You are correct in your opening statements. The main reason the bicycle world has developed and gone to very accurate low range 1-25 nm torque wrenches is due to the explosion of carbon fiber frames, fork tubes, stems, handlebars and saddle rails. These CF components are very sensitive to being over torqued, which can easily crack a CF stem, fork tube, frame at the seatpost collar, etc... In the past when the frames and components were all alloy you could tighten fasteners by feel and that would be fine. That no longer works in the world of ultra lightweight CF bike frames and CF components. I have the Effetto Mariposa 1-8 nm red colored torque wrench that you show in this vid, and for the money I'd say it is easily in the top 3 of low torque value torque wrenches you can buy. Other really good low torque value torque wrenches include: Hazet 5107-3CT 1-9 nm range, 4% accuracy Topeak Torque Stick 2-10 nm, 4% accuracy (you showed this one in your vid) Wera A2 2-12 nm, 10% accuracy
When gripping your torque wrench, you are using your thumb on the handel to stabilize the wrench as you turn it. Your thumb is effectively becoming a fulcrum and ruining accuracy. For best accuracy, stabilize the wrench by holding the head with one hand and applying torque to the handle with the other.
His thumb on the head has zero impact on the torque reading on this type of torque wrench. The torque in this wrench is measured by an internal spring and the action of that spring is not impacted whatsoever by his thumb being on the head or not!
I use the Vortex (10-50 in lbs $85) for smaller screws and a 1/4” Tekton dual direction torque wrench (10-150 in lb $50) for larger fasteners. Mechanical torque wrenches only vary 2%-3% in accuracy and are dependable for years so long as they aren’t dropped and stored properly. Remember you can always verify the calibration of a torque wrench by measuring to a set distance and measuring the pull with a scale (5lbs of force on a 6” lever = 30in lbs.) I bought a $10 gunsmithing driver set from Brownells years ago that has every bit driver I’ve ever needed and the 1/4” bits fit both the Vortex directly and the Tekton with bit adapter. Properly torqued fasteners will stretch so the elasticity will hold pressure on the threads maintaining tension, slight variations in torque will have minimal effect on fastener performance.
That Topeak torque wrench has two little finger prints on handle and that is where you are supposed to place your thumb and forefinger. Place your fingers in the same place every time. Torque wrenches are calibrated a specific distance from the center of head and if you place your hand in different locations you are changing the leverage (and the torque).
Here are a couple of things I was taught re: torque wrenches 1 - don't use them to loosen fasteners, only to tighten/torque. Good way to screw up the calibration using them as a regular wrench. 2 - the fastener needs to be moving when the set torque is reached, turn steady and consistent, when torque is reached, stop 3 - more than one 'click' isn't going to improve or verify the torque, the first click is all that matters (see #2) 4 - the only way to know the setting is true is to have them checked/tested, or calibrated
And know the "as found" setting when you send it our for calibration. That way you can re-torque all the bolts you torqued with the wrench if it is out of spec.
I saw a shot show video from the guy at Fix It Stix. If i remember it correctly their intended market was 100% cycling and he used to be anti gun. He found that cyclists were cheap skates and somehow his product had been discovered by shooters who have no problem spending the money for quality tools so now his market is mostly shooters with a small % of cyclists.
The vortex branded cdi is good. It comes with a calibration report. Borka blows fixit sticks out of the water. Seekonk fixed drivers are cadillacs. Beepers are only as good as your ability to stop. If it doesn't come with (or have available) a calibration certificate, it's a toy. Fixit sticks charges big boy money for kids toys.
Hi finger/hand position makes a difference and I know extensions make a difference at right angles, I wonder if the extension with that slight slop ,makes it over torquing?
You should take a look at the Real Avid torque wrench. It hits all the items you were looking for. I’m not sure how the repeatability is though as I don’t have anything to check it with.
Tyler, John already has a couple of those: one for Level Right Pro and the other for the Fixit Stix Scope Jack. Both tools work well, and he does a good job of showing how to use them.
The Fat Wrench might not be the best but it beats the hell out of being that guy that says "I've done enough of these I can tell when it's tight enough" LOL These are pretty cool I would've never thought about looking into the bicycle tool section for gun smithing tools.. Have you ever tried the Borka Torque Driver kit??? I've heard a lot of good things about it also.
