gotten faster, but tyres are easily the biggest reason.
Tyre Reviews did a test of a new Golf GTI with old tyres vs an old GTI with new tyres. The old car was faster than the new car on the new tyres. It’s on UA-cam. When they put the new car on the new tyres it was significantly faster. By far the most important factor now is the tyres. They were able to make the old car go 3 seconds a lap faster than it previously did on a relatively short track.
4:28 Ah yes, I was hoping he didn't miss that epic helmet scratch right there. That was secretly the most amazing part of the video and of course Misha didn't miss it. Impressive eye Misha.
@@VxO4fame 918 needs another shot because the factory lap back then was done with a car that many don't consider to be a production version. It had old software and fixed aero. Also, since then, a Cup 2 R N0 version was developed in 918's tire size.
I think the reason why the driver didnt push this car to its absolute limit is not that it was so valuable, but rather because its no longer being made. So imo he also had some respect for the car, and didnt want to crash a significant piece of history. Which means with a better suspension setup, and even better Cup 2R tires this would have been very close to the Viper ACR's time.
Fascinating. Very glad they did that run to show the difference modern rubber makes. Wonder when some mad lad is going to let Misha take their Carrera GT for a lap around the ring
That is one of my "win the EuroJackpot" dreams - buy a legendary car (I'm personally leaning towards the Ferrari F50, but the Carrera GT is definitely on the shortlist too), and experience it more unleashed than I'd ever be able to, by having Misha drive it :)
@@mhigham1 for 30% less. the CGT was 450k new. 50% less according for inflation. plus 20 years of technology advancement and the car isn´t even built by Ford.
One big thing to factor in a part from the tyres is that the track has gotten significantly smoother with removed bumps whenever they have been resurfacing (which has happened a lot in recent years) they have unfortunately removed some of the characteristics (call it defects if you are a bit too german;)) of the track. The bottom line is that many sections can be taken at higher speeds without the car being unsettled by uneven surfaces than 20 years ago.
wow! porsche is the goat! still on par 20 years later with modern cars, and yeah i had the same thought! imagine what the 918 could do with different tires/suspension!
It didn't, this was driven by a porsche factory driver who has 20 years experience. The Z06 is 5 seconds quicker than a C7 Z06 on most tracks. Also the GT4RS ran a 7:12 with this same driver
Jörg should change is name from Bergmeister to Ringmeister! :D And now bring the Mclaren F1 !! And other cars.. all the good ones likes Enzo Ferrari, F40, F50, SLR Mclaren, LaFerrari, P1, Huayra, Veyron, Viper ACR, Lexus LFA etc. I mean the list with cars that we all want to see is really long :D
Porsche Carerra GT one of my favourite cars of all time with that screaming V10. Not surprised by the improvement in the lap time as I've heard the original tyres from Michelin for the Carerra GT were basically crap and not up to the job which made the on limit handling very tricky. As Misha says, a sub 7 mins should be possible with uprated dampers.
Sad thing is that the carrera now is much more a piece of art than a sport car, the owners wouldnt even dare to make such a crazy performance upgrade and risking losing the car value.
Imagine if Manthey developed a fully Porsche Tequipment-approved version of the KW V5 suspension. Now picture Roland Bergmeier achieving a sub-7-minute Nürburgring lap with it. What a moment it would be if this announcement came the same day Ford reveals their Mustang GTD’s updated lap time.🤔
@@JROCK50054in terms of performance no, but for sound most definitely yes :) Yamaha knows their musical instruments, and that engine is their musical instrument.
Corvette guys are pissed again😂 they were pissed when the Mustang did sub 7 minute and now the 20 yr old Carrera GT is only two seconds off against their c8 Z06😂😂
funny thing is, they still think the Zr1 will even come close to a GT3RS. They said im trippin when i comented that a 7:00 for the ZR1 will be a stretch
What all 6,413 Z06's owners (USA) bought their cars due to some lap times from one place in Germany that has no real factor in day to day driving. . .🙄 They will be trading them in now because a 20 year old £330k (original price) car 20 year old came close to their cars lap time. S
Same for the 720s… the 245 front is not made for racetracks and it understeers. The 305 rears are okay and I would not put much wider tires on. Speaking about balance front to rear 265 front and the 305 rear would be much better
That car was doing 93 mph, in a 90° corner, in downtown LA. No tyres can save you from being a moron, or being driven by one (Paul Walker was passenger).
