I had that same video in my recommended feed and didn’t click on it because I just had a feeling it would be questionable at best. Also I know why I suck at adc lmao. Thanks for the content mate and I appreciate your respectful tone and open mindedness approaching different points of view. Other people would have dismissed the skill capped video entirely or attacked them directly. Keep up the good work
The reason the clips dont match up is because their editor doesnt really understand/play league. Just go off what they are actually saying. I only know because in one of their challenge videos or something they used their editor as a ‘noob’ and he didnt really know what any of the champs did/ who they were.
Loved that you really tried to experimient it, even when you were super skeptical at the beginning. Talking about my experience, because before seeing your videos I used to see Skillcapped videos before, I can say that my macro got better when I tried to apply skillcap's strat. Here's my attempt to explain: as a low elo player, your first (and may I say ONLY) thought is once lane phase is over go to the ARAM, have random fights until one team snowballs out of control and ends game. With this strat, I feel like you completely remove that thought at the beginning and start focusing on farming and gathering resources and it makes you realize the importance of gathering those resources because it makes you be ahead more often than not (levels/ items). But as you mentioned, there are times where you feel like you're just trolling split pushing, so you start trying to get a good blend between gathering resources and joining your team to fight... therefore developing better macro.
I fully agree! Even as a Master player I want to say it helped open my eyes to some good macro plays I wasn't going for beforehand. Even if one of the two strats is better between full ARAM and full split, I think it could be beneficial to practice both for a time and try to learn to merge them into the best of both worlds.
Before watching Ill just say that "splitpushing" is a relative term to me, and if the enemy team can't stop me from pushing in 2 waves and maybe getting tier 2 tower, there's no reason not to exploit that. And if I'm super behind, it's so worth to get 300g in minions and possibly 600 million gold from tier 2 turret and give the enemy less than 300g for me.
I think this is right and Im going to do it, as a low elo adc main I watch all these challenger players telling me what is the right play and doing my very best to copy them when in reality I should soak that info up for if I ever climb higher and for now just do something like this which is technically the wrong way to play it but no one gives af about macro in my elo.
So my pre watch thought about this strategy is that if your team is ahead it does not really matter whether you participate in teamfights or not but when the enemy team is strong, wins a teamfight and you are the only one alive as ADC there is just not much you can do in regards of defending or contesting objectives and add the frustration of your teammates because you didnt group and you are probably looking at a lost game.
Hey, Thanks for the video ! They also did another video on the same topic one year ago where they actually explain the concept better on some questions you bring up in your video. "When do I use this strategy?" "when do I roam?" "When do I teamfight?" "Which champions are better at split pushing?" I find that video way better explained. I don't know why they did the video again but less good.
I saw the video, but I don't recall if they said whether it's an absolute rule to follow or just something to start doing more of. Like in the Sivir games at the beginning of the video. There were definitely some significant benefits to splitpushing, but overcommitting to it was problematic. It just seems like it should be used as a legitimate adaptation to low elo chaos, while still doing regular ADC things when your teammates are doing proper macro. Although, I absolutely love being able to play both games on an ADC, and realizing an option to my teammates constantly cucking me over.
You really did make a video, i didn't expect it to be that soon😅. IMO, I think your mid to bot (or top) to mid is actually the better way to carry if u have a lead in lane (ainly staying mid but rotating for waves). However, split pushing proves really handy if you want to close a 2K gold gap, but in my own experience, it doesnt help you push your lead as much as staying mid.
It's a damn shame you dont get more views on these videos. Your are by far the best educational ADC content creator. You have definetly made me a better player. Appreciate you vapora.
Thanks for the video, Vapora. You really are the top ADC scientist. Story time, now: this is the first season I'm really putting in the effort of playing solo queue in order to rank up, mainly by one-tricking Sivir. The Skillcapped video came out at a specific time when I was in a rut, so I decided they *must* be right. I tried it out and found that it helped a lot in getting back to games, but I still didn't win that many and, to be honest, didn't *feel* like I was playing better. After hearing a lot of people knocking down this strategy, I decided it'd be better to sit down and analyze my games, look at my builds vs Lolalytics and even look at videos of other players to figure out what they were doing different. My recent games have both felt much better and have drastically improved, and I'm currently undefeated on Sivir after my study session. My conclusion is: there's no one-size-fits-all strategy that's going to "magically" win you games, especially not a flowchart like this one. Rather, I'd advise you to really dig into your flaws and looks for ways to improve more thoughtfully. I also want to take this chance to thank you for your in-depth videos, they've really helped me to identify improvement points.
