the equation Ramanujan couldn't solve!!

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  • Опубліковано 31 січ 2025

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  • @MichaelPennMath
    @MichaelPennMath  Рік тому +8

    Head to squarespace.com/michaelpenn to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain using code michaelpenn

    • @NH-zh8mp
      @NH-zh8mp Рік тому

      I have a question : let I be a n-rectangle in R^n and f : I -> R be Darboux integrable. Suppose P_m be a uniform partition of I, which means P devises each edges of I to m intervals of the same lenghth. How to show that the Riemannian sum with respect to P_m is convergent to integral of f on I ?
      Please help, thanks.

  • @MathFromAlphaToOmega
    @MathFromAlphaToOmega Рік тому +227

    In fact, it turns out that the Diophantine equation x^2+A=2^n for fixed A has at most 2 solutions, except when A=7. Pretty weird...

    • @bamdadtorabi2924
      @bamdadtorabi2924 Рік тому +12

      Do you have a proof of this fact? I imagine it would use some algebraic number theory for the UFD part of the proof.

    • @franzlyonheart4362
      @franzlyonheart4362 Рік тому +4

      Thanks for that interesting addition. Is the proof as easy as the one shown here, or is it more complicated?

    • @pierrecurie
      @pierrecurie Рік тому +4

      A=0 has an inf # of solutions (n even, x = 2^(n/2))

    • @mrlimemil
      @mrlimemil Рік тому +7

      @@bamdadtorabi2924 It's mentioned on the wikipedia page for this function. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramanujan%E2%80%93Nagell_equation

    • @MathFromAlphaToOmega
      @MathFromAlphaToOmega Рік тому +37

      @@franzlyonheart4362 It's much, much more complicated. There's an article by Beukers titled "On the generalized Ramanujan-Nagell equation", where he proves that there is at most one solution except when A=7, 23, or 2^k-1 for k at least 4. From skimming it, it appears to use a lot of hypergeometric series, p-adic numbers, and factorization in imaginary quadratic fields.

  • @praharmitra
    @praharmitra Рік тому +109

    Ramanujam seems to be the absolute GOAT of making insane conjectures without proof. Most of them end up being proven correct after a significant amount of effort. Really shows how much intuition he seems to have about mathematics.

    • @idjles
      @idjles Рік тому +23

      He probably saw the answers before he finished reading the question, wrote down the answers and went on to something more interesting.

    • @ssl3546
      @ssl3546 Рік тому +26

      And most tragic of all, he was killed by the low quality of early 20th century British food.

    • @extreme4180
      @extreme4180 Рік тому +11

      well in ancient india, ppl used a small blackboard thing called slate to write with chalk which was later rubbed off ..i guess ramanujan used the same for writing proofs and so he erased them...

    • @charleyhoward4594
      @charleyhoward4594 Рік тому +2

      maybe so, but he still couldn't prove them - now could he ...

    • @charleyhoward4594
      @charleyhoward4594 Рік тому +1

      @@extreme4180 guess they couldn't get a piece of paper and pencil, Uh ?

  • @HagenvonEitzen
    @HagenvonEitzen Рік тому +7

    13:24 Well, at that stage, we might still have y + omega = omega^a * omegabar^b and (y + omega)bar = omega^b * omegabar^a for othrecombinations of a and b with a+b = n-2.
    But a short check shows that we must have a=0 or b = 0: If both a and b are positive, then y+omega and y + omegabar are bothis divisible by omega omegabar, i.e, by 2. Then their sum y + omega + y + omegabar = 2y+1 = x is also even. But we already know that x is odd.
    Alternatively, the difference of y+omega and y+omegabar is sqrt(-7), which has norm 7, hence the factors cannot have a common factor of even norm (such as omega or omegabar).
    EDIT: Aha, I startedt commenting just a few seconds too early

  • @franzlyonheart4362
    @franzlyonheart4362 Рік тому +7

    35:40, the k was actually correct, the 2 is incorrect. In the equation right above that, it also says 2, which also is false. That should also be an exponent k, rather than the exponent 2 as written.
    There are quite a few calculation errors in the whole video today! And they're being glossed over, because many steps have been skipped over. Well, it already is a very long video today, so going cleanly through all steps probably isn't UA-cam-friendly.

