My uncle worked for Leyland Trucks. Talking to him just after the Princess was launched, I was shocked that he totally dissed the car. I expected him to be proud of his own company's products, even it was awful, so the rivalry/distrust/hatred between the various arms was apparent even then.
I think that many factors contributed overall, as noted in other comments such issues as the Unions, internal rivalry, Political issues,missed chances, laziness/ lack of interest in a car once it left their hands, etc. but I think the demise has to be viewed on two levels, that all those issues from 1930s-60s then 60s-90s were the reasons why MGRover would be in a bad situation by the time BMW came,but then the next level is to look at the 90s-06 years,the mini issue etc. crucial to the collapse
The same thing occured to me- GM is now about where BL was in the early 80s- overstretched, complacent, inefficient and in need of complete re-invention. BL came very close to turning itself around once it became the Rover Group- it ditched all but 3 of its brand names, stopped nearly all the badge-engineering and produced several market-leading cars....then BMW came along and torpedoed the whole business just as it was reviving. Moral- don't let any German companies get hold of GM.
To Andrew Lambert : I agree with your comment. I also grew up seeing English cars in Newfoundland in the 1950s and 1960s at the side of the road with the hoods ( boots ) up and not working ! It was a lasting impression I never forgot. Also, one week after the servicemen “fixed” them, they were in the side of the road again. But many English cars did look very good and the interiors were plush. Too bad. A shame.
The danish DOMI ( danish overseas motor import ) used to import the BL products, and was offered the import of Datsun in the start of the 70’s. As usual when dealing with BL, they ordered a batch of cars, and a huge batch of spareparts. Just as usual. When DOMI shut down in the 90’s the Datsun spare parts were still on the shelves. There just wasn’t a need for the parts. With BL there would be a flood of warranty repairs. With Datsun - none.
Mechnight73. Oh so right. The unions have stuffed up Australia big time. I worked for BMC in the 1960s and today have one Austin -Healey BJ8 3000 - bought new in 1967 and restored twice.
Austin Allegro vs Morris Marina which one would i choose as my new car if i was buying one in the 70s. I think i will go for a nice new mk3 Ford Cortina 2000E in Roman Bronze with tobacco vinyl roof and those nice steel sports road wheels.
@ScLeCo Thats true marketing people designed GM cars, that fucked everything up because instead of saying "Well lets do this because it's better" they said "No, lets do this because we'll make more money"
GM USA in particular needs a major cleanout at management level. They still don't listen to what America wants, and when they do, they import it from another GM Division. They killed off Pontiac just when the G8 was turning the company around. The irony is that Holden, the Australian division built it
@fjordland Wow 2 years old :D This is where it gets weird. Ford in the UK was a completely different manufacturer to ford in the usa. Hence why I regard the Capri, escort etc as british cars.
You Gotta Wonder where they can take it from here Ultra High Tech Needs Big Money State Auto Makers. Retro or Stylish Cars are needed too but can the US compete with China and India. Perhaps Referbishment might be a new role for Automakers?
I think Ford at Least are Looking at this problem as they are in a small way getting to touch of Leyland overkill sickness with too many variations on product.
Haha fabulous rota for tea and coffee. Nothing changed all the way to 2005. Still bloated workforce at it's demise. Long live the Longbridge Tea break.
At least ford pulled their heads out of their ass with the homogenization of the better European platform with the US one. If I made less money I would have no qualms driving a focus or fusion, the new ones are quite nice.
@Capitanvolume They ruined the Impala by making it front wheel drive, killed off the Caprice and shot themselves in the foot for the taxi/police market. Now they use an Australian designed and built car to replace it, and try to pass it off as an all American Chevy. Nothing wrong with the Australian Caprice, just that GM USA should be building their own RWD cars
Interestingly enough this has occured again - with rivalry occuring internally between Land Rover And Jaguar now ! - A Jaguar factory employee looks down on a Land Rover employee - and the same goes for Land Rovers thoughts of Jaguar too ! - they still will not share information technically. and cause themselves further delays in fixing issues fast - causing customer dissatisfaction. They will not communicate and share info as one company. They will cause there own demise again !!
