My family (including parents now live in Queensland) but my father used to drive trains for the VicRail and then the Met on the Frankston line in the 1970s to 1990s, we used to live in Seaford and myself or my brothers would get on the train with him at Seaford for a trip to Frankston and back. If we were lucky we would come from Flinders Street. It's kinda sad to see these level crossings go, but it makes sense. In those days less traffic and trains, nowadays those boomgates would be down forever with the number of trains running. The Eel Race Road to Seaford that section of rail has never changed. I remember my father telling us, one night in winter 1990, some guy moved a beam across the tracks on that bit of the track and then got a torch and sent a signal to the driver that there was a hazard on the line, it was my dad driving. The guy tried to say it was teens who moved it, but he later confessed it was him and he wanted to get famous by stopping a train derailment. He was bit of a loon, my dad says at the speed of 80kph hitting it would have derailed the train too.
Thanks for your interesting account of your days on the Frankston line. I expect your father would have knowing Lindsay Adams who appears in some of my videos, particularly the “Harris trains Melbourne” one. When I saw him a couple of years ago, he was still living just a few stations away from Seaford.
not sure if i would pass the signals tests but thanks for posting. i grew up in frankston from 1954 to 1967, so lots of memories of this trip and indeed lots of changes.
You are not the only one confused by the signals. I’ve lost count of how many times I have added their meaning to videos, but still have to always look it up. With a number of level crossings being removed on this line, no doubt I will have updated videos on that matter before too long.
You should come down and visit, go to places like the Mornington Tourist Railway and Newport works, heck even just go to the CBD and see some old trams doing service, i would love to see more tourists loving the transportation not for convenience but for its history.
I visit Melbourne every summer which is always cold when I go there. I saw the Mornington tourist railway just last February although unfortunately it was not a running day. I stay at Saint Kilda and use the trams every single day. If you care to look at my video “ecoming a tram driver Melbourne 1988 you will see all the very many interesting trams I drove but are now forever out of sight in the Hawthorne Museum. And there they will stay while the Tramway is run by foreigners. So don’t tell me I need to get to Melbourne!
As always love your videos. Thanks for the editing comments-love your since of humor in them. You made me laugh few times. Thanks for sharing. Looking forward to some more. God bless
Thanks, those new skyrail overpasses are a touch strange, they kind of look like a station with their 'platforms' The number of 'slow' sections surprises me, given that a typical trip is the same as a car ride - 1Hr
Melbourne’s signals are different from everybody’s. With your very much higher voltage, the work is done with many less amps so the wires can be thinner. Mechanical strength is probably more the limiting factor there.
Of note, from a signalling perspective, the Frankston yard is probably the most complex part of the whole trip, as it has two position signals. You can see four disc signals on the approach, which apply from the up track back into the platforms and the sidings, along with several others. The Stony Point line reverts back to three position signals once it goes around the curve on the down side.
I really just watched 50 minutes of train driving 😂 New frankston station looks muchhh better than the old one. Very nice to see the drivers view on your local line.
Its apparently a bit of a wind tunnel, with not enough shelter from the rain. The 'new' roofs are way too high and the rain etc just blows under. All style, not enough function. I'd like to see a vid of the old wooden station, however I doubt anything exists.
The so-called shelters on the Gold Coast tramline are also much too high to be any use unless rain is falling without blowing, and offer no wind protection.
The curve boards (speeds) only apply to the curve. Once the train has cleared the curve, it can return to the track speed, subject of course, to signal aspects. In this video, the train was obviously following another, just a few track sections ahead, hence the restricted signal aspects.
There appears to be some confusion with the Sydney system where speed boards apply to the section until the next speed board. In Melbourne, the line speeds are known when training for the line and some curves have speed limits as indicated by the yellow curve speed signs when required.
@@jemijona Someone once mentioned to me that the posted line speeds in Sydney were interpreted as the average through a section, not the maximum, by a significant number of drivers up to 2003. Is that actually true?
@@peterqwertdrummer You mean that Dandenong to Frankston track use to be before? I don't think so now the bus travel between Dandenong to Frankston still on Public Transport Victoria! ;)
@@peterhooper7610 Generally, Dandenong trains run on the two left tracks and Frankston on the two right (between South Yarra and Caulfield). But not always.
I think one of the cons of Melbourne metro is the weird alignments. If they made Frankston station being in the middle it might have saved some time from going only at 30km/h
In this video was this train not in service to Mordialloc and then why did it change train tracks to platform 1 was it to do with the replacement buses between Mordialloc and another station during that time
It was an empty cars run from the city. It was supposed to go further but due to a delay in getting underway, a radio message told the driver that he would be terminated at Mordialloc to commence the return journey. I had to cut out that voice message as it could lead to the Driver being identified.
Wow. I am still a bit confused on all those speed board tests. But a nice ride. What about a cabride to Stony Point on that train just ahead of us towards the end of the video?
Several comments seem to have suddenly disappeared. To the gent who asked about becoming a train driver, this is what a driver said recently: “There are always many more applicants than positions available so in that regard, yes it is difficult. It's a multi-layered selection process consisting of on-line and face-to-face interviews and psychometric testing. Once selected, it's a 41 to 50 week course, classroom based for the first few weeks followed by on-the-job training. Assessments both theoretical and practical are conducted roughly monthly and include material covered in prior assessments so the amount of study required increases as the course progresses. This is while working shifts with your on-job-trainer so if you've never worked shifts previously, that adds an extra dimension to the experience.”
I expect that many existing drivers would fail if tested. Don’t feel too bad about the fail. Drivers tell me that the company is not a nice mob to work for.
@@tressteleg1 Thanks I do believe that psychometric is a form of discrimination and it's not widely used tool amongst employers during recruitment process
I never had to do any of that BS when I joined the trams in 1987. They should not be seeking the most brilliant minds to drive trams and trains. Such people quickly will get bored with train or tram driving unless they are avid fans. And for them the novelty can wear thin at times. It also looks like discrimination. Perhaps you can try again the the future when some other mob runs the show.
