What a fascinating debate! I think the truth of the matter is a mix of both viewpoints. I love the old Target novelisations quote: "Doctor Who---the children's very own programme which adults adore." Barry Letts said the production office received letters from university professors, didn't he? He and Terrance Dicks began to realise just how broad the audience was. Growing up in 1970s UK, Doctor Who truly was a family event. Everyone knew who Tom Baker was. It's very different today.
It should be written by professional fantasy writers and aimed at a general audience. If you hire fanfiction writers and cosplayers you get trash. What has happened is too many 'adults' ONLY read children's books and watch cartoons and then they don't understand plots or drama or logic.
It is interesting to hear people discuss the new content vs prior content as I wrestle with where I land on this. Loved classic (still do) and the 2000 era, but so far the reboot just cannot get me all that interested. Perhaps its just the fact I am likely out of range of their target audience, or is just a personal thing. I just want good stories! I did dip into Big Finish, but as you said, it does require money, and some times, its just not possible. What volumes I did try out were excellent :)
Do feel RTD is definitely writing for young teens instead of Family and Adult audiences.Feel that terrible Bridgerton episode was an example of that was totally crap meant to target an audience but pleased nobody.feel the old doctor who writers new that appealing to everyone was the answer
Gotta disagree, you don't get like 1/6th of the country watching something made only for Children. If it was for Children the Children's department would have made it, and there was some internal fuss over that as they believed they should be making it. They didn't get to because it's a *family* show. I watched with my parents *because* they'd been watching it since 1963 and kept watching it until I was born and beyond. Heck they kept watching until like 2020, it's only recently they've lost interest. If they'd been always targetting the younger audience of that era everything outside your own childhood wouldn't appeal. If it didn't have mass appeal you wouldn't watch stuff before your time or after it. This is definitely a change. It's a shame that your parents didn't like Doctor Who, but I think the reason it's been so successful is that it became a generational thing. Most kids were introduced to it by their parents, its not a case of their parents watching because the kids do (I don't watch most of watch my kids do, and when they did like the show which was mostly Smith era) it was me introducing it to them. Sadly I can't get them to watch this new era (they did watch Jodie, I think for girls having a female Doctor was a big enough draw even if scripts declined).
From what Russell T Davis and Jinx Monsoon have indicated I believe it’s being made for the new progressive generation and not for the long term fan like me (turning 55 in a month). I’m glad you’re enjoying the current the Doctor Who, but to be honest I can’t stand it. I lost interest after Whitaker’s first season and then tried again with this new Doctor, but nothing has improved and the story telling is so god awful. I still purchase the Big Finish audios and blu rays up to the Capaldi era, as that is where I believe Doctor who ended,and everything after that is a spin off alternative universe. For God sake do you really believe Sutekh was hanging on to the Tardis all that time? This is fan boy fiction and even Russell T Davis has admitted he had this idea when he was 15 . Btw just discovered your channel and have subscribed. Looking forward to watching more of your episodes.
Did you think cringey-dialogue Peter Crap-oldy was good? Disney-Who season 1 + the 60th specials have actually been an improvement. Just compare stories like Wild Blue Yonder & The Giggle with End of the World & anything with the Slitheen in. Also, they haven't brought back the Daleks or Cybermen, it's too bad they brought back Sutekh though. It could have been the only series since series 11 that didn't rely on the bring-back-old-characters crutch.
@@FreeTheDonbas There may have been some cringy dialogue in Capald’s 3rd season when the increasing BBC wokeness started to creep in, but Capaldi was a great actor and still managed to pull it off. I thought he was a fantastic Doctor, where as Gatwa doesn’t seem to have the gravitas to play the Doctor. He’s either over the top joyful or crying in every episode. Now I don’t mind emotion, but if your crying on a regular basis, you don’t know when he is really upset. A bit like crying wolf all the time. Obviously this isn’t completely the actors fault as Davis has written him this way, but to me he just isn’t the Doctor. But once again I’ll state I’m glad your enjoying it, but I’m not and it’s not for me, but there’s plenty of other Doctor who in different forms (novels, audios, Blu ray etc) that we can all find some enjoyment. The other last thing I’ll point out is David’s lazy story telling full of plot holes. He just keeps throwing out mystery boxes and none of it gets answered. Why did it snow around Ruby? If. What hidden song did Maestro detect with in Ruby. Why did the Doctor say time had changed when he went back to Rubys past. All these red herrings and Ruby wasn’t special at all. And I just can’t believe Sutekh would really give a damn about Ruby’s mother or story etc . Clara ‘s story didn’t seem to concern him and she was way more mysterious.This is a God who wants to destroy everything and he’s worried about a girl who can’t find her mother. And don’t get me started with the 73 yards episode. Boom was probably the only tolerable story this season and even that had its faults.