  • @krisbrandenberger544
    @krisbrandenberger544 Рік тому +2

    @ 27:48 The sum should have a two in the front, and the b_n^k term should be b_n^j.

  • @koenth2359
    @koenth2359 Рік тому +2

    4:00 To me it wasn't immediately clear that for an arbitrary complex number ω the definition Z[ω] = {aω+b with a,b integer} would define a ring.
    E.g. for ω=e^πi/6 and x in Z[ω], Im(x) would always be an integer multiple of 1/2, whereas Im(ω^2) would be sqrt(3)/2. So for this ω, the given definition of Z[ω] would not be a ring, because it is not closed under multiplication.
    For ω = (1+sqrt(7)i)/2 however, we have ω^2 = (-6 + 2sqrt(7)i)/4 = ω-2, so no problem in this special case.
    Also, the assertion that elements have unique factorization is not clear to me. Still any composite integer would factor in more than one way, would'nt it?

    • @reijerboodt8715
      @reijerboodt8715 Рік тому +1

      These are good observations/questions, answered by a first course in ring theory. To help you on your way:
      Let R be a ring without zero-divisors, that is no elements a and b such that a*b = 0.
      1) What we actually mean when we write R[ω] is the set of all expressions of the form a_0 + a_1 ω + a_2 ω^2 + ....., with a_k in R, and where only finitely many of the a_k's are non-zero. This always defines a ring with multiplication given by expanding brackets and collecting like powers of ω.
      2) In the cases where ω satisfies a polynomial equation of degree n, that is P(ω) = 0, this collapses down to { a_0 + a_1 ω + ... + a_{n-1} ω^{n-1} | a_k in R for all 0

    • @koenth2359
      @koenth2359 Рік тому

      @@reijerboodt8715 sorry but i did not mean to ask any questions, it was more a comment on the way it was presented.

    • @Sandsteine
      @Sandsteine Рік тому

      The comment i searched for

  • @IAmTheFuhrminator
    @IAmTheFuhrminator Рік тому +11

    Hi Michael! I noticed quite a few calculation mistakes this time, and while you pointed some of them out in your post-edit, some of them weren't caught. This plus the skipped calculation steps for "trivial" calculations made the video slightly harder to follow, and I ended up having to look up the paper you referenced to get the full picture.
    If you were rushing at the end to try and meet a "UA-cam-friendly time limit" as someone else in the comments said, then I would much prefer seeing a proof like this in all of its glory with all of the calculation steps even if it's 1 hour+ long. Sometimes the best math just can't fit into a 37-minute video!
    Thanks for all of the great work; I'll be looking forward to the next video!

    • @MyOneFiftiethOfADollar
      @MyOneFiftiethOfADollar Рік тому +1

      We are all brokenhearted that you had to waste your precious time to read the resource provided in the video.
      Use all your well intentioned advice to produce a video on this topic that meets your fastidious demands.
      I look forward to viewing said video on YOUR channel.

    • @IAmTheFuhrminator
      @IAmTheFuhrminator Рік тому +3

      @@MyOneFiftiethOfADollar dude chill, I was just commenting to let him know what would have made the video more enjoyable for me. He doesn't have to do anything I asked for, but if people don't give feedback to content creators then they don't know if they are producing videos that people will keep enjoying. So sorry not sorry 🤷

  • @demenion3521
    @demenion3521 Рік тому +7

    i think it's worth pointing out that omega_bar is also an element of your ring since omega_bar=1-omega which is clearly an element of Z[omega]

  • @jimm1037
    @jimm1037 Рік тому +5

    This is so similar to an equation I have been looking at: Integer solutions to 2^n - n = x^2. The only solutions appear to be n = 0, 1 and 7 but I cannot prove it.

    • @pnintetr
      @pnintetr 11 місяців тому

      I could check that all the solutions other than (n, x) = (0, 1), (1, 1), (7, 11), if exist, would require n ≡ 7 (mod 8).
      Checking n ≥ 0 is trivial.
      Even integers (≠ 0) are easily eliminable since we need (2^m - 1)^2 < x^2 < 2^(2m) for all integers m ≥ 1.
      Odd integers are difficult to approach, although I suspect Pell's equation might help.
      We can at least reduce n ≡ 1 (mod 2) to n ≡ 7 (mod 8) by gradually checking parity.

