Women in the Orthodox Church - Mother Christophora
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- Опубліковано 8 лис 2018
- In this episode, Mother Christophora discusses women in the Orthodox Church.
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This is the third episode from my interview with Mother Christophora, Abbess of the Orthodox Monastery of the Transfiguration in Ellwood City, Pennsylvania.
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Since our Lord has been born by woman , woman’s womb was sanctified . Very nice presentation . Thanks 💕
Thanks to God...glad you found us!
Woman’s womb has never been unholy. For unholy men everyone and everything around them is unholy, except themselves.
The mother is the priest to her children. Such an amazing bit of truth!
What about the father?
@@debrawehrly6900 *cricketsss* fr tho i'm genuinely interested in the answer
Except she is not.
Here in Georgia (country), book readers and singers are often women. I read and sing in the church for years. Thank you for the interview
You are not alone Anna. Here in the US we have women at the Chanter's Stand. However we only have tonsured Readers, of whom I am honored to be one. I am in the Antiochian Church, the ancient church of Antioch.
Mother's description of motherhood brought tears to my eyes! Thank you!
I met mother at the monastery a few months ago, thank you for the video!
Thanks to God...she is a great person!
Actually in my experience most of Orthodox churches I’ve been to have women chantors who sing in the choir during the Divine Liturgy here in US.
Women are not allowed to do the service, it is only for men priests to do this but they have other tasks as singing in choir for example, church cleaning, flower arrangements. It is not at all degrading, everyone knows his/ her place and we do it with a lot of love
Women are essential! Man alone cannot do much without woman's help. I visit a monastery of nuns every second Sunday, and the nuns there are always kind, well organised and extremely smart. Especially now with the COVID-19 situation they organised everything finely, with distances between chairs, and sanitizers. I wouldn't see such planning in a monastery with monks. This difference between man and woman is of unique importance. Woman have attributes that man lack and vice versa. A couple can potentionally become powerful, with the help of God.
I can appreciate the differences between the two sexes, I just don't like the idea of female subordination that most religions endorse
@@debrawehrly6900 Truth is independent of our personal expectation and opinions. Creating a reality according to our desires makes it a fake "reality", a lie. We should embrace reality as it is, for since God is good, His Creation is good also. And not just good, but superbly good. It is us who should amend our view of life to match reality. It is as Epictetus said, "Man is affected not by events but by the view he takes of them". Your comment seems to imply that good is independent of God, but this isn't the case. God is good, he is the transcendent foundation of it. Without God, there is no good or bad. St. Sophrony said, "Pride is trying to imagine a world and live in it. Humility receives the world as God created it". The point is to drop our self-will. Otherwise, endless demands from endless parties occur. All are arbitrary of course, as they are guided by conflicting personal self-wills. Thus, in the absence of God, we are led to relativism and tribalism. My point is, only when we drop secular presuppositions can we make proper sense of Orthodoxy. I hope my response did not tire you 😃
@@lupinthe4th400 That was a beautiful response! God bless you!
Man are also essential, without it there'll be no women, since women create after man.
But if u wanna reject the religious belief, here's a fact, women can't have baby without being fertilized by a man, it need two to make it happend
@@debrawehrly6900 it's always women who "help men" or "assist men" but never the other way around. why? bc men are the leaders and women help. men are doctors, women are nurses. men are bosses, women are secretaries.
What wonderful words of wisdom
Wonderful!
Thanks to God...thanks for the message!
Excellent !
Another excellent episode!
Thanks brother!
My wife refused to do any of those things that you did mention that are gifts of God through women so I had to do it. I taught them to read, write, talk, walk, swim. Taking them to museums and on and on. And we had wonderful times of laughter and joy and fun but my wife just worried about money. I raise them attending liturgy at a monastery but in their later teens they have gone astray, left the faith hate their mother, and hate their Father for not divorcing her.
I pray she repents of her sins and comes back to Christ, prayer and the Holy spirit can soften any heart. It is our job to pray for unbelievers and let the Holy spirit do the rest. Advice them times are becoming dangerous, those who lose their way now may never come back. Life is short, eternity is long. I pray In the mighty name of Jesus your family be healed, that any evil spirit may be lifted of of your family and chained in hell in the name of almighty Jesus.
