Treaty That Caused Irish Civil War - The Anglo-Irish Treaty 1921 (Documentary)
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- Опубліковано 28 вер 2024
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The Irish and British sides of the Irish War of Independence were exhausted from two years of fighting. The IRA was also about to run out of ammunition and other vital supplies to keep up the fight. And so the British government and the Irish delegation started to negotiate a treaty.
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» SOURCES
Cottrell, Peter, The Irish Civil War 1922-23, (Oxford : Osprey Publishing, 2015)
De Valera, Eamon & Moynihan, Maurice, Speeches and Statements by Eamon de Valera, 1917-73, (Dublin : Gill and Macmillan, 1980)
Gibbons, Ivan, Partition: How and Why Ireland Was Divided, (London : Haus Publishing, 2021)
Hawkings, F. M. A. “Defence and the Role of Erskine Childers in the Treaty Negotiations of 1921”, Irish Historical Studies, Vol. 22, No. 87 (Mar., 1981)
Hopkinson, Michael, Green Against Green - The Irish Civil War : a History of the Irish Civil War, 1922-1923, (Dublin : Gill & Macmillan, 2010)
Knirck, Jason K, Imagining Ireland’s Independence: The Debates over the Anglo-Irish Treaty of 1921, (Lanham, MA : Rowman & Littlefield Publishers, Inc, 2006)
Mansergh, Nicholas, The Irish Free State: Its Government and Politics, (London : George Allen & Unwin Ltd, 1934)
Mansergh, Nicholas, The Unresolved Question: The Anglo-Irish Settlement and Its Undoing 1912-72, (New Haven, CT : Yale University Press, 1991)
“Sinn Fein President Will Not Recommend Treaty Acceptance for Ireland”, Morning Press, Volume L, Number 78, (9 December 1921)
Townshend, Charles, The Republic: The Fight For Irish Independence 1918 - 1923, (London : Penguin Books, 2014)
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»CREDITS
Presented by: Jesse Alexander
Written by: Jesse Alexander
Director: Toni Steller & Florian Wittig
Director of Photography: Toni Steller
Sound: Toni Steller
Editing: Jose Gamez
Motion Design: Philipp Appelt
Mixing, Mastering & Sound Design: above-zero.com
Research by: Jesse Alexander
Fact checking: Florian Wittig
Channel Design: Yves Thimian
Contains licensed material by getty images
All rights reserved - Real Time History GmbH 2021
In my early 20s, I completely understood & empathized with the Anti-Treaty side. Now, close to 50 & with sons who would've had to fight, the Treaty compromises seem rather tiny. Time & parenthood changes us immensely.
The one thing I always liked about this channel since 2014( 1914) is that it gets facts on both sides.
However UA-cams weird policys has prevented these Awsome guys from getting full facts and stories (including old pictures and videos).
But they still try their best to give us facts at the best of their abilities without trying to provoke UA-cam.
So thanks to all the team.
-Long time subscriber.
As the first one here and from Ireland I might add I'm so happy to see more videos on the Irish history. Can't wait for more Irish videos 😁🇮🇪
Yeah. Not Irish but it's fascinating. I love the Irish videos on this channel.
I second this proposal 🇮🇪🇮🇪
I am Northern Irish and believe that you and I are in touch with our family
@@jehova5650 you may be Northern Irish but Northern Ireland dosnt exist
@@cathanmccann1769 yes it does
de Valera ducked his responsibility and hung Collins out to dry. He basically put a bullseye on Collins back rather than making the hard choices himself!
In all fairness the fact that the British essentially forced the Irish delegation to sign the treaty without time to consult the Irish parliament, or consider other compromises, raises a serious question of democratic legitimacy.
Exactly. First he avoided joining the delegacy and the sulked that he wasn't informed. Some leader he was.
@@mEmory______ Except that the Treaty was approved by the Dáil in January 1922.
@@EdMcF1 yeah my point was that it was under the duress of war and, more importantly, the unauthorised signature prevented further, and better, negotiations.
The norm is that the main man comes in after negotiations, the brits were more experienced in diplomacy and carried a big gun. It is similar now with Brexit except the EU are shredding the inept UK negotiators.
As an Irish person. Thanks so much for this. The video was fair and balanced.
I'm with Collins on this one. So I will pragmatically declare my allegiance to this channel.
