I appreciate your enthusiasm for this game! I just wanted to chime in as a scientist (with the caveat that I could be totally wrong)... I interpreted the vouchers as "funding". I saw it as obtaining funding from the government (e.g., NSF grants) and funding from private foundations for the other locations. From my perspective as a scientist this makes the most sense, especially with the emphasis on publishing (complete with citations!), as well as the possibility of being awarded a Nobel Prize. It also makes sense you would need to publish before building a prototype - you need to have done the research (gain the knowledge) to be able to build a successful prototype. Anyway, just my two cents worth. :-) Excellent review! I have also been enjoying this game, and it's my first Lacerda!
The theme complaints I hear tend to come from people who think this is a game where your goal is to fix the weather. It’s not. It’s a game about the scientific process and coordinating across government and private interests to gather data, learn and develop better tech.
THIS has been the review I've been anxiously awaiting!! Absolutely love that you are shouting from the mountain tops about the theme. I found this to be among my top gaming experiences of the year. Even multiple plays later I'm still working on my efficiencies and finding more and more to discover.
Thank you for the playthrough Rhado, I'm glad you enjoyed the game so much. :) I spent 2+ years playtesting on Weather Machine on an almost weekly basis. It's very rewarding to me when I see people enjoy the game so much. :)
The "voucher" vs. "authorization" observation is great insight! I think the effects of "R&D" are the other area that isn't thematically intuitive (though it makes sense if you think about it enough).
It was a lot more specific scoring-wise which, to me, is nice change compared to “point salads” from a bunch of scoring goals. There are goals in this but, you just get 5p each in endgame from a pretty tight scoring goals. So instead, you need to really focus on what your opponents are doing and timing that endgame to benefit your score. 3 of the 4 endgame triggers are player controlled, so you wouldn’t want to trigger it until you have a substantial lead. IRRC, Lisboa is kind of similar where the player’s usually do something to trigger the end, but even more so in this which in my opinion makes this pretty strategic despite it’s “narrow” scoring.
Great review! Finally a reviewer that sees the beauty of this design! The gallerist is still my favourite, but this game is also very very good. My only complaint is that the game is better for 3 people than for 2. I do not really regard it as the ideal 2-player Lacerda.
hmm, for me i don't think that would work either. "authorizations" is the best term i think for thematic clarity (it's what they'd be call irl: "do you have your authorization form filled out?", but it's unfortunately a long and cumbersome word! :)
someone else in the comments (an actual scientist) suggested calling them funds, which makes perfect sense to me. can't do the stuff if i don't get funding, can get additional funding by doing what the company wants, or by talking to the doctor, or by having your work delayed because someone else was using a department first :)
Oh, interesting thoughts on the weight of this game (you might have seen my comment on the 1st playthrough video). Maybe once I get a play in it'll all come together. Although I find On Mars and Lisboa heavier than Kanban/Vinhos/Gallerist, I thought Lisboa was so elegant that it felt smooth and On Mars the theme just made a lot of sense to me. I'm excited to get Weather Machine to the table! Thanks for the vids!
Yeah it seems that it's weight rating is stabilizing at round 4.55 on BGG which is perplexing to me. During playtesting the predominant opinion was that it's in the same weight class as The Gallerist and Vinhos and I agree.
I wish there was a good way to measure weight. I found this very heavy at first. I've only played Lisboa once, it was certainly very heavy too. I surprised that many think On Mars very heavy though, I found that one pretty easy to learn and play. They're all very good games, I need to get The Gallerist, Vinhos and Kanban EV played, they're all on my shelves :)
This is the best review ok Weather Machine, i had my doubts, now i know i wanna get it; And the most important thing that the video have for me is that I feel prepared so that the game doesn't take me off guard and I know what to expect. Thnks!
@@rahdo Thanks. That is exactly the reasoning I used in purchasing Weather Machine as my first Lacerda. Second choices probably would have been The Gallerist or CO2: Second Chance. Meanwhile, both cars and wine are huge turnoffs for me in gaming, as well as life in general.
I think a lot of people will comment on you understading of voucher, and I am one more, I know that the meaning used in the game is an unusual one, however, it means exactly what you would like it to mean, from the Merriam-Webster dictionary, the fourth meaning for the word is: " a written affidavit or authorization : CERTIFICATE". Thank you for the amazing review. As always, your content is fantastic.
the problem is that it's a technically correct use of the word, but in terms of day to day use, NO ONE uses the word that way and if fact it generally shows up in common usage it only shows up in a completley different circumstnace, which contributes to the misunderstanding around the theme of the game.
