Why was Marvin Williams drafted ahead of Chris Paul?
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- Опубліковано 5 вер 2024
- Marvin Williams was the 2nd overall pick of the 2005 NBA draft. Chris Paul was the 5th pick. In this video, I take a look at the reasons behind Marvin's high draft selection, even though he never lived up to that hype. Enjoy!
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Everyone still miss Andy’s “how good was X player actually” videos ? I mean I absolutely missed these so much
He stopped making them?
Facts
How good Mike Miller was
Nonstop sports does a lot of them. They’re cool. Andy’s vids are better though.
I already knew what u meant
Marvin Williams came into the NBA as a freak athlete whose overall game still needed as a lot of polish. He had a LOT of room to grow.
The player that Paul George became in Indiana was basically the kind of production that the Hawks envisioned from Williams.
The big problem was that the Hawks had just drafted Josh Childress and Josh Smith which took a LOT of minutes from Williams and didn't allow him to develop.
By the time the smoke cleared Williams had played for a bunch of coaches who all had him play a bunch of roles at a bunch of different positions. Was he a 4? Was he a 2? Is he a 3 and D player? A defensive stopper? Who knows because every season he was asked to do something completely different by another coach in another offensive scheme.
If there is one player whose development was truly hampered by the team he was drafted by it is Marvin Williams. He never seemed to complain and just went out and did what the Hawks asked of him wirh the hopes that it would make him a better player. It didn't and that's a real shame.
this is a really good take
I mean.....You're kind of off in your evaluation here and IMO, we saw the reverse in terms of development with Childress.
They only played 3 seasons together.
In his rookie year he was already playing 6 minutes less than Childress and played more games. Nothing significant but note worthy.
By year two Marvin Williams was playing 2 minutes less and starting over Childress. And of course by year 3 he was the full time starter and getting notably more minutes per game.
During this time they also had one head coach, in fact in Marvin Williams entire tenure with the Hawks, they only had 2.
So nothing you said in your post is accurate at all. The Hawks didnt go through coach after coach, Marvin Williams development was prioritized by the Hawks from day one, and they only played together 3 years.
When it comes to their expectations, i definitely don't think it was something that resembles PG. The PG model would have been... Ron Artest probably. But i don't think thats what they wanted, they seemed to want TMac..
I will say this.............. nothing happened to Marvin Wiliams.
This idea... this.... measurement people use that basically says every lottery pick is actually a superstar franchise player in the NBA, but they are temporarily hindered.
Marvin never gave the impression that he had a wide and diverse skill set or could even develop in that direction. Rather he was actually pretty limited and im betting the expectations was simply him perfecting his abilities coming into the league
But this state of confusion you project onto the Hawks and Marvin's development, didnt happen. He didnt start switching to the 4 until like 8 years into his career. Before then he was a 3 and sometimes came in as a backup 2, as every single 3 in the NBA has or will do.
The only group who were confused was the fans, the fans are the one's who place these often ridiculous expectations on players and then when it does not happen, they feel the player didnt live up to his potential or something went wrong or whatever. No, these expectations are arbitrary, inane, and exist in individuals heads. And if you go back and read scouting reports you will see scouts didnt even project his development in that direction.
@@undergrounddojokeyboardcag701 not reading that essay sadly
@@bobbyloveoblock6580 Okay, if 30 seconds of reading is a bit too much for you ill do a TLDR..... You are wrong with basically everything you said. For demonstrated detail, read above.
The difference is that projects like that are usually taken in the middle of the draft. Paul George was taken with the 10th draft pick and was the back up to Danny Granger. Same with other projects like Kawhi and Giannis. They didn't start either, were drafted 15th and we're backups while learning the game.
Chris Paul, Joe Johnson, Josh Smith vs Lebron's Cavs in a 7 game series would have been so entertaining
Then vs Orlando with Dwight would’ve been a fun matchup too.
Don't forget Al Horford and Jamal Crawford.
Al Horford > Josh Smith
@@Israel-nb7ip they would have been way too good to draft Horford in 2007 if they had drafted Paul in 2005
@@Benjofresh you're probably right though CP3 did have an injury his 2nd yr so, had that happened in ATL too, they'd of definitely been in a position to draft Horford that year.
