Valorant's Duelist Problem Isn't Going Away!
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- Опубліковано 28 вер 2024
- Watch Anderzz Video here: • Are Dive Agents RUININ...
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As a cypher main I support this. More people to trap and less playing my cypher
we got buffs bro this patch
cypher rly strong now... one might say too strong ;)
@@dwight2310one should keep their mouth closed
Yo samme... cypher my beloved
@@dwight2310 One should play cypher to learn that it is balanced to make him viable on more maps
I think non-movement duelists have fallen into irrelevancy due to agents like KAY/O and Skye being added to the game. Both Skye and KAY/O can fill in that role of a pseudo duelist with more utility. Now compare KAY/O with Phoenix and you'll see how useless Phoenix becomes, cuz KAY/O simply has more utility that helps the team.
Phoenix ult is the best ability in the game
@@cvd1no
@@cvd1 bro... 💀
@@user-fy7hx9gd6u nah they kinda have a point, not the best ult but as a duelist ult its good, free life that can be used to take space on site and all your team just has to follow you
@@cvd1 Kayo ult largely fulfills the same purpose in pro play, you entry, your team takes the site and you get rezzed afterwards, plus kayo isn't susceptible to dying to a fast flank like phoenix is while ulting. not to say phoenix ult is bad, but its not that much stronger than kayo ult to warrant picking him over kayo since kayo has better team util
I know this is a different situation but I'm getting flashbacks from Overwatch. There also was a long lasting dive meta which favoured high mobility/high burst dmg heroes.
With time everyone got tired of it... And when they finally nerfed dive, what followed were some of the worst metas imaginable. It became so bad that in the end it literally made the devs destroy ranked by forcing you to "role que"...
Looking back the decline of dive marked the beginning of the death of OW... I guess what I'm saying is we should be careful what we wish for and think about whether Valo without dive duelists would make the gameplay better or worse
That's an interesting point, but probably not the best comparison. Nearly all of Overwatch's horrible post-dive metas centered on healing. Ana and triple tank, or OP mercy rework, or brigitte... In a sense, even the dive meta was centered around the power of healing, because that is who you were diving to kill: the healers. Over powered healing made Overwatch's very fun combat devolve to un-fun meta comps that performed best. Valorant has no in-combat healing at all, so it fundamentally can't have this issue.
A better comparison is likely CS, which has no "dive" utility and does just fine. Of course, Valorant also has other defensive utility that makes attacking harder. So while we couldn't end up in a TripleTank/GOAT meta, we could end up with attacking being way harder. That is a risk.
If balanced well though... maybe weaker dive would create more methodical attacks over explosive executions. Could be interesting.
despite my love for neon, i cant say she is a well made character.
Her speed makes distance between her and her team when pushing but then she needs to stay close to the team to work with their util and get traded.
Her slide is a hard commit mainly effective for short range fights which doesnt mix well with her stuns that are well... stuns. great for defending but much less effective at attacking because defenders just need to hold you.
and her ult is just annoying because its hell for bad players but anyone with decent-good aim will shut you down.
i really, REALLY, really wanna see a world where riot removes the limiting bar for neon and just let her run infinitely when she presses e. that would bump her up quite a lot in terms of meta, but i'd still have to be realistic, and say that even that won't really make her better than raze and jett.
That would be the most OP thing in the game. They will never do this.
@@Agentfirestarterthat wouldn’t even be as OP as a skye flash lol
too broken
@@HaydenDom nah it would you could always have 3 people on site
@@nickszns bro idk if u knew this but yoru can tp to an entire different site in 1 second
Looking at some of the agents in Valorant, notably Jett, Viper and Killjoy, it’s like Riot never realised when originally designing them how universally useful their kit would be, and that it’ll be really difficult for future agents to compete with them.
Raze competes with Jett, but only because she also has her own near-universally applicable kit, and on some maps you can forgo Op-ing.
KJ’s closest competitor is Cypher - only after literally meta-shifting nerfs to her ult, and also massive Cypher buffs - and she still has a monopoly on the Sentinel role overall.
Harbor was probably intended to compete with Viper, but only made her stronger because her kit is too good to be replaced.
Riot could add another balanced dive duelist like Neon and they’ll turn out just like Neon: a niche pick who can’t truly compete with the top dogs.
I feel like the best way to balance the dive duelist problem is to restrict the satchels and Tailwind to their original purpose of entering sites. But obviously people wouldn’t like losing their ability to Op, or the Swiss Army knife versatility of satchels.
Is there a way to think about this in reverse, like is there a reason why dive agents are necessary in order to execute onto site?
We had quite a bit of no duelist comps before (ascent, icebox in perticular), why has that stopped? (Imo it probably stopped when ppl realise pre-patch chamber wasn’t actually that good and went back to kj)
Look at cs, very different game yes, but they don’t need a dive agent to execute past a smoke and mollies, perhaps we need more precision or creativity when it comes to util and strats?
No duelists was meta for a while when people would op in chamber, and also initiators were so strong that some teams would run chamber - 3 initiators (1 being fade since she was good against chamber) - smokes
I think we should have more Raze and Jett, they are fun to play, important in attack, and can be useful in defense.
Also the split between duel-flash and ini-flash is a really bad things, it makes the duel-flash too strong in soloQ and almost unplayable in proplay, and the inifhal almost unplayable in soloQ and too strong in proplay, making the game impossible to balance. I feel Riot really need to rework the class system (Or maybe consider creating a rolequeue with agent that can be classed in 2 categories, not sure about this one.)
If they buffed isos wall, do you think , even though it is not really a movement ability, still get the job of " creating space " done? It also has some alternative use cases, as you have previously mentioned.
No, unless it gets like 3 charges, cause, although it blocks bullets, it doesn't do anything to help get past molly/trips
Iso wall is more like a jett smoke, not a dash replacement
risk is making the matches too defender heavy, just like csgo. So having those strong characters whom can dive is good for attack. Problem is, they are also very strong for defense. What would a pro match look like if u couldnt play jett or raze and had to face viper or cypher on defense?
personally i disagree somewhat. I feel like util is getting weaker and less dynamic as the game progresses. so characters with flexibility thrive. while the dive meta is annoying, I really hate how neon is designed and don't want that to be the norm just because it makes the game look balanced in a spreadsheet way
Could we see Jett lose the ability to go left or right with her tailwind, and only move forward/backward? I feel like this gets rid of her "other capability" as she'll be less powerful as an op agent who can get out free, which is chambers job anyway. As far as satchels go, it's hard to change them and get rid of their other purposes without making them have a new identity. maybe stop letting them boost teammates? If you get rid of their damage or their ability to move enemies I feel like that removes a lot from the ability as a whole, but at the same time one of the two has to be done to really reign her in. Neon could be interesting with a shorter cooldown on her high gear, or maybe even a period of invulnerability to abilities or mollies while she slides. I feel like invulnerability to abilities to strong, but maybe a damage resistance factor while sliding? Just spitballing ideas here
This is sort of where I think we should look to make changes to the current "overpowered" duelists to try and bring them back down, although I like the invuln on slide idea for Neon.
