This is the only mod I have on my Prusa, and I had lots of bed adhesion issues before I did the mod, I always printed in a specific spot where I knew the bed was flat.. Now I don't, I can use the complete bed since it is all flat! If you have a new prusa I would say put this mod on since it is very easy to do especially if you do it in the beginning.
I've been meaning to try the nylock mod but I've been lazy as usual. I really appreciate having a nice visual guide like this thanks for the effort Chris!
Chris, thanks for the effort put into the video. As a new Prusa MK3s owner (gift) I appreciate this video. Also, being a retired engineer i was somewhat disappointed at Prusa for (in my opinion) false advertising. The MK3 does not have true auto bed leveling by any stretch of the imagination. Never the less, it is what it is. Having much experience with metric nylon lock nuts I am a little skeptical that they will hold up to the bed temps and not 'go soft' and loosen. I will definitely follow this video but being an engineer I will have to set an 'OK' point on the height readings prior to adjusting or I will chase the elusive '0' all day.
Thanks for watching it. I totally hear that chasing zero problem. ;) I actually did a revisit on this you might be interested in. ua-cam.com/video/OP1xzEKhHDg/v-deo.html
Thank you for another interesting video, Chris. More accurate bed leveling is an issue that I’ve put off for a couple years, but I appreciate your exhaustive efforts and well done production. Kudos to both you and the developers behind these tools.
I was messing with my prusa's mk3s bed leveling last night. I was doing it from 12am all the way through 6am this morning. It REALLY is one of those things that you start chasing after a magical number...lol. And as close as I got the bed to be level I think Chris is right... for the amount of time that is spent doing this, is it really that noticeable? My prints were already nice before, and after they are still nice. *shrugs*
I think the biggest advantage for this mod is if you regularly print large two part models that are glued bed-side to bed-side. The mesh leveling is really good for correcting for a bed warped like at your start and make the first layer a consistent thickness (and therefore a consistent squish). But the situation like I describe will greatly enhance any deviations from a flat plain.
For a creality glass bed clipped to a heated Al plate I flattened the the glass surface with brass shim stock between the two. I used 420 point bed leveling, the maximum the duet controller permits and some trial and error to adjust the brass position. Big improvement but not perfect and with lots of points you can see wheel roundness problems! Cheers Peter
Love ur vids Chris, very logical and comprehensive. The results you got from this mod plainly display the mod isn't worth the trouble. Using the Super Pinda to do all these measurements is all well and good but I have to keep in mind that the firmware gets the same data from the same source, the Super Pinda and can and does handle these small inconsistencies on the bed when setting up the print cycle. Also on my Prusa the screws remain nice and tight and won't drift due to micro vibrations. I'm glad you did this and not me. Saved me a lot of trouble.
Assuming the part does not warp during printing... You will end up with a flatter part. The very floppy test print does not fully show the improvement. I would feel better after doing this even if I can't prove it helped ;) Nicely done!!!
I like your short intro. Other YTers put some dubstep wubwub with a 20 second cheapo animation of their channel name in some 3D equivalent of Word Art on the screen. Brevity is an underappreciated art in this world.
I agree with this. No begging for patreons, subscriptions or likes (which is on some channels almost to the point of harassment "50% didn't subscribe, WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR") is also what I like. If I subscribe, that's because a channel deserves it. Not because I'm told to subscribe.
@@Sebazzz1991 I watched a meme channel with a friend some time ago and the guy did the "x% haven't subscribed yet" thing in every video and with every video, fewer and fewer people were subscribed lmao
In Marlin there's a "z fade" setting. Depending on the value you set it to, prints on uneven bed will give different results. Maybe that's why you didn't see a difference before and after.
What a thorough and brilliantly edited tutorial video, huge thanks for this one mate, ive order the nuts and washers so ill have to wait until they arrive but excited to give this a go!
Nice video, I may consider doing this mod as I have noticed some inconsistencies in bed height on my machine. I am also going to try the 49 point calibration method, that might also help. There was definitely some good info in here, I learned a lot!
When mounting the bed back on, I don't like fiddling with the standoff. So to start I turn all 9 screws the wrong way so I can hear the thread click when it jumps over the thread in the hole. Then I turn all 9 screws in one turn at a time, starting with the center one. As soon as this one is tight on the standoff, all others are at the right height too. Also it is one of the few times where I do like to use the angled Allen keys, because it is easier to do exactly one turn..
I tried the nylock nuts method, and afterward it seemed like every few weeks I'd have to re-adjust due to the bed shifting again. I couldn't keep the printer in a room that was perfect temperature and it was not enclosed, so that may very well be the cause. I found a similar procedure but with silicone (high temp) tubing instead of nuts. Worth a shot... tried everything else.
Well done for measuring the before and after prints, and kind of cool that accuracy hasn't improved.. I guess that means that stock autobed levelling calibration can correct for the bed not being exactly level, and that variance in corners is caused by other things
Heah Chris I just got a Prusa and yes my bed is off. I like adj beds and I have that on all my printers. I wanted to mention an observation. This method we are relying on only the 3mm threads in the alum bed support to keep the bed adjustment. Not sure I like that. I wonder what you think about the method I use for my Tevo Little monsters developed by Tim Fahlbusch. We use thick neoprene washers in place of the stand offs that are stock. We manually get all the bolts as even as we can then probe and do the first layer and get it like we want it by adjusting the bolts. This way we are locking things down by squeezing the washers that will keep a constant pressure not allowing any movement regardless of temp. The washers are high heat so heating them has no ill effect. The method you have shown us could be affected by heating and cooling since the only thing maintaining the adjustment is the 3mm threads in the lower plate. I am not a techie so I ask your opinion. What do you think? You have done this a month or so ago how has it worked out? I guess springs could also be used that would take the place of our neoprene washers.
Interesting, a month in everything is working well, but the ABL really does all the work. THere is a method like this with neoprene tube that people say works even better. I still need to try it.