I mean to be fair , who would’ve thought Marvin Williams would even lasted like 15 years in the league , as a solid bench player to be realistic , everyone thought he would’ve been done like 2018,2019 , but heck I’m still surprised he got drafted a pick high before CP3
Remember the time when there was a debate on who's the better pg between CP3 and Deron Williams? Good times.
D Will was ranked higher a few seasons than CP tho. Of course cp is cp and showed who’s the better player eventually
@@geemoney1982 yup ppl used to put dwill over Paul back in the day
Jerry Sloan would rather have CP3
Marvin would have been best if he landed in San Antonio 1000% would’ve been an all star if not for sure a perennial 6th man award winner.
I agree. San Antonio and of course Greg Popovich knows how to utilize every player and playing him at his best capabilities.
Also, the Spurs would be a better fit because he would have a bigger and steadier role on the team, while in Atlanta as Andy said they were over stacked with talent at his position.
I've watched Marvin Williams solidify into a decent role player over the years until his retirement, but I believe that he would've achieved his full potential had he been drafted by a team that was renowned for good player development. Example: Spurs, Warriors, and Nuggets
Spurs maybe but when he was drafted the warriors and nuggets didn’t have the best player development at the time.
Can I just say that while Marvin Williams never lived up to being a #2 pick, he was still productive & played a lengthy career? I see no reason to shit on the dude.
Andy isn't shitting on him. He had a productive career, but it wasn't worthy of being drafted 2nd overall. That's the truth. Don't confuse speaking facts with hating on someone because they're two different things.
@@chrismathgenius Commented this before I watched.
Yeah definitely, he wasn’t a bust because of a soft mentality or anything like that just was overrated by the hawks scouts
the word bust gets thrown around so often its meaningless now. a busy is a top 5 pick who came in with hype and was so terrible they couldn't even last more than a few years. anyone that plays 10-15 years cant be a bust. they didnt live up to expectations but you cant be a bust and last that long in the league.
Using the number 2 overall pick to get a bench player...that would be very good of a team to do that.
I’m still shocked he got picked high because of his high school ranks also , and he did had the size that the young Atlanta Hawks surely needed during that era
The 2009-2010 hawks was a good team, they finished 53-29 and had mike bibby, joe Johnson, Josh smith, Marvin Williams, Zaza,
Jamal Crawford and Al Horford
I’ve noticed that many teams who pass on one player for another because of size/build concerns end up paying the price down the road.
I know Portland passed on MJ because they had Clyde. Did they do the same thing when they picked Oden over KD?
@@thepiratepenguin_ yes and also they already had Lamarcus Aldridge
Im certain a lot of prospects have failed because of size/ build in the NBA (quick example Jimmer fredete)
@@thepiratepenguin_ nope. Portland just whiffed on that one. They probably felt oden was a better fit with roy and aldridge. But they just flat out messed up. Why pick a center that's already known to have a leg shorter than the other over a cant miss prospect in durant who avg 27pts 11rebs in college. Plus centers were still valued more back then. But it was just a dumb move on their part. That's why if picking in the top 4. I think teams should just go best player before thinking fit or need.
@@michaelconstantinemiranda2352 Oden looked really promising before all of his injuries though can't deny that.
Back again Andy!! It’s that time!! And I really hope CP3 gets that ring this year!! He does it, he contributes to the trophy, and he’s right up there with Curry and Magic!! He was robbed of it a decade ago and hopefully he wipes out everyone in attaining the one thing missing in his legacy!! The defense, the leadership, the shot selection, and now a second superstar will lead him to the promised land!
Cp3 won't get a ring.
@@NixonMayHaveBeenOnToSomething he was close 2 times before and the rockets warriors series would have been his year if he didn’t get injured so we’ll see
I hope so too. Living in AZ since 2010 I’ve adopted the Suns as my hometown team(still a Bulls fan 1st) and that run last year was everything I had hoped the D-Rose Bulls could’ve done(including embarrassing LeBron).
I knew they were gonna be a playoff contender once they got CP3 but didn’t expect a 2-0 lead in The Finals and nearly a 3-0 lead b4 Giannis took over.
This year’s team is even better and addressed all the deficiencies in last year’s depth especially with McGee and Biyombo at C.
