I believe that magic realism is a mostly Latin American subgenre where magic is mostly seen as normal and some normal things are seen as magical. In the most famous Magical Realism book (100 years of solitude) the book begins with the main characters father showing the main character Ice. There is also a moment where it rains flowers and it is seen as normal.
Exactly. Usually it is described as a realistic settinf with fantastical elements. As a South American when he mentioned magical realism and described it how he did it low key triggered me lol.
Exactly, magical realism is Sanderson's antithesis. It is where the fanciful aspect is shown as the everyday and the ordinary as wonderful. Where to see ice for the first time is magical, but walking through the air, returning from the dead, is everyday things, without "rules".
I think that maybe it is both a sub-genre of fantasy (Magic realism Fantasy) and a different genre (just Magical realism). Either way, I always thought of it as more of a style of the author, though it has been a while since I had a class about it (Im also latinoamerican )
@@franciscopoblete5854 Not really, Daniel confused magic realism with hard fantasy. Hard fantasy creates its "magic systems" and world with a great focus on logic and clear rules. Magical realism is just that, the Latin American fantasy current of using fantasy as an allegory to abstract emotions, feelings or concepts without any type of rule or limitation . And no, it's not just a style, but it's subgenre. (If a character is in love, he will walk through the air or vomit live or dead butterflies ... This without any reason or explanation beyond the allegory to the image of the "butterflies in the stomach")
1:52 Alternative history 2:18 Arthurian Fantasy 3:00 Assassin Fantasy 3:30 Christian Fantasy 4:06: Comic/Absurdist Fantasy 5:05 Coming of Age Fantasy 6:01 Court Intrigue Fantasy 7:02 Dark Fantasy 7:42 Dragon Fantasy 8:02 Epic/High Fantasy 10:16 Erotic Fantasy 10:40 Fable/Fairy Tale Fantasy 11:13 Gaslamp Fantasy 12:10 Grimdark Fantasy 13:18 Gunpower/Flintlock Fantasy 14:10 Heroic Fantasy 14:27 Low Fantasy 14:49 Magic Realism Fantasy 14:57 Medieval Fantasy 15:03 Military Fantasy 15:08 Paranormal Fantasy 15:17 Quest Fantasy 15:39 Portal Fantasy 15:48 Romantic Fantasy 15:54 Science Fantasy 16:05 Series Fantasy 16:11 Steam Punk Fantasy 16:32 Superhero Fantasy 16:43 Swashbuckling Fantasy 17:22 Urban/Modern Fantasy 17:56 Vampire Fantasy 18:14 YA Fantasy
I love how discworld literally helped people come to terms with death. Viewed it less as something scary and more as an inevitable comfort. Fans with terminal illnesses genuinely sent letters to the author explaining how his depiction of death made them less scared, how they hoped he was as kind.
If anyone is looking for a unique urban fantasy, Russian author Lukyanenko can be an interesting option. Most of the books in his World of Watches series are available in English.
Magic realism is s genre that adds magic or fantastical elements to a realistic setting and usually deals with exploring the culture of a society. It was really popular in Latin America in the 20th century and it's most known authors are Latin American like García Márquez, Jorge Luis Borges, Isabel Allende, etc. Great video btw.
The "this sub-genre is better than that one" comes when some people forget that what they like isn't an objective truth What they should be saying is "this sub-genre fits my tastes better than that one" and a lot of the unnecessary conflicts would not come up
I really don't think you should have to be that conscious of your word choice. Obviously when I say "this is better", I'm voicing myself and myself only.
I often voice my opinions by using statements such as: This thing is better than that thing or That would never happen, etc Obviously those are an opinion and a prediction, respectively. When it comes to discussions involving subjective preferences, theories or predictions I’m not going to continually explain that my opinions are opinions. That should be self explanatory...
it's sad that it has to come to this. We're just here cause we like reading books and we got all this debate club shit going on. I understand we talk about our hobbies with other people who like them as well, but I dont understand why people want to constantly discuss everything all the time like this. Its just sub genres guys.
@@RalphNC09 Now, it also comes down to the circumstances. I admit, I may've been too extreme with my wording there. Usually saying things like Pieter-Ben Smit mentioned: this is better/that'd never happen, are totally fine. Though sutuations like ones mentioned in the video - trashing other sub-genres (or books for that matter) just because someone likes them better than others - that is what I wanted to criticise
You can easily categorize it many different ways without being wrong. The most appropriate, I believe, is Space Opera: "Space opera is a subgenre of science fiction that emphasizes space warfare, melodramatic adventure, interplanetary battles, chivalric romance, and risk-taking."
Daniel, magical realism is Sanderson's antithesis. It is where fantasy has no rules beyond serving as allegory. Where the fantasy is part of the ordinary to the point of being ignored. Example; One Hundred Years of Solitude. The "guilt" of a character for being indirectly responsible for the death of an enemy, is shown in the narrative as a ghost that simply inhabits his old house, where a character returns from his death just because he considered it boring. Where the knowledge of the death of a son reaches the mother when the blood of this son travels from a house through the streets, crossing an entire town only to reach her feet. Anyway, it is magic without rules that only follows a figure similar to fables, that is, fantasy is used to explain everyday or cultural things (Human guilt, love, fear of death or rejection of the idea of this, mother's instinct). And I say that it is Sanderson's antithesis, because in fact it is common in this kind of story that when there is a character who tries to "learn" magic, he is condemned to live in the ordinary.
My problem with this statement and others I have seen (including what's in the video) is that no clear consensus seems to exist. Much like 'Mary Sue' and virtually anything on TVTropes, the definition of any of these terms is dependent on who is talking. Those who move within the same circles as Daniel will likely use the term the same way or similarly to how he does, while those with whom you converse regularly on the topic will use a similar definition to yours. I consider the label and most others to be next to meaningless because of this. That said, your definition is reasonable given certain ways of viewing the term 'realism', ways which you clearly feel apply. Your opinion on what the term should mean is just as valid as anyone else's. I simply wish to suggest that your definition, and Daniel's definition for that matter, is not THE definition.
I’d also put “Holes” by Louis Satcher into the magical realism genre. Story has curses and events too contrived to be coincidental as just a part of the world; it’s accepted as fact that Stanley’s family has bad luck because his pig-stealing, no-good great great grandfather didn’t fulfill his promise to a witch, and Greenlake dries up after the death of Sam, only raining again when the granddaughter of his murderer faces justice.
For alternative history, and I guess also dragon fantasy, I cannot recommend the Temeraire series enough. It's a reimagining of the Napoleonic wars, with the addition of an air force of dragons. I'm obsessed.
It's probably because of critical role but i like it when a main character has a flintlock, but i prefer the world not to have guns because i guess i prefer pre-gun combat for armies & worlds
So I know this comment is a year old, but the whole "the middle ages didn't have guns" belief is a massive misconception. They absolutely had guns back in the middle ages, but not what we think of as guns now days. They had small portable hand cannons which then evolved into very early musket guns and so on. There's a really great video by Shadiversity on guns in the middle ages which also talks about the armour knights would wear in an attempt to protect themselves from these guns. Iirc they were mostly used in sieges though. Like yeah pre-gun combat is super interesting, but I think it'd also be interesting to see a fantasy setting in this time that also had these early guns that wasn't a pirate fantasy story.
@@GiveMeYourEyes947 Pre-Arquebus handguns didn't have a very important role on the battlefield. Until the Renaissance, you're mostly going to see primitive cannons in sieges called bombards, which were popularized in the 14th century. I guess a dirty tube of iron firing at a castle for days on end isn't romantic enough for most fantasy settings.
@@GiveMeYourEyes947 there is also a very interesting period where medieval combat war transitioning into line combat. This is the period with the pike and shot formations and mounted pistoleers clad in full plate.
Would be cool if you did a video focused on the Asia sphere fantasy genre. Things like Transmigration, reincarnation, Isekai varieties and cultivation.
Magical Realism is an entirely different thing than what you described. Look Gabriel Garcia Marquez, Haruki Murakami, Sulman Rushdie etc. It has nothing to do with Mistborn.
Correct. Magical realism is basically normal human beings in our normal world with slight paranormal things going on. For example maybe a person can see into the future or has an unnatural abilities. For example - The Curious Case of Benjamin Button. I'll give some movies as examples too- The green mile, The age of adaline, Penelope. These are magical realism.
@@christopherbacon1077 best example... I don't think so. Best example is certainly 100 years of solitude. But I didn't know there was a book and as I like the movie I will look for it.
The Outlander series could be a good recommendation for erotic fantasy. It's more Romance than Erotic, and it's also Time Travel, Historic, and quite other genres.
Best Comment Ever. Lets not pressure Rothfuss into creating something similar of GoT ending season. Retirement age is appropriate deadline. Or.. deathline, I guess..
Some recommendations: Erotic fantasy: Kushiel’s Dart series Portal Fantasy: Mordant’s Need Fantasy Military Fantasy: Warcraft, Starcraft series Dark Fantasy: The Talisman by Stephen King & Peter Straub, a (previously) one-off novel that blew my mind. Dragon fantasy or alternate history fantasy: The Temeraire series (a reimagining of the Napoleonic wars - with dragons).
Have you tried any Indian fantasy books? Would love if you check them out. Popular names that come up are Amish Tripati, Samit Basu, Indra Das. If you want to start by something small, read Indra Das' Breaking Water. It has a subversive take on zoombies. I think you will love it.
Epic/High/Urban Fantasy, but there are so many that are so good. though truth be told, i always thought High Fantasy was a story that used alot magic and artifacts in the series.
Young Adult fantasy: Antoine de Saint-Exupéry - The Little Prince Man... that story always drives me to cry. It's stated to be a children book or not even a book just a tale, but in my childhood I didn't get it as much as I'm an adult now.
Well, techinally (2), LOTR isn't Epic Fantasy because Middle Earth is actually canonically Earth but some 10,000 in the past. Do I get to be the nitpickiest nerd?
You know i heard once, in an interview i could probably never find again that Tolkin once said that LOTR did take place on earth. but he would never say were.
@@Maskawanian the Bible is backed up with archaeology and is a religious treatise. Including letters to people from historical figures. Whether you believe in it or not, most of it is not fantasy just as you wouldn't say the Dead Sea Scrolls or Quran, Bhagavad Gita or Ramayana are fantasy. They're religious texts. And yes Alice is absurdist at least as defined by Kierkegaard, but not as defined by Camus. Sadly Discworld is not absurdist by either Kierkegaard's or Camus's definitions though it certainly has absurdist elements, particularly the Nights Watch novels. He is however a brilliant satirist. Is satirical fantasy a thing???
@@deisophiagaming8216 Dude, out of hundreds of Bible stories, pretty much only two of those have ANY credibility whatsoever. The Assyrian and Babylonian exile - that's pretty much it. All others have absolutely not a single archaeological evidence for them. And no there are no letters to prove anything as the earliest written connections to those stories were written hundreds of year after the so-told story. As long as those religious texts are consisting of fantasies, one definition isn't replacing the other.
@@vladi1Z love the way all of you ignore the Bhagavad Gita, Qu'ran and other religious texts... So limited. But that said there is extensive archaeological evidence as well as written Roman records for the Bible Torah and Qu'ran. Sites like Nineveh, Shivta, Caves at Qumran, Masada, Tel Meggido, Tel Hazor, Petra, El-Araj and so so many more. there are of course hoaxes like the Shroud of Turin, as well as the very questionable validity of numerous relics found within churches spread across Europe. Try as you might many biblical accounts are corroborated by various inscriptions on monuments such as the Jehoash inscriptions, Greek books by Herodotus and Thucydides, various Stele from both Assyrian and Babylonian ruins. (Sadly much if which has been ruined with the many many attacks on Iraq and Iran, some of which is at least preserved by places like the London Museum). By the way it's fine not to believe in a religion but to ignore evidence that does speak to historical facts is wilfully blind and ignorant. So texts like the Bible are not simply fantasy there are corroborated historical facts, associated with them hence they are religious texts a separate genre.