And now imagine KW putting a special „race suspension“ in this car, in the combination with the new Michelin tires the car should be even faster by at least a few seconds… ❤❤❤ Any petrolhead who had the pleasure, honor and joy of hearing the Porsche Carrera GT live, should be getting goosebumps by now, I for sure had goosebumps remembering that day ❤❤❤
Would be great to see a bunch of the supercars from the 2000’s and early 2010’s do another ring lap with updated tires and see how fast they are now. I’d honestly love to see the C6 Z06 go again and see how much time it can knock off its original time which was considered a very impressive lap time in the mid 2000’s.
Suspension and Tires make a cars character. Power is just power. Weight distribution is important, but not nearly as much as the rest. Suspension and tires make any car modern.
Watching the onboard, I immediately wondered how the car would fare with a modern suspension, such as the KW product, in terms of handling and lap time. Would be great to see such a follow-up.
I imagine Misha could make a good educated-but-rough estimate at how much of the time improvement is down to track changes. He's mentioned in the past some bumps being smoothed out, resurfacing has been done and so on.
I think its important to note that the original lap time was far from ideal and that the track is a little faster now anyways, the gap between old and new tires isn’t quite as big as these lap times make it seem. Back in 2004 röhrl drove in mediocre weather and on the cars second best tires, im pretty sure porsche wouldnt dare to publish a lap time like that these days.
I agree, there's so many cars that should be re-benchmarked on the Ring with new tires... 20-year-old means nothing other than the lack of aero, suspension, and tires, really, just like Misha pointed out
Spring and shocks that definitely has a sub 7. Maybe KW or Bilstein can do a coil over for "science". Also not sure what the alignment limit of the CGT is but figure a bit more camber if it's under 2.5* maybe more adjustment to help that front end a bit more, but it's so impressive seeing it still "keeping up".
Thanks for the great video Misha. Considering the CGT's reputation for it's ass coming around on itself like grease lighting Misha, this was very impressive! No sure if soft suspension would help mitigate that whiplash ass coming around that few can recover from?
What's good about it? It means that all these records are not because of the cars, but only because of the tires and the asphalt surface. And about hybrids, it's just funny
It's interesting that the suspension was too soft, confirming what James May was saying 20 years ago that manufacturers are too obsessed with Nürburgring times and it comes at a price of bad ride quality.
Speaking about Mission X, it's available in Gran Turismo 7. You can make a video about it, trying the car out there, maybe beat the AMG One irl record.
This car was always a hand full, Jay Leno said the other day that it's one of the nicest but also scariest cars he's driven because of the odd behavior of it sometimes - The Paul Walker accident is one example. (May he R.I.P)
tires for the Ring have long been a serious & successful development effort... the improvements are now more incremental over time. the more significant improvement in improvements is aero... note how much is now ground effects fully integrated in chassis design, & relatively less in large surface appliqués (which increases drag as well as downforce). suspension as a limiting factor is directly linked to integrated aero - therefore a focus for further tuning of ancient high-perf cars like the GT. however, highly chassis-integrated aero is the domain of clean-sheet CFD for clean-sheet designed hyper-cars.
Hohe Acht ? 😊 Nice video Misha. For me that’s the most surprising lap video in comparison to the GTD keeping in mind how old the Carrera GT is. And it’s also a manual by the way. The GTD is very disappointing and even thou it’s a fact the internet is full with fanboys that make fun of Porsche and cry because of the wet track (that we know wasn’t wet… ). Don’t know what they smoke over there😅. Cheers
The GTD is 15 seconds faster.So I get it anything that gets on the track is going to be better than the GTD.But this 20 yr old car is close to the z06.We know you guys on the internet is going to skip all of that to bash the mustang.But I can't wait to the gtd go back to the ring and hurt you guys feelings.
@ no one is roasting the GTD time. I think it’s great! The GTD was slower in any kind of discipline but it’s still great. It was even on the straights way slower even thou is has 300 ho more…. But it’s still an amazing machine. The problem are you the GTD fanboys looking for excuses and still making fun of other cars that GTD beat acting as if the GTD set an all time best lap beating even the GT2 RS MR. It’s also the mentality. People basing Porsche and making fun of the GT3 RS months ago and saying how hard the GTD will destroy it etc. If you shout big tones expect to be roaster if you don’t deliver. If the GTD will come back it’s going to be even more disappointing since the new GT2 RS is going to set a lap time soon that will blow everything away. Absolutely no chance for the GTD. Ford will stay home buddy trust me.
@@Alex-FFM What discipline is you talking about 😂.And who made fun of other cars.Its you guys coming on the internet ready to hate on the car.Oh I guess cause people come on here to defend it y'all call it making fun of other cars.How it's still slower when it hit 301 km.You trying to make a 15 sec gap irrelevant and make it like the gtd was 1 sec faster than a 20 yr old car.It seems like you coming up with all kinds of excuses to discredit the GTD.
