@@theoneandonlybosable I was talking about the VA, but I didnt think about them being an AI voice. Feels wrong to completely retract my appreciation, so I’ll put it in a quantum state.
@@theoneandonlybosable I absolutely hate the rise of Ai on UA-cam. I miss UA-cam’s homegrown inde era when it was all everyday people doing their thing. The google buy out came with some cool stuff, but this is just such a different feel at this point.
I wonder a factor of United being able to repair engines on its own with Pratt & Whitney's full approval means that United could replace defective parts at its major maintenance bases in San Francisco and Indianapolis (for starters!). Delta Airlines services all the jet engines of the airline fleet at several maintenance bases, particularly TechOps in Atlanta; they are certified by Pratt & Whitney to do full engin teardowns and upgrades.
I think they did it because the LEAP 1B is in the 737 Max. Imagine now all LEAPs get grounded. All of their small sized domestic planes would be grounded. Now if they have different engines in different airplanes... Similar to splitting CFM56 and IAE2500 in A320 while also having 737 NG
United DOES NOT have a maintenance facility in Indianapolis. They sold that off 20 years ago, among everything else maintenance related they sold off/ outsourced.
United also as a contract with the Air Force to do maintenance on their C-17 Pratt and Whitney engines. Keeping it all PW makes a lot of sense from their logistics and in-house abilities perspective.
Probably someone at PW promised huge discounts and bonuses to someone in UA, in exchange for public support by ordering those engines in such hard times for PW
I was not surprised about United Airlines choosing Pratt & Whitney engines for their Airbus a321 NEO’s. United Airlines has used Pratt & Whitney engines for decades. The Boeing 747’s, for many years their Boeing 757’s, their Boeing 767’s and many of their Boeing 777’s have used Pratt & Whitney engines.
Very true. Not to mention United and PW are predecessors of the same company. They are only GE heavy because of Continental, and the fact that the 77W is only available with GE's.
All the UAL 757s with Pratt engines were parked years ago. The only 757s they currently operate are the legacy CAL 757s with RR engines. UALs 777 with Pratt engines are so weak on second segment climb the US Department of Defense will not allow those aircraft to be used for military charter. Rather the GE powered 777s are fine for this. Also legacy CAL aircraft.
Historically speaking, United has always used P&W engines. Not to mention the fuel consumption advantages, and their ability to repair future engines it makes sense for them.
It is also worth understanding that with the A320ceo, they were IAE and not CFM. IAE is largely P&W so they were probably able to score a better deal and service contracts.
As long as the issues are resolved soon, plus the fact new gtf engines have gotten better than old ones, this seems like a good decision for operational performance. A good example is the Qantas group where Jetstar needs the simplicity and reliability of CFM while Qantas can bear the cost and go with performance with the gtf like United.
The family factor is part of it. Boeing, United, and PW will forever be related. Even Continental is not a distant relative of United. it is not surprising these two related airlines eventually merged. I hope UA will have better luck than the airlines who bought the early GTF engine units. One airline already went bankrupt because of it.
On E2-195 these work great. quiet and powerful, and no issues so far. But I am not a fan of the loud moaning they make when reducing speed or acellerating.
Not if you ask KLM - they've been struggling with them for over a year, with a magnitude and scale of reliability issues that just don't happen with the good old CF34.
In short terms the reason they chose them is because (For those who Didn't know) Boeing, P&W, and United airlines all originated from United Aircraft company so it would make sense that they stay loyal to each other.
United placed the order in 2023. It is likely they won't receive their planes for a couple of years. I think they were gambling that the issues faced by the GTF engine would be over by the time the plane is delivered, while also being able to leverage the issues the GTF is facing now, into a cheaper purchasing price.
Agreed. GTF issues are being fixed, though it will take a while to clear the current issues. Only time will tell if the issues are permanently resolved.
@rafaelwilks All new technologies have had teething problems to varying degrees. As long as solutions are found, no one in their right mind would shy away from buying new technologies. No plane has fallen out of the sky yet due to the GTF engines. But it is affecting businesses, disrupting schedules too.
