@@CollegeFootballHistoryEarly in its history The University of Notre Dame successfully lobbied for a Post Office designated Notre Dame, Indiana. The “city” of Notre Dame includes only the campus. Your first step off campus to the south puts you in South Bend. I should add St. Mary’s and Holy Cross College campuses which are adjacent to Notre Dame also use the Notre Dame address.
I simply cant think of football without these names especially 'Noot' (Bp). their mark on the modern game and play design is indelible. I'd love to see some history videos on the devlopment of play books, routs and defensive schemes etc the whole intellectual side of the game. Loving the coverage keep up the great work man.
Notre Dame vs Army has this feeling of Norse tails, a thing between history & legend. These are undoubtedly real games that happened, but little film exist. The stories of the games were written by poets like grantlin rice. Let's not forget the 24 game was where he compared the ND back field to the four horsemen. Also the 28 game was knee said win one for the gripper later portrayed by Ronald Reagan.
By 1909 Michigan had left the Big Ten. The dispute between Michigan and Notre Dame was about whether certain players being allowed to play in the game between the two teams. Michigan did not return to the Big Ten until about 1918 or 1919.
Gus Dorais, a Chippewa Falls, WI native was the QB at Notre Dame from 1910-1913, he and Knute Rockne helped revolutionize football with the forward pass. In the legendary game against Army, Dorais threw for 243 yds, at the time, an astonishing total.
Fascinating. It had to be quite a sight for those fans in attendance. Army did have an answer, I believe, but there was no way to know this at the time. Since Army’s defensive line was much larger, and Dorias was very small, they could have rushed forward putting pressure on Dorias. When they got to him they could have laid the leather on him and made him less confident in this new attack. My guess is that a well coordinated rush by the Army’s five defensive linemen would have disrupted the timing of Notre Dame’s well rehearsed aerial attack. If there was a pocket he would have been flushed out. I am not sure if he was ever sacked but I am sure the Army lineman were much taller, and with arms up as Dorias was trying to find his receivers there could have been many passes batted down. Of course, this is in retrospect, and pass rushing was unheard of.
How ironic that Notre Dame wanted to join the OG Big Ten in the 1890's, and were refused; yet in the 90's and 00's, the Big Ten would have done anything to get Notre Dame as a member.
Army - Norte Dame game in the mid 1920 when Grantland Rice, the legendary sports writer coin the Norte Dame backfield, “The Four Horsemen. None of the Norte Dame backfield touched the scales above 170 pounds.
The newspaper's statement that Notre Dame was in Notre Dame, Ind. was for all purposes correct. The campus is considered to have as its hometown Notre Dame, Ind. It's an unincorporated city, outside of South Bend's limits. The U.S. Post Office for the college is called Notre Dame, and though its service area is governed by the university, it still functions as city, with the campus police, and a campus-operated fire department. As it is unincorporated, there is no municipal government, but the Census Bureau recognizes Notre Dame, Ind. as a Census Designated Place. Three bar bets you can win are: Name the city Notre is in, name the city the Indianapolis 500 is run in (that's Speedway, Ind.) and name the city the Las Vegas Strip is in (Las Vegas' city limits are drawn to exclude the strip, as a tax break for those poor, struggling owners of casinos.
Oh sir, in terms of pronunciation, you are a man after my own heart. Further, i agree, too many people pnly see issues in the context of the last few years.
I really enjoyed this video! Most informative. Well done! I would suggest only that the narrator work to learn the correct pronunciation of NOTRE Dame. The way he says it is kind of distracting... WTL - UND Class of 1973
1912 Carlisle vs Army with pop warner and jim Thorpe was another look at football rules and heroes ("Ike") play as a linebacker for Army . great book and alot of trick plays.
10:13 The word "huddle" entered the rule book in 1921, so a lot of people assume it hadn't been used until 1920. Actually teams did huddle, they just called it a "conference". "Huddle" was a perfectly fine existing English word that eventually came to be used rather than saying something like, "The team then grouped for a conference." Since there was no rule against huddling, it had probably been done for some years by then, although a referee could decide they were delaying the game illegally. The team entitled to scrimmage the ball could even carry the ball into the huddle, since the requirement that the referee "spot" the ball by placing it as and where it was to be played from was not instituted until, IIRC, the early 1920s. (Waldorf, Bronfield, and Beck, the sources at my fingertips at the moment, are silent on that, so I could be off by a good number of years.) Until then, the linesman would mark the spot with a stick, and it was the offense's responsibility to put the ball down and play it from there. Extreme forms of quick play were possible wherein a tackled ballcarrier could pass the ball as a snap while laying on his back or the like, and the kick forward in scrimmage, as an alternative to the snap, was allowed too.
I can't believe this, but I gotta say something cuz it's driving me nuts! The 'K' is silent. Now I know you know that already, but you're going to insist you don't which is doubly irritating. Like what is it... what do you ka-no, that a ka-night drops his load upon the road before toilets were invented. Or don't Ka-nock it till you've tried it, e.g., ka-nit, ka-nife, ka-nee, ka-nick, ka-not, ka-noll, ka-nuckle, and so on. So gee-wiz, it must be "Noot", oops, oh so it must be Knute! But gotta add I really like that time period cuz they also had names like, Alonzo Stagg, or Fielding Yost and Fritz Crisler. And a hundred more. Really enjoyed the video, thanks for posting it.