How about putting 8 spring in there instead of the lock nuts? Also, to test in the end. Print just the first layer and stop. If it doesn't match the desired first layer thickness adjust the nozzle offset and repeat until it does. Done.
I had both this mod and the rubber hose mod. Even though I used nylon washers and nylocks, after a while they came loose anyway. With the rubber hose mod, it can never wobble or come loose and my bed level is always on point now. Would recommend that over this.
As usual a great clip with plenty of detail. I like the idea of the mod, maybe only if I can't get a bigger job level and then I'm thinking I will print a holder for a DTI gauge during adjustment.
Doing that you remove only one variant of the whole machine mechanical variations that impact final print result, the alignment between Z axis and bed and the precision of Hotend while moving along X axis also impact on this result, you experiment shows that all the precision pesuit for this modification is unnecessary to give an visual final result print improvement. Thanks for your time to share!
Hi Chris, thank you very much for the detailed tutorial. Very well explained. ❗🤘👍 You never stop learning. I also think that this is a useful extension. One more suggestion from me, before you fasten the screws, use a thread lock, like Loctite 243. Then these are not so easy to move. And do not change with time. Many Thanks 🤘😉
I appreciate it reduces the unevenness to a point it barely matters anymore but damn, greasing those bed bearings would be a wonderful task when your bed is literally bolted shut to the carriage :/
Cool! This is definitely on my list of things to do eventually! After a while could you give an update on if it's held the bed level consistently over time, print vibration, thermal cycling, etc? I 'm curious how well the friction from just squeezing the PCB will hold, or if a bit of adjustable threadlocker in the carriage threads would help.
This is also my concern. I also wonder what the mesh plot at 100C bed temperature looks like after doing the mod, comparing it to both the 60C and the initial 100C. I also wonder if the SuperPinda will show much of a difference between cold extruder and hot extruder.
high temp silicone tubing is better to use than nylocks. the nylocks will vibrate loose over time and you will have to constantly adjust. with silicone tubing you get added sound dampening on Y and you never have to adjust again.
Any more information on what is involved with that mod vs the nylock mod? Are you cutting 3mm ID silicone tubes to the size of the spacer and using those in place of the spacer?
@@Funkyskull75 Yes and no. Cutting them to the 6mm of the spacer is too short. You want the silicon to press from underneath against the PCB. So the length depends on the hardness of your silicon tube or dampeners.
i think that bed leveling is not a problem on mk3, it's near to perfection without any kind of intervention, in 1 year never touched, never recalibrated, prints always perfect
With the mesh bed level plugin i found that on my prusa i3 mk3s I had to flip the y axis to get front and back to match reality, this was not at all obvious and i was chasing problems in the wrong corner ( right back vs front right) so watch out, test by placing a piece of paper under a corner and check the diagram what changed
HI Chris, could you make a video of how to do this with klipper? I have build a prusa bear and control it with a manta m8p board with cb1 and of course klipper. I am new to klipper.
Mine lost its level after 4 weeks. I didn’t have nylon washers to go between nyloc nuts and ged so was reluctant to tighten them too much . Have now added washers and level ok after 3 months
I had the same worries, but I ran it a long time like this with no issues. Check out the revisit. ua-cam.com/video/OP1xzEKhHDg/v-deo.htmlsi=EZGfuMovamJ0U8zF
@29:09 there is some measuring of the results. And it is called as being inconclusive. Well, how is that possible. Your values worsen for 50% of the measurement. 25%does not change at all. And the improvement gained on the other 25% is probably due to measuring inconstancy or biased measurement. The situation after the bed operation is worse than the situation before. 1.16 stays the same 1,13 becomes 1,12 1,18 becomes 1,19 1,15 becomes 1,18
I have proximity sensor PNP-NO 6v-36v. How can I install this in my BTT SKR V 1.4 board? I have stucked here. Kindly help me out with this issue. I have connected my proximity sensor to the 12v SMPS power supply and signal wire is connected to signal pin of z-min endstops connection of motherhood through 10K resistor. Further I have checked that initially my voltage was 0v and when my sensor sense the metal , it shows 4.8 V. But when I I give command of M119 in pronterface, it shows me status as "TRIGGERED" both the times. I also invert the status in my configuration from false to true but this time sensor shows the status of "OPEN" both the times. Can you please explain me how shall I proceed ? Kindly help me to resolve this issue.
@@ChrisRiley thank you so much it's working properly now. I have used probe pin to connect my signal pin of proximity sensor. You really do a great job. You explains in your video excellent. Keep posting more and more videos.
Remember the days we would just use a piece of paper and screw in only four bolts judged by the resistance on the paper. Worked fine once you got the hang of it. Great video, nice plugins but let's be honest, we've gotten way to nerdy about this.
Great job! I'm glad I discovered your video as I'm going to be doing a bed leveling exercise this weekend! Thanks Chris. Instant subscribe there! Steve C.
The probe does a pretty good job to compensate except in case where the bed is too far out. If it's not level you might start to notice curling especially out on the edges of the bed.
How about the silicone tubing method? Instead of nylock, you use silicone tube, preferably OD-8mm x ID-3mm. I found the tube on Amazon... It sounds easier than using nuts, but it's it as good long term?
@@ChrisRiley I haven't touched my Prusa's, but did replace the springs on my Ender 3 with the silicone tube. BTW - you need 4mm ID. I ended up using a drill and 4mm bit to bore it out. It works nice, except I cut mine a little short. It compresses more than I thought. I'm going to redo it and increase the size by 3-4mm each....
There seems to be a 'bad' interaction between the bed level visualizer and the prusa leveling guide plugin that results in the failure of leveling guide values to update properly. Not sure which plugin is responsible but it is annoying.
I'm trying to print 2 colors on the same layer using one extruder on a Prusa i3mk3s. I don't want my printer to do bed leveling before I start printing the 2nd color. How do I turn bed leveling off for that 2nd color? Thanks for all your great videos!