@@tressteleg1 It doesn't matter what job undertaking it's the same repetitive task that people do. If I could understand what makes psychometric pertinent to the recruitment process and how does it apply to the role. Intelligence is in many forms. Thanks btw
At 10:11 the signal is red over green and the train takes the diverging route. Can anyone say what signal aspect is shown if the train is to go straight ahead, eg to Dandenong? The upper light is a fixed red. There appears to be no junction indicator. Similarly after leaving Caulfield the train gets red over green and ends up on the middle track heading toward Glenhuntly. What would the signal show if the road were set for the eastern track?
tressteleg1 I had watched that video and found it interesting but it doesn’t answer my question, so let me rephrase the question. At the two places I refer to there don’t seem to be any junction indicators that tell the driver which track the train will take. So in this case, when approaching Caulfield, how does the driver know that the points have been set for the diverging route? And on leaving Caulfield how the driver know whether the road is set for the centre track or eastern track? Thank you very much for your videos.
jrpsims As the route to Dandenong is basically a straight line through Caulfield, I expect that in the absence of a train in front, the signal display would be green over red which is full permitted speed. That would be the hint. The turn to Frankston would never show that. It is all about the driver learning the road.
tressteleg1 But it appears that the home signal protecting the junction has a fixed red for the ‘A’ light meaning green over red is not possible. Am I misinterpreting something? Thank you.
jrpsims I’m sorry but I am not a Signals engineer and railway signals are just a side interest. I live in Qld. Perhaps you can ask a Melbourne driver sometime if nobody else responds.
Victorian passenger locomotives. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Victorian_Railways_diesel_locomotives There are several freight train companies in Victoria and unfortunately there seems to be no lists of their locomotives. Maybe some are GE but I really have no idea.
The signal system seems to complicated for what is needed. A Red/Yellow/Green and double Yellow are all you need. Plus a clearer points direction light is all you need. Qld Rails signals seem clearer.
My background was Sydney signals which seemed perfectly clear. Starting with two greens gradually heading towards to reds with several steps in between. Combinations such as two yellows indicated a turnout/junction and there may have been one or two other abnormal options for certain situations. Brisbane seems to have less steps between green and red.
I did like the irony in the naming, in that “Skytrain” goes over Skye Road (towards the outer end of the route). It just seemed an odd coincidence! :-)
As it is connected and does not look rusty I suppose it gets used. But you live in Melbourne and I live on the Gold Coast so you can check more easily than me 😊.
I don’t recall. I usually do say in the video when we passed one going the other way. If it makes weird electronic noises, its an XTrapolis. if it’s fairly quiet, it’s a Siemens. If you hear gear noises, it’s a Comeng.
hi,great to see these videos from the drivers perspective,with this trip from melb to frankston ,can you perhaps ,put up the transit through mentone station at normal speed or half speed as this is one old station that will be removed,hopefully to be rebuilt after the hole is dug and new station finished,any thoughts
4:00 - 4:20 Could they put the signals any higher? That just seem stupid. 38:55 proves my point. Alert ahead, signal obstructed because its 3m - 4m higher than it needs to be. :)
With the forest of overhead masts, maybe up high they can be seen from further back. I know that there is a drivers’ committee which checks the visibility of signals and if it is not as good as needed, required changes are made.
When driving you’re looking into the distance so it doesn’t matter they’re up high, in fact it can help visibility. Out of the way of other background light sources which may cause misreading of a signal. The alert sign for the signal isn’t because it’s obstructed by being so high, but because it is a high risk signal often showing a warning aspect indicating the next signal is at stop. If you miss it when you round the curve there’s a good chance you’ll go through the next red signal, which makes for a terrible, horrible, no good, very bad day
The third track is to allow some express running during the peak hours - used towards city in the morning, away in the afternoon. Maybe freight trains during the day or at night.
@@tressteleg1 I don't think so because the third track at Mordialloc is very short; roughly the same length as the station so that's why I think its got something to do with the sidings nearby.
@@tressteleg1 I think you're thinking of the third track between Caulfield and Moorabbin which is used for express trains in the peak that run express from Cheltenham to Caulfield in the morning peak and from Caulfield to Cheltenham in the afternoon peak.
Yes the older signals generally have much simpler operating systems, and will change their aspect in order, as they generally can't just switch from one straight to another, they have to go through the sequence. (Some of the non-searchlight signals also do it, displaying a caution for a split second when changing from green to red, or red to green.
I think some earlier colour light signals had one lamp inside and a motor drove an arm with the 3 colours mounted on it and moved much like the lenses of a semaphore arm signal. So with Yellow mounted between Red and Green it must be seen for a moment as the colours are moved between Red and Green.
@@tressteleg1 Yes, there is a wiper. Red (de-energised) in the middle with yellow on one side and green on the other side. With the searchlight energised one way you get yellow, then reverse the polarity to energise the wiper the other way, red will flash as it transits to green.
Probably the hardest train to drive would be a long freight train. With all trains, the problem is not starting them or running them but stopping them in the correct location. As for suburban trains, despite having slightly different controls, there would not be a great lot of difference between one and the next. Once you get the feel for trains in general, particularly stopping them as I said, it’s fairly easy to adapt to each different type. When I learnt to drive trams, it was about five weeks with the W class but after that, only a week or 2 to adapt to foot control trams like As and Bs. Whatever you might decide to learn to drive, the instructors will make sure that you adapt readily to the different types and I would not think of any of them has being particularly hard at all.
Interesting video, and I live thousands of miles away! This complex signal system is due for modernization to one that is more straightforward and intuitive.
Out of curiosity, what happens when the crossing is marked to "go"? (Usually) Does it get converted into a flyover? An overpass? An underpass? Or just plain removed?
asteiner321 It was simply an empty cars run to an outer station where it would enter service for the day. While a few crossings were eliminated, most were replaced by a bridge under or over the rail line.
With all of these line upgrades, i think it's time to upgrade the signals to digital sign boards, this would be much clearer and easier to understand than learning and deciphering all of these signals as well as watching for speed boards.
