❗CORRECTION: at 0:53 the frequency for C half-sharp should be 269.29hz, not 269.4hz. I used the wrong sum to work it out, sorry! The pitch I play you though is actually sounding at 269.29hz so you are hearing a true C half-sharp. Thanks to the people who have pointed it out.
yep want to say this because the frequencies are not additive but multiplicative for example A3 = 220 Hz and A4 = 440 Hz, does not mean that A5 = 660 Hz but actually A5 = 880 Hz
First off, thanks for putting this down here, I was going to but clearly you beat me to it. I was wondering, given your statements around the 15 minute mark about songs which are in 12-TET but reject A=440, how you would classify a song which changes its tuning standard throughout the song. For instance, Hideaway by Jacob Collier changes its tuning standard from A=432 to 440 throughout the song. In your opinion, if that song only played within 12-TET in whatever tuning standard it was currently in, would the change in the tuning standard alone qualify it as microtonal?
I’ve been into Microtonality since I was ~16 years old (I’m 60 now), and I can say unequivocally that what you pointed out at time ~15:15 is the single most important point: For me, the most interesting microtonal tunings are those that force you to completely start over from scratch, and that is a huge boon to creativity! “88CET” tuning - 88-cent [per-step] equal temperament, which I discovered (just coincidentally) around 1988 - is an excellent example: No octaves nor fourths, but even more importantly, no major nor minor thirds! Instead, you have: - A dark, yet curiously zippy-sounding subminor (close to a 7:6 frequency ratio), - A neutral third (a perfect fifth split down the middle, and close to 11:9), and - An alarming-sounding supermajor third (close to 9:7) which splits a major sixth right in half. But what’s really curious is that, although it doesn’t have traditional Major and minor thirds, since there’s no octave, 88CET tuning *does* have traditional major and minor *tenths* ! Still, the most important thing about 88CET, and microtonality in general is, as you pointed out, _it gives you no choice_ but to start over and re-discover everything from scratch, which is a boon for creativity! It’s a strap-on-your-backpack, four-month (or 45-year in my case!), live-off-the-land adventure through an alien musical land!
@@Daz912, thanks. I’ve been trying to reply with SoundCloud links to a couple of my 88CET compositions, but they seem to keep disappearing right after I post them. Oh well…
Sure... And I guess that's why microtonality can be easily found in traditional music with traditional instruments not restricted to be tuned a fixed way. Very nice video by the way
@@alberto23 Not really, though, since you'd still want the instruments to be in tune with each other. You'd want the notes that were supposed to sound the same to sound the same, otherwise you're just gonna get a lot of unwanted dissonance.
Quarter notes usually sound weird in western music. In arabic/turkish music theory there are rules to using quarternotes, you have to use them within specific scales or "maqams" that respect certain intervals (for example in the key of C in the maqam of "rast" you skip all sharp/flat notes and you skip E and B, replacing them with E half flat and B half flat, if you don't do that the music sounds weird)
@@ashtar3876 Might this be worth trying? Taking some Japanese pentatonic scale with a quardra-step (four semitones or eight quarter tones wide) or two and adding two micro notes to get a heptatonic scale with a quadra-step or two.
hater: your singing is awful, you are out of tune!! me: i just incorporate microtonality unconsciously you don't understand the complexity of my art...
Nice joke. It is however, often the other way around. 12-tone equal tempered scales are stretched out of tune in order to make transposition possible (Bach well-tempered tuning). This is especially problematic for the major third, where the natural microtonal interval is in tune (with the overtones of the fundamental), while the well-tempered major third is out of tune (too high pitch). See nice video by Tolgahan, where you easily can hear this: ua-cam.com/video/XT4oOYj4SwQ/v-deo.html So we are in fact accustomed to listen to out of tune music.
There is a nice visual video here: ua-cam.com/video/tbOimblyW2E/v-deo.html showing the difference between pure (just intonation) and equal temperament, where it can be seen that equal temperament is out of tune, such as the major third being too high in pitch - sounding quite horrible in that example.
For anyone who might want more microtonality from King Gizzard, their more recent albums "K.G." and "L.W." continue their exploration of microtonality, and are some phenomenal pieces of music
I play the Sarangi. It's a bowed Indian lute with gut playing strings (baroque), played with the cuticle of the nail sliding down the string altering it's tension (fret-less). It allows for perfect microtonality, or what is known as a 'meend' in the Hindustani music system, and allows you to mimic the human voice almost exactly if you know how, including concepts like gamak.
The fact is when we think about youtube or internet as a kmowledge database, we feel that the world is reduced only to the European system approach. Hopefuly the real world is another story.. Arabic, Iranian, indian and many other didn't need Bach to establish their musical langage :)
9:27 in near and middle eastern music, this is the most common scale. It’s not unusual at all. It’s the Diatonic scale on note pa in Byzantine music, used in the first and plagal of the first modes. In ottoman classical music, it’s the ussak flavor on note Dugah, and is used for multiple makams, such as Ussak Bayati Neva Huseyni and more. It’s also used in the corresponding Arabic maqams. For people that grew up in other countries, this is the normal.
It's really interesting to see different understandings of common concepts from around the world. I'm Turkish, I play Bağlama and this video is nothing new or extra-ordinary for me. But on the other side of the globe there are some people that have never experienced various feelings of various makams just listening to the exact same guitar and piano frequencies..
@@caidalee1994as a matter of fact, microtonality was common in _European_ music as well, all the way up to and through the Middle Ages. It's a part of the western musical tradition, we just let frilly folk in wigs yeet it out of our musical vocabulary.
so i used to think that was the original song as i had only seen the vine, and i wondered why it sounded so grossly out of tune. now i know that the “photo” part was edited out so the transition was just really abrupt lmao
I said in my head "if he doesn't talk about king gizzard, he lost all my respect" but then you did, so here you go. You have respect from a random internet bloke. Be proud of it. Btw lovely video :)
This entire video is why I like playing the violin - whenever there’s a sharp or a flat, I can slide my finger up or down and make it as flat or as sharp as I want to. It’s really interesting, and definitely adds some intrigue to whatever I’m playing since I can decide what I think will complement the note before or after it best.
And that's why violins can also play in perfect harmony with mathematically perfect ratios, not just the approximation of the 12 subdivisions between the perfect 1:2 ratio of the octave! Truly OP instrument
Rattlesnake is the first song on flying microtonal banana and was written intentionally to introduce the listener to microtones so that subsequent songs aren't overwhelming, that's why its so repetitive :) later songs like Anoxia and Nuclear Fusion are a lot more involved. Also their most recent album K.G. is their second exploration into microtonal tuning and I think its one of their best albums yet, give Intrasport a listen its so fun!
Honestly, flying microtonal banana is a perfect album for someone getting into microtones but doesn’t want to be overwhelmed, each song gets less repetitive than the last, does more with its micro toning and just generally frees itself more. By the last song, vocals aren’t even needed anymore as you listen to a microtonal instrumental track that flows incredibly well.
I think this is why I love fretless bass so much. The microtonal nature of it just adds a tension to the rest of the orchestration that’s really satisfying to me.
As someone who always struggled to read music and STILL finds music theory perplexing, I love how I can enjoy these videos because the material is explained in such a way that, although I can't comprehend the details and terminology, I can grasp the CONCEPT. So well done.