Here is a side note you may find interesting. Irish actress Maureen O'Hara was born 1920 in Dublin. During her US naturalization ceremony she was required to renounce "allegiances to foreign monarchs". She refused, informing the clerk and the judge presiding over the ceremony that she is Irish and does not owe any allegiance to a monarch, i.e. the British crown.
Eventually, the issue made its way to Congress, which voted to change the wording some twenty-five years after Irish independence. O'Hara took a measure of pride in being instrumental in bringing about that change for the rest of her life.
Honestly, if they ever made a film on Grace O'Malley, Maureen O'Hara would have been PERFECT for the role (she actually played a female pirate once and took sword lessons). Who better to play the role of Ireland's Pirate Queen?
She was in the wrong though. The Irish free state retained the monarchy until 1937. So it was a legitimate requirement in 1920.
@@lmonk9517 check your dates. she was born in 1920, but the naturalization ceremony I mentioned happened in Jan 1946
Also, if she was in the wrong, one would expect the US government to push back against her position.
@@shelbynamels973 Apologies . I did misread .
@言行一致 Níl agus ní bheidh an stát 26 contae mar Phoblacht Fhlaitheasacha na hÉireann. Lig ort gurb é an neamhspleáchas a fuaireamar riamh.
My great grandfather was in the Irish civil war and the war of indipendnce.
He was fond of saying in his later years. "I shot better men than the ones who run the country today"
It was only when I grew older I realised how right he was.
Those who die young are always idolised. It's impossible to say how they would have changed with age and pragmatism.
@@foxyboiiyt3332 always? Hardly.
When oppertune? Definitely.
So glad I left Europe. Nice to be free to live as I choose now
Depends which side you refer to
@@chiefslinginbeef3641 where are you living now?
A very well researched episode by Jesse and the Great War team. No bias to either side and well respected historians used for source material e.g. Green against Green (Hopinkinson, 1988) which is considered the definitive account of the Irish Civil War.
Best summary of the Anglo irish treaty I have ever seen, and I’ve watched about everything on the troubles on UA-cam
The troubles specifically refers to the armed struggle of the Provisional IRA in the 6 counties of Northern Ireland. The Irish War of Independence and Civil War would not be referred to as the Troubles
@@peterm17 Not a few called the War of Independence the Troubles too.
@@stephenwright8824Even so, generally, when "the Troubles" are invoked, people think of the Provos and yhe UDA and all that.
Great video, fun fact: the civil war is not part of curriculum in primary/secondary schools(under 17/18) in Ireland only in 3rd level courses(history etc), I asked my history teacher when in school why it wasn't included and he said it was because it was still too fresh in people's lives, as in one pupils family(grandparents) may have been pro treaty while another's may have been anti treaty, so names/attacks etc might cause issues so it was decided to stop after the war of independence.
Note: this was the early 90s so may have changed by now
Because it ruins the Irish Nationalist delusion. If the IRA won then why did they have a civil war over the Treaty? It reveals the central lie of Irish Nationalism.
Yeah they thought it when I was there with great emphasis placed on the treaty in fairness they also did quite a bit about the troubles
You must be pretty old. I did it in secondary school in the late 90s and I didnt do honours history or anything.
@@jimmyryan5880 Yes but that's the Shamrock Awakening, the era of the Father Ted generation, it show how far the South has come in the last few decades.
It's thought in schools now
I pledge a Patreon, to The Great War, and to the edutainment, for which it provides, Real Time History, 100 years ago, with enlightening knowledge for all. And the only UA-cam History Channel that gets an oath of allegiance from its viewers
As an Irish person. I have to say that you've done a great job. Well researched and put together.
This is on You Tube: THE TREATY (a Thames TV/ RTE co production). Well worth watching..
This is an excellent video presentation that clearly and concisely explains the events surrounding the Anglo Irish Treaty.
One small nitpick. He keeps saying ulster had 6 countries. Ulster had 9 counties. NI has 6 counties.
Yes, and Ulster still has nine counties. When I drove into County Donegal from the south there was a sign saying something like "Welcome to Ulster".
What's the difference??? Just curious & seriously asking 🤔
@@raybarry4307 well the nine counties of ulster are a region of Ireland, and six of them are occupied by Britain and called "Northern Ireland"
@@deathgripskaraoke9351 Yes l get that. But a majority of the people who live there don't see it as an occupation so then is it really. I mean They voted to stay with the UK.
@@raybarry4307 correct, we are not occupied at all, the majority are happy to be within the United Kingdom
Thank you so much for this series. There is very little that is widely known about these events and this helps broaden awareness.