It was just an idea that popped into my head whilst watching this. But i do feel that Driver signalling is overdue for an upgrade and with everything else analog it's due to be digitalised so why not digital electronic boards with a speed and warning(clear/caution/stop etc).
In Munich they have now head up displays on the Windscreen for the driver. There are all informations including signals. The signals at the track are going away.
I believe that in-cab displays are the way of the future. I don’t think any railways here are doing that yet but maybe some are experimenting. That system would be more important in places with a lot of foggy weather.
Sydney is installing ETCS level 2 on the airport and Illawarra line (and slowly the whole network) which uses in cab signalling. (Although less dense parts of the network will still use lineside signalling). The cross river rail in Brisbane is supposed to be doing something similar? (Although they might still use Line-side signalling). The metro tunnel in Melbourne may also not have signals on it, as all the new trains should be able to use in cab signalling. But yes, all five commuter rail systems in Australia are doing some kind of experimentation with the technology. Although it is likely that they will bypass the signalling system altogether, instead, getting the driver to just press a button and have the train do all the work. This will have the benefit of higher frequencies and potentially faster journey times, but it will mean that driving a train could get really boring.
During off peak times only the two western tracks are used (generally). In these times the far eastern track can be used for freight services or other non-passenger trains. During peak times, the normal services will use the two outer tracks and express services will use the centre track (generally).
Unless it has changed, the two outer tracks are single direction running while the centre track can be run in either direction. So, in the morning, two tracks head into the city and in the afternoon, the centre track "turns around" so that two tracks are then available for the peak for everyone going home from the city.
@@pwhnckexstflajizdryvombqug9042 It was this that caught out an on duty policeman on North Rd many years ago. A train was stopped on the centre line in the down direction when another express empties ran on the down line. The policeman with lights on going through the activated crossing didn't see the empties because of the stopper on the centre line until it was too late, or not at all. Unfortunately, his wife, also a police person, heard of this over the police radio. It was after this that emergency services were banned from going through activated crossings.
I can see that the Stony Point sprinter has its red marker lights on but doesn't the rear or the sprinter need to be protected by a red flag or has the regulation regarding occupied platforms been done away with?
I love watching your videos. I recently applied for the trainee train driver position and i think this is great learning material for that. Can you please tell the process after you pass the online test? I was told between 1 - 12 months i would hear something. How long did it take for you?
I never was a train driver. I used to drive trams. I expect that Metro likes to have a reserve of successful applicants so that they can commence training any time they have a need for new drivers depending on how many existing drivers quit or retire.
The track speeds seem to be a bit of a snails pace... compared to our 130km/h up here in Queensland on parts of the Gold Coast and Sunshine Coast lines, hell, even getting out of the City it seems faster up here. At least melbourne has a relatively large rail & tram system, at the same time, neither Melbourne or Brisbane's commuter rail network compares with Perth with it's high frequency and high speeds... Nonetheless, it's a good video.
My local rail line is the Gold Coast. While it is certainly fast south of Beenleigh, I think the maximum permitted speesd on the winding sections north of there are too slow. But some lines are pathetically slow. Take a trip to Doomben from Roma St and you will see what I mean. A fit jogger could get there faster. Don’t forget the Springfield line for some good speeds on the new bit.
Not Aplic I can’t be certain but I suspect not because of the fear that it might gets built and coffee get into the Control Panel. Definitely no smoking.
If you can get more videos when trains are running on empty it will save you on editing time.... It's Mystikal btw..... It appears that L.C are nearly gone from the Frankston line
I like the express runs too but I can only post what the driver gives me on my annual trip south. There are still 11 crossings to be started or completed. This will help you. levelcrossings.vic.gov.au/projects
Why Metro trains so slow, as UK are fast and Japan narrow gauge are fast as well.....its time metro trains handle high speed. About time most sleepers now Concrete as some rails are not even..
Most Australian railways have a disease whereby they prefer to run trains more slowly so the chance of them ever being late is much reduced, purely so politicians can get up and say “99% of the trains ran on time last month”. It’s too bad for passengers that trains now with stronger motors are slower than they were in past times. And it seems that the slower the trains normally run, the less drivers feel confident driving faster to catch up (or hate management so much that they do not even try), and added to that is the fear that with conservative speed boards, they will be in trouble for exceeding the limit if they do try to make up time, so run even slower. This is lamentable, but so often the case although there are stretches of faster running. The Gold Coast railway on 3 foot six gauge regularly runs at 140 km/h on the comparatively newly built track but nowhere near this fast on the winding section north of Beenleigh which was laid out in steam days. You will also see some satisfactorily fast running in my Driver’s view Werribee line video. And Melbourne has always been slow anyway.
I personally dislike the ‘level crossing removal project’ I think melbournes level crossings is a part of our history, I can agree with some of the WORST ones going, but they’re removing almost all, and I don’t like it.
I can understand your sentiments with that. It seems to me to be totally pointless to remove, for example, the crossings close to Frankston where the Bay is only a couple of hundred metres away. They can’t possibly have much traffic and will be an eyesore for the local residents. Nevertheless I don’t think too many motorists will share your opinion.
Sadly they are removing them mostly for car users. There is a safely aspect too of course. It's pretty difficult to get a car stuck on the tracks when the tracks go under or over.
There are advantages for the trains including no more delays from faulty or broken boom gates, cars stuck on the tracks and all sorts of other problems connected with level crossings. However, overall, the motorists are the biggest winners, after they fight with the replacement traffic lights.
They aren't paying much attention to smaller lines with lots of crossings because they don't get too many trains and the roads typically aren't used heaps either.
Not a fan of a signal system that constantly includes a red as part of normal as it seems rather counterintuitive, but I suppose you'd get used to it. While I found it interesting, it brings home to me how primitive our systems are compared with somewhere like the Netherlands, for example. They don't have speed boards as it's all linked directly to the train's speedometer in the cab (the idea we rely on something as prone to error as human memory seems pretty ridiculous given for how long superior technological solutions have been available). They have lots of level crossings, but the train speed is still 130-140km/h through them. And so on. As I said, makes lots of our systems and track (Melb and Syd) look like they belong in the steam age, which of course much of it did.
