Everytime you told sylv to leave and soak, your team just inted 4v4 on obj or solo somewhere on the map. Against vikings you should force 5v4. Picking valeera was kinda sus too and blaming the sylv pick for not having camp clear is wild, when cassia and valeera got locked (so no wave clear either and a ragnaros wouldn't have solved your problem, cus then you are just weaker in team fights). Not picking taunt when enemy doesn't have cleanse, is kinda troll too. Good luck next season!
Thanks for the interest and comment! I actually don't think there's any way to force a 5v4 on Alterac against a Medivh - cause they will just portal away. I think the 5v4 can be a good option on maps where there are some early camps to invade with a Dehaka, for example. Where you'll still get the camp and decent tempo even if their 4man escapes. I prefer beating Vikings with 1-2 pushers (Illidan/Greymane/Falstad/Sylvanas) and having a strong 3-man for brawling like Valla or Q Cassia. Your pushers will get more done than the enemy 4man into your 3man. But so many things went wrong in this game and draft. I didn't go Q stacks, Sylv didn't push or soak. Valeera can't push or even clear waves or camps. Would have really like Ragnaros actually. He does the camp in 26s lvl 4 and Lava Wave really counters Vikings too. Can you elaborate on the Taunt? I will check the matchups vs Stukov and Medivh individually, because I would not think Taunt works against a Medivh. Medivh shield is better than a cleanse in this regard, but perhaps the Taunt can act as portal control and prevent a target from running away.
I checked that Decimate is by far the most succesful ult vs Stukov in competitive games despite no cleanse. But it's close to 50/50 vs Medivh. The statstick of Decimate is honestly just often a better choice than Taunt - especially in today's world where teams are less coordinated on CC. Decimate and Bile on Stitches are some of the most underrated ults in competitive if you look at the stats. Good luck to you guys too next season!
@@Razhag_Hots Sylv has top soak in your team and also got walls, some dmg onto the forts, but she will never have as much soak as the vikings. Saying she didnt soak or push is more like a cover for the other many mistakes you guys made. But looking at the valeera soak being basically equal with the soak of garrosh, the soaking part wasnt on sylv. I hope you see the flow in the logic. For the draft, you picked 4 heroes who suck at wave and camp clearing, is a huge problem. And forcing sylv to split instead of valeera is just stupid, especially since valeera is dogshit before 16. Picking rag would have caused you not winning any 5v4s. He would have been another punching bag to chain for the ktz with no escape. I like how you state that dealing with vikings with split pushers great. I absolutely agree with it. The only problem is that the draft got fucked up and you got a full teamfight comp with lack of wave clear, so this option is out of the window immediately. So what is the other thing you should do vs vikings? Fighting 5v4s which all have been won in that game.... (I think it would have been easy to force fights against them, since your team managed to do that every time when sylv was splitting, and managed to sacrifice at least 1 person in 4v4s.) You said, to not fight them, to not stack the ktz, still you managed to get soo many losing 4v4s. Literally almost at the beginning sylv split to top lane, and you guys just inted 4v4 while they also got a wall. Ktz in 4men pushing is much faster than sylv. After that you all randomly rotated to top to sylv for some reason, while the enemy was already mid. They have a medivh, they have a rotational advantage no matter what you do, they gonna be there. Clearly during the game you guys didn't realize that you are never going to be winning 4v4s, if sylv is not there, even after a lot of dying. You start fighting 5v4 on 1st objective, to protect it. You tell sylv to go split, she leaves and seconds after 2 of you die. I guess you didn't get it, that having no wave clear and losing this objective gonna suck a lot more, than trying for a 5v4 equal lvl fight for objective and losing 2 waves and maybe half a gate on top. Suprise, suprise after getting lvl 10 sylv rotates, and you wipe the floor with their asses in a 5v4 equal talent tier fight. Also at min 13, 5v4 on boss, you win again, equal talent tier. Of course valeera manages to die to olaf, and after that instead of leaving the team keeps pushing and dies. Following calls is good, but following bad calls repeatedly is not fine. It's funny how your teammate is ranting Hasu and the others that they were so bad. I dont know, if you guys watched their stream or the video made of the game, they were completely just having fun, memeing laughing their asses off, not taking it any serious, while you were sweating hard. lmao Sorry for this long rant, I don't mean to insult you, but I just couldn't stand that many of you were just flaming sylv 'for not macroing' when she was the only one trying to win the game. I hope you show this comment to all of your teammates in the video and have a chat. I watch some of your videos, and few of them are quite interesting. Keep it up.
@@Razhag_Hots Yea you can look at it statwise, but decimate is weak until 20. You dont have much cc in this team without it. Someone gets thrown, anduin root maybe lb (but I havent really seen anduin doing that many great ones). They get a protected and a portal and they leave. With taunt, you have a much bigger window to do dmg and kill them. Bile is a good one, when they have lot of saves or when you dont have walls after 10 yeaaa. Looking at stats wont help mostly imo. You can look at a high gm's bad hero's winrate, like 30-40%. I guarantee that they would still clap 95% of the players. Looking for garrosh vs medivh or garrosh vs stukov winrates on talents wont help that much mostly. Cus maybe in that game they had also and anduin with medivh or an uther, yrel or varian with the stukov. Theres soo much variety in the games and nowadays the pool for the 'pro' games is not that big either. Edit: I disagree with protected being better than unstopable in that case, unless all of you just overlap every cc on the enemy at the same time. Otherwise protected is only gonna last 1.5 seconds and you will cc longer.