The problem is this: ua-cam.com/video/pkVmAiWx8ls/v-deo.html at :38 seconds. Canoot Rockne. That I and years ago I worked with a Knute in my life as an IT Consultant. He was a Canoot and he got fairly irritated if I got it wrong.
WHAT!? I have never heard this before. I saw a reference in a book about an article that referred to "Notre Dame, Illinois" but I could never find the actual source in the newspapers. But ND having a post office.... didn't know that.
@@CollegeFootballHistory I have relatives working at both Notre Dame and Saint Mary's. I'm pretty sure all 3 colleges, including Holy Cross, have Notre Dame addresses.
Probably the McGill-Harvard series would be the most important. Had Harvard been stymied for much longer in looking for rugby competition, conceivably they'd've acceded to play versions of football other college teams were playing, and there's no telling what the IFA game would've wound up looking like. Soccer was catching on as a participant sport with the general public, and it's possible the collegians would've decided to go with that flow -- or it's possible they'd've gone with something like the New York game. Maybe Yale's influence would've led to adoption of the Eton field game.
@@CollegeFootballHistory I'm just this guy, you know? (Hitchhiker's Guide quote.) OK, like you I've been researching this stuff for many years. I guess I was a bit lucky to get in to see David Nelson to talk about the rules. I visited NCAA's and NFSHSA's HQs, only to find out later that the New York Public Library had a slightly fuller collection of Spalding Foot Ball Guides than did NCAA! I took a lot of hand notes, but mostly stored stuff up in my head. I finally worked up the nerve to start playing rugby in 1981 after having watched it played near me by my elders for over a decade. I started coaching children in football (though I have no children myself) in 2007 on what was close to a dare by some coaches on Delphi's single wing, etc. forum. Back in the 1970s I collected all I could of the rules variations being used by minor adult leagues. I visited the Canadian Football Hall of fame and corresponded with Frank Cosentino. I followed minor league men's and later women's football for a few years. However, I don't make UA-cams. My UA-cam channel is mostly of my homemade fireworks. (The other bit is Bob Blumetti doing a ritual.) If I did UA-cams, I might do an analysis of my friend's TV show _Lost_ , which only I understand, but the background info I'd want to include would have too much copyrighted material.
Rockne might have been a great self-promoter, but you can not site the 1940 movie as an example as he was dead when the movie was made. Other than that great video. I am looking forward to the video on the ND-Michigan hate.
Notre Dame was NOT the first - Saint Louis University is credited with throwing the first legal forward pass in college football on September 5, 1906. During a game against Carroll College, Robinson's pass hit the ground untouched and resulted in a turnover. However, Robinson was able to connect on a 20-yard touchdown pass later in the game, and St. Louis went on to win 22-0. -
They were the first to use it as a strategy. Before that day, teams would only use the forward pass as an emergency when they were down in the closing minutes.
It was common for immigrants to 'Americanize" their names. My Grandfather chance the spelling of his last name from a 'Z' ending to a 'S' ending. So I suspect that Knute would have been pronounced with a silent 'K' as common in English such as 'know', 'kneel' and 'knife'.
Good video, but I’ve never heard of NOR-TRE Dame. Maybe you’re meaning to say NO-TRE Dame? 😊 Also, the campus is actually in Notre Dame IN. Kind of like Vatican City is separate from Rome.
I don’t think it was referred to as “Notre Dame, Indiana” at the time. Not sure, but I’d bet that the postal address was South Bend until more recent history.
@@CollegeFootballHistory I can recommend the book "The Real All-Americans," by Sally Jenkins, which is a good read. There are many others. Pop Warner coached the Indians in the early 1900s, and most of the innovations he made to the game were made then.
I'll work on it. I am just starting this channel and in this case, was more worried about using a teleprompter and getting the equipment set, so it's young in the process.
My great grandfather Louis Hickey was the next door neighbor and sponsor of Knute Rockne when he converted to Catholicism, my father met Knute and always yelled “ it’s noot the K is silent “
I grew up in South Bend and Louis Hickey’s story matches what I know. Growing up I never knew anyone in South Bend to pronounce the K in Knute. I knew someone who knew Rockne when she was young. I asked her once if she called him Nute or K-nute. She said she called him Mr. Rockne.
I went to the University of Notre Dame (Class of 1976, same class as Rudy). I know a lot about the 1913 Army-Notre Dame game but yours has been the most informative study of the game that I have ever run across. Thank you very much for the video. P.S. Domers (as we like to be called) generally HATE Michigan. Your video explains one of the reasons why.
The narrator thinks that the school is NORtruh Dame. I don't demand an "o" that is not a U.S. diphthong, nor a French "r", nor Dahm. But how hard is it just to OMIT an r that is not there?! It's like Lawrence O'Donnell's "mara largo". As of the 15-minute mark, Johnston got the name wrong 37 times, and right once, probably a misspeak.
One of the best portrayals of this game is in the Tyrone Power Maureen O'Hara film, The Long Gray Line about West Point trainer Marty Mahar. Mahar's father after the game while counting his winnings from the bet on the "Irish," says to his son, "Let this be a lesson to you, son. Never bet against Holy Mother the Church."😊
Rockne was killed in the crash of a Fokker Tr-Motor. "On the morning of March 31, Rockne and seven other men flew out of the Kansas City Municipal Airport aboard Transcontinental & Western Airlines flight 5. The Fokker F-10A had been inspected a few days earlier by a TWA mechanic who later noted that “the (plywood) wing panels were all loose… and it would take them days to fix it, and I said the airplane wasn’t fit to fly and I wouldn’t sign the log. Nobody was safe in that airplane.” " Apparently the cause was bad glue joints, helping spur the development of all-metal aircraft.