Andy videos is the only the only thing that bring nostalgia like early 2000's
Even as a Hawks fan, I hated the Marvin Williams selection…the Hawks already had a million forwards and no legitimate PG at the time…Billy Knight was trying to build the Pistons 2.0 by picking long players instead of players that can actually play
I wish we had took Cp3 as well. Him, Josh Smith, Joe Johnson and Kyle Korver would have been unstoppable. Not to mention Demare Carol's defense.
Still there were two other solid Point Guards drafted with Raymond Felton, as Marvin Willams also UNC, and Derron Williams.
I always had him as a role player when i play 2k because he was a good 3 pt shooter
It was because at the time, the NBA was all about “good guy image” after the Malice in the Palace. CP3 got a lot of bad press for punching Julius Hodges in the nuts. Guarantee if that never happens, CP3 goes 2nd or 3rd.
Before I even watched this that's instantly what I thought of
I totally forgot about that. Yeah that was big deal back then
now we got draymond lmao
As someone who was a student at U of I at the time I’ll never forget the hype of that UNC “Fab 5” and although Felton, May, McCants and J Williams had better college careers the best NBA prospect was Marvin.
Don’t forget that Deron Williams was also drafted ahead of CP3 and despite a solid NBA career himself he’s still not the HOF “Point God” that CP3 is.
As a Hornets/Pelicans fan I still remember draft CP3 I was so damn happy I just knew he was gonna turn us around dude been my favorite player ever since
Andy Hoops Saturday video Let’s get it !!!!! ✌️👏👏👏👏👏👏🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
Great video Andy! This the type of content that makes my noons on Saturday worth waking up for.
Great vid. The thought of CP3 on the Hawks with Joe & JSmoove. Oh yeah, I like that team.
I love basketball documentaries like sb nation alex hoops basketball references and specially andy hoops .i just use my headset, turn off the lights and then you fell asleep in no time.😄
For me the crazy part is at the time was The Heard with Colin saying he would take CP3 with the number 1 pick.
One of the best things to come out of Colin's mouth. It's just that it didn't happen.
he wasn’t just drafted over chris paul. he was drafted over deron williams as well. i wish dwill never got injured. miss the days when cp3 and dwill would go back and forth on which was the better PG.
Fantastic video keep it up your doing amazing job
I’m shocked he got picked that high. The hawks severely regretted the decision to draft a project PF in Marvin while skipping on a top 5 PG in NBA History.
magic, curry, stockton, isaiah thomas, steve nash, kyrie, and oscar robertson all have better resumes
@@thaxtonkeeton3476 kyrie isn’t better
@@trollkenobi6727 these casuals will say any and every name they know just to discredit the point god like he isnt top 5 and not 5
@@afuriousblackman I think he's Top 7
@@trollkenobi6727 that's a fair ranking
He deserved it because of what he contributed to that UNC title team. Look at his NBA career not an All-star, but very good. Not a bust! Was so great in Hawks playoff teams.
So he should have be drafted over cp3 ?? Lmao 🤣 stop it
That was also back at the days when the world of professional basketball value decently sized bigs (forwards and centers) a lot more than guards, which was why Bogut and Williams got a lot of pre-draft hypes. I also heard that Williams was "very polite and well-mannered" when he was drilling and being interviewed by ATL scouts, and first impressions can be deceiving.
the 1st thing that comes to my mind was Cp3 with Joe Johnson and that Hawks team, very sad.
I love Williams so much ❤️
Because of the NCAA Tournament bias. Marvin played on a team that went further, thus he got overrated. Luckily this doesn’t happen as much now. Draft on overall sample size instead of short fluky tournament shit that has little to do with individual player greatness
Same thing happened with Michael Kidd-Gilchrist.
That means nothing
So basically the nba sucks ass at evaluating talent
The 2000's era of nba scouting. Lot of silly draft back then.
@@skywalker2759 Yes. Because NCAA hoops was bigger back then and people overvalued the tournament. Now that NCAA is much less popular and there are more development routes, scouting is forced to being better
The draft is always a huge gamble you never know how players that look like superstars are going to develop,how many of their skills are going to properly translate to the NBA etc
Marvin Williams was my go to guy in nba 2k18🔥
A young, prime Marvin Williams would’ve been excellent in the modern day, positionless NBA. He was a decade too early.