The only reason I can think of for a fixed Red signal is to show where the signal is if the light above goes out, something which might have happened in the days of kerosene lights.
@@tressteleg1 Would be interesting to know where it came from, as I think NSW and much of the European stuff seem to be the green/red top and green/amber/red bottom system. Regardless, I think the speed being taken from the track into the cab's speedo along with a bell/tone to indicate the change is more important as it shows the applicable speed limit under all circumstances. Been around for decades and we're still using crappy boards.
I’m probably a bit ‘old hat’ but can think of no good reason to update something that does exactly what is required unless it is too maintenance intensive. The more complex the system, the greater chance there is for a breakdown, the last thing you want in the peak hour. Where bad weather is often a problem with signal sighting, then certainly something better is required. You seem to be suggesting Automatic train control. That needs a careful selection process to get the most suitable. From what I have read, the new Sydney Metro leaves a lot to be desired with heavy brake applications suddenly happening when the train speed needs to be only gently slowed a bit. As for where the whacky Melbourne system comes from, it is generally believed to be based on some US practice.
@@tressteleg1 I know about the Dutch system mainly as I have family there and always catch their trains when I get off the plane (the set up is what every airport ought to have with the station easily accessible immediately below the main entrance). They still have the speed signs as backup. The only difference is the applicable speed limit, either track or signal driven, results in a needle or light on the speedo (they have a number of different types) is immediately reflected in the cab. The driving is entirely manual, and there's a follow up tone once they've reduced the new applicable limit if it's a reduction (there's also an overspeed warning). Of course they get fog and snow to contend with, too, but I believe they've had that system for a long time. I agree with it all being cost/benefit, and it might be that the much lower speeds on our city lines means the case for such a system simply isn't there, doubly so when retrofitting it would cost a lot and our governments have typically been crap at investing heavily in public transport until more recent times. Thanks for the discussion, always nice to hear back from the owner of the video. Cheers
All good. Thanks for the Dutch details. Signalling is a minor rail interest of mine but IF the cab signally was the only way to get more trains per hour through a section of track then the upgrade would be justified.
Sounds like the words of a snob. If everyone had an IQ of 150, nobody would agree to do more mundane jobs that society needs doing. And what are you? Brain surgeon??
Most Australian railways were built on the cheap well over 100 years ago. Melbourne falls down on often inadequate maintenance and being happy with slow running speeds.
My family (including parents now live in Queensland) but my father used to drive trains for the VicRail and then the Met on the Frankston line in the 1970s to 1990s, we used to live in Seaford and myself or my brothers would get on the train with him at Seaford for a trip to Frankston and back. If we were lucky we would come from Flinders Street. It's kinda sad to see these level crossings go, but it makes sense. In those days less traffic and trains, nowadays those boomgates would be down forever with the number of trains running. The Eel Race Road to Seaford that section of rail has never changed. I remember my father telling us, one night in winter 1990, some guy moved a beam across the tracks on that bit of the track and then got a torch and sent a signal to the driver that there was a hazard on the line, it was my dad driving. The guy tried to say it was teens who moved it, but he later confessed it was him and he wanted to get famous by stopping a train derailment. He was bit of a loon, my dad says at the speed of 80kph hitting it would have derailed the train too.
Thanks for your interesting account of your days on the Frankston line. I expect your father would have knowing Lindsay Adams who appears in some of my videos, particularly the “Harris trains Melbourne” one. When I saw him a couple of years ago, he was still living just a few stations away from Seaford.
not sure if i would pass the signals tests but thanks for posting.
i grew up in frankston from 1954 to 1967, so lots of memories
of this trip and indeed lots of changes.
You are not the only one confused by the signals. I’ve lost count of how many times I have added their meaning to videos, but still have to always look it up.
With a number of level crossings being removed on this line, no doubt I will have updated videos on that matter before too long.
Your videos make Fridays great. I'm intrigued seeing Melbourne's infrastructure, despite it being on the other side of the world from me.
Nice to have you aboard! 😊
You should come down and visit, go to places like the Mornington Tourist Railway and Newport works, heck even just go to the CBD and see some old trams doing service, i would love to see more tourists loving the transportation not for convenience but for its history.
I visit Melbourne every summer which is always cold when I go there. I saw the Mornington tourist railway just last February although unfortunately it was not a running day. I stay at Saint Kilda and use the trams every single day. If you care to look at my video “ecoming a tram driver Melbourne 1988 you will see all the very many interesting trams I drove but are now forever out of sight in the Hawthorne Museum. And there they will stay while the Tramway is run by foreigners. So don’t tell me I need to get to Melbourne!
tressteleg1 I’m not talking to u imma be talking to original commenter, I can tell y’all love Melbourne
As always love your videos. Thanks for the editing comments-love your since of humor in them. You made me laugh few times. Thanks for sharing. Looking forward to some more. God bless
Thanks. I like to keep videos nice and trim, and add the occasional light-hearted comment. 😄
@@tressteleg1 ty enjoyed 😄
Terrific video of the driver's view. Many thanks for sharing :)
👍
Another excellent video with fantastic narration. Thank you.
👍👍😊
Thanks, those new skyrail overpasses are a touch strange, they kind of look like a station with their 'platforms'
The number of 'slow' sections surprises me, given that a typical trip is the same as a car ride - 1Hr
😊
Thank You. Signals are very different to ours over here in the West. Overhead Equipment seems to be much heavier than our 25kva over here too.
Melbourne’s signals are different from everybody’s. With your very much higher voltage, the work is done with many less amps so the wires can be thinner. Mechanical strength is probably more the limiting factor there.
Of note, from a signalling perspective, the Frankston yard is probably the most complex part of the whole trip, as it has two position signals. You can see four disc signals on the approach, which apply from the up track back into the platforms and the sidings, along with several others. The Stony Point line reverts back to three position signals once it goes around the curve on the down side.
Thanks for your information. I can only go by what different people tell me.
@@tressteleg1aaaaaAAaaaaaaaaàq
I really just watched 50 minutes of train driving 😂
New frankston station looks muchhh better than the old one. Very nice to see the drivers view on your local line.