Great Final thoughts Video! I am on the fence of buying this but I hesitate because maaany people say the 2 player version of the game is not good. What do you think about this? At what player count did you play Weather machine, and at what player count do you prefer it?
i would agree if they said that higher player count is cooler because there's more opportunity for overlap when working on projects, but i would not agree that 2p is not good. it's still a great game at that count... you just rely on yourself more instead of others :) and given my choice, i'd probably play 2p because the game is faster that way!
I thought the theme was quite more cynical : scientists focusing in publishing papers, up to the point of winning the Nobel prize, while they don't solve any problems 🤣
i think that is a 100% valid interpretation. you don't trigger the game end by 'solving' the weather crisis. you trigger the end by winning the nobel prize!
@@rahdo I just have a couple of 2 players-game, so I am basically new and want to explore with 3/4. The thing that bugged me most in terms of theme is, you don't get an extra-reward when you actually "solve" an extreme weather card. You fill the spot on it, you get the bonus, but you don't have any sense of particular accomplishement because you discarded the extreme weather card: all the participants should have a little extra. It could be a science voucher, any small bonus, but hey, thank you guys, thanks to you the world is better place.
This might be fine at 2 player count, but at 4 player it is not as enjoyable as Gallerist and Kanban EV in my opinion. Your comments in respect of theme relate to your knowledge of how to play, which is obviously a lot greater than 3/4 people being taught the game on a club night. It is a clever game but in the absence of clear theme (for new players) like Gallerist or Kanban EV for example, then nothing seems intuitive on a first play. I assume that you are looking at it from the perspective of someone who has at least a couple plays and has learnt the rules to be able to teach. If you don’t own the game you are not going to be in a position to readily appreciate the theme. (It was the first KS I didn’t pledge - following the review by Monique and Naveen). [The person that taught us is excellent and “assisted” 4 of us play his copy following a couple of previous 2 player games by him to learn the rules]. The game is definitely clever but it also needs to be fun enough to want it to be played another 2 or 3 times. I would rather play Gallerist, Kanban EV or On Mars and I will still be looking forward to his next heavy game. I would imagine that the number of games you buy / are in your game collection might also determine the amount of time you will be prepared to allocate to get to grips with this game. Unfortunately this did’t feel fun enough or worth 3 or 4 repeat club nights playing it in order to get to the stage of wanting to say “can you fetch Weather Machine to play again “ for a future club night.
most folks seem to think the game is better with more than 2 as there's more opportunities for you to work with your opponents on the machines (would love to try it myself someday). and i don't have any special knowledge about the theme that's not there for all to see (other than my thing about how "vouchers" should be called "authorizations", in my opinion, to make the theme resonate a bit more strongly). but if i were teaching this to 1, 2 or 3 players, they would get a fully thematically grounded explanation because this game is IMO just as strongly thematic as any of vital's previous big games. there's a machine that controls the local weather but makes bad weather happens elsewhere. you need to help the govt build their own weather machines to counteract this, or create your own prototype to do so. but in the meantime, the main weather machine will still be run because it provides the scientific data needed to create the other machiens. and since you work for a corporation, you need managerial authorization to get anything done. that's the theme in a nutshell and everything grows out of that, gameplay-wise.
There is a discussion on BGG by people who work in science stating that this game does an excellent job of simulating that process, of which I also concur (In my previous career I was a published and patent holding satellite oceanographer.) Unfortunately so many people have little insight into that world. Personally I think it's great as I can't think of another game that really simulates the work of scientific research. The few that come to mind seem to be one or two step abstracted mechanisms that don't feel at all like scientific research.
I appreciate your enthusiasm for this game! I just wanted to chime in as a scientist (with the caveat that I could be totally wrong)... I interpreted the vouchers as "funding". I saw it as obtaining funding from the government (e.g., NSF grants) and funding from private foundations for the other locations. From my perspective as a scientist this makes the most sense, especially with the emphasis on publishing (complete with citations!), as well as the possibility of being awarded a Nobel Prize. It also makes sense you would need to publish before building a prototype - you need to have done the research (gain the knowledge) to be able to build a successful prototype. Anyway, just my two cents worth. :-) Excellent review! I have also been enjoying this game, and it's my first Lacerda!
I like that too!!!! :)
I had to laugh at the german rules that call them coupons.
The theme complaints I hear tend to come from people who think this is a game where your goal is to fix the weather. It’s not. It’s a game about the scientific process and coordinating across government and private interests to gather data, learn and develop better tech.
very good observation! :)
Should make it more clear in the rulebook. Definitely misleading
THIS has been the review I've been anxiously awaiting!! Absolutely love that you are shouting from the mountain tops about the theme. I found this to be among my top gaming experiences of the year. Even multiple plays later I'm still working on my efficiencies and finding more and more to discover.