I watched the video as well and it is kind of weird. Thank you for going through all of this with an open mind, every time I have done something like this I push the tier 2 tower down and then kind of get stuck. That one split push where you get 3-4 waves and 2 towers is really good income though. I also appreciate using multiple champs to give even more perspectives. edit: Also I do enjoy the games where you don't get a massive lead at the start, gives a nice idea how to come back.
@VaporaDark Great vid! Love the long videos. Regarding their split push in low elo strat, is to just learn to not just go ARAM in the middle every time. Learning to think at the macro level, and has really helped me see how much gold and xp you can get by splitting and grabbing waves.
I think the biggest problem is the just go mid mentality in lower elos just deprives everyone of cs by going mid. By perma split pushing you are basically just funneling resources towards a scaling champion, which most ADCs are. It would be much, MUCH better if the mentality would be go mid If you can farm the wave. If not because your team is taking some of all of it, then go side and push side wave so you’re not losing farm, then ask if grouping leads to a winning fight. Does your team have a lead, what about sum/R CDs. If grouping leads to winning a fight, group If Not split and draw resources.
the first sivir example was what happened to me in every game. it feelt like a 50/50 chance of winning and i was stupidly strong in everyone of the games. felt random
I think the idea of their video is to show how much value has split pushing even as an adc in low elo as people dont know how to play against it, even if team also does not know how to play with it. As a low elo adc myself I feel like im way superior in lane concepts and 90% of the games i end up laning phase very much ahead but then I loose that advantage in random bad fights by our team, even if me playing them correctly, or just sitting mid sharing the cs and experience with mid and support at least, feeling like i just loose time experience and money. At the end of the day team will int with or without me. ADC is no a role that can lead the team throught peeks, disengage or engaging. Its reacting about what your team does. If your team does bad then u are fucked. Not to talk about no one understanding the win condition u are and not looking at you on teamfights but just looking at enemies and not recieving any peal while everyone on the other team will try to focus you. Therefore avoiding teamfights in low elo even if it sounds weird i think its better for adc... U will eventually teamfight when u are already very far ahead.... I feel like the idea of the video is not to 100% splitpush never teamfight, when thanks to splitpushing u have a big experience and item lead then a pure 5vs5 mid is a good idea, it did not sound to me like u have to end the game by only splitpushing
Love this format. Edit: I do feel like the first sivir game seems in bad faith however. The skillcapped video is for us low-elo plebs to win off of forcing outnumbered teamfights and delay tactics, not our mechanics. By getting ahead in items, we stand a better chance at winning fights in long games (which skillcapped does recommend at 3-4 items/~30mins). For instance, you had your 4th item at 28 mins with sivir and could have fought for that drake (per the strat).
Got back into many games ive been behind in by just afk split pushing until back into the game. I mean you are gambling your team doesnt just play aram with the enemy team, and then flame you as if its your fault they cant tell they are fighting a 4v5 for nothing in return. But when you are so far behind sometimes thats what you have to do. And obviously if you just dont get yourself behind then this never happens, but some times it just be that way.
Just a question, but isn't it possible to cleanse the Morde's ult? Twice that you had cleanse when he ulted you and died, just wondering if you might've lived tho?
If there's an ADC that can work well with this Is surely zeri , High mobility , can escape if ganked , fast clear , can rotate to near fights , splitpudhing with jinx sound int af
Jinx at a tier 2 tower is a dead jinx for free then they gonna steam roll your team or just take all the objectives on the map for free and low elo players always force objectives which is a good thing now that jinx is dead...I don't ever past t1 as jinx..😂😂 and jinx is so good at teamfights in low elo it ain't worth split pushing...