Thank you! I think the easiest way is to just alter the Gcode manually. Use Prusa slicer to find the spot in the print where you want to switch to the second color, then just type an M600 at that spot and run it. It will stop and ask for the second color.
The ABL is way easier indeed. I have been using it like this for a while now, it seems to be doing great. I run a G80 on every print, on the prusa it takes less than 1 minute to run.
Chris, before the mod did you get inconsistent first layers in the corners ? My MK3S was getting issues with the spacers. I was getting areas with different heights. Great video!
I just purchased a Prusa i3 MK3S+ and are pretty happy with it, but the bed is not that flash as far as being flat, always wonder why companies dont put a thich sheed of alloy on as a bed, my guess is they are trying to keep it light, great printer though
@@ChrisRiley hy Chris, beutiful video. One question. In web visualizer of leveling bed where is a origin x0 y0? Should the screw in the center be tightened?thks
Hey Chris, Ty for the video but you have to do a bit more calibration at the end to see 'perfect' consistency and materially accurate parts. They nylock nut mod is definitely a plus, overall with overall consistency and sticking of the first layers. I also found it really helped getting my Z offset perfect and helped my clone machine just pump out ABS parts. Try calibrating the filament and following that teachingtech calibration web page. I'm getting a difference of about +/- .01 on about all my parts after all that on my original prusa and prusa clone I sourced.
Seems that this doesn't really solve anything that the automated bed leveling wouldnt take care of and the drawback is that now the screws are not tightened against anything so they will likely unscrew a little bit after a couple of shaky prints and you will need to re-do this exercise again ... well done ! ;-) ... no really I'm interested on how persistent is the accuracy after applying this mod if you could elaborate more on that. Thx !
Awesome video Chris. I was thinking about performing this on my Mini+. You mentioned that you were not sure if it would work. Have you been able to confirm or has anyone here performed this mod on the Mini+ and seen a benefit?
@Chris Riley makes sense. I am going to try it but without octoprint, etc. I do not have that setup yet. I am going to use a stainless steel straight edge/ruler to get some good visuals. Quick question , how “tight” did you screw in the center post as you do not remove the spacer?
So the firmware has a limit of difference that it will tolerate. When it goes over the amount it will try to level the gantry again. So you probably have a low/high spot that is a little too far out. Finding it might be a pain. Move the nozzle around on the bed and check it with a piece of paper, see if you can locate it.
Hey Chris, sorry if this is a dumb question. What's the difference with the nylon screws as opposed to just tightening/loosening the bolt on the original setup?
Good job working through this. My only hesitation is that my bed thermistor keeps breaking and I have to completely remove the bed to change it every few months and spending hours readjusting these afterward doesn't seem like a good use of time.
hmm I wonder if there's a python package that can send gcode and eventually read the results back, that would be very cool to be able to do that from notebooks :D
You had me until the very end when your print results were actually significantly worse than they were before the leveling. Did you try rerunning the first layer calibration? It almost looks as if your machine was running off of old numbers for level compensation after you did the mod which is why your measured thicknesses on the test print skewed the way they did. What are your thoughts on this? Seemed like a lot of work and the results were not just inconclusive they were worse and you sorta swept it under the carpet there.
There are so many variable here. This mod is really just trying to take some off the table, like how level the bed is. There are a lot of other things that would have to be tuned in to start seeing better results. The print was just a shot in the dark.
@@ChrisRiley fair enough, a friend of mine did the mod and saw a significant improvement immediately. I'm still on the fence because as of right now my machine prints fine so for me at least it's a case of do I want to mess with it? I probably will because I do like the idea of a level bed with minimal Z height compensation
Very cool! I’ve always wondered if this was worth the hassle. Great video idea! Overall I think your variance is picked up by the mesh leveling right? That’s why you don gain much? The mesh leveling is one of those things Prusa does good anyway
I'm looking to buy another 3d printer. I have a core XY and a large format standard frame(?) already but looking for smaller and good to go out of the box. I'm thinking of getting a Prusa is that still a good choice or would you recommend another?
The print at the end was just a shot in the dark. There would be a lot more tuning involved to get and accurate result. I was just trying this mod to see what happened.
You may have mentioned this, but if anyone is looking to do this without octoprint you can copy and paste your bed leveling values to this website and it will do the match for you: pcboy.github.io/g81_relative/ I also did this mod and found it useful for when a print a plate full of small parts. This was the only way I could get small parts in the corner to consistently stick. The mesh leveling alone just wasn't doing it.
Hi Chris, I did something like that with my Mini. But I left the attachment original and sanded down where the bed was too high and raised it with shims where it was too low.
Hi Chris , thanks for the informative video. I've been having the leveling problem for years on my mk3 that I've stopped trying. My question is if I use a nylon washer will it loose it form cause of the heat from the heatbed & wounding up adjusting the screws more frequent? Would it be better by using a metal/stainless steel washer?
Those washers and nuts should be good up to 220c. I guess there is another method out there now where they use silicone tube? There is a link to it here in the comments.
@@ChrisRiley I think the nylon should be good cause I've mistaken the temp of heatbed from the hotend, even if I print ABS the heatbed is just 90 to 100c so I think the nylon should be fine. My mistake, thanks again.
@@laporpo78 How has your nylon wash held up? Nylon melts at like 220C, but its glass temperature is much lower, some sites say around 55C, meaning it will deform at that temp.
Hi many thanks for all your videos, great support. I have Prusa i3 mk3s . And after each time after approximately 60 cm the layer shift happens and spaghetti filaments starts . Any advice please . Would appreciate any guidance
@@ChrisRiley cool, when my super pinda arrives and I have it on the bench, I might try it again,it was fine for a couple years. I believe did way back when the firmware only did 3x3 probing. Nice that the plug-in looks way better now.