@@rafaelwilks Might be true, from recent memory lane. Some of us are old enough to remember lots of other technological nightmares which have stabilised over the decades. If the GTF is not discontinued, then 10 years from now we might be talking about improvements, rather that the disasters that destroyed the Challenger or the European spacecraft that was destroyed after liftoff for using metric and non-metric systems for calculations. That caused a memory overflow and the spacecraft blew up, not able to deal with the figures presented to it. Smart people are finding solutions to issues all the time. Chill out.
The current major P&W GTF issue was due to a contamination metal powder from a supplier. The powder is used to create major turbofan engine parts which also negatively affected other turbo fan engine manufacturers such as GE. The P&W revolutionary game changer planetary gearbox has been flawless. P&W GTF Engines are the most fuel efficient, environmentally friendly and quietest turbo fan engines available today.
United also had problems with the PW engines that they selected for their 777-200 aircraft. The only logical reason has to be money, the same reason why Delta dumped Boeing in 2014;and went with Airbus. Some discounts simply can't be resisted.
@@deanpesci8484Has there ever been fatalities that are the 777 fault?no.have there been crashes where the 777 saves the day with its strong airframe?clearly yes.
@@deanpesci8484 What? There have been 8 hull losses of 777s. 2 were Malaysia Airlines flights that either had a suicidal pilot (really no other explanation) and the other was shot down by a BUK system, no effect from the plane. 3 were lost due to bad landings at Heathrow, San Francisco, and Dubai. The first of these happened in 2008 more than 10 years after the plane's introduction and all at very busy airports. 2 were fires that happened on the ground. 1 was an engine that broke apart. I don't think you can really put any of these mostly on the plane.
The GTF is a better engine. The current AOGs are caused by a supplier quality issue, not a design issue. The replacements will be complete and the engine will generate long term savings for United.
United Airlines is 100% correct in purchasing P&W GTF as current new engines coming off the production lines have significant refinements, improvements and in fact are even more fuel efficient than the earlier produced GFT engines for the A320 series of aircraft.
I think, looking at their decision they took, United were only driven by maximizing their profits. If you look at the gear ratio of the Pratt & Whitney compared to the CFM it was a clear choice that anyone would had chosen for the Pratt & Whitney from a commercial viewpoint. No one could had known back then that Pratt & Whitney engines would had major problems. Some decisions shouldn't be driven by a commercial point of view or the marketing from engine or airplane manufactures. In hindsight United would be better off profits wise with the CFM engines than Pratt & Whitney engines that needed to be grounded.
The engine has to be much cheaper than the CFM option…there’s no way it isn’t cheaper if airlines still continue to choose such an unreliable engine and are not purchasing the one that proves time and time again that it works.
It is not, you are certainly correct. United just is in desperate need for new Narrowbodies because of Boeings delays. Pratt and Whitney just cant produce the engine fast enough.
How many more years will it take to deliver the aircraft with the PW engines compared with CFM Leap? I suppose it's not an issue if United is not in a hurry to get their new planes
Terrible decision. The P&W GTF is basically a good reduction gearbox attached to a bad engine. According to AeroInside, United hasn't had any GE90 engine trouble on any of their B777-200 since 2019, whereas just this year alone, they've had at least three instances of trouble on their PW4000-powered B777 fleet. And don't forget UA1175 and UA328, where their PW4000 engines had fan blades that spontaneously disintegrated in flight.
Because they don’t know the truth behind the PW1000 issues, they’ll learn the leap is just better. Sure it might be a bit more efficient than the leap, but if the plane is actually flying and not on the ground for engine issues, then it will make more money.
All jet engine nacelles have an abrasive layer to protect the inner metal casing from being damaged by the spinning fan. There is very little clearance between the fan blade tips and the nacelle, if its too damaged, the fan blade might catch onto the material and break. I guess the one PW uses is green in colour.
They've been trying to sort these issues ever since it entered service over 7 years ago, and that's a pretty long time for teething troubles to get sorted out 🤔
United has always liked PW over other engines but with mergers they got others and if the plane only comes with another engine it is then they have to change
Let me get this straight: Continental couldn’t affect United’s relationship with PW, yet Continental is to blame for the various problems United faced after the merger?