😊👍 hopefully there will be more videos of your line after the crossing removals are completed and I can get to Melbourne to pick up more videos.
Its apparently a bit of a wind tunnel, with not enough shelter from the rain. The 'new' roofs are way too high and the rain etc just blows under. All style, not enough function.
I'd like to see a vid of the old wooden station, however I doubt anything exists.
The so-called shelters on the Gold Coast tramline are also much too high to be any use unless rain is falling without blowing, and offer no wind protection.
Can't wait for new Carrum Station open early 2020 new over bridge and station! Thank you for sharing video awesome!! ;)
Any idea when? I may be down in February.
@@tressteleg1 A month ago had start construction at Carrum Station from Level Crossing so you checking UA-cam: Level Crossing/ Carrum Station. ;)
OK. A video for 2021 it seems...
@31:21, I thought line speed down of Mordialloc was 95 km/h? The 80 km/h curve boards only apply for relatively short lengths.
Maybe the line speed limit was 95 but high speeds seen on other lines did not seem particularly common on this run.
The curve boards (speeds) only apply to the curve. Once the train has cleared the curve, it can return to the track speed, subject of course, to signal aspects. In this video, the train was obviously following another, just a few track sections ahead, hence the restricted signal aspects.
There appears to be some confusion with the Sydney system where speed boards apply to the section until the next speed board. In Melbourne, the line speeds are known when training for the line and some curves have speed limits as indicated by the yellow curve speed signs when required.
@@jemijona Someone once mentioned to me that the posted line speeds in Sydney were interpreted as the average through a section, not the maximum, by a significant number of drivers up to 2003. Is that actually true?
@@Steamtostay Sorry, I cannot confirm or deny this. I'm only going by comments made on another video, which weren't challenged.
i noticed that youre travelling on the pakenham/cranbourne lines even though the train is frankston bound
Glad I'm not the only one who noticed.
Frankston Trains were using the Dandenong Tracks. Unexpected
Yeah I noticed that too.
@@peterqwertdrummer You mean that Dandenong to Frankston track use to be before? I don't think so now the bus travel between Dandenong to Frankston still on Public Transport Victoria! ;)
And Express from Caulfield to Mordialloc
@@peterhooper7610 Generally, Dandenong trains run on the two left tracks and Frankston on the two right (between South Yarra and Caulfield). But not always.
What happens if you go full speed (60-70km/h) over tram square?
You are bound to break something, get reported by the railway signalman and be in the dole office quicker than you can blink.
Not to mention multiple law suits for chronic posterior damage lol. Its a hard and rough ride over that square at 20kph or less, much less 60/70kph!
*derailment* *O O F*
I think one of the cons of Melbourne metro is the weird alignments. If they made Frankston station being in the middle it might have saved some time from going only at 30km/h
VincentKoh LUMCFan I will take your word for it.
In this video was this train not in service to Mordialloc and then why did it change train tracks to platform 1 was it to do with the replacement buses between Mordialloc and another station during that time
It was an empty cars run from the city. It was supposed to go further but due to a delay in getting underway, a radio message told the driver that he would be terminated at Mordialloc to commence the return journey. I had to cut out that voice message as it could lead to the Driver being identified.
Wow. I am still a bit confused on all those speed board tests. But a nice ride. What about a cabride to Stony Point on that train just ahead of us towards the end of the video?
It is a VLine train so until some VLine driver approaches me offering to take his camera or phone along, we will all have to dream.
Several comments seem to have suddenly disappeared.
To the gent who asked about becoming a train driver, this is what a driver said recently:
“There are always many more applicants than positions available so in that regard, yes it is difficult. It's a multi-layered selection process consisting of on-line and face-to-face interviews and psychometric testing. Once selected, it's a 41 to 50 week course, classroom based for the first few weeks followed by on-the-job training. Assessments both theoretical and practical are conducted roughly monthly and include material covered in prior assessments so the amount of study required increases as the course progresses. This is while working shifts with your on-job-trainer so if you've never worked shifts previously, that adds an extra dimension to the experience.”
I tried and failed.... psychometric has deemed me to be too stupid to become a train driver
I expect that many existing drivers would fail if tested. Don’t feel too bad about the fail. Drivers tell me that the company is not a nice mob to work for.
@@tressteleg1 Thanks I do believe that psychometric is a form of discrimination and it's not widely used tool amongst employers during recruitment process
I never had to do any of that BS when I joined the trams in 1987. They should not be seeking the most brilliant minds to drive trams and trains. Such people quickly will get bored with train or tram driving unless they are avid fans. And for them the novelty can wear thin at times. It also looks like discrimination. Perhaps you can try again the the future when some other mob runs the show.
@@tressteleg1 It doesn't matter what job undertaking it's the same repetitive task that people do. If I could understand what makes psychometric pertinent to the recruitment process and how does it apply to the role. Intelligence is in many forms. Thanks btw
At 10:11 the signal is red over green and the train takes the diverging route. Can anyone say what signal aspect is shown if the train is to go straight ahead, eg to Dandenong? The upper light is a fixed red. There appears to be no junction indicator.
Similarly after leaving Caulfield the train gets red over green and ends up on the middle track heading toward Glenhuntly. What would the signal show if the road were set for the eastern track?
Take a look at my video ‘Melbourne Train Signals Explained’. It shows speeds etc for different displays.
tressteleg1 I had watched that video and found it interesting but it doesn’t answer my question, so let me rephrase the question.
At the two places I refer to there don’t seem to be any junction indicators that tell the driver which track the train will take. So in this case, when approaching Caulfield, how does the driver know that the points have been set for the diverging route?
And on leaving Caulfield how the driver know whether the road is set for the centre track or eastern track?
Thank you very much for your videos.
jrpsims As the route to Dandenong is basically a straight line through Caulfield, I expect that in the absence of a train in front, the signal display would be green over red which is full permitted speed. That would be the hint. The turn to Frankston would never show that. It is all about the driver learning the road.
tressteleg1 But it appears that the home signal protecting the junction has a fixed red for the ‘A’ light meaning green over red is not possible.
