Why this battle was so damn weird
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- Опубліковано 26 вер 2024
- The Battle of Naboo is one of the weirdest battles in Star Wars history, we'll discuss all that and more in today's Star Wars lore.
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It looks like they're fighting on the Windows XP Bliss wallpaper
I love that wallpaper, I have it on my gaming PC
Probably were, or at least an early version of it
woudn't it be funny, if George or some other from Lucas Film was also cruising throug the Sonoma Valley in the mid 90s when the picture was taken and made it from their subconscious
There was a version of the Windows XP wallpaper going around for a while that had the droid and Gungan armies deployed for battle on it. I had it on my computer for a couple of years.
Some of the Naboo shots were probably real photography of central/northern California in the early Springtime, or at least were based on them. That's also where that Windows XP desktop BG photo was taken.
The battle makes sense from the perspective of two military forces that haven't fought a real war in a very long time but have continued to develop new weapon systems and tactics for those weapon systems in the interim.
Very true. During the Crimea War, American Civil War, Russo-Japaness War all the way to World War I, technology was developing so rapidly that when WW1 started everyone was caught off guard at the destructive capacity. The lessons were self evident in hindsight, but only to Captains with superpowers knew about it.
@@steve6333 A great example from that era was the machine gun. They were treated as just another form of artillery, both in terms of tactics and how they were designed. In to WW2 you still saw machine guns mounted on the carriage for a cannon so it could be pulled by a horse when wheeled in to a stationary position rather than mounted on a tripod or bipod so it could be disassembled and carried by the infantry.
Same goes for mortars, there is a captured WWI German mortar at the cemetery near where I live. its mounted on a wheeled carriage with a tow hitch rather than it having a bipod and base plate like a modern mortar. It was meant to be used by the artillerymen in an artillery company who dragged it behind a horse rather than by the mortarmen who were organic to the infantry company who move and fought alongside the riflemen in modern mobile warfare.
Love how people have all these excuses for the prequels but beginning having a go at the sequels. They give lots of sympathy to the prequels that also have tonnes of plot holes and the sequels are ripped apart iver minuscule details(I admit they do have many plot holes and issues but not many more than the prequels)
@@erihic7172because they were made by a single person and they had a system kinda. The sequels kinda went out of the system. Hyperdrives as an example where you can't do that within a gravity well but they did TELEPORT near planet surface many times. Hyperdrives is not teleportation for example.
@@warbrain1053 also despite all the pacing, dialogue, and other problems with the prequels. They at least had a cohesive overarching narrative, both of how anakin became vader and how the republic became the empire. And there is a lot of good to be said about that narrative. The sequels have nothing cohesive about them at all, each movie is a completely different plot with no real relation between them and it has a lot of the same pacing and dialogue problems as the prequels on top of that. There is very little redeeming of the sequels while people can at least look at the prequels for what they were meant to be.
To be truthful Padme did say it was to draw away the droid army from Theed. So diversion battles are always common.
Qui gon also basically said “y’all are gonna fucking die hard”
And thicc ass boss nass was like
“It’s cool”
@@creed8712 Gungans are a “proud warrior race” (like Dothraki) according to Jar Jar, so dying in battle protecting their homeland was honorable to them. I guess.
Or , ya know, dying like lemmings
@@theglitchcounter264 difference?
@@Oblong-Orange efficiency lol
Don't forget that it was said in Attack of the Clones that Nute Gunray had four trials before the Republic's Supreme Court, only to not face any consequences other than substantial fines.
Yeah the vast level of corruption in the senate was one of the leading factors to so many worlds breaking away from the republic in the clone wars
Art imitates reality or whatever.
Yes our government is corrupt from the very top down, and Lucas intended to illustrate this in his movies, but don't forget, there are still good people trying to fight the system, like Bail Organa and Mon Mothma.
Seems about right.
@@jeffmuller1489 It's too bad that the likeliest scenario is that in reality, Bail Organa and Mon Mothma were probably gangstalked by the CIA, kidnapped, blackmailed using their own children and subsequently silenced, their deaths deemed a suicide.
I actually went back and revisited this film recently, and you know what really stood out to me about the battle specifically? The sound effects. The hover of the tanks coming over the hill, the shots colliding with the Gungan shields, the deployment of the battle droids, the whole thing really did sound great 😊
The droids beginning to march in synch with with the Droid Army March. Fuckin' perfect!
@@Cpt_JackSparrow Indeed it was 😊
Yeah, the foley work is always pretty stellar in SW stuff.
@@Cpt_JackSparrow yeah it's not just the visuals, or the lore, but also the music that was stellar. The Droid March is on Par with the Imperial march in my opinion.
I think I was 9 at the time, i thouught it looked really cool. I watched it many many times when I was a kid on VCD & DVD. But... the Sequels make no sense, not cool, weak story line and don't feel like Star WArrs....
It's also possible that, in the earlier iteration of the battle droids and their control system, their limited computational capacity meant they were more suited to mass, formation warfare as opposed to more squad based, dynamic warfare you'd start seeing crop up in the Clone Wars series.
As for the Gungans,, their entire strategy revolved around their Shields as a linchpin. As such their strategy was suited to their tech and gear.
A lot of Gungan tactics and SOPs seem to revolve around fighting duels rather than fighting as a team: individual Gungans can be seen performing quite well when the shields are destroyed, but it doesn't matter because the droids can coordinate and cover each other. If you watch KNIGHTFALL in Episode III, you can see the same thing happen: Knights fight alone, kill a lot of troopers, and eventually get overwhelmed and die because they're fighting alone.
@@AJadedLizard Yeah, frankly the Battle of Theed follows a very old and tired movie battle scene trope of two large battle lines clashing and then the various scenes following showing mostly individual soldiers dueling. That's just not how armies used to fight. In a real battle, if your battle lines break then you've more than likely already lost the fight. Ah well, apart from that it's a great battle scene. The Shield Generators provide an interesting twist that makes the battle stand somewhat favorably out among the worst offenders.
@@SuperFriendBFG The scene of the droids advancing into basically a solid wall of deflected blaster fire is still very striking to this day and a great nonverbal way to show how unflinching the droids are.