Chris, you can do the same without octoprint for those that dont want to install a raspberry pi, just do G80 and G81 and post relative data to the following URL pcboy.github.io/g81_relative/ then you can read of the results and adjust in the same manner
Having problems with my cr10 v2, running marlin on a 1.4 skr turbo, when my axis move in the right direction my prints are mirrored. If I swap x axis so it goes the wrong way it un mirrors but bed bltouch then tries to level off the bed please help
Why not write in a forum with such a problem, no you use UA-cam comments ... completely out of place. and if someone else also has such a problem ... he will surely not find the solution via a youtube comment but in a forum which is searched by search engines. sorry but I don't understand.
@@darkness1943 I have posted in forums and also here which is for comments is it not u tool Chris or anyone who watches this channel could of ran into this problem at some point so could point me in the right direction stop shooting people down keyboard warrior
@@ChrisRiley thanks for the reply I know your busy, I built the machine from scratch after watching your channel excellent work buddy. my y axis does move when I move the y axis in marlin the x axis is set to move left - right + then y is to the back + to the front - then the blt will level the bed ok but my prints are mirrored, if I reverse x axis my prints are correct but my bltouch will do 4 points then the 5th it will come off the bed. Again great videos keep up the excellent work
Wow, another one of my OctoPrint plugins (Bed Level Visualizer) featured in a Chris's Basement video. Thanks for the shout out.
You do great work Jim, much appreciated.
Ah so you're the guy behind these awesome plugins. You're a hero!
@@emielv7677 Thanks, I've done a few...lol. plugins.octoprint.org/by_author/#jneilliii
THANK YOU JIM!!!
Sweet mod, but the biggest revelation for me was holding the button on the printer for 2 seconds to go straight to Z-Adjust. #mindblown
Ha! Glad I could help!
HA! Me too!!
This is the only mod I have on my Prusa, and I had lots of bed adhesion issues before I did the mod, I always printed in a specific spot where I knew the bed was flat.. Now I don't, I can use the complete bed since it is all flat! If you have a new prusa I would say put this mod on since it is very easy to do especially if you do it in the beginning.
Nice, great to hear it works for you.
I've been meaning to try the nylock mod but I've been lazy as usual. I really appreciate having a nice visual guide like this thanks for the effort Chris!
Glad I could help!
Chris, thanks for the effort put into the video. As a new Prusa MK3s owner (gift) I appreciate this video. Also, being a retired engineer i was somewhat disappointed at Prusa for (in my opinion) false advertising. The MK3 does not have true auto bed leveling by any stretch of the imagination. Never the less, it is what it is. Having much experience with metric nylon lock nuts I am a little skeptical that they will hold up to the bed temps and not 'go soft' and loosen. I will definitely follow this video but being an engineer I will have to set an 'OK' point on the height readings prior to adjusting or I will chase the elusive '0' all day.
Thanks for watching it. I totally hear that chasing zero problem. ;) I actually did a revisit on this you might be interested in. ua-cam.com/video/OP1xzEKhHDg/v-deo.html
Thank you for another interesting video, Chris. More accurate bed leveling is an issue that I’ve put off for a couple years, but I appreciate your exhaustive efforts and well done production. Kudos to both you and the developers behind these tools.
Great to hear, thanks for watching.
Incredibly useful for users like me that print very critically size parts
I thought it might make the larger ones a little easier.
I have been using it on my two MK3S machines and prints are significantly better than before. Good job !
Thanks again! :)
I can imagine this took you the whole day. Calibration is just one of those things. Now to check with a dial gauge :P
lol, there ya go!
I was messing with my prusa's mk3s bed leveling last night. I was doing it from 12am all the way through 6am this morning. It REALLY is one of those things that you start chasing after a magical number...lol. And as close as I got the bed to be level I think Chris is right... for the amount of time that is spent doing this, is it really that noticeable? My prints were already nice before, and after they are still nice. *shrugs*
@@NewShockerGuy I totally get it, it was fun to try, but, meh.
I think the biggest advantage for this mod is if you regularly print large two part models that are glued bed-side to bed-side. The mesh leveling is really good for correcting for a bed warped like at your start and make the first layer a consistent thickness (and therefore a consistent squish). But the situation like I describe will greatly enhance any deviations from a flat plain.
Well said, agreed!
For a creality glass bed clipped to a heated Al plate I flattened the the glass surface with brass shim stock between the two. I used 420 point bed leveling, the maximum the duet controller permits and some trial and error to adjust the brass position. Big improvement but not perfect and with lots of points you can see wheel roundness problems!
Cheers Peter
Nice, sounds like you did a lot of good work here.
Love ur vids Chris, very logical and comprehensive.
The results you got from this mod plainly display the mod isn't worth the trouble. Using the Super Pinda to do all these measurements is all well and good but I have to keep in mind that the firmware gets the same data from the same source, the Super Pinda and can and does handle these small inconsistencies on the bed when setting up the print cycle. Also on my Prusa the screws remain nice and tight and won't drift due to micro vibrations.
I'm glad you did this and not me. Saved me a lot of trouble.
Thanks for watching!
Just got my first 3D Printer, and it's the MK3. So happy i found your channel!
Yay! Enjoy your printer.
So this is the best video of this mod that I've seen before, you've earned the sub today good sir
Thank you! Welcome aboard!
Assuming the part does not warp during printing... You will end up with a flatter part. The very floppy test print does not fully show the improvement. I would feel better after doing this even if I can't prove it helped ;) Nicely done!!!
It was a shot in the Dark. ;)
Great video. Now for the hard part, waiting for parts to arrive.
It's the worst! Thanks!
I like your short intro. Other YTers put some dubstep wubwub with a 20 second cheapo animation of their channel name in some 3D equivalent of Word Art on the screen. Brevity is an underappreciated art in this world.