There’s rumors of new microtonal songs! They have said they’re working on some jazzy stuff, microtonal stuff, and on Cavs Instagram story a little ways back, he posted a picture of some pretty crazy time signatures. So hopefully we have something coming soon
Could either be a hint to another Microtonal album (there have been more rumours about this)...or, it's the first volume of 5 records released in 2017. People have found 2,3,4, and 5 hidden in the other 4 albums
@@willful759 I can't find the insta post anymore, but here's a screenshot from the subreddit www.reddit.com/r/KGATLW/comments/garkuw/cavs_just_posted_a_video_on_his_story_showing_a/
They are in fact working on more microtonal music.(Yay) I read it when they did a reddit ama for the release of Chunky Shrapnel (watch if you can). I think it was Stu himself who gave that answer. I too really enjoyed that album and I have high hopes for the next one, but they’re King Gizz so I’m positive they’re gonna nail it
Microtonality can convey very subtle emotion. When used well, including timbre of course, it can conveys an un-earthly-ness, eerieness or meditative (or drunkeness, lol)
I'd barely heard of King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard before, but this video convinced me to give their music a shot. And I'm really liking the band so far! Thanks for expanding my musical horizons and convincing me to give this Australian prog rock band with a doofy name a real shot.
They now have 3 full length microtonal albums and they’re all awesome. I think everybody in the world should hear the song Intrasport, it’s like a 24TET Turkish club banger.
So SO happy King Gizzards featured on this channel. recently got into them and theyre fucking amazing. Possibly the most talented band of the last decade.
Lee McDonald they added microtones because that was the point of the album, and the songs sound similar because they’re all following the same concept of microtones
This was a really well-realised explanation of a pretty trippy concept! Adam Neely's video on microtonality recommended an IDM artist called Sevish who uses microtonality in a really tasteful way, I'd recommend anyone interested in the topic after watching this video to listen to any of their albums to get a feel for what timbres and vibes you can experience from listening to microtonal music. Sevish has become a go-to artist for me when I fancy listening to something a bit out there, but still totally digestible.
I absolutely love the videos that Adam Neely has made about this topic and I've loved other vids about Jacob Collier, which is why I'm so excited that you've made a vid too. Thank you for uploading! I really appreciate you continuing to upload to keep us entertained. :D
I much prefer Bennett to Neely, I think the way he conveys his points is much easier to understand and I like how he uses popular songs to demonstrate his points
Excellent. I have synesthesia, as in I can see patches of colour when I hear music and close my eyes. The pattens and colours change according to tone and pitch and harmonies (Oboes, bassoons and big phat synths work best). Microtonal music gives a different visual effect to normal. It has a finer texture and is more geometrical than the blobby coloured clouds I usually get. Before anyone asks, No, I don't use any recreational substances. Even the swoosh sounds of a dishwasher running has a pale blue/ green transparent thing associated with it. Doesn't happen when I'm driving because when I am focused on looking at things moving outside the synesthesia source goes away. It has made sight reading sheet music harder. When you get going the page looks coloured in with many thin layers of different watercolour paints and you can't read it fast enough. Normally I would try to learn as much of the score as possible, then not rely on it too much when playing in a large group.
I'm always happy to hear about people with superpowers, the world would be so boring with out diversity, hopefully it was not a great burden in your life ant it was a great source for it to make your life and those around you richer.
@@nemo4evr thank you. My mother has this also and I have her to thank for my lifelong enjoyment of many different types of music. I was in my mid-twenties before I found out it wasn't like what most other people have.
When I started playing drums my tutor commented that I closed my eyes when playing. I could see shapes when I played and was "following"? the patterns. I don't get this when I play the guitar, though, only the drums.
I'm so glad that this video suddenly appeared for me today as I'm currently notating my song from vocal melody using notation software. I had a note that just wasn't sounding quite how I wanted. The song is in D flat major and it was the 7th that needed a quarter step rise. Your videos teach me so much. Thanks.
Great video, thank you! I think violin (and co) are very suitable for playing microtonal music, they have been used in Arabic/Turkish/Persian music for a long time. Also, there are keyboards that support microtuning. The scale that King Gizzard use for Rattlesnake (and most of their songs) is called Maqam Bayati, and it's exactly like you described it in the key of F#, but sometimes you don't detune the 6th note.
Quarter-tones are more common in Arabic music, especially with the use of Oud or Violins. Some Arabic scales such as rast, saba, sikah, and bayati has some quarter-tones.
@Ce Ha try reading "Inside Arabic Music: Arabic Maqam Performance and Theory in the 20th Century". The author also plays the oud, I think it'll be quite helpful :)
My examples of microtones in popular music: Beastie Boys - "(You Gotta) Fight For Your Right (To Party)" when they say "PAAAAAAAARty!" Billy Idol - "Eyes Without a Face" when he says "SUCH a human waste" Sinéad O'Connor - "Nothing Compares 2U" multiple times (including "hours", "night") but most notably every time she says "TO you"
This is actually a scale in a lot of music. It’s the diatonic scale on note pa in Byzantine music, it’s the ussak scale on dugah in Ottoman Classical music, and many more near and middle eastern traditions. It is probably the most commonly used scale in those countries.
Really like that piece you came up with at the end there....it's like it shifts between sinister and soothing in a split second and somehow sounds good doing so. Also reminds me of some of the masterpieces from the 8-bit era...there's definitely a shade of those castle levels in SMB somewhere in there.
Your composition has a cool vibe. I like it. I don’t think I’ll be diving into the world of microtonality anytime soon but it’s always nice to learn new stuff. Thanks, David.
I considered talking about that actually. In those crescendo segments the string instruments are asked to start at the bottom of their range and then finish on an E major chord. As they do so they are passing through microtonal notes because they are glissandoing. But I think it would be considered more an example of atonality than microtonality as the end result is meant to be a dissonant, tense chaos!
How about the traditional Indian music in George Harrison’s Beatles songs? Also When I’m 64 is sped and therefore is recorded a semitone sharp although as stated in this video, it wouldn’t qualify as microtonal.
The acapella piece with the 'modulation' key changing in the first chords is very interesting. I haven't until now heard a microtonal piece that sounded good to my 'western tuned' ears. It's really fascinating how having a sort of 'ear tuning' initial chord progression to go from what we are used to to something different makes our ears adjust to make it less jarring and learn to like it.
8:45 this sounds too normal and beautiful to me, I just want western music to improve themselves about Turkish and Arabic maqams and educate us about western harmony. That would be a good exchange for art
@@nisakuday1600 Please check out the album Flying Microtonal Banana this song is off of if you haven't yet, so many good songs on there using this sound!
I’ve been interested in microtonal music since the algorithm recommended Sevish to me years ago. I’m still amazed by his ability to make music with seemingly any tuning system imaginable.
@@DrSardonicus I agree with that rant wholeheartedly. When I first heard Sevish it felt sad to know that not many people would appreciate it even though for me it was really magical. And that turned out to be true when I tried to introduce it to others. However I suppose culture is always evolving little by little so who knows what western people 10+ years from now think about it. Though I agree that western opinions are given a ridiculous emphasis compared to other traditions like those in India and China.
There are also lots of other people like Sevish and Jacob Collier who are constantly ignored in the discussions. You can tell that the right material hasn’t really been recommended to people yet.
They Might Be Giants have a few excellent songs with microtones! I think my favorite is Dog, which uses retuned piano samples to achieve about 31 tones per octave.
I know im late to this but if anyone wants to hear some real micro tonal music look up Sevish. He is an amazing electronic artist that uses so much microtonal scales from 5 tet to 313 edo (diffrent tuning type) hes just so good at this stuff and has an amazing video about how to make a song like this.
+1 to sevish! he's my favourite microtonal musician right now. he does it so seamlessly, so that it doesn't sound out of place at all, but still sounds weird and otherworldly.