Jett: I agree about remove the ability to move laterally directly with Tailwind, so that you only have the option to dash straight forwards or backwards. It reduces the "additional" use power of the ability that TMV mentioned which makes taking aggressive angles with an op a lot harder. I don't really think the dash distance needs to be touched although you could reel that back a touch after making the first change if it still felt necessary and if you still felt the need to counter balance, you could maybe give her 2 updrafts back with a short input lock between the 2 so you can't do the max height double updraft that lead to them removing the 2nd one in the first place.
Raze: Raze's ability to directly take space is the strongest in the game and I think is the area that needs focusing for her kit. I think reducing the versatility of what her blast packs do, just dumbs down the kit too much so I think you need to focus on the entry strength. To combat that, my idea was to tie the amount of knock back to the current damage activation time. (I'm going to use made up numbers to demonstrate). So post-activation, it would do the max knockback (let's call it 5m) but pre-activation would do half of that (2.5m). So you could still use it to deny pushes during the pre-activation phase but it would hurt the double satchel max distance because your 2nd satchel would never hit activation time while you're flying through the air.
@@CiviGGI think if raze and Jett didn’t exist there is a good chance we would see no duelist meta. Raze and Jett have a lot of util they bring to the team that no other agents bring, while the others, especially phoenix and Reyna, will just bring less to the team than some more initiators or controllers would bring, so they won’t be picked. It’s not like “we NEED a duelist so let’s pick the best ones, Jett or raze” it’s “let’s bring this dive util into our comp” the other duelists aren’t offering much except for niche teams (prx) or niche maps (pearl). The map discussion imo was pretty good, and I also think enabling more counter play against dive would be good. If dive was just removed, maybe that refocuses valorant gameplay but it’s a bit boring and makes it feel more like csgo, as removing util will always do (yes I know how important util is in csgo). I think adding counterplay with new agents that can better punish dive comps will be more interesting for the game, and that sort of comp building aspect is what I think makes valorant what it is
i have like 600+ hours on neon while peaking ascendent and i think that the ceiling of neon is pretty high but the floor is just shit. neons util just gets out classed by the other two. but i don’t think raze and jett need more nerfs be they’ve been getting hit pretty hard lately. i think neon just needs an all around buff. i’d add damage to the wall for enemies only, i’d make the stun radius slightly bigger and more importantly the time it takes to stun quicker (also stuns desperately just need a buff in general i’d just add the run and gun penalty to stuns), and make the sprint bar go down slower and make the hit box of the sliding neon smaller or maybe make the slide faster. neons slide is just so much worst than jett dash and raze jumps so i think it needs a pretty big buff
I agree. Stuns are very underwhelming and you can still easily one-tap people while stunned. And nerfing her wall made it almost useless because people just peek it with no penalty, which is not the case for literally any other ability in the game. Idk why Riot keeps forgetting that they can just disable team damage
Stuns need a buff but that might be too much. That would just be a free kill for anyone stunned
Nerfing the “dive” duelist would be the death of this game
Instead they should focus on developing better dive duelist instead of Reyna 2.0(ISO)
I DONT THINK YOU CAN FIX THIS PROBLEM WITHOUT MAKING THE GAME LESS FUN. I say this because Jett and Raze are some of the most fun agents to play by merits of their high movement and skill cap. its because the movement in this game is so slow and restrictive that if you remove them, yr just playing slower counter strike. At the same time of the duelists being able to dive onto sites to attack, defenders have utility that can stall for 20- 30 secs each in a 1:40 per round game. this certainly is an interesting problem, but i dont think these agents are going anywhere as they are some of the only skill expression outside of mechanics and lineups that the game has.
If jett and raze were to disappear, i can see drx winning tournaments just off rb's neon movement
Make jett’s dash go forwards only
can somebody tell me why yoru tpping into a smoke (like a brim smoke) mid site isnt strictly better than a jett? assuming that its a spare smoke and not necessary for a site hit, then surely its JUST better no? why dont we see more of that?
Bro, you know teams use the Jett dash into smoke because 1. it splits attention and crosshair placement and 2. it shows to your entire team minimap if there's someone on site. Just tp to a smoke don't do shit.
Requires coordination with the smoker. The tp's placement is just harder to control than tailwind or satchels. Those two agents also have the advantage of verticality in their movement as well. Why spend more time and effort when you can get very similar results with the alternatives? It's all about being as efficient as possible.
Jett benifits over Yoru TP:
- It's quicker.
- It pulls your gun faster.
- You can see enemies while dashing.
- Jett has a smoke in the kit contrary to Yoru.
Keep in mind Raze does not need a smoke like Jett because she can use height too and benefits of seeing the site while hovering. Yoru does not has that luxury. He could do so much better if he could pull guns faster. It could make it much less dependent on smokes and an actual threat.
the only upsides im seeing are verticality, mini map vision cones, and less effort
can you not skye dog or sova drone the close angles?
and yoru being in the smoke midsite with his full kit of flashes and clone seems so much more effective, no?
as opposed to jett whos only staying power is her smokes
and this whole time you can have a much more versatile duelist who can do things OTHER than just op and entry.
yoru op is obviously insane since you can essentially be opping both sites with his tps. i know his tp is MUCH slower than a jett dash, but if youre playing op correctly then that shouldnt matter.
idk, yoru whacky
"assuming that its a spare smoke and not necessary for a site hit" that's the problem, you need a spare smoke, unlike Jett smokes, controller Smokes last longer and therefore take up a lot more of the power budget for the controller agents, Yoru + any controller smoke takes too much resources, that "spare smoke" is better used somewhere else. The reason Jett is better is because her smokes are more disposable and it's already part of her kit, you get the ability to dive using only 1 agent pick, any "spare smoke" you'd get as a Jett can be used somewhere else more effectively.
Your AC unit looks like a sticker in this video
what Im hearing, is neon needs a few buffs
Neon is the best Duellist but not many can play the Agent. Neon gives the Wall for the whole Team and everyone can follow...