@@gabbyb9418 WH40k is what would happen if Star Wars, Dune, Silmarillion, C’thullu mythos, Bible and Alice in Wonderland had a testostherone and cocaine-induced orgy and created a monster of a child who had a very bad upbringing
Magical Realism is when a story has subdued fantastical elements that may or may not have a logical explanation. They are almost always set in the real world or something like it. It's basically regular fiction where the characters encounter something that seems magical and it is left unresolved, or could be passed off as hallucinations or something. Mistborn definitely isn't Magical Realism. Low Fantasy is similar. It's a story set in an obviously fantastical world but the magical elements are subdued. Magic is usually vague and rare, and generally appears mundane, with few magical creatures. The story might become more High fantasy as it gets to the midway point or beyond, but the setting is predominately just an alternate world. KJ Parker is an extreme example of this as his books sometimes have zero magic at all, but Robin Hobb is probably a more normal recommendation. Harry Potter definitely is not Low Fantasy. High Fantasy, therefore, is just where magic and magical creatures etc are clear as day and definitely real. Epic Fantasy is more about scope and scale, just like any "epic" story. A Song of Ice and Fire could be considered Epic Low Fantasy. Heroic fantasy I think refers more to Sword and Sorcery unless I'm mistaken; Conan is probably what is meant by that.
I don't think I really agree with treating High and Epic Fantasy as the same thing, nor do I think they are mutually exclusive. I believe Epic Fantasy refers to the scale of the world created/presented in the story. While it is true most epic fantasy takes place in a secondary world, I would argue this is because when a secondary world is created, more work has often been done to increase the scope/scale of things. It is conceivable that a story can take place in a secondary world but fail to have the scope to be epic (e.g. _Tower of Fear_ by Glen Cook), and the reverse is also possible, though less likely (e.g. the works of Homer may qualify). High Fantasy on the other hand refers to the prevalence of fantastical elements (magic etc.) within a world/story, this can be viewed in contrast to Low Fantasy* where the fantastical elements are more sedated. High and Low Fantasy is probably best viewed as a continuum with some stories being identifiable as falling more inline with one end of the spectrum over another. For example, _Stormlight Archive_ is higher fantasy than _ASoIaF._ Thus we oft simplify (at the expense of accuracy) by saying _Stormlight Archive_ is High Fantasy while _ASoIaF_ is Low Fantasy, even though _ASoIaF_ may be higher than other world/stories. Again, under these definitions the terms are not mutually exclusive. Both _Stormlight_ and _ASoIaF_ are Epic Fantasy, but one is Higher Fantasy than the other. * Necessarily I disagree with describing Low Fantasy as taking place in the primary world. Obviously any term can be used anyway a person wants to use it, but I am making the argument that the above stated use of the terms has the most utility and makes the most sense given the underlying words.
The message of this video holds true...genre doesn't matter. One of my favorite book series growing up was The Infernal Devices. In itself it can qualify to fit in, steampunk fantasy, vampire fantasy, dark fantasy, YA fantasy, gaslamp fantasy, fable fantasy, low fantasy, and many others I can't even remember. Most stories in general cross genre in some way, and in fantasy thats often brought to an insane level as people can take influences from thousands of sources, some even unconciously.
trying to find a subgenre for lord of Mysteries, you have mc Playing a detective in a victorian london like City, using a pistol as weapon while having seers power but you also get fights between gods and angels that shake the world and lovecraftian horror with outer gods. you also have elves, giants, dragons and other Mythical beings. but also steampunk. you also get evil Organisations causing mass murder to summon their evil god and mc is transmigrated from modern earth you also get like 2000 pages that play on the high sea with pirates and pirate ships. one of the main side Characters is a vampire
For Military fantasy, I enjoyed Glen Cook's "The Black Company" (also fits into Grim Dark, and Epic/High fantasy). And for Erotic and Romance fantasy, I'd really recommend JR Ward's "Black Dagger Brotherhood" (also fits into Vampire, Paranormal, Assassin, Low, and Urban fantasy).
The best way to describe genres and subgenres is this. (Sub)Genres are to stories as # tags are to instagram posts. Overlap is garenteed, improperly placed labels are more prevalent than not.
I would say that the best dragon fantasy is Anne McCaffrey, hands down. I still haven’t finished the series, but the first several novels are brilliant and imaginative.
Coming from a Tabletop world. High fantasy and Epic fantasy are not synonyms. High fantasy is "high" in the amount of magic in the world. The opposit is Low fantasy, with "low" amounts of magic. Epic fantasy is referring to the scale of the work. It will cover a fast swath of places and people. You will often find lots of characters and viewpoints. Also, large amounts of history and world-building are usually involved. A Song of Ice and Fire is a great example of Epic fantasy but Low fantasy. Does anyone else see things like this?
Recommendation for good vampire fantasy is The Utterly Uninteresting and Uneventful Tales of Fred the Vampire Accountant (and all of the books after that) as it is also one of the best series I have ever read. It is super transformative of any idea that I had of vampires and vampire fantasy. No spoiler summary: Nerd accountant (specifically he helps others with taxes) gets turned. With newfound powers of concentration does more taxes and helps propel his accounting service.
Im judging by the cover here, but if the book is actual called "kushiel's dart" being erotic fantasy, I'd buy if just for the title. But, it it's written by Kushiel. And the book is called 'Dart' it would not make me snicker so much..
Kushiel's Dart -series, actually quite good besides the erotic scenes. Sex is central to the plot but it's not on every page. Laurel K. Hamilton's books. The Fae Chronicles series by Amelia Hutchins (very much erotica this, BJ's galore). It's not that hard, boys & girls - pun intended.
Recommendation for erotic fantasy: the claiming of sleeping beauty by Anne Rice. You never look at the fairytale of sleeping beauty the same ever again after that.
flintlock fantasy is a genre i am about to try to get into with the powdermage trilogy because of your recommendation through a couple of videos. thank you sir!
Magical realism is basically normal human beings in our normal world with slight unexplained paranormal things going on. For example maybe a person can see into the future or has an unnatural abilitiy. For example - The Curious Case of Benjamin Button. I'll give some movies as examples too- The green mile, The age of adaline, Penelope. These are magical realism.
Hmm, very interesting! My personal differentiation for epic vs high, is more like the dragon fantasy idea. High fantasy is the traditional elves, dwarves, orcs, humans etc. Obviously LOTR fits here. Epic fantasy is more about scope/size than setting. For example, obviously stormlight archive and probably mistborn go here, but I wouldn't put elantris or worldbreaker, even though they're the same style from the same author, even the same universe. Clearly there are many books that would fit into both, like the aforementioned LOTR, and probably the legend of drizzt books. But to me they are describing different aspects of the story. High is setting, and epic is scope. Just my thoughts, thanks for the video!
Major props and respect for respecting peoples religion in this video and saying what you felt and how it annoyed you, I gained major respect for you for that. You truly want to treat everything fair even if you don't agree with it, and you're here to review books, not push an agenda. Major MAJOR respect for you. Subbed, love your vids.
Hi Daniel, really enjoying your videos, keep up the good work! I do have to point out that I think you got magic realism wrong. Magic realism is more the use of fantasy and supernatural elements in a real world setting that’s not explicitly explained as magic and is just accepted as part of the narrative. The fantasy element is usually used as a metaphor to enhance the themes of the story. Or at least that’s my understanding of it, it’s a hard genre to explain and make sense of. I really enjoyed Bone Gap by Laura Ruby as an example of magic realism. Mistborn is definitely not magic realism though.
Thank you for this informative and entertaining video! I especially appreciate that you included recommendations. My soul is so happy that Discworld got a mention and that you went past book 1. If you love Death, please please please go on to book 4. "Get off your high fantasy horse" Brilliant!
Great Video, and very fun to watch! I would never even think to describe Sanderson as magical realism though. If anything I would think of magical realism as a subgenre of low-fantasy, where the book is barely distinguishable from literary fiction except there are magical elements which are not treated as spectacular elements to a story, leaning more towards surrealism than traditional fantasy. When I think of magical realism the first books that come to mind are 100 years of solitude or Like Water for Chocolate, which are appropriate since both are by Latin American authors which is where the genre was spearheaded. This is not a criticism btw, just my interpretation of the genre. Keep up the good work, look forward to your videos every day!
Magical realism tends to attract a lot of gatekeeping-type comments, like that you were afraid of with high fantasy. It's a more "literary" genre, sometimes thought to be literary-types trying to worm their way out of having liked a fantasy book (Pratchett said this, for example). Gene Wolfe called it "fantasy written by people who speak Spanish". It's usually associated with Latin America. There's often a political element to it and the magic "system" is usually barely explained at all, often because it's based in folklore and/or the audience is presumed to be already familiar with it. Also, the fantasy element in magical realism is usually pretty low-key. It is basically never set in a secondary world, so I don't think Mistborn would qualify. The classic example is One Hundred Years of Solitude, or just about anything by Gabriel Garcia Marquez.
I know it's not really your wheelhouse Daniel, but for Dark Fantasy I cannot recommend anything higher than Berserk. Yes it is a manga series, so that will be a turn off for many people. However, if people can get past that, it's basically the embodiment of what I feel the genre thrives on. A dark setting with characters who struggle against the very nature of their world. It is to this day, the base for all western-medieval fantasy in Japan.
I'd say berserk is grim dark for sure. And it is the greatest story ever told imo. But Murias art is berserk is the definition of a picture is worth a thousand words.
Slayereyez I’ve always been of the opinion that the exchange rate between pictures and words fluctuates depending on the words and pictures in question. By this logic, Shrek 3 is worth more than any piece of written literature
@@disorientedkiwi7984 lol surely you can't compare an animated film like shrek to berserk its borderline blasphemous. If u have not already, step out of your comfort zone and read Berserk and Vagabond. I can almost guarantee if your posting here you will be glad you did. Most art looks small and unsubstantial when compared the likes of kintaro muria and ,Takehiko Inoue
I thought I'd never heard of Malazan and thought, "Well, why don't I give it a try." Then I saw in Audible 'in your library'. I was like, "Wow, a 26 hour book I never listened to?" Then I clicked on the title and it started playing 7 hours in...oh yeah. I gave up on this one. But maybe it has a payoff and I should restart and forge ahead?
Ayy Daniel, thanks for the shout-out! No one's ever called my name badass before, but I'll wear the title proudly. :-) Looking forward to more great content from ya, and supporting you through it all the way. Peace! Edit: Also, you pronounced my name perfectly! Pretty rare for people to do, in addiiton, so count yourself among the gifted few.
I can say this: I agree a lot of what you're saying and disagree just as much. I will say that it's worth mentioning that Epic Fantasy and High Fantasy aren't synonyms. Not all Epic Fantasy are High Fantasy and vice versa. I can have Sword & Sorcery story set within a High Fantasy backdrop. But Epic Fantasy and Sword & Sorcery are complete opposites when it comes to narrative structures. Of what I understand is that Epic Fantasy's most prevelant and defining feature is that the story is about almost solely on world-changing events, in an almost sub-cosmic level. Tolkien and his Mythopeic Format is(of what I understand), if not the genesis, the very kickstart of the whole Epic Fantasy genre. That just one thing of many I disagree with, that High and Epic Fantasy are synonymous. But that's my sole analysis of almost two decades of reading fantasy and discussed with authors both in litrary form and tabletop gaming. Still; I think you having good points in the genre; in this video particularly about the ludicrous amount subgenres(which aren't any subgenres in my humble opinion) and I like your channel. Keep it up! 👍
idk about the actual definition of magical realism, but how people and authors use it is to describe books set in our world and time with mystical/unexplained/whimsical magic brandon sanderson is actually the furthest thing from magical realism
The Elric Saga by Michael Moorcock is a great example of heroic fantasy. He inspired Geralt from the Witcher to some extent and is behind some of the trends in grimdark. He's agnsty as hell though so watch out for that.