@@FClassJohn I'm not a competitive shooter or anything but I do a lot of shooting and work on family/friends guns so been looking to upgrade some of my tools. I seen on the X-Ring's channel he likes the Borka tools and now you dropped a video so I got a ton choices to look through. All you GunTubers put out loads of solid info and it's truly appreciate brother!!!
@@DanielBoone337 Glad it helps a little. I'm not an automotive or repair expert and there appears to be some advice from people in those arenas that seems valid too. I actually have three more torque wrenches on order to do more testing with and another video so we will see.
I haven’t and probably won’t but only because everything I’ve heard from guys who have them is that it’s really usage dependent and how and where you place your finger easily changed the end result. I need something I can hand to anyone to use.
I tend to think “real” tools should be used. This means a torque wrench that could/should be used to assemble mechanical components. Tools that are shipped with calibration certificates. Yellow mostly plastic torque wrenches aren’t real tools. I use one of those blue adjustable CDI torque wrenches for most gun stuff.
First off - never use an extension on a torque wrench. It will always give you a false reading - you are guessing at that point and will do just as well with a wrench by feel; you are defeating the purpose. The socket needs to go straight on the head of the wrench-type torque wrench, and the torque wrench must be kept in a perfect perpendicular plane to the fastener. The best style torque wrench for a fire arm is the inch-pound screw-driver type - I use one by Mac Tools, TD95640, for use on carburetors, < $100 bucks. Actually, if you don't know what "just over smart" is on a fastener - you are not mechanically inclined and I can't help you. Using a torque wrench with an extension is an art, and you ain't got it. It looks to me that that you have $1,000 dollars worth of crap and no clue what you are doing. There are no soft bearing materials you are needing to crush on fire arms - these things ain't going to the Moon here John; don't over think this stuff. If you know the material of the fastener, and what you are screwing it into, this stuff ain't rocket science to begin with.
@@DW-35 The truth hurts, and there is nothing dumber that a bag of hammers - I own most hammers, but I know the right one to use to do the job right. Clamping an uncalibrated device in a plastic vise multiple times is probably a bad idea, but to test uncalibrated things in this way is even worse. Hash, maybe; uncalled for - No. Fasteners need to be lubricated for proper even torqueing with any device - I can not tell you haw many ways this video was just bad. Go spend your money on it.... The guy has bought how many devices to do the same job, and he trusts none of them - what part of that do you no understand?
@@Chuck_Carolina Nope, very much still harsh and un called for part 1 & now part 2. Some of the stuff you say isnt entirely correct, also most wont matter enough to matter. John's a really nice guy and makes great content. It's not right to pull him apart, purely in an attempt to show how much better you are at torque tools. Look if you dont like dont watch the rest. Dont resort to being a keyboard bully. Well have a great day and I'm getting back to work. Ive used a torque wrench today, go me 🤣.
You are correct in your opening statements. The main reason the bicycle world has developed and gone to very accurate low range 1-25 nm torque wrenches is due to the explosion of carbon fiber frames, fork tubes, stems, handlebars and saddle rails. These CF components are very sensitive to being over torqued, which can easily crack a CF stem, fork tube, frame at the seatpost collar, etc...
In the past when the frames and components were all alloy you could tighten fasteners by feel and that would be fine. That no longer works in the world of ultra lightweight CF bike frames and CF components.
I have the Effetto Mariposa 1-8 nm red colored torque wrench that you show in this vid, and for the money I'd say it is easily in the top 3 of low torque value torque wrenches you can buy. Other really good low torque value torque wrenches include:
Hazet 5107-3CT 1-9 nm range, 4% accuracy
Topeak Torque Stick 2-10 nm, 4% accuracy (you showed this one in your vid)
Wera A2 2-12 nm, 10% accuracy
When gripping your torque wrench, you are using your thumb on the handel to stabilize the wrench as you turn it. Your thumb is effectively becoming a fulcrum and ruining accuracy. For best accuracy, stabilize the wrench by holding the head with one hand and applying torque to the handle with the other.
That depends on the exact torque wrench model and type but for many yes
His thumb on the head has zero impact on the torque reading on this type of torque wrench. The torque in this wrench is measured by an internal spring and the action of that spring is not impacted whatsoever by his thumb being on the head or not!
