I like the 32s. I have an old Iver Johnson 32 S&W (same model as the one used to assassinate McKinley) and I load both smokeless and BP ammo for it. I generally use a 90 grain RNFP I cast of 20:1 from a Lyman mould, lubed with "Crisco" & beeswax, and either Goex 3F or Titegroup. Mild, accurate, and about as effective as a 22 Short high velocity.
I've got an six-shot H&R from roughly 1898, black powder only -- but chambered for .32 S&W Long or .32 H&R black powder (not the same as the modern .32 H&R Magnum, length between the short and long Smith rounds). I've got 7.5 grains by volume of American Pioneer Powder under 100 grain wadcutters at present, but I've got a mold for 95 grain semi-wadcutters that should let me get 10 grains or more under the bullet. Switch to 777, and I should get rounds on par with the original folded head black powder Long ammunition and still long-term safe in a BP only revolver. No, not a world-beater for self-defense, but I have a Witness for that.
A tip for those of you new to top breaks, work the break sharp and all the way through or you can end up with shells falling down under the star ejector, if this happens it can become very difficult to remove these shells, depending on your guns tolerances you may have to partly dis-assemble the gun to get to these shells.
One way you might regain some of the power lost with modern solid head cases vs. the 1880s vintage folded head type is to use 777 instead of actual black powder. It has the same kind of pressure curve as black, but it's often recommended to reduced charges (measured by volume to match a given weight of black) by 10% or more. In your case, however, a full modern case of 777 ought to be close to the power of an original folded head case with black powder -- given a slightly compressed load in either case.
I believe you can throw it as fast as the 19.23 foot pounds. That was a pretty awesome test. The first one did pretty good but I believe that second one would just make somebody mad. Still it was a fantastic video I really did enjoy it. I'm sure I told you before but I had a Iver Johnson 32 caliber and it shot smokeless pretty good I believe it was a turn-of-the-century also released around the same time to those Smith & Wesson ones were. Thanks for the video look forward to the next one have a great day and stay safe and keep your powder dry!
Howell makes a 5 shot .32 smith & wesson conversion cylinder for the pietta 1863 Remington style pocket revolver which can be used with modern smokeless .32 smith & wesson rounds which would be neat to see you shoot. I much prefer the smokeless HSM brand .45 colt 200 grain cowboy loads that I shoot with my Howell conversion cylinder in my 1858 to dirty black powder. Redding up my piece is so easy and I’m getting the same power as if I had a 200 grain conical in the percussion cylinder with 30 grains of 3f goex
I love shooting conversions, but don't have the cylinders. The ones I have were manufactured as conversion reproductions. They handle and balance well. Todd
The 1863 Rem conversion cylinders can take it no problem, but the meant for black powder only .31 cal. replica frame is still pretty delicate and easy to stretch and get end shake. DJ
The 1863 Rem conversion cylinders can take it no problem, but the meant for black powder only .31 cal. replica frame is still pretty delicate and easy to stretch and get end shake. DJ@@frontierwesternheritage1356
Expected power factor in the 1800’s was very different. Pocket guns were lucky to approximate .22 lr energy. Belt guns from 1837-1860 maxed out at 200 foot pounds. Horse pistols were the only heavy hitters and they only got as powerful as moderate .357 magnum. In that context, little guns like this would have been plenty handy, even if they rivaled mean-kid-with-dull-lead-pencil levels of power.
A very interesting test, I would not have thought it possible to get such low velocity from that second ,heavier bullet test. Good to see you are back to your old self again Todd. I think the thing that made these small pocket pistols so deadly in the 19 th Century was not the power(or lack of) but the fact that with a contaminated lead bullet anywhere in you, your chance of survival was minimal, so few people would want to take that risk! Stay safe! Chris B.
Maybe you should try some Pyrodex P or especially Hodgdon 777 (ff only) in your .32 S&W Both are more energetic than fff BP (esppecially 777) volume for volume substitution and might just make up for the lack of balloon head case volme. (Don't compress 777 just fill to bullet base.) DJ
I recently inherited my family's S&W 1-1/2 3rd issue single action 32 like yours with the spur trigger. At some point in it's life getting passed through the generations it was mounted on a board and "deactivated" by removing the axis pin and main spring. I've been looking for a beat up donor to take parts from to get my family's one running where did you get yours at?
Steve, I searched Gunbroker and found both the one I'm shooting and a parts gun that didn't lock up properly but had all the parts. They're out there. You just need to confirm which parts are broken. My parts gun didn't have a solid latch on the top break, but the rest was fine. Even though some folks ask for a crazy price, you can find something reasonable. They're not rare. Good luck, Todd
You might get a better result with less powder. I think thats a classic case of over compression of the charge. It's preventing a clean burn of the charge.
