I know which seller you’re talking about. I called it out too haha. It really is important for people to realize that not every vintage flex nib is a “wet noodle.” Haven’t posted in the group in a while but it’s nice to check in. -Tyler Pomorin
I saw your comment on her post in my group earlier today, in fact. I'm glad that you spoke up about it. This is a very important topic, and no one ever talks about it because it is potentially contentious, but I really think that we who care about and know how to use these nibs properly and safely should do what we can to educate sellers, buyers and users of these nibs about how to use and care for these nibs so that they will be around for as long as possible. I'm very glad that you're in the group, and I look forward to your next post or comment.
If it was standardized that Flex nibs were tested on a scale, we could see how hard sellers were pushing the pens. Of course some pens can handle more weight than others, but it would be a sort of reference. One could advertise an ultra flexible nib by how little weight it requires to achieve line variation without pushing it to the limit.
There doesn't need to be a standardized scale. Sellers like David Nishimura do an excellent job of describing how much effort is required to make a nib flex, how much it can flex safely, and how much pressure is required to flex the nib along the curve of its flexion from barely flexing the nib to flexing it to its safe maximum degree of flexion, and they show photographed writing samples demonstrating the capabilities of these nibs when used safely and in a manner consistent with their intended use as demonstrated by manufacturer literature and a large sample of writing examples made with these nibs when they were new.
Thank you for pointing this out. In general, there needs to be more awareness of how to handle vintage flex fountain pen nibs. I'm guessing the woman who sells the pens, is either really ignorant, or doesn't care. Just curious, how did the person respond to the feedback from others? ps May I ask, what was the vintage fountain pen that was used as an example? That type of nib, is exactly what I'm looking for ! 😍 How much are they in the current market? And is it true, that even with the same vintage pen and nib, you won't get the exact nib feel? And is it possible, to get that type of nib in a less expensive body? Say around $300 😂
I'm glad to point this out. As I said in the video, it's an important topic, and nobody ever talks about it, and a big part of why I make these videos and run my Facebook group is to increase awareness of how to use vintage flex fountain pens. If the woman who sells these pens had just started I could chalk it up to ignorance, but she has been selling vintage flex fountain pens for at least eight years, and I believe that it has been significantly longer than that. A respected seller who I've done business with for seven years now has said that she has been called out repeatedly over the years for overflexing her nibs, and she still hasn't changed her ways. I hate to say it, but she appears not to care. If a nib doesn't naturally and safely flex to an extreme degree, and a writing sample demonstrating its line variation doesn't demonstrate extreme line variation, she won't be able to sell that pen as quickly and reliably as she would have had its line variation been exaggerated. When people made comments in the group she responded by being defensive when she thought she could get away with it and no one would challenge her, and then she played dumb and innocent when she was challenged. As I said, she has had too many opportunities to learn her lesson for her behavior to be the result of ignorance. When you ask which pen was used as an example, it's not clear to which pen you are referring, but I'll assume that you're talking about the one that I used in this video, because in your next sentence you said that its nib is exactly what you're looking for. As I've said so many times, there is almost no correlation between the nib and the pen that it came in. This takes so long to explain, but very briefly, if the pen in question has the correct make, model, and period correct nib installed, the older the fountain pen, the greater the likelihood that its nib will be flexible, and the greater the likelihood that it will be more flexible than later versions. Fountain pen manufacturers made a tremendous number of different nib styles. Some manufacturers during certain periods tended to make more nibs that are flexible than other companies. Waterman's seemed incapable of making even a manifold nib without at least a little bit of flex all the way through the forties. Wahl made a lot of great flexible nibs during the forties and earlier. Parker made some exquisite flexible nibs in non-Duofold pens from the 1920s and earlier, Sheaffer did too before 1923, when they introduced their Lifetime pen that was guaranteed for life. This pen in this video is a Waterman's 412 from about 1908 or a little later. Fountain pens from this period with flexible nibs tend to be more flexible and have a more springy return, which is great for getting hairlines and a sharp and immediate contrast between thick and thin lines. This pen in good user grade condition would sell for around $350 currently. Vintage fountain pen prices fluctuate. If you look around you can find a plain black hard rubber version of this pen, a 12, for around $200. Go to pen shows to get more selection and to try them before you buy them, or at least develop a great relationship with a trustworthy seller or collector. People you can trust are me, Myk Daigle, David Nishimura, Trevis Young, Syd Saperstein of Pensbury Manor, etc. There are others, too. I don't understand your question about whether or not it's true that with the same nib and feed you won't get the exact nib feel. If you mean that you can't tell what the feel of a nib will be without using it, that is true. If you mean that no two nibs are the same even when they were intended to be, that is also true of vintage flex fountain pen nibs. Each one was hand finished. They're all different. Again, you really just have to try before you buy, if you can, or buy from people you truly trust.