There's a lot of time left on the table from the manual gearbox as well, vs the lightning shifting modern gearboxes. And it's just as well, it's never been about Ring laptimes, it's always been about the driving experience.
Es gibt einen optimierten Opel Speedster aus 2001, der konstruktiv auf der 1996er Lotus Elise basiert, und der Eigner hat im Verkehr eine 7:17 Min. hingezaubert. Kann man hier auf YT finden. Das finde ich persönlich noch viel beeindruckender. Ok, der hat dann statt 147 eben 400PS und unter 900kg.
Die Zeit des Speedsters ist sicherlich beeindruckend, aber es handelt sich um eine 7:17 BTG Rundenzeit statt um eine vollständige Runde. Sport Auto muss für die Zeit des Carrera GT's also fast 2 km extra fahren.
Dass es tatsächlich immer noch Leute gibt, die nicht differenzieren können zwischen vollständiger Runde und BTG (und sich dann noch iknowit nennen). Gäääähn.
looking at this, i bet manthey racing could come dangerously close to beating 7 minutes, if they put some of their magic into CGT’s suspension, setting it specifically for nring, and also do some trickery with carbon wheels and aero
I always wondered what the NE Lexus LFA could do with decent tyres. I mean that car did a 7.14 with Bridgestone RE070s which were actually an outdated tyre at the time of the lap also.
@ i did find it there about same time you answered. Thanks! Even though they didn’t quite meet goal of beating the wonderful GT3RS still nice to see a sub 7. Hoping they return in spring with improved car and track/weather conditions. Either way i will be taking advantage of my GTD allocation.
15% off NBR Xmas Sweaters on www.360roadbooks.com/ with Misha24 code!
Just received my merlino wool a few days ago, love it!
It would be amazing to see several "modern" classic cars, like Enzo, F40, XJ220 etc with modern tires doing fast laps!
you forgot the best.....McLaren F1 !
@@dominiquedistefano the worst 911 gt1 and clk gtr is better
Same as older cars that are famous too. I mean if someone is willing to run a time lap on a 1m CGT we can do it with 1/2 mil cars too.
@@edgelord3428 Really, who won the 24h of le Mans in 1995 ?
@@dominiquedistefanothe aforementioned two, won LeMans the same number of times. But really who cares, the F1 has a BMW luxo-barge V12 and is a tad overrated imho
Nice. The Dodge Viper should get another opportunity at sub 7 times.
Everyone free to do it on trackdays..
@@sub7up. It's not that simple lol. I'm pretty sure for the independent 2017 ACR attempt they had to crowd fund $200k for only three days of closed track time, and two of the days landed on bad weather.
@@whiskeyactual.Somebody convince elon it suits his legacy xD
@@j7...Make America sweat again.
Someone call of OG Schaefchen. Could give it a go in his ACR if he fixed the suspension.
I'm just so amazed they did this. Zero gain for the stockholders. Actually a bit of negative PR, when the 2003 car with just (not even ultra grippy) new tires comes dangerously close to the latest and greatest Porsche has to offer. Anyway, props, because that was really amazing to see!
Add.: because you were talking about improvements Misha, imagine this car just with modern brakes.. modern state of the art pads, modern ABS, modern stability control to keep the car planted under all braking scenarios.. that alone will yet again shave off many seconds off the time.
And another addendum: Marc Basseng did the 7:28. And btw. he also complained about the soft damping even back then :P -> ua-cam.com/video/Dzai7PgLinQ/v-deo.html
My understanding was that this was car from a private collection and the event was organized by German car magazine Sport Auto.
This seems related to a recent recall from Porsche. New suspension components and Porsche offers new tires. Maybe to also clean the bad reputation Carrera GT has from the past. The stock tires weren't that good in 2003.
When Paul Walker died the car had 8 year old tires. And they were speeding...
Doug DeMuro has talked about it several times.
ua-cam.com/video/MeOdbkGM6kU/v-deo.html
The way i see it is that porsche is trying to prevent lawsuit by CGT owners by saying "bruh didnt you see the CGT is actually driveable and keep up with modern track-specialized cars? Its just you with your skill issue if you crash"
Track is now faster than 2011. Some sections are wider and the track surface is optimized.
The tyres are still the main factor tho
Shut up dude! The track isn't wider at all "at some sections".
These are just parts of the track, where more safety was much needed. These minimal "changes" did NOTHING to the lap times!
Smart a...es like you are annoying dude!