    • @koga2960
      @koga2960 8 місяців тому

      ​@@pnintetr I reached the same results, but I also noticed that analysing n = 7 mod8 for sufficiently big n will force x = floor(sqrt(2^n)). Do you know of any interesting ways to look at the growth of 2^n - floor(sqrt(2^n))²? If we show it grows quicker than linear (although I'm not even sure that is true) then the problem would be over

    • @koga2960
      @koga2960 8 місяців тому

      I checked all the values of n from 0 to 400 and only 0, 1, 7 work in that range, as well. Really makes it seem like they're the only answers

  • @allanjmcpherson
    @allanjmcpherson Рік тому +7

    I'm a bit confused by the step at 36:10 where we've substituted b_12 and b_13. That gives us a term of (-1)^(j+k-12) that appears to simplify, but I don't understand how it does.

    • @franzlyonheart4362
      @franzlyonheart4362 Рік тому +12

      He's making A LOT of calculation mistakes in those steps. You can see that he's rushing it and glancing at his notes all the time. I suppose he didn't want the video to become that long, in order to remain somewhat UA-cam friendly.
      The only way to "get it" is to sit down and recalculate it yourself, using the video more like a guideline than fact, and not skipping all the steps he skipped, and then you'll avoid (and fix) all these calculation errors. And perhaps in addition using the original paper with the proof that he references at the beginning.

    • @Alex_Deam
      @Alex_Deam Рік тому +1

      I think that k-12 should be k-j, which means that term becomes (-1)^k, but since k is odd this reduces to -1

  • @59de44955ebd
    @59de44955ebd Рік тому +8

    The name of this norwegian guy was actually "Nagell", no trailing "e" (and therefor also not pronounced french/italian).

  • @ffggddss
    @ffggddss Рік тому +5

    x² + 7 = 2^n. Pre-watch: ("Ramanujan" implies it must be Diophantine, right?)
    Just using trial-and-error, move the "7" to the right [x² = 2^n - 7], run through some powers of 2, and see what makes the RHS a square. I quickly get these:
    (x, n) = (1, 3), (3, 4), (5, 5), (11, 7).
    I can see how a general solution could have eluded him, though...or determining whether these are the only (+ve) integer solutions.
    Post-watch: Oh I see, it wasn't that he couldn't solve the equation, but that he couldn't prove there were only those few solutions you gave.
    Fred

  • @siquod
    @siquod Рік тому +8

    When I saw the thumbnail, I had the intuition to adjoin the square root and use a linear recurrence or something, but then I thought "If Ramanujan couldn't solve it, what chances do I have?" Turns out I was on the right way, even though it gets a bit more involved after that start.

  • @hassanalihusseini1717
    @hassanalihusseini1717 Рік тому +10

    I must admit I did not understand the proof. But anyway it was interesting to see the limited numbers of solutions. Can it be proven for other numbers than 7 (I mean for x^2 + p = 2^n, with p€N, or p prime)?

    • @justinharper6909
      @justinharper6909 Рік тому

      Anything can be proven in maths. Otherwise it would not exist.

  • @ElusiveEel
    @ElusiveEel 4 місяці тому

    good motivator for abstract algebra, number theory and recurrence relations

  • @josephmartos
    @josephmartos Місяць тому

    I came here after two years and hardly got to follow the explanation till the end. Im so proud of my mediocre maths ❤❤

  • @anksssssssss
    @anksssssssss Рік тому +20

    ramanujan never felt like he needed to prove anything , he thought it was just waste of paper for and paper was way too expensive for him , he just give answers and theorums and leave proving to future mathmathecians as their life goals

  • @carlpeterkirkebo2036
    @carlpeterkirkebo2036 Рік тому +3

    As far as I know there is or was no Norwegian mathematician with the name Nagelle. And that name does not sound very Norwegian. There was a Norwegian mathematician with a similar name; Trygve Nagell. He worked in this field.

  • @HagenvonEitzen
    @HagenvonEitzen Рік тому +1

    13:08 There's not that much to check: The norm omega * omegabar is a rational prime.

  • @vikramanbaburaj525
    @vikramanbaburaj525 10 місяців тому

    Wow..sounds like a poem. Absolute pleasure!!!