I agree with this. No begging for patreons, subscriptions or likes (which is on some channels almost to the point of harassment "50% didn't subscribe, WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR") is also what I like. If I subscribe, that's because a channel deserves it. Not because I'm told to subscribe.
@@Sebazzz1991 I watched a meme channel with a friend some time ago and the guy did the "x% haven't subscribed yet" thing in every video and with every video, fewer and fewer people were subscribed lmao
I appreciate everybody that subscribes to my channel, but I try not to be too pushy about it. I'm here for the community.
Thanks!
"Brevity is an underappreciated art in this world."
Truer words have not been spoken in a very long time.
In Marlin there's a "z fade" setting. Depending on the value you set it to, prints on uneven bed will give different results. Maybe that's why you didn't see a difference before and after.
My thoughts exactly
It was a shot in the dark really, there would so much to tune to get this right, it was more on a "Why not..."
What a thorough and brilliantly edited tutorial video, huge thanks for this one mate, ive order the nuts and washers so ill have to wait until they arrive but excited to give this a go!
Cool, thanks for watching
Nice video, I may consider doing this mod as I have noticed some inconsistencies in bed height on my machine. I am also going to try the 49 point calibration method, that might also help. There was definitely some good info in here, I learned a lot!
Thanks! There is a different method using silicone spacers, you might looking that as well.
When mounting the bed back on, I don't like fiddling with the standoff. So to start I turn all 9 screws the wrong way so I can hear the thread click when it jumps over the thread in the hole. Then I turn all 9 screws in one turn at a time, starting with the center one. As soon as this one is tight on the standoff, all others are at the right height too. Also it is one of the few times where I do like to use the angled Allen keys, because it is easier to do exactly one turn..
Great tips.
I tried the nylock nuts method, and afterward it seemed like every few weeks I'd have to re-adjust due to the bed shifting again. I couldn't keep the printer in a room that was perfect temperature and it was not enclosed, so that may very well be the cause. I found a similar procedure but with silicone (high temp) tubing instead of nuts. Worth a shot... tried everything else.
Cool, let us know how it goes!
@joshua R Did the silicone tube work better?
Well done for measuring the before and after prints, and kind of cool that accuracy hasn't improved.. I guess that means that stock autobed levelling calibration can correct for the bed not being exactly level, and that variance in corners is caused by other things
That's what I was thinking by doing this, ABL does a pretty good job all around.
I think so too, so I do not see a need to apply this mod.
Heah Chris I just got a Prusa and yes my bed is off. I like adj beds and I have that on all my printers. I wanted to mention an observation. This method we are relying on only the 3mm threads in the alum bed support to keep the bed adjustment. Not sure I like that. I wonder what you think about the method I use for my Tevo Little monsters developed by Tim Fahlbusch. We use thick neoprene washers in place of the stand offs that are stock. We manually get all the bolts as even as we can then probe and do the first layer and get it like we want it by adjusting the bolts. This way we are locking things down by squeezing the washers that will keep a constant pressure not allowing any movement regardless of temp. The washers are high heat so heating them has no ill effect. The method you have shown us could be affected by heating and cooling since the only thing maintaining the adjustment is the 3mm threads in the lower plate. I am not a techie so I ask your opinion. What do you think? You have done this a month or so ago how has it worked out? I guess springs could also be used that would take the place of our neoprene washers.
Interesting, a month in everything is working well, but the ABL really does all the work. THere is a method like this with neoprene tube that people say works even better. I still need to try it.
How about putting 8 spring in there instead of the lock nuts? Also, to test in the end. Print just the first layer and stop. If it doesn't match the desired first layer thickness adjust the nozzle offset and repeat until it does. Done.
Springs would work if the wire was thick enough.
I had both this mod and the rubber hose mod. Even though I used nylon washers and nylocks, after a while they came loose anyway. With the rubber hose mod, it can never wobble or come loose and my bed level is always on point now. Would recommend that over this.
Thanks for the tip!
I’m using pronterface, and when I enter “G81” it says “echo:Unknow command: “G81” please help
DO you have Prusa firmware? G81 only works on Prusa.
As usual a great clip with plenty of detail.
I like the idea of the mod, maybe only if I can't get a bigger job level and then I'm thinking I will print a holder for a DTI gauge during adjustment.
That's a good idea!
Doing that you remove only one variant of the whole machine mechanical variations that impact final print result, the alignment between Z axis and bed and the precision of Hotend while moving along X axis also impact on this result, you experiment shows that all the precision pesuit for this modification is unnecessary to give an visual final result print improvement. Thanks for your time to share!
Agreed, it was a shot in the dark on the test print. There is a lot of other stuff we would have to tweak.
That 3mm washer makes so much more sense...I probably should revisit this.
🙂
Hi Chris, thank you very much for the detailed tutorial.
Very well explained. ❗🤘👍
You never stop learning.
I also think that this is a useful extension.
One more suggestion from me, before you fasten the screws, use a thread lock, like Loctite 243. Then these are not so easy to move. And do not change with time.
Many Thanks 🤘😉
Thanks!
Great review Chris, I have done this mod to all three of my BEAR printers. Next is the Prusa MK3S.
Cool 👍 Let me know how it goes.
I appreciate it reduces the unevenness to a point it barely matters anymore but damn, greasing those bed bearings would be a wonderful task when your bed is literally bolted shut to the carriage :/
Not sure it's the right fix really, but interesting enough that I wanted to try it.
Great Video, just installed the mod to my mk3+. Works great.
Great, thanks for watching
Cool! This is definitely on my list of things to do eventually!
After a while could you give an update on if it's held the bed level consistently over time, print vibration, thermal cycling, etc? I 'm curious how well the friction from just squeezing the PCB will hold, or if a bit of adjustable threadlocker in the carriage threads would help.
This is also my concern. I also wonder what the mesh plot at 100C bed temperature looks like after doing the mod, comparing it to both the 60C and the initial 100C. I also wonder if the SuperPinda will show much of a difference between cold extruder and hot extruder.