You are soo good at explaining your “Final thoughts” Rahdo 👍 Thanks for sharing. Game looks fantastic.
Thank you for the playthrough Rhado, I'm glad you enjoyed the game so much. :) I spent 2+ years playtesting on Weather Machine on an almost weekly basis. It's very rewarding to me when I see people enjoy the game so much. :)
The "voucher" vs. "authorization" observation is great insight! I think the effects of "R&D" are the other area that isn't thematically intuitive (though it makes sense if you think about it enough).
Thank you so much for your thoughts on Weather Machine!
Rahdo - at your best and Ive been watching you for years! Thanks for this exhaustive review - superb!
Finally a game I have played before you, Rahdo!
Amen to alternatives to player-driven end game conditions. So many games suffer from that problem. I'm looking at you, Corrosion.
Played it for the first time today and this final thoughts video is almost a perfect match to my experience!
glad to hear i'm not alone!
Great review! I love Vital Lacerda, but On Mars and Vinhos remain my favorites.
It was a lot more specific scoring-wise which, to me, is nice change compared to “point salads” from a bunch of scoring goals. There are goals in this but, you just get 5p each in endgame from a pretty tight scoring goals.
So instead, you need to really focus on what your opponents are doing and timing that endgame to benefit your score. 3 of the 4 endgame triggers are player controlled, so you wouldn’t want to trigger it until you have a substantial lead.
IRRC, Lisboa is kind of similar where the player’s usually do something to trigger the end, but even more so in this which in my opinion makes this pretty strategic despite it’s “narrow” scoring.
Mmm Kanban EV is my favorite game. It's delicious. I'm excited to play this, Gallerist, and Escape Plan
A lot of kanban vibes from this one, really enjoyed it
Great review! Finally a reviewer that sees the beauty of this design! The gallerist is still my favourite, but this game is also very very good. My only complaint is that the game is better for 3 people than for 2. I do not really regard it as the ideal 2-player Lacerda.
Thanks for that opinion. Which is his best 2 player, in your book? Gallerist?
@@tmcd5049 I am not the person you asked, but I think Kanban EV is great with two, and Lisboa as well
Yes, this bugs me as I only ever have the option of playing games like these at 2 players. Otherwise I'd have long since gotten it!
For a while we call them Licences.
hmm, for me i don't think that would work either. "authorizations" is the best term i think for thematic clarity (it's what they'd be call irl: "do you have your authorization form filled out?", but it's unfortunately a long and cumbersome word! :)
oh and congratulations once again on a wonderful game! :)
@@rahdo or even more simply call them a 'pass' - love the game!!
@@rahdo if I remember correctly they were also called 'permits' at one point. I still use that in my teaches of the game.
someone else in the comments (an actual scientist) suggested calling them funds, which makes perfect sense to me. can't do the stuff if i don't get funding, can get additional funding by doing what the company wants, or by talking to the doctor, or by having your work delayed because someone else was using a department first :)
Oh, interesting thoughts on the weight of this game (you might have seen my comment on the 1st playthrough video). Maybe once I get a play in it'll all come together. Although I find On Mars and Lisboa heavier than Kanban/Vinhos/Gallerist, I thought Lisboa was so elegant that it felt smooth and On Mars the theme just made a lot of sense to me. I'm excited to get Weather Machine to the table! Thanks for the vids!
Yeah it seems that it's weight rating is stabilizing at round 4.55 on BGG which is perplexing to me. During playtesting the predominant opinion was that it's in the same weight class as The Gallerist and Vinhos and I agree.
I wish there was a good way to measure weight. I found this very heavy at first. I've only played Lisboa once, it was certainly very heavy too. I surprised that many think On Mars very heavy though, I found that one pretty easy to learn and play. They're all very good games, I need to get The Gallerist, Vinhos and Kanban EV played, they're all on my shelves :)
This is the best review ok Weather Machine, i had my doubts, now i know i wanna get it; And the most important thing that the video have for me is that I feel prepared so that the game doesn't take me off guard and I know what to expect. Thnks!
yeah, a lot of folks really get started off on the wrong foot with this one. glad i could help a bit :)
I think that by "voucher" they mean some document that proves someone vouches for you, that you have someone's support.
If I only could buy ONE Vital Lacerda game (I've never played any!), which one should be considered?
i'd say to choose based on whichever theme you like most, as they're all excellent :)
@@rahdo Then it's gotta be either Vinhos or The Gallerist for me :)
@@rahdo Thanks. That is exactly the reasoning I used in purchasing Weather Machine as my first Lacerda. Second choices probably would have been The Gallerist or CO2: Second Chance. Meanwhile, both cars and wine are huge turnoffs for me in gaming, as well as life in general.