I do refer to the Battle of Wakanda from Infinity War as Naboo 2.0 though because it's basically a dumber version of this battle; this battle at least has some logical reason to occur the way it does.
@@AJadedLizard the battle of Wakanda does seem similar once you wrote it 😅 gaint shields, dumb but large amount of enemies and for some reason the good guys don't use guns. And it was also a diversion to buy time for a separate group to save the Day.
In the Clone Wars series, you don't see squad tactics in the C.I.S. until the deployment of supertactical droids and the widespread use of standard tactical droids embedded in droid formations.
It stands to reason that the average droid can't do much unless directed, and for the organic generals, directing such an army without tactical/supertactical droids it'd be much like playing an RTS videogame. They'd send their troops to attack an objective, and they'd assume standard formation and move out to swarm the objective head-on, just like a videogame. It's basically an army with no officers or NCOs.
Once we see tactical/supertactical droids on the battlefield taking the role of officers in the case of supertacticals, and NCOs in the case of tacticals, we also see droids using more varied arms and drone models in combined infantry and mechanized warfare, as we, as actual tactics that do not include rushing head on.
The fact that the viceroy is still in power after all he has done is quite realistic in my opinion I really like it lmao
Yeah I mean Eck said that it doesn't make much sense. But look at how often CEOs of big corporations get away with war crimes themselves. Like responsible for violent military coups installing fascist dictators in previously democratic countries because their leader nationalized some natural resources. Or arming terrorist groups so that the corporation can take control of oil pipelines in the middle east.
Star Wars is just more direct and on the nose.
Their secret handler just got elected chancellor, it was probably not too difficult for him to pardon them.
And its even a point in Ep 2, where even in-universe the people cant believe it.
"an evil space wizard mind controlled us into doing this" is probably a pretty effective defense when the Jedi themselves can confirm that a Sith Lord was present on Naboo fighting for the Trade Federation.
Don't forget that by episode 2 the Trade Federation was anti-sith and supported Count Duku's claims that the republic was under the influence of a Sith Lord. They probably ratted on Sidious during their trial and that with a few generous bribes and Palpatine's secret support allowed them to get off.
It is brought up in Episode II, apparently his lawyers got him out of it
On the Nute Gunray part, in Attack of the Clones Sio Bibble says, "It's outrageous, that after four trials in the Supreme Court, Nute Gunray is still the Viceroy of the Trade Federation." so the Republic "tried" to bring him to justice, they were just terrible at it lol
Most likely due to the influence of Sidious.
@@harbingerdawn Yeah, when discussing the Republic's failings, people always seem to forget that all of this was orchestrated by Sidious right from the start. When the Republic fails to bring the Trade Federation to justice, it's not because of corruption or incompetence necessarily, it's because Sidious doesn't want them to.
Would be an interesting arc to have seen in TCW - like a scene where he's on trial smoozing his way out, Nemiodian style..
@@michealdrake3421 And how do you think he achieves this? There has to be massive corruption for him to exploit in the first place. He's just one man, not all-powerful.
@@EvenBiggerPharmathey at least have him doing shadow operations while others represent the Trade Federation in the Senate
I always thought the Gungan's plasma balls were some form of ion weapon due to the droids short circuiting. This battle was odd for me because it made me a fan of Gungans, but it took me so long to forgive Jar-Jar for existing. I do hope we get more examples of out there technology and species in Star Wars, and we see more things like Gungans showing up.
The new Thrawn books feature a Chiss weapon very similar to the Gungan's boombas, they are called plasma spheres and are an Ion based weapon that's pretty damn effective if used right.
it’s funny how since i was younger i sympathized with jar jar far more and never even knew people hated him lol
I’ve heard this called the most sci-fi battle you could get.
The way Star Wars is going I highly doubt we'll see much more of it. Pretty much all the main characters (at least the male ones) have been completely destroyed.
Jar Jar is Star Wars
The blockade being legal is pretty simple when you realize that the Trade Federation is a recognized power in the Senate.
The trade federation is basically enforcing an embargo on naboo, such as it seems any sovereign power would have the capacity to do.
Probably under some legal cover of "well they aren't paying us cargo dues" or "they're tarrifs are high" something stupid to placate the overworked pencil pushers in the department of statistics.
In legends lore, it was iirc because of a breach of contract over a big plasma project planned by the trade federation and Amidala's corrupt predecessor, and cancelled by Amidala.
In the 2020 book, "Queen's Peril" by E. K. Johnston, the legality or better yet, the Trade Federation's "legitimized" blockade and invasion is given a closer detailed explanation. I won't go into details myself as I do not want to misquote anything presented in the book as the details are actually quite expansive. I do recommend the book to anyone interested in such details, as well as much more insight into such things as the political makeup of Naboo as well as Naboo's relationship with nearby allied systems and the Galactic Republic as a whole.
@@thibautverron6590 😴
A cargo fell overboard
Honestly I think this battle stands out because it's the FIRST time we actually see two more or less equal sides fight a face to face battle. No walkers, no dark Lord's, no overwhelming fire power. We have a space battle and a ground battle and one influences the other. That was very new in regards to the star wars films and really even the SW media and most times, the EU sucked at actually explaining non space non small scale fights
ok yeah we deserved more of this
Return of the Jedi had space and ground tied together.
If you watch the ep.1 battle, you get to see gungans going hand-to-hand with droids and kicking their asses pretty hard.
I want to see a Phantom extended cut so badly
I think the movie is perfect and want a longer version of all the events ^~^
Hot take: If it weren't for Jar Jar, gungans would be seen as a pretty badass (if a little cheesy) race with unique tech and style.
Yes even with Boss Nass remaining as is.
It probably doesn't help that they aren't very well fleshed out. The movie implies there's some kind of Cold War between the Gungans and Naboo (or at least some kind of racial animosity between their cultures), but it never really shows up in the actual movie beyond a few throwaway lines. Really, "[x] isn't really fleshed out" is a problem you could identify with so many other things in those movies.
boss Nass is very weird but at least he's enjoyably weird
The Gungans could've had much better chances in the ground battle if their infantry had deployed at the inside edge of the shield and engaged the droids in close quarters melee as soon as they entered. The fallen droids would become obstacles for the TF and cover for the Gungans, allowing them to last longer and perhaps even prevail. I also must say I really like the visuals of the battles in this movie. It all looked so real and believable (honestly the explosions were probably practical effects so that's why.)