That movement at the compression was crazy 8:20
Noticed that also, very scary!!
Bottomed out hard i think i could hear it thud even over Misha's voiceover!
Walter Rohrl did 7:32 on the OEM Michelin Pilot Sport tires and with just a true swap to racing slicks (Cup 2R), they shaved off 20 seconds. Just goes to show how huge the difference tires make
if were being fair, the track also slightly changed. kerbs changed, surface changed
Cup 2 N0. Not Cup 2R according to the Sport auto video.
These are not Cup 2R.
@@Xzibitfreek yeah the ring had mutiple sanction repaved so certain section has more grip.
And he drove the 20,832 km lap or not?
9:15 Jörg also said on his instagram account, that he was not pushing 100% because he had to give the car back without any damage.
he said atleast 1 to 2 seconds were left in the tank after the lap.. so a 7:10 and with upgraded suspension a sub 7 could defenitely be possible
just shows why we all love the old supercars and hypercars so much.
often a free reving N/A engine with lots of power and super light body, often under 1300kg.
Des Bedarfs
also shows how much the old cars could threaten the new cars despite having the huge disadvantage of age.
there is barely any supercar below 1300 curb weight.
@@maximborodyuk3773 many cars are under 1300kg. Mclaren F1, Zonda and Huayra, F40, F50, Murray T.50 and T.33, McLaren 765LT, Radical SR8, Gumpert Apollo, multiple Donkervoorts, KTM X-BOW, Lotus Exige's and probabaly many more. .. Carrera GT, M3 CSL, Koenigsegg Jesko and One, Cayman GT4, 488 Pista, Huracán STO, Gallardo Superleggera are 1300kg or slightly more, but its defenitely close and often depends if the cars are weighted dry and which trim they have. And there are probably more which i didnt list here.
@@max.racing first three are incredibly limited (as a Gumber,GMA cars, one of which is not even for sale yet), you could go down to one-offs even more; obviuosly I was talking about more regular cars.
F40 some versions were repored below, some - above. F50 is well above 1300. 765LT is above 1300 as well.
Radical is a racing car, not a supercar, same with KTM.
Carrera GT, M3 CSL, Cayman GT4, 488 Pista , Huracan STO can only dream of being sub 1300 kg. Some of them are quarter ton heavier than number you're referring to.
You didn't name a single more or less mass produced supercar with sub 1300 kg weight.
@@maximborodyuk3773m3 e46 csl went from 7:50 to 7:22 tires and KWs and other basic mods.
And let's not forget that it's a manual, there's always some time lost in the gear changes.
When it comes to 20 years old cars, they should give the MC12 a chance. It is literally a street legal race car. Probably the quickest hypercar of its generation. Probably too rare to risk a timed lap on the Nordschleife.
The MC12 got the same Engine as the Ferrari Enzo. But the MC12 had way better Aerodynamic and Ferrari wanted them to detune the Engine. Otherwise the Car would be faster as the Enzo 😂. I never liked the Enzo. Such an ugly Car
Dream on, dude! Nobody would "donate" his car to such a "lap time experiment". It's an Italian car after all, and therefore it wouldn't work anyways... 🤦♂🤦♂🤣🤣 Smart a....es like you are really funny. What do you expect from 20 year old Italian divas??? This is ridiculous!
Beside that: No other carmaker can do these things Porsche is doing with even 20 year old Porsches. PORSCHE stands above all "sports carmakers".
this car has the advantage of the weight of the era. power to weight is crazy good. new cars lack that. maybe not in acceleration numbers but you also have to turn the weight and brake it too.
EU Regulation wasn't such a twat back then
Doug deMuro likes this video for sure 😊
Yeah. He said a while ago that Porsche would do a lap on the nordscheleife.
@@HUMC5 Yeah yeah.... blah blah blah... "Doug deMuro blah blah blah". Listen dude: Doug deMuro is an absolute NOBODY for Porsche, when it comes to listen to Porsche owners, who are experiencing Porsche driving dynamics of such fantastically capable old supercars like the Carrera GT.
Doug deMuro is just a very annoying and clueless social media clowns for i..iots. A guy who's just owning a Carrera GT accidentally, without knowing at all what this legendary car is really capable.
Doug deMuro is an annoying trashtalking mo...on!
He's just "dummfrech", like we say in Germany. Which means, he's just dumb and and a cocky boring guy, who really thinks he has something to tell about such legendary cars like the Carrera GT, just because he's owning one of them accidentally.
Just listen to Porsche engineers who developed this car, who really know the whole story about this car. And not just to wannabees about "it killed Paul Walker".... Blah blah blah blah... 🤦♂🤦♂
Americans are way too dumb, dude!