@@jeffah3103Being a life long ND fan and a French student I find myself conflicted on whether to pronounce it in the correct French way or the midwestern way I’m accustomed to 😂
Fred Gushurst, the other Notre Dame end was an integral player in the development of the forward pass. Accounts of the 1913 games state that his receiving of the passes were exceptional. The forward pass was as used in the University of South Dakota vs. Notre Dame in 1913. The South Dakota game was Harper's attempt at a Western game for 1913. He would soon schedule games against Nebraska in Lincoln. Gushurst was a native of Lead, South Dakota. He is a member of the South Dakota Sports Hall of Fame.
Genghis is actually correctly pronunced "Jengis" -- it's closer to the Mongolian (usually written "Chinggis") and "Ge-" words in English usually have a soft 'g' -- Gem, General, Geography, Gesture, etc.
Almost everyone at Notre Dame says “Noot.” While there I was taught that he pronounced it “Canute” but no one else did. However, I’ve never heard “Notre Dame” pronounced “nor-tra” dame before. Where do you get that “r” sound? Very odd. You can put on airs and pronounce it “no-tra dame” or you can pronounce as almost everyone at ND pronounces it, “noter dame.” Nor-tra dame is flat wrong. But I did enjoy your history lesson. I learned some things. Thank you.
Well.... I think years ago there was a Notre Dame guy in my life and I found a way to pronounce it that really irritated him and now it's stuck in my head. Hahahahahah
For those that haven't yet, it's well worth the time investment to go back and watch all the videos in this channel in serial order. Guaranteed you will find out things about early college football you did not know.
The growing realization of AirPower as a weapon of war parallels the aerial offence on the gridiron. I’m sure there was an “aha moment” by army spectators as they saw the future laid out before them.
A video you need to do is on the 1951 University of San Francisco Dons football team. Who, thanks to the racist _s in the southern college football world at the time, did not invite USF to any bowl game. The book on this team: Undefeated, Untied and Uninvited: A Documentary of the 1951 University of San Francisco Dons Football Team
You are right. I will likely always have some level of difficulty here as I have a brain injury from being dead for too long from a heart attack in 2015. Names are particularly challenging!
ND, playing a weak schedule because of the prejudices against them, had been murdering teams all season long before meeting Army. Winning multiple games by scores of 50 and 60 plus points several times. But Army was unaware of this. This is how good an Army team ND beat so baddly that day was: Army in its other eight games would give up only one TD and several FG for 21 total points for the entire season, save for the 35 point butt kicking they got from ND. Army had five shut-outs.
@@CollegeFootballHistory It was originally supposed to be pronounced in the French way: Notra Dom. But the American pronunciation is Noter Dame. "Notra Dame" is incorrect.
From Nebraska's perspective, the 1915 Nebraska-Notre Dame game was significant, much because of Notre Dame's 1913 victory over Army. How about the 1916 Georgia Tech-Cumberland College game? Wish we had video of either of those. Or the 1945 Army-Navy game and the 1966 Notre Dame-Michigan State game. Great job again, Jon. Happy New Year!
The second half of the the 1966 ND-MSU game exists in its entirety, as do both scoring drives that originated in the second quarter. Film footage of the entire game also exists.
This game is covered and re-inacted in the movie "The Long Gray Line, a docu drama about WestPoint." The movie was made in 1955. The movie only has them passing in the second half after being behind at halftime.
The game was just one highlight of the history of West Point in the 20th century as portrayed in this Hollywood version of events. One point it brought out was that one of the Army players was cadet Dwight Eisenhower who just happened to be president when the film came out.
@@thecraigster8888 Yes, in the movie I remember they said of his graduating class that included Dwight Eisenhower: "This is the movie the stars fell on."
Hugely into the early years of the gridiron (the best days of the sport IMO), so I’m grateful for your new channel. I’d love to see some videos on the point per-minute Wolverines, Yost, the dominance of the Maroon’s with Stagg, & the days when Minnesota was a program no one liked to face. The 1870’s-1912 era is the most interesting of all of course. Great channel!
Another person who I feel revolutionized todays football is LaVell Edwards out of BYU. His team won the national championship in the 1984 Holiday bowl. Because if that the NCAA came out stating that national championship games could only be played after the New Year; and BYU was relegated to the Holiday Bowl as the best bowl game they could achieve. So they weren't allowed to play after New Year's day. He went on the have multiple undefeated seasons with multiple one loss seasons. Even had a Heisman winner. There were chances LaVell could have had multiple championships, but was denied of any further opportunity because of the prejudices against him and his team. Then the BCS system came out and no "non-Power 6" was allowed to go to a BCS bowl game. Lavell's team busted that. Because they went 12-0 there was a lot of outrage because they earned the right to go. So a lawsuit was filed and changes were forced to happen.
LaVell Edwards obviously did not invent the forward pass, but he built is offenses around the forward pass. It's not one game, but he changed the thinking that the forward pass was for more than "3rd and long" situations.