Thanks for this. I'm eagerly awaiting the next video on this.
Imagine being a soldier in the Free State Army, when a year or so before you were in the IRA. You were fighting against the very men who had been your comrades and whose success against the Crown had led to the Treaty in the first place. But events and history take some very strange turns. The same deValera who egged on the IRA in the civil war later turned against them as they threatened his own power. They wanted to replace the Free State with the Republic, just as he did in 1922.
Devalera comes across as very slimy. his blood and soil nationalist rhetoric has been a major factor in Irish unrest.
Robert Erskine Childer's most famous work as an author (the Riddle of the Sands) was a call to arms against the dangers of German ambitions on the world stage.
It was. In 1903 Childers was preoccupied with the military threat from the German Empire. Twenty years later he had become an Irish patriot.
Staunch English Unionist to Hardline Irish Republican in a few years.
His switch seemed to come after the Boer War. I reckon he saw the concentration camps which changed him.
@@barryb90 don't forget that many British soldiers guarding those camps died of starvation and disease along side the detainees. The causes were poor planning on the part of the British and the Boers cutting the supply lines. Either way it would be enough to change anyone's mind.
@@johnhanamy9795 He became a traitor who sold Britain out.
@@barryb90 No, he even served in the navy in WW1. During the Treaty negotiations he even tried to prove to the Admiralty that the Treaty Ports were of no value much to their hilarity. Sir Ormonde Winter recalls him breaking into a hissy fit when interviewing him by reminding him to pick up his medal for his service from Buckingham Palace.
Thanks for continuing this series and for covering the topic of Irish independence.
Oddy It isn't the first time in irish history this happened back in 1646 during the 11 years war a peace treaty between the Catholic confederacy and the royalist lead to a civil war too
I love your channel keep up the great stuff!!
Just when Ireland reached peace, it went into war again
Very well explained . The Irish were unfortunate to have had a Spaniard imposed upon them who proceeded to cast a long and ominous shadow over Ireland both culturally and economically throughout the 20th century .Indeed the unanswered question , why did he not go to London himself ?
He didn't think he had to. He thought they would come home with something and then they would all vote on it. Dev had already tried to talk to the British but they got nowhere. By the way I have no time for Dev but he was a very intelligent man.
Had it not been for him, you would still be in the Commonwealth!
Self preservation.
@@christianfreedom-seeker934 Him, who? DeValera or Collins?
@@christianfreedom-seeker934Eamonn de Valera wasn’t in power (as Taoiseach) when Ireland left the Commonwealth, John Costello was.
And de Valera personally favoured a compromise where Ireland would be a republic, but ‘externally associated’ with the Commonwealth (somewhat similar to the situation Ireland had 1936/7-1949).
So no, he was not responsible for ‘Ireland leaving the Commonwealth’.
Interesting that the division of Ireland has now lasted a full century
I think you'll find that the *nine* counties of ulster province are actually majority Catholic when put together, however the gerrymandered artificial borders of *Northern Ireland* were specifically drawn to create a majority protestant region
During the early 1910s, the province of Ulster has a slim protestant majority of around 56% so the first part of your statement is incorrect and the reason why only six counties were included was to increase the percentage if protestants to around 60% which would reduce the power of the Catholic minority. Gerrymandering would be introduced to solidify unionist power in the new state.
De Valera was a real piece of work. History, however, has judged him and not well.
In 1966, de Valera, who had long strived to minimize, even erase Michael Collins' place in Irish history, said the following:
“It is my considered opinion that in the fullness of time history will record the greatness of Michael Collins and it will be recorded at my expense.”
And that expense will never be enough to repay Ireland for the damage de Valera did. Imagine how different things might have been, had not de Valera undermined the treaty and promoted the Civil War. (Not that he did that alone.) I can only imagine how different Ireland's history would have been under Collins' leadership rather than Dev's. Or, had he succeeded in scuttling the Treaty and presided over the brutal crushing of the IRA and Ireland under the full scale war that the Crown would assuredly have executed. What would Dev's legacy be then? As it stands, I can't see Eamon de Valera as anything more than a narcissistic prig who sold out Irish lives in favor of his own jealousy, ego and mania. His actions are those of a man who would rather see his country destroyed than have a man he envied prove more popular and powerful than he, and take his place as the state's leader. Collins kept his life on the line while Dev played celebrity in the country he was born in. Collins always put the Irish people first. De Valera always put himself first.