The USA are a huge shame for civilisation!
Porsche Approved KW suspension Pack + Cup 2Rs -> 6:54?
possible
is that the like $50k setup that a lot of CGT owners are doing (thinking of Doug Demuro)
@@travis3810 kinda yeah. Although that pack includes a lift function which we dont really need on the Nordschleife. Better save that weight.
Probably.
A lot of the very few 🎉
So cars haven't gotten faster. Instead tyres have gotten stickier
Nah they have gotten faster alright, just look at the 911 times compared to the 911 of the same generation as this. But tires and to some degree track changes are big factors indeed.
Car aero and suspension has improved ALOT! And PDK is very fast!
A "modern Carrera GT" would do 6:50 easily.
@@GoldenCroc But those old 911 times would also be set on old tyre technology.
Not saying they haven't gotten faster, but tyres are easily the biggest reason.
Tyre Reviews did a test of a new Golf GTI with old tyres vs an old GTI with new tyres. The old car was faster than the new car on the new tyres. It’s on UA-cam.
When they put the new car on the new tyres it was significantly faster. By far the most important factor now is the tyres. They were able to make the old car go 3 seconds a lap faster than it previously did on a relatively short track.
@@MD-uu5nt Tyre Reviews is the goat.
4:28 Ah yes, I was hoping he didn't miss that epic helmet scratch right there. That was secretly the most amazing part of the video and of course Misha didn't miss it. Impressive eye Misha.
918 needs another chance
p1 needs another chance
viper needs another chance
cup sport 2 tires alreaey existed 6 years ago
918 is not 6 years ago
@@VxO4fame 918 needs another shot because the factory lap back then was done with a car that many don't consider to be a production version. It had old software and fixed aero. Also, since then, a Cup 2 R N0 version was developed in 918's tire size.
C7 ZR1 needs another chance
If you go down that track then every car from that period and before, "deserves" another chance.
Im impressed, shifting with no TC, all the pressure on you.. amazing drive!
I think the reason why the driver didnt push this car to its absolute limit is not that it was so valuable, but rather because its no longer being made. So imo he also had some respect for the car, and didnt want to crash a significant piece of history. Which means with a better suspension setup, and even better Cup 2R tires this would have been very close to the Viper ACR's time.
Fascinating. Very glad they did that run to show the difference modern rubber makes. Wonder when some mad lad is going to let Misha take their Carrera GT for a lap around the ring
And then he crash’s it 😂😂😂😂
That is one of my "win the EuroJackpot" dreams - buy a legendary car (I'm personally leaning towards the Ferrari F50, but the Carrera GT is definitely on the shortlist too), and experience it more unleashed than I'd ever be able to, by having Misha drive it :)
So next step, Manthey Kit for Carrera GT.
so the conclusion is Mustang GTD is slightly better than a 20yrs old Porsche with modern tyres
For 1/4 the price.
The GTD didn’t have great track conditions. Hopefully they’ll get another chance next year
@@mhigham1 for 30% less. the CGT was 450k new. 50% less according for inflation. plus 20 years of technology advancement and the car isn´t even built by Ford.
@@erraldstyler show me a CGT for that money and I’ll buy it today.
15 seconds is far more than "slightly" lmao
One big thing to factor in a part from the tyres is that the track has gotten significantly smoother with removed bumps whenever they have been resurfacing (which has happened a lot in recent years) they have unfortunately removed some of the characteristics (call it defects if you are a bit too german;)) of the track. The bottom line is that many sections can be taken at higher speeds without the car being unsettled by uneven surfaces than 20 years ago.
wow! porsche is the goat! still on par 20 years later with modern cars, and yeah i had the same thought! imagine what the 918 could do with different tires/suspension!
1 KPH faster than the GTD! I love it!
Now I have to check out this video again, but for the sound!
Its the chassis. A Carrera GT chassis was WAY ahead of its time with its carbon fiber monocoque design.
not really though
They should do this with the Viper ACR and the LFA Nurburgring edition
They would never do that for an american car , they rather sandbag lap times like the Z06 2 weeks ago 😂
Was also thinking of the LFA
Wait, this almost beat the C8 Z06, and it's a 20-year-old manual 😮
It didn't, this was driven by a porsche factory driver who has 20 years experience. The Z06 is 5 seconds quicker than a C7 Z06 on most tracks. Also the GT4RS ran a 7:12 with this same driver
Yes.
@@WindyCity1992 But the GT4 RS was on Cup 2 Rs and has PDK, which makes a lot difference.
