No Sparge Vs Sparged Brewing The How, Why And Why Not
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- Опубліковано 2 лип 2024
- No Sparge Vs Sparged Brewing The How, Why And Why Not
Within this video we will be looking at the pros and cons of sparging or not sparging your homebrewed beer.
This guide is made without prejudice and its objective is to assist and inform on both ways so that the individual can ultimately find what is right for them.
Also Included is some key advice on how to test and compare these methods yourself too so that you can move forward. So as such this video should be of use to those that already have some "No space" experience too.
Channel links:-
groups/Brewbeer
www.teespring.com/stores/davi...
Introduction music:- Drink Beer (Till The Day That I Die) by Dazie Mae
Channel links:-
groups/Brewbeer
www.teespring.com/stores/davi...
Introduction music:- Drink Beer (Till The Day That I Die) by Dazie Mae
Channel links:-
groups/Brewbeer
www.teespring.com/stores/davi...
Introduction music:- Drink Beer (Till The Day That I Die) by Dazie Mae - Навчання та стиль
I am using the no sparge method but I still mash out. The Apartment Brewer does it and explained why in one of his videos. It was something along the lines of, more sugars will drain free from the grain with a mash out.
A fair point for sure, though the real message of this video was “test for your own taste”
I know people lump BIAB with no sparge but I think no Sparge and BIAB should be classified as 2 different things, especially if you are squeezing the bag real good. I BIAB with a fine crush and I hit my efficiency numbers pretty much spot on every batch. If no sparge or biab without squeezing I could see unpredictability because wort could drain at different rates batch to batch and might not grab as many sugars.
My method and thoughts as well.
Thanks for sharing.
I used to have a BIAB system once, no sparge, had some good results. Now I have an all in one system and my beers have gone up. So yes I do sparge now. Thanks David for the very informative video
Great to hear and cheers 🍻🍻🍻
thanks for the informative video as always, since I always sparge I never really thought about it 🙃
Great to hear, thanks 🍻🍻🍻
I always like your videos. For me getting the most out of my input costs is paramount. I'm a sparger. I'm fooling around lately with the volume of sparge water
Great to hear Mark. Experimentation is fun too 🍻🍻🍻
That was a good topic to tackle. I hope to do some side by side comparisons on my next brew day. I have done both separately and have found a higher gravity with sparge method and have added extract to make up the difference. Thanks for your research. Cheers!!
Great to hear David 🍻🍻🍻
Thank you for your thoughts. One comparison to consider would be a regular sparged beer with a no-sparge with added grain to make up the efficiency loss. My guess is that they would be close. Then the choice is whether the extra grain was worth the extra time. I personally do not mash out and move the grain bag to mash water that has been sitting around. Then I squeeze the living daylights out of the grain to make disposal in an urban environment easier -- lighter and less sticky. This happens while the wort is coming to a boil.
Hi Janet. All good ideas for sure, though the real message of this video was “test for your own taste”. Worth testing yourself 🍻😎🍻
I switched to no sparge for small batches ages ago and have never regretted it! A few comments :- the efficiency hit is pretty minor on small batches it there is one! I have on some occasions not had a loss at all. The taste tends to be the same, maybe even a little more malty. I didn’t get the hop’s reference at all, since they are added after mash? When companies that sell equipment make certain recommendations I tend to take them with a grain of salt for obvious reasons. I now use a rather fine BIAB crush, because my equipment allows for it, unlike the typical all in one systems.
Finally when people like John Palmer think it’s a good idea, I tend to listen.
Cheers David
Thanks for your thoughts Ken. Interesting that you prefer it for small batches.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew thx David, for me it makes sense. My system that I have developed can’t handle less than 12 litres as a mash. However most of my batches are now 11 litres (lots of reasons why for another time ;) ) so rather than getting a smaller system this is what I have decided to do.