Where it all went wrong
“Having learned from history that all bourgeois movements end in compromise, that the bourgeois revolutionists of today become the conservatives of tomorrow” - James Connolly 1897
The treaty absolutely sold out nationalists/catholics in Ulster. And DeVelera shafted Collins
And tragically forced the abandonment of Unionists/Protestants in the Free State who were treated so much worse, being ruled over by those who had murdered their families and considered anti-British racism patriotism.
@@MrLorenzovanmatterho anti-British racism wouldn't exist if there was no anti-Irish racism coming from the UK. Google the Punch magazine picture of John Redmond leading the pigs into a sty and you'll see there is loyal Protestant Ulster trying to run away. Charming how British treat a people who claim they're as British as Finchley.
@@MrLorenzovanmatterho complete utter bullshit, Protestants had it much better down south than catholics did up north.
@@MrLorenzovanmatterho complete lies.
@@shawnfinnegan64 What? Is that all you've got? Come on, what have I said that is untrue? Come on, WHAT? Come on, you know fine rightly it was all a LIE, Irish Nationalism is ALL A LIE! I known you've been raised to be a bigot and a racist hypocrite in the Catholic church's sectarian apartheid education system but you're actually talking to a Unionist now and hearing the other side of the story. Come on, give it up, give up your prejudice, it's the Shamrock Awakening, embrace the truth. Offer reconciliation to your Unionist brothers and sisters, apologise for your disgusting hatred, don't be PW Botha, be FW De Klerk.
Robert Childers surname is pronounced Chill Ders. He was executed during the Civil War. His son was elected President of Ireland in 1973 and Childers Granddaughter served as an MEP as recently as 2019
I never knew that the treaty wasn't really approved by Ireland first
Still has a big effect today, the split between fine gael and Fianna Fáil can be traced back to this
You’d think they’d have moved on a merged by now given the only major difference I can see from an outside perspective is that Fine Gael don’t despise us Brits quite as much as Fianna Fáil (politically speaking anyway).
@@cobbler9113 I expect they will in the near future, especially if Sinn Féin continues to do as well as it currently is
@@cobbler9113 probably right as Fine Gael wanted to hold a ceremony in respect to the RUC
There both pro British
@@mrgreen405 There are no pro-British parties in the ROI.
Will there be more monthly videos of this inter-war period or does that conflict w/ the other series?
Less talked about part of Irish history
Cause most people thought Irish = British maybe
Of course, it spoils the myth.
Is the original series The Great War now over?
de Valera to Michael Collins reminds me of the Arab character in "Indiana Jones." "Snakes, very dangerous, you go first."
Collins had the snake behind him.
As an English bloke, I never knew anything about this. All throughout my schooldays in the 1970s & 1980s (when the Troubles in Northern Ireland were at their worst) we were never taught anything about Ireland or the reasons as to why people were getting shot and bombed, how the Troubles began, or anything at all. I imagine it was the same in schools all over the country. It's no wonder that the Irish hate(d) us 🙄
Do you think if it was taught in schools about the history between our two countries it would of made any difference?
@@1569-f8x no
The Irish do not hate the English.
Many Irish did hate the British establishment for the first half of the 20th century.
(Also English) Ironically, the overwhelming majority of the population of the plantation in Ulster was by Lowland Scottish people, not English (hence why the Ulster Scots language spoken in NI is a thing, and why the flavour of Protestantism there is Presbyterian, like it traditionally is in Scotland, not Anglican, like in England).
So it was more ‘British’ imperialism in respect to Ireland, rather than ‘English’ (not saying the English aren’t to blame either, but the whole thing is more nuanced than that).
Jesse is the best narrator!
Thanks!
So is this the end of TGW?
Excellent video 📹
Interesting video, I never really knew about the Anglo-Irish War
'the freedom to achieve freedom' - i like that
Very well made.
You should've pinned an oath as a comment here, so people could give a thumbs up or comment under it.
This was a balanced video; not the anti-English rubbish I was expecting. Great work.
They generally do a great job focusing on the events. Seriously, one of the best history channels on UA-cam.
vile behavior the world over can't be overlooked, stu
@@jimcarlson6157 what behaviour are you referring to? Anything in particular, I believe there was terrible incidents on both sides.
Dev stitched up Collins for sure.
Looks like Irelands troubles were far from over after this treaty came about.