@@singlesideman I'm sorry to hear the seller is like that. I feel so bad for the misinformation she's spreading, and ALL the pens, she's ruined over the years ! 😣 And yes, the fountain pen I was talking about, was the one you were using. Thank you for giving me a little history of vintage flex fountain pens. I've bought several, which the sellers claimed were pens with high flex. But, they didn't turn out to be. Understood, no two vintage flex nibs are the same. Because each one was hand finished. I learned the hard way to buy from reputable sellers. Btw, if you're ever interested in selling that Waterman 412, please contact me first. 😂
@@SpringNotes you're welcome! I'm glad to share what I can. It is tragic what a lot of vintage flex fountain pen sellers are doing, and we who know it really owe it to the pen community to make it known. It is important to know that few vintage flex fountain pen nibs were made to flex that much, and the degree and frequency of flexing that many people show today is just much too high, and this is shown in both the writing of the period when these pens were new, and also the advertising and literature from these pen companies. Waterman's said in their advertising for their Artist's pen, often considered the ne plus ultra of flexible fountain pen nibs, that it could flex "up to 1/32 inch or more" which is only 0.8 mm, nowhere near the much greater widths of 1.8 mm or even more that so many of these unscrupulous sellers and ignorant users demonstrate. I do have some extremely flexible nibs that do flex up to 1.8 mm, and safely, but they are very uncommon. It is also worth knowing that very fine nibs that don't have nearly as much line variation as this make very elegant lines, and they should get much more attention and love because they really do make very elegant lines. You have to listen to a nib, feel it as it glides on the paper, and it will tell you how it wants to be used. It may scream or it may whisper, but you have to learn to listen to your nib, not so much literally, but figuratively, by getting the feel of the nib on paper. You should be able to write naturally, easily with the pen - you shouldn't have to slow way down to a crawl in order to press down unnaturally hard. You should be able to write, at speed, with no pressure at all and with only some some pressure, but not a lot, at just the right points, and during the downstroke only.
What stakes do you find low in this case? I presume that the unpleasantness you're referring to is the unpleasantness I endured in this situation, yes?
I know which seller you’re talking about. I called it out too haha. It really is important for people to realize that not every vintage flex nib is a “wet noodle.” Haven’t posted in the group in a while but it’s nice to check in.
-Tyler Pomorin
I saw your comment on her post in my group earlier today, in fact. I'm glad that you spoke up about it. This is a very important topic, and no one ever talks about it because it is potentially contentious, but I really think that we who care about and know how to use these nibs properly and safely should do what we can to educate sellers, buyers and users of these nibs about how to use and care for these nibs so that they will be around for as long as possible. I'm very glad that you're in the group, and I look forward to your next post or comment.
If it was standardized that Flex nibs were tested on a scale, we could see how hard sellers were pushing the pens. Of course some pens can handle more weight than others, but it would be a sort of reference. One could advertise an ultra flexible nib by how little weight it requires to achieve line variation without pushing it to the limit.
There doesn't need to be a standardized scale. Sellers like David Nishimura do an excellent job of describing how much effort is required to make a nib flex, how much it can flex safely, and how much pressure is required to flex the nib along the curve of its flexion from barely flexing the nib to flexing it to its safe maximum degree of flexion, and they show photographed writing samples demonstrating the capabilities of these nibs when used safely and in a manner consistent with their intended use as demonstrated by manufacturer literature and a large sample of writing examples made with these nibs when they were new.
what music do you have in the background?
It's mine, from my album 'The Terra Collection'. It's available on Bandcamp.
Thank you for pointing this out. In general, there needs to be more awareness of how to handle vintage flex fountain pen nibs.
I'm guessing the woman who sells the pens, is either really ignorant, or doesn't care. Just curious, how did the person respond to the feedback from others?
ps May I ask, what was the vintage fountain pen that was used as an example? That type of nib, is exactly what I'm looking for ! 😍
How much are they in the current market? And is it true, that even with the same vintage pen and nib, you won't get the exact nib feel? And is it possible, to get that type of nib in a less expensive body? Say around $300 😂
I'm glad to point this out. As I said in the video, it's an important topic, and nobody ever talks about it, and a big part of why I make these videos and run my Facebook group is to increase awareness of how to use vintage flex fountain pens.