I will try it out for a while and report back.
@@ChrisRiley Cool! Not trying to ask more work of you though. Just if you were going to use this printer for future work and noticed how it holds up!
Thanks, very informative and easy to follow
You are welcome!
high temp silicone tubing is better to use than nylocks. the nylocks will vibrate loose over time and you will have to constantly adjust. with silicone tubing you get added sound dampening on Y and you never have to adjust again.
Any more information on what is involved with that mod vs the nylock mod? Are you cutting 3mm ID silicone tubes to the size of the spacer and using those in place of the spacer?
@@Funkyskull75 Yes and no. Cutting them to the 6mm of the spacer is too short. You want the silicon to press from underneath against the PCB. So the length depends on the hardness of your silicon tube or dampeners.
Instructions? Video? Instructional Video?
Yes, I would like to see how this is done.
i think that bed leveling is not a problem on mk3, it's near to perfection without any kind of intervention, in 1 year never touched, never recalibrated, prints always perfect
Kind of where I stand. This is looking to fix a problem that really doesn't exist...
I just thought it was interesting, I really don't have any issues either.
With the mesh bed level plugin i found that on my prusa i3 mk3s I had to flip the y axis to get front and back to match reality, this was not at all obvious and i was chasing problems in the wrong corner ( right back vs front right) so watch out, test by placing a piece of paper under a corner and check the diagram what changed
Interesting, I will have to try that.
kind of interesting. Here's a cool mod! The results didn't change, but it's cool! :D But seriously, it is interesting and I may consider it.
Thanks!
HI Chris, could you make a video of how to do this with klipper?
I have build a prusa bear and control it with a manta m8p board with cb1 and of course klipper. I am new to klipper.
I'll look into it. Thanks for the idea!
Nice video, I heard that over time the unlock mod looses the level, would you mind doing a follow up video in the future?
that is not true. mine is holding since 1 year.
Mine lost its level after 4 weeks. I didn’t have nylon washers to go between nyloc nuts and ged so was reluctant to tighten them too much . Have now added washers and level ok after 3 months
We will see how it goes and I will report back.
@@ChrisRiley I am really astonished you have not done that mod before.
With the bed heating and cooling how would you accomodate the issue with the screws loosening especially with bed vibrations.
I had the same worries, but I ran it a long time like this with no issues. Check out the revisit. ua-cam.com/video/OP1xzEKhHDg/v-deo.htmlsi=EZGfuMovamJ0U8zF
@29:09 there is some measuring of the results. And it is called as being inconclusive. Well, how is that possible. Your values worsen for 50% of the measurement. 25%does not change at all. And the improvement gained on the other 25% is probably due to measuring inconstancy or biased measurement. The situation after the bed operation is worse than the situation before.
1.16 stays the same
1,13 becomes 1,12
1,18 becomes 1,19
1,15 becomes 1,18
Thanks for your insight
Why do this? Why doesn't the printer take these errors into account when measuring them with the PINDA sensor?
I was more of a test of the process basically, they PINDA does a fine job by itself.
@@ChrisRiley What value is the printer able to automatically align?
I have proximity sensor PNP-NO 6v-36v. How can I install this in my BTT SKR V 1.4 board?
I have stucked here. Kindly help me out with this issue.
I have connected my proximity sensor to the 12v SMPS power supply and signal wire is connected to signal pin of z-min endstops connection of motherhood through 10K resistor.
Further I have checked that initially my voltage was 0v and when my sensor sense the metal , it shows 4.8 V. But when I I give command of M119 in pronterface, it shows me status as "TRIGGERED" both the times. I also invert the status in my configuration from false to true but this time sensor shows the status of "OPEN" both the times.
Can you please explain me how shall I proceed ? Kindly help me to resolve this issue.
What pin do you have it plugged into?
@@ChrisRiley thank you so much it's working properly now. I have used probe pin to connect my signal pin of proximity sensor. You really do a great job. You explains in your video excellent. Keep posting more and more videos.
Fantastic Video! Great tutorial
Thanks!
Remember the days we would just use a piece of paper and screw in only four bolts judged by the resistance on the paper. Worked fine once you got the hang of it.
Great video, nice plugins but let's be honest, we've gotten way to nerdy about this.
What!? Never! :)
Great job! I'm glad I discovered your video as I'm going to be doing a bed leveling exercise this weekend!
Thanks Chris.
Instant subscribe there!
Steve C.
Thanks! Stay tuned, we got a Revisit coming later this month!
Thanks for the vid Chris. Keep it going!
Thanks, will do!
Great video, would something like this be possible on Creality printers? They have the thumb wheels, but could it be fine tuned?
Hey Dave, not sure how well it would work with just 3 points.
Hi chris, I levelled my bed once (after assembling). What are the consequences of a unlevel bed? My prints come out ok ... (i think) ...
The probe does a pretty good job to compensate except in case where the bed is too far out. If it's not level you might start to notice curling especially out on the edges of the bed.
How about the silicone tubing method? Instead of nylock, you use silicone tube, preferably OD-8mm x ID-3mm. I found the tube on Amazon... It sounds easier than using nuts, but it's it as good long term?
Others have mentioned this. I might give it a try.
@@ChrisRiley I haven't touched my Prusa's, but did replace the springs on my Ender 3 with the silicone tube. BTW - you need 4mm ID. I ended up using a drill and 4mm bit to bore it out. It works nice, except I cut mine a little short. It compresses more than I thought. I'm going to redo it and increase the size by 3-4mm each....
There seems to be a 'bad' interaction between the bed level visualizer and the prusa leveling guide plugin that results in the failure of leveling guide values to update properly. Not sure which plugin is responsible but it is annoying.
Oh, interesting, I will have to look at that.
great video as usual chris
Thanks 👍
I'm trying to print 2 colors on the same layer using one extruder on a Prusa i3mk3s. I don't want my printer to do bed leveling before I start printing the 2nd color. How do I turn bed leveling off for that 2nd color?