Also when it comes to Gunray not facing charges, let me ask you a question: do you really think Putin is going to hang for what he's done?
Using the shield as a choke point is a really good idea, great strategic thinking
As for the real life comparison, Putin's fate will depend on Russia's- he's probably safe (compare Saddam Hussein, who _did_ hang)
Gungans would have a much better chance if they wouldn't fight in the open, but rather on marshes - their natural environment.
But the battle had to be out in the open in order to lure the trade federation, so... here we are.
@@SkywalkerWroc The gungans would also have done better if they had bothered to deploy their army in a better position (even something as simple as on top of the hill.) and deploying their calvary effectively and sooner. And their artillery.
@@SkywalkerWroc Part of it was the plan to draw the trade federation forces out to fight them. The commanders might have decided against fighting them in the marshes as being too troublesome. But the gungans coming out to fight them in the plains outside theed plays psychologically to the trade Fed thinking they're primitives who can be easily crushed.
regarding irl events- wasn't nute gunray mowed down by vader on mustafar? the safehouse ain't a safehouse, it's a slaughterhouse a la czar nicolas 2?
Kinda sad that Lucas changed the original concept of Binks from a more Chewbacca like figure to the comedy relief. The Gungans were meant to be proud and competent warriors...which didn't really translate well when their main representative was a klutz with jokes that don't land.
They did salvage them a bit in the Clone Wars. Jar Jar is still a fool, but he's somewhat more effective and the rest of the gungans get good moments, including the part where they outmaneuver and capture General Grievous.
Jar Jar was just acting incompetent as a cover for being a Sith lord.
@@live22morrow Not sure that's much of an improvement when the reason they capture Grievous is Grievous himself was turned into a joke in that show. He was getting humiliated pretty much every week. It's more of a mark against Grievous than a mark in favor of the Gungans.
Now if they'd taken down Grievous from the Tartokovsky version, THAT would have redeemed them as a warrior race.
@@grandadmiralzaarin4962 I don't really think you can look to TCW for improvements to characters; Filoni just isn't a good writer and his best work was dumbing down better stories other people wrote.
Jar Jar has a lot of lines in Episode I that still hint to that; the conversation he has with Padme (the one which ultimately convinces her to return to Naboo) is one of the film's better scenes: Jar Jar is actually serious, has an honest conversation with Padme (and treats her as an equal, which helps to combat the internalized racism Padme and a lot of the Naboo exhibit toward the Gungans), and it sets in motion the film's climax.
I think Jar Jar could've worked better not as a Chewbacca expy, but as a Han Solo expy: someone who's a bit of a n'er do well and extremely self-interested who is still quite capable of getting the job done when he needs to.
Its hard to reconcile the other action scenes with this big battle sequence, but I sort of took the same view in my head that you did. Large scale ground combat was just not really well practiced, so when it game to breaking down the Gungan formation the droids/Trade Federation just didn't have any experience and adopted a pretty linear strategy. Fits in with the technological limitations of the droids at that time. You could even see this battle as the catalyst for the tactical droid development, meant to take the lessons of this and other historic ground combats and adopt them to new battlefield situations to improve the speed and quality of a victory.
The Trade Federation also *aren't* soldiers, and don't really have a martial tradition outside of hiring other people to fight for them. Droids are expendable and the Federation would've approached the problem the same way any other group (say, the Soviets), who didn't really care about their personnel would: throw enough bodies on the fire, and it'll eventually go out.
@@AJadedLizard True. Sort of.
The Soviets were a bit more advanced than just throwing bodies at the enemy. And droids, especially simple, cheap ones are, by design, expendable. Nobody cares about a destroyed battle droid because they’re ridiculously easy and cheap to replace. And they don’t complain, don’t suffer PTSD and don’t have any families or friends who miss them.
@@AJadedLizard The Soviets and "muh human wavez", sure. The Soviets produced more tanks than any other country in WW2. Yet this meme about how they threw infantry at machine guns without support still persists. You should better stick to Star Wars...
@@captainfreedom3649 I don't know why I'm surprised to run into a Soviet apologist here, but here we are. You probably think they could've won the war single-handedly too.
@@4mobius280 That's true to a point, but look at what the Soviets did to their own vets after (and during) the war: most of them ended up in the gulags. They were definitely expendable assets; Stalin was very much the Farquard "Some of you may die but that's a price I'm willing to pay" sort of dictator (to be fair there really isn't any other kind).
The old style battle makes sense. If the galaxy’s been at peace for over a 1000 years battle tactics and training will diminish. The style of battle also seems more to demoralize than be combat effective. This is also before they’re upgrade.
So it’s definitely weird but it makes sense, long time peace with no huge battles. A huge robot/droid security army vs advance indigenous natives.
plus the ruuzhong... ruuzon (Quickly looks up the wookiepedia article i'm on about for spelling) and it's the ruusan reformation strictly prohibited big fleets and heavily gunned warships and freighters until the clone wars said f that we need ships to support our new clone army.
It’s exactly how the first few battles of the First World War was fought, they developed new deadly technology weapons but still fought the old open battlefield tactics in line of troops firing at each other, so it makes sense why the Battle of Naboo was fought the way it was, considering the two factions haven’t experienced war in over thousands of years.
@@patricksleep9787 The line tactic wasn't used in WWI. The dominant tactic was to storm the enemy army befor the could fully organise themself, encircle them and either destroy them entirely or make them give up. The tactic was to be as agressive as possible because the new, precise guns with magazines gave the attacking force an advantage. But with the more precise artillery, mines and machine guns of the beginning 20th century the defending force got a substantial advantage that lead to the huge losses on the western front and later to the trench warfare.
@@Aligartornator13 exactly they didn't fight like they did during the Napoleonic wars. They did use different tactics and strategies. Germany actually came very close to conquering France in WW1 like they did in WW2. The big difference was that France was able to reinforce their divisions that were falling back much faster in the first WW while in the 2nd anything that they could do wrong, they did.
@@Aligartornator13 they did march and deployed in columns though just like during the time of Napoleon.