My grandfather fought on the Collins side.
I love ulsters
De valera is hated by my father. Michael Collins is a true Irish hero
Correction: Ulster was not "mostly protestants", this is not an accurate depiction. The Irish had no navy, very little land ownership. Also Irish Catholics has been prohibited from becoming doctors, judges and other senior positions or marry a protestant that worked for Guinness. There was a lot of separatism outside of politics.
When I visited Dublin I stayed right across the street from kilmainham gaol. The jail the English used to imprison and execute many Irish dissidents. We saw the cells of many famous rebels and the courtyard where many were executed. After the treaty operations of the prison fell to the new Irish government. They in turn used it to imprison and even execute their own Irish rebels... Brother killing brother. So sad. Fantastic tour btw. The docent we had was so enthusiastic about history and totally acted the part.
Excellent treatment of a complex and emotionally charged subject.
Only (very minor) niggle, it should be emphasised that Ireland at this time was part of the UK, just as Scotland is, and Northern Ireland remains...it colours the interpretation and understanding of the entire history.
DeValera led a "pretend" government. Sinn Féin won most of the Parliamentary seats in Ireland, but unlike the SNP in the 21st century did not assume their places in the Commons, since that meant swearing the oath of allegiance to the Monarch. That remains the case in 2022, with Sinn Féin having won several seats up to and including the 2019 elections, but never entering the Chamber.
I've read several histories of the period, including the biographies of DeValera and Collins by Tim Pat Coogan, but I've yet to see how the "Irish Government" of pre Treaty days could function with no executive power, no police force and no money
I would say that was addressed several episodes ago, where they mentioned that where the IRA drove Auxiliaries out, they set up areas of local governance: running trials, patrolling, etc. Pre-treaty, they likely relied on IRA fighters to serve as enforcers as well as soldiers, similar to how a lot of paramilitary groups tend to do when they take over a region.
The Treaty was approved by the Dail in a vote in January 1922. The losing side of that vote had no respect for their own people and principles of democratic accountability. When they got into the Civil War, the pro-Treaty side didn't mess around. Any fool could see that the Free State was a stepping stone to a republic, and a fantastic victory given the circumstances. de Valera showed his true colours here, and then signed that book of condolence 2 weeks after Belsen had been liberated. All you need to know about the man.
Three future IFS Cabinet members who voted, were British agents, and the British also bought three votes.
@@kevinluby4783 Source?
Pronunciation is spot on. But the real issue was the six counties not the oath. The problem was there were still lots of catholics in the north even though a lot were heading south or over to England. They were facing a lot of violence from the authorities and many were being killed. Neither Dev nor Collins wanted to turn their backs on them. The English leaders and the Irish leaders could have come up with some solution to the refugee crisis and the country is feeling the affects to this day.
I worship IRISH whiskeys!
de Valera tried to avoid his responsibility to make the unpopular and pragmatic decision he knew was the most likely outcome of the talks. He effectively gave Collins, Griffith et al a hospital pass. Many people when put in de Valeras shoes would do the same and avoid it.
De Valera was a coward, whose actions directly led to the Irish Civil War.
Meanwhile, Collins was right, both in the likelihood of paying for the treaty with his life, and that the treaty would set Ireland on the road to independence.
For all the wrongs committed by the British, most of the hardship inflicted on Ireland during the 20th century was a product of their own leadership, and radical splinters of it, generally centred on the IRA.
Thanks for the English perspective.
@@seankavanagh7625 I'm Canadian. Just looking at the facts. Consider how much Ireland has progressed over the past 25 years of peace.
@@JamesPhieffer Ah, one of the loyal colonies. Ireland is progressing quite nicely since we kicked your masters out and put the Church in their place. Thank you for noticing.
As for Ireland's problems being caused by ourselves, I suggest you keep your bootlicking to yourself and leave free independent nations business to them. Also make sure your clean your knees after kneeling to Charles, people might wonder what you were doing and get the wrong idea.
@@seankavanagh7625 Ireland reunited with the UK in 1973.
@@JamesPhieffer There is no "peace", and never will be.
Sometimes you've just got to take yes for an answer. The British Empire held all the cards really, being able to destroy the IRA within a couple of weeks without the ceasefire. War-weariness notwithstanding, they had the forces to move around to maintain an indefinite military occupation. The new intake of Republican volunteers were untrained, of debatable moral courage, and could not be armed, with the IRA all but out of ammunition. Collins got the best deal that could be had. De Valera and co. might have preferred to fight a civil war against the Protestants of Ulster, but by rejecting the treaty which protected them, they opted to fight a civil war against fellow Republicans instead. Such are the inflexibilities and extremism of nationalism. When you worship an idol, it cannot be surprising that human sacrifices are demanded.
