Review: William Steinberg's Command Classics Recordings--Modified Rapture!

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  • Опубліковано 17 гру 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 51

  • @renaudgautier3975
    @renaudgautier3975 8 місяців тому +2

    Another home run! Thanks for featuring both a conductor and an orchestra that have not received their rightful due. And, as well, for giving a shout-out to a city that has
    lived under a cultural shadow for too long.
    I cut many of my listening teeth on Steinberg/Capitol LPs. Gratefully.
    My Steinberg Command LPs have disappeared, so these new releases will be
    welcomed. Also the new RCAs... including the Fiedler one-offs.

  • @robertyanal3818
    @robertyanal3818 8 місяців тому +2

    William Steinberg was a guest conductor for the Detroit Symphony. He came on stage, a little stooped old man, and conducted the first movement of the Brahms Fourth sitting on a stool. For the second movement, he stood up and brought those opening majestic notes forward in a way I still can recall.

  • @2leftfield
    @2leftfield 8 місяців тому +5

    I had many of the Command Classic LPs--in the late '60s they were available as cutouts and so were cheap to acquire. At that time I was studying trumpet with Irving Sarin, who had been principal trumpet in Pittsburgh from the mid-1940's up through 1960. (You can hear his work on Pittsburgh's Capitol recordings, but he is not on any of the Command disks.) He had stories about both Reiner and Steinberg, which I shall not recount here. I of course checked out as many recordings with Mr. Sarin on them as I could (in some cases borrowing his personal disks). Maybe the most remarkable was the original Columbia LP of the Bartok Concerto for Orchestra, recorded shortly after the piece had been written. Columbia did not want to spend money on this newfangled modern music, so they only gave Reiner and the orchestra enough recording time to go through the piece once, with no retakes. It sounds very good.
    C. Robert Fine of Mercury Living Presence fame was indeed the chief engineer for the Command recordings. He used the 35 mm film recorders that he had acquired from Everest, but he did not use the 3-microphone technique he had developed for Mercury. Command Producer Enoch Light told Fine that he wanted a different kind of sound--closer, more involving. Also, the regular hall that the Pittsburgh orchestra played their concerts in at that time was not deemed suitable. So they went to a different hall where the stage was in the middle of the room, and Fine came up with a microphone array that used 6 or 7 microphones to pick up the orchestra. The LPs were mostly mastered by George Piros, who had been the mastering engineer for the Mercury disks as well. The best of the LPs sounded pretty good.

    • @pianomaly9
      @pianomaly9 7 місяців тому

      Enjoy very much hearing about performance and recording history from the folks who were actually there or people who knew them, like yourself.

  • @nattyco
    @nattyco 8 місяців тому +3

    I have one Command LP of Steinberg and after listening to your review I played it last night. It's Brahms 2nd Symphony (PCLS 11002). The sound is just right, good balance of instruments, warm and clear. No shortage of top end, even to my aging ears, so your memory isn't failing you!

  • @guyot1979
    @guyot1979 8 місяців тому +2

    So glad this is getting attention. His son once told me that the elder Steinberg would sit down at the piano with an orchestra score and sight-read a piano reduction. That's some serious processing!

  • @dmntuba
    @dmntuba 8 місяців тому +4

    Pittsburgh symphony has always been a great orchestra & music makers....HANDS DOWN!!!
    Steinberg was just a great all around musican, and his recordings have always been "go to" recordings for me.
    Steinberg was not only devoted to the PSO, but he was also very invested in the city, community, and education. People, do any of you remember the day when conductors lived, shopped, started families, and were involved in their community not only as a cultural leader, but as an active citizen???
    Just wish he had made more recordings with Pitt 👍

  • @megaohmaudio5963
    @megaohmaudio5963 8 місяців тому +3

    I appreciated the sound and recording details you spoke of before getting to the performances (even mentioned the engineer's name!).
    I often listen to the same piece performed by various groups. The performance differences are interesting but I also find the fidelity and recording differences to be equally interesting. I'm a sound/recording/tech nerd so I may be in the minority who find those details fascinating.

  • @DavidJohnson-of3vh
    @DavidJohnson-of3vh 8 місяців тому +2

    I remember those Command lps! On record they had a fine sound.

  • @nicolasbrochet2147
    @nicolasbrochet2147 8 місяців тому +2

    I ordered mine from Presto and I do have the Adeste fideles (20th track of CD 16).

  • @deborahhaines4835
    @deborahhaines4835 Місяць тому

    I heard Steinberg at the Scottish Rite Cathedral in New Castle Pa of all places conducting Mahler’s First with the Pittsburgh Symphony. Late fifties.