Another fun subgenre is “animal fantasy”, with the most successful most likely being Redwall. :) The Mouse Guard graphic novel series is also *legit*. It doesn’t have to be medieval, though, such as Watership Down or the “Warriors” books by Erin Hunter.
I see your examples and raise you Tailchaser's Song, sir! Also, I loved Redwall, but I have a hard time thinking it was ever more popular than Watership Down...
Hand -of-Omega - I have just read ‘Hollow Kingdom’ by Kira Jane Buxton. In it humans have turned into zombies and the story is told by a pet crow S. T. (Shit Turd). He decides that he has to try and save all the domestic pets trapped in houses aided by a dog named Dennis. It also gives quite a few other species’ opinions on what is going on.
I always figured that 'low fantasy' just meant that the magic is very subtle or off to the side as opposed to a major part of the setting like in epic fantasy and not necessarily taking place on Earth.
Aye what if I make my own setting but it's basically almost entirely like this world, just geographically different with made up names and follows all the same rules and laws of physics we do, but it only has the smallest hint of magic here and there that isn't even necessarily relevant to the plot about he farmers week on his farm? Then is it not "low" fantasy due to the low amount of fantasy elements while still not being set on this earth? And what if I take a setting like the Abe Lincoln Vamp hunter example he used, a real historical place and time, but I amp up the fantasy settings to 11? Make the places and amount of people bigger in scale, add huge amounts of magic and detailed magic systems, add fantasy races like elves and dwarves with their own extensively detailed history and cultures, add magical fantasy beasts like dragons and such, make the fantasy elements integral to be plot, then is it not "high" fantasy because of the high amounts of fantasy elements involved while still being a real historical or real world setting? I guess it depends on what the majority of people feel the definition should be though. I'd also seperate epic from high personally. If I add all those massive world details through exposition but the story itself is a novella contained and focused on say a single character not moving much through a small space in a short time then it's not really epic through what we see happening within the book, but if you have a giant page count showing multiple points of view from across a massive map space that the characters are constantly moving across with the book also showing large armies covering ground and fighting massive battles and defending giant cities against extremely powerful forces that could rule the whole world then the actual happenings of the book are very epic in that sense
For dragon fantasy I recommend checking out Melanie Rawn’s dragon prince and dragon star trilogies, as well as Anne McAffrey’s dragonriders of Pern books.
The recent trend with Arthurian Legend is to try to go historical rather than fantastical. One of my all time favorite historical takes is the Arthurian Aksumite cycle. First book takes place in Britain, and all the rest take place in Aksum and the area around the Red Sea. It's very cool, and nicely showcases how interconnected the Mediteranian, European, and North African world was in the so called "Dark Ages".
One of the shining moments of my high school education is that Once and Future King was one of my English/History assigned reading texts and I devoured it, it was SO good and I still recommend it. Kids in my classes who “didn’t read” actually read ahead and past the assigned chunks, just loving the book. It was one of the most bonding and positive education experiences at that school. 💕
"The highest and most epicest fantasy" I was so sure you'd mention WoT here 😂 Anyway, I agree that subgenres don't really matter and there's way too much unneccessary debate!
If you have read Malazan, please disregard the following text, but it is just one explanation to why it would be the highest most epicest fantasy :) Even though I am a fan of both, WoT can't even compare to Malazan in this regard. Apart from having a world that is probably the size of earth where most of the continents are explored in the books, it also has innumerous planes making it even larger. That was size wise... Time wise, it speaks of a history of more than 300 000 years and the story even follows some characters that has been around for all that time. During this time there has been civilisation after civilisation rising and falling, and many of them playing a part in the story. Characters, Malazan doesn't follow a set of characters as much as a set of conflicts with one over arching conflict, meaning that is has a huge number of characters that you follow. I am quite sure that there are many more point of views in Malazan than WoT but I can't swear it. So yeah... It is a pretty big series ^^
@@pontuslindheohlsson2184 Malazan is my favorite series, so yes, I know how epic it is :) My comment was based on the fact that WoT is Daniel's favorite and he usually mentions it all the time :)
@@beatrice5043 Glad to hear it :) I am rereading the books now, just got my heart crushed once more by the Chain of Dogs... Daniel has talked about Malazans insane scope in a couple of videos and he tends to be neutral in that kind of questions.
I've always internally, probably even unconsciously until this video made me think about it, considered high fantasy to simply be any series that had classic DnD races like elves, dwarves, etc in it. Likewise I've always internally considered low-fantasy to simply be any fantasy setting where magic is related to something like 5% or less of the pagetime and didn't have any of the aforementioned fantasy races in it. Cool to learn more of the nuances.
I'm writing my own book and listening to this I'm realizing mine fits a few different genres: Portal, Urban/Low and Epic/High fantasy. Now looking at my list it's semi obvious why and how both urban and epic can be in the same book... I'll also elaborate before somebody complains or asks... there's two different POVs which is why I'm deeming it appropriate to place them in those genres. Whether or not when it's published it falls into any of these categories is totally not up to me. If it doesn't fit them exactly... well... too bad... I'm absolutely adopting them for when I explain my book to save my breath lol. Thank you Daniel for explaining the genres! I wasn't entirely aware some of these genres existed, will you be making another video similar to it? Also because of your videos I have several books/series I want to read! I don't have a very good memory of all the books I've read (or a good memory in general lol) however I'll add to some of the suggestions with a few that came to mind during this video. One urban fantasy is the Mercy Thompson series and another is the Alpha and Omega series both by Patricia Briggs. Mercy is a half Native American coyote shifter (or skinwalker as she calls herself) who always happens to find herself in trouble without even wanting to or trying to get into it. There's werewolves, vampires and even fae in the story as it continues. As the story goes on we learn a lot about Briggs' universe and what happens in it and how that effects both the supernatural creatures and the humans. (My favorite character is a werewolf name Ben) Alpha and Omega is about two werewolves, Charlies and Anna, in the same universe as Mercy (both of whom know her) they're mates and they solve mysteries of the supernatural world! Bringing justice to it and working on the political side of things. The story of their bookish universe slowly unfolds as both book series progresses. There IS an order I recommend reading these series in. Read them together as one big story! If you don't some thing's may not make sense; especially in the Alpha and Omega series. (My fave character from THESE books is Asil) Another series which fits urban fantasy along with vampires is the Sookie Stackhouse novels by Charlaine Harris. Some people might know that story loosely from the first couple of seasons of TrueBlood however the show is barely an adaptation and the books are AMAZING! It's about a waitress who works at a bar in Louisiana who happens to read minds. One night she meets a vampire in her little home town named Bill. The vampires have come out to the public and they are fighting to be recognized as people too. We follow Sookie as she unlocks secrets of her past, her powers and delve deeper into the world of the supernatural that Harris has created. (My fave character so far has to be Eric) If anyone has read these books and made it to the end of my probably very long comment and knows any of these characters then you, my friend, are awesome!
@@lux2625 A teen boy goes missing. His best friend, a wolf shifter, takes it upon herself to find him. Instead she finds a seelie elven prince in hiding. When they're attacked by guards of his kingdom, sent to bring him home, they accidentally get teleported to his world just off the coast of the unseelie realm. Meanwhile, her best friend is being tortured for something he doesn't know he can do, her brother is going crazy trying to find her and the supernatural detective assigned to her case grows more and more confused and realizes that there's a long string of missing persons who disappeared in similar ways all around the world but nobody can figure out why fae are kidnapping humans after several hundred years of relative peace.
@@lux2625 No, I hope to publish it once it's finished. So far I have about half of it done T . T I'm mostly just editing and revising it so most of it is just padding it out with details and explanations. The important parts are already down, thankfully lol
@@OmegaTheSillyWolf Oh good luck with that. Part writing is a lot of rewriting xD let me know when you finish releasing it to the market, I'll take a look at it.
My favorite comedic fantasy is probably the Xanth books by Piers Anthony. I would love to see you review it though you might want to limit it to the first three books since there are more than three dozen.
I loved the books as well when I was younger, but 21st century audiences would likely deem them extremely "problematic." Every time Piers Anthony's name comes up on /r/fantasy that I've seen accusations of him being essentially a P to the E to the D to the O soon follow. I personally don't believe this, but I do think the series went rapidly downhill after about the sixth book.
Thank you so much for this summary! ^_^ I especially appreciate your explanation of the Dark Fantasy sub genre since I focus on it in my own writing 😊💙
I have a question about one of my favorite book series, The Pillars of Reality (and the 2 other series in that universe). Brief description: same universe as earth is in but in the future. There's use of both technology and magic (but only by the 2 respective guilds). Technology: best I can say is like in a Civ game when you research pots and then recieve tanks. Basically they have some steam technologies (boilers and engines are the main of such) but not beyond what we have accomplished here on Earth. They also have guns (revolvers and rifles). Electricity is a thing (lights, radios called "far talkers", and some few CADs or Calculating and Analisys Devices).
I had always been taught that "high" "middle" or "low" fantasy was more about how the characters in the setting interact with magic. You could even have high fantasy stories in low fantasy settings for example, something like LotR would qualify as while the characters have magic done to them on a semiregular basis magical abilities within the setting are relatively rare, uncommon parts of every day life, compare to something like your average D&D setting where every town might have a cleric, sometimes even one strong enough to raise the dead if you've got enough spending money. I'm not using this as an argument to imply you're wrong of course, it's just what the concept of high fantasy vs low fantasy was explicitly taught to me as when I was first getting into the genre 'cause I hadn't seen it mentioned. I've got no idea if this is a common interpretation or usage of those meanings, but it's how it was initially discussed with me so *shrug.*
Hey Daniel, just a quick question at 0:37 that image of the lady lying down, who is the artist behind that? I know that John William Waterhouse has done similar paintings, but I've never seen it before. Thank you so much, and keep up the great work✊🏾❤️
Daniel! What are some of your favorite fantasy video games? Miyazaki’s dark souls games are my all time favorite. The game design is masterful. The world building and lore is up there with some of the greatest fantasy novels. It’s also a story that only works in the video game medium, unlike a lot of games.
Orson Scott Card's "The Tales of Alvin Maker" is a great representation of Historical Fantasy. It juggles a plethora of historical figures while weaving in fantastical elements to make a great overall series.
Dark fantasy just means a gloomy fictional world with low magic and the fantastical. Song of ice and fire is a clear dark fantasy. Have to say i'm disappointed. Most of these aren't "sub-genres" as much as keyword one uses to search of one.
I also always imagined dark fantasy as well, dark fantasy world, where things generally suck more than they don't. Unlike heroic fantasy, where the ending is always good. Dark Fantasy, high fantasy, low fantasy and Science Fantasy are the only ones I'd consider "Sub-genres" as a lot of these "Sub-genres" aren't genres, but just plot heavy on that particular area. Like, what is vampire fantasy. Vampires can exist in a high fantasy, low fantasy and a dark fantasy world. That's the incorrect usage of "Sub-genre".
For Dark Tower I personally recommend HP Lovecraft the most, especially if you like cosmic horror and short stories. And yes, most of his work is interconnected
If you want to read some hilarious absurdism fantasy, Id recommend the Zamonia books by Walter Moers. One of the funniest and most creative stuff Ive ever read.
If you like some Discworld books, I think the way to go is figure out which set of characters and themes you like, and read books about those. To me, Vimes and the Night Watch are the best, but Death and his granddaughter Susan are right up there as well. And Rincewind. And Lord Patrician Vetinari. And, well, everyone else.