Not to mention those Protestants in Ulster would have been protected by the British Military. Any attempt by the Irish to forcibly take Ulster would have been a disaster for them.
@@cobbler9113 Probably. They would have been lavishly supplied with arms and pro-Orange volunteers would have arrived from Scotland and elsewhere.
@@patrickholt2270 Not to mention the inevitable naval blockade that would have taken place. It also wouldn’t help the Irish government that all their main cities are on or very near the coast and those naval guns were quite menacing… It probably wouldn’t have come to that, but the fear would have been there.
Collins was also a Nationalist
@@cobbler9113 The Protestants in Ulster were already heavily armed and didn't need protecting. The ones who needed protecting were the Catholics in Ulster, and it's not clear how much stomach the British Army would have had for fighting Unionists to protect people perceived as disloyal. And as stated in the video the IRA was very weak in Ulster. The likely alternative to partition was a bloodbath and then getting partition anyway.
do a story on gavrilo Principe
or maybe Aaron lopez
I hereby give my un-wavering oath of allegiance to Real Time History.
You forgot to mention that Devalera was a traitor to the Irish people and two columns
0:59 Michael Palin!
This series of videos by The Great War gives an excellent overview of the Irish rebellion against British rule from Easter 1916 to 1921 and I look forward to future videos about the history of Ireland in the 1920s (and beyond?). However, I think the video on Ireland in early 1918 was substandard; perhaps the Great War Team could revise it.
Realpolitik. The war against Britain was untenable, but the possible treaty was unacceptable by many irish. It could hardly be different, it seems...
17:43
The Parliament ratifies the treaty
Collins had the weight of the world on his shoulders. When a republic was offered by an empire, owning so much of the world and its resources, Collins took it. An independent Ireland after centuries of rape and plunder. It wasn't perfect, a fractured Ireland after the Protestant "plantation" or colonisation.
The Irish Free State wasn’t a republic.
Would this treaty not broken up the „United Kingdom of Great Britan and (North) Ireland“, since Ireland was given Dominion status like Canada?
No as Northern Ireland was given an opt-out where it could remain in the UK. It exercised this right the very same day they were allowed to.
@@cobbler9113 as i understand the Treaty the whole of ireland was given dominion status and the North opted out of the common government in Dublin, so the Kingdom of Ireland had to be extracted from the the UK in order to gain Domion status, hadn’t it?
Ireland, Rejoin the United Kingdom../🏴🇮🇪🏴🏴❤️
No.
The great irish revolution. Strangled at birth .by the English ruling class........Desmond C Greaves .. ...English historian ......and a great irish historian.......
I gladly take the oath of allegiance to The Great War channel.
Great! 👌
Why does he pronounce de valeras name so weirdly
He's using the Spanish pronunciation. It's a Spanish name.
EU get out of ULSTER 🇬🇧
The Free State government honestly should have refused the treaty. Great Britian wanted to retain control of Ireland and DeValera was wise to get the Irish government to vote itself out of the Commonwealth.
De Valera didn’t do that though-Ireland remained (at least formally) a member of the Commonwealth until 1949.
And de Valera himself favoured Ireland being a republic, but in ‘external association’ with the Commonwealth (which is basically what Ireland was between 1936/7 and 1949).
It was under John A. Costello, not de Valera, that Ireland left the Commonwealth, with the passing of the Republic of Ireland Act in 1949, which was when de Valera wasn’t even in power as Taoiseach (Prime Minister), and he himself personally was against the passing of the act.
The British Empire can be proud to claim . All by its self created the current Sixth Earth extinction event .
Are Michael Collins related to the astronaut with the same name or singer Phil Collins?
Almost certainly not. Both Collins and Michael are very common names.
They are all of different genesis.
It's just one of those fun coincidences of history
how about Bootsy Collins?
wrg, no anxietyx etc nmw
Un jour ou l'autre, l'Irlande sera libre.
The way you pronounce "De Valera" bothers me.
He's using the Spanish pronunciation. It's a Spanish name. I'm not going to spilt hairs over it.
Westminster imposing its own solution by using the threat of state terrorism..