Driver factor alone easily amounts to >5 seconds on this track.
Jörg should change is name from Bergmeister to Ringmeister! :D
And now bring the Mclaren F1 !!
And other cars.. all the good ones likes Enzo Ferrari, F40, F50, SLR Mclaren, LaFerrari, P1, Huayra, Veyron,
Viper ACR, Lexus LFA etc. I mean the list with cars that we all want to see is really long :D
All of Mclaren F1 version. But it costs as a state so it would not be pushed to the limit
Imagine people now starting going full video game upgrading mod on classics cars and throw them at the nordschleife..
Bet Porsche can sell an updated suspension pack for 100k lol
If im not mistaken there already is a "porsche approved" KW susp-pack for the C-GT
Porsche Carerra GT one of my favourite cars of all time with that screaming V10. Not surprised by the improvement in the lap time as I've heard the original tyres from Michelin for the Carerra GT were basically crap and not up to the job which made the on limit handling very tricky. As Misha says, a sub 7 mins should be possible with uprated dampers.
what if manthey dicides to make proper upgrade package for this car..just imagine
+918 aswell as you said at the end
Sad thing is that the carrera now is much more a piece of art than a sport car, the owners wouldnt even dare to make such a crazy performance upgrade and risking losing the car value.
But I feel u, it would be awesome to see a carrera with some proper high end upgrades, racing like there is no tomorrow :D
I am now looking into the best tire options currently available . 😂
Imagine if Manthey developed a fully Porsche Tequipment-approved version of the KW V5 suspension. Now picture Roland Bergmeier achieving a sub-7-minute Nürburgring lap with it. What a moment it would be if this announcement came the same day Ford reveals their Mustang GTD’s updated lap time.🤔
Who?🤣
About the sound, nothing can beat it except the LFA V10 in my opinion ;-)
LFA can't beat the CGT
LFA is overrated and its also scum.
@@JROCK50054in terms of performance no, but for sound most definitely yes :)
Yamaha knows their musical instruments, and that engine is their musical instrument.
@rdmz135 Lfa did a Nurburgring lap of 7:14 back then, Carrera gt 7:12 (new tires) Lfa would also do faster time with new tires
@@rdmz135 That exhaust system*
Corvette guys are pissed again😂 they were pissed when the Mustang did sub 7 minute and now the 20 yr old Carrera GT is only two seconds off against their c8 Z06😂😂
funny thing is, they still think the Zr1 will even come close to a GT3RS. They said im trippin when i comented that a 7:00 for the ZR1 will be a stretch
Z06 lap was sandbagged. Misha questioned parts of the lap and some of the driving, himself. Porsches value is protected at the Ring
@@erraldstylerZR1 will be a decent amount faster than the mustang GTD so sub 7 secs is pretty much guaranteed.
Fans of american cars got European cars life rent free in their heads for good reasons.
What all 6,413 Z06's owners (USA) bought their cars due to some lap times from one place in Germany that has no real factor in day to day driving. . .🙄
They will be trading them in now because a 20 year old £330k (original price) car 20 year old came close to their cars lap time.
S
What would P1 do with 265 front and 325/335 rears. P1 having a 245 was insane and they know it
Same for the 720s… the 245 front is not made for racetracks and it understeers. The 305 rears are okay and I would not put much wider tires on. Speaking about balance front to rear 265 front and the 305 rear would be much better
I bet Paul Walker wished he had used those tyres
That car was doing 93 mph, in a 90° corner, in downtown LA. No tyres can save you from being a moron, or being driven by one (Paul Walker was passenger).
@daneelolivaw4323 a contributing reason he crashed was because of the tyres they were over 9 years old and rarely used
@daneelolivaw4323 seriously 😐 😳?! So it was totally a dangerous situation 😳 😮!! I thought the porsche just lost it's control in a direct line 😳 😮!!
R.I.P paul Walker 😢
And now imagine KW putting a special „race suspension“ in this car, in the combination with the new Michelin tires the car should be even faster by at least a few seconds…
❤❤❤
Any petrolhead who had the pleasure, honor and joy of hearing the Porsche Carrera GT live, should be getting goosebumps by now, I for sure had goosebumps remembering that day ❤❤❤
What a brilliant thing for Porsche to do 💪🏻
Would be great to see a bunch of the supercars from the 2000’s and early 2010’s do another ring lap with updated tires and see how fast they are now. I’d honestly love to see the C6 Z06 go again and see how much time it can knock off its original time which was considered a very impressive lap time in the mid 2000’s.