Am I misinterpreting something?
Thank you.
jrpsims I’m sorry but I am not a Signals engineer and railway signals are just a side interest. I live in Qld. Perhaps you can ask a Melbourne driver sometime if nobody else responds.
Aí também tem trens cargas, locomotivas elétricas e também à diesel? 👀🚂
Diesel freight, Yes. Electric freight, No.
Driver's Views - Passing Long Distance Trains Melbourne
ua-cam.com/video/BEPBqsqav8Q/v-deo.html
@@tressteleg1 As locomotivas á diesel são da GE? (General Electric) ?👀🚂
Victorian passenger locomotives.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Victorian_Railways_diesel_locomotives
There are several freight train companies in Victoria and unfortunately there seems to be no lists of their locomotives. Maybe some are GE but I really have no idea.
The signal system seems to complicated for what is needed. A Red/Yellow/Green and double Yellow are all you need. Plus a clearer points direction light is all you need. Qld Rails signals seem clearer.
My background was Sydney signals which seemed perfectly clear. Starting with two greens gradually heading towards to reds with several steps in between. Combinations such as two yellows indicated a turnout/junction and there may have been one or two other abnormal options for certain situations. Brisbane seems to have less steps between green and red.
I did like the irony in the naming, in that “Skytrain” goes over Skye Road (towards the outer end of the route). It just seemed an odd coincidence! :-)
Certainly a coincidence. Skyrail was possibly pinched from the Vancouver Skytrain. Supposed to sound modern and ‘sexy’.
has anyone seen the crossing plans ? is the rail going over or under the roads ?
I don’t know. If the southern ones on this line ever get done, the trains will have to go over due to the high water table.
why are the tracks leaving flinders street and throughout the video at points and junctions so clickity clack?
Probably up to the usual Melbourne standard - at least half worn out.
12:38 is that Fourth track on the right used??
On the right side of the platform? Sure to be at busy times.
@@tressteleg1 no on the far right at 12:38
@@tressteleg1 it goes have signals so maybe
As it is connected and does not look rusty I suppose it gets used. But you live in Melbourne and I live on the Gold Coast so you can check more easily than me 😊.
@@tressteleg1 yeah. It looks like it has a few concrete sleepers and signals so yeah
What kind of train is it
I don’t recall. I usually do say in the video when we passed one going the other way. If it makes weird electronic noises, its an XTrapolis. if it’s fairly quiet, it’s a Siemens. If you hear gear noises, it’s a Comeng.
hi,great to see these videos from the drivers perspective,with this trip from melb to frankston ,can you perhaps ,put up the transit through mentone station at normal speed or half speed as this is one old station that will be removed,hopefully to be rebuilt after the hole is dug and new station finished,any thoughts
When I get videos of the changes at Mentone and ?the next station, I will cover them as fully as possible.
@@tressteleg1 ok,thanks
4:00 - 4:20 Could they put the signals any higher? That just seem stupid. 38:55 proves my point. Alert ahead, signal obstructed because its 3m - 4m higher than it needs to be. :)
With the forest of overhead masts, maybe up high they can be seen from further back. I know that there is a drivers’ committee which checks the visibility of signals and if it is not as good as needed, required changes are made.
When driving you’re looking into the distance so it doesn’t matter they’re up high, in fact it can help visibility. Out of the way of other background light sources which may cause misreading of a signal.
The alert sign for the signal isn’t because it’s obstructed by being so high, but because it is a high risk signal often showing a warning aspect indicating the next signal is at stop. If you miss it when you round the curve there’s a good chance you’ll go through the next red signal, which makes for a terrible, horrible, no good, very bad day
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Really enjoyed this, very educational
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No wonder Carrum was closed when I was in Melb in December
VincentKoh LUMCFan 😊
Anyone know what the middle track is for at Mordialloc? I always figured it was for express trains or freight trains.
Think it's for using the sidings.
The third track is to allow some express running during the peak hours - used towards city in the morning, away in the afternoon. Maybe freight trains during the day or at night.
@@tressteleg1 I don't think so because the third track at Mordialloc is very short; roughly the same length as the station so that's why I think its got something to do with the sidings nearby.
OK. I am not familiar with the line but I know there is a section just beyond Glenhuntly which is used for express running.
@@tressteleg1 I think you're thinking of the third track between Caulfield and Moorabbin which is used for express trains in the peak that run express from Cheltenham to Caulfield in the morning peak and from Caulfield to Cheltenham in the afternoon peak.
I always found it interesting how some of the older searchlight signals show Y/Y for a split second, i.e. MOR700 at 27:51.
Also, MOR712P has red over green over red for a very short time period.
I never noticed. I suppose it is mechanical relays operating in turn.
Yes the older signals generally have much simpler operating systems, and will change their aspect in order, as they generally can't just switch from one straight to another, they have to go through the sequence. (Some of the non-searchlight signals also do it, displaying a caution for a split second when changing from green to red, or red to green.
I think some earlier colour light signals had one lamp inside and a motor drove an arm with the 3 colours mounted on it and moved much like the lenses of a semaphore arm signal. So with Yellow mounted between Red and Green it must be seen for a moment as the colours are moved between Red and Green.
@@tressteleg1 Yes, there is a wiper. Red (de-energised) in the middle with yellow on one side and green on the other side. With the searchlight energised one way you get yellow, then reverse the polarity to energise the wiper the other way, red will flash as it transits to green.
what will be the easiest train to drive?
Probably the hardest train to drive would be a long freight train. With all trains, the problem is not starting them or running them but stopping them in the correct location. As for suburban trains, despite having slightly different controls, there would not be a great lot of difference between one and the next. Once you get the feel for trains in general, particularly stopping them as I said, it’s fairly easy to adapt to each different type.
When I learnt to drive trams, it was about five weeks with the W class but after that, only a week or 2 to adapt to foot control trams like As and Bs. Whatever you might decide to learn to drive, the instructors will make sure that you adapt readily to the different types and I would not think of any of them has being particularly hard at all.