Do these PW GTF engines use powdered metal for their gears? I recently learned about powdered metal and I don’t think it’s wise to use this technology in high RPM situations.
The CFM engines do not share parts even in CFM-56 let alone the totally different LEAP1A or LEAP1B which are also not common (LEAP1A is larger). New build PW GTF have the problems resolved. Its the past builds that are in shops and holding up aircraft from flying. Equally PW has a lot of upside to better SFC with tech inserts LEAP does not. CFM has had its own issues though not as bad a PW.
Then why are most of the A320neo family aircraft’s with the GTF engines still sitting on the ground? The reason is simple. That flaw is STILL NOT permanently fixed. It has been 8 years since that flaw happened the first time, and nothing was done to fully fix that massive flaw forever.
United should have chosen 737 MAX.the a321neo is so old and its wingtips dont look as cool as the max.plus,the max isnt as bad as they say.i mean they do have max,but they should get a all boeing fleet
Dude what are you smoking? The 737 is way, WAY older than the A320 series plus the Airbus is hands down the better plane, even if you ignore the shit that's going on at Boeing atm.
@@AbdullahNajib-b9z If you don’t know what’s going on at Boeing, you’re living under a rock. Just ask a United 737 Max pilot what they think about having to turn the engine anti- ice off in order to keep the nacelle from failing. Granted, this is a CFM design issue, but as the sole engine for the Max, it’s also a Boeing problem.
@@RobertsonDCCD as for the sole engine issues,a350 also has only one engine option.so does a330neo.and more than 13000 boeings arrive safely without incident everyday.
Dude, 3 videos in 4 hours? You are killing it.
Better help is a scam
These are churned out by AI. Their website also posts low effort AI articles.
@@theoneandonlybosable I was talking about the VA, but I didnt think about them being an AI voice.
Feels wrong to completely retract my appreciation, so I’ll put it in a quantum state.
@@theoneandonlybosable I absolutely hate the rise of Ai on UA-cam. I miss UA-cam’s homegrown inde era when it was all everyday people doing their thing. The google buy out came with some cool stuff, but this is just such a different feel at this point.
I wonder a factor of United being able to repair engines on its own with Pratt & Whitney's full approval means that United could replace defective parts at its major maintenance bases in San Francisco and Indianapolis (for starters!). Delta Airlines services all the jet engines of the airline fleet at several maintenance bases, particularly TechOps in Atlanta; they are certified by Pratt & Whitney to do full engin teardowns and upgrades.
A bit like Delta and Air Canada with the 220 they got the spare engines and the maintenance facility's to keep them going
I think they did it because the LEAP 1B is in the 737 Max. Imagine now all LEAPs get grounded. All of their small sized domestic planes would be grounded. Now if they have different engines in different airplanes... Similar to splitting CFM56 and IAE2500 in A320 while also having 737 NG
United DOES NOT have a maintenance facility in Indianapolis. They sold that off 20 years ago, among everything else maintenance related they sold off/ outsourced.
United also as a contract with the Air Force to do maintenance on their C-17 Pratt and Whitney engines. Keeping it all PW makes a lot of sense from their logistics and in-house abilities perspective.
Cebu Pacific had struck a US$24,000,000,000 deal to purchase over 150 Airbus A320neo aircrafts and opted to choose PW Engines instead of CFM LEAP
Probably someone at PW promised huge discounts and bonuses to someone in UA, in exchange for public support by ordering those engines in such hard times for PW
PW can't give bonuses to UA
@@soccerguy2433 Not to UA but to 'someone' at UA. Get it?
@@soccerguy2433 No but they can bribe.
I was not surprised about United Airlines choosing Pratt & Whitney engines for their Airbus a321 NEO’s. United Airlines has used Pratt & Whitney engines for decades. The Boeing 747’s, for many years their Boeing 757’s, their Boeing 767’s and many of their Boeing 777’s have used Pratt & Whitney engines.