Noted. I'll do better in the next Notre Dame video. BTW, If you go through the comments, you'll see people telling me it's either "Noter Dame" or "Notre Dame". Which is it for you?
you'r right i should have researched it a bit...after i wrote the comment i was thinking about brett favre pronounced farv it may be similar to notre dame@@CollegeFootballHistory
On Sept. 5, 1906, SLU's Bradbury Robinson uncorked the first legal forward pass, first misfiring but then connecting with Jack Schneider for a touchdown in a 22-0 win over Carroll
Italian grammar rules: G followed by an I or an E softens the G to sound like a J. Example: George. If an H is placed between the G and the I/E, the G is not softened. Example: spaghetti. People like Marco Polo would have pronounced Genghis like Jen-gis.
I wish you wouldn't keep talking as if "end" and "tight end" (as applies on offense) were synonymous. On these videos you keep "clarifying" by saying something like "ends -- tight ends". No, it's just "end". They can play tight or split from the other offensive linemen. Probably you just don't remember the term "split end", because compared to me you're a youngster. "Split end" has fallen into disuse as a term among offensive ends, in favor of "wide receiver" (although a wide receiver may be a flanker, hence a back, as well), so that the only offensive "ends" nowadays are tight ends -- by naming convention. Similarly, on offense these days people refer only to *interior* linemen (tackle to tackle) as "linemen", while the rule book considers the players on each end of the line (the "ends", whether split or tight) to be line players as well.
Army was in such shock of this game that a hundred years later, the Army still refuses to accept the forward pass' existence.
Good point!
Lol😂
Bravo
😂😂😂
Ha! Well done.
15:28 The University of Notre Dame IS in Notre Dame, Indiana. Most people say South Bend, IN, but the school is officially in Notre Dame.
I did not know this!
@@CollegeFootballHistoryEarly in its history The University of Notre Dame successfully lobbied for a Post Office designated Notre Dame, Indiana. The “city” of Notre Dame includes only the campus. Your first step off campus to the south puts you in South Bend. I should add St. Mary’s and Holy Cross College campuses which are adjacent to Notre Dame also use the Notre Dame address.
I simply cant think of football without these names especially 'Noot' (Bp). their mark on the modern game and play design is indelible. I'd love to see some history videos on the devlopment of play books, routs and defensive schemes etc the whole intellectual side of the game. Loving the coverage keep up the great work man.
Notre Dame vs Army has this feeling of Norse tails, a thing between history & legend. These are undoubtedly real games that happened, but little film exist. The stories of the games were written by poets like grantlin rice. Let's not forget the 24 game was where he compared the ND back field to the four horsemen. Also the 28 game was knee said win one for the gripper later portrayed by Ronald Reagan.
By 1909 Michigan had left the Big Ten. The dispute between Michigan and Notre Dame was about whether certain players being allowed to play in the game between the two teams. Michigan did not return to the Big Ten until about 1918 or 1919.
Liked and subbed. You’re doing a great job here man. I can see the improvement over several episodes.
Keep up the great work.
Gus Dorais, a Chippewa Falls, WI native was the QB at Notre Dame from 1910-1913, he and Knute Rockne helped revolutionize football with the forward pass. In the legendary game against Army, Dorais threw for 243 yds, at the time, an astonishing total.
I would love to hear about the Carlisle Indians and Jim Thorpe from that era.
Fascinating. It had to be quite a sight for those fans in attendance. Army did have an answer, I believe, but there was no way to know this at the time. Since Army’s defensive line was much larger, and Dorias was very small, they could have rushed forward putting pressure on Dorias. When they got to him they could have laid the leather on him and made him less confident in this new attack. My guess is that a well coordinated rush by the Army’s five defensive linemen would have disrupted the timing of Notre Dame’s well rehearsed aerial attack. If there was a pocket he would have been flushed out. I am not sure if he was ever sacked but I am sure the Army lineman were much taller, and with arms up as Dorias was trying to find his receivers there could have been many passes batted down. Of course, this is in retrospect, and pass rushing was unheard of.
How ironic that Notre Dame wanted to join the OG Big Ten in the 1890's, and were refused; yet in the 90's and 00's, the Big Ten would have done anything to get Notre Dame as a member.
Army - Norte Dame game in the mid 1920 when Grantland Rice, the legendary sports writer coin the Norte Dame backfield, “The Four Horsemen. None of the Norte Dame backfield touched the scales above 170 pounds.
The newspaper's statement that Notre Dame was in Notre Dame, Ind. was for all purposes correct. The campus is considered to have as its hometown Notre Dame, Ind. It's an unincorporated city, outside of South Bend's limits. The U.S. Post Office for the college is called Notre Dame, and though its service area is governed by the university, it still functions as city, with the campus police, and a campus-operated fire department. As it is unincorporated, there is no municipal government, but the Census Bureau recognizes Notre Dame, Ind. as a Census Designated Place.
Three bar bets you can win are: Name the city Notre is in, name the city the Indianapolis 500 is run in (that's Speedway, Ind.) and name the city the Las Vegas Strip is in (Las Vegas' city limits are drawn to exclude the strip, as a tax break for those poor, struggling owners of casinos.
Oh sir, in terms of pronunciation, you are a man after my own heart. Further, i agree, too many people pnly see issues in the context of the last few years.
Could you imagine IF an incomplete pass resulted in a turnover today?!