@@thetasigma1905 I was talking about all the cringey, unfunny "jokes" Moffat put in the dialogue & the long, meaningless speeches. And no, I'm not enjoying it. It's still Nu-hu. RTD has always been the laziest "writer" in the universe, whose stories are riddled with plot-holes. All the Nu-hu actors were wrong for the role. The Dr is an eccentric, magniloquent, asexual character, not some bloke, like Eccleston, not Casanova, like Tennant. Both of them were always grinning like imbeciles, crying their eyes, our screaming in a fit of hysteria. That's why my I'm being consistent, while you aren't & no amount of BS about "bad writing" will cut it. Nu-hu has always been defined by its terrible writing. That's what Nuvians love about the show, hence why they dislike the original show. How did you feel about the 60th specials?
@@FreeTheDonbas I loved Moffats sense of humour, the lack of any humour is always a mark of a bad season of Who, but that humour needs to be in the characters, not in some nonsense like belching bins or friggin' "Space Babies". Argh Space Babies. NuWho initially was been defined by inconsistent writing (usually the difference was RTD vs any other guest writer at all, because despite all you say every other writer in series 1 got what Who should be). Nothing in NuWho felt more classic Who than the end of Moffats era. The Zygon Invasion, Under the Lake, Oxygen, World Enough and Time - they all felt like lost stories from 70s. The long meaningless speeches? Gee I guess classic Who never did that. I mean the Zygon Inversion didn't make anyone think of Battlefield.
Doctor Who has always courted young viewers instead of growing up with the old ones, it's what makes DW better than comics & video games which have to toe this weird line of being childish, but with graphic sex & violence. The reason Big Finish only has the budget to produce audio-only content, is bc the audience it appeals to isn't large enough to fund an actual show. I'm a Whovian, but I'd never buy a Big Finish audio, unless I was suffering from insomnia.
What a fascinating debate! I think the truth of the matter is a mix of both viewpoints. I love the old Target novelisations quote: "Doctor Who---the children's very own programme which adults adore." Barry Letts said the production office received letters from university professors, didn't he? He and Terrance Dicks began to realise just how broad the audience was. Growing up in 1970s UK, Doctor Who truly was a family event. Everyone knew who Tom Baker was. It's very different today.
It should be written by professional fantasy writers and aimed at a general audience.
If you hire fanfiction writers and cosplayers you get trash.
What has happened is too many 'adults' ONLY read children's books and watch cartoons and then they don't understand plots or drama or logic.
Totally agree 😊
If the target audience for the last series was tweens and teens then the BBC has a VERY low opinion of their intelligence.
The thing is, I don't think Doctor Who us capturing the age group they are aiming at.
It is interesting to hear people discuss the new content vs prior content as I wrestle with where I land on this. Loved classic (still do) and the 2000 era, but so far the reboot just cannot get me all that interested. Perhaps its just the fact I am likely out of range of their target audience, or is just a personal thing. I just want good stories!
I did dip into Big Finish, but as you said, it does require money, and some times, its just not possible. What volumes I did try out were excellent :)
Spotify has lots of free episodes you can listen to. And there is a new Big Finish podcast that plays free episodes. - I need to find that myself.
Thank god for big finish is all I can say. The home of real Dr Who.
Do feel RTD is definitely writing for young teens instead of Family and Adult audiences.Feel that terrible Bridgerton episode was an example of that was totally crap meant to target an audience but pleased nobody.feel the old doctor who writers new that appealing to everyone was the answer
Doctor Who is aimed at me, and I'm loving it. Oh, and I've been watching since 1974.
I’m glad!
Gotta disagree, you don't get like 1/6th of the country watching something made only for Children.
If it was for Children the Children's department would have made it, and there was some internal fuss over that as they believed they should be making it. They didn't get to because it's a *family* show.
I watched with my parents *because* they'd been watching it since 1963 and kept watching it until I was born and beyond. Heck they kept watching until like 2020, it's only recently they've lost interest.
If they'd been always targetting the younger audience of that era everything outside your own childhood wouldn't appeal. If it didn't have mass appeal you wouldn't watch stuff before your time or after it. This is definitely a change.
It's a shame that your parents didn't like Doctor Who, but I think the reason it's been so successful is that it became a generational thing. Most kids were introduced to it by their parents, its not a case of their parents watching because the kids do (I don't watch most of watch my kids do, and when they did like the show which was mostly Smith era) it was me introducing it to them. Sadly I can't get them to watch this new era (they did watch Jodie, I think for girls having a female Doctor was a big enough draw even if scripts declined).