( a great British / Westminster tradition)
Yeah, the IRA were famous for not using terrorism
😂😂😂
de Valera ducked his responsibility and shot himself in the foot. Collins was able to negotiate with the British and make his name in history as the peacekeeper. Yes, Valera basically put a bullseye on Collins back rather than making the hard choices himself- but Collins is the one we remember for ending the war and not the almighty de Valera. It's crazy if you read copies of Collins's diary how it all could have fell apart and how the British were prepared for a full blown invasion of Ireland even after the horror of the Great War! I think if it wasn't for Collins's pragmatic nature and compromise- the British would have invaded, won and that would have seen a real change in Anglo-Irish relations compared to today. It is interesting Irish history especially with its struggles with the Anglo-sphere, trying to establish itself as a European nation and sustaining its Gaelic past.
Exactly. I’m fairly sure that the Irish wouldn’t have lasted very long against a full blown invasion by a British army battle hardened by 4 years of war, led by skilled commanders with the most modern technology. It would’ve been a massacre
@@jamiengo2343 tbh I doubt DeValera would keep up the war for long. Perhaps one or two desicive battles are won by the British before the Irish call it curtains
@@j.kearney484 I don’t understand why the British didn’t continue the war, considering the fact they held all the advantages to press their military advantage
@@jamiengo2343 We (the British) didn't continue the Anglo-Irish war because we were fed us and worried that the war would become an entrenched war like WW1 and it was showing signs it was in both rural and city areas. Gorilla warfare in cities would also be worse than trench warfare in Flanders as at least you know where the opposite side is meanwhile you don't in an unpredictable environment. This gorilla warfare environment would be the predicament with The Troubles of the 1960s-90s- the IRA became the unseen. That is what would have happened in early 1900s too.
@@j.kearney484 I don't think De Valera would won't the British forces fighting and it would have been probably 2/3 decisive battles probably 1) Dublin especially re-conquering the places that were symbolically associated with the 1915 Easter Rising, 2) Cork and the rural area around County Cork (which was a key area of the IRA recruitment and the Gaelic League) and 3) The Derry/Londonderry region (and maybe Galway because it was a isolated rural community that associates the British with the English colonialism of the 1500s and the aftermath of 1800s famine over the new colonial modernised empire that fitted the 20th century).
Saddest part of Irish history comes after this. When Irish turn against Irish
What exactly do you think it was before? The Irish Civil War begins at Easter 1916, not 1922.
@@MrLorenzovanmatterho was the war of independence
@@jackfahy6925 A civil war between Irish Unionists and Nationalists. The curse of Cain is upon Nationalists for they murdered their brothers.
@@MrLorenzovanmatterho so you could say the American war of independence too was a civil war
@@jackfahy6925 Yes very much so, millions of American Loyalists, nowadays we call them Canadians.
Excellent explaining of Political, Military & Irish Population Desired in one side Before & after Treaty . British Government selected Powerful, Wealthy Political experiences members for controlling this Treaty to prohibited Complete independents Dream & Reducing it to Width Internal Freedom ..thanks for sharing this Video was more than Excellence evaluation deserving
Childers is pronounced "Chill-ders" NOT Child-ders. Other than that ... not too bad a summation.
I mean
The Great War itself ended 3 years before 1921 so this channel not really about The Great War anymore
I’ll count 1919 or maybe even 1920 when the final treaties were signed but 1921 is stretching it
Will this ever end or will the channel talk about the Interwar period as well?
Why would they change the channel name if the majority if they content is about the Great War, it's a non-issue
I'll allegiate to this channel.
I never understood why the republicans would even want the northern Ireland counties to be incorporated into an Irish national state knowing how radically, even hatefully anti-IRA the vast majority of the ppl there were. That's beginning a country with millions of derisive, separatist citizens as part of the population that don't want to be belong. It's nothing less than asking for a never ending migraine.
Everything you just said is completely false. Even at the time of the sell out treaty about 40% of the population of the gerrymandered false state of “Northern Ireland” was nationalist.
Yea, I don't see the sense in dragging the entirety of Ulster into a Republic if it's going to be a net-negative for the county's stability in the future (but I assume it'smore nuanced than that). I'm perfectly content to share the island with our northern neighbors, but some people can't let go of a decades old grudge that amounts to very little nowadays
@@j.kearney484 spoken like a true west Brit. Content and happy to be living in the republic while the treat you benefited from sold out northern nationalists. Same type of person to say the “old” IRA was different than the Provos somehow
Irish Lives Matter 😤✊🏻🇮🇪🍀🥔🍻
That name does not Sound Irish
Which one
If your going to call it Ireland then it should be and should always have been 100% Irish. But no the British and their arrogance have to pretend they are still relevant in the world.
that is odd... my half - sister is married to a Mark Newton...