Would definitely be 100% a different game!! Might be fun!!
Last month, I passed through Voss, Norway, birthplace of Knute Rockne.
Jon, great information! I always enjoy your content. Thanks!
Thank you!
I really enjoyed this video! Most informative. Well done!
I would suggest only that the narrator work to learn the correct pronunciation of NOTRE Dame. The way he says it is kind of distracting...
WTL -
UND Class of 1973
A great history of this era is found in “Shake Down the Thunder” by Murray Sperber which recounts the beginning of big time college football!
1912 Carlisle vs Army with pop warner and jim Thorpe was another look at football rules and heroes ("Ike") play as a linebacker for Army . great book and alot of trick plays.
10:13 The word "huddle" entered the rule book in 1921, so a lot of people assume it hadn't been used until 1920. Actually teams did huddle, they just called it a "conference". "Huddle" was a perfectly fine existing English word that eventually came to be used rather than saying something like, "The team then grouped for a conference." Since there was no rule against huddling, it had probably been done for some years by then, although a referee could decide they were delaying the game illegally. The team entitled to scrimmage the ball could even carry the ball into the huddle, since the requirement that the referee "spot" the ball by placing it as and where it was to be played from was not instituted until, IIRC, the early 1920s. (Waldorf, Bronfield, and Beck, the sources at my fingertips at the moment, are silent on that, so I could be off by a good number of years.) Until then, the linesman would mark the spot with a stick, and it was the offense's responsibility to put the ball down and play it from there. Extreme forms of quick play were possible wherein a tackled ballcarrier could pass the ball as a snap while laying on his back or the like, and the kick forward in scrimmage, as an alternative to the snap, was allowed too.
I can't believe this, but I gotta say something cuz it's driving me nuts! The 'K' is silent. Now I know you know that already, but you're going to insist you don't which is doubly irritating. Like what is it... what do you ka-no, that a ka-night drops his load upon the road before toilets were invented. Or don't Ka-nock it till you've tried it, e.g., ka-nit, ka-nife, ka-nee, ka-nick, ka-not, ka-noll, ka-nuckle, and so on. So gee-wiz, it must be "Noot", oops, oh so it must be Knute! But gotta add I really like that time period cuz they also had names like, Alonzo Stagg, or Fielding Yost and Fritz Crisler. And a hundred more. Really enjoyed the video, thanks for posting it.
The problem is this:
ua-cam.com/video/pkVmAiWx8ls/v-deo.html
at :38 seconds.
Canoot Rockne.
That I and years ago I worked with a Knute in my life as an IT Consultant. He was a Canoot and he got fairly irritated if I got it wrong.
Oh, and I'm sticking with *Nute* LOL
Notre Dame has had a US Post Office since 1851. The University is therefore located in Notre Dame, Indiana.
WHAT!? I have never heard this before.
I saw a reference in a book about an article that referred to "Notre Dame, Illinois" but I could never find the actual source in the newspapers.
But ND having a post office.... didn't know that.
@@CollegeFootballHistory I have relatives working at both Notre Dame and Saint Mary's. I'm pretty sure all 3 colleges, including Holy Cross, have Notre Dame addresses.
Great report. Notre rhymes with rotor. ND '92.
Well Done and excellent oration/presentation.
Thank you very much!
You just earned a sub. Great job!
thank you!
Probably the McGill-Harvard series would be the most important. Had Harvard been stymied for much longer in looking for rugby competition, conceivably they'd've acceded to play versions of football other college teams were playing, and there's no telling what the IFA game would've wound up looking like. Soccer was catching on as a participant sport with the general public, and it's possible the collegians would've decided to go with that flow -- or it's possible they'd've gone with something like the New York game. Maybe Yale's influence would've led to adoption of the Eton field game.
Okay, who are you and how do you know all this stuff?
@@CollegeFootballHistory I'm just this guy, you know? (Hitchhiker's Guide quote.) OK, like you I've been researching this stuff for many years. I guess I was a bit lucky to get in to see David Nelson to talk about the rules. I visited NCAA's and NFSHSA's HQs, only to find out later that the New York Public Library had a slightly fuller collection of Spalding Foot Ball Guides than did NCAA! I took a lot of hand notes, but mostly stored stuff up in my head. I finally worked up the nerve to start playing rugby in 1981 after having watched it played near me by my elders for over a decade. I started coaching children in football (though I have no children myself) in 2007 on what was close to a dare by some coaches on Delphi's single wing, etc. forum. Back in the 1970s I collected all I could of the rules variations being used by minor adult leagues. I visited the Canadian Football Hall of fame and corresponded with Frank Cosentino. I followed minor league men's and later women's football for a few years.
However, I don't make UA-cams. My UA-cam channel is mostly of my homemade fireworks. (The other bit is Bob Blumetti doing a ritual.) If I did UA-cams, I might do an analysis of my friend's TV show _Lost_ , which only I understand, but the background info I'd want to include would have too much copyrighted material.
Well done. ‘90 Thanks!
It's not clear that Rockne credited himself with the invention of the forward pass. Films tend to simplify elements of a story.
Rockne might have been a great self-promoter, but you can not site the 1940 movie as an example as he was dead when the movie was made. Other than that great video. I am looking forward to the video on the ND-Michigan hate.
As a coach Rockne needed no self promotion. He lost 12 games in 13 years and had a .881 winning percentage.