I think razes satchels are fine
But in a kit thay centers around them
The boombot needs less health less tracking and a bigger hitbox
And the nade needs to only kill on a full hit of everything whilst dealing more damage to utility again
That would justify the satchels being a swissarmy knife of an ability
For jett the dash cant be changed but maybe they can make it that the updraft can only be activated later giving it much less mixup potential
In the case of what to do with opping dash you can make the dash a triple tap to activate you need one time to prime it and then tap it in rapid succestion twice to make it pop essntialy making it shit for ops but not effecting entry power
I don’t think you quite get the point of this video. The point of this video is that if you took everything other abilities away from raze and Jett and just gave them dash and satchels they would still see play because movement abilities to entry are just that important to the way the game is played. No amount of tweaking their kits is going to change that. You are trying to balance something that can’t be “ balanced”
@@hastyscorpion he explicitly said that he would be fine with movement abilities if they were only used for movement
But i do get your point no matter what
it is infinitly harder to push a sight with phoenix per say than with jett
So in my opinion i think the balance changes i brought up are good so long as you also buff phoenix and deadlock (reyna is genuinley just for people who wanna turn their brain off and aim im not counting her as an agent)
Because
1. Phoenix is the duelist with the biggest issue in entering sites and pushing chokes
2. Deadlock is supposed to counter jetts and razes but fails at her job in that
I don't agree with you calling is a "problem". A problem is normally something that needs to be fixed. This one is a challenge for game designers, but that isn't a bad thing.
jett's dash should be used slower like yoru's tp, so if you're using op and you wanna dash away after getting 1, opponents have a chance to kill you. So when oping you should play smarter and be able to get back in a corner before dashing away. I would even say Chamber's TP should work like that, and then they could work on buffing chamber in other areas, because without get out of jail free card old chamber wouldnt have been too broken imo.
Even yoru can dive in
I think a very extreme but good nerf for raze is to only have one satchel, still good movement and lots of side uses but less of a problem flying around
While I think this isn't a bad idea, I'm sure tons of people would get mad because you wouldnt be able to double satchel anymore
I feel that might be a little too harsh for raze. I don't mind double satchels but it's the fact they can do a lot. I think that as a movement option it's fine but the fact it can still destroy traps and trips and knock enemies is what I think tmv is what he wants to stay. It can do too much for the ability to double satchel and fly into site.
Wouldn't maybe try removing those additional abilities be the thing to remove then? I think boosting teammates and yourself is still fine but the fact she can knock enemies(while having her gun up mind U) and destroy traps is a bit too much like tmv says in this video
PS: it's late and my brain is shutting down so my sentence structure is as stable as my in game internet connection
Breeze is poop thats all thanks for reading
how dare you make fun of icebox
This is going to be a hot take but I think simply other duelist (not yoru) should be buffed. Like buff phx, rework Reyna (she’s the worst character for the game ever imaginable), and buff neon slightly. That way your r increase the viability of these low pick character (in pro play at least) and also nerf raze a little and Jett a little. Through a serious of small. Also slightly buff sentinel utility which counters there dive ability
phoenix is already OP asf in ranked and neon has her place in pro play
Yea like give chamber his second trip and increase the slowness to his field and increase the reduction time of how long his slow field remains there
First
Gift me battlepass
Get a job bruh
It's barely more than the cost of a coffee.
Bro begging for 10 dollars💀
@@itsCynos @kreapys8096 @Hoserzzz Chill bois, it was just a sarcastic comment as I was the first one to comment.
As long as players don't use their brains (so for all of time) Valorant will have a duelist problem.
I think it logically makes sense in relation to movement abilities for Neon's maximum impact to be lesser than that of Jett and Raze. Simply for the fact that her sprint is a recharging ability capable of providing persistent utility throughout a round. I think this is a core underlying principle that differs between all of these movement duelists.
If we were to order their movement abilities in terms of reusability and persistence:
1. Neon
2. Jett
3. Raze
However, conversely if we were to order them in terms of impact and flexibility:
1. Raze
2. Jett
3. Neon
It's an interesting dilemma where you have to choose a ratio between:
- How much immediate impact you'd like to have in execs
Vs
- How much sustained and reallocable impact you'd like
As it stands, the current Valorant meta heavily biases a maximal immediate impact over a relatively slower and more methodical approach to execs.
I think Deadlock was intended to directly counter and deter teams from banking on one-and-done dive comps such as Raze and Jett, but was just unfortunately poorly executed.
In terms of attempting to balance each respective agent:
- Neon: Honestly I think Neon is in a great spot. She's a niche pick and there's definitely more argument for buffs than nerfs however, I believe that it's better to have niche agents to genuinely theorycraft and strategise around than it is to have agents that are just by far a great pick on most maps. There needs to be clear and defined benefits as well as drawbacks for each and every agent.
- Jett: Following in that train of thought, the recent changes to Jett's dash timer, updraft charges and smoke duration have weakened her kit significantly in general usage but not necessarily in explosive execs. This is ultimately a good thing as it helps to define her intent and boundaries more clearly. The fact that the dash is a two kill refresh is a fairly moot point at the highest level of gameplay as it's rare for the entry frag to get that refresh when the other team is not on a eco. Even so, there could potentially be an argument that due to the instantaneous nature of the dash, its range should be slightly reduced as a dashing jett is considerably less vulnerable than a blast packing raze.
- Raze: Holistically the utility that Raze's kit provides in the current meta is overtuned. Adding the arm time to the blast packs is a fantastic counter measure to mitigate some of the general usability of the packs. However, a very bleak thought is the fact that Raze's blast packs alone can approximately accomplish what both Jett's updraft and dash in conjunction acheive. That isn't to say it's not okay to have a very strong piece of util however, the rest of her kit lacks sufficient drawbacks to justify it. Her grenade is still one of the best pieces of deterrant and offensive utility in the game even after the minimum damage changes. Her boombot achieves all of the same things as a wingman or prowler whilst having a smaller hitbox and lesser avoidable CC. Her ult can be both great or tragic, the cost of it is able to scale relative to its power level so its fairly in line.
Personally, I think Riot is trying to get away from the *only* option being hard fast execs, and making it one of many options available to teams if they're willing to accept the risk and drawbacks of the strategy.
It's definitely a complex issue and I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts on the matter.
I agree that fast execs becoming less strong would be a good direction for the game to move in. Deadlock I think genuinely has the potential to be good at what you describe, shutting down fast execs and maybe even isolating the dive duelist and putting them in an unfavorable spot. However, she's genuinely bad at what the character is intended to do and doesn't fill any other role. I think if certain agents had the capability to consistently shut down fast execs, then it's logical for Raze to become worse since her blast packs aren't rechargeable. However, since this is just coming from the average valorant player, IDK how you would implement that change. Like there are maps like Breeze where Raze wasn't picked due to the sheer distance across the map, but not every map can be as wide open as Breeze.