A lovely video! I spent a month in the cloister of an OCA monastery then a couple of weeks in the visitor's house of another monastery. I'm called to be a semi eremetic NOT in a monastery. Currently, I'm a married ascetic in the high desert of southern Oregon. I'm older (63 and have health issues which would prevent my joining a monastery. I loved visiting and serving as a postulant. God bless you, Mother!
Very good wisdom from this wonderful lady. Glory to God.
Beautiful video. I have had the privilege and joy of visiting this Monastery twice. It’s a truly spiritual and uplifting experience. The nuns are very special servants of our Lord. May God continue to bless them. ☦️☦️☦️
Blessings
True feminism will find it's way back to the ultimate respect for our sex. Our society will place the Mother at the heart of matters.
There is nothing wrong with division of labor when it is used to pull out the indivuals talents of the sexes.
The Christian faith is a patriarchal faith and society should be headed by men and fathers.
christianity, and other abrahamic religions really, are patriarchal: male dominated
feminism, allows women roles in leadership and allows them to have just as much value as a man.
Unfortunately for you, women like me love being able to get an education and have the ability to help with research and even make new discoveries. we love not being defined by our relationship to a male. we love being able to have careers and make our own income. we love being able to choose when we're gonna get married and who we're gonna be married to. and that's what feminism gave us.
without feminism and only orthodox christian ideals, the west would really be like Afghanistan except monogamous.
@@whereitreallycounts36 enjoy the cats and boxed whine lady. Your ego is your down fall. No humility in modern women. Further, without the patriarchy you would starve so maybe show some respect for the men who feed and clothe you keep the lights on and keep your toilet working.
@@whereitreallycounts36 Seems the comment filter (probably programed by a man) is protecting you from my replies. Sad.
Why do feminists never want to go down in the sewers or lay bricks? Always want a cushy "research" job. lol. Also you clearly have no understanding of Orthodoxy.
@@whereitreallycounts36 Seems the fem1n1sts are given protection by the comment filter. Fragile.
ya it was good.. God Bless you +
In you travels if you come thru Baltimore you should talk to Fr. John Voss from Holy Trinity Russian Orthodox Church. He's a wealth of knowledge and a great speaker
Actually Patriarch Shenouda ΙΙΙ in his time here in Egypt was thinking of ordaining altargirls.. it was just a thought tho as much as I remember..
Patriarch Shenouda was really saintly
Women cannot be clergy
No he wasn't if he was considering this.
Amen sister .. !!! YES to ORTHODOX ways of worship . No BS* with faith . AMEN!!!
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Помоги ей Господи на избранном пути.
0:01 Mother Christophora, Abbess of The Monastery of The Transfiguration in Elwood City Pennsylvania. She's been an Abbess for over 30 years.
*Entering an Orthodox Church*
0:47 Noticing The Altar, The Altar Boys.
1:23 Somethings you might miss.
1:55 The Most Candles burn in Front of The Theotokos Icon.
2:29 In an Orthodox Home, will usually have an icon of The Theotokos.
3:02 Women have a gift of God to be
+ Understanding
+ Sensitive
3:25 There is a blending of virtues and characteristics in each one of us.
3:55 A Great Spiritual Sense, Intuition.
*Enter a Church*
4:24 Take a mental photograph
More women or more men?
5:16 Christ accepted women, he loved women.
5:33 Christ waits for each of us.
5:54 Can the women only go so far? Women can be Saints.
6:14 This Nation Needs Saints!
6:34 There's always somebody.
6:51 + Taking our calling seriously.
*Visit A Women's Orthodox Monastery*
7:13 A Matriarchal Society
+ Women, living with women, putting up with women
+ Nuns living together, under the watchful eye of a Bishop, Priests love to come and serve, especially retired priests. 8:40 Fellowship with The Nuns
8:55 Nuns serve in The Altar at Women's Monasterys.
10:15
+ Reading
+ Chanting
like in Parishes
10:34 The Mother of A Family
+ Birthing a child
+ Raising the child
+ Guiding the child
+ Upbringing the child
11:17 "They are too young to speak. Too young to say their prayers."