  • @mmoncure11
    @mmoncure11 Рік тому +6

    Please post video of you and spouse debating household budgeting process

  • @llchan
    @llchan Рік тому +1

    I have been watching the abstract algebra series in the Math Major channel for the past 2-3 months. I didn’t completely understand the entire proof of this video, especially when it’s claimed that the solutions for b[n]=-1 has to come from n=4k+1. Anyway, it’s nice to see how ring theory can be applied to solve number theory problems. This is a really good example to show how the two areas are tied to each other.

    • @Gandarf_
      @Gandarf_ Рік тому +1

      Behind the scene there was proven a fact about b_n (mod 16) (you can find timing with b_n value table near the end, there was a circular pattern with length 4), and since 1 and -1 should stay as is after every mod we can say that b_n = -1 iff n=4k+1

  • @goodplacetostop2973
    @goodplacetostop2973 Рік тому +10

    37:01

  • @Macieks300
    @Macieks300 Рік тому +1

    It actually sounds like a classic Ramanujan. He just made a conjecture he didn't care to prove which turned out to be true.

  • @Hipeter1987
    @Hipeter1987 Рік тому

    33:10 how does the second equation imply the third equation? b4=-3 and b5=-1, so how do we get cancelation down to 0?

    • @Alex_Deam
      @Alex_Deam Рік тому +1

      If I've understood correctly it's because the LHS is -1 and the RHS is (-1)^k +(mult of 3) (note that the exponent of 2 is a typo), and since k is odd that reduces to -1=-1+(mult of 3), which can only be true if that multiple of 3 is 0.

  • @mcalkis5771
    @mcalkis5771 10 місяців тому

    Seeing Michael smile at the beginning is the highlight of the video.

  • @MrMessimm
    @MrMessimm Рік тому +1

    Michael Pennis my favourite matematician!

  • @indovash
    @indovash 2 дні тому

    This is a pretty intense equation. Starts off relatively soft, then explodes after just a couple of steps.
    In the real world, where that kind of time and energy spent solving an equation is needed, where would we actually see the equation, x^2+7=2^n? In what applications is it meaningful to use and understand this equation? Why spend time, energy, and money on an equation that doesn't have a real world application?

  • @21nck93
    @21nck93 Рік тому

    I really have some issues with the solution that he demonstrates. Like, should there be a 2 before the sigma in 27:48 because omega*inverse-omega=2. Also, why does the exponent change from k in 30:01 to 2 in 30:21?
    Tbh, the ending equation just leaves me with confusion. Can anyone explains plz? 😢

  • @byronwatkins2565
    @byronwatkins2565 Рік тому +2

    At 27:53, I think your sum is missing a factor of 2 due to omega omega bar... ditto for 28:39.

    • @garyknight8966
      @garyknight8966 Рік тому +3

      However, I still can't figure out where the 2 pre-factor on the sum arose at 30:17 (not to mention the exponents of 2 rather than k)

    • @garyknight8966
      @garyknight8966 Рік тому

      Not that the pre-factor matters when that whole sum is 0 !

  • @anarchostalinprimitividiag1030

    I love your content! Where in norway was the confernece you attended? And what was it all about? Im going to study math in Norway soon and would love to have you hold a seminar for me sometime :)

  • @xizar0rg
    @xizar0rg Рік тому +1

    Why mod 16? Also, why root -7 (though this I assume because +-5 didn't work)?

    • @pawetwardowski839
      @pawetwardowski839 Рік тому

      Two reasons for sqrt(-7): first, it allows to nicely factor 2 (as the roots of x^2-x+2), second, unique factorization fails in the ring of integers of Q[sqrt(-5)].

    • @clearnightsky
      @clearnightsky Рік тому

      Tha's because the equation is x^2+7.