Marvin William's career highlight might be when he gave Rondo the clothesline from hell in the 2008 playoffs
I still dont know why the first top 10 picks have the trend to choose potential without watching the level of maturity of the player they will draft first.
He is a top 10 PG. IMO there is just no way into the top 5 without a ring. CP3, Nash,and Stockton are lumped together as greats that never got any hardware.
First player ever to get 20k pts and 10k assists. Only LeBron after has done this
I remember the Hawks actually needed a PG, but they decided to pick up Speedy Claxton in free agency. Think about that, the Hawks chose Speedy Claxton over Paul.😳
And he barely played.
We want more videos!
Top 10, definitely. He’ll make top 5 if he wins a chip before his career is over
U mean top 10 players or pgs?
For me he needs to be a major contributor to a championship team. If wins a ring coming of the bench ala Gary Payton it doesn't change anything. Everyone on my personal top 5 PGs list was the 1st or 2nd best player on the team. Not bumping Isiah or Oscar off the list for a 40 year old guy playing 18 minutes a game and averaging 8 pts when he finally won a ring.
This is the year with my suns 👌🏼👌🏼
Marvin Williams had a solid Career
HE GOT DRAFTED OVER A HALL OF FAMER
Stfu
I am so confused. Hawks I thought at least looking back needed a guard but take another wing when they had josh smith and I think childress?
They traded for Joe Johnson that same summer too…they also had Al Harrington too🤦🏾♂️
@@KingJaymo2k11 didn’t they trade for Joe Johnson like for so cheap that anyone would make it. But yea that’s 5 forwards on the roster
My favourite UA-cam channel ever🙏🏻
Billy Knight could have built an amazing team in Atlanta in the mid 2000s. Knight was gifted some easy, no-brainer selections at the top of the draft in 2003, 2004, and 2005 that he brutally fumbled.
Drafting and building teams in hindsight is always easy to criticize, but in Atlanta the overwhelming consensus immediately after those draft selections was that he missed, big time.
Andy so underrated
I wondered that too, even at the time. UNC was good, but that 4 star starters, plus Marvin Williams as freshman. Duke was good, but they had Reddick, Williams, and Deng. Wake Forest was good, and all they was Chris Paul, who was a frehsman/sophmore. I remember just watching him and thinking if there was really any better point guard? He was too athletic, too smart, too competitive, he had EVERYTHING going for him. Aside from his height, what could scare off teams? I mean, AI was even shorter, a superstar at the time, AND was drafted 1st overall in his draft. Yea, AI was more athletic, but CP was more everything else, AND STILL EXTREMELY ATHLETIC!
Could you do a video on D-Armstrong?
Another great video Andy..J smooth,,Cool Joe and CP3 would have been deadly..that team for sure makes a finals appearance..only worry would be Smith and Cp3 clashing..I only say that because Smith got the big..starting shooting 3's like crazy and got lazy..talent alone though,,they make a finals..
That draft was CLEARLY FIXED for the choices that were made. Its clear they wanted CP3 in L.A some how some way to boost the clippers up. Marv was a decent player overall and he could have easily helped a contender given the chance.
The fuck you smoking? CP3 was drafted by New Orleans
Marvin Williams hype and upside was crazy at the time. Wing players are always preferred over tiny point guards.
Dude was awesome in fantasy basketball
If Iam not wrong Marvin williams had huge potential. He had the potential to become a 2 way all star, but lack of minutes, wrong position, and injuries fucked up
Marvin is good player, all media and scouts put the huge hype for players also. For me he lived expectations after this video. He did his best and stayed for 15 seasons.
A prime CP3 with a center like Horford and J-Smoove would have been interesting. Between 2005-2011, a legit chance to reach at least one final, but after that, i don't think so. Maybe healthy overall after 2011, they might have been just as strong as those 2013-2014 Pacers.
Especially when considering he could’ve been teammates with Jamal Crawford in 2010-2011, that’s a scary lineup 🤭
To me a team that has CP3, Joe Johnson, Jay smoove, Horford and J crossover as a backup has finals potential 💪🏽
Chris Paul was tagged as 'Point God' at Wake Forest. MW was a UNC one hit wonder.