Notre Dame was NOT the first - Saint Louis University is credited with throwing the first legal forward pass in college football on September 5, 1906. During a game against Carroll College, Robinson's pass hit the ground untouched and resulted in a turnover. However, Robinson was able to connect on a 20-yard touchdown pass later in the game, and St. Louis went on to win 22-0. -
I covered St Louis in another video on the early foundations of football in this playlist:
ua-cam.com/play/PLAti6r2hzjA0txdecWJeMou5YvFMS24T7.html
They were the first to use it as a strategy. Before that day, teams would only use the forward pass as an emergency when they were down in the closing minutes.
Hope you do a presentation on Friedman who perfected the FP.
It was common for immigrants to 'Americanize" their names. My Grandfather chance the spelling of his last name from a 'Z' ending to a 'S' ending. So I suspect that Knute would have been pronounced with a silent 'K' as common in English such as 'know', 'kneel' and 'knife'.
The R in Notre comes after the T.
Back when you could be 150 lbs and tough and play top level football. Now it's 6 5" 265 or you're too small, unless you run a 4.4
Ohio st vs Mich, had plenty of big games. the blizzard bowl being one of them
I have a book titled Frank Leahy and the Fighting Irish copyrighted in 1947. It had belonged to my grandfather.
What was the betting line that day? And did ND cover the spread?
I will probably get into very little gambling.
Las Vegas did not exist in 1913. There was no "line."
@@mikebronicki8264 I was being satirical. Betting on games was small potatoes then.
@@user-jv9qz2bu1r ok, I missed the sarcasm font. :)
They even made a movie about it 😅
Please, it’s not Norter Dame, it’s No tra Dame.
Good video, but I’ve never heard of NOR-TRE Dame. Maybe you’re meaning to say NO-TRE Dame? 😊 Also, the campus is actually in Notre Dame IN. Kind of like Vatican City is separate from Rome.
There is a “Notre Dame Indiana”.
Exactly. Why he thought that was wrong escapes me.
I don’t think it was referred to as “Notre Dame, Indiana” at the time. Not sure, but I’d bet that the postal address was South Bend until more recent history.
Talking about how to pronounce Knute vs Knute, what about Notre Dame vs Notre Dame vs Notre Dame!
Hail hail to Notre Dame. GO IRISH!!!
This guy can't pronounce Notre.
It's true! I usually say Noter.
No R before the T in Notre.
Noartra Dame?
The Carlisle Indians were doing it years before Notre Dame.
You're the second person who's mentioned this. I am going to have to look into it!
@@CollegeFootballHistory I can recommend the book "The Real All-Americans," by Sally Jenkins, which is a good read. There are many others. Pop Warner coached the Indians in the early 1900s, and most of the innovations he made to the game were made then.
From Knute and Notre Dame to Tom Brady the goat its the Catholics that are always ahead of the curve, do the math.
Norcha Dame
Never mind "Noot" vs. "Ka-noot."
I'd like to know why this guy keeps saying "Nor-tra."
It's a genetic/hereditary issue!
How about the first ‘bowl” game
That one is in the research and development stage. !!!!!
In Mongolia, it's pronounced 'Chinges Khan'
Im still not sold on the forward pass. I think its a fad and will go out of style soon
content: great .....Pronunciation of Notre: needs work.
Anybody complaining about name pronunciation is basically neurotic🤪
I hope your attitude about this catches on!
Can you at least pronounce Notre Dame correctly? How can you tell the history of a team and continue pronouncing the school’s name wrong.
I'll work on it. I am just starting this channel and in this case, was more worried about using a teleprompter and getting the equipment set, so it's young in the process.
@@CollegeFootballHistory No worries, you could do worse. It was a bit jarring to the ear, but your presentation of the history was quite well done.
Thanks for all the history about "Norter Dame".
My great grandfather Louis Hickey was the next door neighbor and sponsor of Knute Rockne when he converted to Catholicism, my father met Knute and always yelled “ it’s noot the K is silent “
I grew up in South Bend and Louis Hickey’s story matches what I know. Growing up I never knew anyone in South Bend to pronounce the K in Knute. I knew someone who knew Rockne when she was young. I asked her once if she called him Nute or K-nute. She said she called him Mr. Rockne.
I went to the University of Notre Dame (Class of 1976, same class as Rudy). I know a lot about the 1913 Army-Notre Dame game but yours has been the most informative study of the game that I have ever run across. Thank you very much for the video. P.S. Domers (as we like to be called) generally HATE Michigan. Your video explains one of the reasons why.
I will examine that hate a lot more later!
Saying your a classmate of Rudy isn’t something a Real alumn would brag about. All alumni Ruettigers the obnoxious alumna.
Hey Jon, it’s NOtre Dame, not NORtre
Dame. Good grief.
@@thomasburns858 well I know that dammit. I’ll try to do better in the future.
We only hate Michigan when we’re playing against them. Of the Big Ten, they’re probably the favorite. I was class of ‘85.
The narrator thinks that the school is NORtruh Dame. I don't demand an "o" that is not a U.S. diphthong, nor a French "r", nor Dahm. But how hard is it just to OMIT an r that is not there?! It's like Lawrence O'Donnell's "mara largo". As of the 15-minute mark, Johnston got the name wrong 37 times, and right once, probably a misspeak.