@SArpnt i could be wrong but they are slightly different as far as i know. Edo (equal divisons in the octive) is where there are all the same distance from each other in the octive (like A440 to A880). TeT is ever so slighly diffrent where you can still be discibe it under some sort of edo but still have sight difference, this could include stuff out of the octive. I will admit as a music prodser who mainly makes music with is in 12tet or atonal music i have only dabble in microtonal music and quickly switched in working with noises and speed music sence they are easyer to acses in mow daws (not needed new vsts and learning someting out of what i normaly use). Im defiantly willing to learn tho
You'll hear this a lot in western music, in many jazz bass lines. Even in the Sweet Child of Mine solo, I'm pretty sure there's a half-bend/quarter-bend somewhere. Just as some examples.
I started playing music on a piano and then later transitioned to percussion, specifically mallet percussion. In my training however, I also played timpani, which doesn't have the same tonal limitations of these other instruments. It's very interesting to see how this freedom is used by many composers in the 20th century.
It was really lovely. I would have liked to hear you talk about just intervals. The 2.5 semitone interval you used in your piece is close to a 7/6 ratio, the interval between the fifth and a seventh in a just dominant seventh chord. I think it was Adam Neely who pointed out that the just dominant seventh is used in barbershop quartet music.
Another piece that uses the micro tonal interval is Dolphin Shoals from Mario Kart 8. The saxophone solo climaxes to a high G half flat before going back to the beginning of the song again.
The microtonal song you wrote is the most pleasing to the ear microtonal song I've ever heard. Which, granted, isn't saying a whole lot, but honestly I did find it catchy and fun to listen to!
Jacob Collier's single "All I need" modulates to G half sharp, and it still feels so pop-like. This is an example of music that can sound like pop but can still be filled with insanely interesting musical content.
11:31 This is a cheat, though. This is practically in 12et throughout; it's just that the pitch standard changes two or three times, going up a total of half a semitone.
14:00, I never knew what it was like to be out of tune, until I heard that smooth pass, and I actually could hear it!!! If you can’t tell, I don’t play music
Here is my my most recently compiled list of must-listen microtonal music in popular/accessible genres: Jack Tickner: Reassuring Weight jacktickner.bandcamp.com/album/reassuring-weight Sean Archibald (aka Sevish): Sean but not heard seanarchibald.bandcamp.com/album/sean-but-not-heard Zia: Four-Momentum split-notes.com/zia-four-momentum/ Mercury Tree: Spidermilk themercurytree.bandcamp.com/album/spidermilk James Mulvale/Fast-fast: New Color Bomb jamesmulvale.bandcamp.com/album/new-color-bomb Ilevens: Transmitter ilevens.bandcamp.com/album/transmitter A clarification/nitpick: The note with a frequency of 269.4 Hz isn't actually halfway between 261.6 Hz and 277.2 Hz, because our perception of pitch is logarithmic. The pitch halfway in between them is 261.6*2^(50/1200) = ~269.3 Hz. (Small difference here, but much bigger differences when you're finding halfway between notes further apart.) If you'll excuse the shameless self-promotion, anyone curious about "microtonality"/"xenharmonic music" is welcome to check out the temperament tutorials on my channel which take you well beyond the typical "just add a note in between all the notes we already have" methods that lead so many people to 24 tone equal temperament.
I fell in the microtonal music rabbit hole after finding out there were quarter tones in arabic music. I'm so glad it is being casually discussed, because as hard as it can be to the beginner music theory student, it's also very satisfying to hear. strongly recommend Sevish to discover more microtonal and xenharmonic music!
Very well written video! Since you asked what other music pieces we know that have microtones at the end, the entire Undertale OST (By Toby Fox) is in 24TET. I highly recommend listening to his works, not only the Undertale stuff.
@@3r4mindflayerok so you sent me down a complete rabbit hole, but I think that power of neo has half sharps, I had to look at pictures of the sheet music since I don’t own the book, and idk what other songs do.
Apparently Fallen Down is in the key of d-half-sharp iirc but i don't think any of the music is actually in 24-tet, just in 24-tet keys. i really want to be wrong but i never heard any half-sharps in any of the ost songs sooooo@@3clipse449
He makes his music in the 12-tet Fl Studio. The microtonality that you are hearing is because he speeds up and slows down his songs to give a different emotional effect, which occasionally lands in microtonal territory
I love how microtonatity sounds, your music is great too! Since I’m a little bit tired of ordinary notes, probably. It’s really like exotic keys, but even more exiting. Thanks a lot for your work)
Just added " Study in 24-tone equal temperament " track to my "Laid Back Stuff" and "Leftfield" Spotify Playlists - haunting and rather lovely. Nice one David. V interesting vid too.
IMO 24-EDO is among the less pleasant sounding microtonal tunings. It can work, of course, as many have demonstrated, but you really have to work for it. I think it's because the quartertone steps are rather more dissonant than the semitones we're used to, but this isn't something inherent to the territory. I much prefer 36-EDO; the sixthtone step is much more pleasant sounding, and I find a major third that's 33.33 cents sharp sounds quite nice.
@@SCWood 17 is a prime number, though, so your only choice for evenly walking up or down the octave is its basic step size (compare to 12-EDO where you could also use six whole tones, four minor thirds, three major thirds or two tritones). Whereas 12 and 36 are both not only not prime, but are both highly composite numbers, meaning they have more factors (and thus ways to evenly to walk up the scale) than any smaller number.
The riff of Pantera's "Walk!" features a quarter tone bend on a strong beat, and since the riff only has 3 notes, this is the first example of microtonality that springs to my mind. Also the solo has some really long bluesy glissandos that conjure up that microtonal sting of slight discomfort... (Pantera also rarely if ever recorded in standard 440Hz pitch). Excellent video!
Another extremely interesting video. I love that you go all in, and create a piece yourself using what you are teaching about. You are a true teacher, one who walks the talk. I enjoyed your piece, too. : )
When I think of quarter tones in modern western music the first thing that comes to mind for me is the 1/4 bend in "Purple Haze" by Jimi Hendrix. It may not be a great example of a microtone, but it's the first tune that I think of because of my familiarity with it.
Lots of blues players use quarter bends, Jimi falls within that tradition. I feel like that is a true example of microtonality. I wouldn't consider any bend that ends on a whole-step or half-step as microtonal. It has to stop on a microtone, or really stand on it to highlight it.
The most interesting quarter note is the F𝄱 (F half-sharp), which is harmonic in the of the natural (C major) scale. It has a frequency ratio of 11:8 and can be easily played on the alphorn.
9:52 I agree with you with regard to 24et, which is two independent copies of 12et. There are other microtonal tunings, where writing harmonies might not be so challenging. For example, 19et (P5 is 11 steps; M3 is 6) or 31et (P5 is 18 steps; M3 is 10). In each of these, there is a single circle of fifths. Either of these gives the copmposer wider musical possibilities. There are more pitches per octave to write tunes with. There are more intervals with a chord's root to add to a chord, so you can make added-note chords even jazzier. And there are more pitches to use as roots of chords -- it'll take you more than 3 giant steps to go around these circles of fifths!
I've just started to learn about carnatic music (classical music from the south of India). Their conception of melody and tuning is so much rich than ours...
The one Jacob does, going from a normal key to the half sharp key, in THREE chords almost to where you can't distinguish what is happening/has happened, is amazing. I noticed he moved the chords well apart, in frequency centers, if you will, but I'll bet there was a LOT more work done than that to make that work. What a mind! I used to sing a fair amount in choirs and some solo work, and I didn't catch it until I saw June Lee's after the fact score. Amazing. If someone had told me they could do that and slip it by, I would have probably said "Not likely". Stuff he's doing now doesn't do ANYTHING for me, but he's following his own star, as he should. I'll just be happy when that star falls back into some of what I, personally, consider music. It is amazing to me how NON jarring the piece @ 16:30 is for a microtonal piece. It sounds like the composer has made some similar kind of effort to what Jacob did to making it sound less 'abnormal' to western ears. Good vid.