Man you should totally make a video about if Luka is the modern day Larry bird and how their stats compare. I think if Larry bird came up in this generation he would be just like Luka. His game is a modernized version of Larry’s
Because the Atlanta Spirit group was the worst thing to happen to the hawks. Pau Gasol was traded for the Draft pick that became Josh Smith
andyyyyyyyyy is the goat
I'm going to watch this video because as a lifelong Hawks fan I'm genuinely curious to know how this video is any longer than "Billy Knight was a terrible GM" the end.
I remember CP3 putting Dwight Howard on a poster...he had insane athleticism
I remember Dick Vitale basically saying that Chris Paul was going to be the best player in this draft.
When the Jazz took Deron Williams before Chris Paul I was shocked. Deron was better earlier in their careers. But Chris Paul obviously is the greatest from that draft.
Marvin Williams was like Harrison Barnes to me, Uber athletic just needed the right situation to flourish.
imagine Chris Paul running around with Josh Smith and Josh Childress
That is true. If the hawks took CP instead, i would imagine him lobbing up Josh Smith to the moon, setting up Iso Joe to easy buckets, and maybe later on setting up Kyle Korver to open threes wider than a parking lot.
I'd say he still won't have a chip today, but a few finals appearances and MVP-caliber performances would have cemented him as a legit top 5 PG by now.
It must really disappointing to see a player taken ahead of D-Will and CP3 never panned out but he did lasted the longest and had a strong finish to his career.
Oh early 2000s basketball.
My time lol
Went to high school with Marv. We all thought he was the next Grant Hill with his ball handling, shooting and personality. Nicest dude who respected everyone and didn’t let it all go to his head. I think if the Spurs or Heat drafted him he’d have a different career. Something like a prime Danny Granger. Good dude though
At least Marvin Williams was good in NBA2K. Back in the days when I still played NBA2K MyCareer (2K13-2K17), I hated playing against the team he was in because he would almost always end up the top scorer on that team.
Who knows what dude was like personally or what kind of fire he did or didn't have to make it in the game, but player development might have been a problem too? Look at all the Hawks picks from the 2000s, the only names that stick out that ever played a game for the Hawks are Diaw, Teague, and Horford, and Josh Smith. Teague and Smith had awfully similar careers, kinda topping out around 15ppg and then regressing. But it's fascinating that Diaw and Horford had plenty of success after leaving ATL, and then almost every other pick 1st or 2nd that ever played a game for them was a complete washout? Oh, and then of course they had Josh Childress, who was like "I'd rather go cash these checks in Greece than play for yall".
You can't just draft guys and hope for the best, you gotta have the organization, and coaching, to get the best out of each guy.
I almost hit that that dislike button after the Jeff Teague shade. He was a steady reliable guard. I notice no one throws shade at Mike Conley for his one all star appearance who Teague was similar to for running the team and getting the ball to the all stars .
CP3 my guy but Deron Williams used to give him problems. Could’ve been just as good or even better all time. CP3 in Atlanta woulda been crazy.
Coming into the NBA, I looked at Marvin Williams as the next Scottie Pippen type small forward.
Cp3 legacy would be much more different if he play for the hawks as like what Andy said the east was not as good as the west
thats a great thumbnail andy 🔥
Damn history repeats itself, because we did the same thing with Cam Reddish
I remember one of my high school teammates at the time questioning why all the “experts” are all considering Marvin an elite athlete. His reasoning was that his vertical was only 1 inch higher than Boguts. I tried to explain to him their is more to being an athlete than jumping high such as speed, quickness, balance, change of direction, etc. my teammate turned out to be correct even though his reasoning was garbage.
We need a video about sprewell
7:22 you don’t blame the hawks for taking the risk of Marvin Williams? Then what was the first half of the video? The hawks every reason to take Chris Paul, a young, lengthy, fast team around him, a glaring need at the lead guard position….. idk how they did that. I was 14 losing my shit when they picked a guy who didn’t even start in college. Like wtf!?
His Nba comparison coming out of scouting report was Tmac, but came no where close. lol..
This entire situation is similar to the Raptors 2021 draft, when everybody thought Suggs was the right pick and they chose Barnes instead. Neither, Scottie Barnes nor Marvin Williams, started in college and both where former high school stars drafted based on upside/physical tools. The Raptors also already had OG, Pascal and Powel as starters similar to the 2005 Hawks roster. The Raps gamble, however, is looking like a steal. I wonder if Marvin Williams is one of those "would of been better in this positionless basketball era" type of players?