Now Enzo Ferrari your turn
Suspension and Tires make a cars character. Power is just power. Weight distribution is important, but not nearly as much as the rest. Suspension and tires make any car modern.
Thanks for your existing! ;-)
These cars recently had a recall on the suspension… do you know if this car had the recall done? Great review! ❤
Them renewing the track surface over the years probably plays a big part as well, still very impressive!
Would love to see more old dream cars reinvigorated this way! Just imagine seeing (and hearing!) an F50 or a 959 reliving their prime!
The 918 might do a 6.45 with cup2r and a decent setup
This was really exciting! Great move by Porsche.
So normal cup2s? Then theres chunks more time if they went with some of the hot lap tyres that all the records are set with nowdays.
As a motorcycle rider the single greatest improvement in the last 20 years is certainly tyres.
My dream car... Doug is gonna love it
Seeing my childhood dream car hitting 300 km/h on the straight...just lovely :D !! what a beast
We need a lap with misha driving :)
Would be interesting to see what it could do with the KW suspension kit
I knew this car was more capable than the old record, mechanically its still impressive
For a 20 year old car that is impressive. Like you said, better tires, better suspension, and better aero geometry would see that Porsche go sub 7.
So only about 2 seconds slower than the Corvette, that’s genuinely impressive
Ist schon irre was ein paar neue Schuhe bewirken💪 kenn ich sonst nur so bei Frauen😂❤
The real deal widow-maker! It's an under 7 minute car i believe in the right hands.
Cause walter röhrl is the wrong hands lmao
@@givemeajackson @ his current age...yes
Watching the onboard, I immediately wondered how the car would fare with a modern suspension, such as the KW product, in terms of handling and lap time. Would be great to see such a follow-up.
Awesome!
Thank you, Misha!
KW coilovers are a somewhat common upgrade for CGT owners that drive their car. I recon that would send the lap time into the low 7s or possibly sub 7
Vulcan alpha carrera gt when
Very valid test, interesting to see if older models of cars would be as fast OR faster with new tires... Id wager to bet yes or on par.
We need more of these videos
I imagine Misha could make a good educated-but-rough estimate at how much of the time improvement is down to track changes. He's mentioned in the past some bumps being smoothed out, resurfacing has been done and so on.
I think its important to note that the original lap time was far from ideal and that the track is a little faster now anyways, the gap between old and new tires isn’t quite as big as these lap times make it seem. Back in 2004 röhrl drove in mediocre weather and on the cars second best tires, im pretty sure porsche wouldnt dare to publish a lap time like that these days.
So it's safe to assume that modern cars fast lap times are not only because of the cars but also because of the tyre technology.
I agree, there's so many cars that should be re-benchmarked on the Ring with new tires... 20-year-old means nothing other than the lack of aero, suspension, and tires, really, just like Misha pointed out
Spring and shocks that definitely has a sub 7. Maybe KW or Bilstein can do a coil over for "science". Also not sure what the alignment limit of the CGT is but figure a bit more camber if it's under 2.5* maybe more adjustment to help that front end a bit more, but it's so impressive seeing it still "keeping up".
Yeeees I was waiting for this
There are a couple of older cars that would so some serious times on new tires
Do you ever get invitations or reach out to offer your time for lap times?
This reminds me of the guy who replaced his 959 parts with modern Porsche materials and it does 2.5 0-60
Thanks for the great video Misha.
Considering the CGT's reputation for it's ass coming around on itself like grease lighting Misha, this was very impressive!
No sure if soft suspension would help mitigate that whiplash ass coming around that few can recover from?
What's good about it? It means that all these records are not because of the cars, but only because of the tires and the asphalt surface. And about hybrids, it's just funny
I'd be interested in seeing Mclaren Senna do a lap record attempt cause I feel it's incredibly capable on track.
That man got some skills 👏. Well, I'm gathering it's a man by how he can give his helmet a good scratch while breaking a record
Literally amazing analysis!! And carbon discs would help a sub 7. Respect from Scotland 🏴
It's interesting that the suspension was too soft, confirming what James May was saying 20 years ago that manufacturers are too obsessed with Nürburgring times and it comes at a price of bad ride quality.
Doug could not be happier today.
Speaking about Mission X, it's available in Gran Turismo 7. You can make a video about it, trying the car out there, maybe beat the AMG One irl record.
This car was always a hand full, Jay Leno said the other day that it's one of the nicest but also scariest cars he's driven because of the odd behavior of it sometimes - The Paul Walker accident is one example. (May he R.I.P)
man... i wish the carrera gt that paul walker was sitting on had fresh tires too...