  • @lednew2010
    @lednew2010 8 місяців тому +5

    His Brahms cycle has always been a favorite of mine from LP to CD, but I always disliked the slightly "megaphone" effect from 1-2K. I always had to fiddle a bit with the graphic equalizer to get the set to sound right.

    • @thebiblepriest4950
      @thebiblepriest4950 8 місяців тому +1

      Pardon my ignorance, but may I ask what you mean by "1-2K"? Thank you.

    • @lednew2010
      @lednew2010 8 місяців тому +1

      @@thebiblepriest4950 1,000 - 2,000 Hz

  • @bbailey7818
    @bbailey7818 8 місяців тому +1

    In the Lohengrin Act 3 Prelude, Steinberg uses an ending that literally startled me, very loud and something I'd never heard before.
    Fortunately, in the Rhine Journey he uses Toscanini's very musical bridge passage with the "adult" Siegfried music and the end of the duet. Other versions sound like a cd that's skipped ahead five minutes.
    The Nutcracker Arab Dance is yet another more or less modern recording, and these extend into this century, where the tambourine is completely inaudible. Drives me crazy. (A short drive, admittedly.) Its perfectly audible in Stokowski's 1926 recording and Toscanini's 1951 version, yet latterday engineers can't seem to make it register.

  • @duvidl
    @duvidl 8 місяців тому +1

    I remember buying the Bruckner 7th when it was issued on 2 Command Classics discs (along with the G-Minor Overture.) I thought it was one of Steinberg's last recordings before he died, so I question the 1963 date. As I recall, his very last recording, which was made about the same time as the Bruckner, was the Mahler 7th, but that was never released, as far as I know.

    • @geoffreybellah4065
      @geoffreybellah4065 8 місяців тому

      I believe Steinberg’s last recording for Command was the Shostakovich Symphony #1, or it was the last one released by Command before he moved to Boston during which he briefly recorded with the BSO for RCA. I find no evidence that he recorded the Mahler 7th for Command or RCA, although he mentioned a Mahler 10th possibility for RCA before he and the orchestra switched to DGG.

  • @erikhagen1813
    @erikhagen1813 8 місяців тому

    Ah, Steinberg.
    I remember checking out a recording from the Minneapolis Public Library of Buckner's Seventh by Steinberg and Pittsburg. This was my introduction to both Buckner and Steinberg. There are few recordings that hold such warm memories.

    • @erikhagen1813
      @erikhagen1813 8 місяців тому

      Of course I meant BRUCKNER ... neighhhh

  • @jgesselberty
    @jgesselberty 8 місяців тому

    Have the 6 disc set of Steinberg's Beethoven Symphonies and a 10 disc set of Steinberg and the Pittsburgh Symphony on Warner called Milestones of a Conductor. Pretty good listening on both accounts.
    Steinberg put together some very interesting programs for his day. One that I recall that just blew me away, was when he programmed the Bruckner 8th and opened the concert with the massed choirs of Penn State doing the Bruckner Te Deum.

  • @fitterstoke45
    @fitterstoke45 6 місяців тому

    Several of Steinberg's Pittsburgh recordings were issued as Music For Pleasure budget LPs in the UK back in the sixties. as such, the Beethoven Fifth and Sixth symphonies in this box were my introductions to those works, and still sound well. I've bought this box, even though it meant duplication of the Beethoven and Brahms cycles already reissued by DG - a rather cynical ploy on their part, methinks.

  • @ArtKrikorian
    @ArtKrikorian 8 місяців тому

    Perhaps the very first LP recording I ever purchased was Steinberg and Pittsburgh conducting Beethoven's 7th.

  • @rogerwest1207
    @rogerwest1207 8 місяців тому

    Here in the UK many years ago I purchased a mfp (music for pleasure) Steinberg/Pittsburgh recording of Beethoven's 5th, it's on fire a teriffic performance. I have no idea if this performance is available on CD or which version of his recording of the 5th it is, I assume he recorded more than one version.

    • @fitterstoke45
      @fitterstoke45 6 місяців тому

      MFP released Steinberg's mono Capitol recordings of Beethoven's Fifth, Sixth, Seventh and Eighth symphonies in 1965-66. When they started issuing stereo records around 1968, they licensed Steinberg's Command Classics' records of the Fifth, Sixth, Eighth and Ninth symphonies, the latter two as a double LP. If the version of the Fifth you have has a black cover and no coupling, it's the Command version issued in the DG set. If it's coupled with the Eighth and is in mono with a statue on the sleeve, it's the earlier Capitol version. Both are terrific but the Command version is in much better sound. Hope this helps.