@alanridgley - two years ago, I know, but I think you meant pork-barrelling. Gerrymandering is rigging electoral boundaries, not throwing money around.
This part gives the appearance that the American makes had the opposite problems of British makes: American cars would be rebadged two or three times with no mechanical difference between a Chevy and a Pontiac, a Ford and a Mercury, or a Dodge and a Plymouth.
I'm trying to think which BL brands are proportionate to which GM brands, let's try this Morris= Chevrolet Rover= Buick MG= Pontiac Austin= Oldsmobile Jaguar/Daimler= Cadillac Mini= Saturn
@plaidzinc: Yes England is a bit too attractive because they don't treat displaced Human Beings like garbage. It makes the rest of the world look threatening and mean. I don't think people go there for the climate or flash jobs.
@BayAreaOrBust Although not all GM divisions are that bad. The US management ought to be strung up by their balls. Holden, their Australian division while they made mistakes like any other manufacturer, learned from them, and still turn out world class cars
@@nevillewran4083 Because the so called management had no idea what Holden stood for. GM doesn't get it that if given the choice America and Australia would prefer rear wheel drive cars. Yet they seemed to do everything wrong in having a front wheel drive Opel wear the Commodore badge. At the very least, they could have shown some respect and retired that nameplate. Plenty of things the US division could have done instead of sending in "troubleshooters" that had no idea what they were doing.
@@Mechknight73 Holy shit, 11 years. Sometimes YT gets it right. Yes, the front dive car with a Commodore badge was an insult. So was not producing great-handling, reasonably efficient small cars like ford with Focus and Fiesta. Not being able to procure decent 4WDs that could have borne the Holden badge. How did it go so wrong? From Holden shipping cars to the middle east and to the USA to shutting down the factory, Holden dealers and the brand. Wasn't just GM in the USA interfering. Ford USA interfered in Ford Australia, too. AU Falcon design comes to mind. We used to build great cars here.
These cars make me ashamed to be English.Typical English Post war management thinking of the time was that instead of focusing on investing in new technologies and research, management had the post war british empire view that johnny foreigner could never topple us and they stood still as the world rushed past. Land rover and Jag seem to be on the right road now so at least some of the great names live on albeit under foreign ownership. I dont have a problem with that.
It's really too bad. BL could have been great. It offered the widest selection of cars, you literally had something for everyone. I guess there is enough blame to go around, unions, management, goverment, all of them.
"When you see one now, do you feel a sense of pride?"
"I just sorta think, oh mum, is it still runnin?"
I actually think it's kinda cool that the new Fusion & Focus have those Aston Martin-style front ends.
My uncle worked for Leyland Trucks. Talking to him just after the Princess was launched, I was shocked that he totally dissed the car. I expected him to be proud of his own company's products, even it was awful, so the rivalry/distrust/hatred between the various arms was apparent even then.
The Ital was never designed by Ital design, but in the drawing office at Longbrige.
I think that many factors contributed overall, as noted in other comments such issues as the Unions, internal rivalry, Political issues,missed chances, laziness/ lack of interest in a car once it left their hands, etc. but I think the demise has to be viewed on two levels, that all those issues from 1930s-60s then 60s-90s were the reasons why MGRover would be in a bad situation by the time BMW came,but then the next level is to look at the 90s-06 years,the mini issue etc. crucial to the collapse
The same thing occured to me- GM is now about where BL was in the early 80s- overstretched, complacent, inefficient and in need of complete re-invention. BL came very close to turning itself around once it became the Rover Group- it ditched all but 3 of its brand names, stopped nearly all the badge-engineering and produced several market-leading cars....then BMW came along and torpedoed the whole business just as it was reviving. Moral- don't let any German companies get hold of GM.
I grew up seeing English cars being constanly repaired. People got a chock that they didnt need to repair japanese cars so often.