  • @saifidinrahmonculov-kv6xp
    @saifidinrahmonculov-kv6xp Рік тому +22

    You're a super mathematician

  • @devondevon4366
    @devondevon4366 Рік тому

    n = 7 x =11 answer
    x^2 + 7 = 2^ n
    x^2 = 2^ n - 7
    x^2 is odd (since 2^ n is EVEN and 7 is 0DD and EVEN - 0DD = EVEN OR vice versa)
    Hence x is odd
    Possible ending
    1 * 1 = 1
    3 *3 = 9
    5* 5 = 25
    7 * 7 - 49
    9 * 9 = 81
    So x^2 either ends ( or the last digit) with 1 or 9 or 5
    Hence, 2^ n ends ( or last digit) is either 8 (7+ 1), 6 ( 7+ 9 =16) or 2 ( 7 + 5 =12)
    So we are looking for a 2^ n, which ends with last digit is either 8, 6 or 2
    e.g. of 2^n = 2, 4 8, 16, 32, 64,128, 256, etc..
    And when subtracting 7 from any of these numbers, it must be a square
    Let's try 128 (which the last digit is 8 . Recall it has to be either 8, 6, or 2)
    128 -7 = 121 which is 11^2
    11 is odd , so we are on the right track
    Answer 2^n 128 and 128 =2^7 hence n=7
    and x =11 ansewr

  • @danilonascimentorj
    @danilonascimentorj Рік тому

    Can anyone use this and prove that for n>3, there is no solution for 5^n-121 = x^2?

    • @davidbrisbane7206
      @davidbrisbane7206 Рік тому

      Think x² + 11² and Pythagorean triples. Is it possible that the hypotenuse in this case is divisible by 5?

  • @giorgostarnaras5658
    @giorgostarnaras5658 Рік тому

    can you solve a problem like this using binary nums?

  • @ankurantil6137
    @ankurantil6137 Рік тому

    He solved it, but on a slate with chalk, as he didn't have much paper and wrote the result only in his notes

  • @theEx0du5
    @theEx0du5 Рік тому +1

    They never do the UFD part..

  • @adamwho9801
    @adamwho9801 Рік тому +2

    It is interesting that this formula breaks numerical investigation. You cannot just plug it in and test all integers.

    • @HagenvonEitzen
      @HagenvonEitzen Рік тому +2

      Isn't that always the case with general statements?

    • @adamwho9801
      @adamwho9801 Рік тому

      @@HagenvonEitzen No, many times it is the process that is more important than the solution. This is a competition math channel, so computers would not be used.

    • @gerryiles3925
      @gerryiles3925 Рік тому +2

      @@adamwho9801I think his point was that you can never "test all integers"...

    • @adamwho9801
      @adamwho9801 Рік тому

      @@gerryiles3925 In this case it is true, but it isn't always the case. Sometimes numerical solutions can serve as a proof.

  • @dimitrosskrippka2154
    @dimitrosskrippka2154 Рік тому

    That’s funny that equations like this often have some solutions in small numbers and then no solutions whatsoever. I wonder what is the simplest Diophantus equation with a couple solutions that are all over googol

  • @TheEternalVortex42
    @TheEternalVortex42 Рік тому +1

    Very cool video

  • @dodokgp
    @dodokgp Рік тому

    Video title: "The equation Ramanujan couldn't solve",
    Me noticing that video is 37 minutes long. Me: "Makes sense".

  • @VKHSD
    @VKHSD Рік тому

    this video got me messed up

  • @thebeautifulbananabutter4662
    @thebeautifulbananabutter4662 Рік тому +2

    this is crazy

  • @gijbuis
    @gijbuis Рік тому

    I'm no mathematician, but looking at that equation I see 2 variables and 1 equation - so that must be insolvable?

    • @DQFozz
      @DQFozz 10 місяців тому

      An unfortunate result secondary education I believe. I was taught this too. It's mostly true for linear algebra but this equation has other constraints which limit the solutions.

  • @sharpnova2
    @sharpnova2 Рік тому

    i could figure this out in seconds.

  • @johns.8246
    @johns.8246 Рік тому

    And here I thought the proof to Bertrand's conjecture was horrible.

  • @pandabearguy1
    @pandabearguy1 Рік тому

    Were there any equations he could solve?

  • @mz1rek
    @mz1rek Рік тому

    For the first time I'm commenting that the place stopped wasn't a good one; the contradiction was not very clear.

  • @NH-zh8mp
    @NH-zh8mp Рік тому +1

    I have a question :
    let I be a n-rectangle in R^n and f : I -> R be Darboux integrable. Suppose P_m be a uniform partition of I, which means P devises each edges of I to m intervals of the same lenghth. How to show that the Riemannian sum with respect to P_m is convergent to ∫_I f?
    Please help, thanks.