Very true. Not to mention United and PW are predecessors of the same company. They are only GE heavy because of Continental, and the fact that the 77W is only available with GE's.
All the UAL 757s with Pratt engines were parked years ago. The only 757s they currently operate are the legacy CAL 757s with RR engines. UALs 777 with Pratt engines are so weak on second segment climb the US Department of Defense will not allow those aircraft to be used for military charter. Rather the GE powered 777s are fine for this. Also legacy CAL aircraft.
Plus united, Boeing, and p&w all started from the same company are long time ago
Historically speaking, United has always used P&W engines. Not to mention the fuel consumption advantages, and their ability to repair future engines it makes sense for them.
Too bad for UA
It is also worth understanding that with the A320ceo, they were IAE and not CFM. IAE is largely P&W so they were probably able to score a better deal and service contracts.
Wait IAE engines for A320 ceo are simply P&W engines?
@@fotiskantis IAE was RR/PW JV. While RR left IAE years ago, they designed the V2500 with technologies borrowed from the RB211 and the PW4000
@@sbaviationcol So thats why V2500s look alike RB211 but smaller??
@@Wh0s.Sebas27 Yes indeed. The cowl and Fan was designed by Rolls Royce. Hence the appearance and "buzz" sound.
As long as the issues are resolved soon, plus the fact new gtf engines have gotten better than old ones, this seems like a good decision for operational performance. A good example is the Qantas group where Jetstar needs the simplicity and reliability of CFM while Qantas can bear the cost and go with performance with the gtf like United.
United and PW are like a married couple, for the 777, 757/767, 747 and probably any type that has it as an option
The family factor is part of it.
Boeing, United, and PW will forever be related. Even Continental is not a distant relative of United. it is not surprising these two related airlines eventually merged.
I hope UA will have better luck than the airlines who bought the early GTF engine units. One airline already went bankrupt because of it.
On E2-195 these work great. quiet and powerful, and no issues so far. But I am not a fan of the loud moaning they make when reducing speed or acellerating.
Some call it the Wookie sound, others the Whale sound. Either way it’s unmistakable.
Not if you ask KLM - they've been struggling with them for over a year, with a magnitude and scale of reliability issues that just don't happen with the good old CF34.
In short terms the reason they chose them is because (For those who Didn't know) Boeing, P&W, and United airlines all originated from United Aircraft company so it would make sense that they stay loyal to each other.
Personally i love CFM LEAP more
United placed the order in 2023. It is likely they won't receive their planes for a couple of years.
I think they were gambling that the issues faced by the GTF engine would be over by the time the plane is delivered, while also being able to leverage the issues the GTF is facing now, into a cheaper purchasing price.
Agreed.
GTF issues are being fixed, though it will take a while to clear the current issues. Only time will tell if the issues are permanently resolved.
@@mandandi and once these current issues are fixed, new big issues will pop up, since they're Dependable Engines 🤣
@rafaelwilks All new technologies have had teething problems to varying degrees. As long as solutions are found, no one in their right mind would shy away from buying new technologies.
No plane has fallen out of the sky yet due to the GTF engines. But it is affecting businesses, disrupting schedules too.
@@mandandi granted, teething troubles are inevitable for anything new, but the GTF teething troubles are worse than any others.
@@rafaelwilks Might be true, from recent memory lane.
Some of us are old enough to remember lots of other technological nightmares which have stabilised over the decades. If the GTF is not discontinued, then 10 years from now we might be talking about improvements, rather that the disasters that destroyed the Challenger or the European spacecraft that was destroyed after liftoff for using metric and non-metric systems for calculations. That caused a memory overflow and the spacecraft blew up, not able to deal with the figures presented to it.
Smart people are finding solutions to issues all the time. Chill out.
The current major P&W GTF issue was due to a contamination metal powder from a supplier.
The powder is used to create major turbofan engine parts which also negatively affected other turbo fan engine manufacturers such as GE.
The P&W revolutionary game changer planetary gearbox has been flawless.
P&W GTF Engines are the most fuel efficient, environmentally friendly and quietest turbo fan engines available today.