Irishmen were against a token conection with UK, but were OK with being serf of Vatican. American level of intelect.
Its sad but instead of home rule they got Rome Rule
Barry true but who is the lesser of two evils if you have been enslaved for 1000 years what would you do ? Israel had support we did it on our own no help
It's more nuanced than that. DeValera was pretty much the facilitator for Vatican interference during his political career, and that relationship has only started to relax over the last 15-20 years. I would argue that most people in the country would have been unhappy with the level of control the Catholic Church had over them, if the situation and facts had been layed out for them, but many just weren't aware
@@irinacrouse1017 enslaved for 1000 years? Not quite.
Pity it is not factual !
Specifics?
For a start, it was not a civil war !
This is a fact Irish republicans always ignore.
Barry B I can't fin d your post to reply to, I suspect you deleted it like a coward. Always amuses Unionists when racist Irish Nationalists refer to us as "Huns", not least because it was you who supported the German military dictatorships in both World Wars. You don't actually believe that do you? Unionists in the South suffered terribly in De Valera's sick and disgusting Catholic state for a Catholic people, ruled by those who'd murdered their families and thought anti-British hatred was patriotism. Yes and Nick Hewer's grandad was the Alderman of Belfast and a Catholic, so obviously there was no discrimination in the North?
Why are you still trying to fight this war?
@@TheDanEdwards Because Irish Nationalists celebrate the mass murder and oppression of my people and don't seem to think there's anything wrong with that! Their victims deserve better.
@@MrLorenzovanmatterho How on earth do we celebrate mass murder? I may not be a nationalist but I'll be honest, the large majority of us don't have anti-protestant or anti-English sentiments (at least the well adjusted of us don't, some will never learn). Sentiments like these only shrink as the generations go on, so I think it's time we dropped them entirely
@@j.kearney484 You eulogise fascist mass murderers, put up statues to them and extoll them as "patriots"? You spit on the graves of their victims. You see you displayed your racism with comment and you didn't even realise it. You're not "anti-English"? And what pray does any of this have to do with the English? Come on, what exactly? Yes, drop your prejudice, drop your bigotry, say it was wrong to commit genocide and ethnic cleansing against Unionists, accept our right to exist. Just say it, come on, just say it
You are bitter hun though and you're not a race. Get a life.
Incredible. I find it hard to not be impressed at how factual and not biased this was. As I understand it it is incredibly easy to fall into these pitfalls. Great job.
Thanks!
@@jessealexander2695 I agree, you are such a fantastic presenter of information. I have a various amount of interests that I inform myself on using youtube, history not even being my favorite, but The Great War is my favorite channel on the platform and I’ve recommended you to anybody I’ve ever talked about pre, during and post WW1 to. Keep it up because you and your team are beyond fantastic!
Hense, the disabling of the dislikes for this video.
@@kdrgaming3344 UA-cam across the board disabled dislikes that is out of the creators control.
I’ve rarely come across such a well presented description of this period of Irish history. The Great War team are such professionals.
"It takes more courage to examine the dark corners of your own soul than it does for a soldier to fight on a battlefield"
- William Butler Yeats
Not really though. Not in 1916. Had he ever seen a battle field?
What was he throwing?
@@kb4903 Yes he did kinda- more of a bystander than a solider though. Ireland became the battlefield during the Irish Civil War and his garden and fields would regularly a place of skirmish attacks. Both sides would regularly have cups of tea with him in Galway in his derelict tower talking about the weather and fishing.
@@reverendroar He had never fought on a battlefield. I like Yeats but this quote was just pure arrogance on his end.
One of my favorite poets but he was never a soldier.
Funnily enough we've just finished this in leaving cert history, might just show my teacher this video
And just after getting through the video, it's incredibly well done and factual, and avoids republican bias like most videos on the topic, while providing a very easy to follow narrative, all together, an amazing video on a very misconstrued and little known topic
thanks!
Literally in the same scenario
@@TheGreatWar do albania next day or week
sorry i missed what republican bias you are talking about? i would like to know your thoughts on this