"The ones that take a minute to load" _laughs in brown bess three-round-per-minute rate of fire_ Also I though high fantasy was fantasy with a high "fantasy" content; magic, made up worlds and cultures, fantasy creatures, et cetera, and epic fantasy was fantasy where the story is on a large scale and could effect the whole world. Something could be both high fantasy and epic fantasy, like, say, the first Mistborn trilogy, but something else could be high fantasy but not epic fantasy, like the Wax and Wayne books from the same world.
A tale of the Kin series by Douglas Hulick (gas light?) and The Demon Cycle by Peter V Brett (many, many subcatagories!) are wonderful reads. Also, thanks to your recommendations I'm now two books into The Witcher... can't believe it took so long for me to get around to this!! Amazing.
Wow, feeling called out on medieval fantasy. On a serious note, fun guide! I personally read books and write ttrpg campaigns that are fantasy for the escapist sense to "live" in a much happier world where you can ignore the dark underbelly. From what I've gathered, a campaign I'm currently trying to make is a High Medieval, Swords-and-Sorcery/Heroic Fantasy, with some (I think it's) Dark Fantasy if the players decide to explore the corrupted and morally bankrupt side of the world that the average person doesn't get to see. Then of course, depending on players, there may be added genres like Coming of Age and Court Intrigue. Pretty generic, I know, but can't help that's what I like.
a long time ago i heard different explanation of high and low fantasy and to be honest i like it a lot more, but it contradicts, or more like doesnt match the one explained here, at all. it stated that high fantasy, is a fantasy that has "a lot of magic" in the world, meaning it has wizards, spells, magical creatures and so on. basically like almost every fantasy element. so something like Warcraft, Eragorn, things like that, that are full of magic. while low fantasy is a fantasy that has very little magical elements in it. like, i don't know, Game of Thrones (the show, not the books, in the books there are more magical elements) it has very few magical elements in it. it has some kind of zombies, some dragons, and basically that's it. and magic is so rare that most people actually think it's a legend. or something like Dracula. it has fantasy element, but beside vampires and their influence there is not much more fantasy elements there. i like this classification a lot more, it also fit the words a lot more - high means a lot of magic; low means almost no magic. i don't get why a fantasy that is just set in our world would be called "low". and on the other side, if your story is set in a different world but has no magic in it other than let say some fantastic race, like trolls, why would it be called "high fantasy". it makes no sense for me. all other names have some merit to them. history - it involves history; dark - it involves dark themes; YA - it involves and is targeted at YA. and so on. and suddenly - low, it means it's set on our planet... high it means it's not set on our planet... what is the connection
I've seen this definition a lot and although it is objectively not what those terms mean I can appreciate the appeal of the idea there would be a way of describing the prevalence magical elements in a world it just isn't what those terms mean in the context
@@raddude585 yeah, i'm not saying it's the correct definition or something. it's technically just a name, whoever "invented" the term can name it however they want. i'm just saying that those terms as in their original explanation are poorly chosen in my opinion. the terms low and high, which are usually used to describe intensity of some sort, here are used more like location describers, and have nothing to do with any kind of intensity. i'm sure there are way more appropriate names for a fantasy that takes place in a different world. and i understand why the confusion about number of books comes from. just high, as an adjective doesnt make much sense in what it really is describing.
thank you a lot for this video! it really helps as a beginner to select some authors and books to start with, as the fantasy landscape is so confusing when you haven't read anything
Spook's Apprentice aka The Wardstone Chronicles by Joesph Delaney is YA Horror Fantasy. I love it because its YA fantasy that doesn't focus on a dystopia, romance, and/or vampires/werewolves.
Thank you! Now I know that one of the books I'm writing is Comtemporary-Coming of Age-Court Intrigue-Fable-Low-Military-YA-Series fantasy. But the other one is even more complicated, it starts out as Gaslamp-Low-Coming of Age-Fable-Heroic-Romantic-Swashbuckling-YA-Series fantasy, but as the story progresses it will rather be Low-Heroic-Romantic-Swashbuckling-YA-Series fantasy, since the main characters age up and so does the world around them, so the Coming of Age and Gaslamp elements kinda gets lost. And there will be a prequel as well (because of course there has to be), which is rather Gaslamp-Low-Coming of Age-Dark-Swashbuckling-somewhat Assassin-YA-Series fantasy, except that it's not fantasy yet since the protagonist is not aware of magic even existing, let alone his own skills.😂😂😂😂😂 So yeah, frankly I don't give a fork about these rules, I just write what I want in order to entertain myself, and maybe even the readers. If these ever get published anywhere. This isn't my job, just one of my hobbies like hiking or archery.
Not to be nitpicky, but it takes place during the Regency period, not the Victorian period. George III is still king in the novel and is actually a portrayed character.
Interesting take on the High/Epic fantasy genre description. I've always used Epic, High, Low, Dark, Horror, as descriptors of the tone of the story instead of the worldbuilding in itself. For exemple, Song of Ice and Fire is an original world but wouldn't qualify as epic fantasy because the characters are not heroes and the magic system is soft and not prevalent to the story told. As a contrast, Harry Potter takes place on a somewhat modern Earth but magic is so integral to the story that we couldn't imagine calling it Low Fantasy. Nice video overall, keep up the excellent work!!
Another sub-genre (or genre all on its own) of Fantasy worth checking out is Sword and Sorcery. It is, in many ways, the foundation of a lot of fantasy stories today have roots in. It does have overlaps (or perhaps anticipations) of low fantasy, dark fantasy, grimdark fantasy, and smatterings of heroic and quest (and even urban) fantasy depending on the stories. Usually at the protagonists of the stories are martial combatants who are usually driven by basic needs or emotions like money, revenge, survival, etc. and their main enemies are either other fighters or magic-users, and magic in Sword and Sorcery is dangerous and scary whether those who use it are "good" or evil (and most wizards in these stories tend to fall into the latter due to magic's corrupting, maddening nature). These stories also seem to comment on the decadence that can be caused by civilization, thus most of the protagonists are loners most of the time who refuse to accept the confines of high society and are more comfortable giving themselves over to the primal attitudes of hardened survivalists. The best stories to read from this genre are anything by Robert E. Howard (namely Conan, Kull, Solomon Kane, Bran Mak Morn, etc.) and Michael Moorcock's Eternal Champion series (for that I'd recommend Elric and Corum). Also, for Howard, avoid any anthology or "novel" that has been written or edited by L. Sprague de Camp.
High Fantasy was always the genre where the story takes place in a world populated by elves and dwarves and ogres, where magic is commonplace Epic Fantasy has always been told with an emphasis on more mundane conflicts as the main focus. There may be magic or magical creatures but bulk of the tale concerns men and/or women achieving legendary stature. Your 'Portal Fantasy' is what we called 'There and Back'. The protagonist leaves the comfort of home, willingly or not, and has to find their way home again. It's broader in scope because it also entails 'nonportal' means. 'The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant' is a great example as the eponymous protagonist is transported to 'the Land' by means that involve injury and his leprosy, and he is held there by his doubts (He's a real Doubting Thomas). Also it could mean a 'Heroes Quest' like in 'the Hobbit' or LOTR. 'Sword and Sorcery' is still viable as a Fantasy Genre because while it may seem generic it is tied directly to tales about Pre-History worlds with the typical protagonist is a Barbarian/Swordsman surviving in a hostile world where there are ferocious beasts, ancient races and dark primordial magicks. You know, Conan, Brak, Thongor, Fahrd and the Grey Mouser, King Kull, Suar Peial, and Elric/Corum/Erekose/Daker (the Eternal Champion)
Guy Gavriel Kay's Fionavar Tapestry is an amazing portal fantasy work and surprisingly has Arthurian elements. I think that's one of the best series I have ever read in any genre and it's only a trilogy so that's a bonus if you don't want to read millions of words to get to the end.
I believe that magic realism is a mostly Latin American subgenre where magic is mostly seen as normal and some normal things are seen as magical. In the most famous Magical Realism book (100 years of solitude) the book begins with the main characters father showing the main character Ice. There is also a moment where it rains flowers and it is seen as normal.
Exactly. Usually it is described as a realistic settinf with fantastical elements. As a South American when he mentioned magical realism and described it how he did it low key triggered me lol.
Reading through Wikipedia it seems that there are many different types and sub-types of magical realism.
None of which Mistborn qualifies for mind.
Exactly, magical realism is Sanderson's antithesis. It is where the fanciful aspect is shown as the everyday and the ordinary as wonderful. Where to see ice for the first time is magical, but walking through the air, returning from the dead, is everyday things, without "rules".
I think that maybe it is both a sub-genre of fantasy (Magic realism Fantasy) and a different genre (just Magical realism). Either way, I always thought of it as more of a style of the author, though it has been a while since I had a class about it (Im also latinoamerican )
@@franciscopoblete5854 Not really, Daniel confused magic realism with hard fantasy. Hard fantasy creates its "magic systems" and world with a great focus on logic and clear rules. Magical realism is just that, the Latin American fantasy current of using fantasy as an allegory to abstract emotions, feelings or concepts without any type of rule or limitation .
And no, it's not just a style, but it's subgenre. (If a character is in love, he will walk through the air or vomit live or dead butterflies ... This without any reason or explanation beyond the allegory to the image of the "butterflies in the stomach")
1:52 Alternative history
2:18 Arthurian Fantasy
3:00 Assassin Fantasy
3:30 Christian Fantasy
4:06: Comic/Absurdist Fantasy
5:05 Coming of Age Fantasy
6:01 Court Intrigue Fantasy
7:02 Dark Fantasy
7:42 Dragon Fantasy
8:02 Epic/High Fantasy
10:16 Erotic Fantasy
10:40 Fable/Fairy Tale Fantasy
11:13 Gaslamp Fantasy
12:10 Grimdark Fantasy
13:18 Gunpower/Flintlock Fantasy
14:10 Heroic Fantasy
14:27 Low Fantasy
14:49 Magic Realism Fantasy
14:57 Medieval Fantasy
15:03 Military Fantasy
15:08 Paranormal Fantasy
15:17 Quest Fantasy
15:39 Portal Fantasy
15:48 Romantic Fantasy
15:54 Science Fantasy
16:05 Series Fantasy
16:11 Steam Punk Fantasy
16:32 Superhero Fantasy
16:43 Swashbuckling Fantasy
17:22 Urban/Modern Fantasy
17:56 Vampire Fantasy
18:14 YA Fantasy
Ty
@@badassbillyb 14:10
You’re a real hero. xD
thx bro
I didn’t even realise it was alphabetical that’s mad
I love how discworld literally helped people come to terms with death. Viewed it less as something scary and more as an inevitable comfort. Fans with terminal illnesses genuinely sent letters to the author explaining how his depiction of death made them less scared, how they hoped he was as kind.
I'm in no hurry to meet him, but I hope he's there in the end.
If anyone is looking for a unique urban fantasy, Russian author Lukyanenko can be an interesting option. Most of the books in his World of Watches series are available in English.
You? Here?
@@stefanmarkovic8424 I am still surprised whenever I see him here
@@satyamprakash7030 they did historical battles from game of thrones i think. its good look for it.
I I ook
Applep
When Daniel said “dragons that are important.”
and my mind screamed Eragon. I really felt that
Dragon I thought Dragonriders of Pern. Then based on his description of high/epic fantacy then it can make a running in that section as well.
Erdagon is such an underrated series.
Magic realism is s genre that adds magic or fantastical elements to a realistic setting and usually deals with exploring the culture of a society. It was really popular in Latin America in the 20th century and it's most known authors are Latin American like García Márquez, Jorge Luis Borges, Isabel Allende, etc. Great video btw.