Not quite related with the vidéo but what the ideal lifesteal from an adc build. I play kai'sa and Vayne adc. I recently came from jungle. And i sad that most of the time if i pick more lifesteal i sacrifice some great items and vice versa. So what's the ideal amount of lifesteal i should get as an adc every game
I would say you basically have these options: 1. Fleet + Absorb Life 2. Bloodline, optionally supplemented with Fleet 3. Lifesteal from Blade of the Ruined King rush, if playing an on-hit ADC 4. Bloodthirster once you have 100% or at least 75% crit. Any options from 1-3 will be enough lifesteal for the early-mid game, and option 4 will greatly boost your lifesteal lategame. BT can also function as your sole form of lifesteal if you just want to run Alacrity, but your early-mid sustain will be rough until you build it, at least Absorb Life preferably combined with Fleet Footwork is recommended.
@@VaporaDarkThanks i think with kaisa depending on the build i'll go bork wits end or bloodline. And vayne bork and wit's end would be enough. I'm still rough with my position but your vids help so much
I'm kinda sad there is no crit lifestyle item. I'm sure there's a reason but now you have to get lifestyle either first for on hit or pretty much last it feels like
Man You took the advise too literal, ofcourse You can go and fight for a dragón or baron. Perdonsally this was My strategy to climb from silver to platinum, But doesn't alwayse have to doit and also requires communication with your team, so they lnow what You are doing
yeah skillcapped is garbage and they give the worst advice. At this point, in all the games they make videos onm, they're doing more damage to new players than actually helping them out
As a top lane main and split push extraordinaire, I feel like actually you're not split pushing correctly. You're just running it down a side lane. Specifically writing this during the jinx game. You need to wait until your team pressures something on the otherside of the map before you push to 3rd tier tower. If you dont you just get 3+ people coming for you and you have to outplay. You can just avoid that fighting entirely and just wait before you push.
This leaves you with a decision. Do you have enough farm to teamfight or split push? The decision will be based on the situation you’re in. Denying enemy pushes is a major factor and winning important teamfights decides between victory and defeat. If you have enough damage and your tank or bruiser has caught a few enemies, go into teamfights. If you don’t have sufficient farm early on, you need to improve your CS to make up. Make sure to split-push when the enemies are distracted.
Your handicap strat is sound, but I feel like your skills are still above that of a low elo player. Like you still reasonably know where everyone is, and unless rooted or faced an auto attack, you skill kited better than the average silver. You don't deal as much damage as you would have if you have your items, but by the time you got beserkers, not a lot of people are touching you in the first place That's just my 2cent
Obviously there is no perfect way to actually handicap myself to the skill of a silver player, but at the very least it'd be great if I can at least mitigate the 'snowball' detriment of being a higher level player in a lower level game, where the further we get into the game the less and less relevant it becomes to the average player because at that point even just my champion is capable of more things than their champion would be at that stage of the game. If I can handicap my gold to just the average for that game, then at least everything stays equally relevant from minute 1 to minute 40. Additionally, it's not always bad that I have better mechanics than my viewers. I think it is a good thing to have an example of what you should be aiming for. A lot of mechanics isn't solely about mechanical 'capabilities' but about mechanical 'habits', and they both go hand in hand. A silver player may suck at kiting compared to me, but they suck way less compared to if they didn't know what kiting is at all. When you see a high Elo player kite, if you've never seen the concept of kiting before your mind would be blown, and now you have something you can practice that you didn't before. Likewise, seeing how high Elo players dodge skillshots that they're not even reacting to, just using their own ingrained habits to keep their movement erratic, can show viewers how they should aim to move themselves.
@@VaporaDark Oh yeah, ofc, I was just watching the last game (learning Ashe btw) and thought that it's great that you limit your damage output, but I'm not doing the things that you did as well as you did, which I think you also mentioned at the end. Love your vids, btw, not just Ashe
I had that same video in my recommended feed and didn’t click on it because I just had a feeling it would be questionable at best. Also I know why I suck at adc lmao. Thanks for the content mate and I appreciate your respectful tone and open mindedness approaching different points of view. Other people would have dismissed the skill capped video entirely or attacked them directly. Keep up the good work
The reason the clips dont match up is because their editor doesnt really understand/play league. Just go off what they are actually saying.
I only know because in one of their challenge videos or something they used their editor as a ‘noob’ and he didnt really know what any of the champs did/ who they were.
E
Loved that you really tried to experimient it, even when you were super skeptical at the beginning.
Talking about my experience, because before seeing your videos I used to see Skillcapped videos before, I can say that my macro got better when I tried to apply skillcap's strat.