  • @HoraceInExile
    @HoraceInExile 8 місяців тому +1

    I found your "phrasing" side comment interesting. I will go back through your extensive video list to see if you've done any talks on sensible terms for analyzing/understanding performances (and therefore recordings). If you haven't done one yet, I vote for it.

    • @DavesClassicalGuide
      @DavesClassicalGuide  8 місяців тому +1

      There's a whole playlist called "Tips on Critical Listening." I'd start there.

    • @HoraceInExile
      @HoraceInExile 8 місяців тому

      @@DavesClassicalGuide Found it! And had a TON of fun finding it. (Lots of great playlists.) Going to dive in starting this evening.

  • @jerrygennaro7587
    @jerrygennaro7587 8 місяців тому +2

    Lucky you (I think). Placed my order months ago and it’s still on Back Order. We all knew that there was an isolated Adeste Fidelis on a Command Christmas LP but not, apparently
    Universal. Interesting that it is printed in the booklet but is not on the CD. What’s the
    chance that Universal will offer a replacement, like Sony did for the big Ormandy Mono box?
    Not holding my breath.

    • @peterkelley7160
      @peterkelley7160 8 місяців тому

      I'm not trying to rub it in , but I ordered my set through Amazon and received it within a week . It would have been sooner had I been a Prime member . Anyway , look into that . Maybe you can cancel the first order.

    • @ericnagamine7742
      @ericnagamine7742 8 місяців тому

      The Adeste Fidelis is on the latest pressings of the box. I got mine from Presto.

  • @viningscircle
    @viningscircle 8 місяців тому

    I had the good fortune to get in a thrift store find the MCA Classics 2 CD set of Steinberg/Pittsburgh of the Brahms symphonies to enjoy.

  • @RModillo
    @RModillo 8 місяців тому

    Command was using Mercury recording hardware (excellent), but lots of multi-miking instead of the 3-mike natural stereo of Mercury.

    • @erikhagen1813
      @erikhagen1813 8 місяців тому

      This was C Robert Fine. I believe it was the 35mm recording equipment that he acquired from Everest Records.

    • @RModillo
      @RModillo 8 місяців тому

      @@erikhagen1813 Ah. Still, similar technology, different miking philosophy.

  • @edfromlongisland2623
    @edfromlongisland2623 5 місяців тому

    I appreciate your review of the Steinberg Box from DGG. I especially enjoy the historical background you provide. I have often wondered why the Pittsburgh Symphony Orchestra lagged in reputation relative to other orchestras. They have always played well and they've had some great conductors! Steinberg's Bruckner 7th on Command was my introduction to that composer and I love the recording. The Beethoven Complete Symphonies is very pleasing. Did Steinberg actually record the Beethoven 9th with Mahler's enhancements to the score? Towards the end of his career, I attended a performance of Berlioz's Romeo et Juliette with Steinberg Pittsburgh Symphony Orchestra at Carnegie Hall. Unfortunately, the auditorium was empty, but the performance was outstanding. I don't see any recordings of the work by Steinberg which is disappointing. I hope that Warner listens to you and issues more of Steinberg's recordings (there is a Bruckner #4). The EMI recordings that I currently have are in serious need of remastering. Thank you for you excellent work!

  • @frankdominicbenke6146
    @frankdominicbenke6146 8 місяців тому

    I think it was about 1969 in the UK when my father purchased the Pastoral Symphony for me with Steinberg and Pittsburg SO. I still have it and was my reference Pastoral as that is how I got to know it and make comparisons with others. It was on the Music for the Pleasure label. I'm not sure if you're familiar with that label on the other side of the pond? I still cherish it.

  • @leedsleeds8091
    @leedsleeds8091 7 місяців тому

    I bought this box recently and I have no issues with the remastering. The sound is remarkable for its age. Furthermore, the missing track has been reinstated so I can only surmise that you received an early review copy before these problems were rectified. I know there was a delay in issuing this box, presumably to rectify the faults.

    • @DavesClassicalGuide
      @DavesClassicalGuide  7 місяців тому

      It was not a "review copy." I bought it like everyone else.

  • @peacearchwa5103
    @peacearchwa5103 8 місяців тому

    All of these were recorded at Soldiers & Sailors Memorial Hall, but not sure whether the Auditorium or Grand Ballroom was used. Worth noting is that although the Bruckner Seventh was recorded in 1963, it wasn't released until 1968 and was the last album released under the Command Classics label. Sometime around 1970, ABC Records must have made a huge batch of Command Classics pressings (on very cheap, noisy regrind vinyl) only to abruptly delete the entire Command Classics label, placing thousands and thousands numbers of these Steinberg PSO albums into stores' cutout bins for extremely cheap prices. (This teenager bought many of these cheap cutout LPs from 1974-76). I don't think Steinberg or the orchestra received any royalty income from this massive "cutout" liquidation.