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Everytime you told sylv to leave and soak, your team just inted 4v4 on obj or solo somewhere on the map. Against vikings you should force 5v4. Picking valeera was kinda sus too and blaming the sylv pick for not having camp clear is wild, when cassia and valeera got locked (so no wave clear either and a ragnaros wouldn't have solved your problem, cus then you are just weaker in team fights). Not picking taunt when enemy doesn't have cleanse, is kinda troll too.
Good luck next season!
Thanks for the interest and comment! I actually don't think there's any way to force a 5v4 on Alterac against a Medivh - cause they will just portal away. I think the 5v4 can be a good option on maps where there are some early camps to invade with a Dehaka, for example. Where you'll still get the camp and decent tempo even if their 4man escapes.
I prefer beating Vikings with 1-2 pushers (Illidan/Greymane/Falstad/Sylvanas) and having a strong 3-man for brawling like Valla or Q Cassia. Your pushers will get more done than the enemy 4man into your 3man. But so many things went wrong in this game and draft. I didn't go Q stacks, Sylv didn't push or soak. Valeera can't push or even clear waves or camps. Would have really like Ragnaros actually. He does the camp in 26s lvl 4 and Lava Wave really counters Vikings too.
Can you elaborate on the Taunt? I will check the matchups vs Stukov and Medivh individually, because I would not think Taunt works against a Medivh. Medivh shield is better than a cleanse in this regard, but perhaps the Taunt can act as portal control and prevent a target from running away.
I checked that Decimate is by far the most succesful ult vs Stukov in competitive games despite no cleanse. But it's close to 50/50 vs Medivh.
The statstick of Decimate is honestly just often a better choice than Taunt - especially in today's world where teams are less coordinated on CC.
Decimate and Bile on Stitches are some of the most underrated ults in competitive if you look at the stats.
Good luck to you guys too next season!
@@Razhag_Hots
Sylv has top soak in your team and also got walls, some dmg onto the forts, but she will never have as much soak as the vikings. Saying she didnt soak or push is more like a cover for the other many mistakes you guys made. But looking at the valeera soak being basically equal with the soak of garrosh, the soaking part wasnt on sylv. I hope you see the flow in the logic.
For the draft, you picked 4 heroes who suck at wave and camp clearing, is a huge problem. And forcing sylv to split instead of valeera is just stupid, especially since valeera is dogshit before 16. Picking rag would have caused you not winning any 5v4s. He would have been another punching bag to chain for the ktz with no escape.
I like how you state that dealing with vikings with split pushers great. I absolutely agree with it. The only problem is that the draft got fucked up and you got a full teamfight comp with lack of wave clear, so this option is out of the window immediately. So what is the other thing you should do vs vikings? Fighting 5v4s which all have been won in that game....
(I think it would have been easy to force fights against them, since your team managed to do that every time when sylv was splitting, and managed to sacrifice at least 1 person in 4v4s.) You said, to not fight them, to not stack the ktz, still you managed to get soo many losing 4v4s.
Literally almost at the beginning sylv split to top lane, and you guys just inted 4v4 while they also got a wall. Ktz in 4men pushing is much faster than sylv. After that you all randomly rotated to top to sylv for some reason, while the enemy was already mid. They have a medivh, they have a rotational advantage no matter what you do, they gonna be there.
Clearly during the game you guys didn't realize that you are never going to be winning 4v4s, if sylv is not there, even after a lot of dying. You start fighting 5v4 on 1st objective, to protect it. You tell sylv to go split, she leaves and seconds after 2 of you die.
I guess you didn't get it, that having no wave clear and losing this objective gonna suck a lot more, than trying for a 5v4 equal lvl fight for objective and losing 2 waves and maybe half a gate on top.
Suprise, suprise after getting lvl 10 sylv rotates, and you wipe the floor with their asses in a 5v4 equal talent tier fight. Also at min 13, 5v4 on boss, you win again, equal talent tier. Of course valeera manages to die to olaf, and after that instead of leaving the team keeps pushing and dies.
Following calls is good, but following bad calls repeatedly is not fine.
It's funny how your teammate is ranting Hasu and the others that they were so bad. I dont know, if you guys watched their stream or the video made of the game, they were completely just having fun, memeing laughing their asses off, not taking it any serious, while you were sweating hard. lmao
Sorry for this long rant, I don't mean to insult you, but I just couldn't stand that many of you were just flaming sylv 'for not macroing' when she was the only one trying to win the game.
I hope you show this comment to all of your teammates in the video and have a chat.
I watch some of your videos, and few of them are quite interesting. Keep it up.
@@Razhag_Hots Yea you can look at it statwise, but decimate is weak until 20. You dont have much cc in this team without it. Someone gets thrown, anduin root maybe lb (but I havent really seen anduin doing that many great ones). They get a protected and a portal and they leave. With taunt, you have a much bigger window to do dmg and kill them.
Bile is a good one, when they have lot of saves or when you dont have walls after 10 yeaaa.
Looking at stats wont help mostly imo. You can look at a high gm's bad hero's winrate, like 30-40%. I guarantee that they would still clap 95% of the players.
Looking for garrosh vs medivh or garrosh vs stukov winrates on talents wont help that much mostly. Cus maybe in that game they had also and anduin with medivh or an uther, yrel or varian with the stukov. Theres soo much variety in the games and nowadays the pool for the 'pro' games is not that big either.
Edit: I disagree with protected being better than unstopable in that case, unless all of you just overlap every cc on the enemy at the same time. Otherwise protected is only gonna last 1.5 seconds and you will cc longer.