Sorry hit the button at the wrong time! I have also reduced total loss to less than 2 litres ( split between kettle and fermenter) & I don’t chill. So for me it works. People need to be careful however - the pre boil gravity maybe lower but it seems to hit the post boil target. And with small batches of course the extra grain is measured in grams rather than kilograms, so for me it’s worth it. I can’t really handle large kettles, fermenters & kegs anymore and I can do up to 3 little batches a day. So I’m fine with that. In closing you may have missed my recent FB post about my final system, let’s just say I have realised I have wasted a lot of money on equipment & have now settled on simplicity!
Cheers
My thoughts after years of brewing on both 3 v and a SV German Brewery is that the 3 v will definately be more efficient with a mash out and sparge.
My results over many brews on the German SV is that the no sparge method is a very similar if not the same result to the sparge method, however, if the mash out is not carried out then their is a marked difference in efficiency.
The method where the mash out step is not performed leaves a considerable amount of sugars within the mashed grain as shown in those percentages in your video.
With my German Brewery the total volume of mash and grains need to be monitored so as not to overflow the kettle and this would apply to many SV brew kits with a 40 litre overall or kettle capacity.
By doing smaller volume brews on a larger system this would negate this problem.
I enjoyed the video and the subsequent discussions…..Cheers 👍🍺
Thanks for sharing your findings. I agree totally 🍻🍻🍻
Thank you for this video! As a complete beginner i hadn't even considered skipping sparging. But I do find the idea intriguing since too often I find that the "simpler", ie less complex, the recipe, the better the results usually. Ie. fewer things to potentially eff up.
Try both ways and see what you think. The sparge is an easy process though, so no worries there 🍻🍻🍻
Love the meat/fish analogy. Each to their own!
Thank you, much appreciated 🍻🍻🍻
I do BIAB, and I don't have recirculation equipment, so proper sparging is out of question for me. However, whenever I let the bag drain, I do still try and rinse with a liter or two of hot water, just because I think it makes sense. I don't know if I'm missing out on something, because this is all I've ever tasted, but I still get great results in my opinion. My brewing equipment is very DIY and I don't have a budget (or even access to, in my country) for any real pro brewing kettle, so I don't think I'll find out any time soon.
Great brewing can be done with a very basic and cheap set up with the right techniques. Often you are paying for labour saving and conveniences, which are nice but not essential.
Thanks for the video David. I personally do no sparge, as I found it difficult to heat the extra water without having lots of extra equipment.
Adding extra water for mash, regular stirring, and letting the brew bag drip for a bit, gives me a reliable 65-70% efficiency.
I would say no sparge is simpler for those just starting their journey into All Grain brewing.
Totally agree. As long as you are happy with the results then all is good 🍻🍻🍻
I find slightly higher O.G. readings on my Anvil 240v system if I sparge. I seem to run about 68% efficiency , maybe slightly higher with a longer sparging step.Easy enough to do on an electric system. And if I over sparge I just continue the boil to get back to the proper volume. The sugars are the key to the ABV so lets get the most we can.
Great, sounds like expected.
I use a china bucket with a grandfather controller and a grain basket like clawhammer (BIAB) sys. I tried both methods and found now big difference in taste and OG
I believe I can improve elsewhere, with higer outcomes, but as you said, it is up to one's own taste preferences.
But thanks for your time and effort, loved it 😊👍
Great to hear. I enjoyed covering this topic as it gave me the opportunity to stress how important it is to gear towards your own taste rather than anything else. 🍻🍻🍻
I have been looking for a grain basket that can hand,e 30 lb grain bill. What is your max grain bill ???
The problem is the qouted max grain bill is never going to be very effecient, simply the most it can hold.
Since I have time and love the whole brewing process (from milling, water treatment etc) I do sparge, have the G40 which has a great heath element there is no problem even sparging with tap water(but due to water treatment I do have it in the heather). Anyway thx for the video which explain the difference, not sure I will try it my self though :D
I am with you there Roy 🍻😎 No rush here 🍻🍻 Cheers 🍻🍻🍻
Brewfather test should be taken with a rather large pinch of salt - they used the exact same recipe for the two batches, which of course would lead to different OGs since it is known that sparging does extract more sugars out of the grain; the identified taste differences and preferences could just easily be explained by the overall different alcohol strength between the two beers.