IMO that's the only one that uses microtonality well. The classical piece shown just sounded like two out of tune pianos, the King Gizzard song just sounds like a dude needs to tune his guitar lmao.
Hi Again, This is Vijay. I play Indian classical Karnatic music on the violin. We use a lot of microtones and bent notes. Karnatic music is primarily melodic music. Your video made a lot of sense to me as I relate to my music. Happy to interact.
Indian Classical Music is completely based on these microtunes. The singers are so mastered to sing them easily and there are instructions that can play them 👍👍
❗CORRECTION: at 0:53 the frequency for C half-sharp should be 269.29hz, not 269.4hz. I used the wrong sum to work it out, sorry! The pitch I play you though is actually sounding at 269.29hz so you are hearing a true C half-sharp. Thanks to the people who have pointed it out.
You should probably pin this
I thought I had! Thanks for the heads up
yep want to say this
because the frequencies are not additive but multiplicative
for example A3 = 220 Hz and A4 = 440 Hz, does not mean that A5 = 660 Hz but actually A5 = 880 Hz
My disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined. Haha just kidding, you’re awesome. Great video!
First off, thanks for putting this down here, I was going to but clearly you beat me to it.
I was wondering, given your statements around the 15 minute mark about songs which are in 12-TET but reject A=440, how you would classify a song which changes its tuning standard throughout the song. For instance, Hideaway by Jacob Collier changes its tuning standard from A=432 to 440 throughout the song. In your opinion, if that song only played within 12-TET in whatever tuning standard it was currently in, would the change in the tuning standard alone qualify it as microtonal?
"The human voice is not constricted to any tuning system" is my new rebuttal when someone insults my singing ability
Hahahahaha, I feel you.
I'm not a bad singer, I'm singing microtonally.
Same for violinists, violaists, cellists etc.
Genius🤣
A toddler in my neighbourhood is very good at microtonal free jazz. A true genius
OP: Whats the note between C and C#.
Me: That's C++.
Cringe
@@anuvette No
I failed to play along with the song Jumper (from Geometry Dash) in either C or C# major, since Jumper is in C half-sharp major.
lol nice one. It is indeed the half sharp sign sideways when referring to the programming language "C++." Thanks for that laugh.
r/foundtheprogrammer
I’ve been into Microtonality since I was ~16 years old (I’m 60 now), and I can say unequivocally that what you pointed out at time ~15:15 is the single most important point: For me, the most interesting microtonal tunings are those that force you to completely start over from scratch, and that is a huge boon to creativity!
“88CET” tuning - 88-cent [per-step] equal temperament, which I discovered (just coincidentally) around 1988 - is an excellent example: No octaves nor fourths, but even more importantly, no major nor minor thirds! Instead, you have:
- A dark, yet curiously zippy-sounding subminor (close to a 7:6 frequency ratio),
- A neutral third (a perfect fifth split down the middle, and close to 11:9), and
- An alarming-sounding supermajor third (close to 9:7) which splits a major sixth right in half.
But what’s really curious is that, although it doesn’t have traditional Major and minor thirds, since there’s no octave, 88CET tuning *does* have traditional major and minor *tenths* !
Still, the most important thing about 88CET, and microtonality in general is, as you pointed out, _it gives you no choice_ but to start over and re-discover everything from scratch, which is a boon for creativity!
It’s a strap-on-your-backpack, four-month (or 45-year in my case!), live-off-the-land adventure through an alien musical land!
This needs to be at Top. I would love to see more people react to this. And hear what they say of this
Very interesting comment
Very interesting
@@Daz912, thanks. I’ve been trying to reply with SoundCloud links to a couple of my 88CET compositions, but they seem to keep disappearing right after I post them. Oh well…
@Vikhr, cool: On SoundCloud:
Composer/performer = Gary Morrison
Titles = _Different Drummer_ and _New Awakening_
Nothing super-profound, but fun!
Love how clear and accessible you make this challenging topic - and thanks for the shout out!
Thanks David! Your videos were more than helpful when I was researching this script!
the bromance.... my two heroes....... bro im cyring :'^)
David Bruce in da house!
Microtonality: When two guitar players jam together at the beach but each of them tuned by "hearing"
Sure... And I guess that's why microtonality can be easily found in traditional music with traditional instruments not restricted to be tuned a fixed way.
Very nice video by the way
@@alberto23 Not really, though, since you'd still want the instruments to be in tune with each other. You'd want the notes that were supposed to sound the same to sound the same, otherwise you're just gonna get a lot of unwanted dissonance.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 That’s pretty much true!
A guitar's carateristic of simply not staying in tune, sometimes throws me off
I once heard that the definition of a “minor second” was two fretless bass players, playing in unison.
Quarter notes usually sound weird in western music. In arabic/turkish music theory there are rules to using quarternotes, you have to use them within specific scales or "maqams" that respect certain intervals (for example in the key of C in the maqam of "rast" you skip all sharp/flat notes and you skip E and B, replacing them with E half flat and B half flat, if you don't do that the music sounds weird)
Probably why some of that experimental classic music sounds so weird and gimmicky but hearing turkish music and such feels normal
@@ashtar3876 the only kind of western music i heard that sounded good and used quarternotes is a king gizzard and the lizard wizzard album
@@ashtar3876 Might this be worth trying? Taking some Japanese pentatonic scale with a quardra-step (four semitones or eight quarter tones wide) or two and adding two micro notes to get a heptatonic scale with a quadra-step or two.
And this is not equally half.
Indeed rules north Indian classical as well. I mictrotones in the blues or jazz otherwise they sound odd in western music
hater: your singing is awful, you are out of tune!!
me: i just incorporate microtonality unconsciously you don't understand the complexity of my art...
I love this joke, but then I remember that there are people who unironically think this and some of them are musicians... 🙄
Nice joke. It is however, often the other way around. 12-tone equal tempered scales are stretched out of tune in order to make transposition possible (Bach well-tempered tuning). This is especially problematic for the major third, where the natural microtonal interval is in tune (with the overtones of the fundamental), while the well-tempered major third is out of tune (too high pitch). See nice video by Tolgahan, where you easily can hear this:
ua-cam.com/video/XT4oOYj4SwQ/v-deo.html
So we are in fact accustomed to listen to out of tune music.
Hahaha 🤣
There is a nice visual video here:
ua-cam.com/video/tbOimblyW2E/v-deo.html
showing the difference between pure (just intonation) and equal temperament, where it can be seen that equal temperament is out of tune, such as the major third being too high in pitch - sounding quite horrible in that example.
@@stephenweigel RIGHT?! Anyone who truly understands it understands why humans can't enjoy it.
I never would've thought that I'd live to see the day that "Rattlesnake" had an academic breakdown
I was thinking the same thing
RATTLES ME
rattle.... rattle.... rattle
Hahaha, yeah
Funny thing about that, i think the vid plays a concert version of the song
For anyone who might want more microtonality from King Gizzard, their more recent albums "K.G." and "L.W." continue their exploration of microtonality, and are some phenomenal pieces of music
Also Gumboat soup, sketches of brunswick and Demos Vol 3, 4 has some microtonal songs
Love sketches of Brunswick, one of my favorite albums ever
Flying Microtonal Banana is better
@@sammalla5238why be so toxic? Just enjoy the music man
@@kivi7105 who's being toxic? I just stated my opinion fam
I’m a simple man. I see king gizzard, I click.