The "this sub-genre is better than that one" comes when some people forget that what they like isn't an objective truth
What they should be saying is "this sub-genre fits my tastes better than that one" and a lot of the unnecessary conflicts would not come up
I really don't think you should have to be that conscious of your word choice. Obviously when I say "this is better", I'm voicing myself and myself only.
I often voice my opinions by using statements such as: This thing is better than that thing or That would never happen, etc
Obviously those are an opinion and a prediction, respectively. When it comes to discussions involving subjective preferences, theories or predictions I’m not going to continually explain that my opinions are opinions. That should be self explanatory...
it's sad that it has to come to this. We're just here cause we like reading books and we got all this debate club shit going on. I understand we talk about our hobbies with other people who like them as well, but I dont understand why people want to constantly discuss everything all the time like this. Its just sub genres guys.
But how will I feel superior to others because of my taste in books?
@@RalphNC09 Now, it also comes down to the circumstances. I admit, I may've been too extreme with my wording there. Usually saying things like Pieter-Ben Smit mentioned: this is better/that'd never happen, are totally fine. Though sutuations like ones mentioned in the video - trashing other sub-genres (or books for that matter) just because someone likes them better than others - that is what I wanted to criticise
15:44 "Portal Fantasy" aka Isekei Anime
Star Wars is science fantasy is the Hill I will die on. People need to stop calling Star Wars science fiction. It just isn't.
The simple existence of the force is what pushes it into science fantasy, I completely agree with this opinion.
You can easily categorize it many different ways without being wrong. The most appropriate, I believe, is Space Opera: "Space opera is a subgenre of science fiction that emphasizes space warfare, melodramatic adventure, interplanetary battles, chivalric romance, and risk-taking."
@@nofacej1 yeah, but Star Wars has magic (the force) which makes the "science fantasy" tag adecuate.
TBH with my experience Fantasy has always been more logical than realistic than most science fiction.
The Force is just a hard magic system.
Daniel, magical realism is Sanderson's antithesis.
It is where fantasy has no rules beyond serving as allegory. Where the fantasy is part of the ordinary to the point of being ignored.
Example; One Hundred Years of Solitude. The "guilt" of a character for being indirectly responsible for the death of an enemy, is shown in the narrative as a ghost that simply inhabits his old house, where a character returns from his death just because he considered it boring. Where the knowledge of the death of a son reaches the mother when the blood of this son travels from a house through the streets, crossing an entire town only to reach her feet.
Anyway, it is magic without rules that only follows a figure similar to fables, that is, fantasy is used to explain everyday or cultural things (Human guilt, love, fear of death or rejection of the idea of this, mother's instinct).
And I say that it is Sanderson's antithesis, because in fact it is common in this kind of story that when there is a character who tries to "learn" magic, he is condemned to live in the ordinary.
Bless you kind commenter lol
My problem with this statement and others I have seen (including what's in the video) is that no clear consensus seems to exist. Much like 'Mary Sue' and virtually anything on TVTropes, the definition of any of these terms is dependent on who is talking. Those who move within the same circles as Daniel will likely use the term the same way or similarly to how he does, while those with whom you converse regularly on the topic will use a similar definition to yours. I consider the label and most others to be next to meaningless because of this. That said, your definition is reasonable given certain ways of viewing the term 'realism', ways which you clearly feel apply. Your opinion on what the term should mean is just as valid as anyone else's. I simply wish to suggest that your definition, and Daniel's definition for that matter, is not THE definition.
I’d also put “Holes” by Louis Satcher into the magical realism genre. Story has curses and events too contrived to be coincidental as just a part of the world; it’s accepted as fact that Stanley’s family has bad luck because his pig-stealing, no-good great great grandfather didn’t fulfill his promise to a witch, and Greenlake dries up after the death of Sam, only raining again when the granddaughter of his murderer faces justice.
Wow, that was well said
Brandon Sanderson has actually pointed out, a good example of magical fantasy is the Disney movie Encanto.
15:50 Oh my dear Daniel... I wasn't ready for that.
For alternative history, and I guess also dragon fantasy, I cannot recommend the Temeraire series enough. It's a reimagining of the Napoleonic wars, with the addition of an air force of dragons. I'm obsessed.
I still have no idea why people are sleeping on this series.
That sounds really cool.
It's probably because of critical role but i like it when a main character has a flintlock, but i prefer the world not to have guns because i guess i prefer pre-gun combat for armies & worlds
So I know this comment is a year old, but the whole "the middle ages didn't have guns" belief is a massive misconception. They absolutely had guns back in the middle ages, but not what we think of as guns now days. They had small portable hand cannons which then evolved into very early musket guns and so on. There's a really great video by Shadiversity on guns in the middle ages which also talks about the armour knights would wear in an attempt to protect themselves from these guns. Iirc they were mostly used in sieges though.
Like yeah pre-gun combat is super interesting, but I think it'd also be interesting to see a fantasy setting in this time that also had these early guns that wasn't a pirate fantasy story.
@@GiveMeYourEyes947 Pre-Arquebus handguns didn't have a very important role on the battlefield. Until the Renaissance, you're mostly going to see primitive cannons in sieges called bombards, which were popularized in the 14th century.
I guess a dirty tube of iron firing at a castle for days on end isn't romantic enough for most fantasy settings.
Honestly me too, I always kinda wanted to see a duel between an artificer/gusmith character and a wizard.
@@GiveMeYourEyes947 there is also a very interesting period where medieval combat war transitioning into line combat. This is the period with the pike and shot formations and mounted pistoleers clad in full plate.
Would be cool if you did a video focused on the Asia sphere fantasy genre. Things like Transmigration, reincarnation, Isekai varieties and cultivation.
Yeah that'd be cool
But most western authors are not familiar with Eastern fantasy
Magical Realism is an entirely different thing than what you described. Look Gabriel Garcia Marquez, Haruki Murakami, Sulman Rushdie etc. It has nothing to do with Mistborn.
Correct. Magical realism is basically normal human beings in our normal world with slight paranormal things going on. For example maybe a person can see into the future or has an unnatural abilities. For example - The Curious Case of Benjamin Button.
I'll give some movies as examples too- The green mile, The age of adaline, Penelope. These are magical realism.
@@zishatanzila8474 Practical Magic, both movie and book are the best examples I've come across.
Zisha Tanzila would Ninth House fall into this or occult fantasy or occult fiction?
@@christopherbacon1077 best example... I don't think so. Best example is certainly 100 years of solitude. But I didn't know there was a book and as I like the movie I will look for it.
@@HAngeli Never read 100 Years of Solitude so can't judge
The Outlander series could be a good recommendation for erotic fantasy. It's more Romance than Erotic, and it's also Time Travel, Historic, and quite other genres.
I love a book that is quite many things.
@@jhart1127 I don’t know the tv show looks eh
I've read "The Name of the Wind" when I was 'coming to age' and will probably read the last book of the lot when I get to retirement...
That's awfully optimistic . . .
@Krazzy Panda212 noway
@@pkrdy3 maybe in 5 more years
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Lets not pressure Rothfuss into creating something similar of GoT ending season. Retirement age is appropriate deadline. Or.. deathline, I guess..
Some recommendations:
Erotic fantasy: Kushiel’s Dart series
Portal Fantasy: Mordant’s Need Fantasy
Military Fantasy: Warcraft, Starcraft series
Dark Fantasy: The Talisman by Stephen King & Peter Straub, a (previously) one-off novel that blew my mind.
Dragon fantasy or alternate history fantasy: The Temeraire series (a reimagining of the Napoleonic wars - with dragons).
Really goodlist! Thanks
The last one sounds Bat shit crazy
What is your favorite Fantasy Sub-genre?
steampunk sci fi
Epic or dark
Have you tried any Indian fantasy books? Would love if you check them out. Popular names that come up are Amish Tripati, Samit Basu, Indra Das. If you want to start by something small, read Indra Das' Breaking Water. It has a subversive take on zoombies. I think you will love it.
I'm a dark fantasy kinda guy
Epic/High/Urban Fantasy, but there are so many that are so good. though truth be told, i always thought High Fantasy was a story that used alot magic and artifacts in the series.
Young Adult fantasy:
Antoine de Saint-Exupéry - The Little Prince
Man... that story always drives me to cry. It's stated to be a children book or not even a book just a tale, but in my childhood I didn't get it as much as I'm an adult now.
YOU MUST HAVE TEN BOOKS TO BE EPIC FANTASY!! WE ALL KNOW LORD OF THE RINGS ISN'T EPIC FANTASY, NOPE, NOT AT ALL.
Well, technically, if you count all the books Tolkien wrote about the universe, its almost there...
Well, techinally (2), LOTR isn't Epic Fantasy because Middle Earth is actually canonically Earth but some 10,000 in the past. Do I get to be the nitpickiest nerd?
@@vitormelomedeiros Scientists would have a laugh about that one, but lets accept it as a nice fantasy theory:-D
You know i heard once, in an interview i could probably never find again that Tolkin once said that LOTR did take place on earth. but he would never say were.
LotR is an epic fantasy short story.
What a fantasy way of saying having sex for the first time, “having their first lay”
Love it
Yuup
Absurdist Fantasy: best ever written, I'll vote "Alice in Wonderland."
The Bible?
@@Maskawanian the Bible is backed up with archaeology and is a religious treatise. Including letters to people from historical figures. Whether you believe in it or not, most of it is not fantasy just as you wouldn't say the Dead Sea Scrolls or Quran, Bhagavad Gita or Ramayana are fantasy. They're religious texts.
And yes Alice is absurdist at least as defined by Kierkegaard, but not as defined by Camus. Sadly Discworld is not absurdist by either Kierkegaard's or Camus's definitions though it certainly has absurdist elements, particularly the Nights Watch novels. He is however a brilliant satirist. Is satirical fantasy a thing???
@@deisophiagaming8216 Hahahaha, as long as you can sleep at night telling that lie to yourself
@@deisophiagaming8216 Dude, out of hundreds of Bible stories, pretty much only two of those have ANY credibility whatsoever. The Assyrian and Babylonian exile - that's pretty much it. All others have absolutely not a single archaeological evidence for them. And no there are no letters to prove anything as the earliest written connections to those stories were written hundreds of year after the so-told story.
As long as those religious texts are consisting of fantasies, one definition isn't replacing the other.
@@vladi1Z love the way all of you ignore the Bhagavad Gita, Qu'ran and other religious texts... So limited.
But that said there is extensive archaeological evidence as well as written Roman records for the Bible Torah and Qu'ran. Sites like Nineveh, Shivta, Caves at Qumran, Masada, Tel Meggido, Tel Hazor, Petra, El-Araj and so so many more. there are of course hoaxes like the Shroud of Turin, as well as the very questionable validity of numerous relics found within churches spread across Europe. Try as you might many biblical accounts are corroborated by various inscriptions on monuments such as the Jehoash inscriptions, Greek books by Herodotus and Thucydides, various Stele from both Assyrian and Babylonian ruins. (Sadly much if which has been ruined with the many many attacks on Iraq and Iran, some of which is at least preserved by places like the London Museum).
By the way it's fine not to believe in a religion but to ignore evidence that does speak to historical facts is wilfully blind and ignorant. So texts like the Bible are not simply fantasy there are corroborated historical facts, associated with them hence they are religious texts a separate genre.
Daniel: Erotic Fantasy- it is a real subgenre
My brain: Interspecies Reviewers
From my brief dip in the genre, it often involves some sort of BDSM, at least I've not seen other types of erotica in that genre.
I was JUST thinking of typing this same comment!
@@mascotwithadinosaur9353 ah, I see you’re a man of culture as well
@@SerafRhayn Damn it, i'm to late :D
@Seraf Rhayn OMFG YOU ARE LITERALLY SO RIGHT DJSOAJBSKD
Good morning to you too, Daniel! I voted for this video and can't wait to watch it on my break! Just wanted to stop in and say your awesome.
"In the grim darkness of the 41st millennium, there is only war."