If they were trying to replicate the same beer, then they should have raised the malt bill in the no sparge version (or even lower it on the sparged one, since oddly enough, the no-sparged was way closer to recipe’s expected OG than the sparged one!).
I also find our comment on higher difficulty in predicting end results in no-sparged beers a bit unfair, as it does come out to dialing in each specific system and process. Efficiency in a homebrew scale isn’t as big of a concern as in a big commercial brewery where margins are tight, and the increase of grain bill weight of the no-sparge will most often amount to few $ which of course can counteract the cost of extra water and electricity needed for the sparge method.
But regardless the controversial topic, nice video as always, David!
Thanks for your thoughts. I have to stand by my thoughts of unpredictability though as this was my experience when I trialed no sparge over a period of time.
However , As long as you are enjoying the results then that is all that matters as I see it 🍻🍻🍻
Fantastic thank you :)
Cheers Paul 🍻🍻🍻
Thanks again for the video. Really appreciate the non judgemental tone of them and how it all comes down to subjective preferences.
I do prefer sparging though 😂
I have few friends who are strong advocates of recirculating as one is sparging. I was under the impression that this makes more sens for brewing system without pump and some already included recirculation but I wonder how you usually brew.
Side thing. I would find it super interesting if you'd share your process of testing recipes and how you are brewing test batch, if any different than full batch. I always feel like brewing small or big batches takes approximately the same time so... Full brew it is but... It's a loss opportunity to learn faster. I also feel that not all brewing system allow very small batches. Surprised about your mention of 5L brewing.
We are lucky these days that there are so many options, I just feel that people need to make their own choices rather than blindly follow. In terms of test batches I shared this video some time back:- ua-cam.com/video/4HufFBFhMDU/v-deo.htmlsi=hULWvNqSmIMuqM5a
But now I use the Brewzilla Gen 4 instead
Cheers! Interesting video. I was just looking at the Grainfather article I think that it was a flawed test... I think rather than trying to compare identical malt bills, the recipes should target the same starting gravity... it was obviously 2 very different beers. If the GF test was trying to show a difference in efficiencies on the G30, it's done that... but then it went on to show that testers preferred a different and stronger beer. However, in my opinion, the primary point of no sparge is to trade some additional grain and lower efficiencies for a quicker brew day.
A fair point for sure, though the real message of this video was “test for your own taste”
Really interesting video. I wonder what the comparison would be to look at replace sparging with a vourlaf..?!
Thank you. There are other angles here for sure 🍻🍻🍻
Sparge all the way! There must be sugars still in those grains that need rinsing out. Just makes sense to sparge.
Well, its no secret that I believe in the sparge but its good to present things equally like this I feel :)
I actually do both on my G40. No sparge for 5 gallon versions and sparge if I'm doing a double batch. The numbers are slightly better on the sparge version but I have always used a drill and mash paddle to stir the no sparge and I always re-stir halfway through. Taste wise can't say I noticed a difference.
Great, many thanks for sharing your experiences
I’ve done lots of both ways. I mostly agree with your video except I don’t agree that using a sparge (edited) is nescesarrily more predictable. In fact the extra variable of how much and how fast you sparge makes that the less predictable method for me. Of course no sparge takes a hit on efficiency and that is amplified by bigger beers - so the eff can have a wider range yes, but I don’t think that makes the method less predictable.
Hi Mark, I said no sparge is less predictable usually., not more. Keeping you methods static is also important for predictable results.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew sorry I misspoke and corrected my comment above. I meant I dont agree that sparging makes a more predictable mash efficiency. It improves efficiency, yes, especially on bigger beers. But I find doing no sparge to actually be more predictable for a given OG goal.
@marklpaulick ok, hmm. That is the opposite to how the majority find it but if thats your experience then so be it 🍻🍻🍻
I BIAB no sparge. I get great results, but plan to experiment with dunk sparging and pour-over sparges
As long as you are enjoying the results then that is all that matters as I see it 🍻🍻🍻
If you can improve it though that should something to consider trying.
Depends on the brew for me.
Sometimes to like to partigyle, especially if it’s a big brew (imperial stout, wee heavy, etc…) and if I do, I won’t sparge because I’ll be performing a second mash for the partigyle.