To Andrew Lambert : I agree with your comment. I also grew up seeing English cars in Newfoundland in the 1950s and 1960s at the side of the road with the hoods ( boots ) up and not working ! It was a lasting impression I never forgot. Also, one week after the servicemen “fixed” them, they were in the side of the road again. But many English cars did look very good and the interiors were plush. Too bad. A shame.
The danish DOMI ( danish overseas motor import ) used to import the BL products, and was offered the import of Datsun in the start of the 70’s. As usual when dealing with BL, they ordered a batch of cars, and a huge batch of spareparts. Just as usual.
When DOMI shut down in the 90’s the Datsun spare parts were still on the shelves. There just wasn’t a need for the parts. With BL there would be a flood of warranty repairs. With Datsun - none.
What was the song at 3:14? And why do I swear I've heard it before?
Mechnight73. Oh so right. The unions have stuffed up Australia big time. I worked for BMC in the 1960s and today have one Austin -Healey BJ8 3000 - bought new in 1967 and restored twice.
This story won't be very comforting for you when you see how easy the great names can fall.
Austin Allegro vs Morris Marina which one would i choose as my new car if i was buying one in the 70s. I think i will go for a nice new mk3 Ford Cortina 2000E in Roman Bronze with tobacco vinyl roof and those nice steel sports road wheels.
what is the music during the allegro scene?
@ScLeCo Thats true marketing people designed GM cars, that fucked everything up because instead of saying
"Well lets do this because it's better" they said "No, lets do this because we'll make more money"
Well, at least we know that companies like GM and Chrysler and unions like the UAW aren't just an American thing.
GM USA in particular needs a major cleanout at management level. They still don't listen to what America wants, and when they do, they import it from another GM Division. They killed off Pontiac just when the G8 was turning the company around. The irony is that Holden, the Australian division built it
@fjordland Wow 2 years old :D
This is where it gets weird. Ford in the UK was a completely different manufacturer to ford in the usa. Hence why I regard the Capri, escort etc as british cars.
Anybody know that little song that begins at about 3:11 to 3:12?
You Gotta Wonder where they can take it from here Ultra High Tech Needs Big Money State Auto Makers.
Retro or Stylish Cars are needed too but can the US compete with China and India. Perhaps Referbishment might be a new role for Automakers?
I think Ford at Least are Looking at this problem as they are in a small way getting to touch of Leyland overkill sickness with too many variations on product.
Haha fabulous rota for tea and coffee. Nothing changed all the way to 2005. Still bloated workforce at it's demise. Long live the Longbridge Tea break.
At least ford pulled their heads out of their ass with the homogenization of the better European platform with the US one. If I made less money I would have no qualms driving a focus or fusion, the new ones are quite nice.
@Capitanvolume They ruined the Impala by making it front wheel drive, killed off the Caprice and shot themselves in the foot for the taxi/police market. Now they use an Australian designed and built car to replace it, and try to pass it off as an all American Chevy. Nothing wrong with the Australian Caprice, just that GM USA should be building their own RWD cars
Interestingly enough this has occured again - with rivalry occuring internally between Land Rover And Jaguar now ! - A Jaguar factory employee looks down on a Land Rover employee - and the same goes for Land Rovers thoughts of Jaguar too ! - they still will not share information technically. and cause themselves further delays in fixing issues fast - causing customer dissatisfaction. They will not communicate and share info as one company. They will cause there own demise again !!
Damn you, Top Gear! I now recognise a Morris.
Why?
MINI is awesome. i just wish ti was more reliable . its still fragile
@alanridgley - two years ago, I know, but I think you meant pork-barrelling. Gerrymandering is rigging electoral boundaries, not throwing money around.