I do disagree with your take on Neon, however, I think she does need buffs, like her wall can often create space for her enemies to play around (maybe bring back the damage on it, and just make it so it doesn't damage teammates), the stun is hard to capitalize off of and because of how stuns work they might not even get you a free pick, and I just think it sucks that neon sprint is stopped dead in its tracks by a kj turret or something. The bullet punch on neon when she gets shot should be decreased at least, although it would be pretty strong. Maybe instead her slide runs on a cooldown as well as the kills so she can get it back without a kill? Or you get a free slide and then after each slide consumes energy? Again, not a game designer or an analyst but I feel like she can be unrewarding for learning her incredibly challenging mechanics compared to a character like raze, especially for ranked instead of at the top level.
@@xdtrollface5721 I really agree with the neon take, and I do think the bullet punch could be a bit less punishing to her or something similar. On top of that, Neon's run is relatively persistent, as the top comment mentioned, but that doesn't really mean much if the impact is as low as it is. My personal take would be to buff neon to give her a bit more impact, and then buff impact of the non-movement duelists to make them do more than just directly compete with initiators.
best take so far. I think the underlying problem really is that agents that can augment short bursts of explosivity (on offense) are often more favored and have more options at their disposal than those agents who have more sustainable, yet less-impactful resources in their kit.
However, what's interesting to note is that its's the OPPOSITE case for sentinels, which is the most problematic class next to duelists. Sage and deadlock have arguably more stopping power than kj/cypher, but the trade-off to that power is the unsustainable and 'dissipating' nature of their abilities. Two of the abilities of kj/cypher can be operational for the entire round, whereas sage has none of such and deadlock has just one and, hell even unreliable. Does this mean that barrier sentinels and surveillance sentinels have a HUGE power imbalance as well?
I think these all boil down to the fact that, sentinels are defensive experts while duelists are potent aggressors; and the game itself revolves around THEIR INTERACTIONS. Controllers and initiators have no other job but to support their duelist/sentinel. So naturally, as the game evolves there would be agents that hard counters specific agents (raze counters cypher, cypher counters neon, neon counters chamber... so on). It's what keeps the game alive and meta shifting. What riot needs to do is to MAKE IT CLEAR who's countering who so teams can adapt and not just stick to same agents over and over again only because it's unbeatable. In the game's state right now especially in pro play, jett/raze and kj/cypher counter each other, while the barrier sentinels and non-dive duelists are left out of the equation. They exist for simply adding an extra offensive or defensive power to a team comp- but other than that, there's no reason to pick them. For instance, why pick neon when she can only counter chamber, whereas jett/raze can counter almost every sentinel?
The jett/raze dichotomy and the kj supremacy are inherently intertwined- the solution to both is an AGENT that can effectively shut down an explosive push (dive), and yet is counterable through methodical approach (non-dive). It was supposedly Deadlock but she failed in that regard. There needs to be a punishment for playing fast, like a trip mine ability that explodes 100 dmg on contact or something- or perhaps a tesla trap that electrocutes anyone moving at speed higher than walking with gun out. Those are just random ideas but there should at least be anything that can vex a dive duelist more than a non-dive duelist.
such a banger comment, very interesting to think of riot's intent with tradeoffs
For Raze satchels you forgot:
- disengage from fights (like worse Jett dash)
- deny plant or defuse
- boost the boombot
- animation cancel the ult
- stall the pushes (altough it can be counted as dealing damage or bumping enemies, because they won't push because of that)
- speed up the movement (for faster rotations for example)
it's worth noting that you can damage Omen and Phoenix when in ult if you satchel them before they return. I don't think there's a second ability that can do this
I think the satchel is the most versatile piece of utility in the whole game
Satchel should be raze's E and her nade her Q non-rechargeable
You wanna know a fact Devs only thought that raze's satchels would only be used for boosting in high places and giving chip damage. It was the community who thought of everything including double satchels
yeah just take dive out of the game and turn it into worse cs2, also remove shotguns and everything else that makes me angy when im outplayed. please 5 sentinel comps rifles only
swear to god man most of the people who complain about valorant would just be better off playing cs2 but their brains can't cope with not staring at high contrast technicolor and fidgeting with digital sensory toys
One plus for Neon you didn’t mention is that Neons auto refreshes and are free to buy. Satchels need to be bought and you have make 2.
Overall I think that the dive duelists are strong. I think in part that’s a strategy choice that pro teams like and will look for. I think they could add some other options in new agents that help to give viable alternatives. ISO’s wall is a good example, I don’t think it’s anywhere near as strong atm but it could fill the same entry role if buffed.
tbh the price for satchels only make a difference on pistol rounds. The rest of the rounds, buying some utility hardly makes a difference, and it's worth it
@@ch33k41Also, Jett of course does not have this issue
Well I mean you’re going to have to buy stuns and a wall to even be able to make space so I don’t really see that as a plus gl running onto a site without a single stun.
Strength of utility is BY FAR more important than cost. If you had to buy kj's turret she'd still be meta. And dive duelists arent a strategy choice, it's a requirement in high level play. You're forced into the meta of dive duelists no matter what because if you go against it you'll be absolutely destroyed. Even in high level ranked its hard without a dive duelist
In Tier 1-4 jett and raze will be picked because of their utility but that is not the main reason why they are picked in ranked. They are picked in ranks because dash and satchels are really fun to use as well as being very good.
I agree that the solution should be alternative dive duelists that are more comparable to neon than jett and raze, but other than sprinting I'm not sure what else there is. They kind of got there with yoru and omen's TP, but I just don't see those replacing jett and raze as long as their dive works as it does now.
I’ve been thinking of this idea for a while. They could add a champ whose movement ability is to throw a ball or orb and instantly tp to the spot it thrown to. The range should be somewhere inbetween a jett dash and raze double satchel distance. Yoru has a tp but let’s face it yoru’s tp isn’t that good. Also the tp should have the ability to add a bounce like so a dart
@@laserhawk221 so like a yoru flash that acts as a tp once it hits a object? im thinking one time use but either recharge by waiting 30 seconds or 1 or more kills and also weapon pull out animation would be set off
not sure if thats too op but still
A tunneling duelist? Within a range, they can bring up a map to click where to tunnel (similar to Brim smokes) - imagine a movement ability that has a dotted line trail on the ground that shows the line traveled, but because you have the option to select the specific spot, you can place your exit in cover.
Maybe good util use during the tunneling could pull the char out of it and stun them as a counter. This is a weird movement because you can kill Jett, Raze, and Neon in their "dashes".
@@laserhawk221That sounds like an even worse Yoru tp. Horrible idea imo, especially if you can only tp within the range of a Jett dash or Raze satchel.