I use the Vortex (10-50 in lbs $85) for smaller screws and a 1/4” Tekton dual direction torque wrench (10-150 in lb $50) for larger fasteners. Mechanical torque wrenches only vary 2%-3% in accuracy and are dependable for years so long as they aren’t dropped and stored properly. Remember you can always verify the calibration of a torque wrench by measuring to a set distance and measuring the pull with a scale (5lbs of force on a 6” lever = 30in lbs.) I bought a $10 gunsmithing driver set from Brownells years ago that has every bit driver I’ve ever needed and the 1/4” bits fit both the Vortex directly and the Tekton with bit adapter. Properly torqued fasteners will stretch so the elasticity will hold pressure on the threads maintaining tension, slight variations in torque will have minimal effect on fastener performance.
That Topeak torque wrench has two little finger prints on handle and that is where you are supposed to place your thumb and forefinger. Place your fingers in the same place every time. Torque wrenches are calibrated a specific distance from the center of head and if you place your hand in different locations you are changing the leverage (and the torque).
I saw those and was wondering if that was the case. Makes sense.
Here are a couple of things I was taught re: torque wrenches
1 - don't use them to loosen fasteners, only to tighten/torque. Good way to screw up the calibration using them as a regular wrench.
2 - the fastener needs to be moving when the set torque is reached, turn steady and consistent, when torque is reached, stop
3 - more than one 'click' isn't going to improve or verify the torque, the first click is all that matters (see #2)
4 - the only way to know the setting is true is to have them checked/tested, or calibrated
Yup. Agree with #1
I do number 3, if cant follow 2 hahaha.
And know the "as found" setting when you send it our for calibration. That way you can re-torque all the bolts you torqued with the wrench if it is out of spec.
I recently bought a Husky model screwdriver torque wrench form Home Depot. Seems to work fine.
Tried many torque devices and settled on a Borka set for guns and my carbon bicycles etc. Borka also has slip type limiters.
Great vid John, never would have thought of the biking world. Great idea thank you :-)
Thanks very good video and information. I never thought about looking into bike tools for wrenches for use on guns.
I just got the Vortex kit. It is quite well made and works great
I've had other suggest that one as well. I'll take a look. thank you.
Who’s hands are those? 😁
I saw a shot show video from the guy at Fix It Stix. If i remember it correctly their intended market was 100% cycling and he used to be anti gun. He found that cyclists were cheap skates and somehow his product had been discovered by shooters who have no problem spending the money for quality tools so now his market is mostly shooters with a small % of cyclists.
That's pretty interested, I hadn't heard that.
Wera Safe Torque A2 ( 2-12 NM) is impossible to over torque. Accuracy is around +/- 4%.
I use a Snap-On 1/4” electronic torque driver. It allows me to save presets, and I can have it recalibrated. Downside…..It’s $700.
The vortex branded cdi is good. It comes with a calibration report. Borka blows fixit sticks out of the water. Seekonk fixed drivers are cadillacs. Beepers are only as good as your ability to stop. If it doesn't come with (or have available) a calibration certificate, it's a toy. Fixit sticks charges big boy money for kids toys.
Hi finger/hand position makes a difference and I know extensions make a difference at right angles, I wonder if the extension with that slight slop ,makes it over torquing?
Use the lithium batteries & you won't get that leaking like you do with the alkaline. I've had great experience with Energizer ultimate lithium.
I would also look into the Wera series of torque wrenches.
Would taking the battery out of the torque wrench if its going to be stored for a long time mess it up or mess up the calibration?
I believe that Topeak can be set to 4 units (Nm / kg•cm / in•lb / ft•lb).
Yes that’s correct
Does the topic stick give a obvious click or feel when you reach that torque setting. ?
No not that I remember. It's honestly one of the reasons I stopped using it. It was hard to use when it was noisy around.
You should take a look at the Real Avid torque wrench. It hits all the items you were looking for. I’m not sure how the repeatability is though as I don’t have anything to check it with.
Strelok Pro has a unit converter built in. Handy
Good video. If you can, please make a video about scope levels.
Tyler, John already has a couple of those: one for Level Right Pro and the other for the Fixit Stix Scope Jack. Both tools work well, and he does a good job of showing how to use them.
Snapon ¼ dial torque wrench in inch pounds would have to really hard to beat. Typically used to set rolling torque.
Engine mechanics say #1 never use a torque wrench to loosen fasteners. #2 always back the torque wrench totally zero.
The Fat Wrench might not be the best but it beats the hell out of being that guy that says "I've done enough of these I can tell when it's tight enough" LOL These are pretty cool I would've never thought about looking into the bicycle tool section for gun smithing tools.. Have you ever tried the Borka Torque Driver kit??? I've heard a lot of good things about it also.