Me too, mate
Yeah
Indeed.
and now we got even more microtonal gizz to enjoy with K.G. out
@@teddyn3051 Indeed again
I play the Sarangi. It's a bowed Indian lute with gut playing strings (baroque), played with the cuticle of the nail sliding down the string altering it's tension (fret-less). It allows for perfect microtonality, or what is known as a 'meend' in the Hindustani music system, and allows you to mimic the human voice almost exactly if you know how, including concepts like gamak.
I am Iranian and micro tonality is very common in our traditional music
Lucky . . .
@Joshua Sanchez i'm glad to hear that
Balkan music as well
The fact is when we think about youtube or internet as a kmowledge database, we feel that the world is reduced only to the European system approach. Hopefuly the real world is another story.. Arabic, Iranian, indian and many other didn't need Bach to establish their musical langage :)
A lot of folk music. Norwegian as well :)
6:38 ah yes whenever a group sings happy birthday you can hear the microtones.
The semitones too ahaha
Relatable af😂😭
😂🤣👌
you mean *THE MINI-MICROTONES* ?
9:27 in near and middle eastern music, this is the most common scale. It’s not unusual at all. It’s the Diatonic scale on note pa in Byzantine music, used in the first and plagal of the first modes. In ottoman classical music, it’s the ussak flavor on note Dugah, and is used for multiple makams, such as Ussak Bayati Neva Huseyni and more. It’s also used in the corresponding Arabic maqams. For people that grew up in other countries, this is the normal.
It's really interesting to see different understandings of common concepts from around the world.
I'm Turkish, I play Bağlama and this video is nothing new or extra-ordinary for me. But on the other side of the globe there are some people that have never experienced various feelings of various makams just listening to the exact same guitar and piano frequencies..
While I agree with you, one must remember that he did title the video “microtonality in *Western* music”.
@@caidalee1994as a matter of fact, microtonality was common in _European_ music as well, all the way up to and through the Middle Ages.
It's a part of the western musical tradition, we just let frilly folk in wigs yeet it out of our musical vocabulary.
Pretty sure that nickleback “look at this graph” edit moves to a microtone
Oh my god you're right
Look at this gra-𝄭aph
so i used to think that was the original song as i had only seen the vine, and i wondered why it sounded so grossly out of tune. now i know that the “photo” part was edited out so the transition was just really abrupt lmao
People call it out of tune in the comments, but it truly is microtonal, and people can't realise the true art in it.
WAIT IT ACTUALLY IS WHAT
omG
🤣🤣🤣
I said in my head "if he doesn't talk about king gizzard, he lost all my respect" but then you did, so here you go. You have respect from a random internet bloke. Be proud of it.
Btw lovely video :)
This entire video is why I like playing the violin - whenever there’s a sharp or a flat, I can slide my finger up or down and make it as flat or as sharp as I want to. It’s really interesting, and definitely adds some intrigue to whatever I’m playing since I can decide what I think will complement the note before or after it best.
@@romeohio19 not so hard 😅
And that's why violins can also play in perfect harmony with mathematically perfect ratios, not just the approximation of the 12 subdivisions between the perfect 1:2 ratio of the octave! Truly OP instrument
Sir, you need to stop that....
(enchants violin with Sharpness V)
Well there go my flats
Of course, I had to think about Nokia Arabic Ringtone.
@The Commenter Formerly Known as Doug Dimmadome that's cringe
@The Former Doug Dimmadome it really is
@@bandi_TEE it's meant to sound cringe.
Exactly.
Same, that is the one thing I think about, and not king gizzard.
@The Former Doug Dimmadome "Aby filleenstoonez"
Rattlesnake is the first song on flying microtonal banana and was written intentionally to introduce the listener to microtones so that subsequent songs aren't overwhelming, that's why its so repetitive :) later songs like Anoxia and Nuclear Fusion are a lot more involved. Also their most recent album K.G. is their second exploration into microtonal tuning and I think its one of their best albums yet, give Intrasport a listen its so fun!
Honestly, flying microtonal banana is a perfect album for someone getting into microtones but doesn’t want to be overwhelmed, each song gets less repetitive than the last, does more with its micro toning and just generally frees itself more. By the last song, vocals aren’t even needed anymore as you listen to a microtonal instrumental track that flows incredibly well.
I think this is why I love fretless bass so much. The microtonal nature of it just adds a tension to the rest of the orchestration that’s really satisfying to me.
Imagine "Flight of the Bumblebee" with microtones
Sacreligious
TwoSet is shaking
Nice pfp
then you would have to play at 30 notes per second
If you can microtones slowly, you can microtones quickly.
The glissando in Rhapsody in Blue makes me feel so good.
felt pride as a clarinet player when he chose that as the example lmao. its just *chef kiss*
Same.
It goes “weeee!”.
Weeeee
One of the reasons why it’s my favourite piece of classical music 💓💓💓
God it just feels soooo
As someone who always struggled to read music and STILL finds music theory perplexing, I love how I can enjoy these videos because the material is explained in such a way that, although I can't comprehend the details and terminology, I can grasp the CONCEPT. So well done.
The fact that on the Cover of Flying Microtonal Banana there is a small "Volume 1" gives me the hope that one day we see the return of the banana!
There’s rumors of new microtonal songs! They have said they’re working on some jazzy stuff, microtonal stuff, and on Cavs Instagram story a little ways back, he posted a picture of some pretty crazy time signatures. So hopefully we have something coming soon
Could either be a hint to another Microtonal album (there have been more rumours about this)...or, it's the first volume of 5 records released in 2017. People have found 2,3,4, and 5 hidden in the other 4 albums
@@aidanmcmullan9351 do you have a link to the instagram post?
@@willful759 I can't find the insta post anymore, but here's a screenshot from the subreddit www.reddit.com/r/KGATLW/comments/garkuw/cavs_just_posted_a_video_on_his_story_showing_a/
They are in fact working on more microtonal music.(Yay) I read it when they did a reddit ama for the release of Chunky Shrapnel (watch if you can). I think it was Stu himself who gave that answer. I too really enjoyed that album and I have high hopes for the next one, but they’re King Gizz so I’m positive they’re gonna nail it
Microtonality can convey very subtle emotion.
When used well, including timbre of course, it can conveys an un-earthly-ness, eerieness or meditative (or drunkeness, lol)
Yeah, u a absolutely right!
has excellence in "mysterious" feel tbh, almost without fail things feel strange when messing around with microtonality
Microtonality is widely used in Eastern music and it can actually convey subtle emotion
In the second 35 the microtonality can be heard more obvious
ua-cam.com/video/kGU4DDmBFpE/v-deo.html
@@gab1981 if course a glissando interval from A to D, is also a perfect 4:3 ratio slide.
I'd barely heard of King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard before, but this video convinced me to give their music a shot. And I'm really liking the band so far! Thanks for expanding my musical horizons and convincing me to give this Australian prog rock band with a doofy name a real shot.
They now have 3 full length microtonal albums and they’re all awesome. I think everybody in the world should hear the song Intrasport, it’s like a 24TET Turkish club banger.
I can't believe I found a video like this on UA-cam
This is so unbelievably good
Thank you!
Microtonality is so common in middle eastern music that it doesn't even sound weird to us!
s deverent It does... in Middle Eastern music!
And recommendations of stuff to check out?
Can you give some suggestions to check out please?
@@4everstela search out oud music pieces... They are the ancestor to the guitar and influenced spanish music.
Indeed some microtonal notes make a song sound a bit middle eastern in my ears and that actually makes these songs interesting and different.
Great video! Outside of the western world, microtonality is present in many traditional classical music traditions.
The piece you wrote at the end was one of my favourite microtonal vibes. Really trappy and dystopian sounding, love it!