@@gg4life579kinda like yoru flash but I don’t think it should activate once it hits something. It should activate once it has gone its max range and u should be able to hit the button again to activate it before max range, this will add some level of skill and better usage. Also yea one time use would be good and you get it back after two kills like Jett dash
All these comments suggesting to just make jett an F tier agent lmao
" To keep Phoenix at the same level of parity of other entry duelists we have given him the ability to turn into a literal Phoenix and dive bomb onto site. Cheers guys!"
Nah, my man turn into banaspati instead
Why blame Jett and Raze for having their entry too strong? Why not blame the other "duelists" (lets be real, iso, phoenix, reyna, and yoru are 50% flash initiators) for their entry being too weak? The role of "Entry" is incredibly powerful to allow site hits to cross dangerous angles quickly and break up a site hold. Flashes simply can't make those dangerous angles safe for more than a second or two when your entire team needs to cross. Entry duelists make the site holders turn around and break their attention.
Maybe Iso's wall is good enough to function as entry, but I really don't think so. Make more entry duelists, instead of making the entry duelists worse.
Thats the thing, the other duelists are FINE at taking space, however they are just so much worse comparatively to Jett and Raze. The issue isn’t much with the agent themselves, it’s just the meta doesn’t cater to them at all.
I will say I do think Raze satchels and Jett dash remain too versatile just as TMV stated but I do think they should make a movement ability a core part of every duelists kit. Maybe they should even rename duelists to entry.
A quick and dirty way I see for a more balanced approach to entries:
1) Jett can only dash forward. This change doesn't hurt entry and you can still do the same escapes as now but you need to be much more skilled with fast flicking to where you want to go.
2) Raze satchel becomes her signature ability, you only get one, it only effects Raze, but it is 50% stronger than current satchels. She can get a second one back after 2 kills instead of nade.
3) Phoenix wall instead of extending infront of Phoenix turns into a charged up (think Breach stun) that dashes a distance leaving the fire wall behind him based on how long it charges. This means Phoenix needs a vulnerable period of time to execute his entry ability making it worse in some situations compared to Jett but he still have one.
duration
4) Reyna dismiss should have the option to be used without a soul but with the duration being dependent on the same charge up style mechanic I suggested for Phoenix. this makes he post kill escape slightly better than Jett is many situations but also gives her the entry ability.
5) Iso should have the ability to tuck himself into his shield wall such that when an opponent sees the shield wall come onto their site they need to worry about whether or not Iso is inside of it thus moving some attention toward the wall and achieving the entry job.
I personally would like Yoru to be changed to an initiator (with a movement skill). sorry eggster! I think this could be accomplished by adding some strong intel properties to his clone and making it his 40 second rechargeable signature over gate crash. My initial thought is his clone should act as a player for its vision cone on the minimap and when killed should give a single short wallhack style intel ping for its killer. The intel of this new clone and his current ult mixed with his strong but high skill flashes would make for an initiator that I think could compete for even a solo initiator slot. They may need to negative compensate his gun ready time of gate crash since he is not an initiator.
Because they're all viable entries (and we've seen it done in pro play, even though they're niche picks). They've just been neglected because Jett and Raze are way more versatile
honestly i dont think this is a problem. it makes the game more fun, flashy, and more intriguing to new players. Raze and Jett are not broken, by any means. Its just all of the other duelists aren’t good options as neon is kind of just a worse version of jett and raze and all the non movement duelists are just worse flash initiators.
At this point, it’s hard to say if it’s even a problem worth fixing. Does every agent need to be viable in pro play? This is the most selfish agent class in a team-based game, maybe we should just accept that the only viable ones are those who provide concrete, unique value to the team?
The only reason i play this kusoge is raze's movement.
Making the game less fun or interesting for the sake of balance seems counterproductive to me.
Balance for the sake of balance is useless in my opinion .
I think it would be interesting if there’s a banning/picking phase - that way it would give more space for counter-play.
no way. people would dodge once their main got banned it would be a huge time waster. idea is good but players are annoying
@@jfult7876then those people gonna get banned eventually because people will almost always ban problematic agent on the ladder.
No the agent pool is too small for a ban. If you ban jett and raze on split for example the entire meta will flip upside down.
Ban-pick phase would be the end of Valorant strategy. Look at league of legends. Theres a thing called "counterpick" where it basically means Champion A WILL BEAT champion B due to the nature of those champs. Thats not fun and does not promote skill and strategy. Ban pick exists in league cuz there are too many champs and some champs just straight up render other champs useless. No pick ban please
Ban phase works in games like dota and league due to having over 130 heroes. As valo designs it's agents based on countries, after more than half the world is done, ie over atleast 60 to 70 agents - then only does this become viable
Interesting video. Although I definitely agree that the versatility of jett and razes utility makes them outclass all the other duelists and makes them a must-pick in pro play, I don't think decreasing their versatility would bring other agents like neon up. In ranked, you really still see the same general pickrates, with jett, raze, viper, kj and skye all near the top. Although yes reyna and sage are outliers in ranked, dive shouldn't be as necessary in a less coordinated environment, but it still reflects the top level duelist meta. I personally think if raze and jett were not in the game, all the other duelists would be in the same spot they're at because of this. Instead the meta would likely be like pearl/icebox, with no duelist and two flex picks to util spam site. It also doesn't help that most of the other duelists kits are pretty weak. Neon stuns are tricky to hit and dont really guarantee a kill, wall is easy to punish, slide is decent but really only has one use case. Phoenix has two great abilities but two shit ones, yoru 💀, reyna needs a kill to do anything, etc.
Why is Neon not considerd a "dive duelist"
as somebody who plays all the dive duelists, it's interesting how I play best with the weakest pick, Neon
If your skill level is low enough Neon movement can be fast enough to get past the opponents crosshairs and work as effectively as a Jett dash. Also Neon is better at unexpected timings if that is a tactic you employ.
Yeah but at the end of the day jett is a better pick because it is more versatile
6:30 u forgot stop spike defuse
I don't think there is a good solution to this. Movement abilities are just too useful for entering sites. If Riot doesn't want Raze and Jett to be the only duelists really picked, the only option is to add more duelists that have near instantaneous movement. They also have the option of removing those abilities from raze and jett but that would destroy the identity of those characters. A middle ground they could go for is removing jett's smokes and increasing her gun pullout after dash, and for raze decrease satchel speed and distance and remove 1 satchel. It feels wrong to suggest those nerfs but how else can you balance them with non movement duelists? They could also attempt to buff the other duelists to be more entry focused. Yoru's tp could be invisible to enemies, move faster and have a faster startup, and have the same gun pullout time as raze and jett. Neon could have a longer slide with the same invulnerability as jett dash. Reyna can be deleted from the game. Iso can be deleted from the game. Phoenix could replace his molly with an entry ability, maybe a teleport of some kind, or deleted from the game. When you look at the options, you realize there is no good solution to this issue.
lmao the deletion of reyna and iso sounds both serious and sarcastic at the same time. But I agree though, they're completely useless outside their niche uses.