From what Russell T Davis and Jinx Monsoon have indicated I believe it’s being made for the new progressive generation and not for the long term fan like me (turning 55 in a month). I’m glad you’re enjoying the current the Doctor Who, but to be honest I can’t stand it. I lost interest after Whitaker’s first season and then tried again with this new Doctor, but nothing has improved and the story telling is so god awful. I still purchase the Big Finish audios and blu rays up to the Capaldi era, as that is where I believe Doctor who ended,and everything after that is a spin off alternative universe. For God sake do you really believe Sutekh was hanging on to the Tardis all that time? This is fan boy fiction and even Russell T Davis has admitted he had this idea when he was 15 . Btw just discovered your channel and have subscribed. Looking forward to watching more of your episodes.
Did you think cringey-dialogue Peter Crap-oldy was good? Disney-Who season 1 + the 60th specials have actually been an improvement. Just compare stories like Wild Blue Yonder & The Giggle with End of the World & anything with the Slitheen in. Also, they haven't brought back the Daleks or Cybermen, it's too bad they brought back Sutekh though. It could have been the only series since series 11 that didn't rely on the bring-back-old-characters crutch.
@@FreeTheDonbas
There may have been some cringy dialogue in Capald’s 3rd season when the increasing BBC wokeness started to creep in, but Capaldi was a great actor and still managed to pull it off. I thought he was a fantastic Doctor, where as Gatwa doesn’t seem to have the gravitas to play the Doctor. He’s either over the top joyful or crying in every episode. Now I don’t mind emotion, but if your crying on a regular basis, you don’t know when he is really upset. A bit like crying wolf all the time. Obviously this isn’t completely the actors fault as Davis has written him this way, but to me he just isn’t the Doctor. But once again I’ll state I’m glad your enjoying it, but I’m not and it’s not for me, but there’s plenty of other Doctor who in different forms (novels, audios, Blu ray etc) that we can all find some enjoyment. The other last thing I’ll point out is David’s lazy story telling full of plot holes. He just keeps throwing out mystery boxes and none of it gets answered. Why did it snow around Ruby? If. What hidden song did Maestro detect with in Ruby. Why did the Doctor say time had changed when he went back to Rubys past. All these red herrings and Ruby wasn’t special at all. And I just can’t believe Sutekh would really give a damn about Ruby’s mother or story etc . Clara ‘s story didn’t seem to concern him and she was way more mysterious.This is a God who wants to destroy everything and he’s worried about a girl who can’t find her mother. And don’t get me started with the 73 yards episode. Boom was probably the only tolerable story this season and even that had its faults.
@@thetasigma1905 I was talking about all the cringey, unfunny "jokes" Moffat put in the dialogue & the long, meaningless speeches. And no, I'm not enjoying it. It's still Nu-hu. RTD has always been the laziest "writer" in the universe, whose stories are riddled with plot-holes. All the Nu-hu actors were wrong for the role. The Dr is an eccentric, magniloquent, asexual character, not some bloke, like Eccleston, not Casanova, like Tennant. Both of them were always grinning like imbeciles, crying their eyes, our screaming in a fit of hysteria. That's why my I'm being consistent, while you aren't & no amount of BS about "bad writing" will cut it. Nu-hu has always been defined by its terrible writing. That's what Nuvians love about the show, hence why they dislike the original show. How did you feel about the 60th specials?
@@FreeTheDonbas I loved Moffats sense of humour, the lack of any humour is always a mark of a bad season of Who, but that humour needs to be in the characters, not in some nonsense like belching bins or friggin' "Space Babies". Argh Space Babies.
NuWho initially was been defined by inconsistent writing (usually the difference was RTD vs any other guest writer at all, because despite all you say every other writer in series 1 got what Who should be).
Nothing in NuWho felt more classic Who than the end of Moffats era. The Zygon Invasion, Under the Lake, Oxygen, World Enough and Time - they all felt like lost stories from 70s.
The long meaningless speeches? Gee I guess classic Who never did that. I mean the Zygon Inversion didn't make anyone think of Battlefield.
Glad you have found the channel. Have a look at our back catalogue. We have some BIG names but also many other fascinating guests.
Doctor Who has always courted young viewers instead of growing up with the old ones, it's what makes DW better than comics & video games which have to toe this weird line of being childish, but with graphic sex & violence. The reason Big Finish only has the budget to produce audio-only content, is bc the audience it appeals to isn't large enough to fund an actual show. I'm a Whovian, but I'd never buy a Big Finish audio, unless I was suffering from insomnia.
Well as someone who adores the audios I think you are missing out. But agree with much of what you say.