Thanks for all your great videos!
Thank you! I think the easiest way is to just alter the Gcode manually. Use Prusa slicer to find the spot in the print where you want to switch to the second color, then just type an M600 at that spot and run it. It will stop and ask for the second color.
Thanks Chris. I'll give it a try.
Manual bed leveling seems to be much easier. 😈
What about the long time experience? How often do you do the leveling procedure?
The ABL is way easier indeed. I have been using it like this for a while now, it seems to be doing great. I run a G80 on every print, on the prusa it takes less than 1 minute to run.
Chris, before the mod did you get inconsistent first layers in the corners ? My MK3S was getting issues with the spacers. I was getting areas with different heights. Great video!
Honestly, I have never had any issues with any of my Prusas, but I thought it was an interesting mod worth a look.
I just purchased a Prusa i3 MK3S+ and are pretty happy with it, but the bed is not that flash as far as being flat, always wonder why companies dont put a thich sheed of alloy on as a bed, my guess is they are trying to keep it light, great printer though
Thanks for your insight!
@@ChrisRiley hy Chris, beutiful video. One question. In web visualizer of leveling bed where is a origin x0 y0? Should the screw in the center be tightened?thks
@@cadex2 Front left is 0 0 , just snug the center one up, no need to make it super tight.
Hey Chris,
Ty for the video but you have to do a bit more calibration at the end to see 'perfect' consistency and materially accurate parts. They nylock nut mod is definitely a plus, overall with overall consistency and sticking of the first layers. I also found it really helped getting my Z offset perfect and helped my clone machine just pump out ABS parts.
Try calibrating the filament and following that teachingtech calibration web page. I'm getting a difference of about +/- .01 on about all my parts after all that on my original prusa and prusa clone I sourced.
I was just taking a shot in the dark to see if things changed at all.
Seems that this doesn't really solve anything that the automated bed leveling wouldnt take care of and the drawback is that now the screws are not tightened against anything so they will likely unscrew a little bit after a couple of shaky prints and you will need to re-do this exercise again ... well done ! ;-) ... no really I'm interested on how persistent is the accuracy after applying this mod if you could elaborate more on that. Thx !
Yeah, we will see how it goes, I will report back on it.
Your nylon washer affiliate link lands on the M2.5 option choice. Not sure if you can alter it to the M3 option. Thanks for the video.
Thank you
Excellent video. Really appreciated. May I ask the source of the spool holder you're using near the end of the video?
www.thingiverse.com/thing:2910508
Awesome video Chris. I was thinking about performing this on my Mini+. You mentioned that you were not sure if it would work. Have you been able to confirm or has anyone here performed this mod on the Mini+ and seen a benefit?
Thanks! I haven't done it on the mini yet, haven't heard anyone that has. Still not sure if the bed would be big enough to see a difference.
@Chris Riley makes sense. I am going to try it but without octoprint, etc. I do not have that setup yet. I am going to use a stainless steel straight edge/ruler to get some good visuals. Quick question , how “tight” did you screw in the center post as you do not remove the spacer?
@@TPA_JW Just sung it up, pretty much tight as stock.
has anyone experienced an error of "some problems encountered z-leveling enforce" using Prusa Leveling Guide
So the firmware has a limit of difference that it will tolerate. When it goes over the amount it will try to level the gantry again. So you probably have a low/high spot that is a little too far out. Finding it might be a pain. Move the nozzle around on the bed and check it with a piece of paper, see if you can locate it.
@@ChrisRiley Thanks Chris and your videos!!!
Why need to buy washers if you can print them?
This is true!
Hey Chris, sorry if this is a dumb question. What's the difference with the nylon screws as opposed to just tightening/loosening the bolt on the original setup?
The nut keeps the bolt sung against the bed. WIthout it, the screw might fall out.
6:28 How do you get the mesh data without using octoprint?
Oh. It’s at 9:40
🙂👍
This also comes down to the repeatability of the probe as well
Agreed, very much so.
Good job working through this. My only hesitation is that my bed thermistor keeps breaking and I have to completely remove the bed to change it every few months and spending hours readjusting these afterward doesn't seem like a good use of time.
No, that would not be a good time at all!
All great. But, now you have loose screws, right?
so use thread lock like loctite 243...
They are not tight, but I wonder how much it will matter. Still working with it to see how it changes over time.
hmm I wonder if there's a python package that can send gcode and eventually read the results back, that would be very cool to be able to do that from notebooks :D
I'm sure there is a programmer out there that could tackle that one.
You had me until the very end when your print results were actually significantly worse than they were before the leveling. Did you try rerunning the first layer calibration? It almost looks as if your machine was running off of old numbers for level compensation after you did the mod which is why your measured thicknesses on the test print skewed the way they did. What are your thoughts on this? Seemed like a lot of work and the results were not just inconclusive they were worse and you sorta swept it under the carpet there.
There are so many variable here. This mod is really just trying to take some off the table, like how level the bed is. There are a lot of other things that would have to be tuned in to start seeing better results. The print was just a shot in the dark.
@@ChrisRiley fair enough, a friend of mine did the mod and saw a significant improvement immediately. I'm still on the fence because as of right now my machine prints fine so for me at least it's a case of do I want to mess with it? I probably will because I do like the idea of a level bed with minimal Z height compensation
My favourite part of the video was the last minute where we found out it made absolutely no difference to the print.
It happens.
Nice one! Thanks Chris.
Thank you!
Very cool! I’ve always wondered if this was worth the hassle. Great video idea! Overall I think your variance is picked up by the mesh leveling right? That’s why you don gain much? The mesh leveling is one of those things Prusa does good anyway
Thanks Stephen, yes, there are so many variables here, but kind of an interesting hack to rule some variables out.
Chris, does the Prusa use the cal offset numbers during printing?