I'd say at some point, riot is gonna need to do a HEAVY OVERHAUL on the duelist roster pretty much like what they did to the controllers last year. They can make it so that like what you said, a duelist is either entry-focused or frags-focused. The differences would then boil down to the styles and gimmicks of each duelist in fulfilling one of the two roles.
- Jett is the by far the best in terms of 'pressure entry'. Her dashing into her smokes applies so much pressure to the defending team. Although this style of entry is the most potent, I still think that other (future) methods may have some fair decent amount of competition.
- Raze is known for her 'explosive entry'. This style entails that raze doesn't give a damn whether she gets killed or not- she blastpacks into sites full-frontal, not needing any cover or safe haven. Although it's risky, her other utilities (especially her nade) makes it all the more effective.
- Neon lastly, is the hybrid entry agent that can do both of the methods above, albeit less effectively and more inconsistently. If we're gonna think about it, if she can do both, why is she not a dive option for teams? And I think, the answer to this is that it's all because her movement ability: high gear IS BAD. Yeah, it's reusable. Yeah, it can break timings. But can those justify picking neon over jett and raze? Nah. She definitely needs tweaks to her sprint - like maybe make the slide have less traction and more displacement. Also, don't you think it's quite justified to make neon's slide distance be the same as jett dash' and be NEAR instantaneous? Because if you'd think about it, jett's dash have so much uses and can be used mid-air whereas with neon's slide you still absorb molly damage and such. As tradeoff, perhaps make her sprint fuel replenish only on kills? This change would be interesting as it would dramatically improve neon's horizontal mobility to make up for her lack of verticality.
Now let's dive into the more complicated side of things- the fragging duelists.
- Yoru: I think his playstyle among every other duelists, is the most masterful and outplay-centered. It's completely normal for an agent like him to tp in and out of the meta because of that. But I do wish there is an option to activate a clone from a faked tp lol.
- Phoenix, I don't really think his utility is made to FRAG. He literally has an initiator toolset (molly, flash, wall) and and among which he can get kills only from his flashes. The only duelist thing he possesses is his low-cost ult which is a saving grace done by riot. Phoenix, ideally, should be the best agent in close-quarter combats since his utils are made to clear close corners. If riot make it so that his molly/wall is actually a better and more lethal space-clearing tool than raze's nade (meaning his molly gets hailed as the best molly in the game, and oh, raze gets nerfed again!), then I think he'll be picked more often.
- Iso, (sighs) he had a huge potential, but his e let me down. Raze & jett counters defensive spam utilities by flying, meanwhile iso's wall entry gets countered by almost everything: viper molly, kj nanoswarm, skye dog, fade dog, you name it. And the way the wall travels is also super telegraphed, even just by looking at its point of origin you can almost discern the intention of the enemy iso. A movement duelist is almost always needed alongside iso from an entry perspective. But from a FRAGGING perspective, iso has lots of potentials with his shields and the best of his abilities: vulnerables. His wall and ult are also good at isolating fights. So if iso comes out weak, I suggest they buff not the mere entry aspect of his kit, but the unique fragging aspects (add another charge of his wall).
What I to this day do not understand is, why did they nerf Neon's running fuel? Originally you were able to run for a lot longer than you can now, today, it's basically always out before you finish rotating forcing you to wait before you can entry for your team on the retake which deminishes the one advantage she is supposed to have over Jett and Raze because you can't actually use your faster rotations very effectively.
I find this kind of funny with the parallels to overwatch’s tracer being so important to the meta to the point that when nerfs no longer do anything they try to come out with characters to prevent them. The difference being that Brig was completely broken and Deadlock was god awful.
I rly think the issue also lies with Jett and especially raze just having the best duellist util outside of their gap closers. And jett is just the best OP character other than chamber who is quite niche rn.
From what i am seeing is that almost all agent are severely underpowered that only raze and jett actually have meaningful abilities
Dive duelists are not the problem, they are the answer
i reckon if we got rid of raze and jett we would just not use duelists, cause other agents bring more value than say a phoenix, reyna or neon in many cases. if you can't break through chokes, just use agent util to go around somehow, and like you said the other util just isn't as versatile. so an omen may be stronger than some "secondary" duelist.
At that point we would just be playing counter strike, except the way CS fixes it is by making the defender's guns worse and more expensive so attackers have a general gunfight advantage, and even then CS is still pretty defender sided.
@@Max_McGamer so you're saying without raze and jett we're essentially playing CS? Kinda based.
@@ohbitchuary I mean you can put basically every ability in valorant into a category, smokes, flashes, recon, drone etc. counter strike is just valorant but with only smokes, flashes, mollies, raze nades, and pre-rework yoru footsteps for some reason.
I dont fully agree but I align eith some points especially multiple yse for abilities. This is a great example for Skye and Deadlock. Skye flash... Short, long, pop, delayed, fake, above walls, through smokes, around corners, recharges, 2 uses, gives info. So many uses on just one ability.
Deadlock Cage, only blocks peoppe from moving in one small direction, 2% of the time could trap someone in a corner. Thats it. Deadlock is good in one situation so shes awful. Skye has a ton of options and play styles so she is amazing.
Also that onr distinctifying factor of Neon was nerfed. She cant run around as much as she used to which I think was such a weird nerf when jett and raze has powerful instant movement... Neon could get her value over time in contrast rather than instant
So this is what val content hivemind decided to target next? Pro players just want to whine through some changes at the expense of the whole playersbase. The fact that every pro match where team don't have a decent plan falls into double controller team and playing "default deluxe" every round don't bother those people and they consider it balanced, but for some reason double controller doesn't considered the problem but skill ceilings of some agents do. Without agents like jett and raze game will be just worse version of CS - who would want to play same game but slower and more annoying
If "highest level of competition" wants their problems fixed maybe they should vote for agent bans in pro play, or removing possibility to pick double controller, but such things would require to adapt on the fly which is out of their comfort zone with set plays and holding angles on attack for almost whole round.