Squad tactics were not yet common at the start of the war.
If you watch Episode two's behind the scenes content, they talks about how it's been so long since they had an actual war that they forgot how to wage a modern war. Also the Trade Federation is skirting the anti-armament laws. As such their entire army is made on the cheep, their blasters are prone to failure, that's they their droids are ran by a central control ship, also why they are using droids.
To be fair cheap army>no army
The Battle of Naboo is my favorite Prequel battle purely because the droids were treated as serious threats and were intimidating as they should've always been. The scene of the droid army deploying and marching into combat under what I've seen called the Trade Federation March (a short bit of music that's not really part of anything else and isn't credited) is just so good. The Phantom Menace in general is my favorite prequel movie just because it's different. Jar Jar is ungodly annoying and is imo the only real bad part of the movie
As for the battle itself it was a distraction! That's important to remember. The Gungans wanted a fight, they wanted as large of an engagement as possible so they formed up and waited. If you want to draw a large army away QUICKLY you dont commit to a guerilla campaign or anything. You could assault a base far from your actual objective requiring a prompt response but the movie doesn't really show the droid army being anywhere other than the capital, which was what they were luring the army away from. A large direct frontal engagement like what we see honestly makes sense to me given the situation presented in the movie. The presence of tanks also means the gungans have to hunker down under their shields as they have no way to directly attack them. So frontal infantry assault
yess the droids were threatening. worst droid change was giving them silly sounding voices after this movie
@@TatonkaJack I remember even as a kid I thought that was awful, it totally ruined the movie for me.
I imagine the trade federation anticipated that the Gungans would prepare traps for the tanks, which was why they had the more situationally aware and expendable infantry lead.
I love the naboo fight I wish they had another battle here with the clones though that would look awesome visually
There is a water battle with the clones in Star Wars Clone Wars
So much better than the later clone vs robot fights. There was actual thought put into making this fight interesting and not just pure spectical. Sure its all fantasy but I loved that each side had an interesting advantgae. The droids with better guns but the gunguns with better shields. And then they actually had the two sides try to work around this assymetry.
The later battles were just lasers flying everywhere with no clear distinction with what the two sides were doing differently.
The TF was able to gain such a massive army for the same reason the Death Star wasn’t discovered until Jedah was attacked; secrecy and mobility.
The Republic didn’t step in likely because they didn’t want an all out war. I’d assume that’s the same reason they didn’t “hang” the viceroys.
EU answers all this- the Republic was ignoring the Rim's security yet the Core worlds depended on Rim resources for their prosperity. So the TF was allowed to expand its military without direct Republic oversight to ensure the security of trade routes from pirates & goons like the Hutts.
@@rohitpatnaik4831 Yeah, basically, in Legends, the Core wanted its cake and to eat it too - it didn't want to pay for military or security in the Outer Rim, while its economic model depended on the import of cheap resources from said region. This eventually led to corporations, the larger being the Trade Federation conglomerate, needing more and more military assets to guarantee the free flow of resources to the Core due to pirates and warlords rising in the Outer Rim in the power vacuum that happened after the Republic pulled back from it. In fact, the whole reason why the TF blockaded Naboo was related with how the TF paid for a large military that should have been the Republic's in the firs place - after Sith related shenanigans, the Senate passed a taxation reform that removed certain free trade zones, which were established in the first place to help allow the TF to pay for the increasing military that it needed to operate in the Outer Rim.
And this battle was where battle droids became my favorite infantry, with one of the coolest design tanks in Star Wars history.
The description of the Gungan military reminds me greatly of the military of ancient Egypt: they were in charge of law enforcement. However being a militia is more like medieval levies.
I’m getting Prussian cantonment system vibes myself
The Theed military were glorified parade troopers with chromed starships. And the Gungans' Grand Army were a cobbled patchwork of local militias/sheriffs with literal catapults as their heaviest weapon. On Naboo, both sides clearly decided that high walls made for good neighbors - a long, long time ago. With the addition of the Trade Federation we round things out with a group more familiar using their battle droids as a negotiation tactic than anything else.
I bet you the Gungans had some sort of mega harpoon on water mounts for some of those deep sea monsters as well
I assume palpatine arranged for gunray to be released because he still had a part to play in the clone wars. More importantly how does a space blockade starve a planet, its not a city,....its a planet and naboo seems very fertile too, so how does that work???🤔
You do have a point that has always been a weird point for me that the trade federation are only there for at most a week before the Jedi are sent to negotiate if it was Tatooine or another desert planet it would make sense that people would start starving but not Naboo.
My assumption is that Naboo has *something* it needs in order for its economy to function. It's not a colonial power (hell, it has its own colonies in-system) so it's not that they couldn't refine things on-world. It could genuinely be that the Naboo prefer to import foodstuffs and keep their planet's ecosystem intact (i.e., for the aesthetic) which would explain why the planet looks so green and untouched: it is.
@@AJadedLizardI could be slightly off since its been awhile from the books. But many planets relied on the Trade Federation for goods/services. Such as mid to outer rim areas.
IIRC in legends Plageuis was trying to have this binding agreement between King Veruna (Padmes predecessor) and the Federation regarding plasma. Something that would supposebly benefit the Naboo.
I read the canon book Queens Peril. Queen Amidala did reach out to other planets in the Chommel sector trying to secure resources/build relationships either prior or during the blackade I forget.
But there is waaay more going on politically than what the movie shows us. Its complicated and messy.
So it wouldn't be "starving" the planet directly - i.e. not starving them of all food - but preventing them from having the things they need for their planet's civilization to work.
Say you have a very fertile farming region but few or no metal deposits and so no heavy industry. For your farms to work at the level you need them to, you need machinery and fertilizer. You rely on the Trade Federation for these in return for which you sell raw materials (plasma, which the Trade Federation were heavily involved in mining and refining but that's beside the point). The Trade Federation then decides to put an embargo in place and no you can't get the parts or fuel for that machinery and can't get any more fertilizer.
To enforce that embargo you deploy a military force to prevent goods coming in and out and secure key transport hubs, but don't launch a full scale invasion to take control of the entire countryside.
This is actually very similar to a current real world scenario and scenarios that have played out at various times historically.