Love that Warhammer 40k birthed a whole sub-genre.
Dude Warhammer has inspired a ton of things. When I play WoW Im like "yep they took that...and that, and that, and that there!" It never ends lol
@@gabbyb9418 well of course! WH40k Is one of the oldest and most famous Science Fantasy franchise.
Don't let this distract you from the fact that 40K takes a lot from Dune and LotR
@@gabbyb9418 WH40k is what would happen if Star Wars, Dune, Silmarillion, C’thullu mythos, Bible and Alice in Wonderland had a testostherone and cocaine-induced orgy and created a monster of a child who had a very bad upbringing
Question for the day. What is a good high fantasy series with both religious/spiritual and psychological themes?
Well, now I have to race Daniel to finish Once and future king first
Magical Realism is when a story has subdued fantastical elements that may or may not have a logical explanation. They are almost always set in the real world or something like it. It's basically regular fiction where the characters encounter something that seems magical and it is left unresolved, or could be passed off as hallucinations or something. Mistborn definitely isn't Magical Realism.
Low Fantasy is similar. It's a story set in an obviously fantastical world but the magical elements are subdued. Magic is usually vague and rare, and generally appears mundane, with few magical creatures. The story might become more High fantasy as it gets to the midway point or beyond, but the setting is predominately just an alternate world. KJ Parker is an extreme example of this as his books sometimes have zero magic at all, but Robin Hobb is probably a more normal recommendation. Harry Potter definitely is not Low Fantasy.
High Fantasy, therefore, is just where magic and magical creatures etc are clear as day and definitely real.
Epic Fantasy is more about scope and scale, just like any "epic" story. A Song of Ice and Fire could be considered Epic Low Fantasy.
Heroic fantasy I think refers more to Sword and Sorcery unless I'm mistaken; Conan is probably what is meant by that.
I don't think I really agree with treating High and Epic Fantasy as the same thing, nor do I think they are mutually exclusive.
I believe Epic Fantasy refers to the scale of the world created/presented in the story. While it is true most epic fantasy takes place in a secondary world, I would argue this is because when a secondary world is created, more work has often been done to increase the scope/scale of things. It is conceivable that a story can take place in a secondary world but fail to have the scope to be epic (e.g. _Tower of Fear_ by Glen Cook), and the reverse is also possible, though less likely (e.g. the works of Homer may qualify).
High Fantasy on the other hand refers to the prevalence of fantastical elements (magic etc.) within a world/story, this can be viewed in contrast to Low Fantasy* where the fantastical elements are more sedated. High and Low Fantasy is probably best viewed as a continuum with some stories being identifiable as falling more inline with one end of the spectrum over another. For example, _Stormlight Archive_ is higher fantasy than _ASoIaF._ Thus we oft simplify (at the expense of accuracy) by saying _Stormlight Archive_ is High Fantasy while _ASoIaF_ is Low Fantasy, even though _ASoIaF_ may be higher than other world/stories.
Again, under these definitions the terms are not mutually exclusive. Both _Stormlight_ and _ASoIaF_ are Epic Fantasy, but one is Higher Fantasy than the other.
* Necessarily I disagree with describing Low Fantasy as taking place in the primary world. Obviously any term can be used anyway a person wants to use it, but I am making the argument that the above stated use of the terms has the most utility and makes the most sense given the underlying words.
Agree with this comment
disagreed
TrueBright 616 Could you elaborate on where/why you disagree?
The more important question is, why are we having this debate in the first place.
@@nadeking4825 I think it's nice to have discussions like this so some terms are clearer but not to strictly define it.
The message of this video holds true...genre doesn't matter. One of my favorite book series growing up was The Infernal Devices. In itself it can qualify to fit in, steampunk fantasy, vampire fantasy, dark fantasy, YA fantasy, gaslamp fantasy, fable fantasy, low fantasy, and many others I can't even remember. Most stories in general cross genre in some way, and in fantasy thats often brought to an insane level as people can take influences from thousands of sources, some even unconciously.
Brentweeks shouted out your channel on his Facebook page
Cool
trying to find a subgenre for lord of Mysteries, you have mc Playing a detective in a victorian london like City, using a pistol as weapon while having seers power but you also get fights between gods and angels that shake the world and lovecraftian horror with outer gods.
you also have elves, giants, dragons and other Mythical beings. but also steampunk.
you also get evil Organisations causing mass murder to summon their evil god
and mc is transmigrated from modern earth
you also get like 2000 pages that play on the high sea with pirates and pirate ships.
one of the main side Characters is a vampire
For Military fantasy, I enjoyed Glen Cook's "The Black Company" (also fits into Grim Dark, and Epic/High fantasy). And for Erotic and Romance fantasy, I'd really recommend JR Ward's "Black Dagger Brotherhood" (also fits into Vampire, Paranormal, Assassin, Low, and Urban fantasy).
The best way to describe genres and subgenres is this.
(Sub)Genres are to stories as # tags are to instagram posts.
Overlap is garenteed, improperly placed labels are more prevalent than not.
Alternative history fantasy I would recommend His Majesty's Dragon
I would say that the best dragon fantasy is Anne McCaffrey, hands down. I still haven’t finished the series, but the first several novels are brilliant and imaginative.
I was going to mention her too! I love her books!
It also can be consider high/epic based on Daniel's description.
15:50 i think we've found a new gif
OMG, yes
Coming from a Tabletop world. High fantasy and Epic fantasy are not synonyms. High fantasy is "high" in the amount of magic in the world. The opposit is Low fantasy, with "low" amounts of magic.
Epic fantasy is referring to the scale of the work. It will cover a fast swath of places and people. You will often find lots of characters and viewpoints. Also, large amounts of history and world-building are usually involved.
A Song of Ice and Fire is a great example of Epic fantasy but Low fantasy. Does anyone else see things like this?
here. I'm right there with you.
@@gegalloneword1481 Do you think its maybe an older person thing? All these young twenty-somethings changing thing?
Recommendation for good vampire fantasy is The Utterly Uninteresting and Uneventful Tales of Fred the Vampire Accountant (and all of the books after that) as it is also one of the best series I have ever read. It is super transformative of any idea that I had of vampires and vampire fantasy.
No spoiler summary: Nerd accountant (specifically he helps others with taxes) gets turned. With newfound powers of concentration does more taxes and helps propel his accounting service.
That honestly sounds amazing. And hilarious. I must read it.
@@StarlitSeafoam yea. It's the only book I considered with the main character as a vamp so far
For Erotic Fantasy, Kushiel's Dart. Highly recommend these books!
Love that series!
Im judging by the cover here, but if the book is actual called "kushiel's dart" being erotic fantasy, I'd buy if just for the title. But, it it's written by Kushiel. And the book is called 'Dart' it would not make me snicker so much..
@@qine6559 so which was it
Smooth move skating out of recommending an erotic fantasy book. That had me laughing out loud!!! LOL
Kushiel's Dart -series, actually quite good besides the erotic scenes. Sex is central to the plot but it's not on every page. Laurel K. Hamilton's books. The Fae Chronicles series by Amelia Hutchins (very much erotica this, BJ's galore).
It's not that hard, boys & girls - pun intended.
@Steven Sandleben People don't bang though, they just do weird sexual stuff...like Lestat and the nun ughhhh gag.
Recommendation for erotic fantasy: the claiming of sleeping beauty by Anne Rice.
You never look at the fairytale of sleeping beauty the same ever again after that.
Would Lost Girls by Alan Moore count?
I'm thinking the black Jewels series by Anne Bishop.
flintlock fantasy is a genre i am about to try to get into with the powdermage trilogy because of your recommendation through a couple of videos. thank you sir!
"Midsummer Night's Dream," YES!
The "Fables" comic book series also qualifies. It's also urban fantasy for the most part.
Magical realism is basically normal human beings in our normal world with slight unexplained paranormal things going on. For example maybe a person can see into the future or has an unnatural abilitiy. For example - The Curious Case of Benjamin Button.
I'll give some movies as examples too- The green mile, The age of adaline, Penelope. These are magical realism.
Hmm, very interesting!
My personal differentiation for epic vs high, is more like the dragon fantasy idea. High fantasy is the traditional elves, dwarves, orcs, humans etc. Obviously LOTR fits here.
Epic fantasy is more about scope/size than setting. For example, obviously stormlight archive and probably mistborn go here, but I wouldn't put elantris or worldbreaker, even though they're the same style from the same author, even the same universe.
Clearly there are many books that would fit into both, like the aforementioned LOTR, and probably the legend of drizzt books. But to me they are describing different aspects of the story. High is setting, and epic is scope.
Just my thoughts, thanks for the video!
Drizz't is awesome!! One of my most favorite series!!💜
So your definition of "high fantasy" is anything that copies LOTR?
Major props and respect for respecting peoples religion in this video and saying what you felt and how it annoyed you, I gained major respect for you for that. You truly want to treat everything fair even if you don't agree with it, and you're here to review books, not push an agenda. Major MAJOR respect for you. Subbed, love your vids.
Hi Daniel, really enjoying your videos, keep up the good work! I do have to point out that I think you got magic realism wrong. Magic realism is more the use of fantasy and supernatural elements in a real world setting that’s not explicitly explained as magic and is just accepted as part of the narrative. The fantasy element is usually used as a metaphor to enhance the themes of the story. Or at least that’s my understanding of it, it’s a hard genre to explain and make sense of. I really enjoyed Bone Gap by Laura Ruby as an example of magic realism. Mistborn is definitely not magic realism though.
Thank you for this informative and entertaining video! I especially appreciate that you included recommendations.
My soul is so happy that Discworld got a mention and that you went past book 1. If you love Death, please please please go on to book 4.
"Get off your high fantasy horse" Brilliant!
Great Video, and very fun to watch! I would never even think to describe Sanderson as magical realism though. If anything I would think of magical realism as a subgenre of low-fantasy, where the book is barely distinguishable from literary fiction except there are magical elements which are not treated as spectacular elements to a story, leaning more towards surrealism than traditional fantasy. When I think of magical realism the first books that come to mind are 100 years of solitude or Like Water for Chocolate, which are appropriate since both are by Latin American authors which is where the genre was spearheaded. This is not a criticism btw, just my interpretation of the genre. Keep up the good work, look forward to your videos every day!
Magical realism tends to attract a lot of gatekeeping-type comments, like that you were afraid of with high fantasy. It's a more "literary" genre, sometimes thought to be literary-types trying to worm their way out of having liked a fantasy book (Pratchett said this, for example). Gene Wolfe called it "fantasy written by people who speak Spanish". It's usually associated with Latin America. There's often a political element to it and the magic "system" is usually barely explained at all, often because it's based in folklore and/or the audience is presumed to be already familiar with it. Also, the fantasy element in magical realism is usually pretty low-key. It is basically never set in a secondary world, so I don't think Mistborn would qualify.
The classic example is One Hundred Years of Solitude, or just about anything by Gabriel Garcia Marquez.
I know it's not really your wheelhouse Daniel, but for Dark Fantasy I cannot recommend anything higher than Berserk.
Yes it is a manga series, so that will be a turn off for many people. However, if people can get past that, it's basically the embodiment of what I feel the genre thrives on. A dark setting with characters who struggle against the very nature of their world. It is to this day, the base for all western-medieval fantasy in Japan.
Weaveworld or Books of Art trilogy(two book for now) by Clive Berker are my fav dark fantsay
Holyyy, holy forces!!!!!
I'd say berserk is grim dark for sure. And it is the greatest story ever told imo. But Murias art is berserk is the definition of a picture is worth a thousand words.