The easiest way to counter this problem is to divide the abilities strong part onto different and separate agents but riot wont do that because its too annoying
They kind of do this already, Chamber's TP is just a jett dash but you can only use it defensively. So to balance the dash they would have to remove the defensive aspect and make it fully entry util, one way to do this would be making the dash only go forward so you have to use it to push rather than fall back. The problem is that the community would go berserk if they removed Jett's opping ability
They should make Jett Dash distance scale off the primary weapon walking speed. The Op walking speed is slow, so her dash is short, the Vandal is more further than the Op, and the Stinger is almost her current dash distance. She can only acheive max distance of current dash with no primary weapon, so only secondary and her knives.
this is a very great idea. maybe apply it to raze’s satchels as well
i think the point TMV is trying to make is that the dash is too flexible, not that it should be nerfed to the ground. the only thing your nerf would impact is how much of an off angle an op could be posted in with dash up and even then high elo jetts will either smoke before dashing or not be posted as wide so this just makes her entries a lot worse, especially with updraft, which is not what should be nerfed
i don t think raze satchel allowing you to boost up or wideswing is "secondary use".Booping enemies and dealing damage, sure. But satchel swinging and getting to unusual angles is the sole purpose of a movement ability
i definitely dont think nerfing or deleting jett or raze would ever fix their problem, their versatility is what makes them so good for pro play and high competitive elo, and taking out something versatile because they cant recreate anything else as versatile, wont raise the pickrates for any other duelist, at that point duelist meta just goes down, since literally every initiator is a better psuedo-duelist. its a matter of needing to be able to recreate something as versatile. im sure they can get creative enough to do it but they just havent yet
to nerf jett dash with oping, id make it so u can only dash forward but no timewindow anymore, you can dash at any point but it goes in the direction where you aim, for raze i honestly dont think you can nerf the satchels, id prefer the other parts like the grenade and boombot be nerfed like riot are doing
I hate the argument that Jett and raze get used a lot = we need to nerf Jett and raze. The other duelists are just dogshit why don’t we just buff them and stop making duelists with no effective dive util?
Some changes that would possibly fix this problem:
- Jett can now only dash forwards. Simple change that means in order to dash to get out, you have to spend the extra time looking over. Plus, the clips of people trying to adjust to this change would he funny.
- Potentially replace the cloudbursts with something else. Not only are they not hype, they also have too much impact outside of entrying(and too much for entrying tbh, even with the half time getting like 4 seconds to lurk around in smokes is hella strong when your allies are running around). Maybe give an ability that just shoots one knife, that could be hype.
- Make Raze satchels unable to push anyone that isnt yourself. Makes entrying easier, since you dont have to worry about fucking up your teamates, and lowers their utility outside of entrying massively.
- More changes would probably be needed, but this would be a good place to start.
Jett needs the smokes, it's just how the agent is designed, they do need a bit of a rework though. I also thought of making the dash forward only, it removes the "get out of jail free card" usage of it while keeping the offensive utility. This also makes sense as they said that was reasoning for the shorter dash and smoke durations, so that's clearly the way Riot is going currently. The only issue is that Riot would get more than a few death threats, not joking.
After the buff ive been having great time playing Deadlock on icebox
I would like to see pro valorant with a couple agent bans and see how the game looks
if you have like youtube one trick level neon movement it’s hella broken
The only people who share this opinion are the ones who only watch grumpy, temet, or shiroz montages instead of full vods. In reality, they only do crazy moves and shit like a few times a game because its really easy to counter once you expect it.
non dive duelists are just budget initiators lmao
Make VALORENT CS?
That asuna clip is insane lmao
ever heard of pop flashes?
its not a problem
1:04 bruh, their team didn’t even have a single duelist; wtf were they thinking?
It was chamber meta many played no duelist chamber instead of jett just like optic
@@Thejunirboy Still a very stupid decision made by pros. Yes, hypothetically, chamber is a duelist, but is still a sentinel in reality, & the fact that they lost 0-13 as pros is embarrassing.
@@mtndewisawesome3951 it was the meta at that time chamber was better as an opper then jett and this loss comes down to poor perfomance by the team, when you loose like that it wasnt the tactics but rather they were shit i do get your point as the playstyle has shifted now where exec is now fast rather then slow checking every corner coz there is no more chamber sitting at an offangle one tapping and tp to spawn
@@Thejunirboy I guess chamber is easier to use since u dont have to work on movement unlike jett & u only gotta press e to escape trade while with jett, u gotta press e if u know theres more than a single enemy and then pressing e again without accedently pressing the wrong movement key like w unless of course you're pushing.
I think maybe the design interaction between movement duelists and non movement duelists isn’t playing out as the devs intended. What I think they imagined is that a non movement duelist would fill a more “first blood, 2nd entry” role where they open up the route to the first choke for the movement duelist to minimize losing your entry before you reach the choke, then they follow behind the movement duelist as they entry to further help with the pinch with their offensive utility.
How it ends up playing out is that they compete for the same role when non movement duelists aren’t made to fill that role. I think maybe having more non movement duelists with more useful team based util (like an initiator hybrid) could help to push this dynamic so that you wouldn’t lose out on as much team util by picking two duelists.
Those are just my thoughts based on a hypothetical design that I have no confirmation on so take it with a grain of salt ofc.
i think iso actually fits the mold of what you're talking about perfectly, his wall and his vulnerable are both great for setting someone else up to go in first, although it makes me think he really shouldn't have been a duelist at all
@@ruta_VA honestly very true. I’m way way interested to see how he plays out
The thing about flash duelists is that flash initiators also exist. Otherwise, they would see much more play. Movement initiators don't exist.
@@imperador7796 Exactly. The one plus of a flash duelist over a flash initiator is that the duelist dying in first contact isn't that big of a deal. If someone else tries to take first blood and fails, the team loses valuable util like a dash, scan, trip, or smoke. If a second duelist dies, they lose a little bit of selfish frag potential.
But I don't think the upside of being less risky is really enough, especially when initiators so commonly have flashes that are flat out better when coordinated properly.
For me almost all duelits should have a dash or a way to isolate 1v1s and create space that way. Agents like Reyna and Neon should not be classified as duelists but rather another subcategory for initiator. This is the whole point of the duelist class entry/isolating 1v1 (duels). I would like to see many other agents like jett and raze in the duelist class which will also mean way more competition for them, too.
Iso should have had an ability that allows him to escape unfavorable situations. Even Reyna has it. his Q ability is completely useless for a duelist.
Ohhhhhh genius idea
Make so Jett can only dash forward for entry. Taking away how broken she is with OP but being able to entry
u know if they fully nerf their kit more it will be balanced but the fun in them will go away
This is simply not a problem as we all prefer playing these 2 anyway
The games needs more high skill ceiling + movement agents. Not less. As we get more movement agents, sentinels should be buffed to counter.
nah high skill ceiling creates problems in the community. Raze satchel is perfect with this. not very hard to use practically, but its very hard to master, but mastering it doesnt provide too much value
I'm not so sure. The problem isn't that there aren't enough movement duelists, its that none of the other duelists are viable because they don't have movement.