Interesting video, and I live thousands of miles away! This complex signal system is due for modernization to one that is more straightforward and intuitive.
Maybe they will upgrade but I have not heard of such myself. Recents works have used the traditional signals.
@@tressteleg1 they aren't to far off implementing high capacity signalling
Wait and see.
It is a pity there is no heart to to speed trams through traffic lights.
Many thanks for a great video cheer's bob.
Out of curiosity, what happens when the crossing is marked to "go"? (Usually)
Does it get converted into a flyover? An overpass? An underpass? Or just plain removed?
I have no idea. The government website does not go into details.
Thanks for the refresher course ! ;)
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another great vid, thanks for explaining the signals tressteleg1
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Are there any V line driver view videos on UA-cam?
I don’t know any VLine drivers so there is nothing from me.
Try House Train, who covers both Metro and VLine.
(1) The first train stopped at no stations. Was it a training ride? (2) By "removal" do you mean converted to overpass or simply eliminated? Thanks.
asteiner321 It was simply an empty cars run to an outer station where it would enter service for the day.
While a few crossings were eliminated, most were replaced by a bridge under or over the rail line.
With all of these line upgrades, i think it's time to upgrade the signals to digital sign boards, this would be much clearer and easier to understand than learning and deciphering all of these signals as well as watching for speed boards.
Digital sign boards? Never heard of that.
It was just an idea that popped into my head whilst watching this.
But i do feel that Driver signalling is overdue for an upgrade and with everything else analog it's due to be digitalised so why not digital electronic boards with a speed and warning(clear/caution/stop etc).
In Munich they have now head up displays on the Windscreen for the driver. There are all informations including signals.
The signals at the track are going away.
I believe that in-cab displays are the way of the future. I don’t think any railways here are doing that yet but maybe some are experimenting. That system would be more important in places with a lot of foggy weather.
Sydney is installing ETCS level 2 on the airport and Illawarra line (and slowly the whole network) which uses in cab signalling. (Although less dense parts of the network will still use lineside signalling).
The cross river rail in Brisbane is supposed to be doing something similar? (Although they might still use Line-side signalling).
The metro tunnel in Melbourne may also not have signals on it, as all the new trains should be able to use in cab signalling.
But yes, all five commuter rail systems in Australia are doing some kind of experimentation with the technology.
Although it is likely that they will bypass the signalling system altogether, instead, getting the driver to just press a button and have the train do all the work. This will have the benefit of higher frequencies and potentially faster journey times, but it will mean that driving a train could get really boring.
Why are there 3 tracks south of Glenhuntly not 2 or 4? What is 3rd track for?
For extra capacity and some express running in the direction of peak hour travel. Trains can use one of the tracks in either direction.
During off peak times only the two western tracks are used (generally). In these times the far eastern track can be used for freight services or other non-passenger trains. During peak times, the normal services will use the two outer tracks and express services will use the centre track (generally).
Thanks for your more detailed explanation.
Unless it has changed, the two outer tracks are single direction running while the centre track can be run in either direction. So, in the morning, two tracks head into the city and in the afternoon, the centre track "turns around" so that two tracks are then available for the peak for everyone going home from the city.
@@pwhnckexstflajizdryvombqug9042 It was this that caught out an on duty policeman on North Rd many years ago. A train was stopped on the centre line in the down direction when another express empties ran on the down line. The policeman with lights on going through the activated crossing didn't see the empties because of the stopper on the centre line until it was too late, or not at all. Unfortunately, his wife, also a police person, heard of this over the police radio. It was after this that emergency services were banned from going through activated crossings.
Can you do videos of on Sandringham Line please
I will have to see what I have in stock.
Where was everyone on the stations? And how come you didn’t stop?
Everybody was still in bed. The train was sent to Mordialloc running empty without passengers. I’m not a driver. A friend videos these for me.
It would have been sent express from the city to Mordialloc to get there as fast as possible so it could pick up passengers going back to the city.
Where are all the passengers at stations 🚉
Still at home in bed.
I can see that the Stony Point sprinter has its red marker lights on but doesn't the rear or the sprinter need to be protected by a red flag or has the regulation regarding occupied platforms been done away with?
I have no idea what the rules are, but the electric train coming in behind the sprinter is obviously a daily occurrence.
I love watching your videos. I recently applied for the trainee train driver position and i think this is great learning material for that. Can you please tell the process after you pass the online test? I was told between 1 - 12 months i would hear something. How long did it take for you?
I never was a train driver. I used to drive trams. I expect that Metro likes to have a reserve of successful applicants so that they can commence training any time they have a need for new drivers depending on how many existing drivers quit or retire.
@@tressteleg1 Why are these level crossings being removed?
Mostly to make things easier for all the motorists.
@@tressteleg1 Thanks for the response. Cheers from Kent.
Is it possible to do a cragieburn line video?
I checked and only have a few video scraps on that branch. Maybe I will have more after the next visit south.
The track speeds seem to be a bit of a snails pace... compared to our 130km/h up here in Queensland on parts of the Gold Coast and Sunshine Coast lines, hell, even getting out of the City it seems faster up here. At least melbourne has a relatively large rail & tram system, at the same time, neither Melbourne or Brisbane's commuter rail network compares with Perth with it's high frequency and high speeds...
Nonetheless, it's a good video.
My local rail line is the Gold Coast. While it is certainly fast south of Beenleigh, I think the maximum permitted speesd on the winding sections north of there are too slow. But some lines are pathetically slow. Take a trip to Doomben from Roma St and you will see what I mean. A fit jogger could get there faster. Don’t forget the Springfield line for some good speeds on the new bit.
Are you allowed to drink coffee on these trains as a driver?
Not Aplic I can’t be certain but I suspect not because of the fear that it might gets built and coffee get into the Control Panel. Definitely no smoking.
great video tressteleg1 :)
😊👍
Not good Scheduling getting a stopper in front of a non-stopper
The non-stopper was an empty cars run so it did not matter. There is little express running in Melbourne, especially outside the peak hours.