Slayereyez I’ve always been of the opinion that the exchange rate between pictures and words fluctuates depending on the words and pictures in question. By this logic, Shrek 3 is worth more than any piece of written literature
@@disorientedkiwi7984 lol surely you can't compare an animated film like shrek to berserk its borderline blasphemous. If u have not already, step out of your comfort zone and read Berserk and Vagabond. I can almost guarantee if your posting here you will be glad you did. Most art looks small and unsubstantial when compared the likes of kintaro muria and ,Takehiko Inoue
I thought I'd never heard of Malazan and thought, "Well, why don't I give it a try." Then I saw in Audible 'in your library'. I was like, "Wow, a 26 hour book I never listened to?" Then I clicked on the title and it started playing 7 hours in...oh yeah. I gave up on this one. But maybe it has a payoff and I should restart and forge ahead?
Ayy Daniel, thanks for the shout-out! No one's ever called my name badass before, but I'll wear the title proudly. :-)
Looking forward to more great content from ya, and supporting you through it all the way. Peace!
Edit: Also, you pronounced my name perfectly! Pretty rare for people to do, in addiiton, so count yourself among the gifted few.
I can say this: I agree a lot of what you're saying and disagree just as much.
I will say that it's worth mentioning that Epic Fantasy and High Fantasy aren't synonyms. Not all Epic Fantasy are High Fantasy and vice versa.
I can have Sword & Sorcery story set within a High Fantasy backdrop. But Epic Fantasy and Sword & Sorcery are complete opposites when it comes to narrative structures.
Of what I understand is that Epic Fantasy's most prevelant and defining feature is that the story is about almost solely on world-changing events, in an almost sub-cosmic level.
Tolkien and his Mythopeic Format is(of what I understand), if not the genesis, the very kickstart of the whole Epic Fantasy genre.
That just one thing of many I disagree with, that High and Epic Fantasy are synonymous. But that's my sole analysis of almost two decades of reading fantasy and discussed with authors both in litrary form and tabletop gaming.
Still; I think you having good points in the genre; in this video particularly about the ludicrous amount subgenres(which aren't any subgenres in my humble opinion) and I like your channel. Keep it up! 👍
idk about the actual definition of magical realism, but how people and authors use it is to describe books set in our world and time with mystical/unexplained/whimsical magic
brandon sanderson is actually the furthest thing from magical realism
The Elric Saga by Michael Moorcock is a great example of heroic fantasy. He inspired Geralt from the Witcher to some extent and is behind some of the trends in grimdark. He's agnsty as hell though so watch out for that.
Ha "moorcock"
Another fun subgenre is “animal fantasy”, with the most successful most likely being Redwall. :) The Mouse Guard graphic novel series is also *legit*.
It doesn’t have to be medieval, though, such as Watership Down or the “Warriors” books by Erin Hunter.
I see your examples and raise you Tailchaser's Song, sir! Also, I loved Redwall, but I have a hard time thinking it was ever more popular than Watership Down...
Hand -of-Omega - I have just read ‘Hollow Kingdom’ by Kira Jane Buxton. In it humans have turned into zombies and the story is told by a pet crow S. T. (Shit Turd). He decides that he has to try and save all the domestic pets trapped in houses aided by a dog named Dennis. It also gives quite a few other species’ opinions on what is going on.
I always figured that 'low fantasy' just meant that the magic is very subtle or off to the side as opposed to a major part of the setting like in epic fantasy and not necessarily taking place on Earth.
Aye what if I make my own setting but it's basically almost entirely like this world, just geographically different with made up names and follows all the same rules and laws of physics we do, but it only has the smallest hint of magic here and there that isn't even necessarily relevant to the plot about he farmers week on his farm? Then is it not "low" fantasy due to the low amount of fantasy elements while still not being set on this earth?
And what if I take a setting like the Abe Lincoln Vamp hunter example he used, a real historical place and time, but I amp up the fantasy settings to 11? Make the places and amount of people bigger in scale, add huge amounts of magic and detailed magic systems, add fantasy races like elves and dwarves with their own extensively detailed history and cultures, add magical fantasy beasts like dragons and such, make the fantasy elements integral to be plot, then is it not "high" fantasy because of the high amounts of fantasy elements involved while still being a real historical or real world setting?
I guess it depends on what the majority of people feel the definition should be though.
I'd also seperate epic from high personally. If I add all those massive world details through exposition but the story itself is a novella contained and focused on say a single character not moving much through a small space in a short time then it's not really epic through what we see happening within the book, but if you have a giant page count showing multiple points of view from across a massive map space that the characters are constantly moving across with the book also showing large armies covering ground and fighting massive battles and defending giant cities against extremely powerful forces that could rule the whole world then the actual happenings of the book are very epic in that sense
As someone who's ventured into fantasy fairly recently, this video really helped!
For dragon fantasy I recommend checking out Melanie Rawn’s dragon prince and dragon star trilogies, as well as Anne McAffrey’s dragonriders of Pern books.
A video with you and Tim. Heaven. Both of you are my favourite youtubers
The recent trend with Arthurian Legend is to try to go historical rather than fantastical. One of my all time favorite historical takes is the Arthurian Aksumite cycle. First book takes place in Britain, and all the rest take place in Aksum and the area around the Red Sea. It's very cool, and nicely showcases how interconnected the Mediteranian, European, and North African world was in the so called "Dark Ages".
That was a fantastic video. Everything makes sense now thank you so much Daniel.
One of the shining moments of my high school education is that Once and Future King was one of my English/History assigned reading texts and I devoured it, it was SO good and I still recommend it. Kids in my classes who “didn’t read” actually read ahead and past the assigned chunks, just loving the book. It was one of the most bonding and positive education experiences at that school. 💕
"The highest and most epicest fantasy"
I was so sure you'd mention WoT here 😂
Anyway, I agree that subgenres don't really matter and there's way too much unneccessary debate!
If you have read Malazan, please disregard the following text, but it is just one explanation to why it would be the highest most epicest fantasy :)
Even though I am a fan of both, WoT can't even compare to Malazan in this regard. Apart from having a world that is probably the size of earth where most of the continents are explored in the books, it also has innumerous planes making it even larger. That was size wise... Time wise, it speaks of a history of more than 300 000 years and the story even follows some characters that has been around for all that time. During this time there has been civilisation after civilisation rising and falling, and many of them playing a part in the story.
Characters, Malazan doesn't follow a set of characters as much as a set of conflicts with one over arching conflict, meaning that is has a huge number of characters that you follow. I am quite sure that there are many more point of views in Malazan than WoT but I can't swear it.
So yeah... It is a pretty big series ^^
@@pontuslindheohlsson2184 Malazan is my favorite series, so yes, I know how epic it is :)
My comment was based on the fact that WoT is Daniel's favorite and he usually mentions it all the time :)
@@beatrice5043 Glad to hear it :) I am rereading the books now, just got my heart crushed once more by the Chain of Dogs...
Daniel has talked about Malazans insane scope in a couple of videos and he tends to be neutral in that kind of questions.
I've always internally, probably even unconsciously until this video made me think about it, considered high fantasy to simply be any series that had classic DnD races like elves, dwarves, etc in it. Likewise I've always internally considered low-fantasy to simply be any fantasy setting where magic is related to something like 5% or less of the pagetime and didn't have any of the aforementioned fantasy races in it. Cool to learn more of the nuances.
Military Fantasy: Temeraire! (which is also dragon fantasy)
Also, you should read/review the Temeraire series!
Also, watch an anime called Tanya the Evil!
I'm writing my own book and listening to this I'm realizing mine fits a few different genres:
Portal, Urban/Low and Epic/High fantasy.
Now looking at my list it's semi obvious why and how both urban and epic can be in the same book... I'll also elaborate before somebody complains or asks... there's two different POVs which is why I'm deeming it appropriate to place them in those genres.
Whether or not when it's published it falls into any of these categories is totally not up to me. If it doesn't fit them exactly... well... too bad... I'm absolutely adopting them for when I explain my book to save my breath lol.
Thank you Daniel for explaining the genres! I wasn't entirely aware some of these genres existed, will you be making another video similar to it? Also because of your videos I have several books/series I want to read!
I don't have a very good memory of all the books I've read (or a good memory in general lol) however I'll add to some of the suggestions with a few that came to mind during this video.
One urban fantasy is the Mercy Thompson series and another is the Alpha and Omega series both by Patricia Briggs.
Mercy is a half Native American coyote shifter (or skinwalker as she calls herself) who always happens to find herself in trouble without even wanting to or trying to get into it. There's werewolves, vampires and even fae in the story as it continues. As the story goes on we learn a lot about Briggs' universe and what happens in it and how that effects both the supernatural creatures and the humans.
(My favorite character is a werewolf name Ben)
Alpha and Omega is about two werewolves, Charlies and Anna, in the same universe as Mercy (both of whom know her) they're mates and they solve mysteries of the supernatural world! Bringing justice to it and working on the political side of things. The story of their bookish universe slowly unfolds as both book series progresses.
There IS an order I recommend reading these series in. Read them together as one big story! If you don't some thing's may not make sense; especially in the Alpha and Omega series.
(My fave character from THESE books is Asil)
Another series which fits urban fantasy along with vampires is the Sookie Stackhouse novels by Charlaine Harris.
Some people might know that story loosely from the first couple of seasons of TrueBlood however the show is barely an adaptation and the books are AMAZING!
It's about a waitress who works at a bar in Louisiana who happens to read minds. One night she meets a vampire in her little home town named Bill. The vampires have come out to the public and they are fighting to be recognized as people too. We follow Sookie as she unlocks secrets of her past, her powers and delve deeper into the world of the supernatural that Harris has created.
(My fave character so far has to be Eric)
If anyone has read these books and made it to the end of my probably very long comment and knows any of these characters then you, my friend, are awesome!
What is the story of your book about?
@@lux2625 A teen boy goes missing. His best friend, a wolf shifter, takes it upon herself to find him. Instead she finds a seelie elven prince in hiding. When they're attacked by guards of his kingdom, sent to bring him home, they accidentally get teleported to his world just off the coast of the unseelie realm.
Meanwhile, her best friend is being tortured for something he doesn't know he can do, her brother is going crazy trying to find her and the supernatural detective assigned to her case grows more and more confused and realizes that there's a long string of missing persons who disappeared in similar ways all around the world but nobody can figure out why fae are kidnapping humans after several hundred years of relative peace.
@@OmegaTheSillyWolf Nice, do you have a link to read it ?
@@lux2625 No, I hope to publish it once it's finished. So far I have about half of it done T . T I'm mostly just editing and revising it so most of it is just padding it out with details and explanations. The important parts are already down, thankfully lol
@@OmegaTheSillyWolf Oh good luck with that. Part writing is a lot of rewriting xD let me know when you finish releasing it to the market, I'll take a look at it.
Dark fantasy doesn’t have to explore the dark side of the human mind. It’s a mix of horror and fantasy.
The best type of fantasy
Alternate History: Temeraire by Naomi Novik (Napeoleonic wars with Dragons? YES!)
Military Fantasy: (also Temeraire) but Black Company by Glen Cook
My favorite comedic fantasy is probably the Xanth books by Piers Anthony. I would love to see you review it though you might want to limit it to the first three books since there are more than three dozen.
I loved the books as well when I was younger, but 21st century audiences would likely deem them extremely "problematic." Every time Piers Anthony's name comes up on /r/fantasy that I've seen accusations of him being essentially a P to the E to the D to the O soon follow. I personally don't believe this, but I do think the series went rapidly downhill after about the sixth book.
@@thelasthandbook6704 I wasn't aware of the problematic issue, but I agree the series went downhill. The first three are very good though.
Thank you so much for this summary! ^_^ I especially appreciate your explanation of the Dark Fantasy sub genre since I focus on it in my own writing 😊💙
Your leaving out Mark Twain. Try short stories "Letters from the earth,and the Great Dark. Epic Sarcastic Fantasy.
I have a question about one of my favorite book series, The Pillars of Reality (and the 2 other series in that universe).