Here's my attempt to explain: as a low elo player, your first (and may I say ONLY) thought is once lane phase is over go to the ARAM, have random fights until one team snowballs out of control and ends game.
With this strat, I feel like you completely remove that thought at the beginning and start focusing on farming and gathering resources and it makes you realize the importance of gathering those resources because it makes you be ahead more often than not (levels/ items). But as you mentioned, there are times where you feel like you're just trolling split pushing, so you start trying to get a good blend between gathering resources and joining your team to fight... therefore developing better macro.
I fully agree! Even as a Master player I want to say it helped open my eyes to some good macro plays I wasn't going for beforehand. Even if one of the two strats is better between full ARAM and full split, I think it could be beneficial to practice both for a time and try to learn to merge them into the best of both worlds.
@@VaporaDarkthanks for the video! What is the replay thing that you use?
Before watching Ill just say that "splitpushing" is a relative term to me, and if the enemy team can't stop me from pushing in 2 waves and maybe getting tier 2 tower, there's no reason not to exploit that. And if I'm super behind, it's so worth to get 300g in minions and possibly 600 million gold from tier 2 turret and give the enemy less than 300g for me.
600 million gold you ok ?
I think this is right and Im going to do it, as a low elo adc main I watch all these challenger players telling me what is the right play and doing my very best to copy them when in reality I should soak that info up for if I ever climb higher and for now just do something like this which is technically the wrong way to play it but no one gives af about macro in my elo.
So my pre watch thought about this strategy is that if your team is ahead it does not really matter whether you participate in teamfights or not but when the enemy team is strong, wins a teamfight and you are the only one alive as ADC there is just not much you can do in regards of defending or contesting objectives and add the frustration of your teammates because you didnt group and you are probably looking at a lost game.
Hey, Thanks for the video ! They also did another video on the same topic one year ago where they actually explain the concept better on some questions you bring up in your video. "When do I use this strategy?" "when do I roam?" "When do I teamfight?" "Which champions are better at split pushing?" I find that video way better explained. I don't know why they did the video again but less good.
I saw the video, but I don't recall if they said whether it's an absolute rule to follow or just something to start doing more of. Like in the Sivir games at the beginning of the video. There were definitely some significant benefits to splitpushing, but overcommitting to it was problematic. It just seems like it should be used as a legitimate adaptation to low elo chaos, while still doing regular ADC things when your teammates are doing proper macro. Although, I absolutely love being able to play both games on an ADC, and realizing an option to my teammates constantly cucking me over.
You really did make a video, i didn't expect it to be that soon😅. IMO, I think your mid to bot (or top) to mid is actually the better way to carry if u have a lead in lane (ainly staying mid but rotating for waves). However, split pushing proves really handy if you want to close a 2K gold gap, but in my own experience, it doesnt help you push your lead as much as staying mid.
It's a damn shame you dont get more views on these videos. Your are by far the best educational ADC content creator. You have definetly made me a better player. Appreciate you vapora.
Thanks for the video, Vapora. You really are the top ADC scientist.
Story time, now: this is the first season I'm really putting in the effort of playing solo queue in order to rank up, mainly by one-tricking Sivir. The Skillcapped video came out at a specific time when I was in a rut, so I decided they *must* be right. I tried it out and found that it helped a lot in getting back to games, but I still didn't win that many and, to be honest, didn't *feel* like I was playing better. After hearing a lot of people knocking down this strategy, I decided it'd be better to sit down and analyze my games, look at my builds vs Lolalytics and even look at videos of other players to figure out what they were doing different. My recent games have both felt much better and have drastically improved, and I'm currently undefeated on Sivir after my study session.
My conclusion is: there's no one-size-fits-all strategy that's going to "magically" win you games, especially not a flowchart like this one. Rather, I'd advise you to really dig into your flaws and looks for ways to improve more thoughtfully. I also want to take this chance to thank you for your in-depth videos, they've really helped me to identify improvement points.
I watched the video as well and it is kind of weird. Thank you for going through all of this with an open mind, every time I have done something like this I push the tier 2 tower down and then kind of get stuck. That one split push where you get 3-4 waves and 2 towers is really good income though. I also appreciate using multiple champs to give even more perspectives. edit: Also I do enjoy the games where you don't get a massive lead at the start, gives a nice idea how to come back.