    • @franzlyonheart4362
      @franzlyonheart4362 Рік тому

      You want us to do your homework for you ? 😂

    • @NH-zh8mp
      @NH-zh8mp Рік тому

      @@franzlyonheart4362 nah, I just tried every way I know and find on sites, but I’m still struggle, so I really need help

    • @franzlyonheart4362
      @franzlyonheart4362 Рік тому

      @@NH-zh8mp Can your tutors not help you? (I suppose it's a homework question from uni.)
      It appears quite random, because it is outside of number theory, the topic of this video here. But Penn has been known to pick up questions from many mathematical areas, maybe you'll be lucky! Thinking back to my own undergrad days, we studied Lebesgue integrals, I cannot remember Darboux, but it has been a LONG time.

  • @GoranVedriskheops
    @GoranVedriskheops Рік тому

    if x = 1, 3, and 5, then n = 3, 4, and 5

  • @stefanotorelli3688
    @stefanotorelli3688 Рік тому

    It's fashinating! But.. I guess... Could this be a question of a calculus ex? I do not think so...

  • @brianstevens3858
    @brianstevens3858 Рік тому

    My quick solution is x=the square root of {2^n-7}. going for the quickest if n=2 then the square root of -3 or x=1.73205081 i. Is this wrong and if so how?

    • @조민구-h9r
      @조민구-h9r Рік тому +1

      x is natural number, which means x cannot be an imaginary number.

    • @brianstevens3858
      @brianstevens3858 Рік тому

      @@조민구-h9r Ah. I didn't know they weren't allowed since complex numbers, are used in real-life applications, such as electricity, as well as quadratic equations.

  • @ghlscitel6714
    @ghlscitel6714 Рік тому

    x=3, n=4 is a solution

  • @pokemonanimebattle3615
    @pokemonanimebattle3615 Рік тому

    not looking at comments, x is 3 n is 4

  • @josephmartos
    @josephmartos Рік тому +5

    Well, this is out of My reach :(

    • @gp-ht7ug
      @gp-ht7ug Рік тому +1

      Out of mine too

    • @Alan-zf2tt
      @Alan-zf2tt Рік тому +1

      You are in very good company - with Ramanujan at least

    • @Sandsteine
      @Sandsteine Рік тому +1

      Which part is confusing

    • @dujas2
      @dujas2 Місяць тому +1

      Out of my reach too. It is pretty simple to at least prove that n=4 is the only even solution.

  • @sshenron3331
    @sshenron3331 Рік тому

    There's ton of solution bro. First x = 1 and n = 3. And so on

    • @yuseifudo6075
      @yuseifudo6075 5 місяців тому +1

      He is not "bro", have some respect

  • @kalyany-jv6bb
    @kalyany-jv6bb Рік тому

    X=5i n=1

  • @at7388
    @at7388 10 місяців тому

    But Michael Penn could finally do it.

  • @MathsMadeSimple101
    @MathsMadeSimple101 Рік тому +1

    In B4 8 year old kids in the comment section claim they can solve it

  • @anestismoutafidis4575
    @anestismoutafidis4575 8 місяців тому

    1^2+7=2^3 x=1; n=3

  • @ImranAhmed-zx1rp
    @ImranAhmed-zx1rp 11 місяців тому

    Kindly change that thumbnail
    No one can judge legend Ramanujan

    • @yuseifudo6075
      @yuseifudo6075 5 місяців тому

      yes we can, and yes we will do

  • @dalitlegreenfuzzyman
    @dalitlegreenfuzzyman Рік тому

    Yeah that was pretty

  • @samueldeandrade8535
    @samueldeandrade8535 Рік тому

    Hummm. The thumbnail and the title made me lose a lot of the respect I had for Mr. Penn. They are so clickbaity. What a bad decision.

    • @yuseifudo6075
      @yuseifudo6075 5 місяців тому

      shut up kiddo where is the clickbait?

  • @khayalaliyev3519
    @khayalaliyev3519 Рік тому

    Michael Penn ,you are better than Ramanujan -you know it,😉

  • @ericicaza
    @ericicaza Рік тому +3

    x=1 and n=3. I must br smarter than ramunijan!

  • @swaderable
    @swaderable Рік тому +1

    I hate this... Combinatorics please