It sounds like a Risk of Rain song
It reminded me of 2 songs: ua-cam.com/video/jyyjJK-jh8k/v-deo.html and ua-cam.com/video/LbZj4C0AmKM/v-deo.html
@@holytaco. Good link to David O'Brien. Mysterons is also similar to this.
So SO happy King Gizzards featured on this channel. recently got into them and theyre fucking amazing. Possibly the most talented band of the last decade.
Started listening to them in 2018, theyre awesome! "Sleep Drifter" is my absolute fav~ ❤
Lee McDonald they added microtones because that was the point of the album, and the songs sound similar because they’re all following the same concept of microtones
@Lee McDonald You can't actually say nuclear fusion, billabong valley, open water and the title track are the same song. Thats plainly wrong my G.
@Lee McDonald your criticism literally only work for rattlesnake
Swans though
This was a really well-realised explanation of a pretty trippy concept! Adam Neely's video on microtonality recommended an IDM artist called Sevish who uses microtonality in a really tasteful way, I'd recommend anyone interested in the topic after watching this video to listen to any of their albums to get a feel for what timbres and vibes you can experience from listening to microtonal music. Sevish has become a go-to artist for me when I fancy listening to something a bit out there, but still totally digestible.
I absolutely love the videos that Adam Neely has made about this topic and I've loved other vids about Jacob Collier, which is why I'm so excited that you've made a vid too.
Thank you for uploading! I really appreciate you continuing to upload to keep us entertained. :D
Salty lollipops loved his microtonal lo-fi hip hop vid.
Thanks Salty!
@@DavidBennettPiano oh god please don't refer to me as Salty that sounds really odd just 'dude' will do fine :)
@@vishnugopakumar8807 but that is your username?¿? 🤔
I much prefer Bennett to Neely, I think the way he conveys his points is much easier to understand and I like how he uses popular songs to demonstrate his points
Excellent.
I have synesthesia, as in I can see patches of colour when I hear music and close my eyes. The pattens and colours change according to tone and pitch and harmonies (Oboes, bassoons and big phat synths work best).
Microtonal music gives a different visual effect to normal. It has a finer texture and is more geometrical than the blobby coloured clouds I usually get.
Before anyone asks, No, I don't use any recreational substances.
Even the swoosh sounds of a dishwasher running has a pale blue/ green transparent thing associated with it. Doesn't happen when I'm driving because when I am focused on looking at things moving outside the synesthesia source goes away. It has made sight reading sheet music harder. When you get going the page looks coloured in with many thin layers of different watercolour paints and you can't read it fast enough. Normally I would try to learn as much of the score as possible, then not rely on it too much when playing in a large group.
I'm always happy to hear about people with superpowers, the world would be so boring with out diversity, hopefully it was not a great burden in your life ant it was a great source for it to make your life and those around you richer.
@@nemo4evr thank you. My mother has this also and I have her to thank for my lifelong enjoyment of many different types of music. I was in my mid-twenties before I found out it wasn't like what most other people have.
When I started playing drums my tutor commented that I closed my eyes when playing. I could see shapes when I played and was "following"? the patterns.
I don't get this when I play the guitar, though, only the drums.
nemo4evr it’s not really a super power, it’s a disorder without any real world negatives.
Are you on the autistic spectrum?
I'm so glad that this video suddenly appeared for me today as I'm currently notating my song from vocal melody using notation software. I had a note that just wasn't sounding quite how I wanted. The song is in D flat major and it was the 7th that needed a quarter step rise. Your videos teach me so much. Thanks.
14:43 I saw what you did there. Tuning the error sound A456 too.
Very well spotted!
Imagine having this level of perfect pitch
I was searching for this comment, that's really clever indeed
This has to be one of the best channels on youtube
Wow! Thank you!
Great video, thank you!
I think violin (and co) are very suitable for playing microtonal music, they have been used in Arabic/Turkish/Persian music for a long time. Also, there are keyboards that support microtuning.
The scale that King Gizzard use for Rattlesnake (and most of their songs) is called Maqam Bayati, and it's exactly like you described it in the key of F#, but sometimes you don't detune the 6th note.
That composition of yours at the end of the video is really good! It sounds like music that would play in a cave level of a video game.
Bass clarinet profile? It seems as you are a person of culture
this man sounds like the music equivalent of tom scott.
like.... absolutely.
i love that
@Simply Randomicate a little bit
hate to be that guy but it depends where ur from. Most people that have either tom Scott's or this guys accent would disagree.
@@johnmarston4012 I think OP meant in terms of how they talk/describe things, not their specific accents
Quarter-tones are more common in Arabic music, especially with the use of Oud or Violins. Some Arabic scales such as rast, saba, sikah, and bayati has some quarter-tones.
I'm an arabic musician. I play an instrument called the "Oud "
And dude microtonal music is the standard 😅😂😂
Same with Indian sub-continent music
@Ce Ha i think there's no book
Because they had great memorizing skill
@Ce Ha try reading "Inside Arabic Music: Arabic Maqam Performance and Theory in the 20th Century". The author also plays the oud, I think it'll be quite helpful :)
@Ce Ha My pleasure. I'm an Arab myself and a music major. if you have any questions or anything you're curious about you can always find me here :)
Oud music is great
The quarter tones in the bit of “Rattlesnake” almost song like notes with a heavy amount of chorus effect on them. Pretty cool
You should check out more of King Gizzard if you like that. They're my favorite band of the 2010s, they're super inventive
@@malcolmforsythe4329 ayyy Gizz buddy
@@rasberry797 ayy
My examples of microtones in popular music:
Beastie Boys - "(You Gotta) Fight For Your Right (To Party)" when they say "PAAAAAAAARty!"
Billy Idol - "Eyes Without a Face" when he says "SUCH a human waste"
Sinéad O'Connor - "Nothing Compares 2U" multiple times (including "hours", "night") but most notably every time she says "TO you"
King Gizz is an incredible band
vDamien yesss!! They use microtonal music in some of the most creative ways
eeeeeeeeyyyyyyyuuuuuuuuuppppp
I've never heard of them before. But "Flying microtonal banana" is such a great name for an album
@@ruanfogo1401 I definitely recommend giving it a listen
All the half sharps just shred my brain. It’s just a symptom of TET I tbinn
I see King Gizzard and The Lizzard Wizard, I click Stu's face
Westerners: finally normalizing microtones
Traditional Middle Eastern musicians: first time?
9:26 wow this is so trippy, just the scale on it's own sounds so Gizzard
Absolutely
Turkish, it sounds Turkish
@@leonardo9259 yes, it’s the Turkish scale of the ussak makam.
This is actually a scale in a lot of music. It’s the diatonic scale on note pa in Byzantine music, it’s the ussak scale on dugah in Ottoman Classical music, and many more near and middle eastern traditions. It is probably the most commonly used scale in those countries.
@@vasiliskaranos605 hello bro, do you know the corresponding arabic name to the ussak makam ?
I am always impressed by how much research you put in. You really do your homework, and it makes your vids really stand out
Really like that piece you came up with at the end there....it's like it shifts between sinister and soothing in a split second and somehow sounds good doing so. Also reminds me of some of the masterpieces from the 8-bit era...there's definitely a shade of those castle levels in SMB somewhere in there.
Your composition has a cool vibe. I like it. I don’t think I’ll be diving into the world of microtonality anytime soon but it’s always nice to learn new stuff. Thanks, David.
Do the transitions in “A Day in the Life” use microtonality?
I considered talking about that actually. In those crescendo segments the string instruments are asked to start at the bottom of their range and then finish on an E major chord. As they do so they are passing through microtonal notes because they are glissandoing. But I think it would be considered more an example of atonality than microtonality as the end result is meant to be a dissonant, tense chaos!