Hey Doc, what were you able to find for 32 S&w dies? Seems like the 32 S&W long dies would not be able to crimp adequately, or is crimping not required?
Now you've enticed me to waste my time in a whole new way: the recreation of baloon-headed cartridge cases. I have seen in some modern semiauto cases a groove in the face of the head at the bottom of the powder chamber. I don't remember what brand or what caliber, it was probably a .40 or .45. I smiled and thought there was nothing new under the soon, a somewhat mini-baloon-headed case. I don't know if they were just trying to save brass or were trying to reduce pressure. With low pressure cartridges like you are using, you sure don't need a solid head. Old Elmer Keith used to list one load for baloon-head and another for solid-head cases in cartridges like 44 Special. It should be simple to make a two-pronged tool from a standard twist drill, then use a split bushing and a 5C collet or one of Lee's holders for case length facing to hold them. Then a drill press and we're off to a whole new adventure! Surely someone has thought of this before?
MK, Surprisingly, the .22 long rifle can deliver energies from 90 foot pounds to 120. The best I could do with the .32 Smith and Wesson was 70 foot pounds of energy. So the .22 long rifle cartridge wins the energy test. However, this is only one test rating. Bullet mass and caliber would also play a role. Some day I'll get gelatin and do a penetration and distribution of energy test. Thanks for watching, Todd
I have an Iver Johnson 38; great gun. It’s less accurate with 150 grains, it’s better for hiking. These were clearly the poor man’s answer for self defense.
I like the 32s. I have an old Iver Johnson 32 S&W (same model as the one used to assassinate McKinley) and I load both smokeless and BP ammo for it. I generally use a 90 grain RNFP I cast of 20:1 from a Lyman mould, lubed with "Crisco" & beeswax, and either Goex 3F or Titegroup. Mild, accurate, and about as effective as a 22 Short high velocity.
Have the same model
I've got an six-shot H&R from roughly 1898, black powder only -- but chambered for .32 S&W Long or .32 H&R black powder (not the same as the modern .32 H&R Magnum, length between the short and long Smith rounds). I've got 7.5 grains by volume of American Pioneer Powder under 100 grain wadcutters at present, but I've got a mold for 95 grain semi-wadcutters that should let me get 10 grains or more under the bullet. Switch to 777, and I should get rounds on par with the original folded head black powder Long ammunition and still long-term safe in a BP only revolver.
No, not a world-beater for self-defense, but I have a Witness for that.
@@SilntObsvrtripl7 sw32long rounds threw my gun out of time
@@Eric-s4k How do you know it was the Tripl7 vs. something else wrong with your gun?
Great vid. Love those old top breaks. Looking forward to the next one.
A tip for those of you new to top breaks, work the break sharp and all the way through or you can end up with shells falling down under the star ejector, if this happens it can become very difficult to remove these shells, depending on your guns tolerances you may have to partly dis-assemble the gun to get to these shells.
One way you might regain some of the power lost with modern solid head cases vs. the 1880s vintage folded head type is to use 777 instead of actual black powder. It has the same kind of pressure curve as black, but it's often recommended to reduced charges (measured by volume to match a given weight of black) by 10% or more. In your case, however, a full modern case of 777 ought to be close to the power of an original folded head case with black powder -- given a slightly compressed load in either case.
Thank you for doing this test, I have a similar model in a Iver Johnson that’s made for black powder so this gives me a idea what to expect.
I believe you can throw it as fast as the 19.23 foot pounds. That was a pretty awesome test. The first one did pretty good but I believe that second one would just make somebody mad. Still it was a fantastic video I really did enjoy it. I'm sure I told you before but I had a Iver Johnson 32 caliber and it shot smokeless pretty good I believe it was a turn-of-the-century also released around the same time to those Smith & Wesson ones were. Thanks for the video look forward to the next one have a great day and stay safe and keep your powder dry!
Thanks Terry, I'll try to shoot a smokeless version and see what it does. Todd
Howell makes a 5 shot .32 smith & wesson conversion cylinder for the pietta 1863 Remington style pocket revolver which can be used with modern smokeless .32 smith & wesson rounds which would be neat to see you shoot. I much prefer the smokeless HSM brand .45 colt 200 grain cowboy loads that I shoot with my Howell conversion cylinder in my 1858 to dirty black powder. Redding up my piece is so easy and I’m getting the same power as if I had a 200 grain conical in the percussion cylinder with 30 grains of 3f goex
I love shooting conversions, but don't have the cylinders. The ones I have were manufactured as conversion reproductions. They handle and balance well. Todd
The 1863 Rem conversion cylinders can take it no problem, but the meant for black powder only .31 cal. replica frame is still pretty delicate and easy to stretch and get end shake. DJ
The 1863 Rem conversion cylinders can take it no problem, but the meant for black powder only .31 cal. replica frame is still pretty delicate and easy to stretch and get end shake. DJ@@frontierwesternheritage1356
Friend, Glad to find your channel, enjoy keeping the old timers shooting! Blsgs, gg
Expected power factor in the 1800’s was very different. Pocket guns were lucky to approximate .22 lr energy. Belt guns from 1837-1860 maxed out at 200 foot pounds. Horse pistols were the only heavy hitters and they only got as powerful as moderate .357 magnum. In that context, little guns like this would have been plenty handy, even if they rivaled mean-kid-with-dull-lead-pencil levels of power.