    • @FrankB1001
      @FrankB1001 2 місяці тому +1

      The Bruckner 7th was recorded in April 1968. High Fidelity had a feature on the sessions. The album was not released until 1970 or so, and unfortunately both Loren Becker and Robert Byrne, the two responsible for the Command sound after Enoch Light left in 1965, had both resigned in late 1968. Who knows what schlep ABC had left to master the Bruckner album. Steinberg enjoyed a close relationship with Light and his successors, but reportedly termed ABC "gangsters" after they gutted the label.

  • @mgconlan
    @mgconlan 8 місяців тому +4

    Your comments on the sonics were disappointing because I've been reading Fanfare reviews of some of the Steinberg Command material as reissued by High Definition Tape Transfers, and their critics have had words of glowing praise for both the performances and the sonics. Unfortunately, High Definition Tape Transfers is a boutique label that charges full price for LP-length CD's, and recently they've stopped issuing physical product altogether and are releasing only as downloads (yuck!) or "streams" (10 times yuck!!!!!). Oh, if only the mavens at DGG had got the High Definition Tape Transfers engineers to remaster this box!

  • @michaelmyers7416
    @michaelmyers7416 8 місяців тому

    I had a few of these on LP when they first came out. I want to comment that at the end of the Rienzi overture. There is one of the biggest breakdowns in ensemble that I have ever heard with an orchestra. I mean it sounds as if the whole string section was lost Without a definite beat. I was just getting into classical at the time and wondered how this could be released with such sloppy playing. Otherwise, I agree with your remarks.

  • @pianomaly9
    @pianomaly9 7 місяців тому

    Another potential ear-opener for me. I had Steinberg on the Pickwick LP's back in the day, first hearings of the Emperor (with Firkusny) and Tchaikovsky 5th. Having hardly anything like a critical ear, I thought they were good, serviceable but not really spectacular performances. Will have to listen again some day. What made me lose interest in him was a review of his Schubert 9th when it came out, panning it "this is the classical recording to buy for your mother-in-law".

    • @steventharp
      @steventharp 6 місяців тому

      That Schubert 9th is now back in print on the RCA box Dave mentioned. For me, it's a fantastic performance with a blazing finale.

  • @petertaplin4365
    @petertaplin4365 6 місяців тому

    Sounds like they might have been 'over-Cedared', to get rid of hiss, sucking the life out if them?

  • @eliasmodernell3348
    @eliasmodernell3348 8 місяців тому

    Dear Dave, watching this vid I got an idea that you may find fun: How about a competition for works that have multiple recordings to decide which is the worst. This idea came to me yesterday when I came across the cover of Steinberg's Mahler 1 on Capitol

  • @bbailey7818
    @bbailey7818 8 місяців тому

    Dave, your memory isn't playing tricks on you. A few years ago I bought copies of the Brahms 1st and 2nd on original Command 35mm lps. The sound of the 2nd especially blew me away. That's not conveyed on these new cds. But nothing I've heard so far really seriously interfered with my listening enjoyment. An upper end boost and some, like the Bruckner 7th, benefit from a volume boost.
    (Henry Wood had recorded the Overture on g minor on 78s and it was ironically one of the few Bruckner items available in those days. I'd never have guessed it was by Anton if I hadnt known ahead of time.)

  • @davidaiken1061
    @davidaiken1061 8 місяців тому

    Sorry to hear that the sonics are problematic on these CD's. Thanks for the warning, Dave. As I vividly recall, the sonics were excellent back in the day when, as a teenager, I heard Steinberg's Command Classics Beethoven and Brahms on 4-track prerecorded reel-to-reel tapes. In fact, that medium, which vanished decades ago, at its best boasted the most vivid and realistic sonics of any medium before or since. Even the best-engineered digital recordings can't quite match the brilliance of 4-track reel-to-reel tapes.

  • @peterkelley7160
    @peterkelley7160 8 місяців тому +1

    Opening the box severely tried my patience . Usually these box sets open like a book , but as Dave pointed out , this box opens like someone enjoying a great yawn . Well , I figured it out without causing any damage ... I was disappointed by the omission of the Christmas track . Be prepared for a reissue in a few years time correcting the blunder.

    • @bbailey7818
      @bbailey7818 8 місяців тому

      Your disappointment, like mine, will be partly compensated by the fact that UA-cam HAS the Adeste Fidelis, in stereo. Just enter the title and Steinberg. Joyful if not triumphant.