@@DavidBennettPiano this is brilliant ua-cam.com/video/oNPCiBY5IZ8/v-deo.html
It’s like bending up a guitar string. Technically it does pass through tones in between notes but it doesn’t really count as microtonal music
I believe I have revolutionised the popular song, would you be interested in viewing what I e done with veiw to featuring me.
How about the traditional Indian music in George Harrison’s Beatles songs? Also When I’m 64 is sped and therefore is recorded a semitone sharp although as stated in this video, it wouldn’t qualify as microtonal.
The acapella piece with the 'modulation' key changing in the first chords is very interesting. I haven't until now heard a microtonal piece that sounded good to my 'western tuned' ears. It's really fascinating how having a sort of 'ear tuning' initial chord progression to go from what we are used to to something different makes our ears adjust to make it less jarring and learn to like it.
David Bennett: "So why don't we have access to these notes on a piano?"
ME: "Ah, that's why..."
8:45 this sounds too normal and beautiful to me, I just want western music to improve themselves about Turkish and Arabic maqams and educate us about western harmony. That would be a good exchange for art
ua-cam.com/video/oJq7jE9b2aM/v-deo.html&ab_channel=QuentinMackenzie more turkish inspired
Exactly! That song sounds like something out of the 70s rock scene in Turkey, like something Baris Manco would have played 50 years ago lol.
@@nisakuday1600 Please check out the album Flying Microtonal Banana this song is off of if you haven't yet, so many good songs on there using this sound!
As always brilliant and interesting. Thank you for the hard work.
Thank you!
I’ve been interested in microtonal music since the algorithm recommended Sevish to me years ago. I’m still amazed by his ability to make music with seemingly any tuning system imaginable.
@@DrSardonicus I agree with that rant wholeheartedly. When I first heard Sevish it felt sad to know that not many people would appreciate it even though for me it was really magical. And that turned out to be true when I tried to introduce it to others. However I suppose culture is always evolving little by little so who knows what western people 10+ years from now think about it. Though I agree that western opinions are given a ridiculous emphasis compared to other traditions like those in India and China.
There are also lots of other people like Sevish and Jacob Collier who are constantly ignored in the discussions. You can tell that the right material hasn’t really been recommended to people yet.
Woah! Your attempt at microtonal composition sounds awesome! Congrats David!
They Might Be Giants have a few excellent songs with microtones! I think my favorite is Dog, which uses retuned piano samples to achieve about 31 tones per octave.
I know im late to this but if anyone wants to hear some real micro tonal music look up Sevish. He is an amazing electronic artist that uses so much microtonal scales from 5 tet to 313 edo (diffrent tuning type) hes just so good at this stuff and has an amazing video about how to make a song like this.
Sounds good to me, thanks for the recommendation. The Mercury Tree are another great band to look into if you like your microtonal music.
+1 to sevish! he's my favourite microtonal musician right now. he does it so seamlessly, so that it doesn't sound out of place at all, but still sounds weird and otherworldly.
@SArpnt i could be wrong but they are slightly different as far as i know. Edo (equal divisons in the octive) is where there are all the same distance from each other in the octive (like A440 to A880). TeT is ever so slighly diffrent where you can still be discibe it under some sort of edo but still have sight difference, this could include stuff out of the octive.
I will admit as a music prodser who mainly makes music with is in 12tet or atonal music i have only dabble in microtonal music and quickly switched in working with noises and speed music sence they are easyer to acses in mow daws (not needed new vsts and learning someting out of what i normaly use). Im defiantly willing to learn tho
@SArpnt yea i saw that from sevish. But i also see a lot of places saying otherwise so i was unser about it.
Not only does he use different TETs/EDOs, but he also does some non-octave and non-equal tunings. It's pretty great!
I had to check the description first to make sure you talked about King Gizzard! Great work!
You'll hear this a lot in western music, in many jazz bass lines. Even in the Sweet Child of Mine solo, I'm pretty sure there's a half-bend/quarter-bend somewhere. Just as some examples.
I started playing music on a piano and then later transitioned to percussion, specifically mallet percussion. In my training however, I also played timpani, which doesn't have the same tonal limitations of these other instruments. It's very interesting to see how this freedom is used by many composers in the 20th century.
Your composition has a very calming dream-like quality to it!
Your microtonal composition is fab! It sounds pleasant even for the western-music-trained ear. Reminds me of buddhist sound bowls
Hey thats me and my guitar at 8:13! That was a surprise to see haha, great video!
Confirmation Failed. Please Try Again Later.
@@watch_2011 wtf does this mean?
Not You(?)
@@watch_2011 I’m confused what you mean? It’s not me in this vid?
Ok ok. I'll accept it.
"No I'm not out of tune, I'm just improvising microtonally"
I say pitch should be limited at 6 frequencies. 12 is blasphemous already.
rusty cage david bennett fan 🤔
its already a thing, its call macrotonal but is generally discussed and spoke of under general terms of microtonality from what I read.
I like your composition in the end
Thanks!
It was really lovely. I would have liked to hear you talk about just intervals. The 2.5 semitone interval you used in your piece is close to a 7/6 ratio, the interval between the fifth and a seventh in a just dominant seventh chord. I think it was Adam Neely who pointed out that the just dominant seventh is used in barbershop quartet music.
Yeah very Selected Ambient Works II. I think that might actually have some microtonality hidden in there
This good mate good music do more of it
@@DavidBennettPiano Is there anywhere we can listen to that composition on its own? I really like it
Another piece that uses the micro tonal interval is Dolphin Shoals from Mario Kart 8. The saxophone solo climaxes to a high G half flat before going back to the beginning of the song again.
Interesting!
*does it?*
@@maddie_1122 Yes, it's hitting what is commonly referred to as the "blue note" which is effectively the 11th harmonic
@@AttitudeCastle I play dolphin shoals all the time and I never noticed that
There's a song in Kirby Super Star that uses microtonality, as well - Trees in the Depths of the Earth
The microtonal song you wrote is the most pleasing to the ear microtonal song I've ever heard. Which, granted, isn't saying a whole lot, but honestly I did find it catchy and fun to listen to!
Does "Don't look back in anger" sound horrible to perfect pitch people
I guess you could say, that _Some Might Say_ there are people who think it sounds horrible, full stop.
@@adamheywood113 I think they just roll with it
It sounds horrible in general not just to perfect pitch people.
@@dismith73 Hey Now
@moscowguitarman it's at least a tad boring no? But I mean no offense, i just don't like Oasis. If you do, more power to you
all of king gizzard and the lizard wizard
Na, only flying microtonal banana.
gumboot soup and sketches of Brunswick East also had some microtonal tracks, I also think acarine from fishing for fishies might have had some
I'm in Your Mind Fuzz too
Gorlemm nah, they didn’t start messing around with microtones until banana. I’m in your mind is pre nonagon which is pre banana
@@beyonddreamland273 There is 1 microtonal lick in Robot Stop, see if you can spot it! (hint- the music vid may help out)
Those king Gizzard albums are so rad. Thanks for the video!
I really liked the composition at the end !
Jacob Collier's single "All I need" modulates to G half sharp, and it still feels so pop-like. This is an example of music that can sound like pop but can still be filled with insanely interesting musical content.
Quant Spazar he modulates to g-half sharp for in the bleak midwinter, and all i need also modulates to a microtonal key
11:31 This is a cheat, though. This is practically in 12et throughout; it's just that the pitch standard changes two or three times, going up a total of half a semitone.