@@tressteleg1 cheers
If you can get more videos when trains are running on empty it will save you on editing time....
It's Mystikal btw..... It appears that L.C are nearly gone from the Frankston line
I like the express runs too but I can only post what the driver gives me on my annual trip south. There are still 11 crossings to be started or completed. This will help you. levelcrossings.vic.gov.au/projects
Nice one.
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Why Metro trains so slow, as UK are fast and Japan narrow gauge are fast as well.....its time metro trains handle high speed. About time most sleepers now Concrete as some rails are not even..
Most Australian railways have a disease whereby they prefer to run trains more slowly so the chance of them ever being late is much reduced, purely so politicians can get up and say “99% of the trains ran on time last month”. It’s too bad for passengers that trains now with stronger motors are slower than they were in past times. And it seems that the slower the trains normally run, the less drivers feel confident driving faster to catch up (or hate management so much that they do not even try), and added to that is the fear that with conservative speed boards, they will be in trouble for exceeding the limit if they do try to make up time, so run even slower. This is lamentable, but so often the case although there are stretches of faster running. The Gold Coast railway on 3 foot six gauge regularly runs at 140 km/h on the comparatively newly built track but nowhere near this fast on the winding section north of Beenleigh which was laid out in steam days. You will also see some satisfactorily fast running in my Driver’s view Werribee line video. And Melbourne has always been slow anyway.
Great!
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I personally dislike the ‘level crossing removal project’ I think melbournes level crossings is a part of our history, I can agree with some of the WORST ones going, but they’re removing almost all, and I don’t like it.
I can understand your sentiments with that. It seems to me to be totally pointless to remove, for example, the crossings close to Frankston where the Bay is only a couple of hundred metres away. They can’t possibly have much traffic and will be an eyesore for the local residents. Nevertheless I don’t think too many motorists will share your opinion.
Sadly they are removing them mostly for car users. There is a safely aspect too of course. It's pretty difficult to get a car stuck on the tracks when the tracks go under or over.
There are advantages for the trains including no more delays from faulty or broken boom gates, cars stuck on the tracks and all sorts of other problems connected with level crossings. However, overall, the motorists are the biggest winners, after they fight with the replacement traffic lights.
They're removing 75 out of 180 level crossings. Doesn't sound like almost all
They aren't paying much attention to smaller lines with lots of crossings because they don't get too many trains and the roads typically aren't used heaps either.
What a Joke, express train on still takes 50 mins to Frankston in this modern age
Compared with Sydney, Melbourne has no idea what an express service is.
Not a fan of a signal system that constantly includes a red as part of normal as it seems rather counterintuitive, but I suppose you'd get used to it.
While I found it interesting, it brings home to me how primitive our systems are compared with somewhere like the Netherlands, for example. They don't have speed boards as it's all linked directly to the train's speedometer in the cab (the idea we rely on something as prone to error as human memory seems pretty ridiculous given for how long superior technological solutions have been available). They have lots of level crossings, but the train speed is still 130-140km/h through them. And so on.
As I said, makes lots of our systems and track (Melb and Syd) look like they belong in the steam age, which of course much of it did.
The only reason I can think of for a fixed Red signal is to show where the signal is if the light above goes out, something which might have happened in the days of kerosene lights.
@@tressteleg1
Would be interesting to know where it came from, as I think NSW and much of the European stuff seem to be the green/red top and green/amber/red bottom system.
Regardless, I think the speed being taken from the track into the cab's speedo along with a bell/tone to indicate the change is more important as it shows the applicable speed limit under all circumstances. Been around for decades and we're still using crappy boards.
I’m probably a bit ‘old hat’ but can think of no good reason to update something that does exactly what is required unless it is too maintenance intensive. The more complex the system, the greater chance there is for a breakdown, the last thing you want in the peak hour. Where bad weather is often a problem with signal sighting, then certainly something better is required.
You seem to be suggesting Automatic train control. That needs a careful selection process to get the most suitable. From what I have read, the new Sydney Metro leaves a lot to be desired with heavy brake applications suddenly happening when the train speed needs to be only gently slowed a bit.
As for where the whacky Melbourne system comes from, it is generally believed to be based on some US practice.
@@tressteleg1
I know about the Dutch system mainly as I have family there and always catch their trains when I get off the plane (the set up is what every airport ought to have with the station easily accessible immediately below the main entrance).
They still have the speed signs as backup. The only difference is the applicable speed limit, either track or signal driven, results in a needle or light on the speedo (they have a number of different types) is immediately reflected in the cab. The driving is entirely manual, and there's a follow up tone once they've reduced the new applicable limit if it's a reduction (there's also an overspeed warning). Of course they get fog and snow to contend with, too, but I believe they've had that system for a long time.
I agree with it all being cost/benefit, and it might be that the much lower speeds on our city lines means the case for such a system simply isn't there, doubly so when retrofitting it would cost a lot and our governments have typically been crap at investing heavily in public transport until more recent times.
Thanks for the discussion, always nice to hear back from the owner of the video.
Cheers
All good. Thanks for the Dutch details. Signalling is a minor rail interest of mine but IF the cab signally was the only way to get more trains per hour through a section of track then the upgrade would be justified.
And that it
Vey slow train
Now you can see why people late for work.
When the nonstop train caught up to the all stations train ahead, it had to run much slower.
Already 7:27 at Caulfield. A lot of people would have already been heading in the other direction by now.
And I think that video may have been recorded on a public holiday so everyone was still in bed.
not many brain cells needed to drive a train
Sounds like the words of a snob. If everyone had an IQ of 150, nobody would agree to do more mundane jobs that society needs doing. And what are you? Brain surgeon??
Lot of the rail items look similar to uk.....how,and mores why vandals gotta graffiti electric pylons mad
There are brainless morons defacing property in most countries, unfortunately.
Melbourne's Railways are so badly made.
Most Australian railways were built on the cheap well over 100 years ago. Melbourne falls down on often inadequate maintenance and being happy with slow running speeds.
@@tressteleg1 yh ik but why isn't the railway one gradient? If it was one gradient you wouldn't have so many crossroads.