I'm sorry but haven't used the Borka but I know a guy who I shoot with on occasion who has one and really likes it.
@@FClassJohn I'm not a competitive shooter or anything but I do a lot of shooting and work on family/friends guns so been looking to upgrade some of my tools. I seen on the X-Ring's channel he likes the Borka tools and now you dropped a video so I got a ton choices to look through. All you GunTubers put out loads of solid info and it's truly appreciate brother!!!
@@DanielBoone337 Glad it helps a little. I'm not an automotive or repair expert and there appears to be some advice from people in those arenas that seems valid too. I actually have three more torque wrenches on order to do more testing with and another video so we will see.
I'm guessing all the people turning wrenches everyday watching are thinking this is pretty hilarious.
John use the EveryReady Bunny brand batteries and you wont have corrosion problems
Thank you.
Have you tried the Borka Torque wrench? I'm curious to see what you think.
I haven’t and probably won’t but only because everything I’ve heard from guys who have them is that it’s really usage dependent and how and where you place your finger easily changed the end result. I need something I can hand to anyone to use.
My snap on 1/4" drive tech angle.+/- 1% accuracy
What is the snap-on part #? My snap-on guy is not aware of a 1% torque wrench, but I have the 2% version.
ATECH1FS100, sorry it should be 2%. Probably fat fingered it when I wrote that reply months ago
Is the torque reading applied to the digital wrench increased because of the distance between the 2 devices ?
It's possible. I was just doing my best to be consistent and I know it's not perfect but it should be pretty darn close.
@@FClassJohn Keep them coming John .
The more pieces between the torque wrench and the part, the more inaccurate will be your reading.
You should keep from touching the head while torquring
Wera 7440/41/42 set best in the world 🌍
I tend to think “real” tools should be used. This means a torque wrench that could/should be used to assemble mechanical components. Tools that are shipped with calibration certificates. Yellow mostly plastic torque wrenches aren’t real tools.
I use one of those blue adjustable CDI torque wrenches for most gun stuff.
Agreed a 1/4" CDI Torque wrench is what? A hundred and twenty bucks on Amazon, doesn't use batteries, and covers 20-150"/lbs?
I just use a Norbar 1-20Nm
You are doing it wrong. You have wrenched it in the wrong spot. There is a symbol which tells you where you have to hold it.
First off - never use an extension on a torque wrench. It will always give you a false reading - you are guessing at that point and will do just as well with a wrench by feel; you are defeating the purpose. The socket needs to go straight on the head of the wrench-type torque wrench, and the torque wrench must be kept in a perfect perpendicular plane to the fastener. The best style torque wrench for a fire arm is the inch-pound screw-driver type - I use one by Mac Tools, TD95640, for use on carburetors, < $100 bucks. Actually, if you don't know what "just over smart" is on a fastener - you are not mechanically inclined and I can't help you. Using a torque wrench with an extension is an art, and you ain't got it. It looks to me that that you have $1,000 dollars worth of crap and no clue what you are doing. There are no soft bearing materials you are needing to crush on fire arms - these things ain't going to the Moon here John; don't over think this stuff. If you know the material of the fastener, and what you are screwing it into, this stuff ain't rocket science to begin with.
Bit harsh and uncalled for.
@@DW-35 The truth hurts, and there is nothing dumber that a bag of hammers - I own most hammers, but I know the right one to use to do the job right. Clamping an uncalibrated device in a plastic vise multiple times is probably a bad idea, but to test uncalibrated things in this way is even worse. Hash, maybe; uncalled for - No. Fasteners need to be lubricated for proper even torqueing with any device - I can not tell you haw many ways this video was just bad. Go spend your money on it.... The guy has bought how many devices to do the same job, and he trusts none of them - what part of that do you no understand?
@@Chuck_Carolina Nope, very much still harsh and un called for part 1 & now part 2.
Some of the stuff you say isnt entirely correct, also most wont matter enough to matter.
John's a really nice guy and makes great content. It's not right to pull him apart, purely in an attempt to show how much better you are at torque tools. Look if you dont like dont watch the rest. Dont resort to being a keyboard bully. Well have a great day and I'm getting back to work. Ive used a torque wrench today, go me 🤣.
@@Chuck_Carolina hope you never torque my scope rings!
@@johnh4957 OK John...
Just skip the gimmicky stuff and get a stahlwille
Weird....I was searching for a torque SCREWDRIVER.