Most of United fleet are powered by Pratt and Whitney
United also had problems with the PW engines that they selected for their 777-200 aircraft.
The only logical reason has to be money, the same reason why Delta dumped Boeing in 2014;and went with Airbus. Some discounts simply can't be resisted.
HUGE problems on the 777. Almost got a lot of people killed in both Hawaii and out of Denver. I wouldnt fly one.
Maybe. But UA has a long history of generally using PW engines. It's also worth noting those 777s were the 3rd and 4th 777s ever built.
@@deanpesci8484Has there ever been fatalities that are the 777 fault?no.have there been crashes where the 777 saves the day with its strong airframe?clearly yes.
@@deanpesci8484 What? There have been 8 hull losses of 777s. 2 were Malaysia Airlines flights that either had a suicidal pilot (really no other explanation) and the other was shot down by a BUK system, no effect from the plane. 3 were lost due to bad landings at Heathrow, San Francisco, and Dubai. The first of these happened in 2008 more than 10 years after the plane's introduction and all at very busy airports. 2 were fires that happened on the ground. 1 was an engine that broke apart. I don't think you can really put any of these mostly on the plane.
@@ryanlittleton5615 Fair enough. However, the newest 777, aside from the X variants, was the 300ER. The GE90 is the only engine option.
Current risk vs long term profits. Risk taking decisions usually benefit long term, but have become rare in over bureaucratic organisations.
why haven't you mentioned the advantages of the planetary gear set that drives the fan on the pratt and Whitney engines.
The GTF is a better engine. The current AOGs are caused by a supplier quality issue, not a design issue. The replacements will be complete and the engine will generate long term savings for United.
Current grounding of those aircrafts are also because of the production flaw.
@@fandom_myway_24 key word: current
United Airlines is 100% correct in purchasing P&W GTF as current new engines coming off the production lines have significant refinements, improvements and in fact are even more fuel efficient than the earlier produced GFT engines for the A320 series of aircraft.
I think, looking at their decision they took, United were only driven by maximizing their profits. If you look at the gear ratio of the Pratt & Whitney compared to the CFM it was a clear choice that anyone would had chosen for the Pratt & Whitney from a commercial viewpoint. No one could had known back then that Pratt & Whitney engines would had major problems.
Some decisions shouldn't be driven by a commercial point of view or the marketing from engine or airplane manufactures.
In hindsight United would be better off profits wise with the CFM engines than Pratt & Whitney engines that needed to be grounded.
The engine has to be much cheaper than the CFM option…there’s no way it isn’t cheaper if airlines still continue to choose such an unreliable engine and are not purchasing the one that proves time and time again that it works.
Just a heads up, United is going to lease CFM LEAP A321neo's (no I don't think its due to the PW engine issues).
It is not, you are certainly correct. United just is in desperate need for new Narrowbodies because of Boeings delays. Pratt and Whitney just cant produce the engine fast enough.
How many more years will it take to deliver the aircraft with the PW engines compared with CFM Leap? I suppose it's not an issue if United is not in a hurry to get their new planes
Terrible decision. The P&W GTF is basically a good reduction gearbox attached to a bad engine. According to AeroInside, United hasn't had any GE90 engine trouble on any of their B777-200 since 2019, whereas just this year alone, they've had at least three instances of trouble on their PW4000-powered B777 fleet. And don't forget UA1175 and UA328, where their PW4000 engines had fan blades that spontaneously disintegrated in flight.
Because they don’t know the truth behind the PW1000 issues, they’ll learn the leap is just better. Sure it might be a bit more efficient than the leap, but if the plane is actually flying and not on the ground for engine issues, then it will make more money.
The GTF advantage is most likely going to fix all those problems by 2026... They know the issues fair and square.
UA also probably also got a better deal to buy those engines over CFM.
United have a long history using PW engines.
for jetblue, united own good they should switch the XLRs engine to CFM
Why do PW engines have a green stripe in the nacelle?
True.
That’s exactly why I hate any PW engines.
