Season 2, Episode 4 - When Classics Curdle: Reading Children's Literature that Did Not Age Well
Вставка
- Опубліковано 4 жов 2024
- In this episode, Susan and Susanna discuss their thoughts on teaching children’s literature, particularly older books that have problematic or insensitive content.
So we just finished Robinson Crusoe as the kids wanted to hear the book their favorite poem was about. That was a ride! o.O But I think the rushed ending was what bothered me the most, not the references to the cannibals. "I have just sent to rescue some other's from the mainland, but here's a way out so I'm just going to leave all of them instead of waiting in the bay for another week." He was more dense than anything. :p
I listened to this episode back when it first came out (I love you guys, btw!) and was struck by Susan’s comment about That Hideous Strength by CS Lewis, particularly because I had just finished the second book of that trilogy and absolutely loved them thus far. So this had me very curious going into the 3rd and I will admit, it’s definitely a bizarre book, to say the least - but I still loved it. Though, admittedly it was a little weird to see some parts coming from CS Lewis and I totally get SWBs comment about it.
This video was a very helpful resource to process the book and Susan’s issue that benefited me after reading. Just wanted to share in case anyone else felt the same way!
ua-cam.com/video/lYCg9tmM5rE/v-deo.htmlsi=mv-gyy5xJ6HcyCck
Last year we paired Wilder bo[KS with the Evan Moor history pockets about Native American tribes. It was a great balance for my third grader.
Excellent podcast, thank you. I'll throw in my two cents:
The classics are high quality literature that also provide a glimpse into the morality of the time that they are written. You can get angry at the way people used to think and experience the world, but I really don't see the point. It's more valuable to try to understand why they thought the way they did and how values of society vary and change over time and geography. Early american colonists did not have many experiences and perspectives on different cultures, for example. It's not too hard for a child to understand why they would react with fear to native americans and not think of them as fully human in that context. There is also a lot of antisemitism is the classics, but glossing over it or editing it out, isn't the right thing to do. It's really important that we see these prejudices and think about why they were there and how their effects persist today. I do feel that many homeschoolers go overboard trying to have their children only read books that reflect their own worldview and politics and that is true for both religious and secular homeschoolers. Contemporary historical fiction that tells history the way we want to hear it is en vogue, but the quality of the writing is so poor, I would even say "dumbed down" in an effort to get kids to easily absorb it's simplistic themes.
So well expressed. I also think it's dishonest to pretend that people in history shared our modern day values and virtues or should share our values and virtues. One of my big pet peeves are books set in different times and places, but populated with characters with only our own cultural values. Ma and Pa were on their own, living in a dangerous world. There were conflicts between the Indians and white settlers at that time, and there were few opportunities for them to understand each other. Was it unreasonable for Ma to be afraid? Was it unreasonable for Pa to feel protective of his family? What might have happened if Laura had let the dog loose when the Indians stopped by? In the book, the Ingalls had to get along with these strange people from another culture, and they did. These books are honest, and reflect real people with real attitudes and individual personalities.
I agree that there is little value for children to read preachy 19th century chidlren's books that were intended to teach children the "correct" values and virtues of the time. These books are outdated, but there is very little difference in them and modern day chidren's books that do the same thing with today's "correct" values and virtues and will also be considered outdated in another generation or two.
I read many classic children's books when I was a child, and they opened so many doors to me about different cultures in different times and places and how they impacted the lives of these children. I do think most children are capable of distinguishing between their own culture and the culture of the characters in the books they read, and don't believe that they can or should behave as a child in a historical novel behaves.
By the way, I can now see that my own American childhood culture, with freedom to run around the neighborhood and play without adult involvement, no computers, cell phones, or internet, etc., is gone forever. Hopefully, some great children's books will capture that time for future generations of children and will honestly reflect the values and virtues of that time.
I'm fine with most things in book.i draw the line at the 'n' word. But I don't shy away from real life concepts.
There is a question of hermeneutics here that is important. The radical turn in hermeneutics in the 18th and 19th century seen through the critical Marxist/postmodern worldview is the way most of us learn how to read and interpret a text.
I'm for learning how other people talk and think, rather than conforming all texts to the way I think everyone should talk and think.
Charlie Brown for example presents archetypes of people. They are unkind to each other. Some parents are shocked I encourage my son to watch it.
But as we have more discussions as he gets older, I'm going to have a reference to point too.
For example talking about feminism I might reference Lucy and how she has a lot of conflict between her love for Schroeder and her Women's Lib worldview.
I don't think there is a lot of reasons to sensor ideas from books. But I do believe there are some.