11:37 Mother's teaching the child how to be Orthodox.
12:03 "I only have as much spiritual authority as that sister will allow me to have in her life." (great words).
12:56 Thank you Herman.
How about making another version of this video with a lay woman's opinion?
:-) -> ua-cam.com/play/PLICaxWzRyjJs6f8ifhkKtRDcEJ9763bMu.html
@@ProtectingVeil I wouldn't consider Frederica a "lay woman".
@@wisewomanhealing why not
@@MrJMB122 Perhaps I don't fully understand the meaning of the word but she is a prolific author/speaker. She is married to a priest. While she of course is NOT a priest she has an insiders view and understanding of things. She goes deeper into Orthodoxy than the average "layperson". I don't consider "layperson" to just be the difference between someone with or without a title. I look at it as a depth of knowledge. If I would sit under that person's tutelage I would not look at them as a layperson. That is my ignorant understanding of it.
👸❤🌎🙏🙏🙏I AM RACHEL HILLA LOVE HAS WON
Women need more Spiritual Directors in today’s society Desert Mother like Mary of Egypt and St Kathrine Egypt Catholics have numerous Women Saints their Lives are strength today for young girls and Adults . Thank you
You also had a woman in the position of Pope at some point in time in the history... ;o)
@@johnnyd2383 You say that like it'sa bad thing. Remember that the last ecumenical council was convened and presided over by the Roman emperor who was a woman at the time.
@@ljss6805 Of course it is a bad thing. Christianity have never had a priestesses. They exist in pagan cults only. Empresses in history are common, on the contrary... not a big deal to see empress on her throne completing her duties which included at the time calling up an Ecumenical Council as well.
@@johnnyd2383 We did have women who were priests, abotts in male monasteries, etc. You've just not been told that part of the story. The communities founded by Paul in Galatia and Phrygia, we are told, even had women who were bishops. Saint Brigit of Kildare and St. Matrona of Perge were both ordained bishops. And Eirene called herself emperor, not empress. Just FYI. Again, a woman presided over the last ecumenical council. Let that sink in. Let a woman do it once and it'll be done for good, apparently.
@@ljss6805 To my dismay, it appears that you are not aware of distinction between clerical ranks/orders and monastic titles, as well as The Church's cannons related to the ordination of the Bishops. I would recommend you to examine both of those topics prior to approaching discussion with other people. In short... both of those cases you mentioned of alleged ordination of women are false. In former case, one Bishop allegedly read prayers applicable to the ordination rite, but that is not sufficient to produce a Bishop. Proper ordination require three Bishops involvement, hence the case is bogus. Later case falls into the same category. Neither of both females were known and seen to serve Holy Liturgy, which is requirement for all ordained clergymen under the threat of deposition. In the end, a lay person - emperor/empress - was always presiding over any council held. Laity is required to participate in the Church's matters and they always have. In the end, they are Lord's anointed ones. All of this fuss you are producing terribly smells on radical feminism that is a work of the unspoken one, who is trying to defile God's Church but in vain. What I can assure all is following - God's Church have never had female clergy and it never will. (period)
The problem with “womens’ role” is not that the woman cannot do what men do, and do it even much better, but that men cannot do what the woman can - give birth, raise and guide new humans. This, however, does not and should not mean that actual motherhood is the primary role of women! Especially in our times, an active and sanctifying involvement in society is an extension of motherhood to humanity as such. The only condition for success, though, is that in every social role in she remains fully a woman, and does not try to do be and do things like men! If the world gets to that point - women being leaders of society while being fully women, the world will be saved!
I disagree. Men are just as capable of raising and guiding their children. We have many stories of men doing so successfully now. And we also have lives of male saints who raised children or of female saints raised by single fathers in excellent ways. What you're saying isn't consistent with the witness of Orthodoxy, which calls both men and women (and all other sexes) to virtue in their pursuits, and virtue knows no gender.
@@ljss6805 There's no such thing as gender, there are 2 sexes male and female, anything other than that is perversion.
God burned Sodom and Gomorrah for a good reason.
It's a woman's role, duty and honor to bear, birth, breastfeed, nurture and raise the children.