In any case, I suspect it’ll always be up to the individual brewer.
Great to hear. Dialling in for your own taste was my theme here 🍻🍻
I'v been brewing exclusively no-sparge for years. In my opinion, if you know how to compensate for the efficiency loss, the end result is indistinguishable from a sparged beer. I like to say that sparging never adds to a beer, it can only deduct. Brewing no sparge is brewing with just first runnings. Also imo no sparge really shines when you brew strong malty forward beers.
It is as easy to ruin a beer by under or over sparging a beer that it is to not calculate the correct grain compensation for your efficiency loss doing no sparge. The argument that is easier to hit your numbers when doing sparging is just subjectivity and not based on facts. If the recipe is design for no sparge I wager that it's not more difficult to hit your numbers than brewing any other recipe with traditional spargeing
Yes, though much of this is around our own taste buds, rather than the same for all. As for the brewing numbers it is true that with a sparge you can be more accurate, though naturally that does not suggest that you cannot dial in a no sparge beer because you can.
Not long ago I brewed an Imperial stout. For efficiency, I mashed twice. I sparged the first mash and the second not. The difference in efficiency was 7%. 1.mash 74% and 2. 67%.
Great, thanks for sharing 🍻🍻🍻
I did a no sparge recently. OG was much less than expected ~1.037 with 9lb 2 row and 8 oz carapils for a 5 gal batch. Its one of my best tasting beers to date but abv just shy of 4%. I'll probably stick to sparging.
Compensating for the loss would be worth looking at dialing in. Its how most no sparge brewing is done.
I predominantly do the no sparge method in the BrewZilla 65L and the last two German Pilsners mash efficiency has been 104% and 102%
I can't say there's a huge taste difference at all, but it's got me interested in doing the experiment between the two methods now.
I would suggest some further testing for flavour 🍻🍻🍻
@@DavidHeathHomebrew I'm definitely going to have a chop at a experiment between the two methods.
@user-nz2qb3fj5y Great, such experiments are the way forward and can be much fun too 🍻🍻🍻
I've used both methods and can't taste a difference between the sparged and no sparge beers. I skip the sparge because it saves a lot of time without compromising taste in my experience
Great to hear, naturally the real message of this video was “test for your own taste”
Hi David, thanks for another great video! I'm using a 35L Brewzilla Gen 3 and always sparge. Sometimes I have trouble lautering and have to spend a lot of time trying to squeeze the wort out of the grain by pushing down on the top screen with my mash paddle. Hopefully milling my grain coarser in the future will help. I was wondering if you find mashing out at a higher temperature makes lautering faster? Also, do you use the fine mesh screen and/or coarse mesh screen in your Brewzilla?
Cheers Neil 🍻🍻🍻
Rice hulls are a quick fix but getting the crush right is best. Mash out can only do so much. I dont use that fine screen ever 🍻🍻
With the Grainfather sparging how do you keep the grainbed so you can sparge slowly and extract all the sugars? Usually, the liquid drains so fast leaving a lot of the sugars behind.
This is much to do with grain crush. Ideally you want your crush to be less coarse to maximise efficiency. A finer crush will also slow the sparge down too.
I do the sparge method and have done the BIAB and it is nowhere near the difference that Grainfather show.
Brulosophy are nearer the mark which is more independant and does not have a hidden agenda to sell brewing equipment
I feel that this will vary on methods used as well as other variables, which make no sparge harder to predict.
Do brewing calculators compensate numbers differently on sparse vs no sparse? I have only made a few all grain batches, and so far usually get 8-10 points below my target pre boil gravity with a no sparse method. I don’t calculate sparging in brew father, so I go based on the targets it calculates. Wondering if the numbers change in software if you specify sparging.
I am not convinced that they could accurately do that if they tried.
Thanks for this. What about cold sparging? I found it had no difference on my efficiency (no comparison tests but I've always hit target FG in my first 3 brews)
Cold sparging is perfectly fine. It simply slows the heating, thats all. 🍻🍻
I use BIAB with an urn. Always sparge but have never mashed out for fear of burning the bag. Is there a need or benefit of mashing out?
