I understand that the driver was OK. He was walking around after being cut out of the car. He was also explaining himself to the track Stewart for the incident report. His roll bar probably saved his life. The only part of the roof that was not crushed was just above his head where the cross-brace attaches.
Yes, he was OK. I saw him walking around and talking to the event officials after he was brought in off the track. I hear the his roll bar was bent, but the cross-brace, attached right above his head, was in tact and kept the bar from bending in that spot. I just purchased a roll bar for my car; I'm sure you can guess why.
yup. Were you #8 in White Group at VIR with Potomac a few weeks ago? If so, great driving! You were definitely the fastest in that group. I watched a few of your sessions from different parts of the track. Your car is so good looking!
Does anybody know what we're the factors leading to the incident...? Looks like it happened on a relatively straight part of the circuit. Never been to WG before and am a relative newbie to driving. Is this a hard braking zone?
Usually a spin like that is from oversteer from accelerating too quickly exiting a turn, but from the skid makrs, he went over the rumble strips on corner exit and caught some oversteer from that alone which causes a spin like this fairly easy. This is all considering no tire punctures. This type of spin happens often actually at WGI between these turns.
From what it looked like to me, he took turn 10 too fast (or faster than he was comfortable with), and then lifted off the throttle at exit. This is called "trailing-throttle over-steer" because lifting off the throttle causes the weight to shift toward the front (and off of the wider drive wheels in the back) causing loss of grip at the back. Ironically, it is the natural reaction to lift off the throttle when you think you will not make a turn--exactly the opposite of what you should do; applying more throttle is usually what is needed because it puts more weight on the rear wheels. If you do that, you may slide a bit, but you will still be able to maintain control if you turn into the skid. That is why skid pad time is so important because it trains you to not lift on oversteer, and how to control the slide. It is also a natural reaction to turn the wheel more when in an understeer situation (when the front wheels lose grip)--again the opposite of what should be done. Unwinding (straightening) or lifting off the throttle are the only two ways of correcting understeer. Staying on the throttle and turning into the skid is the only way to control oversteer. To answer the braking zone question: the braking zone is before the turn. Then you turn, going back on the throttle, full throttle at the apex--don't lift! He hit the wall in the braking zone for turn 11, but he had lost control way before that. If you notice, I straightened out before threshold braking to avoid becoming part of the accident. I moved over into the runoff area because there was metal and plastic debris spreading across the track. I kept going past the accident because there was a car behind me that was going to be coming around the corner at ~100 MPH. After I passed the wreck, I was at the pit entrance. I knew it was going to be a red flag, so I went in instead of being stuck in my hot car, stopped on the front straight for a half-hour while the track was cleared. You are never supposed to stop and help when on a track. There are emergency personnel on standby at all times, and you will just get in their way or get injured yourself. You are also never supposed to get out of your car on a hot track, unless it is on fire.
Possible. But there is one more thing novice drivers do. When they go wide, the automatic reflex is to want to come back to the track. That's when they oversteer the car. Coming out of that turn can be scary as you are at the rumble strips, car is loaded to the max, you have Armco ahead of you. Natural instinct there is to steer left. In Spec Miata we go flat through that turn and we need to get it right and use the entire track. We know the car can do it, but it's loaded, trust me. I have seen this type of crash at that turn few times already. You are better off to run wide, use the grass and slow down a bit then turn left.
@@ameroenterprise8787 At a driving school I attended at the Glen, they had us run through an exercise of deliberately running wide off the track (where possible) to get us comfortable with the idea of going off track rather than risking a spin trying to force the car to stay on track. That was one of the corners they had us practice on. That lesson really stuck with me! Turn 9 at Mosport is also very similar and I've seen a number of cars go into the wall there too.
I had a similar crash on turn 10 last year in my 2016 Cayman GT4 CS. I spun and hit the wall with my passenger side and rebounded all the way across the track before coming to a stop with one wheel missing. My Motec data system recorded the impact at 5gs. Unfortunately, the impact damaged the camera so I lost the video. The car was totaled but I walked away with only sore ribs due to the halo seat and harnesses.
Glad you were OK! I went off at Summit Point last year because a drop link broke on my race car. Hit the wall pretty hard, and worse, I took someone else with me into the wall too. I had 2 broken ribs, but that was the extent of my injuries. After rebuilding the car (including having the frame straightened), I bought a seat that fit better. My old seat was too loose; I think that’s why I broke my ribs. Anyway, thanks for the comment!
Ironically, there is plenty of runoff at the exit of 10 (I used it to avoid all the debris coming off of his car). The problem is that he tried to save it. I agree though, Watkins Glen has a lot of turns with nothing but Armco.
You pulled into the pits rather than stop and protect the driver with your extinguisher or help to extract him? You think "Workers" are competent enough to do that? Corner workers are not the super heroes that people think they are.
Right thing to do was clear the track, especially so close to pits and a bunch of cars coming around that blind corner hot. I sensed the driver thinking about stopping, but then being smart and going to pit. The corner workers don’t respond, BTW, they stay and flag for safety! Know your shit before jumping on someone.
@@JB91710 Complain to management then. Don't try to break the rules or put matters into your own hands. Those rules are for the safety of everybody on the track.
I understand that the driver was OK. He was walking around after being cut out of the car. He was also explaining himself to the track Stewart for the incident report. His roll bar probably saved his life. The only part of the roof that was not crushed was just above his head where the cross-brace attaches.
My wife is never to see this video.
Dude, my track days in October would be CANCELLED.
recorded using Harry's laptimer?
Yup 👍🏻
Wow! That will take the fun out of a track day. Glad he was okay. (Nice driving.)