Yes you can still grow food but if your planet's population has outgrown the planet's ability to provide for them as subsistence farmers then that embargo will quickly cause food shortages. If there are other goods from off-world you rely on for your civilization to function normally, you're SOL there too.
Yes the "starving them out" explanation is really simplistic and poorly explained in the movie, but it does have its real world analogue
I think the blockade was screwing up the economy of naboo which then would have a knock on effect for the many industries which help sustain industrial agriculture.
Pause the movie at the start of the battle, mite the TV, play Yakety Sax, fast forward through the battle. Absolute art.
For Republic Intervention, intervention on their behalf against the invasion would have been hard because at that time, they really didn’t have any standing army that would have had a good quick response to go help.
Definitely- the republic navy was tiny too, by the time all the local governments agreed on a task force it'd be too late. Strange y'know, it is almost as if this entire situation was made to show the benefits of a large standing army...
You are correct that The Phantom Menace does not get enough love. Personally it is my favorite prequel movie.
This battle was a highly ballsy and risky plan but probably the best one that this Jedi, Naboo, and Gungan alliance could muster. I like picking apart this battle because it was a battle of desperation, hard fighting, careful planning, and a lot of luck.
I grew up watching the original trilogy but the prequels were MY Star Wars, I remember being so excited I didn't sleep the night before going to see The Phantom Menace. Always loved the battle of Naboo so this is cool to see a neat deep look at it.
Shout-out to the Gungan campaign from Galactic Battlegrounds.
Really awesome, getting to play as and immerse in more of their culture.
And OOM-9's blitzkrieg campaign.
7:13 there is a line about this in AotC -
Sio Bibble: “It’s outrageous! After four trials in the Supreme Court, Nute Gunray is still the viceroy of the Trade Federation! I feel the Senate is powerless to resolve this crisis.”
Another weird about the Gungan army and its energy shielding: While the shields were up, it would have made a lot more sense to contest the outer edges of the ring to try and stop droids from walking through, rather than waiting in the middle while they just waded through the energy to start blasting. As clearly the droids do get somewhat slowed down by walking through, it would have made the outer edges into a melee brawl. Something where the Gungans would have actually had a pretty alright fight, using some of their spear type weapons to avoid droid melee. Provided they played it smart, and if the shields kept up, piles of deactivated droids would eventually have also made it really difficult for B1's to walk through to try and breach the shield.
The problem is their main weapon is thrown grenades- they could if thrown wrong bounce off the shield and land amongst the ranks. We also don't know how many and how effective the shock spears are. Finally at point blank range the handheld shields might be overwhelmed, or shots could end up ricocheting between the handheld shield and the inside main one.
In the past the Gungans were much more warlike, with various cities fighting each other until Boss Gallo united them when he defeated the warlord Boss Rogoe. They still maintained their martial traditions into the modern era, but haven't been tested in full war for generations.
It also didn't help that the trade federation lied about the blockade and lied about the invasion. Which spurred the really slow reaction to aid the people of Naboo itself.
“You can buy your way out of a little thing line a war crime”
Yeah pretty much that’s how it is IRL
The Phantom menace have great visuals for it's era...
The battle happened because Lucas wanted a large scale battle on a big field after he saw movies in the 90s like Braveheart. What never made sense to me is why the trade federation didn’t invest more heavily in those droideka droids that have the shields. Both Obi-Wan and Qui Gon peaced out as soon as they encountered them. The plan should’ve been to scrap the regular and super battle droids and just build like 100,000 of those things.
Probably because Droidekas cost more..
I personally love that entire battle including every part of it. It was certainly the best and most enjoyable moment of the film for me with the podrace being my second favorite part of the film.
It's annoying how the Gungan technology was basically specialized at taking out large groups and the droids are literally lined up shoulder to shoulder and the Gungans have catapults, but they wait far to long to engage, so they get annihilated. If they used the catapults earlier and fired from within the shield, they would have done better. You even see a big catapult ball roll through a whole line of Droids easily destroying 20 in one motion. If they had done that more, it would have been better because they didn't actually have that many droids.
Unless the catapults like the AAT’s couldn’t fire through the shield. My issue is that none of the Gungans rushed to the edge of the shield to mitigate the droid numbers and thus preventing the small arms from overloading their personal shields. One row at a time would have been manageable. Not an entire battalion.
So gungans just had a minuteman style militia, neat
The idea that evil super rich are allowed to break the law and walk free is very realistic to be fair.
Before TCW had them all just acting like more Jar Jars (despite him specifically being an outcast) gungans in the lore had more in common with mandalorians than with binks himself
I'd love to hear your thoughts on the Ancient Sith and their knowledge, or lack thereof about the Star Forge! Ajunta Pall alludes quite heavily to the treasure of the Ancient Sith from his era to be the Star Forge, but I have yet to see this referenced anywhere else. I don't believe anyone other than the Rakatta, Revan, and Malak had anything to do with the Star Forge, or even had any knowledge whatsoever about its existence, and yet Pall seems to state otherwise and the Star Map is located within Naga Sadow's tomb, which couldn't have been a coincidence.
Continuity error? Plot thread left unresolved? #AskEck
An evil corporation having a massive military all to itself? That’s very realistic. 😂
episode 1 was fun, jar jar was a bit much but who can possibly not give it a big thumbs up for pod racing!
Now this is podracing!
Grant me the same confidence of Jar Jar saying, "Steady, steady..."
The US literally does that to Cuba and it's "legal", that's the most believable part of it all
Thank you!
do you mean, *gasp* Star Wars was woke all along? *pretends to be shocked*
You are so right… this movie doesn’t get enough love or attention. such a great movie
One thing to keep in mind is that because they had been at peace for so long maybe neither side had the experience or the know how to conduct a large scale battle.
I think the reason that the Trade Federation, Nute Gunray, and Rune Haako got away with this was because of the corruption, and lack of solid legislation in the Republic. What the prequels were to George was a critique on how Republics can fail, and what to look out for, and in this case it was the Senates inability (or mostly unwillingness) to try to pass any legislation to change the way the Trade Federation operated, or to help protect/save Naboo. Pretty much "bureaucracy in it's natural state" sort of thing.