Brief description: same universe as earth is in but in the future. There's use of both technology and magic (but only by the 2 respective guilds).
Technology: best I can say is like in a Civ game when you research pots and then recieve tanks. Basically they have some steam technologies (boilers and engines are the main of such) but not beyond what we have accomplished here on Earth. They also have guns (revolvers and rifles). Electricity is a thing (lights, radios called "far talkers", and some few CADs or Calculating and Analisys Devices).
Steam punk fantasy, perhaps?
I had always been taught that "high" "middle" or "low" fantasy was more about how the characters in the setting interact with magic. You could even have high fantasy stories in low fantasy settings for example, something like LotR would qualify as while the characters have magic done to them on a semiregular basis magical abilities within the setting are relatively rare, uncommon parts of every day life, compare to something like your average D&D setting where every town might have a cleric, sometimes even one strong enough to raise the dead if you've got enough spending money.
I'm not using this as an argument to imply you're wrong of course, it's just what the concept of high fantasy vs low fantasy was explicitly taught to me as when I was first getting into the genre 'cause I hadn't seen it mentioned. I've got no idea if this is a common interpretation or usage of those meanings, but it's how it was initially discussed with me so *shrug.*
The Buried Giant is an Arthurian fantasy from five years ago that was a fairly big release, though marketed more as general fiction.
Hey Daniel, just a quick question at 0:37 that image of the lady lying down, who is the artist behind that? I know that John William Waterhouse has done similar paintings, but I've never seen it before. Thank you so much, and keep up the great work✊🏾❤️
Daniel! What are some of your favorite fantasy video games? Miyazaki’s dark souls games are my all time favorite. The game design is masterful. The world building and lore is up there with some of the greatest fantasy novels. It’s also a story that only works in the video game medium, unlike a lot of games.
The Temeraire books are also a good alternative history fantasy
Orson Scott Card's "The Tales of Alvin Maker" is a great representation of Historical Fantasy. It juggles a plethora of historical figures while weaving in fantastical elements to make a great overall series.
Dark fantasy just means a gloomy fictional world with low magic and the fantastical. Song of ice and fire is a clear dark fantasy.
Have to say i'm disappointed. Most of these aren't "sub-genres" as much as keyword one uses to search of one.
I've never seen dark fantasy used to describe those types of stories and can't find anything supporting it.
@@CarrotConsumer tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DarkFantasy
I also always imagined dark fantasy as well, dark fantasy world, where things generally suck more than they don't. Unlike heroic fantasy, where the ending is always good. Dark Fantasy, high fantasy, low fantasy and Science Fantasy are the only ones I'd consider "Sub-genres" as a lot of these "Sub-genres" aren't genres, but just plot heavy on that particular area. Like, what is vampire fantasy. Vampires can exist in a high fantasy, low fantasy and a dark fantasy world. That's the incorrect usage of "Sub-genre".
For Dark Tower I personally recommend HP Lovecraft the most, especially if you like cosmic horror and short stories. And yes, most of his work is interconnected
If you want to read some hilarious absurdism fantasy, Id recommend the Zamonia books by Walter Moers. One of the funniest and most creative stuff Ive ever read.
If you like some Discworld books, I think the way to go is figure out which set of characters and themes you like, and read books about those.
To me, Vimes and the Night Watch are the best, but Death and his granddaughter Susan are right up there as well. And Rincewind. And Lord Patrician Vetinari. And, well, everyone else.
"The ones that take a minute to load"
_laughs in brown bess three-round-per-minute rate of fire_
Also I though high fantasy was fantasy with a high "fantasy" content; magic, made up worlds and cultures, fantasy creatures, et cetera, and epic fantasy was fantasy where the story is on a large scale and could effect the whole world. Something could be both high fantasy and epic fantasy, like, say, the first Mistborn trilogy, but something else could be high fantasy but not epic fantasy, like the Wax and Wayne books from the same world.
A tale of the Kin series by Douglas Hulick (gas light?) and The Demon Cycle by Peter V Brett (many, many subcatagories!) are wonderful reads.
Also, thanks to your recommendations I'm now two books into The Witcher... can't believe it took so long for me to get around to this!! Amazing.
Love the video 👏 really enjoy the kinda lecture-style informative videos. Educate our nerddom Daniel 🤓
Wow, feeling called out on medieval fantasy.
On a serious note, fun guide! I personally read books and write ttrpg campaigns that are fantasy for the escapist sense to "live" in a much happier world where you can ignore the dark underbelly.
From what I've gathered, a campaign I'm currently trying to make is a High Medieval, Swords-and-Sorcery/Heroic Fantasy, with some (I think it's) Dark Fantasy if the players decide to explore the corrupted and morally bankrupt side of the world that the average person doesn't get to see.
Then of course, depending on players, there may be added genres like Coming of Age and Court Intrigue.
Pretty generic, I know, but can't help that's what I like.
a long time ago i heard different explanation of high and low fantasy and to be honest i like it a lot more, but it contradicts, or more like doesnt match the one explained here, at all.
it stated that high fantasy, is a fantasy that has "a lot of magic" in the world, meaning it has wizards, spells, magical creatures and so on. basically like almost every fantasy element. so something like Warcraft, Eragorn, things like that, that are full of magic.
while low fantasy is a fantasy that has very little magical elements in it. like, i don't know, Game of Thrones (the show, not the books, in the books there are more magical elements) it has very few magical elements in it. it has some kind of zombies, some dragons, and basically that's it. and magic is so rare that most people actually think it's a legend. or something like Dracula. it has fantasy element, but beside vampires and their influence there is not much more fantasy elements there.
i like this classification a lot more, it also fit the words a lot more - high means a lot of magic; low means almost no magic. i don't get why a fantasy that is just set in our world would be called "low". and on the other side, if your story is set in a different world but has no magic in it other than let say some fantastic race, like trolls, why would it be called "high fantasy". it makes no sense for me.
all other names have some merit to them. history - it involves history; dark - it involves dark themes; YA - it involves and is targeted at YA. and so on. and suddenly - low, it means it's set on our planet... high it means it's not set on our planet... what is the connection
I've seen this definition a lot and although it is objectively not what those terms mean I can appreciate the appeal of the idea there would be a way of describing the prevalence magical elements in a world it just isn't what those terms mean in the context
@@raddude585 yeah, i'm not saying it's the correct definition or something. it's technically just a name, whoever "invented" the term can name it however they want.
i'm just saying that those terms as in their original explanation are poorly chosen in my opinion. the terms low and high, which are usually used to describe intensity of some sort, here are used more like location describers, and have nothing to do with any kind of intensity. i'm sure there are way more appropriate names for a fantasy that takes place in a different world.
and i understand why the confusion about number of books comes from. just high, as an adjective doesnt make much sense in what it really is describing.
@@IcoKirov Yeah i mean any term is arbitrary at the end of the day
thank you a lot for this video! it really helps as a beginner to select some authors and books to start with, as the fantasy landscape is so confusing when you haven't read anything
the moment he didn‘t mention Eragon at Dragon Fantasy killed me😢
Spook's Apprentice aka The Wardstone Chronicles by Joesph Delaney is YA Horror Fantasy. I love it because its YA fantasy that doesn't focus on a dystopia, romance, and/or vampires/werewolves.
7 more days for new Joe Abercrombie 🤺🤺💀
Thank you! Now I know that one of the books I'm writing is Comtemporary-Coming of Age-Court Intrigue-Fable-Low-Military-YA-Series fantasy.
But the other one is even more complicated, it starts out as Gaslamp-Low-Coming of Age-Fable-Heroic-Romantic-Swashbuckling-YA-Series fantasy, but as the story progresses it will rather be Low-Heroic-Romantic-Swashbuckling-YA-Series fantasy, since the main characters age up and so does the world around them, so the Coming of Age and Gaslamp elements kinda gets lost. And there will be a prequel as well (because of course there has to be), which is rather Gaslamp-Low-Coming of Age-Dark-Swashbuckling-somewhat Assassin-YA-Series fantasy, except that it's not fantasy yet since the protagonist is not aware of magic even existing, let alone his own skills.😂😂😂😂😂 So yeah, frankly I don't give a fork about these rules, I just write what I want in order to entertain myself, and maybe even the readers. If these ever get published anywhere. This isn't my job, just one of my hobbies like hiking or archery.
Mr. Norell and Jonathan Strange is also a Victorian Fantasy.
It's amazing too.
Not to be nitpicky, but it takes place during the Regency period, not the Victorian period. George III is still king in the novel and is actually a portrayed character.
You know, if people did this to Asian or African history, it'd be considered racist
Interesting take on the High/Epic fantasy genre description. I've always used Epic, High, Low, Dark, Horror, as descriptors of the tone of the story instead of the worldbuilding in itself. For exemple, Song of Ice and Fire is an original world but wouldn't qualify as epic fantasy because the characters are not heroes and the magic system is soft and not prevalent to the story told. As a contrast, Harry Potter takes place on a somewhat modern Earth but magic is so integral to the story that we couldn't imagine calling it Low Fantasy.
Nice video overall, keep up the excellent work!!
Is that Elliot Brooks' Peace and Turmoil I see in the background? 🤩
Speaking of political fantasy... (or so I've been told)
Another sub-genre (or genre all on its own) of Fantasy worth checking out is Sword and Sorcery. It is, in many ways, the foundation of a lot of fantasy stories today have roots in. It does have overlaps (or perhaps anticipations) of low fantasy, dark fantasy, grimdark fantasy, and smatterings of heroic and quest (and even urban) fantasy depending on the stories. Usually at the protagonists of the stories are martial combatants who are usually driven by basic needs or emotions like money, revenge, survival, etc. and their main enemies are either other fighters or magic-users, and magic in Sword and Sorcery is dangerous and scary whether those who use it are "good" or evil (and most wizards in these stories tend to fall into the latter due to magic's corrupting, maddening nature). These stories also seem to comment on the decadence that can be caused by civilization, thus most of the protagonists are loners most of the time who refuse to accept the confines of high society and are more comfortable giving themselves over to the primal attitudes of hardened survivalists. The best stories to read from this genre are anything by Robert E. Howard (namely Conan, Kull, Solomon Kane, Bran Mak Morn, etc.) and Michael Moorcock's Eternal Champion series (for that I'd recommend Elric and Corum). Also, for Howard, avoid any anthology or "novel" that has been written or edited by L. Sprague de Camp.
High Fantasy was always the genre where the story takes place in a world populated by elves and dwarves and ogres, where magic is commonplace
Epic Fantasy has always been told with an emphasis on more mundane conflicts as the main focus. There may be magic or magical creatures but bulk of the tale concerns men and/or women achieving legendary stature.
Your 'Portal Fantasy' is what we called 'There and Back'. The protagonist leaves the comfort of home, willingly or not, and has to find their way home again. It's broader in scope because it also entails 'nonportal' means. 'The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant' is a great example as the eponymous protagonist is transported to 'the Land' by means that involve injury and his leprosy, and he is held there by his doubts (He's a real Doubting Thomas). Also it could mean a 'Heroes Quest' like in 'the Hobbit' or LOTR.
'Sword and Sorcery' is still viable as a Fantasy Genre because while it may seem generic it is tied directly to tales about Pre-History worlds with the typical protagonist is a Barbarian/Swordsman surviving in a hostile world where there are ferocious beasts, ancient races and dark primordial magicks. You know, Conan, Brak, Thongor, Fahrd and the Grey Mouser, King Kull, Suar Peial, and Elric/Corum/Erekose/Daker (the Eternal Champion)
Guy Gavriel Kay's Fionavar Tapestry is an amazing portal fantasy work and surprisingly has Arthurian elements. I think that's one of the best series I have ever read in any genre and it's only a trilogy so that's a bonus if you don't want to read millions of words to get to the end.