@VaporaDark Great vid! Love the long videos. Regarding their split push in low elo strat, is to just learn to not just go ARAM in the middle every time. Learning to think at the macro level, and has really helped me see how much gold and xp you can get by splitting and grabbing waves.
I think the biggest problem is the just go mid mentality in lower elos just deprives everyone of cs by going mid. By perma split pushing you are basically just funneling resources towards a scaling champion, which most ADCs are.
It would be much, MUCH better if the mentality would be go mid If you can farm the wave. If not because your team is taking some of all of it, then go side and push side wave so you’re not losing farm, then ask if grouping leads to a winning fight. Does your team have a lead, what about sum/R CDs. If grouping leads to winning a fight, group If Not split and draw resources.
the first sivir example was what happened to me in every game.
it feelt like a 50/50 chance of winning and i was stupidly strong in everyone of the games. felt random
realy like the strategy focused content btw. if there are other interesting strats you want to try it might be a nice video series
I think the idea of their video is to show how much value has split pushing even as an adc in low elo as people dont know how to play against it, even if team also does not know how to play with it. As a low elo adc myself I feel like im way superior in lane concepts and 90% of the games i end up laning phase very much ahead but then I loose that advantage in random bad fights by our team, even if me playing them correctly, or just sitting mid sharing the cs and experience with mid and support at least, feeling like i just loose time experience and money. At the end of the day team will int with or without me.
ADC is no a role that can lead the team throught peeks, disengage or engaging. Its reacting about what your team does. If your team does bad then u are fucked. Not to talk about no one understanding the win condition u are and not looking at you on teamfights but just looking at enemies and not recieving any peal while everyone on the other team will try to focus you.
Therefore avoiding teamfights in low elo even if it sounds weird i think its better for adc... U will eventually teamfight when u are already very far ahead.... I feel like the idea of the video is not to 100% splitpush never teamfight, when thanks to splitpushing u have a big experience and item lead then a pure 5vs5 mid is a good idea, it did not sound to me like u have to end the game by only splitpushing
Love this format.
Edit: I do feel like the first sivir game seems in bad faith however. The skillcapped video is for us low-elo plebs to win off of forcing outnumbered teamfights and delay tactics, not our mechanics. By getting ahead in items, we stand a better chance at winning fights in long games (which skillcapped does recommend at 3-4 items/~30mins). For instance, you had your 4th item at 28 mins with sivir and could have fought for that drake (per the strat).
Split is nice to me, especially if the team is shadowing to me, even better if im fed holding a bounty
Master losing in silver, what am I supposed to do if I'm just a silver trying to win and in some games the team doesn't seems to know what to do ...
Good video. I like how you committed to the strat haha.
Got back into many games ive been behind in by just afk split pushing until back into the game. I mean you are gambling your team doesnt just play aram with the enemy team, and then flame you as if its your fault they cant tell they are fighting a 4v5 for nothing in return. But when you are so far behind sometimes thats what you have to do. And obviously if you just dont get yourself behind then this never happens, but some times it just be that way.
You should have went mortal reminder on 1st game.
Also didnt know full attack speed sivir was that strong
Is that an application you are using to see those replays? Or just editing
Replay HUD is the name of the app
Just a question, but isn't it possible to cleanse the Morde's ult? Twice that you had cleanse when he ulted you and died, just wondering if you might've lived tho?
1. It was never possible to Cleanse Mordekaiser ult, only QSS it
2. As of a few patches ago, you can no longer QSS it
@@VaporaDark ok, thanks for explaining it, good to know, and great vids as always.
If there's an ADC that can work well with this Is surely zeri , High mobility , can escape if ganked , fast clear , can rotate to near fights , splitpudhing with jinx sound int af
Jinx at a tier 2 tower is a dead jinx for free then they gonna steam roll your team or just take all the objectives on the map for free and low elo players always force objectives which is a good thing now that jinx is dead...I don't ever past t1 as jinx..😂😂 and jinx is so good at teamfights in low elo it ain't worth split pushing...
how is vayne right now?(adc)
Not that good I think.
I feel tristana is built for that style of game play.