No man can do what a woman does, no matter how many exceptions there are, exceptions prove the golden rule period.
It's child abuse for children to be deprived of being raised and nurtured by their own mothers, it's not natural, it's not normal.
The society that we live in does not work, men and women are not happy doing each other's roles, they fail miserably at it. The state raising the children and sending women to work was an evil plan to destroy the family and brainwash the children, now more people are realizing it.
That's why many women are choosing to home school and be home for their children and their family, because it's best for the family.
Can a nun get married? What about a priest or retired priest?
No, monastics, either male or female, ought to keep monastic vows, one of them being chastity. In Orthodoxy there is no Sacrament that would undo monastic tonsure. It simply does not exist.... meaning.. once a monk/nun, always monk/nun. When it comes to the priesthood, one must get married before one's ordination into the clergy, namely deaconate. Sacrament of marriage can not be performed after the ordination. Same applies regardless of one's active or retired status. Retirement does not un-ordinate clergyman. He remains in dignity he held prior to retirement and can perform all duties at the church just as before his retirement: to serve Divine Liturgy, Confessions, Baptisms, etc. Retirement is usually just a relief from pastoral care of the people at the parish and regular schedule of the services... while retired priests come on the occasions and get involved in the services.
It's a woman's role, duty and honor to bear, birth, breastfeed, nurture and raise the children.
No man can do what a woman does, no matter how many exceptions there are, exceptions prove the golden rule period.
Men's role is to Provide, defend and protect the family.
The society that we live in does not work, men and women are not happy doing each other's roles, they fail miserably at it.
Raising children is not daycare or babysitter's job it's the mother's job and mother's role in the family should be respected and revered, it's holy and it's what holds society together.
When women leave home that's when society falls apart.
The state raising the children and sending women to work was an evil plan to destroy the family and brainwash the children, now more people are realizing it.
That's why many women are choosing to homeschool and be home for their children and their family, because it's best for the family.
men can't bear birth and breastfeed because they don't have uteruses or can lactate.
men can and should raise the children they bring into the world. how does it make sense for 2 people to create a human being yet only 1 of them is raising the kid. it takes 2 to make a kid so it should take 2 to raise one. it's the mother's and father's job bc... thats what being a parent is.
the mother isn't doing her "womanly duties", she's being a parent. just as the father should do his parental duties and take care, feed, bathe, and raise the kid he also helped place into the world.
@@whereitreallycounts36 So in your head providing is not part of raising? What do you raise if your kids have no food?
@@arnoldvezbon6131 providing isn't part of raising. simply feeding and bathing the child isn't raising.
raising is the active engagement with the child. reading, playing, teaching, conversing with the child, etc.
as a father, if you get anxious about the idea of spending time with your own offspring, respectively, you prolly shouldn't be having kids.
@@whereitreallycounts36 Ya we can see how good single women are at razing kids from the statistic regarding single mother outcomes. Not good. It is difficult to reply to you since the auto censor does not like the truth. Also what would you know about raising kids? Cats are not children.
@@arnoldvezbon6131
....
so i say that fathers ALSO need to actively engage with the children they brought into this world and you proceed to mention fathers NOT being in the picture are all? once again, are you ok?
I'm saying both fathers and mothers need to raise their children by actively engaging with the children they bring to this world....what are you disagreeing with? what about that statement is making you upset? seriously
I agree on most everything, but I do think some churches are a little too traditional in that they should allow women to be chanters and readers- two things that aren’t technically for only men, but become so engrained that the entire church believes that only men can be at the front serving and teaching. As Mother Christopher’s said, there are mostly (but not always) more women than men in church, so it would be cool if as women we could have that opportunity also... (I say this because I personally would like to- if for only 1 day)
That would be a bad mistake for many reasons, but primarily because it would be disobedient to God for women to serve in the altar. Patriarchy not just a tradition, but a commandment that in church women are to be quiet and not to teach or usurp authority over men. As well, in the home, men are to lead in the home (with the godly wife ruling equally in her role). Eve was deceived in the transgression while Adam was not deceived, hence God made part of Eve's punishment that she would be in subjection to the man. But God greatly honored women through the Virgin Mary, etc.