One of the best portrayals of this game is in the Tyrone Power Maureen O'Hara film, The Long Gray Line about West Point trainer Marty Mahar. Mahar's father after the game while counting his winnings from the bet on the "Irish," says to his son, "Let this be a lesson to you, son. Never bet against Holy Mother the Church."😊
😁
💯
How you pronounce “Knute” wasn’t as annoying as how you say “Nortra” Dame
Rockne was killed in the crash of a Fokker Tr-Motor. "On the morning of March 31, Rockne and seven other men flew out of the Kansas City Municipal Airport aboard Transcontinental & Western Airlines flight 5. The Fokker F-10A had been inspected a few days earlier by a TWA mechanic who later noted that “the (plywood) wing panels were all loose… and it would take them days to fix it, and I said the airplane wasn’t fit to fly and I wouldn’t sign the log. Nobody was safe in that airplane.” " Apparently the cause was bad glue joints, helping spur the development of all-metal aircraft.
One of the coolest channels I've ever found on this site
Thank you for your work preserving football history
Thank you! I'll try to do my best going forward!
In 2023 Notre Dame is still a small school with 8,500 undergrads. Schools like Michigan and USC have 50,000 undergrads
Should be either NotER Dame or NotRA DAHM. But never NotRA Dame! A historian should know that.
NORTRA DAME.
NORTRA DAME.
@@jeffah3103Being a life long ND fan and a French student I find myself conflicted on whether to pronounce it in the correct French way or the midwestern way I’m accustomed to 😂
Strangely, he makes much of whether Knute is pronounced “Kanoot” or “Nute,” but pronounces Notre as “Nortra.”
It hurts to hear it.
Fred Gushurst, the other Notre Dame end was an integral player in the development of the forward pass. Accounts of the 1913 games state that his receiving of the passes were exceptional. The forward pass was as used in the University of South Dakota vs. Notre Dame in 1913. The South Dakota game was Harper's attempt at a Western game for 1913. He would soon schedule games against Nebraska in Lincoln. Gushurst was a native of Lead, South Dakota. He is a member of the South Dakota Sports Hall of Fame.
You give a good bit of history about the University of South Dakota, I have never heard of before. Thanks from western South Dakota.
Genghis is actually correctly pronunced "Jengis" -- it's closer to the Mongolian (usually written "Chinggis") and "Ge-" words in English usually have a soft 'g' -- Gem, General, Geography, Gesture, etc.
I don’t care if kanoot is correct or not. It sounds both ignorant and pretentious - I can’t decide which one more so.
Almost everyone at Notre Dame says “Noot.” While there I was taught that he pronounced it “Canute” but no one else did.
However, I’ve never heard “Notre Dame” pronounced “nor-tra” dame before. Where do you get that “r” sound? Very odd. You can put on airs and pronounce it “no-tra dame” or you can pronounce as almost everyone at ND pronounces it, “noter dame.” Nor-tra dame is flat wrong.
But I did enjoy your history lesson. I learned some things. Thank you.
Well.... I think years ago there was a Notre Dame guy in my life and I found a way to pronounce it that really irritated him and now it's stuck in my head. Hahahahahah
Sure didn't expect to hear cedar point mentioned in this video
For those that haven't yet, it's well worth the time investment to go back and watch all the videos in this channel in serial order. Guaranteed you will find out things about early college football you did not know.
The growing realization of AirPower as a weapon of war parallels the aerial offence on the gridiron. I’m sure there was an “aha moment” by army spectators as they saw the future laid out before them.
This blows my mind! I was just thinking about who implemented the forward pass.
A video you need to do is on the 1951 University of San Francisco Dons football team. Who, thanks to the racist _s in the southern college football world at the time, did not invite USF to any bowl game. The book on this team: Undefeated, Untied and Uninvited: A Documentary of the 1951 University of San Francisco Dons Football Team
Agreed. Nobody knows about this. I barely know about it.
i have a long list to go!
the 69 game between USC and Alabama
1970 and '71.
It's pronounced "Noter" and "Noot." Third generation alum.
Noter? really?
holy cow now i have more to worry about!
Don't worry about it. Just get it correct. The rest of your video was quite accurate. @@CollegeFootballHistory
Thank you for your presentation. Excellent combination of pace, depth, and clarity.
Thank you!
Love the video, but good lord, you really need pronunciation lessons.
You are right. I will likely always have some level of difficulty here as I have a brain injury from being dead for too long from a heart attack in 2015.
Names are particularly challenging!
ND, playing a weak schedule because of the prejudices against them, had been murdering teams all season long before meeting Army.
Winning multiple games by scores of 50 and 60 plus points several times.
But Army was unaware of this.
This is how good an Army team ND beat so baddly that day was: Army in its other eight games would give up only one TD and several FG for 21 total points for the entire season, save for the 35 point butt kicking they got from ND.
Army had five shut-outs.
It's "newt". Love the video & the channel. ps. it's "notre", most people say "noter".... not "noRtre". Keep up the good work.
Look below! There's another dude who says he's a third generation alum and it's pronounced "Noter".
@@CollegeFootballHistory It was originally supposed to be pronounced in the French way: Notra Dom.
But the American pronunciation is Noter Dame. "Notra Dame" is incorrect.
He’s talking about the extra R you’re putting in there. “Nortre”. I agree it was distracting.
But appreciate the video nonetheless. Good research.