Very little compression on that turn as compared to rest of WGI, glad he walked away.
Wow. Was there for this event in black group. left before last session. Was driver ok?
Yes, he was OK. I saw him walking around and talking to the event officials after he was brought in off the track. I hear the his roll bar was bent, but the cross-brace, attached right above his head, was in tact and kept the bar from bending in that spot. I just purchased a roll bar for my car; I'm sure you can guess why.
yup. Were you #8 in White Group at VIR with Potomac a few weeks ago? If so, great driving! You were definitely the fastest in that group. I watched a few of your sessions from different parts of the track. Your car is so good looking!
Yes, that was me--#8. Thanks!
What kind of car was it?
@GrandSport: Porsche 944
Does anybody know what we're the factors leading to the incident...? Looks like it happened on a relatively straight part of the circuit. Never been to WG before and am a relative newbie to driving. Is this a hard braking zone?
Usually a spin like that is from oversteer from accelerating too quickly exiting a turn, but from the skid makrs, he went over the rumble strips on corner exit and caught some oversteer from that alone which causes a spin like this fairly easy.
This is all considering no tire punctures. This type of spin happens often actually at WGI between these turns.
From what it looked like to me, he took turn 10 too fast (or faster than he was comfortable with), and then lifted off the throttle at exit. This is called "trailing-throttle over-steer" because lifting off the throttle causes the weight to shift toward the front (and off of the wider drive wheels in the back) causing loss of grip at the back. Ironically, it is the natural reaction to lift off the throttle when you think you will not make a turn--exactly the opposite of what you should do; applying more throttle is usually what is needed because it puts more weight on the rear wheels. If you do that, you may slide a bit, but you will still be able to maintain control if you turn into the skid. That is why skid pad time is so important because it trains you to not lift on oversteer, and how to control the slide.
It is also a natural reaction to turn the wheel more when in an understeer situation (when the front wheels lose grip)--again the opposite of what should be done.
Unwinding (straightening) or lifting off the throttle are the only two ways of correcting understeer. Staying on the throttle and turning into the skid is the only way to control oversteer.
To answer the braking zone question: the braking zone is before the turn. Then you turn, going back on the throttle, full throttle at the apex--don't lift! He hit the wall in the braking zone for turn 11, but he had lost control way before that.
If you notice, I straightened out before threshold braking to avoid becoming part of the accident. I moved over into the runoff area because there was metal and plastic debris spreading across the track. I kept going past the accident because there was a car behind me that was going to be coming around the corner at ~100 MPH. After I passed the wreck, I was at the pit entrance. I knew it was going to be a red flag, so I went in instead of being stuck in my hot car, stopped on the front straight for a half-hour while the track was cleared.
You are never supposed to stop and help when on a track. There are emergency personnel on standby at all times, and you will just get in their way or get injured yourself. You are also never supposed to get out of your car on a hot track, unless it is on fire.
Possible. But there is one more thing novice drivers do. When they go wide, the automatic reflex is to want to come back to the track. That's when they oversteer the car. Coming out of that turn can be scary as you are at the rumble strips, car is loaded to the max, you have Armco ahead of you. Natural instinct there is to steer left.
In Spec Miata we go flat through that turn and we need to get it right and use the entire track. We know the car can do it, but it's loaded, trust me.
I have seen this type of crash at that turn few times already. You are better off to run wide, use the grass and slow down a bit then turn left.
@@ameroenterprise8787 At a driving school I attended at the Glen, they had us run through an exercise of deliberately running wide off the track (where possible) to get us comfortable with the idea of going off track rather than risking a spin trying to force the car to stay on track. That was one of the corners they had us practice on. That lesson really stuck with me! Turn 9 at Mosport is also very similar and I've seen a number of cars go into the wall there too.
I had a similar crash on turn 10 last year in my 2016 Cayman GT4 CS. I spun and hit the wall with my passenger side and rebounded all the way across the track before coming to a stop with one wheel missing. My Motec data system recorded the impact at 5gs. Unfortunately, the impact damaged the camera so I lost the video. The car was totaled but I walked away with only sore ribs due to the halo seat and harnesses.
Glad you were OK! I went off at Summit Point last year because a drop link broke on my race car. Hit the wall pretty hard, and worse, I took someone else with me into the wall too. I had 2 broken ribs, but that was the extent of my injuries. After rebuilding the car (including having the frame straightened), I bought a seat that fit better. My old seat was too loose; I think that’s why I broke my ribs. Anyway, thanks for the comment!
HPDE events that have walls instead of run off area... always sketchy to me. At least till Im skilled enough I wont go to such course I guess.
Ironically, there is plenty of runoff at the exit of 10 (I used it to avoid all the debris coming off of his car). The problem is that he tried to save it. I agree though, Watkins Glen has a lot of turns with nothing but Armco.
holy crap that was a bad roll. like 5 day old sushi roll bad...
You pulled into the pits rather than stop and protect the driver with your extinguisher or help to extract him? You think "Workers" are competent enough to do that? Corner workers are not the super heroes that people think they are.
You are never supposed to get out of your car on a live track unless it is on fire. The “Workers” did a great job, btw.
Right thing to do was clear the track, especially so close to pits and a bunch of cars coming around that blind corner hot. I sensed the driver thinking about stopping, but then being smart and going to pit. The corner workers don’t respond, BTW, they stay and flag for safety! Know your shit before jumping on someone.
@@mikereinhardt5882 They can't flag for shit either. Waving a flag horizontally is hard to see. Watch how many do that.
@@JB91710 Complain to management then. Don't try to break the rules or put matters into your own hands. Those rules are for the safety of everybody on the track.