Although, ironically it was precisely because they tried to pass legislation to stop this sort of thing that triggered the blockade in the first place
If you play SW Galatic Battle Grounds most Gungan units are biological, and you can use medics to heal themselves and other units. A unique perk, you couldn't do that with ie The Republic. Star Wars is a, 'go right at them' kind of story.
I need to play more of that game. I loved Age of Empires II as a kid and what little I've played of it is fun.
Such a shame we haven't had a new RTS game yet.
@@minicle426 Yes and no. They took what should've been a slamdunk (Star Wars Battlefield made by the devs who *make* Battlefield) and turned it into a hero shooter. With that same track record, they'd make a new Empire at War game and turn it into a MOBA.
The Invasion of Naboo is still a better armed conflict than the First Order-Resistance War.
The Phantom Menace was a really good movie despite its backlash, and the droid vs. gungan battle was really good and still is imo. I'd watch it over the sequels anyday.
Napoleonic era ground battles and WWII era space battles.
And the Gungan are basically employing a militia.
And going by how stuff is a bit old school from our perspective, it isn't too weird that the trade federation have an army. Merchant vessels used to be armed. They are basically acting like the east india company or other corporations who had their private colonies.
Love your videos!
Love your emblem! *For the glory of the Empire* !
The best part is that the battle didn't even matter since all the droids just got shut down anyways.
If the droid army had never been brought to battle, they'd have remained in Theed, and the Naboo guard would have been shot to pieces without ever reaching their ships.
AATs are so fucking cool
Phantom menace was one of my favorite star wars movies growing, even to this day I love looking at all the cool practical effects used in the movie.
🤔 . . . Next topic(s)? How about breaking down the various strategies in Geetsly’s History videos? He already did the history of the Galactic Republic, but is now doing a history on the Sith. Just pick which battles to breakdown & such…
the blockade perfectly legal, the starving on naboo entirely the naboo government's failure and ironically easily preventable with better leadership and queen amidala's plea to the senate was very much a signature palpatine maneuver in his goal to become emperor of the republic and establish his new empire and making the jedi temple into a less... uptight monastery
Legit one of the most beautiful films. Episode 1 was so groundbreaking and I’m glad we are starting to appreciate it
The battle was amazing. It was like James Cameron's avatar battle, but actually good.
Intricate politics and harrowing characters are cool, but we love Star Wars for the world. This battle gave is a look into that world, without insulting our intelligence with a central character to self insert.
I do think it should have been a siege, where the droids were attacking the palace, and the Gungans were holding them off in the fields below the royal castle, and while the main characters did their thing, but it's still an amazing scene, and if you disagree, you're wrong.
#askeck #AskThreepio Why was Jar Jar put in charge of an army, especially one about to go into battle, when, from the point of view from the audience of Phantom Menace, he had no military training at all?
Lore ship Versus video request:
Resurgent vs. Starhawk
Tie Striker vs. New Republic V-Wing
World Devastator vs. Vong Worldship
Tie Silencer vs. X-83 Twintail
Tie Silencer vs. Tie Defender (legends version)
Keldabe vs. ISD II
MC90 vs. Nebula class star destroyer
Nebula class vs. Pellaeon class
Majestic class vs. Bothan Assault Cruiser
EAWX: FOTR’s Mandator II portrayal vs. Subjugator
Praetor vs. Subjugator
EAWX: TR’s Mediator portrayal vs. Resurgent
Starhawk vs. Bulwark MK III
Politics. Stuff like that happened all the time throughout human history and still happens in third-world countries.
They were hoping he'd die a war hero?
@@mjwoodroff8446 I believe this to be the most likely.
Remember that Jar Jar was persona non grata in Boss Nass's eyes. He likely did it as a nasty joke and in the hopes that Jar Jar would finally get killed. Captain Tarpal (the Gungan next to Jar Jar) was likely the competent one meant to ensure someone who actually knew what they were doing was there and actually running the show.
Jar Jar's luck and plot chaos field was with him which is why he survived despite his gross incompetence and became a War Hero.
@@graveyardshift6691 Jar-Jar was also the only one with off-world experience at this point. Also this battle, as a diversion is clearly not going to be a victory, Jar-jar is the fall guy- he sort of deserves it for showing the Naboo the Gunguns secret refuge.
Resonance just fits so well with the vibes of the prequels. It’s just beautiful and I can’t explain why.
It's crazy how well TPM holds up compared to AotC, especially in the special effects department.
It somehow looks mostly as good as it did 24 years ago.
AotC could use a proper remaster.
But it's crazy to think that it got more physical props and miniatures built than any Star Wars movie before it.
Oh my god eck you brought back the corgi outro I love you!
Finally, back to lore instead of bitching about Disney nonstop
Because there's always something new to bitch about Disney
6:30
When talking about what's legal or not in these kinds of situations, you have to remember that even if something is completely illegal, you can still DO IT until somebody shows up to enforce the law. And if you can do your illegal deed AND remove all evidence before law enforcement arrives, then you have rendered the law ineffective.
This is the relevance of the line from Velorum about, "Will you defer your motion to allow a commission to explore the validity of your accusations?"
He's talking about a "Fact-finding expedition", which would be part of that law enforcement process, but also takes lots of time.
Back when Jar Jar was the worst character in all of Star Wars!
Before modern day disney invaded!
Only the OG’s know the fun of mowing them down as as a B1 in the first battlefront game.
The thing is that if you demand logic then the droids should have been using vulture droids to do straffing runs on them as soon as the shields were down, or continued bombardment until the shield fell
the vulture platforms are designed for space combat at the start of naboo because of a refueling issue that quite literally never gets addressed even in the clone wars.
@@xyreniaofcthrayn1195 yes, but they still preformed straffing runs in the clone wars, and because it's just this one battle, you can just land them when they are low on fuel
@@calebbarnhouse496 no you can't not without a lucrehulk or a base very close relatively speaking also vulture droids not the strafing droid your looking for that was a whole other droid type.