This part gives the appearance that the American makes had the opposite problems of British makes: American cars would be rebadged two or three times with no mechanical difference between a Chevy and a Pontiac, a Ford and a Mercury, or a Dodge and a Plymouth.
and the most loved car of englend s here too the morris marina
I'm trying to think which BL brands are proportionate to which GM brands, let's try this
Morris= Chevrolet
Rover= Buick
MG= Pontiac
Austin= Oldsmobile
Jaguar/Daimler= Cadillac
Mini= Saturn
We learned our lesson after the DaimlerChrysler affair. I hope.
my dad owns a triumph TR8 and when he brought it to the town car show it overheated. he just yelled ITS ENGLISH!
@plaidzinc: Yes England is a bit too attractive because they don't treat displaced Human Beings like garbage.
It makes the rest of the world look threatening and mean. I don't think people go there for the climate or flash jobs.
@BayAreaOrBust
for they (the brits I mean) drink their beer in warm condition (and so did I when on visit) I cant tell if they were any good
British Leyland even built refrigirators (saw one at a brit soldiers`kitchen)
That'll be "We Are Family" by Sister Sledge
Ohh the irony!
thank for that Video :))
@hamsterdance4lyf08 Beauty of Hindsight. I often wish We could go back and tell them, just change it a little where ever it kept going wrong.
looks like a case of divided we fail
"...would you like to sleep with the guinea pig?"
Hmm British Leyland is a good analogy for the European Union
Its a very very similar story. Bad cars and powerful unions
It may have been Louis Hamilton?
@BayAreaOrBust Although not all GM divisions are that bad. The US management ought to be strung up by their balls. Holden, their Australian division while they made mistakes like any other manufacturer, learned from them, and still turn out world class cars
Unrealistic to expect you get this reply. And unfair to expect you to know the future. But how things have changed since your post. Holden died.
@@nevillewran4083 Because the so called management had no idea what Holden stood for. GM doesn't get it that if given the choice America and Australia would prefer rear wheel drive cars. Yet they seemed to do everything wrong in having a front wheel drive Opel wear the Commodore badge. At the very least, they could have shown some respect and retired that nameplate. Plenty of things the US division could have done instead of sending in "troubleshooters" that had no idea what they were doing.
@@Mechknight73 Holy shit, 11 years. Sometimes YT gets it right.
Yes, the front dive car with a Commodore badge was an insult. So was not producing great-handling, reasonably efficient small cars like ford with Focus and Fiesta.
Not being able to procure decent 4WDs that could have borne the Holden badge.
How did it go so wrong? From Holden shipping cars to the middle east and to the USA to shutting down the factory, Holden dealers and the brand.
Wasn't just GM in the USA interfering. Ford USA interfered in Ford Australia, too. AU Falcon design comes to mind. We used to build great cars here.
@TheZanipolo It can't be just part of being British, it's happening right now here in America. Otherwise I agree.
i really think america should build simple cars. that one thing they are good at. big simple v8 cars.
anyone getting a sense of deja vu?
Leyland cars certainly have a bad name but not all modern cars are good! Why is it that a Cadillac BLS sells for HALF list price?
@ScLeCo But they had NOTHING on the incompetence of British Leyland!
These cars make me ashamed to be English.Typical English Post war management thinking of the time was that instead of focusing on investing in new technologies and research, management had the post war british empire view that johnny foreigner could never topple us and they stood still as the world rushed past. Land rover and Jag seem to be on the right road now so at least some of the great names live on albeit under foreign ownership. I dont have a problem with that.
It's really too bad. BL could have been great. It offered the widest selection of cars, you literally had something for everyone. I guess there is enough blame to go around, unions, management, goverment, all of them.
chevy vega. ford gave us the pinto. chevy gave us teh fwd citation. what a crap trap that was.
OMG and some ppl still say that italian cars are rubbish, how do they dare open their mouth lol
British cant even make cars, break every week you call that a car? What a joke
British Leyland what happens when monopoly and lack of business regulation run amok.
yep.america is like that
i'm laughing at this
but i don't suppose the people who worked for bl will be
Is it just me, or was British Leyland in the UK that, what the communist party was in Russia????
it's not capitalism i guess
converted gas engines that are now diesel. 1970s cars from america sucked.fiero anyone