At my elo dive duelist are not a problem tbh there predictable
Maybe a way to have less dominate dive duelist is to have sub categories for other types of agents that have some dive like util but less effective than the duelist?
Omen can do a similar thing to Jett by smoking and tping in, it's a good play but not a replacement for duelists. In general making agents do a lot of things poorly just makes the agent bad, what you want is agents that can do a couple of things very well. The problem for Valorant is that agents like Jett and Raze can do a lot of things very well, their entry power is fine on its own but what makes them OP is that they can use the abilities in basically infinite ways. The solution isn't to make them weaker, they just need to be less versatile.
Thanks for content, TMV! Now I'll go look for Sliggy's opinion on this matter.
I think I love dive duelist as a normal player I like flashy agents like jet and rage it's 100×more fun than neon to play or watch that makes valo diffrent from typical shooting games and trap plays. From recent rage paintshell nerfs and cypher buff it's going to get harder to get entry in split where i already have to deal with viper and now cypher too what am I supposed to do my ranked team are not that cordinated as pro teams this defensive slow meta sucks now to be honest
Puşs y, I can’t even play viper on its fullest potential cuz the round ends in like 10 seconds foh
@@HimmyHendryx you really are bronze dude viper orb hold for entire 20 sec hold and then 2 pit for like 6 each × 2 means your holding literally 32 sec on your own and even if you say you can't get atleast one or two people comming out of your orb or your pit you are dog shit and your wall covers whole mid to A both choke points. With any util on other side you have controlled the whole map
Love your content TMV!
raze kit definitely over tuned. does too much stuff
what you guys thinking of for buffs for the other duelists? like maybe phoenix can throw up his wall thru terrain like harbor
really good points to be honest, i’d like to see jett dash become an ability where you pop it and then like 2 or 3 seconds later it automatically dashes you so you don’t get to just choose when you dash and you also don’t have insta dash-raze is harder to nerf though
Just get rid of her movement affecting others and make it raze only.
Jett would no longer be played and it would ruin the game. It would just become a defender sided meta.
Youre right, we should buff Neon's stamina regen and decrease the decay of it :)
I've thought for a while that Phoenix needs some buffs as well. His molly would be cool if it was an orb he could sneak in, it would block line of sight and then you could also flash out of it. and he should have a Bakugo (my hero academia) movement ability were its a jett pseudo dash but slower/it can curve but leaves his flame wall in its wake
agree with this video, however i dont think the solution is nerfing raze satchels or jett dash, i think they just have to add more agents with versatile movement options. i think avoiding yoru in this video is kind of dumb, since his tp is pretty much exactly this.
the thing is, i dont think its a problem. Having options is important to make the game skill based and less predictable. If you just force neon-like agents, you still have to default to destroy utility before executes, and you don't need the skill of using sachels or dashes in other ways. That just makes the game lame to play and watch, even if its "balanced". Some agents will be better than others, and that's okay. its the player that has to make the best use of them at the end of the day.
if those abilities annoy you guys so much, just go play counterstrike. This may sound sassy, but by now i get really pissed off by everybody hating raze and jett. They are the coolest agents in the game by far and there is nothing more satisfying then flying over a bombsite and killing someone right after. or waiting for the enemy team to rush you and hope that you can dash quickly enough to survive. in terms of balancing i would simply argue that we do not need every agent to be played. why should we want to see for example iso pro-gameplay when raze and jett are just a million times cooler? do we see different utulitykits in csgo? heck no! its the same 4 pieces of util for 20+ years and noone is like "uhh nerve the smoke its way to strong and everebody buys it". I really dont get why everybody thinks that balancing means that every charakter should be equally strong. both teams can pick the same agents so its fair after all. and if some agents are just not as strong as others, I really dont f*cking care. What I do care about though is cool abilities getting nerfed to a point where they just arent fun anymore. Valorant might be becoming a sport but in my opinion it should stay a game as well, and games are supposed to be fun.
1. They can add more movement duelist, or at least space creating duelist.
2. They can consider reworking the existing duelist in a way that their space making capability is almost matched with the dive duelists.
It is important to remember that duelists like phoenix and reyna were released during the launch of the game. Back then, the devs had no idea where the meta was going to shift. It's only after a long time that people realised why dive duelists are the meta.
One rework that I can think of ( I am not suggesting, or saying this will work, just as an example, or thought experiment, I am sure other people can come up with better ideas) is giving phoenix 2 massive mollies, maybe he can put them in palces where he wants only him to have access to, like he can use it to push away the oper in the example you have shown. Or maybe instead, change the firewall to a throwable firewall (like in the cinematics) so he have better freedom to move, or lets say reyna gets a dismiss for free, but there is an animation delay, so she needs to be careful when to use it, or iso gets one sheild for free that doesn't last as long, etc
I am not trying to say any of these would work, I am just trying to point out that they might put some thoughts into this issue, I am sure someone out there has better ideas.
Everything you said was horrible reworks.
@TheGamingg33k I think I made it pretty clear that I am not suggesting any of these reworks or saying they will actually work.
I am just showing one way to approach the problem. I also believe I mentioned someone out there could have better ideas that might actually work.
Read the full thing next time.
The cure is either start to implement ban pick sytem for agent, or introduce a tank class
Honestly i think the Sachel needs a rework and jetts tailwind needs to be changed to where it only moves where your facing. Making it to where if you wanna dash left you have to turn making op with jett harder. And raze sachel tbh idk what the rework would be but it just needs ones cuz no nerf can change all the things it can do without ruining her.
Maybe lower the dash distance of both Jett and Raze? For example if Jett dashes 2 meters, nerf it such that she dashes 1 meter maybe? something like that. In case of Raze, I think either removing one satchel so that she doesnt fly too much might be good? or maybe give her fall damage if she jumps too high? I donno Raze is a bit tough to deal with.
Just take away jetts gun when the dash is primed and remove the ability to destroy util and knockback enemies with satchels
WHAT? that's going to kill Jett on every level and the knockback enemies thing is fine too.
Dumbest take I’ve heard all year.
i think they need to swap jett smoke with her dash. as a result shell have more smokes to outsmart her opponent more often rather than dashing away to avoid her duel like a coward which is not so "duelist" 😂
on the other hand, raze whos also a dive duelist can only get in but cant escape easily so raze mains need to use more brain power. thats way more balanced than jett but shes still one of the top dogs tho
I agree bro but you can't compare pro games to ranked. Ranked is so different. It's like comparing pro nba to pick up lol
my guy dug into the vault for some of these clips omg