Agreed. Thanks for watching. Todd
A very interesting test, I would not have thought it possible to get such low velocity from that second ,heavier bullet test. Good to see you are back to your old self again Todd. I think the thing that made these small pocket pistols so deadly in the 19 th Century was not the power(or lack of) but the fact that with a contaminated lead bullet anywhere in you, your chance of survival was minimal, so few people would want to take that risk! Stay safe! Chris B.
I've been pulling 32 ACP, reloading with 3f , and seating bullet, seems to work well,
Thanks. Enjoy these videos:)
Maybe you should try some Pyrodex P or especially Hodgdon 777 (ff only) in your .32 S&W Both are more energetic than fff BP (esppecially 777) volume for volume substitution and might just make up for the lack of balloon head case volme. (Don't compress 777 just fill to bullet base.) DJ
p.s Might then still be able to avoid going to smokless pressure curves DJ
I like the birds head on that revolver
Lindos revolveres de argentina
I recently inherited my family's S&W 1-1/2 3rd issue single action 32 like yours with the spur trigger. At some point in it's life getting passed through the generations it was mounted on a board and "deactivated" by removing the axis pin and main spring. I've been looking for a beat up donor to take parts from to get my family's one running where did you get yours at?
Steve, I searched Gunbroker and found both the one I'm shooting and a parts gun that didn't lock up properly but had all the parts. They're out there. You just need to confirm which parts are broken. My parts gun didn't have a solid latch on the top break, but the rest was fine. Even though some folks ask for a crazy price, you can find something reasonable. They're not rare. Good luck, Todd
Wish someone would make a light bullet mold for this caliber.
70 or 75 grain bullet…
You might get a better result with less powder. I think thats a classic case of over compression of the charge. It's preventing a clean burn of the charge.
Ive been to this gun range!
It's a fun round to fire
This was fun! Thanks
Kevin, Thanks for watching! Todd
Hey Doc, what were you able to find for 32 S&w dies? Seems like the 32 S&W long dies would not be able to crimp adequately, or is crimping not required?
My tipup I bought for 45$ this year , the fireballs are ridiculous
Got a gallery load there
Now you've enticed me to waste my time in a whole new way: the recreation of baloon-headed cartridge cases. I have seen in some modern semiauto cases a groove in the face of the head at the bottom of the powder chamber. I don't remember what brand or what caliber, it was probably a .40 or .45. I smiled and thought there was nothing new under the soon, a somewhat mini-baloon-headed case. I don't know if they were just trying to save brass or were trying to reduce pressure.
With low pressure cartridges like you are using, you sure don't need a solid head. Old Elmer Keith used to list one load for baloon-head and another for solid-head cases in cartridges like 44 Special. It should be simple to make a two-pronged tool from a standard twist drill, then use a split bushing and a 5C collet or one of Lee's holders for case length facing to hold them. Then a drill press and we're off to a whole new adventure! Surely someone has thought of this before?
How does the energy on the original load compare to 22LR? My guess would be pretty similar.
MK, Surprisingly, the .22 long rifle can deliver energies from 90 foot pounds to 120. The best I could do with the .32 Smith and Wesson was 70 foot pounds of energy. So the .22 long rifle cartridge wins the energy test. However, this is only one test rating. Bullet mass and caliber would also play a role. Some day I'll get gelatin and do a penetration and distribution of energy test. Thanks for watching, Todd
@@frontierwesternheritage1356 Look forward to that. I have seen the 32 long do very well in gel but there is very little out there on the shorts.
I have an Iver Johnson 38; great gun. It’s less accurate with 150 grains, it’s better for hiking. These were clearly the poor man’s answer for self defense.
My bow shoots as fast as the heavy grain bullet. The lighter one had good speed.
85 grain works the best from my experience.
Try 4f with those heavier bullets.
Thanks Mark, I'll try that. I was thinking about saving the heavy bullets for smokeless loads, but 4f might get results. Todd
👌👌
1 grain of Bullseye, not hard on the gun, lots of fun
С патрона 22 LR больше энергии.
True, and a bigger hole. Thanks for watching, Todd
Doctor of Alternative English: "More easy. Break top. Central fire." 🤣🤪😷