One of the main causes for the world being so "up-side-down" and backwards today is due to women having left their God-given place in the home, primarily. If you read Scriptures, we are clearly instructed that the older women are to teach the younger and set example for them. And the Apostle Paul writes that young women should marry, bear children, keep the home, that God's name be not blasphemed (1 Tim. 5:14). You don't see that being practiced much today. And the clothing women wear these days (even to church) is shocking! I think it would be much better to study how to at least look holy if you're going to profess faith in Christ, than to worry about women not serving at the altar! That is a great responsibility even for men. It is not something anyone should take lightly or carelessly!
As the Abbess said, women have a great role to play, a vital role. I would add that they should be the backbone of the family and the church, providing they are faithful, godly, dedicated wives & mothers. As an old saying goes, "The hand that rocks the cradle rules the world." The greatest place of woman's influence is in the home, over all. She does her husband good and he trusts in her, and she loves, corrects and guides her children to God. What could be higher or more wonderful than bringing your own offspring to believe in God, love His house, and grow up to remain faithful to God and serve there?! Our churches would still be full if women were more godly and didn't forsake responsibilities to their husbands and children for a job, glamour, independence and materialism, as we see in abundance, even among Christians. For many it is very hard to obey and live within God-given boundaries, and many, young & old, are perishing because of it.
Serving in the altar is not something you do to have a cool experience for one day in order to satisfy yourself. Whether you serve in the altar or not, it has nothing to do with your spiritual growth or potential. It is an obedience and a service, not a tool. I serve in the altar because I was asked to by the parish priest, not because it entered my head that it would be a beneficial thing for me personally or because I begged the priest to let me. If I was told not to serve I would have no issue with that.
laceygreenwood “adam was not decieved” ughhh conveniently forgetting that adam too ate the fruit. “but eve ate it first!” 🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️ they were both cast of the garden of eden. Stop trying to feel so superior. All sins are equal
@@ameliar6374 Without going into the story of Creation, its not actually true that all sins are equal. That's clearly evidenced by the fact that different sins have different penances.
Unfortunately, I have heard of a Catholic priest making a statement that the only women that he allows up front at the alter are those who ckean it.
“A co-creator with God.” Wow.
The ego of women knows no bounds...
I think it only makes sense for a woman of the church to teach us about the women of the church...
As far as spiritual guidance, women spiritually guide children and men too, who psychologically and spiritually are their children as well. This is why men can hardly do without the women, because they constantly depend on their help. But, alas, instead of presenting women as their actual guides and teachers, men present them rather as “servants and helpers”, which securely gives them not the leading but the subservient status. Like the chair you stand on: it holds you, but is only a tool in your disposal that you use.
Very smart and cunning turn....
In my opinion, the whole topic is a bit off. I mean, it's not about men and women being equal, but about them being complementary. It's not about men being the primary servants of God and women being regarded as some second hand servants of God. In the past, men would go out and hunt and women would cook the meal for the entire family, which does not mean that one is more important than the other in their family. They are equally important, but their role is different according to their own abilities.
In the Eastern Othodox Church men are the only ones that can be ordained because as fathers and husbands their involvement into raising their families is important, but not crucial, whereas mothers are all in when it comes to raising children. Being a priest or a deacon in the Orthodox Church requires a certain independence so to speak from their families, not that they neglect them, but the needs of the community they serve can sometimes come up against the needs of their families. Of corse women often juggle motherhod with demandeing careers, but being a priest is more than a career, is a way of life. That's why bishops are single, for their responsibility to the community they pastor is greater and requires full involvement. In other words, ordainment is a sacrifice more than a privilege.
@@liviuchirila4502 Then allow women to partake in the sacrifice.
@@MegaGraceiscool That is not for me to decide, and actually it is not even for the church to decide. Because this was God's prescription made in the Jewish bible and this tradition was taken by the first Christians in their worship. Maybe, just maybe, it's similar to men not being "allowed" to partake in motherhood. I hope you get the sense of the "discrimination" that's being made here.
Very secular-speak
@@liviuchirila4502 Women and men are just as capable of being parents. The fact that you're using men skirting their parental responsibilities to justify the exclusion of women from ordination to all ranks is perplexing.