All these records are not because of the cars, but only because of the tires. And about hybrids, it's just funny
I'd love for Big Mag to redo his Corvette lap with current tires.
tires for the Ring have long been a serious & successful development effort... the improvements are now more incremental over time. the more significant improvement in improvements is aero... note how much is now ground effects fully integrated in chassis design, & relatively less in large surface appliqués (which increases drag as well as downforce). suspension as a limiting factor is directly linked to integrated aero - therefore a focus for further tuning of ancient high-perf cars like the GT. however, highly chassis-integrated aero is the domain of clean-sheet CFD for clean-sheet designed hyper-cars.
Judging by your impression sounds like the Carrera GT needs some Bilstein intervention😉
I feel like the track has gotten faster and less bumpy since then too.
This shows that most modern cars are mainly carried by tires and dual clutch.
More interesting than any recent lap time
you should tell MR to create a suspension for this, get some GT and try it - I think with suspension alone (and tires) this could go below 7
Hohe Acht ? 😊
Nice video Misha. For me that’s the most surprising lap video in comparison to the GTD keeping in mind how old the Carrera GT is. And it’s also a manual by the way. The GTD is very disappointing and even thou it’s a fact the internet is full with fanboys that make fun of Porsche and cry because of the wet track (that we know wasn’t wet… ). Don’t know what they smoke over there😅.
Cheers
The GTD is 15 seconds faster.So I get it anything that gets on the track is going to be better than the GTD.But this 20 yr old car is close to the z06.We know you guys on the internet is going to skip all of that to bash the mustang.But I can't wait to the gtd go back to the ring and hurt you guys feelings.
@ no one is roasting the GTD time. I think it’s great! The GTD was slower in any kind of discipline but it’s still great. It was even on the straights way slower even thou is has 300 ho more…. But it’s still an amazing machine. The problem are you the GTD fanboys looking for excuses and still making fun of other cars that GTD beat acting as if the GTD set an all time best lap beating even the GT2 RS MR. It’s also the mentality. People basing Porsche and making fun of the GT3 RS months ago and saying how hard the GTD will destroy it etc. If you shout big tones expect to be roaster if you don’t deliver. If the GTD will come back it’s going to be even more disappointing since the new GT2 RS is going to set a lap time soon that will blow everything away. Absolutely no chance for the GTD. Ford will stay home buddy trust me.
@@Alex-FFM What discipline is you talking about 😂.And who made fun of other cars.Its you guys coming on the internet ready to hate on the car.Oh I guess cause people come on here to defend it y'all call it making fun of other cars.How it's still slower when it hit 301 km.You trying to make a 15 sec gap irrelevant and make it like the gtd was 1 sec faster than a 20 yr old car.It seems like you coming up with all kinds of excuses to discredit the GTD.
There's a lot of time left on the table from the manual gearbox as well, vs the lightning shifting modern gearboxes.
And it's just as well, it's never been about Ring laptimes, it's always been about the driving experience.
Tires are by far the best upgrade. Put modern tires on a 70ish hemi cuda and watch the et difference.
Es gibt einen optimierten Opel Speedster aus 2001, der konstruktiv auf der 1996er Lotus Elise basiert, und der Eigner hat im Verkehr eine 7:17 Min. hingezaubert. Kann man hier auf YT finden. Das finde ich persönlich noch viel beeindruckender. Ok, der hat dann statt 147 eben 400PS und unter 900kg.
Die Zeit des Speedsters ist sicherlich beeindruckend, aber es handelt sich um eine 7:17 BTG Rundenzeit statt um eine vollständige Runde. Sport Auto muss für die Zeit des Carrera GT's also fast 2 km extra fahren.
Dass es tatsächlich immer noch Leute gibt, die nicht differenzieren können zwischen vollständiger Runde und BTG (und sich dann noch iknowit nennen). Gäääähn.
kinda wanna see what a CLK-LM is capable of and of course it would be cool to see what the F1 could do aswell.
looking at this, i bet manthey racing could come dangerously close to beating 7 minutes, if they put some of their magic into CGT’s suspension, setting it specifically for nring, and also do some trickery with carbon wheels and aero
I always wondered what the NE Lexus LFA could do with decent tyres.
I mean that car did a 7.14 with Bridgestone RE070s which were actually an outdated tyre at the time of the lap also.
Not finding your breakdown on GTD lap?
It's on the main channel.
@ i did find it there about same time you answered. Thanks!
Even though they didn’t quite meet goal of beating the wonderful GT3RS still nice to see a sub 7. Hoping they return in spring with improved car and track/weather conditions. Either way i will be taking advantage of my GTD allocation.