Sorry this got missed. The mash out step makes sparging easier by lossening the grain bed. It also stops enzymic activity.
Hey David, quick question - do you recommend a mash out for all recipes before sparging?
Thanks.
Hi Mark, Yes. This prepares the mash for the sparge most importantly and also stops enzymic activity.
I do BIAB with a 30 lb grain bill for my 10G IPA’s - I squeeze the bag - Any benefit to sparging ???
Yes, there certainly is. Better effeciency and flavour 🍻🍻🍻
Is it possible that the differences in taste comes from mash thickness, witch has to be lower in a no sparge brew to get the same boiling volume? One can of course just add water after mashing to reach the desired volume. I enjoy my brewdays, the longer the better! ...until cleaning time...
I think its a combination of factors personally but certainly there are some who cannot taste a difference.
For me personally, it's a few main factors, time vs cost, plus enjoyment factor, I like brewing and enjoying hitting my numbers, also keeping costs down. That's why I sparge.
Much like 30-minute boil vs 60-minute boil. it's also a time vs cost factor. A 30 minute boil will cost more in grain because of the typically lower efficiency. Plus, it will cost up to twice as much in hops for some beers, namely beers with bittering addition. I.E 60-minute boil additions.
We all have to make our own choices. The 30 min boil will not see you lose efficiency in fact nor use double the hops. However you will need to add more bittering hops, not double though.
@DavidHeathHomebrew sorry you're right regarding hops. That was a bit drastic. It's roughly 25%.
But how is a shorter boil not affecting brew house efficiency, longer boil off means more boil off, more boil off means a larger sparge, typically equals more efficiency, thus cheaper cost on grain. Is that not correct?
No worries. Mostly I boil for shorter to improve flavour. I cannot say ive noticed any real efficiency lose.
I always sparge while the S40 is heating up to boil temperature, always hit my numbers, or reasonably close.
By the time sparge is finished it's time for the bittering hops!
It works for me too 🍻🍻🍻
David, I use an Anvil with a bag and no pipe. I am trying to get "the best of both worlds".......I let my bag hang for a while until it slows. Then I put the bag in a 5 gallon bucket with holes in it and that goes into another, intact, 5 gallon bucket (the collection bucket). I then sparge with a gallon of sparge water, twist the top of the bag and use a third bucket to press the bag and push out the remaining wort into the collection bucket.
I used to use the bag but didn't sparge at all.
My efficiency rose by 6% (Mash efficiency with no sparge was 70% - with sparge and press efficiency rose to 76%).
Any comments on the sparge and press method?
PS: my efficiency using the pipe and sparge was only 66%......so a full10% improvement
Hey Michael,
You should find that sparging adds effeciency but not every brew will be equal for comparison always. There are various factors here 🍻🍻🍻
@@DavidHeathHomebrew Thanks David. Ever brew has different results - that's the challenge. The results I reported are the average for a number of brews for each method. I ignored a few from my early days
@michaelchiodo7084 Yes, you want to keep your methods as close as possible so that you can dial your recipes in for efficiency prediction.
I take the time to sparge and let it drip and drip and drip. Suppose time is not an issue but always hit my OG.
Great, hitting your numbers is important ofc and part of the satisfaction.
I dont sparge. I BIAB with a super fine grain crush. Beer tastes fine to me and i like not knowing exactly how the beer comes out. A little bit of chaos is good for the blood
As long as you are enjoying the results then that is all that matters as I see it 🍻🍻🍻
Sparge for me my beer improved greatly when i swopped from BIAG
Great to hear James. 🍻🍻🍻
Of course people preferred the sparge version on the grainfather experiment, the starting gravity was 15 pts lower. Anyone who does a no sparge brew, accounts for this and adds more grain for the loss of efficiency. Utterly pointless experiment.
A fair point for sure, though the real message of this video was “test for your own taste”
Agreed. but I'd be interested to see if both beers had the same starting OG accounting for efficiency@@DavidHeathHomebrew
I am sure an email to GF would reveal this.