I think too much attention is put on women being mothers. Restricting women only to motherhood limits what benefit the church can have.
Only motherhood? Why do belittle this most honorable position? Maybe you need to get rid of that ego of yours.
Yes, I agree - the Church is very practical indeed: it really stands on women, which is why it prefers keeping them down. Otherwise, the building will fall.
This has flavors of subversive ideas. Be on guard brothers.
I beg to differ ...you are saying what you must say. "Neither male nor female neither greek nor jew.." .
Mother Christophora you are side stepping this extremely important subject. What many holy Fathers have in fact written about women in the past should be read by every woman ..not as an argument but as healing and truth. Quietly prayed over. I am sorry you are unable to speak openly or ...well
Peace be with you.
I have read the 7 Ecumenical Councils and it is Very Clear about its vision of women. I notice you are not looking up at the camera very often.
No i did not enjoy this video. We are limiting our life in God .
As a monastic i know this is not a simple Mountain to climb but it IS surely a Mountain and until we with The Lords Help climb it we are not as healthy as we as the Church could and should be. As Orthodox we have to see and recognize the shattered Body of Christ we are now. I pray we in 2019 can speak the the women deaconesses being ordained now by the Pope of the Ethiopian or Eretrian Church as was once done for 1000 years.
Speak please about the place of women in The Orthodox Church which was one with the Roman Catholic until the Great Schism; which Schism has made the health of the Church less.We must call upon the Lord And The Most Holy Theotokos to help us and guide us.
We beg to differ to you. If you were to spend some time with the Orthodox monastics, you would have known that they rarely make an eye contact for the reasons that are related to their life. When it comes to the deaconesses in The Church, we think that adult person can not go back to become infant again. Baby teeth fall of and teeth of adults are grown. Can we take out adult teeth and grow back baby teeth? Isn't that what Orientals are trying to do?
Think you’ve missed the whole point
Thank you for your comment. Saint Syncletica enriches us mightily through her witness. It is brave to speak up. Unfortunately, the nature of patriarchy is the majority of women will agree with Mother Chrystophora because they been brought up within the male lens of what is appropriate for girls and boys, men and women. Those girls and women are taught to understand these gendered divisions as important, as necessary, even in the instance of the Church, as scriptural. As you will know, and wisely declare, these divisions in the Church are human made and not made by God. God made humans, male and female, in God's image. God gave us biological differences to procreate and populate. How we divide the labour, the joys, the roles of the result of that procreation, that parenting role and all else is entirely human made. Men often parent more lovingly, more attentively, more joyously than women. Women often teach their children the rigours of life, the sports, the practicalities more than men. We are as unique and wondrous as God has made us. Degrees of role division within the Church are indicative of leadership roles adopted by men in societies of an age when social and gender division was custom. That is actually what we see now in the Church: Custom and culture not ecclesiastical truth. And sadly, this custom has hurt the Church more than most will admit. In a thousand years, history will recount the mass exodus and decline of the Church. Perhaps they will understand then that one half of God's creation cannot lead all of God's creation without repercussions for all humanity. And for Christ's Church. So those of us women within the Church, as monastics, and those within the Church as lay, as readers, as chanters, some as deacons, we are beholden to pray for the Church for every condition, concerning every condition, and in every condition. Yes, it is important for our beloved Church to have counter narratives for girls and women that scripture provides us in abundance but most important, we must pray. Keep that prayer for illumination of the Church on your heart syncletica. The Holy Spirit, who is even now reviving Christ's Church, will make right human error, bring to confession and repentance its Church - as we do see all over the world - and restore and redeem the Church in righteous glory led by clerics, monastics and lay of both sexes. Yes, the Holy Spirit will bring about a Church that includes, reaches and witnesses to all persons believing of our Lord and Saviour's mercy and saving truths. Let us pray, Lord have mercy.
Lets take a look at the secular society for an example as to what happens when you let women be in charge. Not good. Good Christian women need to be humble not prideful like you would want them to be. Pure spiritual poison. This is literally the argument of the serpent in the garden
@@WomenInChurch-fn7ye Yes because men know what is appropriate and women don't. Jezebel!