All jet engine nacelles have an abrasive layer to protect the inner metal casing from being damaged by the spinning fan. There is very little clearance between the fan blade tips and the nacelle, if its too damaged, the fan blade might catch onto the material and break. I guess the one PW uses is green in colour.
@@magnustan841 yeah but I just hate the color of it
Can you highlight the best major US carrier for shipping your pets in cargo the cost
Pratt & Whitney GTFO...? Dang....
Probably a nice deal. Also the GTF will likely pay off in the long run as these issues will be sorted and it has an efficiency advantage.
They've been trying to sort these issues ever since it entered service over 7 years ago, and that's a pretty long time for teething troubles to get sorted out 🤔
Providing you can keep the PW's running. The company is leasing 35 LEAP equipped 321's in 25. I'm curious to see the outcome.
United has always liked PW over other engines but with mergers they got others and if the plane only comes with another engine it is then they have to change
Let me get this straight: Continental couldn’t affect United’s relationship with PW, yet Continental is to blame for the various problems United faced after the merger?
United was just after lower fuel burn. They burned the stockholders instead. Just lousy management judgement of unknown supply hazards? Or bad luck?
GTF have much lower fuel burn than CFM LEAP, United already maintenance in Pratt less 737 and its superior to LEAP.
GTF - less fuel burn, less noise, and less reliability 🤣
You mean the GTFO....?
Why? Money! They got a deal they couldn't resist.
Excellent analysis here but starting in 2025 the leap versions will come in
Let us see , how they perform
Tax breaks to RTX AND UNITED are a big incentive plus some rebates on volume pur hases from the goverment....!!!
🤣Let’s not forgot United and P&W used to be the same company
Do these PW GTF engines use powdered metal for their gears? I recently learned about powdered metal and I don’t think it’s wise to use this technology in high RPM situations.
P & W sold them cheap, maybe even at a loss. It is always down to money, just like Boeing. (satire)
Airbus
Pratt and Whitney company is pride of Usa empire 🇺🇸absloutly amazing land of immigration most advanced country in the world
The CFM engines do not share parts even in CFM-56 let alone the totally different LEAP1A or LEAP1B which are also not common (LEAP1A is larger). New build PW GTF have the problems resolved. Its the past builds that are in shops and holding up aircraft from flying. Equally PW has a lot of upside to better SFC with tech inserts LEAP does not. CFM has had its own issues though not as bad a PW.
Then why are most of the A320neo family aircraft’s with the GTF engines still sitting on the ground?
The reason is simple. That flaw is STILL NOT permanently fixed. It has been 8 years since that flaw happened the first time, and nothing was done to fully fix that massive flaw forever.
why? america will use american product till boeing doesn't make an actual airframe
If only they could choose good mechanics
I did not know that a graphics card company made jet engines
😂😂😂😂 took me a bit, but I got the RTX reference
United should have chosen 737 MAX.the a321neo is so old and its wingtips dont look as cool as the max.plus,the max isnt as bad as they say.i mean they do have max,but they should get a all boeing fleet
Dude what are you smoking? The 737 is way, WAY older than the A320 series plus the Airbus is hands down the better plane, even if you ignore the shit that's going on at Boeing atm.
@@konni6694 What is wrong with being old?and what problems are at boeing?if you listen to airlive ,youll see airbus suffers just the same as boeing.
and the 737 is only 2 generations older.
@@AbdullahNajib-b9z If you don’t know what’s going on at Boeing, you’re living under a rock. Just ask a United 737 Max pilot what they think about having to turn the engine anti- ice off in order to keep the nacelle from failing. Granted, this is a CFM design issue, but as the sole engine for the Max, it’s also a Boeing problem.
@@RobertsonDCCD as for the sole engine issues,a350 also has only one engine option.so does a330neo.and more than 13000 boeings arrive safely without incident everyday.
Pratt & Rip Me?
Ha.
Has Pratt and Whitney got the same disease as Boeing?
Summary: "Specific reasons why the selection may have made sense for the American carrier can't be identified". Enjoy 7 minutes of your life!
First here
it's Boeing fault 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