@@xyreniaofcthrayn1195 vultures did straffing runs, they weren't super long range, but they did it, they had vulture droids on the surface
It's more like one Napoleonic era army vs one army from the age of antiquity. Shields, slingers, catapults. Aside from the larger 150 meter shields the Romans would have been very familiar with Gungan tactics
Ever notice the perfectly manicured grass, that’s a lot of mowing
Grazers man, take a look at what sheep can do one day.
first
One potentially weird thing (at least not answered in the film) was why the Gungans have an above-surface army. Considering they seem to prefer underwater living but still have land animals transporting and carrying their equipment.
Maybe because they have no natural (sentient) enemies in the water? It would be fun to see this explored more, though. Maybe the underwater version of the shield generators are carried by something akin to whale sharks?
Nothing about this made sense. Why did the droid army even engage them? They were clearly no threat and were seemingly completely of no concern to the TF until that moment. So, a tiny army of frogs with balls is deployed in a random field far away, like many miles away, with weapons that have a range of maybe 100 meters. Leave your fortified position in the city to deploy right in front of them (really really slowly), hoping they don't destroy your deployment vehicles (trapping all your droids inside). Now, engage them and shoot to kill ("wipe them out"), yet take prisoners and don't seem to actually kill anyone. Have no air support, despite having thousands of air ships. To that, why have a ground attack at all? Why not only use some air fighters? Actually, why not just bombard the area from space and turn the Gungan army into a smoking crater? Neither side has any flanking or retreat prevention forces. Neither has a supply line or retreat position, meaning the entire battle better only last a few hours. There are no reinforcements from either side - bring it all and all at once, at the beginning, like a battle written by someone who has the strategic mind of a 5 year old.
Sorry got a bit carried away here.
@@furtim1 Remember that the Trade federation had already found and destroyed the Gungan's city at this point. No doubt that there had been other actions. Trying to hunt down and destroy the Gungans in the tunnels and swamps is a military nightmare, particularly if Naboo resistance starts arming them. Suddenly a golden opportunity lands in your lap as the gungan's illogically gather their warrior bands into a single army. Naturally you are suspicious, what could be their goal? The only reasonable objective is the droid control ship, but how does this action help them achieve that goal? Could the Gungan's have hidden anti-orbital weaponry and are just trying to lure your ship into low orbit to fire? Or is there a hidden fleet of starfighters hidden in the swamp- or perhaps waiting with a hyperspace vector which will drop them suddenly right on top of your ship?
All the options you presented have an element of risk to the only thing that matters, the droid control ship (and purely by coincidenc your own life- you are a Neimoidian after all). Launching a land army is the least risky option.
Note that the tanks are the vanguard- the troop transports only advance after the bombardment fails to break though- and the gungans have not returned fire, indicating that the catapults cannot fire though the shield either. Also note that there is a cut between the droid racks been unfurled and the droids deploying, clearly the droid racks were unfurled, then the carriers moved closer to the shield while the tanks remained in place. The proximity to the Gungan position was probably a tactical error but to be fair that is the exact point the Naboo starfighter started swarming the droid control ship, and it looks like these droids are only activated by explicit command so a delay makes sense.
The Gungans don't have flankers because they are afraid of the tanks charging them if outside the saftey of the shield (which is exactly what they do when the shield goes down), the Trade federation does not try to flank with their tanks at the beginning because it would risk the tanks without infantry support. Remember the trade federation does not want the Gungan's to escape (or lure them) into the swamp. They also do not want to risk having a portion of their army being cut off and overwhelmed (a la Isandlwana) hence why they do not go in en echelon (i.e reinforcements), for the trade federation the tanks ARE the reserve. For the Gungans they want to present the maximum threat, which is why the entire army is out in the open, but note that they back on to a swamp- in the Trade Federations eyes that swamp could be filled with another army of equal size just waiting for the trade federation to commit, with this they can create the threat of a reserve without actually having one.
The trade federations attack seems to drive the gungan army uphill and to the left, but we don't get an overview to see if this is by design or by chance. Certainly the destroyer droids seem to arrive at the perfect time to counter the Gungan cavalry charge and right after the B1's had absorbed all the Gungan fire. Most of the Gungan casualty would presumably be on the original battlefield and during the initial retreat, doubtless the droids are programmed to remove the injured and dead rapidly, being mostly designed for riot work. Hence why we do not see many Gungan dead in the area around Jar-Jar at the end.
As for the droids taking prisoners, tell me, if you were programming security droids for sale to private companies, would you program them to default to executing prisoners in anything other than utterly explicit in person instructions? Language is a fiddly thing last thing you want is your security droids misunderstanding you when you say your trades are going to make you a killing.
@@benlewis4241 I think you have laid out statements that contradict the movie (the orders were "wipe them out") and deny any sense of realism for this movie. There is no reason why they couldn't bombard the area from space. There is no reason they couldn't attack it by air. There is no reason they need attack it at all (you claim they were worried about them having some secret weapon...well, do they send any recon to check? Do they show any sense of urgency when they send super slow hovercraft to fire some blasters at it for 3 seconds after what was probably a one day journey). The battle is just plain silly, by any measure. I appreciate all the strange mind contortions you try to present to justify the absurdness of it. This was all folly.
@@benlewis4241 "Trade federation had already found and destroyed the Gungan's city at this point." I don't remember that at all. Why did they do that? What do the Gungans have to do with coercing their "enemy" to sign a treaty? Were they going to get the Gungans to sign a treaty too? Why? What was the point of the first treaty? The movie never even explains WHY the TF is even trying to get the treaty signed. What will it do? What are the stakes? Why would it be enforceable? If they are trying to compel or genocide the people there, why not just do that and not bother with a "treaty" you force a captive to sign? The movie is just not thought through at all.
Star Wars is a great fantasy reflection of humanity on Earth. We love strange battles and we have corruption beyond comprehension that often gets overlooked.
"How is it legal to starve out a planet because you have the monopoly on trade?"
Nestle: *innocent whistle *
"So what's your superpower?"
Trade Federation: "I'm rich."
Gungun technology is insanely advanced. They have submarines that can withstand the pressure of the center of a planet without any problems, & continue working after the outer hull has a hole ripped into it, also protecting the occupants from any need for decompression stops even with a hole in the hull.
That’s infinitely more difficult than making a spaceship which just has to keep 1 bar of atmosphere inside.
The large deflector shield also makes sense in this battle, as it could still protect itself from droid fighters and mainly bomb them.