Really interesting video bro
Not quite related with the vidéo but what the ideal lifesteal from an adc build. I play kai'sa and Vayne adc. I recently came from jungle. And i sad that most of the time if i pick more lifesteal i sacrifice some great items and vice versa. So what's the ideal amount of lifesteal i should get as an adc every game
I would say you basically have these options:
1. Fleet + Absorb Life
2. Bloodline, optionally supplemented with Fleet
3. Lifesteal from Blade of the Ruined King rush, if playing an on-hit ADC
4. Bloodthirster once you have 100% or at least 75% crit.
Any options from 1-3 will be enough lifesteal for the early-mid game, and option 4 will greatly boost your lifesteal lategame. BT can also function as your sole form of lifesteal if you just want to run Alacrity, but your early-mid sustain will be rough until you build it, at least Absorb Life preferably combined with Fleet Footwork is recommended.
@@VaporaDarkThanks i think with kaisa depending on the build i'll go bork wits end or bloodline. And vayne bork and wit's end would be enough. I'm still rough with my position but your vids help so much
I'm kinda sad there is no crit lifestyle item. I'm sure there's a reason but now you have to get lifestyle either first for on hit or pretty much last it feels like
@@ryanpower1291there was bloodthirster and it got its crit removed
I also use skill capped
They told me I suck at adc, I tried their idea, I am a lower rank lol
21:08
Man You took the advise too literal, ofcourse You can go and fight for a dragón or baron. Perdonsally this was My strategy to climb from silver to platinum, But doesn't alwayse have to doit and also requires communication with your team, so they lnow what You are doing
yeah skillcapped is garbage and they give the worst advice. At this point, in all the games they make videos onm, they're doing more damage to new players than actually helping them out
As a top lane main and split push extraordinaire, I feel like actually you're not split pushing correctly. You're just running it down a side lane. Specifically writing this during the jinx game. You need to wait until your team pressures something on the otherside of the map before you push to 3rd tier tower. If you dont you just get 3+ people coming for you and you have to outplay. You can just avoid that fighting entirely and just wait before you push.
Always love watching your videos, the commentary is everything!
This leaves you with a decision. Do you have enough farm to teamfight or split push? The decision will be based on the situation you’re in. Denying enemy pushes is a major factor and winning important teamfights decides between victory and defeat.
If you have enough damage and your tank or bruiser has caught a few enemies, go into teamfights. If you don’t have sufficient farm early on, you need to improve your CS to make up. Make sure to split-push when the enemies are distracted.
Seems like good guidelines to me. I am on a massive win streak using this method this weekend
why do adcs pick barrier now?
It got buffed at the same time as other summoners got nerfed.
@@VaporaDark thank you!
Love your videos, very chill and educational
hey there Vapora! what is the name of the program you use to review your own deaths? and do you ever do private coaching too?
Replay HUD. No private coaching sorry.
Your handicap strat is sound, but I feel like your skills are still above that of a low elo player. Like you still reasonably know where everyone is, and unless rooted or faced an auto attack, you skill kited better than the average silver. You don't deal as much damage as you would have if you have your items, but by the time you got beserkers, not a lot of people are touching you in the first place
That's just my 2cent
Obviously there is no perfect way to actually handicap myself to the skill of a silver player, but at the very least it'd be great if I can at least mitigate the 'snowball' detriment of being a higher level player in a lower level game, where the further we get into the game the less and less relevant it becomes to the average player because at that point even just my champion is capable of more things than their champion would be at that stage of the game. If I can handicap my gold to just the average for that game, then at least everything stays equally relevant from minute 1 to minute 40.
Additionally, it's not always bad that I have better mechanics than my viewers. I think it is a good thing to have an example of what you should be aiming for. A lot of mechanics isn't solely about mechanical 'capabilities' but about mechanical 'habits', and they both go hand in hand. A silver player may suck at kiting compared to me, but they suck way less compared to if they didn't know what kiting is at all. When you see a high Elo player kite, if you've never seen the concept of kiting before your mind would be blown, and now you have something you can practice that you didn't before. Likewise, seeing how high Elo players dodge skillshots that they're not even reacting to, just using their own ingrained habits to keep their movement erratic, can show viewers how they should aim to move themselves.
@@VaporaDark Oh yeah, ofc, I was just watching the last game (learning Ashe btw) and thought that it's great that you limit your damage output, but I'm not doing the things that you did as well as you did, which I think you also mentioned at the end.
Love your vids, btw, not just Ashe
The video I didnt know I was looking for. Thank you Vapora!