I agree. The Grainfather article compared 63% vs 48% efficiency. I am a fan of full volume mashing with BIAB and I target around a 80% mash efficiency and 75% overall efficiently. Most of the all-in-one systems that use a basket are not large enough for full volume mashing, so a sparge is often required (and the simple pour over sparge done, really more of a rinse, is much easier than a traditional fly sparge). Back when I did fly sparge, I found the sparge process was my biggest variable driving my efficiency. Full volume mashing is very predictable for me.
I don't understand why the same amount of grain and water would result in different OG and efficiency when done in batches (sparge) or at once. Anyway it should be about how much sugars can get in to the water from the malt.
well... I brew for myself.. AND for my buddies. It'd take me ages to go through 3 corny kegs of beer on my tap by myself so I have to brew beer that all of us like... so "brew for myself and not for others" isn't necessarily true. the AND is important here. Now 1 of the 3 is just mine. I can (tap) handle that.
Sure but this statement was simply saying that you should discover what works best for your needs rather than taking the results from limited testing from others.
100% not disagreeing :) love the content
Thank you 🍻🍻🍻
Nothing wrong with no sparge, but for some reason it just seems lazy to me. Thank you for the comparison 🍺
A fair point for sure, though the real message of this video was “test for your own taste”, if you feel inclined 🍻🍻🍻
I have a buddy who doesn't sparge, but he uses a fruit press to "wring" out the left over grains after the mash. Is this advisable? I know some breweries use mash presses and I've seen loads of different takes on this around the web ranging from fears of unconverted starch and dreaded (albeit dubious) drastic increase in tannins to neutral stances to those who are pro press.
As long as he is enjoying the results then that is all that matters as I see it 🍻🍻🍻
@@DavidHeathHomebrew That's my general opinion, too, I was just wondering about it from perhaps a more technical point of view.
His Beers are generally good. We've never done any comparisons between doing that and sparging and no sparge.
Cheers!
Technically, as long as its done properly, it should not have adverse effects with modern malt.
I am a cheap bastard, so i always sparge for efficiency... Beside that, then due to using Brewzilla 35L, mostly making 23L batch to make sure i have full corny keg, i am forced to sparge when making IPAs or other brews with a large grain build.
I mostly sparge because I prefer the end taste 🍻🍻🍻
if time saving is the most important factor, then just go to the store and buy your beer. easy-breezy!
Its all about choices 🍻🍻🍻
Cold or hot sparge an why?
Hot is most common as it does not slow down the brew. Either work though apart from this.
Cold sparge vs hot sparge everyone?
Could be a topic for the future
I wouldn't say it's meat vs fish but more like medium rare vs well done.
I guess that also depends on perspective too though 🍻😎🍻
Why wouldn't you Mash Out with No Sparge? Would you go right to a boil instead of holding around 170 for ten minutes. I guess I don't know the reason for the Mash Out.
Mash out makes the sparge easier by decompacting and at the same time stops enzyme activity.
I get that it stops the enzymatic action. I've never seen anyone "stir" the grain during the mash out. How does it decompact the grain bed? I can see why both are irrelevant if you aren't going to sparge.
it just decreases wort viscosity a little bit making lautering easier and a bit more efficient. Very useful in professional settings when you have deep mash beds. I question it's necessity in most homebrew situations but if you do get stuck sparges, sparging when the grain bed is at 75C _might_ help.
A lot of the time I think it is just one of those techniques that homebrewers do because that's what the pros do, even when there isn't a reason to do it at homebrew level.
In my experience mash out can make all the difference when sparging in any size of brew in fact.
Sparge v No Sparge its all about the efficiency
I believe it is more than just that personally. Taste too and time.
Of course the taste is different. There are a huge difference in taste between 1.060 and 1048, but same amount of grains were used. 5% and 6% are two different beers. Besides that, it could be much cheaper too, especially for a large brewery.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew
@@azerbouf Even at a similar gravity I notice a taste difference, I am not alone in this.
Yes, with the same gravity - thats a different story. I've noticed that too.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew
Yes, its important to compare like for like 🍻🍻🍻
The real issue we have to discuss is that you don’t consider fish to be meat.😂
Haha, fair enough :p