If the woman who sells these pens had just started I could chalk it up to ignorance, but she has been selling vintage flex fountain pens for at least eight years, and I believe that it has been significantly longer than that. A respected seller who I've done business with for seven years now has said that she has been called out repeatedly over the years for overflexing her nibs, and she still hasn't changed her ways. I hate to say it, but she appears not to care. If a nib doesn't naturally and safely flex to an extreme degree, and a writing sample demonstrating its line variation doesn't demonstrate extreme line variation, she won't be able to sell that pen as quickly and reliably as she would have had its line variation been exaggerated. When people made comments in the group she responded by being defensive when she thought she could get away with it and no one would challenge her, and then she played dumb and innocent when she was challenged. As I said, she has had too many opportunities to learn her lesson for her behavior to be the result of ignorance.
When you ask which pen was used as an example, it's not clear to which pen you are referring, but I'll assume that you're talking about the one that I used in this video, because in your next sentence you said that its nib is exactly what you're looking for. As I've said so many times, there is almost no correlation between the nib and the pen that it came in. This takes so long to explain, but very briefly, if the pen in question has the correct make, model, and period correct nib installed, the older the fountain pen, the greater the likelihood that its nib will be flexible, and the greater the likelihood that it will be more flexible than later versions. Fountain pen manufacturers made a tremendous number of different nib styles. Some manufacturers during certain periods tended to make more nibs that are flexible than other companies. Waterman's seemed incapable of making even a manifold nib without at least a little bit of flex all the way through the forties. Wahl made a lot of great flexible nibs during the forties and earlier. Parker made some exquisite flexible nibs in non-Duofold pens from the 1920s and earlier, Sheaffer did too before 1923, when they introduced their Lifetime pen that was guaranteed for life. This pen in this video is a Waterman's 412 from about 1908 or a little later. Fountain pens from this period with flexible nibs tend to be more flexible and have a more springy return, which is great for getting hairlines and a sharp and immediate contrast between thick and thin lines. This pen in good user grade condition would sell for around $350 currently. Vintage fountain pen prices fluctuate. If you look around you can find a plain black hard rubber version of this pen, a 12, for around $200. Go to pen shows to get more selection and to try them before you buy them, or at least develop a great relationship with a trustworthy seller or collector. People you can trust are me, Myk Daigle, David Nishimura, Trevis Young, Syd Saperstein of Pensbury Manor, etc. There are others, too. I don't understand your question about whether or not it's true that with the same nib and feed you won't get the exact nib feel. If you mean that you can't tell what the feel of a nib will be without using it, that is true. If you mean that no two nibs are the same even when they were intended to be, that is also true of vintage flex fountain pen nibs. Each one was hand finished. They're all different. Again, you really just have to try before you buy, if you can, or buy from people you truly trust.
@@singlesideman I'm sorry to hear the seller is like that. I feel so bad for the misinformation she's spreading, and ALL the pens, she's ruined over the years ! 😣
And yes, the fountain pen I was talking about, was the one you were using. Thank you for giving me a little history of vintage flex fountain pens. I've bought several, which the sellers claimed were pens with high flex. But, they didn't turn out to be.
Understood, no two vintage flex nibs are the same. Because each one was hand finished.
I learned the hard way to buy from reputable sellers. Btw, if you're ever interested in selling that Waterman 412, please contact me first. 😂
@@SpringNotes you're welcome! I'm glad to share what I can. It is tragic what a lot of vintage flex fountain pen sellers are doing, and we who know it really owe it to the pen community to make it known. It is important to know that few vintage flex fountain pen nibs were made to flex that much, and the degree and frequency of flexing that many people show today is just much too high, and this is shown in both the writing of the period when these pens were new, and also the advertising and literature from these pen companies. Waterman's said in their advertising for their Artist's pen, often considered the ne plus ultra of flexible fountain pen nibs, that it could flex "up to 1/32 inch or more" which is only 0.8 mm, nowhere near the much greater widths of 1.8 mm or even more that so many of these unscrupulous sellers and ignorant users demonstrate. I do have some extremely flexible nibs that do flex up to 1.8 mm, and safely, but they are very uncommon. It is also worth knowing that very fine nibs that don't have nearly as much line variation as this make very elegant lines, and they should get much more attention and love because they really do make very elegant lines. You have to listen to a nib, feel it as it glides on the paper, and it will tell you how it wants to be used. It may scream or it may whisper, but you have to learn to listen to your nib, not so much literally, but figuratively, by getting the feel of the nib on paper. You should be able to write naturally, easily with the pen - you shouldn't have to slow way down to a crawl in order to press down unnaturally hard. You should be able to write, at speed, with no pressure at all and with only some some pressure, but not a lot, at just the right points, and during the downstroke only.
@@SpringNotes I'll keep you in mind if I ever decide to sell this pen, but it is definitely a favorite of mine
@@singlesideman Thank you again for this valuable information !
the lower the stakes, the higher the level of people's potential... unpleasantness.
What stakes do you find low in this case? I presume that the unpleasantness you're referring to is the unpleasantness I endured in this situation, yes?