I think a lot of people will comment on you understading of voucher, and I am one more, I know that the meaning used in the game is an unusual one, however, it means exactly what you would like it to mean, from the Merriam-Webster dictionary, the fourth meaning for the word is: " a written affidavit or authorization : CERTIFICATE". Thank you for the amazing review. As always, your content is fantastic.
the problem is that it's a technically correct use of the word, but in terms of day to day use, NO ONE uses the word that way and if fact it generally shows up in common usage it only shows up in a completley different circumstnace, which contributes to the misunderstanding around the theme of the game.
Great Final thoughts Video! I am on the fence of buying this but I hesitate because maaany people say the 2 player version of the game is not good. What do you think about this? At what player count did you play Weather machine, and at what player count do you prefer it?
i would agree if they said that higher player count is cooler because there's more opportunity for overlap when working on projects, but i would not agree that 2p is not good. it's still a great game at that count... you just rely on yourself more instead of others :)
and given my choice, i'd probably play 2p because the game is faster that way!
@@rahdoThank you for your opinion!
I thought the theme was quite more cynical : scientists focusing in publishing papers, up to the point of winning the Nobel prize, while they don't solve any problems 🤣
i think that is a 100% valid interpretation. you don't trigger the game end by 'solving' the weather crisis. you trigger the end by winning the nobel prize!
@@rahdo I just have a couple of 2 players-game, so I am basically new and want to explore with 3/4. The thing that bugged me most in terms of theme is, you don't get an extra-reward when you actually "solve" an extreme weather card. You fill the spot on it, you get the bonus, but you don't have any sense of particular accomplishement because you discarded the extreme weather card: all the participants should have a little extra. It could be a science voucher, any small bonus, but hey, thank you guys, thanks to you the world is better place.
This might be fine at 2 player count, but at 4 player it is not as enjoyable as Gallerist and Kanban EV in my opinion. Your comments in respect of theme relate to your knowledge of how to play, which is obviously a lot greater than 3/4 people being taught the game on a club night. It is a clever game but in the absence of clear theme (for new players) like Gallerist or Kanban EV for example, then nothing seems intuitive on a first play. I assume that you are looking at it from the perspective of someone who has at least a couple plays and has learnt the rules to be able to teach. If you don’t own the game you are not going to be in a position to readily appreciate the theme. (It was the first KS I didn’t pledge - following the review by Monique and Naveen). [The person that taught us is excellent and “assisted” 4 of us play his copy following a couple of previous 2 player games by him to learn the rules]. The game is definitely clever but it also needs to be fun enough to want it to be played another 2 or 3 times. I would rather play Gallerist, Kanban EV or On Mars and I will still be looking forward to his next heavy game. I would imagine that the number of games you buy / are in your game collection might also determine the amount of time you will be prepared to allocate to get to grips with this game. Unfortunately this did’t feel fun enough or worth 3 or 4 repeat club nights playing it in order to get to the stage of wanting to say “can you fetch Weather Machine to play again “ for a future club night.
most folks seem to think the game is better with more than 2 as there's more opportunities for you to work with your opponents on the machines (would love to try it myself someday). and i don't have any special knowledge about the theme that's not there for all to see (other than my thing about how "vouchers" should be called "authorizations", in my opinion, to make the theme resonate a bit more strongly). but if i were teaching this to 1, 2 or 3 players, they would get a fully thematically grounded explanation because this game is IMO just as strongly thematic as any of vital's previous big games. there's a machine that controls the local weather but makes bad weather happens elsewhere. you need to help the govt build their own weather machines to counteract this, or create your own prototype to do so. but in the meantime, the main weather machine will still be run because it provides the scientific data needed to create the other machiens. and since you work for a corporation, you need managerial authorization to get anything done. that's the theme in a nutshell and everything grows out of that, gameplay-wise.
There is a discussion on BGG by people who work in science stating that this game does an excellent job of simulating that process, of which I also concur (In my previous career I was a published and patent holding satellite oceanographer.) Unfortunately so many people have little insight into that world. Personally I think it's great as I can't think of another game that really simulates the work of scientific research. The few that come to mind seem to be one or two step abstracted mechanisms that don't feel at all like scientific research.
Actually the predominant opinion among fans (and I concur) is that it's best at 4P where the gameplay is at its tightest.
@@modemacabre The New Science
Please retry Lisboa, it is his best. Your turn: play a card, draw a card. Thats all :-)
hehe, there are a few knock-on effects from playing that card :)