"You ever stop to think about how weird the Gungan-" Yep. You could stop right there. As a 14 year old who watched the OT weekly, that theatre experience in 1999 was a unique one. I liked the podracing but the rest was just... so weird.
Concerning that bit about the blockade and legality thing at the end, I sorta figured/thought that even the blockade itself was a technical breach of law, but the Republic just couldn't really do anything about it. The Republic had pretty much no major standing military, and the Trade Federation itself was such a large, influential megacorporation that the Republic leadership couldn't act against it, while the Senate was too divided over the issue. The Federation probably figured that an outright invasion might be too far for the Senate, and that would be enough to turn a lot of the Republic against them or at least stop being apathetic fence sitters, but the blockade was probably just considered to be a relatively unimportant issue for most of the galaxy.
Just meant to be a sort of example of how out-of-control things have gotten in the Republic, that a megacorporation could do something like that
A real "yeah, you and what army?" situation going on. The Republic really only had peacekeeping forces, so to go up against a very wealthy and influential corporation (with its own army) would not be the first course of action. That weakness and waffling is ultimately what killed the Republic.
You had Palpatine pulling strings to make sure the Trade Federation didn’t suffer any consequences.
"It's outrageous! After four trials in the Supreme Court, Nute Gunray is still the viceroy of the Trade Federation."
- Sio Bibble in Attack of the Clones
They certainly say diversion alot in the whole sequence in general
iirc, there was actually a one-off line in AOTC where Padme was lamenting the fact that Gunray got off scot-free in spite of his crimes because of how much influence the Trade Federation has over the Republic's courts. So like you said Eck, it's a showcase of how corrupt the Republic had become by this point in history that he was able to just buy his way out of the war crimes.
Panaka: "I think you can kiss your trade franchise goodbye"
Trade franchise: *Doesn't get kissed goodbye
nice video! never understood the droid battle fight or where the Jedi's fought Darth Maul until you made this video!
All this was way over my head. I ponder simple things like: why are the droid tanks recoiling from firing lasers?
It doesn't strike me as odd really. As you said the Gungan army was a glorified police force, they probably had no super sophisticated tactics. And the Droids lacked a proper leader, the Neimodians probably just sent them there with the order to wipe out the Gungang army. And simple as they were, they didn't come up with some grand plan to do that, but did it in the most basic way. When you look at how bad B1s were in doing about anything slightly more complicated than walking and shooting, and they didn't exactly excel at that either, during the Clone Wars and then you consider the Clone Wars B1s were actually slightly improved variants compared to EP1, you can imagine what those were capable of. Their formation simply comes from them being unpacked that way. And the Droids just started marching towards their assigned target like that, they never deliberately formed it and simple as they were, they didn't consider breaking it either.
If you look though the tanks are held back until the shield goes down, and the destroyer droids turn up exactly when the Gungun army charges. Note that the Gunguns are driven into the grassy hills rather than the swamp, implying that their flank was turned. And watch how the moment the shield goes down the tanks go in for a coordinated charge, with some battle droids mounting the tanks. Look how the droids carefully took their casualties with them, and persuaded most of the army to surrender without further fighting.
The first time we see them, they live in an advanced underwater city. I don’t think for a moment that anyone thought they were uncivilized.
Extended pause? Fine, you've earned your interaction.
The battle of Naboo is considered odd even by Sidious leading up to it. He is perplexed by Amidala returning to Naboo and has no idea what her plan is and talks about how unexpected it is to have the Gungan army just show up.
As you yourself said, they knew they were being drawn out and devoted their arial advantage to protecting the control ships, which they were using to great effect against the Naboo pilots, whom were basically doing nothing and were sitting ducks. Anakin, a kid, knew that the autopilot was going to get them killed because he couldn't maneuver or do anything to deal with the droids and the other pilots were all focused on trying to penetrate the shields.
The whole battle itself feels like what a first battle after 1000 years of peace would look like. The only real conflict would likely be gang wars or the Hutts in the Outer Rim and none of these groups would want to fight the core worlds or draw the ire of the Republic, which in turn was mired with bureaucracy and corruption.
It seems like the droids weren't programmed for advanced tactics and the gungans had never fought in a large scale battle before, something that also was VERY apparent in the earlier battles of the Clone Wars. No one knew how to wage war effectively because they never had to.
So we get big rows of infantry lines, shields and artillery. Advanced tactics, ambushes, using the terrain to your advantage and so on probably wasn't even being considered by any group.
One strategy I think the Federation absolutely could NOT use was orbital bombardment though. They wanted to monopolize (more than they already had) trade and a slice of the plasma market. It's likely that orbital bombardment could have had such political repercussions that there was no way to overcome that and would 100% not be salvaged, so with their arial support focused on the control ships then that meant ground forces were what were needed to deal with the gungans.
The thing is I don't think there is anything the Gungans could actually have done to draw them out had the Federation actually been able to think like strategists with the mindset for war. The gungans gathered a very large force and went out into the plains hoping to draw them out. Had the Federation simply not sent any forces then the gungans and Amidala would lose by default. Their supply lines are strong and are not being threatened, they have control of the capital and the spaceport, and they have a superior air force compared to the Nabooans protecting the control ships.
And this, I think, shows the mindset of a millenia of peace. No one knew how to wage war or think strategically.
A quarter of a century after the movie's release, and we can still find new ways to roast it. George really deserves a prize for that.
Every time I see the Naboo battlefield , all I can think is how much it looks like the Windows hill background
Lucas: "we've never seen a battle of this scale in cinema before"
If you play Galactic Battlegrounds they make more sense out of it. The end battle on the plains is just one part of it.
It was my understanding that the reason why there was no Republic military presence during the blockade of Naboo was that the Trade Federation had gaslighted the Senate into thinking that Naboo's claims of an actual military invasion were either exaggerated or completely fabricated, and then bogged the Senate down in so much bureaucracy that they were unable to properly investigate the claims. You'd think the testimony of two Jedi would carry more weight on the matter but apparently not.
Legal blockades are a thing IRL too. See strikes and lock-outs for example. The blockade might have been some sort of legally protected "corporate action"(as opposed to industrial action).