@@pbockhorst Yeah.... I will work on that to get better in the future. I am not sure where I got that pronunciation.
From Nebraska's perspective, the 1915 Nebraska-Notre Dame game was significant, much because of Notre Dame's 1913 victory over Army. How about the 1916 Georgia Tech-Cumberland College game? Wish we had video of either of those. Or the 1945 Army-Navy game and the 1966 Notre Dame-Michigan State game.
Great job again, Jon. Happy New Year!
The second half of the the 1966 ND-MSU game exists in its entirety, as do both scoring drives that originated in the second quarter. Film footage of the entire game also exists.
ua-cam.com/video/doZzrsDJo-4/v-deo.html Jon Bois did a pretty good video on Georgia Tech - Cumberland
Knute is pronounced - Noot.
Just like Knight iis Nite
And, Knife is Nife.
it was actually pronounced knute!
This game is covered and re-inacted in the movie "The Long Gray Line, a docu drama about WestPoint." The movie was made in 1955. The movie only has them passing in the second half after being behind at halftime.
The game was just one highlight of the history of West Point in the 20th century as portrayed in this Hollywood version of events. One point it brought out was that one of the Army players was cadet Dwight Eisenhower who just happened to be president when the film came out.
@@thecraigster8888 Yes, in the movie I remember they said of his graduating class that included Dwight Eisenhower: "This is the movie the stars fell on."
The term "docu-drama" is a recent one, so are you sure that was its 1955 title?
Great videos! I would hope one day you do a video about Gil Dobie and his undefeated run at Washington.
Nice video, but learn how to say the name of this story to school. It's not norter dame. It's no-tre dame.
Noted.
Notred?
"Newt. My name's Newt. Nobody calls me Rebecca, except my brother."
My sister insisted it was rock knuteney. Trying to cheat at trivial pursuit.
Hugely into the early years of the gridiron (the best days of the sport IMO), so I’m grateful for your new channel. I’d love to see some videos on the point per-minute Wolverines, Yost, the dominance of the Maroon’s with Stagg, & the days when Minnesota was a program no one liked to face. The 1870’s-1912 era is the most interesting of all of course. Great channel!
Funny you mention this, I will try to get a Yost 1901-1905 video out this week. It was on the list!
Spes Unica!
Ave Crux!
Another person who I feel revolutionized todays football is LaVell Edwards out of BYU. His team won the national championship in the 1984 Holiday bowl. Because if that the NCAA came out stating that national championship games could only be played after the New Year; and BYU was relegated to the Holiday Bowl as the best bowl game they could achieve. So they weren't allowed to play after New Year's day. He went on the have multiple undefeated seasons with multiple one loss seasons. Even had a Heisman winner. There were chances LaVell could have had multiple championships, but was denied of any further opportunity because of the prejudices against him and his team.
Then the BCS system came out and no "non-Power 6" was allowed to go to a BCS bowl game. Lavell's team busted that. Because they went 12-0 there was a lot of outrage because they earned the right to go. So a lawsuit was filed and changes were forced to happen.
LaVell Edwards obviously did not invent the forward pass, but he built is offenses around the forward pass. It's not one game, but he changed the thinking that the forward pass was for more than "3rd and long" situations.
@@kevinblatter2369 Mouse Davis at Portland State was doing that before Edwards
Love your early college football history videos and wish there was more of this on youtube
I'm trying!
The forward pass was not "discovered." The rules were changed to allow it.
Exactly. It was being used back in 1906.
This is all covered in the channel's beginning series - this playlist:
ua-cam.com/play/PLAti6r2hzjA0txdecWJeMou5YvFMS24T7.html
interesting but it's hard to watch with you continualy saying "norter dame"
Noted. I'll do better in the next Notre Dame video.
BTW, If you go through the comments, you'll see people telling me it's either "Noter Dame" or "Notre Dame".
Which is it for you?
you'r right i should have researched it a bit...after i wrote the comment i was thinking about brett favre pronounced farv it may be similar to notre dame@@CollegeFootballHistory
Good history! Enjoyed the presentation. Thank you.
On Sept. 5, 1906, SLU's Bradbury Robinson uncorked the first legal forward pass, first misfiring but then connecting with Jack Schneider for a touchdown in a 22-0 win over Carroll
Wonderful content. So glad I came across this channel.
Why a grate game played with an "OVOID" (not a ball) and mostly with the "HANDS" (few moments with foot), is called "FOOT BALL" ??????
Italian grammar rules: G followed by an I or an E softens the G to sound like a J. Example: George. If an H is placed between the G and the I/E, the G is not softened. Example: spaghetti. People like Marco Polo would have pronounced Genghis like Jen-gis.
I wish you wouldn't keep talking as if "end" and "tight end" (as applies on offense) were synonymous. On these videos you keep "clarifying" by saying something like "ends -- tight ends". No, it's just "end". They can play tight or split from the other offensive linemen. Probably you just don't remember the term "split end", because compared to me you're a youngster. "Split end" has fallen into disuse as a term among offensive ends, in favor of "wide receiver" (although a wide receiver may be a flanker, hence a back, as well), so that the only offensive "ends" nowadays are tight ends -- by naming convention.
Similarly, on offense these days people refer only to *interior* linemen (tackle to tackle) as "linemen", while the rule book considers the players on each end of the line (the "ends", whether split or tight) to be line players as well.