14:00, I never knew what it was like to be out of tune, until I heard that smooth pass, and I actually could hear it!!! If you can’t tell, I don’t play music
Here is my my most recently compiled list of must-listen microtonal music in popular/accessible genres:
Jack Tickner: Reassuring Weight
jacktickner.bandcamp.com/album/reassuring-weight
Sean Archibald (aka Sevish): Sean but not heard
seanarchibald.bandcamp.com/album/sean-but-not-heard
Zia: Four-Momentum
split-notes.com/zia-four-momentum/
Mercury Tree: Spidermilk
themercurytree.bandcamp.com/album/spidermilk
James Mulvale/Fast-fast: New Color Bomb
jamesmulvale.bandcamp.com/album/new-color-bomb
Ilevens: Transmitter
ilevens.bandcamp.com/album/transmitter
A clarification/nitpick: The note with a frequency of 269.4 Hz isn't actually halfway between 261.6 Hz and 277.2 Hz, because our perception of pitch is logarithmic. The pitch halfway in between them is 261.6*2^(50/1200) = ~269.3 Hz. (Small difference here, but much bigger differences when you're finding halfway between notes further apart.)
If you'll excuse the shameless self-promotion, anyone curious about "microtonality"/"xenharmonic music" is welcome to check out the temperament tutorials on my channel which take you well beyond the typical "just add a note in between all the notes we already have" methods that lead so many people to 24 tone equal temperament.
I fell in the microtonal music rabbit hole after finding out there were quarter tones in arabic music. I'm so glad it is being casually discussed, because as hard as it can be to the beginner music theory student, it's also very satisfying to hear.
strongly recommend Sevish to discover more microtonal and xenharmonic music!
Flying microtonal banana
OMG I absolutely love your microtonal piece at the end. damn
The song you made was weirdly amazing. I think you really outdone yourself man, I wanna hear more!
Very well written video! Since you asked what other music pieces we know that have microtones at the end, the entire Undertale OST (By Toby Fox) is in 24TET. I highly recommend listening to his works, not only the Undertale stuff.
IT IS??? which songs??
@@3r4mindflayerok so you sent me down a complete rabbit hole, but I think that power of neo has half sharps, I had to look at pictures of the sheet music since I don’t own the book, and idk what other songs do.
Apparently Fallen Down is in the key of d-half-sharp iirc but i don't think any of the music is actually in 24-tet, just in 24-tet keys. i really want to be wrong but i never heard any half-sharps in any of the ost songs sooooo@@3clipse449
@@3clipse449i think toriel’s theme (fallen down) might be, it sound’s slightly detuned
He makes his music in the 12-tet Fl Studio. The microtonality that you are hearing is because he speeds up and slows down his songs to give a different emotional effect, which occasionally lands in microtonal territory
That piece at the end sounds like something from Aphex Twin’s Selected Ambient Works vol. II
Thanks!
AFX is a big advocate for people creating their own scales, I remember that from somewhere.
that is the comment i was looking for
I came here in the comments to mention Aphex Twin and Autechre.
I love how microtonatity sounds, your music is great too! Since I’m a little bit tired of ordinary notes, probably. It’s really like exotic keys, but even more exiting. Thanks a lot for your work)
Just added " Study in 24-tone equal temperament " track to my "Laid Back Stuff" and "Leftfield" Spotify Playlists - haunting and rather lovely. Nice one David. V interesting vid too.
IMO 24-EDO is among the less pleasant sounding microtonal tunings. It can work, of course, as many have demonstrated, but you really have to work for it. I think it's because the quartertone steps are rather more dissonant than the semitones we're used to, but this isn't something inherent to the territory. I much prefer 36-EDO; the sixthtone step is much more pleasant sounding, and I find a major third that's 33.33 cents sharp sounds quite nice.
17 TET is similar in that it's almost as well adjusted to the harmonic series as 12 TET, but with more notes.
@@SCWood 17 is a prime number, though, so your only choice for evenly walking up or down the octave is its basic step size (compare to 12-EDO where you could also use six whole tones, four minor thirds, three major thirds or two tritones). Whereas 12 and 36 are both not only not prime, but are both highly composite numbers, meaning they have more factors (and thus ways to evenly to walk up the scale) than any smaller number.
Wow this video has actually convinced me to attempt to work on something in this system. Great stuff.
Great!
Really appreciate the quality of your language, makes these videos far easier to watch
A piano in my school has got quarter tones😎
Firstly I was jealous, then I realized
@Jonas Byrne that it is probably just out of tune
G I V E
@Mack yeah. My every piece sounded so awesome that my friends were overwhelmed with emotions on every butter note
Same
The riff of Pantera's "Walk!" features a quarter tone bend on a strong beat, and since the riff only has 3 notes, this is the first example of microtonality that springs to my mind. Also the solo has some really long bluesy glissandos that conjure up that microtonal sting of slight discomfort... (Pantera also rarely if ever recorded in standard 440Hz pitch). Excellent video!
I also heard they turned a quarter step down more than once before.
Another extremely interesting video. I love that you go all in, and create a piece yourself using what you are teaching about. You are a true teacher, one who walks the talk. I enjoyed your piece, too. : )
When I think of quarter tones in modern western music the first thing that comes to mind for me is the 1/4 bend in "Purple Haze" by Jimi Hendrix. It may not be a great example of a microtone, but it's the first tune that I think of because of my familiarity with it.
Lots of blues players use quarter bends, Jimi falls within that tradition. I feel like that is a true example of microtonality. I wouldn't consider any bend that ends on a whole-step or half-step as microtonal. It has to stop on a microtone, or really stand on it to highlight it.
The most interesting quarter note is the F𝄱 (F half-sharp), which is harmonic in the of the natural (C major) scale. It has a frequency ratio of 11:8 and can be easily played on the alphorn.
preach!
9:52 I agree with you with regard to 24et, which is two independent copies of 12et. There are other microtonal tunings, where writing harmonies might not be so challenging. For example, 19et (P5 is 11 steps; M3 is 6) or 31et (P5 is 18 steps; M3 is 10). In each of these, there is a single circle of fifths.
Either of these gives the copmposer wider musical possibilities. There are more pitches per octave to write tunes with. There are more intervals with a chord's root to add to a chord, so you can make added-note chords even jazzier. And there are more pitches to use as roots of chords -- it'll take you more than 3 giant steps to go around these circles of fifths!
I've just started to learn about carnatic music (classical music from the south of India). Their conception of melody and tuning is so much rich than ours...
The one Jacob does, going from a normal key to the half sharp key, in THREE chords almost to where you can't distinguish what is happening/has happened, is amazing. I noticed he moved the chords well apart, in frequency centers, if you will, but I'll bet there was a LOT more work done than that to make that work. What a mind! I used to sing a fair amount in choirs and some solo work, and I didn't catch it until I saw June Lee's after the fact score. Amazing. If someone had told me they could do that and slip it by, I would have probably said "Not likely".
Stuff he's doing now doesn't do ANYTHING for me, but he's following his own star, as he should. I'll just be happy when that star falls back into some of what I, personally, consider music. It is amazing to me how NON jarring the piece @ 16:30 is for a microtonal piece. It sounds like the composer has made some similar kind of effort to what Jacob did to making it sound less 'abnormal' to western ears. Good vid.
IMO that's the only one that uses microtonality well. The classical piece shown just sounded like two out of tune pianos, the King Gizzard song just sounds like a dude needs to tune his guitar lmao.
Hi Again, This is Vijay. I play Indian classical Karnatic music on the violin. We use a lot of microtones and bent notes. Karnatic music is primarily melodic music. Your video made a lot of sense to me as I relate to my music. Happy to interact.
Indian Classical Music is completely based on these microtunes. The singers are so mastered to sing them easily and there are instructions that can play them 👍👍
Konse gaane bhai? Thode examples chahiye
@@DiffensiveE All Hindustani Classical Music is based on these