That thumbnail tho 😂😭
It would be cool if they drafted him to Atlanta
I played against Marvin Williams in High School & he was IMPOSSIBLE to guard or hit the hoop against. I understand he wasn't "CP3" but he ended up to be the longevity player a lot of his draftees couldn't even come close to. Stop the comparison & focus on his intelligence for at the game. Also such a great guy for our community here in kitsap county, WA. I'm sure he stuck around the NBA also cause of his knowledge and experience of the game for the now stars in the NBA
Make a video on why Johnny Flynn and Ricky Rubio were drafted ahead of Steph Curry
As a hawks fan, this never fails to crush me
Andy, can you make a video on Derrick Coleman?
Answer:
Because Atlanta Hawks management is stupid, and shortsighted. ~ Atlanta Hawks fan since 1997
Their new GM has been pretty good, drafted John Collins, traded for Clint Capela and although keeping Luka would’ve been better having Trae isn’t awful.
@@mattmmixes I think both Dallas and Atlanta benefited with that Trae/Luka trade
There was a time when Marvin Williams was considered the top ranked prospect in that 2005 draft. In fact, Milwaukee was considering taking Marvin over Andrew Bogut. ESPN that year also rated Marvin at number 1 pick status. The guy was raw, but if he turns out to be a superstar, then it's worth taking. By the way, Marvin's status and analytical stats was better than Bogut. He even played more than Bogut and gotten more production in the same minutes played. I think it would have been a toss up between the two on who would have been number 1. I think Paul would have been considered if TJ Ford wasn't coming back to the Bucks at that 2005 to 06 season and that dude was a lottery pick for the Bucks two years prior.
Why does Cp3 have anchor arms bruh? 🤔🤣
ANDY I NEED THE INFO ON DEMAR DEROZAN, he is such a good player but his numbers have to show some similarities. I need to know! ANDY PLEASE
Damn cp3 got some big arms in the thumbnail
Why do people ask these questions? Like isn't the draft number placed on how good the player was in college? There's no telling what'll happen in the NBA, they want teams to predict the future?
Hey Andy, can you do Memo Okur video?
CP3 didn’t go #1 pick because of his height. He was clearly the best player to me. Still amazes me Iverson went #1 pick especially in the 90s.
For me at the time Bogut was best prospect. Derron Williams also looked better, and he was actually first years. Fall off was sudden of course then.
@@atsk3281 Deron Williams wasn’t better. CP3 almost won MVP in his 3rd season. He was also All Defense by year 3. He was the landslide ROY too. Deron had every advantage in the early years. The better team,organization, and coach in Utah. Let’s not forget New Orleans had no owner and played its first 2 seasons in OKC because of Katrina. Deron also had the better team in college playing with 3 future pros while CP3 played with none. People love to say Deron just fell off. The fact is, when CP3 went to LA and Deron went to Brooklyn, Deron no longer had every advantage over CP3. The playing field was level now. Deron Williams was a monster, but he wasn’t better than CP3.
They drafted him because of his potential. In lone season in college he's coming of the bench. If a drafted a player with raw potential it's a hit or miss.
But 2nd?
@@dc7993 it happened before. Like Stromile Swift, Shawn Bradley, Darko Milicic and Hasheem Thabeet. Those guys are 2nd picks too.
@@kl2389 true true
Big Marv had it goin on
I know we have the benefit of hindsight here but honestly using athleticism as scouts' biggest criteria is very overrated.
Honestly, I’d take basketball iq over athleticism any day. Everyone in the nba is an above average athlete. However, very few can make the reads the cp3 can.
Honestly, I’d take basketball iq over athleticism any day. Everyone in the nba is an above average athlete. However, very few can make the reads the cp3 can.
Williams used to drop 30 on your head on 2k my player back in the day
Nah nothing about Marvins game said anything to me outside of him being a good outside jump shooter. Paul had it all and was the main reason why Wake did so well. UNC could have did good or even won it all without Marvin.
Reminds me of Patrick Williams getting drafted by the bulls
Had me thinking that was Dwight on the thumbnail with that editing lol