It uses the bed mesh to make adjustments during the print.
I'm looking to buy another 3d printer. I have a core XY and a large format standard frame(?) already but looking for smaller and good to go out of the box. I'm thinking of getting a Prusa is that still a good choice or would you recommend another?
The Prusa MK3 is still my go to, the mini is very good as well.
@@ChrisRiley Thank you, I went ahead and and bought the MK3S should ship in about 4 weeks.
Chris, Man thank you! this was a great video. I bought you some coffee. :)
Wow! Thanks, I appreciate it!
Nice! I just did this plug-in a few days ago. It’s really helpful. Where did you get the 3mm nylon washer?
www.amazon.com/Quantity-Self-...
@@ChrisRiley How well are these holding up when you heat the bed to 100C for say abs or other high temps?
@@marcusone1 Funny you ask, I was just doing a full bed print on it the other day at 110c, not issues so far.
You say it's a success but in the end results you can't measure any discernable improvement to the print? So how is this worth doing?
The print at the end was just a shot in the dark. There would be a lot more tuning involved to get and accurate result. I was just trying this mod to see what happened.
You may have mentioned this, but if anyone is looking to do this without octoprint you can copy and paste your bed leveling values to this website and it will do the match for you: pcboy.github.io/g81_relative/
I also did this mod and found it useful for when a print a plate full of small parts. This was the only way I could get small parts in the corner to consistently stick. The mesh leveling alone just wasn't doing it.
👍🙂
Hi Chris, I did something like that with my Mini. But I left the attachment original and sanded down where the bed was too high and raised it with shims where it was too low.
Clever! Thanks
Broooo nahh
Would it not be better to just shim it rather than the nyloc nuts
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Hi Chris , thanks for the informative video. I've been having the leveling problem for years on my mk3 that I've stopped trying. My question is if I use a nylon washer will it loose it form cause of the heat from the heatbed & wounding up adjusting the screws more frequent? Would it be better by using a metal/stainless steel washer?
Those washers and nuts should be good up to 220c. I guess there is another method out there now where they use silicone tube? There is a link to it here in the comments.
@@ChrisRileyOk, I always print using ASA / ABS around 240 to 255c, will look into the silicone tube technique. Thanks for the update.
@@ChrisRiley I think the nylon should be good cause I've mistaken the temp of heatbed from the hotend, even if I print ABS the heatbed is just 90 to 100c so I think the nylon should be fine. My mistake, thanks again.
@@laporpo78 How has your nylon wash held up? Nylon melts at like 220C, but its glass temperature is much lower, some sites say around 55C, meaning it will deform at that temp.
On my prusa mk3s+ its M3 not M4 Nylock nuts.
Thanks
Hi many thanks for all your videos, great support. I have Prusa i3 mk3s . And after each time after approximately 60 cm the layer shift happens and spaghetti filaments starts . Any advice please . Would appreciate any guidance
Can you tell which which motor is skipping.
@@ChrisRiley I think it is x motor.
Should I change the motor ?
@@gauravmathur4940 I would contact support and see what they say.
@@ChrisRiley thanks again will do as suggested
I guess the results would be more stable by using silicon spacers instead of nyloc nuts.
Maybe, let us know. :)
Is this also possible for ender 3 v2?
I'm not sure how well it would work with only 4 points.
@@ChrisRiley thank you for the answer.
this going to sound dumb but how is the printer connected to your laptop to run the test
USB type B from the 3d printer to USB type A to the Raspberry Pi. Raspberry Pi to the laptop/com through wifi/network
🙂👍
That was an easy and fun mod.
Great!
lmao it is January 2021 and you think this is a new modification? I've already done similar on 2 of my Minis and my MK3s.
Did I say it was new?
seems like an awful lot of work for diminishing returns.
It is a lot of work, but the result was somewhat interesting.
good stuff 👍
Thanks 👍
How can you not watch a video titled "Hack your Prusa"?!
LOL
Hmm I just un did this on my MK3s.
Of course I did it a couple years ago, and I didn’t have a video to reference, so I probably messed it up.
I will run with it a while and see how it goes.
@@ChrisRiley cool, when my super pinda arrives and I have it on the bench, I might try it again,it was fine for a couple years. I believe did way back when the firmware only did 3x3 probing. Nice that the plug-in looks way better now.
Chris, you can do the same without octoprint for those that dont want to install a raspberry pi, just do G80 and G81 and post relative data to the following URL pcboy.github.io/g81_relative/ then you can read of the results and adjust in the same manner
Thanks for the link!
Anytime...
Awesome
Thank you
This video makes me regret about my ender3 purchase. I shouldn’t have cheap out too much.
The prusa is hard to beat.
Having problems with my cr10 v2, running marlin on a 1.4 skr turbo, when my axis move in the right direction my prints are mirrored. If I swap x axis so it goes the wrong way it un mirrors but bed bltouch then tries to level off the bed please help
Why not write in a forum with such a problem, no you use UA-cam comments ... completely out of place. and if someone else also has such a problem ... he will surely not find the solution via a youtube comment but in a forum which is searched by search engines. sorry but I don't understand.
@@darkness1943 I have posted in forums and also here which is for comments is it not u tool Chris or anyone who watches this channel could of ran into this problem at some point so could point me in the right direction stop shooting people down keyboard warrior
Hello, the only thing I can think of that would cause this is the X and Y motor cables have been swapped.
@@ChrisRiley thanks for the reply I know your busy, I built the machine from scratch after watching your channel excellent work buddy. my y axis does move when I move the y axis in marlin the x axis is set to move left - right + then y is to the back + to the front - then the blt will level the bed ok but my prints are mirrored, if I reverse x axis my prints are correct but my bltouch will do 4 points then the 5th it will come off the bed. Again great videos keep up the excellent work
Digging a little further it prints opposite to the slicer so if I place the object at the front, it prints at the back